Do you have any proof for your edits on Rasengan? Jacce 18:52, 26 February 2009 (UTC)
Are you saying wood isn't one of Tenzo's secondary elements? He uses the elements water and earth to create wood. Yellow and blue are colours. If you mix yellow and blue, it becomes green. Green is also a colour. In other words, saying wood isn't an element is like saying green isn't a colour. I hope that made sense.
Hakinu 15:14, 15 March 2009 (UTC)
I haven't had time checking your source myself, but I do remember hearing something like that. Though, in my opinion, it should be easy to notice (by looking at the page briefly; I usually use the character's info box for quickly picking up the most important properties of the character) that Tenzo is able to manipulate wood aswell. Hakinu 16:43, 16 March 2009 (UTC)(who doesn't know how to use the email user-function~ :|)
Re: Email - Wood Release
First of all, I'd like to ask you why you sent me an email, instead of just leaving a message on my talk page.
Anyway, on to the matter at hand: Wood Release. To put it bluntly, Wood Release is a chakra nature. Plain and simple, it has literally been called a nature in the manga and the third databook. However, it isn't a nature like Fire, Wind, Lightning, Earth, or Water. Those five are the basic natures. As Yamato pointed out in the manga, Wood isn't a basic nature. As it's composed of two basic natures, it is what I call an advanced nature. However, it is still a nature. --ShounenSuki (talk | contribs) 15:10, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
- First I'd like to clear up the terms you are using. The terms nature and element are the same. Nature is just closer to the actual term used in Japanese.
- Secondly, I don't understand why you think someone with enough training should be able to use an advanced nature, thus excluding the kekkei genkai-based elements as advanced natures. Why not define advanced nature as "a nature created by mixing two basic natures into a new one with the help of a kekkei genkai (or Tailed Beast)"? Also, there is absolutely no evidence that Rinnegan wielders can use advanced natures.
- That said, please sign your posts in the future. --ShounenSuki (talk | contribs) 17:21, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
- The Sage of the Six Paths being able to use all ninjutsu is hyperbole. Nothing has ever been said about him being able to use advanced natures like Wood or Ice, only that he (and Nagato) can use the all five basic chakra natures.
- Him being able to use the Nara clan's or Yamanaka family's techniques is speculation. Although he would have the physical capabilities (it's actually likely that many people in the Naruto world do), they likely weren't even invented yet back then. Also, what does it matter where these techniques come from? Don't tell me you think they were all invented by the Sage of the Six Paths? That's ridiculous to think. Why did you bring up speculation about the Rinnegan being capable of copying techniques, by the way?
- This discussion is going way off topic. It was about Wood (and Ice and Lava) being natures or not. I still haven't heard a convincing argument why you think they're not. --ShounenSuki (talk | contribs) 18:37, 19 March 2009 (UTC)
- Training only allows you to learn how to use multiple basic natures. Advanced natures (natures consisting of two mixed basic natures) require a kekkei genkai (or Tailed Beast). This is quite clearly explained by Yamato in chapter 316.
- In that same chapter, Yamato also says that Wood isn't a basic nature¹. Two frames later Kakashi explains that by simultaniously using the Earth and Water natures, a new Wood nature is created². After that, it is again said multiple times in the manga and third databook that Wood is a nature. As Wood (and Ice and Lava) are natures, they should be listed in the nature infobox.
- ¹ "To begin with, there us no such thing as basic nature called "Wood" " (「そもそも"木"なんていう基本性質はないんだよ」), Ch.316, p.6, fr.1
- ² "By simultaneously using the two nature transformations "Earth" and "Water", the new nature manipulation "Wood" is created" (「"土"と"水"の二つの"性質変化"を同時に行ない"木"の"性質変化"を新たに発生させる」), Ch.316, p.6, fr.3
- In other words, advanced natures are also considered chakra natures. They are literally called natures in the series.
- Now you seem to be having trouble seeing Wood Release as a kekkei genkai, probably because it was never inherited by the First Hokage's offspring. A kekkei genkai is defined as an ability requiring a certain genetic make-up. This would usually make it hereditary. However, in the case of Wood Release, the genetic make-up required was so unique that only the First had it. This might be because it relies on almost all of the First's DNA and having a child that's an almost 100% exact clone of you is practically impossible, or it might simply have been coincidental that none of his offspring got the right genes. I tend to go with the former option, as it better explains the situation, including Yamato.
- In any way, this doesn't mean that Wood release isn't hereditary. There is still a possibility that a descendent of the First Hokage again gets all the right genes and thus access to Wood Release. It is still a kekkei genkai in all respects.
- You also seem to be having trouble with the term "advanced nature". This is simply a term I created to more easily differentiate natures like Wood and Ice from the basic natures like Fire and Water. The term is not actually used in the series (the term "basic nature" is, by the way). --ShounenSuki (talk | contribs) 09:39, 20 March 2009 (UTC)
Re: No Rank or A Rank
- We dont speculate. If the rank is not stated it is put as no rank, until the data book comes out and shed sum light into the situation, till we have proof, of what rank it is, it will remain no rank..AlienGamer | Talk 14:39, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
Okay thanks for that.--SalmanH (talk) 14:44, 5 June 2009 (UTC)