Recommendations and Questions Edit
Hey, Omnibender. Wow, a lot of things happened while I was gone, huh? Has ShounenSuki taken a permanent break? :/ Anyway, as I've probably already said before, I've been... busier than usual. I'm up to date on recent chapters though.
I was just looking over this page and was satisfied to see how it's grown. A marvelous piece of work. In my overview, I came up with some questions and recommendations:
- For your "Proposed combinations table" and "Three elements" sections, you might want to add an extra column for "Effects" or "Functions" and throw the expected jutsu descriptions in there instead of in the "Reasoning" column. I believe it'll give the readers a better idea of what you mean by the nature (like how you answered questions in the talk page about what you imagine the natures would do), and maybe a few expected effects (Gas could be explosive, Star would be plasma-based, Sky is an energy of some sort, etc.). You might want to check out:
- If the following two have been decided, I think you should at least mark their spots to let people know that you're really just looking for the other two :P I understand that you were looking for the right term, but yeah.
- Water + Lightning + Yin = Umishiru's idea of malfunction?
- Earth + Lightning + Yin = Welding?
- My latest candidates for missing spots:
- I suggested Water + Lightning + Yang = Something like Fuwa Fuwa no Mi or Ope Ope no Mi (I suggested the second one some while ago). Interestingly, the latter fruit also appears to grant the user a seemingly unrelated electric shock-like ability. Overall, I don't think this nature touches too closely to Space-Time Ninjutsu. A space/force/telekinesis-sort of thing. I honestly this is the strongest connection yet.
- I did suggest Earth + Lightning + Yang = Friction, but I myself am not too sure about what it'd really be, exactly. I did write up a description some while ago, though.
- What about Death and Space Releases? (18.104.22.168 (talk) 22:23, April 2, 2013 (UTC))
- Glass Release would sorta control Glass between fluid and solid states to shape it, yes?
- You probably already answered this, but Gas is prohibited from generating certain gases such as Smoke?
- Is there a particular reason why Lightning is needed as energy for Implosion?
- I understand Rust is more related to decay, but does it completely rule out actual rust? Or does it rust metals and decay organic material accordingly?
- I get how petroleum and coal are different substances, but is that really necessary? Perhaps you could emphasize the difference in the "Effects" column :)
Yeah, ShounenSuki sort of gave up on the series. An effects/functions might work, though I think that would only be actually necessary in the releases whose effects aren't obvious by the name or the reasoning behind the formation. I've decided on the malfunctioning and welding ideas, but I still haven't found the translations. I've left a topic in ShounenSuki's talk page back when he was still active, but I never heard back from that topic. I'll probably ask Seelentau. I recall I wanted to know something about a specific way of writing welding, and something about terms for malfunction/disruption. I'll have to read up on those One Piece suggestions later, given I don't follow that series. I never gave it much thought about the fluid phase of glass. Maybe the glass could be spit either in the fluid state, hardening and sharpening as it flies, or be spit as a solid and sharp shard already. Smoke is the air plus the solid particles of the burning fuel. I always saw gas as either flammable gases, poisonous gases. For example, putting out a lot of carbon monoxide around the opponent. I was suggested lightning for Implosion by making use of the vibration aspect of it, which would be used to make the target less stable. Rust isn't ruled out. I sort of see it as the decaying agent being rust itself. As such, there would kinda be both rust and the natural decaying in organic matter. In a rather simplified way, I always saw Petroleum and Coal as flammable versions of Water and Earth Release. I can probably think of some neater effects. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 17:11, November 4, 2012 (UTC)
Aw :/, I hope ShounenSuki returns one day to help us out, at least. Who's gonna create the images?
I think the "effects/functions" column would be a great addition for everyone, especially for those who read too fast and don't realize that Dawn should be solar radiation and that Star should be plasma. Others could take a quick look at what the nature's jutsu would look like. I hope you get to take a read on the pages I linked; I think they help greatly in the ideas department. Here, I tried to organize what you answered for me so far in a favourable form. Feel free to take and edit the following to add to the column ^^
- Dawn Release: Turns chakra into "aurora", or a form of solar radiation, and manipulates it. Can use it to burn, ignite, or cut, and also disorient due to brightness.
- Cloud Release: Turns chakra into clouds and manipulates them. An alternative to steam. Dense enough to physically push things. Can possibly be used to absorb and diffuse lightning.
- Smoke Release: Turns chakra into smoke and manipulates it. Can be used in various ways, such as instant smoke screens and suffocation.
- A more specific detail could help.
- Gas Release: Turns chakra into a highly combustible and poisonous gas and manipulates it, or manipulates pre-existing gases. Other gases are available with more finesse.
- The ability to be manipulated may not be a great idea on my part, since Boil Release couldn't control the harmful cloud of acid. Same goes for many of the following natures; Boil Release simply couldn't brush aside the potential threat to allies.
- Metal Release: Turns chakra into metal and manipulates it, or manipulates pre-existing metal. Can use iron and steel versions of Earth Release techniques. Other metals are available with more skill, including softer metals such as the alkali metals.
- Solid form is favoured for manipulation, and metal becomes difficult to control in liquid form; hence, Mercury is not included.
- Purification Release: Turns chakra into a form of energy that discriminates between targets and manipulates it.
- A similar idea is Fairy Law, a spell that covers a huge area with a light that only harms those who the user considers an enemy.
- Power Release: Uses chakra to convert energy.
- A more specific detail could help.
- Star Release: Turns chakra into "star", or plasma, and manipulates it.
- Glass Release: Turns chakra into glass and manipulates it. Somewhat like solid form of Wind Release. Controls either liquid glass or glass shards which mold into glass structures.
- Sky Release: Turns chakra into some form of energy and manipulates it.
- A more specific detail could help.
- Implosion Release: Turns chakra into an unstabilizing, crushing energy and uses it to cause targets to collapse upon themselves.
- Pulse Release: Turns chakra into a propagating energy to utilize attacks such as powerful ripples or shock waves.
- Rust Release: Turns chakra into a form of matter resembling rust and manipulates it. Affects organic targets to cause decay, decomposition, and rotting.
- Dry Release: Turns chakra into a dehydrating energy and manipulates it. Can remove moisture without addition of heat.
- I imagine chakra acting as a towel, the Yin aspect acting to dry by making itself damp.
- Miasma Release: Turns chakra into airborne pathogens (e.g. viruses) and manipulates them. A disease-infested version of Wind Release, which can continue to multiply exponentially to destroy entire armies without the user's effort.
- Mirror Release: Turns chakra into a reflective energy and manipulates it. Has various effects, such as trapping targets in mirrors, reflecting enemy attacks, and confusing with illusions.
- Welding Release: Turns chakra into a bonding energy and manipulates it. Can merge different objects together at the molecular level while freely manipulating their forms.
- (Lightning + Earth + Yang)
- Disruption Release: Turns chakra into a disruptive energy and manipulates it. Destroys systems, causing disorder.
- A new idea I came up with was found in Erwin Schrödinger's book What is life, which stated his idea that life is a system which exports entropy (or imports negentropy, but same thing). Of course, that doesn't mean it disobeys the second law of thermodynamics or anything, since it would just increase the net entropy around itself. I found this interesting because that means we can add the general physical definition that Disruption Release works to increase entropy, although Fire, Wind, and Lightning do sound disorderly as well... but it was a worthy discovery.
- (Lightning + Water + Yang)
- Petroleum Release: Turns chakra into petroleum and manipulates it. Somewhat like a flammable version of Water Release.
- Mercury Release: Turns chakra into liquid mercury and manipulates it. Somewhat like a mercury version of Water Release. Every touch and wound inflicted becomes poisoned, spreading throughout the body.
- I also imagine momentarily shaping mercury into weapons, as well as taking advantage of the vapour it releases.
- Bacteria Release: Turns chakra into bacteria and manipulates them, or manipulates pre-existing bacteria. Bacteria, unlike Miasma, can also be used to convert chemicals to cause beneficial effects.
- Not airborne, unlike Miasma.
- A more specific detail could help.
- Coal Release: Turns chakra into coal and manipulates it. Somewhat like a flammable version of Earth Release.
- Flint Release: Turns chakra into a form of matter that resembles flint and manipulates it. Upon impact, this matter releases sparks which ignite and explode.
- Alcohol Release: Turns chakra into alcohol and manipulates it. Can manipulate ethanol (e.g. A haze that makes targets drunk, which can also be ignited), or other alcohols.
- Scald Release: Turns chakra into a hot liquid and manipulates it. Can be used to burn enemies, or to heal allies with a hot spring-like effect.
- Fluid Release: Turns chakra into a fluidising energy and uses it to turn targets into fluid forms. Targets can be fluidised without the addition of heat.
- Erase Release: Turns chakra into an erasing energy and manipulates it. Can make targets appear to vanish into thin air by overwhelming Yin, which governs form, with Yang. This causes the target's form to collapse, reducing them to raw untraceable energy (?)
- I avoid saying "erases from existence" but I guess that's sorta what it does... It just sounds way too powerful that way ahaha.
- Health Release: Uses chakra to affect metabolism and homeostasis, allowing the user to utilize negative and positive feedback systems to instantly adapt to a particular situation, maintaining a perfectly healthy state. This effect can also be applied to heal allies. Can also be used to negatively affect the health of enemies.
- Soul Release: Involves techniques that affect souls, also powered by the user's soul. Possibly changing the souls of others, etc.
- Since Umishiru's animation idea was not accepted due to this nature's existence, this nature could also turn chakra into artificial souls and imbue objects with them to bring them to life.
- Mind Release: Uses chakra to affect the minds of targets. Similar to the Yamanaka clan's signature techniques, except more versatile and with fewer requirements.
- Flesh Release: Turns chakra into soft tissues, muscles, fats, or organs and manipulates them, or manipulates pre-existing flesh. Somewhat like a living version of Earth Release, possibly similar to Jiraiya's Summoning: Toad Mouth Bind, but as a creation instead of summoning. Could involve complex healing.
- Combined with Shikotsumyaku, this could create and repair whole bodies! ^^
- Blood Release: Turns chakra into blood and manipulates it, or manipulates already-existing blood. Can use blood versions of Water Release techniques. Can utilize it for a variety of effects (e.g. A clone of the enemy can be created from the target's blood, which shares pain via a blood link.). Can possibly also take partial control over summons utilizing blood.
I also noticed that previous posts by other users had lists such as these, and I hope I didn't repeat too much info, and hopefully added new ones. I really look forward to an "Effects" column. ^^ --GoDai (talk) 07:34, November 9, 2012 (UTC)
I’m glad you mentioned that other users had posted similar recaps because I’m one of those users and at first I thought, “What was my recap, chopped liver?” ~laughs~ In all seriousness, though, it’s good that you posted another recap since 1) with previous parts of this discussion going into archives, it’s good to have a reminder of what we’ve had so far and 2) you added updates, additional information, and fascinating thoughts and commentary. Good job! As for an effects column, I'd like to see one as well. Raidra (talk) 16:59, November 29, 2012 (UTC)
Four-part elemental combinations? Edit
Hey Omnibender, have you ever considered the possibilities of four-part combinations? I am trying to make a list of the possible four-part combinations, and here's my ideas so far:
Water + Earth + Fire + Air = Ether Ether, in ancient Greek culture, is the combination of the four elements (Water, Earth, Fire, and Air). It is meant to be some kind of matter that made up space.
Water + Earth + Fire + Lightning = Concrete Firstly, Water, Earth, and Fire would make some kind of tar, or other sticky substance. Lightning would solidify it, thus making a material such as concrete.
I hope you like my idea. I am currently trying to think up combinations for Water, Earth, Fire, and Yin or Yang. I would greatly appreciate your advice on this matter. 22.214.171.124 (talk) 20:28, November 3, 2012 (UTC)
No, I haven't. I don't think it's necessary to try making such complex combos. The only reason I even bothered making three element combinations is because the series itself introduced them. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 17:11, November 4, 2012 (UTC)
Idea Pt. 17 Edit
Aether Release. Lightning + Earth + Yang. Mythological wise. Aether has been seen as the air the gods breathed and at one time in Alchemy seen as the one element that does not change, has no temperature but does change density. It was once used in theories to explain the existence of magnetic fields and the like. So maybe a form or matter or energy that fluctuates in density but stays at a constant temperature or doesn't have one, having that "room temperature" feel. The Yang overpowers the Yin and attributes to its unavailability to change form. Sort of like a "stuck" or "lock" release. As for how it would be used. A object or energy hit with it would be stuck in its present form. So a Ice user could not freeze affected water, or a lava user could not melt the ground. The only thing that changes is that the object's density is fluctuating up and down. Lightning allows the element to exist in energy form, Earth physical and attributes to the density, with Yang overpowering Yin to prevent the change of form while powering up Earth's ability to change density but causes this enhanced density powers to become unstable and fluctuate. Perhaps while traveling or when it hits, it releases a magnetic field where everything it, is affected by it powers.
Ideas Pt. 18 Edit
Life/Vital release. Water + Lightning + Yang. Lightning, as electricity, is seen as the spark of life. Water is seen as the one essential ingredient that allows life to form and survive with most if not all forms of life relying on it. Yang is seen as life energy. These three aspects are combined to create the ultimate life element.
Separation/Divide/Split release. Water + Lightning + Yang. Electrolysis of water which basically breaks up water into its base elements of oxygen and hydrogen by passing electricity through it. This action of separation is then enhanced or speed up by yang. Basically an element that breaks up a element into a constituent parts. Lava into fire and earth, salt water into salt and water, and a exploding tag into ink and paper. Sort of like a un-fusion element.Umishiru (talk) 11:19, November 25, 2012 (UTC)
Idea Compilation Edit
I thought it would be beneficial to compile a list of the ideas for the only two remaining advanced natures, Lightning + Earth + Yang and Lightning + Water + Yang, which have not been rejected. These are from Archive 8 to the present (pretty much the last 12 months or so) and are listed in chronological order so they can be looked up easily. I apologize if I left out any. On February 16, 2012, I offered Front Release as a combination of Lightning, Water, and Yang. In weather terminology, a front occurs when two masses of air at different temperatures come together. This causes clouds to form, often causing weather conditions such as rainfall/thunderstorms or snowfall/snowstorms. This release would allow the user to control weather to a limited degree. However, I’m not going to include it in this list because after reading through these I thought, “Well, forget my dumb idea! These are awesome!” I’m not going to try to come up with more ideas because I don’t think I can do any better than what’s already been offered.
Lightning + Earth + Yang Ideas
- Ferment Release- This release would allow the user to give their chakra the properties of organisms such as yeast. This would allow the user to cause their chakra to induce fermentation in targeted organic objects in order to convert substances for their own purposes. (GoDai, 1/13/12)
- Friction/Static Release- This release would change kinetic energy into heat and turn chakra into a force which resists mechanical motion. The energy produced feels like sandpaper on skin and wears down targets the more they try to move. It may also be able to reduce friction (making the user immune to most forms of weaponry by making the friction of their skin almost non-existent, causing the attacks to slip off their body harmlessly), generate static charges, and allow the user to build up and discharge energy from friction. (GoDai, 1/30/12)
- Unnamed solid light release- This release would create solid holograms that can interact with the real world. (Umishiru, 2/20/12)
- Diffuse Release- This release would ground an object and convert it into energy that is then dispersed almost like a sponge. It travels in a circle radius instead of spinning like Blocking Technique Absorption. (Umishiru, 2/20/12)
- Vein/Alchemy Release- This release would create rivers of life force energy which rejuvenate and revive. (Umishiru, 2/22/12)
- Glow/Waste Release- This release would radiate energy similar to Radiation Release or Scorch Release. This radiation is very harmful and is a cancer-like release in that it makes the target’s own cells/molecules attack and destroy one another. (Umishiru, 3/20/12)
- Static Release- This release would allow the user to build up energy in small places and release huge power in an instant. (Nrvnqsr Chaos, 6/18/12)
- Aether Release (Ether Release in American English)- This release would be a sort of “stuck” or “lock” release in that an object or energy hit with it would be stuck in its present form, though its density could still fluctuate up and down. For instance, an Ice Release user could not freeze affected water and a Lava Release user could not melt the ground. The name could also be another name for Sky Release. (Umishiru, 11/24/12)
Lightning + Water + Yang Ideas
- Ferment/Catalyst Release- This release would create chakra that can act as a powerful catalyst, which can be used to give a target yeast-like properties. This would allow the user to cause their chakra to cause fermentation in targeted organic objects in order to convert substances for their own purposes. (GoDai suggested Ferment Release as Lightning + Earth + Yang on 1/13/12 and Umishiru suggested it as Lightning + Water + Yang on 1/15/12)
- Unnamed space release- This release would allow the user to manipulate space itself as a force, bending and warping it like a Water Release user manipulates water. (GoDai suggested this on 2/10/12, but Umishiru was the one who originally suggested a space-related nature)
- Wild/Raw/Random/Free Release- This release would create a flowing, untamed, very bright, plasma-like liquid. (Umishiru, 2/20/12)
- Immortality/Youth Release- This release would be the opposite of Rust Release in that it deals with renewal, rebirth, and revival. It turns a broken and old object into a working and new object, and it also kick-starts a living being’s life force. While Health Release is like medical ninjutsu turned into an element, this would be like reincarnation ninjutsu turned into an element. (Umishiru, 2/22/12)
- Repair Release- This release would be the inorganic version of Health Release and the opposite of Disruption/Malfunction Release. While Health Release heals living things, this release restores damage done to non-living objects. (Umishiru, 2/27/12)
- Force Release- This release would allow the user to create an invisible, fluid-like force which can move things in a way similar to telekinesis. It can push, levitate, and block objects as well as create force fields. (GoDai, 3/9/12)
- Glow/Waste Release- This is the same as the Glow/Waste Release mentioned above, but in liquid form. (Umishiru, 3/20/12)
- Conduction Release- This release would allow for many versatile conduction techniques (126.96.36.199 suggested it on 3/20/12 and Charmanking2198 suggested it as lightning + water + yang on 3/21/12)
- Jet Release- This release allows one to compress an enormous amount of water and shoot it with immense piercing force. (Nrvnqsr Chaos, 6/18/12)
- Fluorescent or Dew Release- This release would be something of a liquid light, like a cross between Light Release and Storm Release. (Umishiru, 8/12/12)
- Unnamed space/force/telekinesis sort of thing release- This release would allow the user to levitate and manipulate anything within a specific area. (GoDai, 11/5/12)
- Life/Vital Release- This release would be the ultimate life element. (Umishiru, 11/25/2012)
- Separation/Divide/Split Release- This release would break up an element into its constituent parts, sort of like an un-fusion release. For instance, it would render an exploding tag harmless by reducing it to just ink and paper. (Umishiru, 11/25/12)
Very confused Edit
Hi, I was re-reading your amazing page but when I came to the Earth + [Element] grid, I was very confused.
You added non-canon natures, like swift, crystal and even dark release, but not steel.
Instead, you put the land release in place.
My question is, why not make these changes:
Earth + Yin: Steel release. Steel is purified earth. It's harder, colder, more firm. It's a more aggressive material as it is used in war many times. It's the more negative side of earth.
Earth + Yang: Crystal release. Crystals have always been perceived as one of nature's most beautiful creations. It represents the pure-side of earth, the more positive side.
I've added the movie natures because even as movie natures, they're higher in the canon hierarchy than anything I come up with. Steel used to be there before Yin and Yang appeared, before they appeared and made Blaze Release make sense without it being Fire + Fire. Steel was Earth + Earth before Yin and Yang came along. Crystals may come from nature, but the fact it has a precise structure was pointed out in the anime, so that's where Yin factors in. I felt it was better to tie into something already known about it. Land came along when I began making Yang combinations as stronger/bigger versions of the basic five by themselves. I think I had Steel there for a while before changing it, I'd have to check previous revisions. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 01:34, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
I hope it doesn’t sound like we’re ganging up on Omnibender, but I mostly agree with Derigar. Some time ago I said Steel Release should be Earth + Yang, but I like Derigar’s idea too. As mentioned in the previous topic, the arguments I made concerning Steel Release were in the “What We Have So Far” section from February 2012. The points I made were 1) Steel Release should be inserted someplace and 2) it’s not too similar to the proposed Metal Release as they have different effects. Raidra (talk) 04:37, January 12, 2013 (UTC)
So, what do you think Omnibender? Does it need a change you feel? Adding all the currently known natures might be better than making a completely new one.
Combining Basic Natures with Kekkei Genkai? Edit
Hello, Omnibender. I was wondering if maybe it was possible to combine basic natures (such as Water Release) with kekkei genkai (Ice Release). Water Release + Ice Release could probably make Nitrogen Release, or something similar. Please voice your opinion on this. 188.8.131.52 (talk) 20:41, January 17, 2013 (UTC)Anonymous
- Not something I would try, as a merger of an advanced nature with anything else has never been suggested possible. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 21:56, January 17, 2013 (UTC)
Adding the List of suggested natures Edit
- If someone suggests me a nature for a spot I don't already have an idea, and I think it's a good enough idea, I'll certainly add it. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 15:12, January 19, 2013 (UTC)
Earth + Yang = Steel Edit
I believe that Steel is Earth + Yang. Land doesn't make much sense, no offense. You say that Land manipulates land not covered by water, but I believe that to be too broad for a specific element. I don't mean to be rude, but I just believe that Steel is a more logical combination. 184.108.40.206 (talk) 01:37, February 13, 2013 (UTC)
Help with an elemental idea? Edit
Hey Omnibender, could you help me with this elemental combination here? I'm making a story and it makes heavy use of the elements. Yin + Nature = ???
- Nature the element of everything plant.
Yin + Nature would be a corrupted version of plant life. Also, can I use your ideas for two-part combinations and three-part combinations in my story? 220.127.116.11 (talk) 09:17, February 28, 2013 (UTC)-
Differently, you can see an example of Nature+Yang use at Shodai's use of wood... Yang really power-up the speed trees grow. Yin + Nature = Poison, Yang + Nature = Life --18.104.22.168 (talk) 17:03, February 28, 2013 (UTC)
I'm trying to create a theory in which non-natured techniques that aren't derived from advanced chakra manipulation ( Rasengan in a mass of chakra rotating basically...) like Henge, Bunshin and Kawarimi are all derived from Yin and Yang: Yin -> Genjutsu, Perception-changing techniques and so Yang -> Medical jutsus, Corpse-changing techs, Barrier Ninjutsu and so. I wanted to ask: for you ( I'm asking it to all peoples here ) how I should categorize them? Starting from the basic techs, Henge and Bunshin seems to be Yin-related (maybe some Bunshin (like Kage Bunshin) are partly Yang-related), while Kawarimi is Yang-related. --HakuNoKaemi (talk) 10:15, March 4, 2013 (UTC)
Stick to the basics of what is known of yin and yang: if the technique has a more ethereal effect, it's yin, if it has a more physical, tangible effect, make it yang. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 00:39, March 5, 2013 (UTC)
Suggestions list Edit
- Following the advice of ROOT 根, I also put a copy on my profile page. Raidra (talk) 17:15, May 7, 2013 (UTC)
Steel and Crystal Release Edit
Hello there! First off I want to say I love your ideas for other advanced nature, I also had an idea for the Cloud Release a while back. Well now to the useful part.
I read your troubles on Steel and Crystal Release, on which one would be the Earth + Yin combo. Well I was watching the Three-Tails arc and noticed that whenever they would describe Guren's ability to create crystals out of thin air, they always mentioned "crystallizing the moister in the air". Possibly, Crystal Release uses Yin chakra to reshape the water in the air for the crystals. If Crystal Release was in fact Water + Yin, that would free up the Earth + Yin for Steel Release! Hope you find this helpful! --Daniel80000 (talk) 05:49, May 9, 2013 (UTC)
Edit: I also see people talking about Yin being ethereal and Yang being tangible. Then wouldn't Crystal (from your list) be Earth + Yang, since it is changing the physical form of the Earth? I usually base mine on what you said before on Yin-Yang Release; "Yin is giving nothingness shape, and Yang is giving that shape life." So how I see it was Yin gives something that doesn't have a set form (ex. Water, Fire, Lightning) shape like an advanced Shape Transformation, and Yang alters the form of something that already has shape (Medical Healing, Shadow Clones, ect.). Of course this contradicts my above statement, so my new theory would be Earth + Yang = Steel (since it is altering the form of the Earth/Body into Steel, and Water + Yang = Crystal (since it is altering the form of the Water/Moister into Crystal. Again, hope you find this helpful! Daniel80000 (talk) 03:00, July 6, 2013 (UTC)
Yin can be used to make ethereal things, but it deals primarily with shape and form. Earth is already tangible, so Yin would create the shape within earth, making the crystals. I think the reason I resist most to Steel as Earth and Yang is because Yang is said to breathe life into things, and symbolically speaking, in relation to earth, metals are stronger and sturdier, but also sterile, they have no ability to bear life like earth does. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 14:20, July 6, 2013 (UTC)
Ok, thank you for the Yin/Yang clarification and the example with the bearing life. With that I would like to revisit my original idea of Water+Yin=Crystal. When Kabuto first met up with Guren, he mentioned that she could crystallize the moister in the air to literally create weapons out of thin air. Almost every time Guren used Crystal Release on a large scale, she was on a large body of water (The fight with Kakashi and trying to seal/fight the Three Tails), with the only exemption being the giant barrier which I exclude because that was Jutsu that needed prep when the other two times were combat related and more spurs of the moment. Your thoughts? Daniel80000 (talk) 08:00, July 8, 2013 (UTC)
Highly doubt water has anything to do with Guren's Crystal Release. Guren can turn everything with mass into crystal. Fire and lightning technically do have mass, but they're mostly energy and chemical reactions, so it's not that effective. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 22:23, July 8, 2013 (UTC)
Suggest please Edit
Hello, i'm a newbie, and i have some idea for your page, sorry for my bad english or my bad suggestion!
two elements combination
1. I prefer earth + wind = steel release instead of sand because
- Sand has never been mentioned as an advanced nature, neither in-universe nor in any other official sources, such as databooks.
- I prefer steel because it is mentioned as advanced nature, although it's non-canon, but you not put it on your icon grid
- steel consist wind because steel is win againts lightning (conduction), altough it's likely steel release user get a shock from electricity, but steel release user seem can redirect it or neutralize it.
- or other alternative= steel is earth + yang chakra instead of land
2. I prefer lightning + wind = magnet instead of swift, i suggest swift is wind combined with yin chakra to debunk the sound release theories because some character can use sound based ninjutsu altough it was filler
3.for earth + lightning = i suggest explosion
4.for lightning + fire = you can use your own theories
three element combination -for fire + lightning + earth i suggest nuclear instead of metal, because fire create blast effect, lightning create nuclear reaction and blah blah blah i don't know very much, and lightning also create blast, earth = lightning + earth seem combined to create explosion release so nuclear is advanced version of explosion.
- and from my two element combination, i suggest earth + wind is steel, so you can put metal release on your glass release, and put your glass release to your mirror release, because i confused between mirror and glass, but i think glass also match with water + lightning + earth or other unknown combination, thanks
--Afif Brika 13:40, May 29, 2013 (UTC)
Rainbow and Gravity Edit
Hey i have suggestion about lightning + water + yang/yin combination how about rainbow release because it was created through light(lightning+yang) and got reflection from water.
but rainbow as nature not making sense and seem not has any strength
how about electrical rainbow, and naming it Spectrum or Reflection release
I also has suggestion lightning + earth + yang/yin combination is Gravitation release, possibly stronger version of magnet release Afif Brika 11:52, May 31, 2013 (UTC)
Idea Pt 19. Edit
Reject/Repulse/Push Release. Lightning + Water + Yang. The idea behind this element is how when Water and Electricity is mixed, aka a electrical water current, living beings that touch this electrified water are shocked. I was thinking of a element that made objects or the opponent, give off a violent discharge of energy when touch, basically turn them or the object into a circuit that "repulses" or react negatively to objects or beings that disrupt them aka touch made react to chakra signatures. Water's ability to carry Lightning's charge is mixed with Lightnings energy, while Yang boost this circuit or flowing energy to unstable levels.Umishiru (talk) 03:26, July 6, 2013 (UTC)
- Sounds kinda like the Pulse Release you gave me for Lightning Wind Yang. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 14:20, July 6, 2013 (UTC)
- The difference between this and pulse is that it doesn't radiate energy and gives off a explosive charge when upset by outside forces. Like dipping your finger into electrified water. The idea is to take the qualities of electrified water and pass it on to objects while yang enhances these qualities to unstable levels.Umishiru (talk) 17:02, July 6, 2013 (UTC)
Kishi has done it again. Edit
Now with the latest chapters, we have a advanced nature(unnamed) made of 4 elements. While I think he should of made what Obito was using a three element combination seeing as he has only revealed one three element fusion so far but oh well. While I doubt we will get a name for it soon, I think we can at least discus what it could perhaps be made of. I definitely think Water is a component. I can see it being Wind + Earth + Fire + Water but at the end of the day is just a liquid form of dust release with its shape transformation having time limits on each form. Considering that this manga is ending I would thought that he would expand Kekkei Tota more(in which I think in these same chaps he implied that there are more than just dust release) or just skip to what all 5 merge into to make.Umishiru (talk) 02:06, July 19, 2013 (UTC)
Neither do I. I stick to metering out ideas for three element combinations and hope that kishi expands kekkei tota more. Especially with the Kages(Onoki) being healed and hopefully on their way.Umishiru (talk) 18:07, July 20, 2013 (UTC)
Temporal / Time release Edit
Lightning + Water + Yin/Yang Lightning + Earth + Yin/Yang
Any of those two could fit a nature combination that turns chakra into a time-like form, distorting the time of the current place (where ever the chakra reaches) and allowing the user to travel time in that space. Would of course only give the user a few seconds, up to half a minute of control of time, but I think it would be more than enough.
Also, the "Very Confused" part has had a little of discussion content. Could you voice your opinion over it?
Lack of enthusiasm to finish to final spots (the main ideas are in the talk pages), real life stuff, no ShounenSuki for icons (though there's another user I might be able to ask them from), and crazier by the chapter stuff that requires my attention in and time in discussions. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 19:45, April 22, 2014 (UTC)
That honestly makes me sad.. I really enjoyed this page and I would've loved to see it finished. However I completely understand your reasonings. I hope you will finish it sometime in the future. For all it is worth, I also wish you good luck with your other stuff. This page gave me and friends a lot of discussions. Derigar (talk) 23:38, April 23, 2014 (UTC)
Another possible combination for Explosion. Dumb theory, though Edit
I know it's kinda strange, but some day some question bugged me: Dust Release can be considered a "powered up" version of the Explosion Release, since in can be considered as a contained and "throwable" explosion. That, with the fact Kekkei Tota could be literally an inheritance "selection", introduced me the fact that Kekkei Totas could be formed by the union of two Kekkei Genkai. What Iwagakure Kekkeis we know? Explosion( that's funny(?) ) and Magma: Dust is Earth+Fire+Wind, so the Kekkei Genkai forming it can be: Earth+Fire ( yeah, Magma ), Earth+Wind (as now could be Sand) and Wind+Fire ( generally acknowledged to be Scorch ). Since one of the possibility for Explosion is occupied, the probability is that, if we say that "Kekkei Totas are generated by selecting the Bloodline and making the child inherit two Kekkei Genkai and after that, training him in some way" , the Explosion is composed by Earth and Wind. Imagine an object(Earth) imploding because of the air pressure ( the fire can be actually be produced by the friction of air and earth.--HakuNoKaemi (talk) 23:13, January 5, 2014 (UTC)
Magnet Release Edit
- It's either Wind+Lightning or Wind+Earth, no other option.--Elveonora (talk) 11:48, April 28, 2014 (UTC)
- Basically, if Blaze ever gets confirmed to be Fire+Lightning, then the only remaining dual combinations will be:
We also have 2 advanced natures which we don't know the composition of, them being Explosion Release and Magnet Release... also 1 yet to be revealed advanced nature.
The most common bet of people for Explosion seems to be Fire+Lightning, but I reserve that one for Blaze. Wind+Earth isn't Magnet or Explosion IMO, that will be the unrevealed nature. Therefore Explosion and Magnet each may be either Wind+Lightning or Lightning+Earth, up to you to guess which fits which...--Elveonora (talk) 12:50, April 28, 2014 (UTC)
Also what a "coincidence" that there are 10 Tailed Beasts (well, nine, but the Shinju is the progenitor of Tailed Beasts) and there are 10 possible dual type combinations. I think it's obvious at this point ^_
- Shukaku has Magnet Release, confirmed
- Matatabi may have Blaze Release, was sealed in a Kumogakure kunoichi, Kumogakure also have black lightning, so a possible tie to black fire
- Isobu may have Ice Release, was sealed in a Kirigakure shinobi, they had Yuki Clan
- Son Goku has Lava Release, confirmed
- Kokuo may have Boil Release, its jinchuuriki used steam, do I need to say more?
- Saiken may also have Boil Release or the unrevealed advanced nature, I'm clueless
- Chomei may have Storm Release, with its head resembling a metal helmet and horns akin to lightning rods
- Gyuki may have Explosion Release
- Kurama may have Scorch Release, used Fire and Wind in the anime, hint :D
- Gedo Mazo may have Wood Release
I find it highly unlikely that Magnet Release wouldn't have Lightning Release in it. I've considered lightning/wind and lightning/earth equally viable candidates for Magnet Release. Magnetism and electricity are too closely related for lightning not to be part of it. Shukaku having Magnet Release tips the scales toward lightning/wind for me. I do believe fire/lightning to be the most reasonable candidate for Explosion Release. Both fire and lightning blow stuff up, and I think that it's an easier rationale than whatever earth's role in the mix would be. If Blaze Release is ever confirmed as fire/lightning, then earth/lightning becomes my default choice for Explosion Release, but only then. I still hope for Yin Release influence on Blaze Release, or even just plain old Deus Ex Machina explanation that it's just a stronger Fire Release. As far as each tailed beast goes in having a nature, my guesses are:
- Shukaku has Magnet Release, no question there. Whether that is earth/lightning or wind/lightning changes a few things to other tailed beasts.
- Matatabi has Fire Release, so it would have to have one that has it. Either Scorch Release or Explosion Release, if Explosion Release is fire/lightning, which also ties in with Kumogakure, which has a predominant use of Lightning Release. If Explosion Release doesn't have fire, then Scorch Release. The Scorch Release orbs have this will-o-the-wisp look that also fits Matatabi in the ghost cat sort of way.
- Isobu, I find it unlikely that it doesn't have something with water. Ice Release is my top choice, but I don't put it past Kishimoto to give it either Storm Release or Boil Release. Ice Release is my main option because it's what most closely resembles its coral.
- Son Gokū has Lava Release, no question there.
- Kokuō is tricky, because Han's steam comes from a tool, so all other feats left to this pair are physical ones. My guess is a yet to be revealed wind/earth combination or an earth/lightning combo if that's not Explosion Release.
- Saiken, the most obvious choice is Boil Release.
- Chōmei, that's the one I can see most things working on. Like Kokuō, I can see an unrevealed earth/wind, unrevealed earth/lightning (either as Explosion Release, or if Magnet Release is wind/lightning).
- Gyūki would have Storm Release. Lightning has the association with Kumogakure, and the Water Release fits the ink aspect if you factor in the octopus part.
- Kurama, similar to Matatabi, would have either Scorch Release (again the orbs fitting the ill-spirit thing it has), Explosion Release (if it is fire/lightning), or something else I haven't picked yet that isn't Wood Release.
I know that this set up leaves Wood Release out and both the Statue and the Shinju. It would tie up the whole each entity having a combination, I agree, but I think that as having all of these entities, Shinju clearly would have all (in addition to the Truth-Seeking Balls), so at most Gedō Mazō would have it, though for that brings up an even greater issue that being how Hashirama got to have it. If interaction with the "source" of the combination is how the kekkei genkai showed up, there's no way Hashirama could have interacted with it to get Wood Release. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 19:19, April 28, 2014 (UTC)
- Yes. Magnet being Lightning+Wind seems most plausible. Lightning is about vibrations and has connection to metals, while Wind is this kind of invisible force that moves things.
- The reason why I don't see it probable for Explosion to be Fire+Lightning is because Deidara also has Earth. Dunno, most Jounin have 2 natures and even though strong, Deidara doesn't seem like a ninjutsu expert to me, he didn't show anything besides bombs, so him having 3 basic natures kinda overestimates his skill imo.
- If Fire+Lightning gets confirmed as Blaze, why not to consider it for Matatabi?
- I don't think it was ever explained how Han's steam armor worked. Both machinery and chakra may be involved. But now you mention it... Boil and steam are considerably different, boil is actually more akin to acidic mist... damn. The reason why I came to believe the dolphin-horse has Boil was that a dolphin is an aquatic creature (so Water) and Han wears a red steam producing armor (so Fire) and that makes up Boil.
- No disagreement with slug, but my gut would want to be right with dolphin-horse having it
- Storm is highly probable for the bug, since it flies (heaven) and its head resembles a metallic helm and horns lightning rods
- Possible, but I just can't imagine Gyuki using Storm, dunno why. But whatever it has, Lightning is definitely involved, cause "Kumo pride" :D
- Kurama would have to do something with Fire definitely
- Well, neither Ashura nor Naruto seem to show any signs of Wood, so it likely didn't have much with him having been "an incarnate" If you asked me, I'd have told you a cool story, such as: "when Hashirama was just a tad, he came across a wooden chip (actually a part of the Gedo Mazo)... he bit some of it, having though it to be a licorice" or short story short, in case it indeed turns out that Shinju has Wood too, then whatever reason Kishi makes up, if any--Elveonora (talk) 20:22, April 28, 2014 (UTC)
Now I think about it, Earth+Wind might as well be Crystal Release. It wouldn't be the first canonical thing to have appeared in the anime first, not to mention it's pretty cool nature, too good for the Pierrot to have thought up--Elveonora (talk) 20:26, April 28, 2014 (UTC)
Kurotsuchi, another shinobi from the same village as Deidara has a basic nature nature unrelated to the ones used in her advanced nature. Deidara not using the basic natures of his kekkei genkai can easily be hubris regarding his art. I find Blaze to be way too closely connected to the Uchiha for it be "sourced" to a tailed beast. I know it's hardly an argument for it, but in Storm 3, Kokuō's shuriken and chakra-shuriken both involved a wind-like pressure, similar to the "pressure" that is Naruto's chakra shuriken in his four and six tailed transformations. I didn't consider Storm for Chōmei because its effects don't quite suit it. Storm Release as it is was never associated with flying or heaven. I do get why there would be a connection with lightning, but the explosion seemed more fitting. Again, not much of an argument, but it would tie in with its ultimate jutsu from Storm 3 a bit, if the scale powder was explosive. My issue with Crystal being earth/wind is because there's no way I can see how wind would be a part of it. Be it symbolism, actual real world effects, or in-universe effects of the chakra natures, I can't see a sound enough explanation that would convince me that wind is a part of crystal. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 21:19, April 28, 2014 (UTC)
I figured Earth and Wind would be a good candidate for Magnet Release because if rock falls under Earth Release then anything to do with metals probably would too, Wind obviously would allow the magnetic material to move freely, like iron sand which didn't seem to exhibit the magnetic trait that Toroi used with his technique, instead allowing for directing the sand to take whichever form was required. TricksterKing (talk) 21:34, April 28, 2014 (UTC)
I never said that an advanced nature user may not use a basic nature which doesn't make up the advanced. Deidara left the village while he was like 10 (as unrealistic as it may appear) I somehow can't imagine a 10 years old kid obsessed with nothing but bombs using 3 natures already. And I guess you are right, Blaze is still surrounded in mystery... not an argument of course, but Matatabi having Blaze would "tie in" with Sasuke's relations with Nekobaa and all ;D For Crystal, it's the most likely or perhaps even the only anime nature to be actually canon. Too much work Pierrot put into Guren's techniques, their appearance and effects having been too good for a filler. Dark Release doesn't make any sense whatsoever. Kakuzu showed us that the same effects that the Steel Release had in the movie can be achieved using Earth Release, rendering such a nature as pointless. Swift Release again is irrelevant, there wouldn't be a need for it, hence Body Flicker Technique.
Also Earth+Wind as Crystal makes perfect sense for me. Lets look at properties of each:
- Earth has: "the ability to change the strength and composition from being as hard as metal to as soft as clay, as well as manipulating the density, making things heavier or lighter" (changed the words a bit)
- Wind: "performed by making chakra as sharp and thin as possible" it also seem to produce an actual current/pressure/force
Basically I imagine it that the Wind makes particles in the air thin and sharp like glass and moves them, while Earth increases their density and so. Anyway, I hope Kishi will show us all the advanced natures before the manga is over.
@Elveonora, that's true, but it doesn't mean that it can't, given that earth release has shown control over mud, dirt and rock, metal comes from the ground so it's not a huge stretch of imagination to say that it can be manipulated via earth release. TricksterKing (talk) 06:31, April 29, 2014 (UTC)
Blaze would be a new nature by combining the two components into a completely new one, Madara's Yin Lightning seems to just be a supercharged lightning technique that uses Yin release as the primary nature to make it more controlled, most lightning techniques up until this point have been electricity loosely held together or released in a huge blast unlike Madara's forked lightning that had no signs of stray electricity around the forking effect. TricksterKing (talk) 11:19, May 1, 2014 (UTC)
Same way Typhoon Water Vortex Technique isn't Ice Release. Same way C's genjutsu (most likely Yin Release on virtue of being genjutsu) also has Lightning Release. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 16:38, May 1, 2014 (UTC)
Since seemingly Kokuō has Boil Release, this quite complicates things for Saiken. The most logical explanation I can think of is that the way Lava Release is written indeed implies a difference and perhaps the one it and Mei use is "Dissolution Release" a different advanced nature. So a little revision:
- Shukaku = Magnet Release
- Matatabi = Blaze Release
- Isobu = Crystal Release/Ice Release
- Son Goku = Lava Release
- Kokuo = Boil Release
- Saiken = Dissolution Release
- Chomei = Storm Release/Explosion Release
- Gyuki = Storm Release/Explosion Release
- Kurama = Scorch Release
- Kaguya = Wood Release--Elveonora (talk) 11:06, July 9, 2014 (UTC)
Idea Pt. 20 Edit
Enhance / Magnify / Amplify / Boost Release = Earth + Lightning + Yang. Seeing has Lightning can increases one's nervous system(increasing reaction time and speed) and penetration power(through high level vibrations. Earth release has shown to manipulate density to make you light or heavy. Yang is suggested to be a main component in medical ninjutsu and through Kurama yang chakra, is a source of life energy(back in the temple when Yamato's wood release grew crazy and how Naruto beat the Zetsu clones). Or yang could just enhance the effects. The idea is the ultimate strengthening nature allowing the user to enhance various if not all aspects of their physical body at once for various effects. Umishiru (talk) 04:14, April 30, 2014 (UTC)
- Sorry, but Kurama's "yang" chakra didn't have anything to do with the Mokuton, just Kurama's chakra--Elveonora (talk) 09:18, April 30, 2014 (UTC)
- And you are talking to me why? I thought we established that we were leaving each other alone? Umishiru (talk) 20:57, April 30, 2014 (UTC)
- Did we? I don't remember. Even if so, don't tell me you are butthurt over something that took place long enough ago that I forgot.--Elveonora (talk) 21:13, April 30, 2014 (UTC)
- Well now I am reminding you. Unless is discussion pertaining to improving a wiki article that isn't a personal page like this one. We don't need to speak to each other at all.Though I can't stop you from replying, i'll just ignore your posts for then on.Umishiru (talk) 00:36, May 1, 2014 (UTC)
- Did we? I don't remember. Even if so, don't tell me you are butthurt over something that took place long enough ago that I forgot.--Elveonora (talk) 21:13, April 30, 2014 (UTC)
- And you are talking to me why? I thought we established that we were leaving each other alone? Umishiru (talk) 20:57, April 30, 2014 (UTC)