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Concerning Bakuton

It's possible before he took the Iawkagure Kinjutsu he was using Bakuton in a similar fashion to Gari and with the Kinjutsu was able to find a different style of use for Bakuton. It's very well possible that Bakton has the same weakness as the Earth element or has the same chakra color as Earth Element, if thats the case then Sasuke could have easliy mixed the two up. Its also possible that the clay are in fact Earth Natured in their creation and chakra composition but the explosions are triggered by Bakuton.Umishiru (talk) 03:21, December 31, 2010 (UTC)

I find it unlikely that an advanced nature can have a weakness just like a basic nature. It would be more complex I think. And we don't have any canon example for different natures having different colors. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 04:15, December 31, 2010 (UTC)
Which is my point, Sasuke could have got them mixed up, and why not? Kisame was able to beat a Lava user. It makes since that Water beats Lava unless the user follows up with a Earth release jutsu from the cooled lava. Look at Wood it could have fire as a weakness. Sometimes the best answers come from not over complicating it.Umishiru (talk) 06:25, January 1, 2011 (UTC)
My current belief is that Deidara's clay can explode because he uses the kinjutsu to put in Explosive Release chakra in it, but the actual animation of the clay is done through Earth Release. Elements having advantages or disadvantages isn't the only thing that defines which technique wins, chakra levels also influence it, and with Samehada, Kisame has a big advantage. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 16:14, January 1, 2011 (UTC)
Now, with Shōton, I'd say that Earth and Wind is only the left possibility. It can makes sense, because air can be crystallized. (Well, anything can be crystallized.) It has to be one or the other, if it really is canon. Earth and Lightning or Wind. Vik0z0z (talk) Kami da! 01:42, January 29, 2011 (UTC)
I think since 525 showed Dust is that plus fire, the top contestant for earth and wind is once again sand. If it took this long for things such as the revelation of the regenerative properties of Zabuza's sword and of Deidara's supposed kekkei genkai, him revealing that sand is wind and earth as most believed in the past suddenly seems likely. I'm practically waiting for Gaara to scream "Sand Release" when he fights the Impure World Kage. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 01:48, January 29, 2011 (UTC)
I'd laugh very hard if that happened. Vik0z0z (talk) Kami da! 02:34, January 29, 2011 (UTC)

Fire + Lightning

Another combination could be Plasma Release. Adding Lighting to Fire could heat it to the point it becomes ionized. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plasma_(physics)Umishiru (talk) 03:23, December 31, 2010 (UTC)

You'll see that this is already listed as an alternative theory for Light Release in the proposed combinations table. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 04:15, December 31, 2010 (UTC)

Some Ideas.

Crystal + Yang = Mineral Allows the user access to other crystals besides the Corundum looking Crystal release.

Crystal + Yin = Diamond I noticed that Crystal Release looks like Corundum, its 9 on the hardness scale and Diamond is a step above that. Hard attacks and defenses and perhaps resistance to lightning release but is horrible when fighting fire release(Diamond burns up into granite) and worse at Lava(most diamonds are formed in lava but melt quickly if there isn't enough pressure to set off the heat). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corundum http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohs_scale_of_mineral_hardness

Swift + Yin = Time Speeds up to the point that time begins to bend around the object.Umishiru (talk) 06:53, January 1, 2011 (UTC)

I specifically avoided making Yin and Yang mixes with advanced natures. I think my epileptic tree has enough branches already. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 16:14, January 1, 2011 (UTC)

About Movie Natures

May I question your opinion on the validity of movie natures now? I mean, you removed Steel, but Swift and Dark still remain on the table. I know this may not be so important, but shouldn't Steel be somewhere if you're leaving Dark and Swift? I personally think removing all three of them (and maybe Crystal as well) entirely might be better, since although everyone knew that they could be valid, only Storm made it and the rest seem to be ignored with the release of Explosion and Scorch. Maybe replacements such as "Darkness Release (暗遁; Anton)" can be used? --GoDai (talk) 01:00, January 5, 2011 (UTC)

Steel is still in the second table, the stronger counterpart one. I considered putting Steel as an alternative to Land as Yang Earth, but for some reason I can't quite put my finger on, I decided against it. In a way, I want Chūkichi and the unknown Kumo ninja to just show up and complete the possible combinations. And then we'll still have to wonder about what Blaze really is. Out of mental exhaustion about coming up with those, sometimes I wonder if the Yin and Yang blends can really be separated into Yin+Element and Yang+Element. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 01:15, January 5, 2011 (UTC)

Yeah, I can't decide either. I mean, the Yin and Yang combinations you arranged make a lot of sense, but if one thinks it over, Yin and Yang, as natures of chakra, are rather inherent to chakra itself (as mental and physical aspects), making it likely that Yin Release and Yang Release are "Nature Transformations" that simply magnify already-exisiting natures of chakra, instead of adding a nature like temperature or vibration. Combining one of the Five Basic Natures with the Yin and Yang natures has a different feeling compared to the usual Ice or Lava, but no theory for Blaze really makes sense as much as "Blaze=Fire+Yin." All we really have is something between what we saw Sasuke do and how C describes it. --GoDai (talk) 01:32, January 5, 2011 (UTC)

I still damn the day we first saw Blaze Release. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 02:05, January 5, 2011 (UTC)

Alternate for Wind + Lightning

What about Friction? Nature would increase or decrease the traction of an object, decreasing or increasing its speed/movement.

  • Dry friction resists relative lateral motion of two solid surfaces in contact. Dry friction is subdivided into static friction between non-moving surfaces, and kinetic friction between moving surfaces.
  • Fluid friction describes the friction between layers within a viscous fluid that are moving relative to each other.
  • Lubricated friction is a case of fluid friction where a fluid separates two solid surfaces.
  • Skin friction is a component of drag, the force resisting the motion of a solid body through a fluid.
  • Internal friction is the force resisting motion between the elements making up a solid material while it undergoes deformation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friction Umishiru (talk) 00:22, January 16, 2011 (UTC)

That feels too close to Swift, which in itself wasn't a very good nature the movie writers came up with. If Explosion turns out to be Fire and Lightning, I think I can twist the Light one enough to fit the Lightning/Wind combo. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 00:39, January 16, 2011 (UTC)

Eh, your right, too similar to Swift.Umishiru (talk) 00:48, January 16, 2011 (UTC)

Kekkei Tota

1) How do you feel with the revelation of 3 element combinations? Could it get messy like with Amaterasu?

2) Since Kurotsuchi is the Third Tsuchikage granddaughter and has 3 elements, could that mean that she could have a Kekkei Tota as well?

3) If so, considering how Kishi has been adding in non canon elements(in terms of character design) into the fold, could he be setting up for a canon debut of crystal release through her? It makes since, Fire and Earth make Lava and is cooled by the water enough for crystals to grow. In fact most diamonds are formed under the earth but most melt do to the heat, sometimes the pressure and a volcanic eruptions saved them from a lava fate. If thats the case, then the Earth element could be also providing the pressure.

4) I am happy come to think of it, perhaps Amaterasu is in fact a Kekkei Dota granted through the MS, after all, the MS and the EMS are upgraded versions of a preexisting bloodline limit.Umishiru (talk) 07:03, January 27, 2011 (UTC)

I would like to point out that the Second and Third Tsuchikage are probably the only people in the world with a Kekkei Tōta ability. Jinton is probably the only, although I guess Enton could be one as well, given its mysterious nature and obscurity. Also, judging by the name, it might involve far more than a mere genetic bloodline. Tōta refers to a natural selection of genes, implying some sort of eugenics programme or even genetic manipulation. —ShounenSuki (talk | contribs | translations) 08:04, January 27, 2011 (UTC)
  1. Not a big fan of the revelation, since it opens up loads of possible element combinations. I think Kishimoto tried too hard on this one. And I hope Amaterasu isn't one of those, since Yin Fire makes much more sense.
  2. ShounenSuki already answered that one for me.
  3. Who's to say those designs aren't canon? For all we know, Kishimoto could have given some designs to the movie, or maybe was encouraged by his publisher to offer more integration between the different media, such as manga and movie.
  4. See the first answer. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 14:31, January 27, 2011 (UTC)

Ok... Now you'll have a "little" problem with the table! --The ultimate fan of NARUTO-- welimer2 (talk) 16:57, January 27, 2011 (UTC)

Understatement of the year. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 17:04, January 27, 2011 (UTC)

Don't say that the year has just begun... and... you said it when I stated it long time ago! "If Kishimoto-sensei decides to introduce three element advanced natures, well, I'm going to have a hard time making a table for three elements, not to mention a grid with three entries." --The ultimate fan of NARUTO-- welimer2 (talk) 17:11, January 27, 2011 (UTC)

Just never thought it would actually go this far. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 17:31, January 27, 2011 (UTC)

LOL, you're right! --The ultimate fan of NARUTO-- welimer2 (talk) 17:34, January 27, 2011 (UTC)

It's only ten new possibilities, though, and considering Shikaku's reaction, it's highly unlikely we'll ever see another kekkei tōta. Seeing all possible ones will be practically impossible. —ShounenSuki (talk | contribs | translations) 22:01, January 27, 2011 (UTC)

True about seeing them based on Shikaku's reaction, not so sure about only ten, since Yin and Yang still have to be explained, and the shaping of Blaze Release screams Yin Release influence to me, so throwing in Yin and Yang, we're looking at 35 combinations. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 22:37, January 27, 2011 (UTC)

I personally try to ignore Yin and Yang... Including those makes practically anything possible >< —ShounenSuki (talk | contribs | translations) 22:56, January 27, 2011 (UTC)
Hope for the best, plan for the worst. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:01, January 27, 2011 (UTC)

I agree, Kishi is pushing it. I was hoping that if he did revealed anthing new it would be Yin/Yang + Whatever element. Oh well, with a potential 35 new elements,that table of yours will be big, infact I fear for the Nature Transformation page more. On a side note, the fact that Shikaku thought that only one ninja had a Kekkei Tota when in fact there was two, leans me to think that those who learn it keep such info under lock and key. I wouldn't be surprised in a bit if more Kekkei Tota users appear later on. I agree on the Blaze release being Fire + Yin but in the event that the MS is a Kekkei Tota granting eye(Ameterasu), I would say Fire + Lightning + Wind.Umishiru (talk) 05:18, January 28, 2011 (UTC)

On a side note, good job on the 3 element combination table.Umishiru (talk) 05:19, January 28, 2011 (UTC)

My problem with that combination being Blaze is that Sasuke never ever demonstrated Wind Release. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 15:47, January 28, 2011 (UTC)

Nah, I doubt there's much secrecy involved with kekkei tōta. Shikaku probably didn't know of the Second Tsuchikage because he died decades ago, probably long before Shikaku was even born. The concept of kekkei tōta seems to be well-known and everyone knows of the Third Tsuchikage's Jinton. —ShounenSuki (talk | contribs | translations) 15:51, January 28, 2011 (UTC)

Not counting yin and yang, if you took out all the doubles (earth & fire + wind, wind & fire + earth ect.) how many new natures would there be?--Red-kun (talk) 08:33, January 29, 2011 (UTC)

Ten. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 16:07, January 29, 2011 (UTC)

Just imagine if not only the basic natures and Yin and Yang could be combined, but also all the kekkei genkai natures. You'd end up with more than three thousand possible kekkei tōta ^^ —ShounenSuki (talk | contribs | translations) 16:13, January 29, 2011 (UTC)

I don't think Kishimoto is this crazy. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 16:33, January 29, 2011 (UTC)

Theories

Ok, leaving out Yin and Yang, because my head would combust, I have some ideas.

Wind, Lightning, and Fire would most definitely produce Plasma, if not a regular advanced element.
Wind, Water, and Fire... Maybe, vapor, which can change state, but remain at high temperatures.
Wind, Lightning, and Earth could produce crystal, or explosive air. Chemically unstable.
Fire, Lightning, and Water... Fire, with Storm Release-like properties.
Fire, Lightning, and Earth another viability for crystal, or metal, yes.
Water, Earth, and Wind, could make Mud, maybe, or Glacier? (But, that's too ice-y)
Water, Wind, and Lightning could make light, as ice is refractive, or maybe an Ion release, but different from Plasma.
Water, Earth, and Lightning, jokingly, I'd say magnetic rocks. Other than that, Vaporization? Or Annihilation?
Fire, Earth, and Water could be a Cool Release, that removes heat.

Oh, and as an easier Plasma Release name, use Star Release, or ("Seiton" 星遁). Vik0z0z (talk) Kami da! 02:27, January 29, 2011 (UTC)

At the moment, I have plasma as an alternate for Fire + Lightning. Never found a name for plasma, so it ended up as what you see there. You're not considering Yin and Yang, but in this case, I think taking Wind and putting Yang would fit more nicely. In theory, vapour is a nice idea, but we know beforehand that Han uses it, and it doesn't seem to be a nature. I'll still fit Crystal under two element combinations if I can. Basic Earth Release techniques already use mud. Agree on the glacier. I'm still hoping that Explosion is earth and lightning so Light can be lightning and fire. Cool Release reminds me of the Freezing Release and Cold Release in the "stronger counterpart" section. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 02:46, January 29, 2011 (UTC)

Hmm, what about Metal Relese being Fire + Earth + Lightning? Fire gets rid of the impurities from earth and Lighting gives the metal its properties. Also an alternate theory for Magnetism could be Earth + Lighting + Wind, Earth and Lighting make metal and the spinning action from the wind could produce a magnetic field. Also I noticed you forgot to mention Jiga in your magnetic reasoning section. He seems to employ a similar style to the Third Kazekage.Umishiru (talk) 07:15, January 29, 2011 (UTC)

Metal, or even Steel with those is a decent theory. Not sure how wind fits into magnetism. I didn't list Jiga because his ability has to do with ingested iron. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 16:07, January 29, 2011 (UTC)

Considering how Kishi-sensei doesn't always use literal names, I was just throwing out an idea. I was kind of thinking, that the name "bloodline expansion", could just mean that it takes an advanced element, and "expand" on it, or give it new properties by combining it with a new element. That might, in a way, debunk "super" advanced elements, if you get what I am saying. I'm just mentioning those (Light, Plasma) just in case they don't work out. With two advanced element spots left, I think it's a good idea to play on the safe side. Cool Release, I was thinking something that could remove your chakra, as cooling things remove your heat energy. As for vapor, I guess the bubbles, yeah, but you never know what a Biju can do, really. Just think of all the weird things ninja could do, and then we found out natures were behind them, i.e. Yin-Yang. I'm just throwing out ideas. Now, thinking of In and Yō, I feel like we should think of them seperately, it seems like too much to handle together. But yeah, I get what your saying. Also, to help with the ideas, you might want to look at the advanced counterparts, like I mentioned, and think of what another element might do to it. And, in the case of Yin and Yang, think of adding Yin and Yang to the advanced element. So, let's see:

Yin, Wind, Fire: I guess, if you are adding form to hot air/fireballs, (Blaze is too controversial to add Wind to at the moment) I guess here, you could get Plasma, or even scorching hot liquid, more likely, I think.
Yin, Wind, Water: Super-dense ice, or a supersolid form of ice, with viscosity.
Yin, Wind, Lightning: Well, what could lightning do to sound? Maybe, it could be a sound that vibrates so much that it tears people apart. Wind and Darkness, I don't really see anything. I guess, a far stretch, singularities? (I might have other combos for this idea.) I actually Plasma as an idea here, as it is highly-ionized, hot gas. Though, Yang might fit for that.
Yin, Wind, Earth: Maybe, a really strong-structured crystal, like diamond. I'd say disintegration, but dust does that.
Yin, Fire, Lightning: Blaze, with an electric/magnetic charge, or even solar flares; Yin and Light would really be darkness, so I got nothing.
Yin, Fire, Earth: Liquid metal?
Yin, Fire, Water: Sublimation.
Yin, Lightning, Earth: I HATE LIGHTNING. TOO COMPLICATED.
Yin, Lightning, Water: Look above.
Yin, Earth, Water: Liquid crystal? (Lots of liquid here) Or Flora, or something like that.
Yang, Wind, Fire: Stormy, burning, wind. Like fiery tornadoes. Or, Radioactive Wind. (I really can't think of names right now, sorry.)
Yang, Wind, Water: Hurricane, or Tsunami.
Yang, Wind, Lightning: Singularities again. Thin of Wind and Lightning as Plasma (Because fire is a release of chemical energy), Yin changes form, you get black hole. Yang adds power, supernova, kaboom, black hole. Or something like, storm clouds. Or Positive lightning, which is far more devastating.
Yang, Wind, Earth: Desert? As in, extreme climate sand.
Yang, Fire, Lightning: Nuclear explosions. Definitely my favorite choice. :D Radiation + Lightning is just a dangerous combo, since Uranium and such have valence electrons, and are radioactive.
Yang, Fire, Earth: I guess, your Eruption Release would work here, too. Or Volcano/Eruptive Earth.
Yang, Fire, Water: Supercritical fluid, which is very. very hot, and lots of pressure.
Yang, Lightning, Earth: Here's comes Metal, finally.
Yang, Lightning, Water: Well, since water has surface tension and a slightly negative charge, why not make it magnetic, too?
Yang, Earth, Water: Ocean, like covering land with water. Or, Photosynthesis, to make chakra with sunlight. And you'd turn green, but if it works, why not?

Think of Yin-Yang + element, and it would make the stronger counterpart, if you think about it. Also, since we really don't know if Yin and Yang can be combined with other natures, I recommend thinking if these combos could work with the regular three element combos. I feel like the regular ones are more important than the Yin-Yang ones. Just my opinion. Oh, and I added some ideas to the top. Vik0z0z (talk) Kami da! 16:35, January 29, 2011 (UTC)

Ok, I have an idea for Yin, Lightning, and Earth/Water: Well, considering that Explosion Release releases explosive energy or of material, how about an Implosion Release? And, for water, I was thinking along the lines of gaseous energy (instead of fluid), or maybe Electrolysis, in the form of static-filled water, or something. Just ideas running through my head. Vik0z0z (talk) Kami da! 17:13, February 2, 2011 (UTC)

So, what do you think? Vik0z0z (talk) Kami da! 00:47, February 9, 2011 (UTC)

Some stuff is too physics to be a nature. Some others are already in the two nature combinations. The name also has to fit in Japanese. You have no idea how many ideas I went through in the stronger counterpart theory and tossed away because they're names didn't fit. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 00:52, February 9, 2011 (UTC)

Plasma Release - a mix of Fire, Wind and Lightning. According to wiki, plasma is a state which basically is formed through the intense heating of a gas molecule. Where: Wind --> Gas molecule, Fire --> Heat, Lightning --> Energy required to initiate this process.

I know someone suggested this prior to this, I refreshed on the page and noticed it. Man I'm slow at typing. However, it seems to make sense.

I based it on how Dust Release was formed. Earth --> Soil, Fire --> Heats the soil making it crusty/ashy --> Wind --> blows to make the dust.

-Chemistry/Naruto Nerd. —This unsigned comment was made by 99.247.41.117 (talkcontribs) .

There's no actual word for plasma in Japanese, and I'll likely use the closest thing in another combination, because of other connections. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 02:16, February 13, 2011 (UTC)

Sand Release

Now we know that the Dust Release is not formed of Earth and Wind. Could be considered the Sand Release as a possible combination? The Wind severely eroded Earth, producing Sand. --Leodix (Talk | Contributions) 07:34, January 30, 2011 (UTC)

I mentioned somewhere in a relevant talk page that with the revelation of Dust Release's status, Sand is the top contestant for this combination again. I don't think it fits due to previously explained mechanics of Gaara needing the take/make sand, but I'll be surprised if he doesn't shout Sand Release in the upcoming Kage battle or later. If Kishimoto suddenly revealed that Zabuza's sword had an ability after 500 chapters, and that Deidara had a kekkei genkai after 200, I think he's capable of doing this. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 15:34, January 30, 2011 (UTC)
Considering all of the retcon Kishi-sensei is doing, It think it is safe to say that Amaterasu might be Blaze after all. Which, might open up new thoughts on the components, I guess. Vik0z0z (talk) Kami da! 16:17, January 30, 2011 (UTC)
Retconning is going against previously explained canon. Kishimoto-sensei has not yet done this (at least in any serious manner). so far, he's merely been expanding on previously unexplained things. Gaara's sand could turn out to be a kekkei genkai nature — the Yonbi had one too, after all — and if it does turn out this way, his upcoming confrontation with his father would be the perfect time to reveal it. After all, Gaara's father and predecessor is there, who should have intimate knowledge of Gaara's abilities. —ShounenSuki (talk | contribs | translations) 19:00, January 30, 2011 (UTC)

My Idea

I Think that Smoke Release can be Fire+Wind+Yin. Before that Scorch Release is show, Smoke Release could be an advanced nature that need fire and wind to be form. Yin is energy and smoke if formed by the combustion of energy. Hope you will understand (and that I didn't make any mistake when I explain my Idea)--Alexdesta (talk) 09:28, January 30, 2011 (UTC)

A fitting theory. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 15:34, January 30, 2011 (UTC)

Affinity Matters

I was looking into your rebunked theories and I came up with something (quite foolish because of the number of possibilities that it will bring but oh well...)

My theory is based on the assumption that in a two element combination the affinity has a bigger influence than the second nature.

Let's look at Haku's Ice Release. It's created by combining Water and Wind natures. We don't know which one is Haku's affinity and which one is his second nature, but since he has shown a Water Release jutsu before and none from Wind, let's assume that Haku's affinity is Water. Meaning: Water (affinity) + Wind = Ice. (Plus, ice is water in a solid state, so that's where the water's bigger influence comes from.)

If we invert the natures, a new possibility appears. Wind (affinity) + Water = ??? (Likely a Bubble Release that would apply to Utakata, where the wind would have more influence than water). It's just an hypothesis that would fix the problems for Steel, Smoke and other possible releases. Nawirama13 (talk) 20:21, January 30, 2011 (UTC)

That would cause so many problems, it isn't even funny. Just saying. Vik0z0z (talk) Kami da! 20:29, January 30, 2011 (UTC)

I don't think it works that way. I think that when someone has an elemental kekkei genkai (or kekkei tōta), there isn't an affinity, at least not the way it happens with people in general. For example, we know Kakashi's affinity is lightning, and that Naruto's affinity is wind. We also know that affinities are genetic, as most Uchiha have an affinity towards fire. When someone has a kekkei genkai, I think that the advanced nature itself and the basic elements are the affinities. Taking Haku as an example. He has the Ice Release kekkei genkai. He's naturally predisposed to use Wind and Water because he has the Ice. I think that's more logical. Otherwise, it would be quite a coincidence that people just happen to use the elements required for an advanced nature if they had other elements as their affinities. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 20:31, January 30, 2011 (UTC)

I know the problems it would bring, I said at the beginning that it was quite foolish. Poor Omni would have to spend even more time on rebuilding the table... Indeed it does make more sense both being affinities.Nawirama13 (talk) 20:49, January 30, 2011 (UTC)

Problem is that its simultaneous fusion so Wind + Water is the same as Water + Wind. The bubble jutsu could be just water release. Though to be honest, I could see it being Water + Earth + Wind, Water absorbs the materials in the earth, and wind blows bubbles from this solution.Umishiru (talk) 14:23, January 31, 2011 (UTC)

More ideas.

Water + Lightning + Wind = Weather/Climate/Monsoon Release. Explains itself.

As for the Magnetism being Earth + Lightning + Wind, I got that from the fact that planetary bodies have a metal core and produce their fields through their rotations, the Wind could be what rotates the metal giving it an magnetic field.

Also Earth + Wind or Earth + Water + Wind could be Erosion/Weathering release. Water and Wind are both forces that wear down rocks. This wearing down action, almost like a acid, jutsu of this nature could shrink the sizes of people and jutsu, or general wear down the bonds of chakra over time, making the jutsu launched at a Weathering release user, look as if it of fading as a it gets closer. Example could be user launches a Lava release jutsu and, using a Erosion release, the lava jutsu could suddenly break up into fire and Earth or just fades away or just turn back into chakra.

Wind + Fire + Lighting, could be another way to make Plasma release, with Wind bumping up Fire and being converted into plasma when hit or merged with Lighting or it could be a Ion Release. Or instead a Energy release.Umishiru (talk) 14:33, January 31, 2011 (UTC)

Water + Fire + Wind could be Temperature Release, Water for cooling, fire for heating and Wind to assist in the temperature shifts.Umishiru (talk) 16:30, January 31, 2011 (UTC)

Earth + Water + Yang could be Nature Release, I have noticed (correct me if I am wrong) that Wood Release seems to produce Bonsai tree and wood, so Nature release would allow the user the use of other plants and trees. Plus as we saw, Wood release is very reactant to Yang Chakra.

Earth + Water + Yin could be Swamp release, which would be jutsu that creates and uses vines and such instead of tree wood.Umishiru (talk) 17:04, January 31, 2011 (UTC)

On the weather, it's an idea. Maybe I'll search for a more technical term and use that, but it'll probably go along that line. The one problem with erosion/weathering is that Dust Release already does that up to eleven. Swamp and Nature are attractive ideas, though a "nature nature" sounds weird. Maybe I'll recycle the Forest Release idea for that one. The one problem with swamp is that we already have an Earth Release technique which creates a swamp already. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 17:36, January 31, 2011 (UTC)

What about the Temperature Release? Another way of saying it is Wind cools water and Fire heats the water.

Earth + Water + Yin could be Bog or Marsh release, same description as Swamp release.

Lighting + Earth + Yin/Wind could be Sprite release. Sprites are are triggered by the discharges of positive lightning between an underlying thundercloud and the ground and are cold plasma events. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sprite_(lightning)

Also on your Light release, you could call it Photon Release which caries high amount of energy in a small volume. Light release would be more like a small package carrying a big explosion/discharge.Umishiru (talk) 20:22, January 31, 2011 (UTC)

Also since you need an another name for Nature, you could just tie it in with Flora release, which I see you have made since Nature and Flora release are similar.Umishiru (talk) 20:24, January 31, 2011 (UTC)

There's one thing bugging me though. That would be like a stronger Wood Release. From what we've seen of a three-way combination, it's not one nature changing a previous mix. Dust isn't lava mixed with wind, it's earth and fire mixed with wind. Flora or something like that would feels yang plus wood, not yang plus earth and water. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 00:41, February 1, 2011 (UTC)

Hmm, since you already have Flora, how about Wood + Yin = Marsh/Bog release.

Water + Earth + Yang = Nutrient release, being that the user a kill the target by drain them of certain nutrients, like calcium and now the target bones are brittle or per, Another could again a Nature release but rather than Fauna, the user can create other forms of life perhaps microbes, a Disease release, but that would be more of a Water + Earth + Yin. The idea is that Water and earth mix into a solution and depending on which one you get different results, with Yin, one produces plague and disease and with Yang one produces essiential life chemicals. If we're leaving that route, some along a Supersolid or Superfluid. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supersolid http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SuperfluidUmishiru (talk) 01:01, February 1, 2011 (UTC)

It could still be adding an element to kekkei genkai. The 3rd Tsuchikage might have 2 of them just like Mei does. If that's true and if Kishi does decide to introduce a sand element then I could see dust being sand + fire. It would make more sense than lava + wind or scorch + earth. What do you think? Oh and what do you think about a grass element?--Red-kun (talk) 01:06, February 1, 2011 (UTC)

I think you're thinking into something that is too specific. And what I said above about the nature of three element combo prevents me from speculating on something such as Wood and Yang. I'll narrow the scope of this speculation to three way mixing of the seven basic natures: fire, wind, lightning, earth, water, yin, and yang. Disease reminds me of ShounenSuki's suggestion for stronger smoke, Miasma Release. It's in the debunked theory section. Grass is encompassed by Wood Release. On something not Naruto-related, but still related to this, I found a rather interesting game, and as long as you're not using IE, you should have no problems playing it, it uses html5, so you'd have to use the beta or a platform preview of IE9. Check this out. It took me a couple days, but I got them all. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 01:14, February 1, 2011 (UTC)

By they way, the game is partially the reason why I might consider Cloud Release (雲遁, Unton) as the product of Fire, Water, and Wind. Clouds are evaporated water particles suspended in the air. My first choice would be Steam Release (蒸遁, Jōton), but since Han uses steam already, and he needs a furnace to provide it, I don't think that would be a nature. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 17:05, February 1, 2011 (UTC)

Only thing I can think of for Earth + Water+ Yang are Supersolid, Superliquid, and Island. As for that game, I played it months ago. Umishiru (talk) 17:13, February 2, 2011 (UTC)

Fifty new elements were added recently. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 00:41, February 3, 2011 (UTC)

I'll try it out later today then.

Also an idea, Wind + Fire + Water could be the Miasma release you were talking about, a Smog release would fit as well, also a Gas release sounds good, we know that Fire heat Water to a gaseous state which is then spread out by the air.

Ice + Yang could be something along the lines of free flowing ice, like with Toshiro Hitsugaya, basically Ice that flowed and moved like water.

Lighting + Earth + Yang could be a Gravity release,we know lighting/electricity can give its properties to earth/metal and through Yin its pull is increased to all objects, aka gravity, instead of magnetic objects since gravity is proportional to mass, and being Yang has to do with the physical. So basically, magnetic properties of lighting transfered to earth, which is expand by Yang to include non-magnetic objects, and changes the power of the pull to mass rather than magnetic.

Water + Earth + Yin could be Wave release, the atoms of Water basically begins to act like a wave instead of a particle and flows up containers on its own due to zero viscosity, when spun ina container(chakra) forms a Quantum vortex. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_vortex http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wave http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bose–Einstein_condensate

Or instead, Supersolid which is basically a solid with zero viscosity and flows like water. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supersolid

Also on the Crystal release, it could also be a result of supercooling with is when a Liquid or gas cools so fast to below freezing point it doesn't freeze buts instead when introduced to a another substance, begins to crystallize. This could make Crystal Release Earth + Water + Wind/Yin, as the water goes through rapid cooling, it latches on to earth or a solid substance and begins to crystallize and form crystals. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SupercoolingUmishiru (talk) 06:25, February 4, 2011 (UTC)

I'm not thinking combinations of advanced natures here, so no stuff like Yang Ice. Gravity would be a good idea if Rinnegan hadn't used it already. I think your thinking too much physics here, considering the "physics" we've seen in the series, I think the superfluids and supersolids are a bit much. I won't use wave here. I'll only recycle a two element combo idea when it has been disproved. Try thinking symbolically or semantically. Water and lightning making storm was a somewhat logical idea, maybe we can try that line of thought. For Wind, Water, and Lightning, I'm considering a Sky/Heaven Release. Just not sure of which kanji to use. The one we see in Gaara's Sky Sand Wall technique, or the one in Chibaku Tensei. I still need to see exactly what is the difference in meaning, to see what fits better. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 01:31, February 5, 2011 (UTC)

http://www.tribalshapes.com/categories/kanji/kanji-sky-heaven.htmlUmishiru (talk) 21:18, February 5, 2011 (UTC)

A few ideas came to mind:

First off, advanced chakra-natures: I won't say delve into these (blaze, black lightning) since they could just be a coincidence and haven't officially been invented yet.

chakra nature combinations: earth + wind = sand release (no explanation needed)Probable users: 4th Kazekage/Gaara. The 3rd Kazekage tried to artificially create this element.

Wind + lightning = sound release (by your explanation) Probable users: Unknown Kumo nin. Since Orochimaru was trying to learn every technique, I think just like the 3rd Kazekage and the one-tail's sand, Orochimaru was trying to artificially create an advanced element, by using those things the sound ninja had in their arms.

I want to know what you think about this idea, fire + lightning = sear release. Burning or scorching the surface of something (or someone) with a sudden (lightning), intense heat (fire). The appearance of storm release is a literal combination of both water and lightning, the same could apply for this yet-to-be-revealed nature. The outcome could result in something similar to the blue flames of the 2 tailed monster-cat. Probable users: I have no base for this one but I'm to guess anyway just for fun, the shaded out guy who was standing next to Chiyo when Chukichi asked them for back-up, just like how the Kumo-nin wasn't there with Zabuza's team, this guy wasn't with Chiyo's team when they confronted Kankuro's team. The both of them are most likely regrouping somewhere else with another team. You can see him in chapter 521 on page 5.

Advanced chakra-nature combinations (kekkei tota): I was thinking about an energy release. By combining the 3 natures of energy (fire, wind, and lightning)the user gains the ability to create and manipulate all forms of energy.

Fire + wind + water = Your cloud release theory sounds similar to Hiruko's version of storm release, maybe Kishi will do something with that.

Fire + lightning + earth = steel release, based on your theory but when the word metal comes to mind I usually think about smelting so I added fire in.

Fire + lightning + water = I don't have an idea for this one.

Fire + earth + water = crystal release, based on another theory I read.

Wind + lightning + earth = I really want to put down magnetism for this but the only thing stopping me from doing so is that it was stated that the 3rd Kazekage was born with this ability, although we don't have enough info on kekkei tota so I'll keep this here.

Wind + lightning + water = I don't have an idea for this one.

Wind + earth + water = I'd say clay or stone but those sound too similar to earth. So I'll count this as a "no idea".

Lightning + earth + water = I don't have an idea for this one.

Lol sorry about taking up so much space, I just needed to get that off my mind. What do you think?--Red-kun (talk) 15:24, February 8, 2011 (UTC)

Don't worry about black lightning at the moment. The one named black lightning technique was named a simple Lightning Release. When Darui calls it something similar, yet different from lightning, then I'll consider maiming someone. I expect sand to be that as well, and I even have a theory to explain its differences from usual "chakra into element" conversion that we haven't seen working with sand. I'm still keeping Sound as Yin Wind for the moment, but I think I have that as a backup theory, either at the combination wind and lightning, or at the Sound Release entry itself. Your Sear Release idea sounds exactly like Scorch Release. I haven't changed it out of hope that Light Release turns out to be it (and a bit of pride), but I think Lightning and Fire will turn out to be Explosion. I'm trying to think something up like the blue flames for a Fire + Yin or Yang + something else combination, but I don't find a good Japanese name for it. I already list Metal as fire + lightning + earth. I didn't list Steel because it is movie-only and it was explicitly called a kekkei genkai, so for a kekkei tōta, I had to use something else. Crystal is still something I'll keep in the two combo if I can. I put down Magnetism as Yang Lightning. Like Crystal, if I can keep a theory in the two-element combination section, I won't move it to the three-element one. I'm sort of considering putting a Sky/Heaven nature for wind + lightning + water. Agree on stone and clay ideas. Still no idea on that last combination as well. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 18:42, February 8, 2011 (UTC)

"Fire + earth + water = crystal release" - when I read this I was thinking "why water? Crystal it's a pure solid element". Then it hit me: Glass Release. Glass is a material made of sand (and a few elements) which was first heated (in 1200-1300 ° C) in order to gain a liquid state and after its formation then cooled to solid state. And there you have it: sand - earth, heating - fire, liquid state/cooling - water. You can ask: What are the differences between glass and crystal? It's easy - by just manipulating the crystal you get a solid state, but when it comes to glass the user can receive both solid and liquid states. geohound (talk) 14:11, February 13, 2011 (UTC)

Yin-Yang

Would a Bloodline Limit Of Yin-Yang Release and another element be the same as a Bloodline Expansion of Yin, Yang and the other Nature?--Nintendo-Fan (talk) 00:27, February 1, 2011 (UTC)Nintendo-Fan

I wouldn't say that there is a kekkei genkai mixing Yin-Yang Release because Yin-Yang itself is already a mixture. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 00:38, February 1, 2011 (UTC)

I think Omi is stay away from Yin-Yang Release do to it complicated nature. Perhaps when Kish reveals more about the nature in general. Btw, Yin-Yang is one element so combine it with another is a two element combination not three.Umishiru (talk)

Concerning Gaara

Whenever Gaara has used sand jutsu, has the -ton prefix ever been used. I think sand style is jutsu a form of wind release.

Another idea, Mercury release. I was reading past convos and thought of it. I know your focusing on 3 element combinations but it could be Water + Metal, Fire + Metal(heat melts metal), Lava + Metal(same as previous, and if you want it in 3 combination form then, Earth + Lighting + Water. Basically liquid metal.Umishiru (talk) 17:01, February 7, 2011 (UTC)

Gaara has never used the -ton suffix when using sand techniques, which is why up to the revelation of Dust Release status' as a Kekkei Tōta, I never considered the possibility of it being a nature. The thing you're doing with Mercury that I'll never do is use an advanced element as a basic component. Anything that isn't Yin, Yang or the other basic five isn't a building block as far as I'm concerned. Mercury is an idea, and I might consider it if I don't find a better combination, though in theory, that also works for fire, lightning and water. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 17:08, February 7, 2011 (UTC)
I don't think it will ever be an element since he is never shown turning chakra into sand but using chakra to manipulate existing sand and crush rock to make more. If it turns out to be an element is will be a oxymoron and rewrite the rules somewhat.I say its just a style of wind jutsu. Well Metal + Yang could be Mercury release or just an alternate for a stronger varaitions like you have on the steel/metal relationship. Explaim the Fire + Water + Lighting.Umishiru (talk) 17:21, February 7, 2011 (UTC)
Gaara never showed the ability to create sand out of chakra, as other natures have been created, and there is one technique Gaara used in one of his Shukaku transformation that uses sand, and was explicitly called a Wind Release. The only two things which support the idea of there being a Sand Release (砂遁, Saton) is that earth + wind = sand makes sense, and that there is a precedent for a tailed beast granting use of an advanced nature, that being the Four-Tails and Lava Release. Like I said, I won't use non-basic natures as building blocks. Sorry, I meant earth, lightning and water. Lightning purifies earth into ore, which takes on the liquid property from water becoming mercury. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 17:25, February 7, 2011 (UTC)

>.> Thats what I said earlier, Earth + Lighting + Water, still thinking on the other one though. On a side note, Wind + Lighting could be a ion release, basically Lighting that is as spread out as air, I'm thinking users turns into lighting disspates in teh air and reforms somewhere else.Umishiru (talk) 17:31, February 7, 2011 (UTC)

Also on the Mercury release I am thinking symbolically. Mercury release would give the user to liquify thing we normally don't see in a liquid state, ex. metal, rock, and so on. limiting it to solid mass objects.Umishiru (talk) 17:41, February 7, 2011 (UTC)

So basically this. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 17:56, February 7, 2011 (UTC)

Yep, basically.Umishiru (talk) 18:50, February 7, 2011 (UTC)

A problem with sand being an advanced nature is that there is one B-ranked technique. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 15:41, February 13, 2011 (UTC)

Blaze Release

It could be Fire + Lighting + Yin.Umishiru (talk) 17:04, February 10, 2011 (UTC)

Two element combinations

Two element combinations table is missing Wind+Earth element. I was thinking about it since yesterday and only one think comes in my mind (beside Sand Release of course) - gravity! I know that Pain was using something like that but imo it was more like pressure manipulation than gravity. There is one technique that can be related to my theory - Onoki's unamed technique (and Onoki can use both Wind and Earth). So I would say Gravity Release (or it could be Pressure Release if someone will stick to Pain's "gravity manipulation"). geohound (talk) 12:26, February 11, 2011 (UTC)

It doesn't seem like a strong connection between the elements. Anything gravity related would relate to Yin and Yang for me. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 18:51, February 11, 2011 (UTC)
I'm not sure about that Yin and Yand thing. About my teory: "Gravitation (or gravity) is a natural phenomenon by which physical bodies (earth) attract with a force (wind) proportional to their mass.". When I am thinking about gravity I see a planet and it's atmosphere. "An atmosphere is a layer of gases that may surround a material body of sufficient mass, and that is held in place by the gravity of the body." It's like a "bubble" of gases (like air which is connected to wind). I don't know if I made myself clear but I hope you undertand my point. geohound (talk) 13:54, February 12, 2011 (UTC)

Wind + Earth could be Mineral Release, we know that the earth is essentially made up of various mineral, while a Earth or sand users can use them to form shapes, a Mineral Release user would be able to use the properties of whatever mineral.Umishiru (talk) 02:41, February 14, 2011 (UTC)

It sounds more like advanced Earth (or even Crystal) chakra. But I can't see Wind here geohound (talk) 10:03, February 14, 2011 (UTC)

Wind separates the earth, to allow the user to focus on a particular mineral, like a strainer and can weather down rock to obtain a mineral.Umishiru (talk) 14:37, February 14, 2011 (UTC)

I don't get how wind turns earth into mineral. By mineral, I mean something like ore. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 22:54, February 14, 2011 (UTC)

Well, the wind could apply pressure or use erosion to pick out the other minerals.Umishiru (talk) 00:36, February 16, 2011 (UTC)

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