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Narutopedia

Zero2001

571 Edits since joining this wiki
September 7, 2008
Revision as of 07:32, April 1, 2009 by Jacce (Talk | contribs)

| User:Zero2001

Zero2001, we don't use videos on the wiki. We're an encyclopedia, not a fansource, videos don't add much to articles. It's also poor style to put YouTube videos into articles. They have major copyright issues, so other than being of questionable legality (most videos are fansubs or pirated), they are also unreliably hosted in a way that is likely to leave the wiki with a dead video sometime in the future. The wiki is supposed to be handled in a way that in 5 years or so, we don't need to go back and rewrite half of it because people used 'current' to much, or used unreliable links which ended up dying shortly after they were added. ~NOTASTAFF Daniel Friesen (DanTMan, Nadir Seen Fire) (talk) current discussion Oct 26, 2008 @ 10:03 (UTC)

Also, could you please fix your signature. Currently it is falsely linking to User:Zero, basically falsely identifying you as another user which would cause most people to try to reply to them, instead of you. ~NOTASTAFF Daniel Friesen (DanTMan, Nadir Seen Fire) (talk) current discussion Oct 26, 2008 @ 10:04 (UTC)

Please do not assume agreement if someone does not respond. It is very rude as no-one on the wiki is under the obligation to respond, or more importantly, required to report daily to the wiki.

As for images, please take a look over Project:Image policy. Do understand that fair use tagged images will always be preferred over those without tagging. So if you're trying to replace manga images (many of which are tagged), with anime images, then make sure that you understand fair use tagging and tag your images properly. If you don't do that, then bout 90% of the images you replace manga images with will be undone. ~NOTASTAFF Daniel Friesen (DanTMan, Nadir Seen Fire) (talk) current discussion Dec 6, 2008 @ 22:00 (UTC)

NavTemplates

By nav-templates, are you talking about the nav boxes seen at the bottom of pages, like those used on Wikipedia, wikipedia:Naruto#collapsibleTable3?

To be quite honest, I hate those. I find that manually generated lists like those are opposite of organized. They duplicate information, force you to update them when you shouldn't need to, and they're unnecessary. NavBoxes work for Wikipedia because it is a generic Encyclopedia. Because they handle just about every topic those nav boxes help to group relevant pages together. However, that is unnecessary on wiki like this. Here the entire wiki is about the same topic, there is no need to stick things like that at the bottom of pages, rather it's just unnecessary clutter.

IMHO, what makes a wiki organized, is a good category system (we're working on making this even better using SMW), and a good set of general pages (Episodes, Jutsu, Characters, ...) which are linked to from the main page and perhaps sidebar, and point readers to the more useful categorization or list being setup.

Right now I'm waiting on Wikia to install Semantic Forums so I can fix up and roll out a new set of infoboxes for Characters, Jutsus, and perhaps even Episodes. All these infoboxes will be easily editable by anyone, won't clutter up articles like they currently do, and they will nicely inject annotations into articles. Once that is done, things like the lists of who can use what Jutsu, global lists of Ninjutsu, Genjutsu, Kinjutsu, etc... Character lists, and so on. Can all be automatically generated. This means that content only needs to be worked on in one place, and the system will handle all organization of that data. In fact, some real nice queries can even be searched for. ~NOTASTAFF Daniel Friesen (DanTMan, Nadir Seen Fire) (talk) Dec 14, 2008 @ 09:56 (UTC)

Those nav templates you show me look no different than those on Wikipedia. It's the exact same concept.

You do realize that there are probably already a thousand or so jutsu? Creating a nav box template for Jutsu would be absolutely insane. As for related jutsu, we already have good see also sections on relevant jutsu, there is absolutely no need for a template.

As for show/hide... Take a look at MediaWiki:Common.js and MediaWiki:Common.css. The Narutopedia inherits Wikia ACG's vast JS, CSS, and Template repository. Show/Hide has existed for quite some time, and I've even improved it over the original from WP. On top of that there are scripts for Modifying portlets (that was from back in Monobook). I created some code for adding a show/hide to the edittools. We have tabview and if we wanted could create tabbed content, not just simple show/hide stuff. On top of that there's the Box css system which makes it possible to use a simple class line to specify just about any possible css style you could need in a template, without verbosely specifying any of the coloring or other formatting junk inside of the template. And then there is the entire repo of synced templates. They are used over all of Wikia acg, some provide compatibility with Wikipedia, and many of them are rewrites which combine the tasks of a half dozen redundant WP templates into a single one with even more features. (ie: WP has Tl, Tlp, Tlx, ... We just have Tlx that does the job of all of them. Same for FS which handles GPL, GFDL, FAL, Artistic-2, ... And CC which handles more CreativeCommons licenses than the redundant variations you can find on WP and Commons). And then there is the iBox system.

We don't need navboxes. Infoboxes are good enough. They provide a good set of information, with SF installed they will be easy to edit, and will annotate the page with enough data that we can create whatever kind of navigation we need.

NavTemplates are an outdated technique for organization which come from Wikipedia. WP is the worst place to look for good organization techniques, because of the concern of performance WP has a lot of unnecessary duplication and redundancy. The categorization is a mess because the model is to simplistic and as a result people start creating non-atomic categories. NavTemplates are just another one of WP's techniques involving content duplication.

Please don't just unfoundedly say that old techniques are far better than an attempt at innovating organization. ~NOTASTAFF Daniel Friesen (DanTMan, Nadir Seen Fire) (talk) Dec 14, 2008 @ 12:16 (UTC)

Reply

Not as much as at Avatarwiki, I started watching Naruto during the big hiatus between Earth and Fire. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 18:53, 17 January 2009 (UTC)

Signature

  1. Yes the wiki is not Wikipedia, we do not follow all the same policies and a policy's existence on WP does not imply existence here. However, we do use Wikipedia rationales as aids in creating our own policies, and one of the policies we have taken from Wikipedia is the signature policy. Signatures with images give comments by a user undue prominence and disrupt line hight in talkpages.
  2. Wikia has no such rule. Wikia does not employ global rules like that, something like that would be contrary to the fact that Wikia wiki are controlled by the community.
  3. Thats a poorly reasoned statement, MediaWiki is what controls valid markup in signatures, it makes no restrictions in them other than length and substing templates. What is actually allowed in a signature is controlled by a wiki's policy. To make your statement true Wikia would have to go and hack core MediaWiki to fit a community's policy.

No other user has been allowed to upload an image for personal use. In fact other users have tried uploading signature images and they have been uniformly deleted. Personal user content has never helped the Narutopedia, afact it's caused quite a bit of trouble for the wiki, so the community has prohibited it. Even my userpage contains nothing but generic freely licensed images from commons and the like. ~NOTASTAFF Daniel Friesen (DanTMan, Nadir Seen Fire) (talk) Jan 22, 2009 @ 17:31 (UTC)

Because those wiki don't have a policy against signature images, the Narutopedia does. Each and every wiki on Wikia comes up with it's own policies. Some adopt some policies, and others adopt other policies. The Narutopedia happens to be one that has had issues with users abusing the wiki with personal stuff far to often, so it's adopted a number of policies against most types of non-wiki-related content. (No personal images; No fan content; Userpages without a point (don't relate the user as an editor) or from non-contributors get deleted; Forums and talkpages are not to be use for asking or starting discussions not related to the wiki; etc...) ~NOTASTAFF Daniel Friesen (DanTMan, Nadir Seen Fire) (talk) Jan 22, 2009 @ 17:40 (UTC)

Categories

I'm gonna assume you've spoken to Dantman about adding all those categories to things. Cause...if the past is any indication, he is just gonna delete the lot of them. That being said I have class in about 30 minutes (as of writing this) so I would suggest stopping this now and asking him if you hadn't.--TheUltimate3 15:16, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

Thats a similar comment to the Categories made for the different elements. He deleted all of them and instead used that Classification thing. I predict these will all follow a similar fate. Because of that I ask you do not add any more of these categories until everyone is certain. (And F.Y.I this will do nothing with duplications. When people load stuff, they don't bother to look to see if its on the site or not, they just throw it in find the article and if it's already there they just remove the first one and add theirs in.)--TheUltimate3 15:31, 3 February 2009 (UTC)
Look at the bottom of Wind Release: Rasengan, you'll see the "Facts" thing, with Jutsu Classification: Ninjutsu and Jutsu Type: Wind Release. That is the classification.--TheUltimate3 17:11, 3 February 2009 (UTC)
And that is something you gotta take with Dantman. I don't make the rules I just enforce them as Dantman sees them.--TheUltimate3 20:49, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

Category:Naruto Uzumaki

Zero2001, the Naruto Uzumaki category was not useful, we already have a method of tagging. Could you go and modify the pages you added to the category to use:

{{Image tags}}
{{Image character tag|Naruto Uzumaki}}

It can be put at the top below the == Summary == header. ~NOTASTAFF Daniel Friesen (DanTMan, Nadir Seen Fire) (talk) Feb 3, 2009 @ 17:15 (UTC)

One could easily be created using the Ask page. Take a look at a character page on the Soul Eater Wiki like Kim Diehl. If you'll notice the annotations in the infobox, they have a search icon beside them which brings you to a page listing pages annotated with the same data. I could similarly do something that brings someone to an automatically generated Ask page that lists out images. It'll just take a little bit to check out how I need to format the query to make that possible.
In the future hopefully Wikia will install Semantic Drilldown. It's one of the missing bits that makes navigation of Semantic wiki work well. Ideally it should provide a gallery format for images. It'll also provide a very nice method of tracking down characters. ~NOTASTAFF Daniel Friesen (DanTMan, Nadir Seen Fire) (talk) Feb 4, 2009 @ 03:35 (UTC)
Also, even if we decide to use categories instead of properties it is still much better to make use of those templates, unlike with the categories if those templates are used we can easily modify the templates to switch to a new method without needing to edit hundreds of pages on the wiki. ~NOTASTAFF Daniel Friesen (DanTMan, Nadir Seen Fire) (talk) Feb 4, 2009 @ 03:46 (UTC)
I'm not going to design a bot because a user selfishly decides to use their own format instead of using templates which have already been built for the same purpose that a system already in place has been made.
Rome was not built in a day, and neither are wiki. Whether I make the changes now, tomorrow, or in half a month no-one on this wiki but you is going to care. I already told you that an Ask page can be made to list images, however the caches and job que makes experimentation on what is needed to be done slow so I need to wait a day before the Wiki updates the data so I can continue experiments. If that can't be made to work then the templates can be tweaked to use a category system.
We already have templates for tagging images, use them. Stop wasting time adding categories to be deleted when you could be tagging them with the right templates instead. Bots are not the answer when we already have a system that can easily modify itself to what fits. ~NOTASTAFF Daniel Friesen (DanTMan, Nadir Seen Fire) (talk) Feb 4, 2009 @ 08:46 (UTC)
The "system" I'm talking about is {{Image tags}} and {{Image character tag|...}}, specifically designed for tagging images with a list of what characters show up in them.
The "system" doesn't do anything but tag, nor should it care because it is template based unlike the method of just throwing category tags onto the page it can be modified to do anything we want just by editing the templates. Whether it ends up using semantics, categories, or both does not matter what matters is that the markup to add those semantics and/or categories is completely abstracted away from the user who is simply tagging the page and is handled completely by the templates.
Honestly, ideally in the distant future I'll find some way to tweak image pages to take advantage of Semantic Forms to help with the tagging. ~NOTASTAFF Daniel Friesen (DanTMan, Nadir Seen Fire) (talk) Feb 4, 2009 @ 08:57 (UTC)
I already told you. ABSTRACTION, if the only way to create a gallery is using categories then we'll modify the template to add categories. I can handle this myself, I have 2 years of this kind of experience plus I'm a MediaWiki developer. ~NOTASTAFF Daniel Friesen (DanTMan, Nadir Seen Fire) (talk) Feb 6, 2009 @ 04:38 (UTC)

GIF Images

Please see the Narutopedia:Image policy, your question is answered there. We delete all .gif images on sight. ~NOTASTAFF Daniel Friesen (DanTMan, Nadir Seen Fire) (talk) Feb 6, 2009 @ 04:38 (UTC)

Re: Plot: Naruto Shippuuden

I considerd that speculating. Talk to Dantman and see if he is ok with it. Jacce 06:52, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

But since it hasen't happen, how do you know it will happen? Something else might turn up. And what's the point, everything is already in the page. Jacce 07:22, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

So what is the point of having it. Everything is already said in the page. Jacce 07:32, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

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