Hi, Elveonora. I'm sorry that this is months late, but as you have noted, I have not been here for a while. However, be assured, as I have dropped in occasionally to observe progress; I've just been quite busy with studies and work, but you are also right about me somewhat giving up on Naruto - It's not entirely true, as I have enjoyed the series, but I had to lay off for a bit because my expectations and attachments had become too large. Of course, I have also been following the series, and while there were large disappointments along the way, I feel alright with how it ended.
I had also been working as a translator for the Korean webcomic series Tower of God, so that was also a thing that had me occupied.
To try and answer your questions:
- I still personally feel like black lightning was meant to be the Lightning variant of Amaterasu. Seeing how the recent databook translations by Seelentau have revealed Amaterasu and Blaze Release to just be a stronger modified Fire, I'd imagine that black lightning was intended to be a stronger Lightning Release in a similar manner.
- My current guess for "Magnet Release" is that it isn't the simplest form of magnetism that we imagine. While magnetism falls under it, I'm guessing that the "磁" may have been expanded to include "forces" (all that Naruto science) that move other metallic or earthen materials. As far as I'm aware, gold is only weakly diamagnetic as well, but it was controlled on almost the same scale as iron sand was. In conclusion, I believe that this is just like the Lava, Storm and Boil Releases in that its name isn't always literally what it does (I was always a fan of the "The nature name is only symbolic" thing.). While unconfirmed, I believe that the appearance of Magnetism+sand on Sage Art: Super Tailed Beast Ball Rasenshuriken is good evidence for believing that that is how sand is manipulated.
- I have no choice but to concede to Kishi's classification of Blaze Release. One of the minor reasons for my leave was because coming here too often twisted and limited my thoughts, and I often found clarity when I had ceased rambling on in a hurry to fill ideas. At this stage, considering the general connotation of the character "炎" (flame) in Japanese, Chinese and Korean, it makes the most sense for it to be a stronger Fire, and nothing more. I would, however, still assume that "Blaze" is Sharingan-based, since I don't imagine Sasuke using it without the dōjutsu. However, we'll probably never know.
- The pattern theory (if true at all) requires that that Wind+Lightning be "Wind modified by Lightning" or "Wind with properties of Lightning", so as long as your interpretation of Magnetism agrees with this, it seems possible to not disagree. However, I would personally stick to Lightning+Earth, although I have no idea how Kishi views Magnetism.
- (Of course, the recent revelation that it's highly likely to be Earth+Wind kills our discussion, I suppose.)
- I was once a proponent of the idea that Fire+Lightning=Blaze, because I felt that lightning's charged plasma nature would "enhance" fire to produce solar plasma, which in this case was expressed as black flames (because Kishi thinks black fire looks cool). In an alternative interpretation, Amaterasu is only fire, but so hot that it's charged - Lightning thus allows one to manipulate it. (Not that any of this is valid anymore, seeing the recent classifications.) If this was true, however, it would not disagree with the pattern theory.
I just travelled quite a bit as a child, so I was able to loosely learn a few languages during my earlier life. I certainly don't think that it's anything special, and even if it was a talent, we all have that in some area. Now, onto Naruto-related business:
- I would feel better about Blaze and Black Lightning if the "strengthening" was just caused by a combination with Yin or Yang. However, Darui and the Third Raikage were not recorded as users of Yin or Yang, so that seems unlikely. Seems like we do need to go with the "stronger version" idea, unless Black Lightning is not really like Amaterasu. Perhaps Gengetsu's oil-like water could be a similar sort of "stronger version".
- My current idea for Magnet Release is that the Wind nature represents an invisible force that acts on objects from a distance, causing them to float, as seen in the Ice and Scorch natures. If floating ice panels and floating fireballs can be created, it seems that Magnet Release controlling floating earth (sand, metals) is possible. If so, then the name "Magnet" would just be symbolism for forces that move earthen materials and Magnet Release would encompass both normal magnetism (for iron sand, Toroi's technique) and other unspecified forces (for gold dust, sand). This new definition would be okay with my pattern theory, as Earth would still enhance Wind (to make an invisible earth-controlling force, similar to my "solidified air" theory for sand) and the result would be "opposite" to Lightning, possibly meaning that Lightning and Magnetism oppose each other (Lightning would revert Magnetism to Wind, according to the pattern theory).
- While we tend to think of magnets as being related to electricity in modern times (electromagnetism), it is likely that people in old times didn't know about the relationship, and simply believed magnets to be rocks that could push other rocks with this mysterious pressure (that's what it feels like when I play with magnets, anyway), so perhaps Kishimoto's combination makes sense. I support the idea that the natures are named in a traditional manner, while the effects of the Releases' techniques are more technical. (I use Storm as strong evidence of that.) It's true that the Naruto world has advanced technology, but I think most of the technique names are named in ways that invoke old-language uses.
- Of course, the above is just my theory and for now, we should not label any of Gaara's techniques as Magnet Release in my opinion. Kishimoto has occasionally redefined things (like Amaterasu) but until such a move is made, it seems that sand-based techniques should remain considered non-elemental.
- I personally liked it better when the Tailed Beast Skills were just unique abilities, with Son being the only one possessing an advanced nature. However, I did share your idea that the Tailed Beasts, Ten-Tails included, would have the ten natures, when it was revealed that Shukaku had Magnet Release (and consequently Kokuō with Boil). I always did feel that Wood's mysterious relation to Tailed Beasts was a hint of sorts, and I suppose that the Shinju cleared that up. I don't know if Kishimoto is actually going to follow through with our expectations (since he's great at that), but if I was forced to match them up, I'd say the following (I don't have strong confidence in them, at all):
- Isobu would have Ice. I can imagine it using ice mirrors, since Yagura used the Water Release: Water Mirror Technique.
- Gyūki's beam-like techniques in video games seem similar to Storm Release to me, so it seems okay to guess that Gyūki has Storm. The octopus-like shape could explain the Water component. The ink might also be symbolically connected to dark storm clouds (reminiscent of the movie's usage of Storm).
- Chōmei would have my Wind+Lightning combination, a super-vibration sort of nature, since insect wings do that. Wind+Lightning also reminds me of light, and that might connect to the insect scales.
- Kurama is a nine-tailed fox, which also bears connections to ghostly fire, and could have Scorch. Otherwise, Explosion would be my guess, given Kurama's connection to disasters. I suppose it could trade Explosion for the Wind+Lightning I gave to Chōmei.
- Matatabi would be given Explosion... for now. Ideally, it would be given Scorch, due to its being a bakeneko and its relation to ghostly fire. (I actually want to give it Dark Release due to using ghostly blue flames, but I must hold off unless Dark is shown to be canon.)
- Saiken... since Earth+Lightning failed to be Magnet, it might be something that has a connection to alkaline substances (since they're earthen and can explode), but this is a weak theory. If Earth enhances Lightning, it might form a different kind of force that can turn earth into a soapy or alkaline substance. If I recall correctly, my theory on Soap Bubble Ninjutsu was that it combined Saiken's natural alkali and Utakata's Water nature. It's possible now that the natural alkali is this unexpected combination. Then, just like how Deidara combines Explosion (Fire+Lightning?) and Earth to make Exploding Clay, Utakata would combine "Alkali" (Earth+Lightning?) and Water to make his special soap bubbles.
- Anyway, that was just me rambling, since I haven't thought too deeply about it, so don't trust that it's my final thoughts on everything. Again, I don't quite strongly believe in it. As for the pattern theory, it's still alive for me; I'll just need to update it when I actually have time.
If you would like to know what I want from Naruto now, I simply want closure regarding this elemental matter, because it's a big part of why I got into Naruto in the first place. I was curious about how Kishimoto saw these elements, and I just need that to be wrapped up.
- 1. I would like Crystal, Dark, Steel and Swift to be introduced as official in some side material for consistency. For me, Crystal would be a kekkei tōta (No one knew about it, so kekkei genkai seems unlikely, and kekkei tōta are considered to be much rarer, which fits Guren's condition for me). Dark, Steel and Swift were mentioned to be kekkei genkai, but Kishimoto might change his mind. I feel like Dark's ability to absorb other natures might place it apart, although I wanted it to be a combination involving Fire (Fire+Wind, long time ago). I would like Steel to be an enhanced Earth (black earth, just like black fire and lightning) instead of a kekkei genkai, but it could be Earth+Lightning (Pattern theory survives only if Steel changes Earth into Steel and does not produce any Steel on its own). Since 迅雷 (jinrai) means "thunder", I would like Swift (迅) to be Wind+Lightning (which I gave a placeholder name "Thunderclap") if it used super-vibrating slashes or sonic waves instead of just speeding the user up.
- 2. If the above does not happen, have the movie villain or other characters use a single technique for each of the remaining natures. Kishimoto is much more involved in this upcoming movie, so he should have the ability to have characters use two simple techniques. Even if it's used by random unnamed ninja fighting in an opening scene, we would know that these new natures were approved by Kishimoto. I certainly don't count on it, but if he does, we can simply take those two and Explosion and fit them to Earth+Lightning, Wind+Lightning, and Fire+Lightning.
That was a bit long, but since I've been away for a while, I might as well tell someone my thoughts.
I spend most of my free time with my friends if possible, and since I spend a most of my time studying, almost all remaining time goes to connecting with people. I'm not a sports or gaming guy. I enjoy most kinds of movies, especially sci-fis and thrillers. My translating work is also non-paid and is more of a hobby to keep practicing my Korean (chatting in Korean is no problem, but more difficult words require constant use). Be assured, I am obviously nowhere close to superhuman, and certainly not above anyone else. Why don't you tell me a little about yourself next time? I might not be back for a while, though, haha. --GoDai (talk) 12:55, November 30, 2014 (UTC)
- ^ If you can. --Sajuuk [Moderator] Talk Page | Contribs | Channel 23:06, December 17, 2014 (UTC)
- ^ If possible dude. --Sajuuk [Moderator] Talk Page | Contribs | Channel 17:19, January 7, 2015 (UTC)
- ^ And again. --Sajuuk [Moderator] talk | contribs | Channel 22:51, January 20, 2015 (UTC)
- It was about something else actually... --Sajuuk [Moderator] talk | contribs | Channel 22:54, January 20, 2015 (UTC)
- ^ And again. --Sajuuk [Moderator] talk | contribs | Channel 22:51, January 20, 2015 (UTC)
- ^ If possible dude. --Sajuuk [Moderator] Talk Page | Contribs | Channel 17:19, January 7, 2015 (UTC)
- Able to join chat? --Sajuuk [Moderator] talk | contribs | Channel 21:22, February 2, 2015 (UTC)
Just was wondering based on your comments. For the record I'm Catholic, but I'm not going to interfere with you; Sajuuk already removed my question.Gemnist (talk) 00:40, December 26, 2014 (UTC)Gemnist
Sorry for replying so late. I must have skimmed over your comment. The databook neither says Oro can, nor cannot, specifically. It only mentions White Zetsu as a user. However, by doing a little bit of digging into the Living Corpse Reincarnation, and it doesn't mention anything about Orochimaru modifying his body to make it look like the original. The possessed body takes on his form automatically. This was shown with Genryuumaru, Oro's host prior to his attempt on Sasuke. The manual modifying, thought to be done by Orochimaru, and possibly his Vanishing Facial Copy Technique, is technically speculation.--KotoTalk Page-My Contributions 05:35, January 2, 2015 (UTC)
Elveo, I've corrected my mistake. I paid a little too much attention to how Oro looked like a Zetsu version of himself immediately after possessing the body of a parasite clone. In that, I was probably acting in bias. That's my fault. Thank you for correcting me.--KotoTalk Page-My Contributions 19:00, January 2, 2015 (UTC)
Sorry for my late reply, for this week. Yeah, Naruto and Pokemon anime resumes to be aired. And you're welcome, I personally liked the idea of today's episode :) —Shakhmoot (Talk) 12:30, January 8, 2015 (UTC)
Re: old hamura
- Here: http://imgur.com/Nr6zGBF --Hisana456 (talk) 13:56, January 10, 2015 (UTC)
Re: Jin no Sho English
Those nature releases that I just reverted edits on come from non-canonical sources so cannot be classified as being a "Kekkei Genkai". Those edits are actually speculation added by the user, unless you can link me to any valid source that claims them as being such. --Sajuuk [Moderator] talk | contribs | Channel 16:35, January 20, 2015 (UTC)
- It's likely a mistake in the articles as, unless a databook or character physically stated that they're a kekkei genkai (which nobody said for the Crystal Release), it's technically speculative in nature and should be removed. --Sajuuk [Moderator] talk | contribs | Channel 16:38, January 20, 2015 (UTC)
Re: I suppose
- Nope. The special chapter isn't included, not sure about the interview. • Seelentau 愛 議 21:36, January 22, 2015 (UTC)
re: jin no sho
- Here. How did you know I had it though? -- WindStar7125 (talk | contribs) 22:16, January 22, 2015 (UTC)
re: tailed beast genders
Re: Kaguya advanced natures
As I said seconds ago, she doesn't have the Kekkei Genkai thingy in her profile, even though she uses the Byakugan. This either means that her Byakugan is no Kekkei Genkai, or it means that they forgot to add it. But even if they forgot to add it, it doesn't mean that she has more than Byakugan as a Kekkei Genkai. Furthermore, we don't even know if Storm Release came from the tailed beasts. Madara simply had it, without any further explanation or anything. Then, for the tailed beasts' kekkei genkai, I'm not sure. We need some definitive proof that someone who absorbs the tailed beasts like Madara and Obito did, gains their abilities as well.
On another note, there's a digital version of the databook coming out, labeled as Version 2 on iTunes. So we might see some corrections, hopefully. • Seelentau 愛 議 00:36, January 26, 2015 (UTC)
- Why are you always ignoring the most crucial points? Kaguya isn't the origin of the tailed beast, the Ten-Tails is. Furthermore, the simple fact that Hagoromo split the chakra and changed the parts to something entirely new, changed everything. The beasts could've easily gained their Kekkei Genkai only at that point, because they didn't possess blood or anything before, being pure chakra and all (or even more, pure natural energy).
- If Madara really gained the Storm Release through one of the tailed beasts, then why was no beast ever attributed with it? I know that the absence is no evidence, but it's something that needs to be taken into consideration. • Seelentau 愛 議 00:55, January 26, 2015 (UTC)
- Yes, but as I said, did everyone who absorbed the tailed beasts (Obito, Madara, Naruto) gain access to all their natures? If so, why didn't everyone use them? Obito didn't use one special nature, Madara used Storm Release which we can't safely attribute to a tailed beast, only Naruto gained access to their powers because the tailed beasts allowed him to. So if it's the case that the jinchuriki needs their beast's approval, then it might just simply be that Kaguya didn't get that approval. • Seelentau 愛 議 14:52, January 26, 2015 (UTC)
Re: periods/timeskips question
- Why? We'd list it after The Last, under a different headline or so. I think we did that in Sasuke's article. • Seelentau 愛 議 15:45, January 31, 2015 (UTC)
Re: Jin no Sho version 2
- -no illegal links-. I didn't find any correction so far. • Seelentau 愛 議 22:57, February 3, 2015 (UTC)
- They did correct the mistake in Sasuke's profile, where it says "Kakashi attacks Naruto" instead of "Sasuke attacks Naruto". Other than that, nothing so far. Danzo still doesnt have Summoning or Yin Release, Madara isn't listed as an Izanagi user and is the only user of Kanseitai - Susanoo. Anything else? • Seelentau 愛 議 23:16, February 3, 2015 (UTC)
- There's nothing about Kaguya, or at least it hasn't been posted yet. • Seelentau 愛 議 13:52, February 5, 2015 (UTC)
- I can only tell you what I told those guys at NF: Gratitude doesn't help me pay my internet connection. Also, I have other hobbies, so yeah. • Seelentau 愛 議 23:45, February 5, 2015 (UTC)
- I thought about it, but I have no idea how much money would be a good price for how much work. I also don't like to make a hobby my job, because whenever I absolutely have to do it, I tend not to do it at all. And no, never. Although I might be working soon, so I'll probably have to reduce playing it. • Seelentau 愛 議 23:56, February 5, 2015 (UTC)
Re: Hey, you
Yeah, it has been awhile hasn't it? You always know where I am, man. Kirin's got a alternate origin story for Kaguya and the Otsutsuki Clan going right now, but it isn't really picking up any speed. He and I are just have discussions back and forth on different topics. You are more than welcome to just stop by some time and hit me up on my wall. Let me know if there is anything you want to talk about. Omega64 狐 (talk) 21:14, February 4, 2015 (UTC)
I agree, fanon really isn't my cup of tea either. He's trying to really push a comment on it, but I just can't get into Kaguya's character at all. I'd rather create a different scenario without her completely. We can talk about Hashirama's cells and Izanagi if you want, just come on over. Omega64 狐 (talk) 21:51, February 4, 2015 (UTC)
Pardon my nosiness, but I saw Omega on Narutopedia, and so I just got very curious (you know how he isn't much of a fan of this wiki over Naruto Answers). Concerning my Kaguya story, it's not so much fanon as opposed to an actual theory of Kaguya's back story. After all, I didn't really change anything and I even said the entire purpose of the story was to provide an explanation about elements in the series that weren't further expanded upon. The only real fanon part would be the addition of an original character that I created, but even then, he could easily be cut out. I just included him because he added a bit more to Kaguya's character and I was having fun writing the story, so I figured why not. Honestly, the story I wrote has more canon elements than it does fanon elements. It really is an explanation to the history of the shinobi world that Kishimoto didn't write. Just wanted to point that out since I saw my name be brought up.--KirinNOTKarin98 (talk) 03:04, February 7, 2015 (UTC)
- If you don't mind me asking, what elements are those? If it's the fact that the Otsutsuki doesn't come from an alternate dimension, I believe I explained that I did that because it was never explicitly stated in the manga, only in the databook. So until it is either in the manga or the databook is translated to where I can read it for myself, I decided not to include that fact for multiple reasons (which I do believe I explained). Was there anything else that contradicts the manga canon?--KirinNOTKarin98 (talk) 16:30, February 7, 2015 (UTC)
Re: Tailed Beast KKG and Jinchuuriki
I believe they're listed as Kekkei Genkai user because they can access the kekkei genkai of their tailed beasts. I'm not 100% convinced that Roshi has Lava Release as his own kekkei genkai, but I think he could access Yonbi's kekkei genkai as well. Naruto is friends with all tailed beasts anyway, so he can use their chakra as he wants, they wouldnt refuse it. Gaara, on the other hand, could not use Shukaku's chakra, because it hated him. Or so I think. But as I said in the thread, there's no definitie and clear answer to all of this, so a discussion is more or less pointless. • Seelentau 愛 議 22:39, February 4, 2015 (UTC)
- Yes, the wording does that. Or maybe he had the kekkei genkai and Yonbi helped him awaken it or whatever. • Seelentau 愛 議 22:46, February 4, 2015 (UTC)
Do you know how Naruto has Yin release? because according to DB icons he doesn't have it see Naruto and also Sasuke doesn't have Yang release. One assumption is that Rinnegan and Truth Seeking Ball grants all release so is it true? I know the Truth Seeking ball are at least 4 nature elemental release, so is it really possible that Truth-Seeking Ball granted him Yin release. My guess is that he lacks one and according to FF-Suzaku the databook says Hagoromo grants Yin-Yang release, so couldn't it be possible that the ability Hagoromo gave them is to use this technique simultaneously i.e. Naruto's Yang Release and Sasuke's Yin release make Six Paths Chibaku Tensei a Yin-Yang Release. One explanation I got for Naruto's YYR is that his healing ability is one and he created the eye from nothing (yin) and he used Yang release to connect nerves, but it is also possible that the whole eye can be created from Kakashi's body cells (Naruto said he made the eyes from Kakashi's body in manga). Please take a look on my talkpage WindStar and I already had a discussion about this, what is correct?--Naruto uzu6254 (talk) 18:27, February 5, 2015 (UTC)
Re: volume 72 tankobon
- Oh, why didn't you say so? :D I don't know about volume, 71, but the changes in 72 are this and this, as well as this. • Seelentau 愛 議 21:27, February 6, 2015 (UTC)
- /shrug. -- WindStar7125 (talk | contribs) 09:46, February 7, 2015 (UTC)
- Can't see the image, whatever you're trying to show me. What chapter was it in?
- EDIT: Never mind, saw it. Still counted nine. Take a look at this. I think it's best to say there is no set number; it varies for users. -- WindStar7125 (talk | contribs) 10:17, February 7, 2015 (UTC)
- It is weird. Hell, I remember a user claiming someone had 11 TSB. Kishi decided not to be consistent with the number. -- WindStar7125 (talk | contribs) 10:36, February 7, 2015 (UTC)
- Maybe Obito, Madara and Hagoromo had ten because they were all the Ten-Tails' jinchūriki and Naruto had nine because he had the nine tailed beasts' chakra w/o the Gedo Mazo? Either way, the TSBs are screwy. -- WindStar7125 (talk | contribs) 10:47, February 7, 2015 (UTC)
- It is weird. Hell, I remember a user claiming someone had 11 TSB. Kishi decided not to be consistent with the number. -- WindStar7125 (talk | contribs) 10:36, February 7, 2015 (UTC)
Re: your behavior
- It's not the first time people get insulted here. And no one has a single face. • Seelentau 愛 議 15:58, February 7, 2015 (UTC)
Sure I would love to talk
Thank you for taking your time to reply to my thread/topic/discussion.
Re: Poke Showdown
- Where was it said that Hiruzen became Hokage in the first great war, then? I'm looking for the reason as to why we assumed that Tobirama died in that war. Was it because the Sannin were older in the second war? • Seelentau 愛 議 18:20, February 16, 2015 (UTC)
- Yes, but that mustn't mean that Tobirama died in the first war, hm? I mean, as long as it wasn't said that he died in one of the great wars or that Hiruzen became Hokage in one of them, that couldve all happened outside of a war, right? • Seelentau 愛 議 18:28, February 16, 2015 (UTC)
Re: can it be deduced that
To prevent edits like this from occuring (because they've happened to me before as well as other users), I suggest going to your preferences and setting Preferred editor: to
Source editor, only if you haven't done so already. ★ WS7125[Mod] 20:53, February 18, 2015 (UTC)
- Really? Eh, well, the wiki has its screwy moments, I guess... ★ WS7125[Mod] 21:14, February 18, 2015 (UTC)
Late response but my real life has gotten exceptionally #(#*y as of late.
Anyway, I have quit several times actually. About a month into Cata and MoP at release. Both was because of school however and not really the overall status of the game. Once I graduated I simply didn't go back (not much of a point and I was already playing XIV at the time, until WoD release where I hit a burnout about 2 or 3 weeks ago where I have once again started focusing mainly on XIV. If this holds I'll end up in Azeroth for a few months before taking a mini-vacation in Eorzea. But yes I do actually enjoy WoD, I'm in love with my Garrison and I like actually going out into the world because now I am actually doing stuff instead of just flying over it.
But if I had to rank them,
- WotLK: First expac where I actually got to be a hardcore raider, until school kicked me in the teeth. But before that, we did goods.
- TBC: This is basically where I started as far as I am concerned. Made my main, picked my favorite spec (lolret) and yeah.
- Cata/MoP: They are basically the same for me as I barely played both of them when they were relevant. But I would give a slight nudge to Cata because of the 1-60 revamp...even though heirlooms basically murder any real point of seeing any of it.
- Vanilla: Start point. Got to Southshore before Blizz decided to have the Horde blow it up before quitting. This is why I said TBC was where I started, the first toon I made I still have but he is in no way my main.
You'll notice WoD isn't up there because yeah, not done yet. Though I am quite enjoying to storylines of it though. Except for Spires. Eff those birds.--TheUltimate3 (talk) 01:25, February 23, 2015 (UTC)
Oh they definitely killed professions, but at least to me they were slowly killing themselves for years. If you were a raider you had to have very specific professions to maximize your personal contribution to the raid, for example before they gave Holy Paladins a damned mana regain, we were chugging mana pots during raids, so you had to be able to make your own potions. I like the idea that professions aren't mandatory, but I do agree they could have gone in a far less, murder solution like they did with garrisons.
As for daily quest hubs I both agree and disagree. On the one hand, I do like the (very) old school method of grinding mobs to get exalted, that makes reaching exalted far more "worth it" when you know not everybody is going to have the stones to actually grind to exalted for almost no real reward (tabards, a mount, a pet, nothing that will actually help you). On the other hand, no daily hubs mean my main method of making gold is gone and as such I've literally been floundering for gold. Not to mention they did give me something to do. I understand the why there are no hubs; MoP pissed a lot of people off and poisoned the water on dailies. But again it's another reasoning of the how that was off.
And as a proud member of the Alliance, I laugh at what they did to Doomhammer. Muhahahaha. But seriously though as far as I could gather, everyone has been saying the Horde side of the story has been seriously lacking, while we on the Alliance got ourselves the best new character of the expac.--TheUltimate3 (talk) 11:38, February 23, 2015 (UTC)
- Considering draenei in general has done all of nothing since 2.0 (yes the beginning of Burning Crusade. No Velen ain't do *@#$ in the Sunwell) yes. Yrel is the best new character in WoD.
- Removing reforging was dumb. I was glad they removed hit, expertise, ect. Once you capped those, you never did anything with them, hell you barely did anything with them while you were trying to cap them. Getting rid of the unnecessary stats was smart. What wasn't smart was adding versatility (which is basically useless) and then not giving us Reforging. That was dumb. That was real dumb. And don't get me wrong, as I said I love daily hubs. That was my main source of income and without the Argent Tournament I would have never been able to afford getting my Netherwing Drake. But yeah, the beginning of MoP poisoned daily hubs and Blizzard does what Blizzard does and throws everything out when people complain.
- Which is honestly their weakest point. Crap goes down and they freak, so they toss everything out without just kinda fixing it to make it better. People hated that they all there was to do outside of raiding was the dozens of dailies across Pandaria, so they all but got rid of dailies in Draenor when they could have just put a single dailies quest hub in Draenor and called it a day.--TheUltimate3 (talk) 12:29, February 23, 2015 (UTC)
- Oh no it was completely asinine to kill off AU-Velen when our Velen is still on Azeroth doing all of jack and #($*. That being said, AU-Velen nuking himself to purify a naaru was a pretty badass way to go out. So yes, hella stupid to kill AU-Velen off, but they did a very good job of doing it, at least in my opinion. As for why Yrel is awesome, it's mainly due to how Alliance heroes are typically presented in WoW. Most of them either don't do anything ever or is named Varian Wyrnn. Having Yrel go from Velen's apprentice to Exarch and basically leading the Alliance forces with your character was great, and again this is coming from a person who's heroes have either done nothing or was named Varian.
- And as dirty as it is to agree with the dreaded Feminists, but yes they were right about this one. I don't know about Velen's niece but being Maraad's love interest would have just made her the draenei Tyrande where her true drive against the Iron Horde would be Blackhand nuking her lover. Which...would not be good because that's what the exact opposite of what we have been complaining about when it comes to our heroes.
- Now i have no idea whats up with the "Fat Alliance Neckbeard" thing or Gorgrond's lore for that matter. But yeah we didn't need yet another Horde focused expansion, not after TBC and MOP. (For the record, WotLK actually did well balancing both sides out, and Cata was all over the place. TBC basically became the Blood Elf Redemption Arc with their incorporation into the Horde while the draenei were you know just kinda there, and MoP was super super Horde focused to the point where the Barren's patch had a long detailed quest about the Darkspear Rebellion and the Alliance had mechanical cats.)
- Standard consensus is that it's the mark that means that when this is all over, she will be the full on leader of the draenei. What that mark actually means is anyone's guess, but another common consensus is that it's the mark that shows that Velen is a prophet. Perhaps this means Yrel will be a prophet. Who knows.
- Slight correction, actually big correction. Tirion Fordring was kicked out of the Alliance before the start of Vanilla because he didn't kill the orc Eitrigg due to both of them being honor brothers. Fordring has not been a part of the Alliance since. Thrall was all over Cata and MoP (but especially Cata, Vol'jin took over in MoP) and yes Anduin appeared more than Varian but he did comparatively little that mattered to the Alliance as a whole (A lot of what he did was very Pandaria and Garrosh being a dick focused. See his time with Wrathian and the Timeless Isle). But in terms of the Alliance doing Alliance things for the Alliance. It's been Varian, guest staring the other leaders only to highlight Varian. For example Tyrande about to go hog monkey on a temple with Varian telling her it was a bad idea.
- Anywho, love and revenge is still present, just not because Yrel was Maraad arm candy. Her sister's blood was used to summon the Dark Star in Shadowmoon Valley and that was pretty much the driving force for her. As for Maraad, at least for me I'm pretty sure he comes back as a spirit in the mission where Yrel becomes an Exarch but what he does or says I cannot recall. Either way, Blizzard has a terrible track record with female heroes when they have significant other, and Yrel would have been no different. So I'm glad that was scrapped in favor of the (while still generic) "you killed my sister" motivation they got going for her.
- And yes Tyrande. Yes she did great during Warcraft III. Once WoW actually started, she did all of jack and #($* until MoP made her a badass again. The downside they also made her stupid, as in the aforementioned Temple Assault where her plan while it would have worked would have destroyed the Temple and gotten most of her people killed, while Varian's plan of "flush the idiots out" had minimal casualties on their side while the Horde was annihilated and the temple was completely fine.
- Back onto Gorgrond, are you sure? Because I literally cannot find anything about this. Got a link or something?
- MoP was really Horde focused in that almost everything was Garrosh driven. He was the one violently invading Pandaria. He was the one who orchestrated the Divine Bell plot which resulted in the Purge of Dalaran. The assault on the Barrens as I've said was heavily Horde focused with a awesome questline of Chen Stormstout reuniting with his old buddies Thrall and Vol'jin, and the Alliance equivalent was mechanical cats and a short chat with Vol'jin. During the aforementioned Divine Bell plotline, we got to see the blood elves actually take stuff into their own hands and Lothemar actually becoming a character, while we get to see Jaina go right back to "Horde are evil, kill them all!" and just stay there. Looking from the outside in, everything was very Horde driven, and even the final assault on Orgrimmar which people like to cite as "See Alliance you get to destroy our capital city!" fail to notice that Orgrimmar is still there, the Alliance went in making sure they didn't destroy the city and only went after Garrosh's forces and not the rest of the Horde. It was an Alliance victory sure, but it was done in a way that the Horde was to also come out on top, or at least as far as they could be with their entire infrastructure collapsing.
- I am hoping they keep her around cause Titans know we need draenei to actually do something, but yeah she may very well become completely irrelevant next expansion but she'll be awesome while we have her and if she leaves on a high note then fantastic, she doesn't go down like Jaina does.
And incorrect again, the Argent Crusade is very much pro-everyone and anti-Scourge. They do allow Forsaken into their ranks after all, should they wish to join. Most however are just very very pro-Sylvanas (note: I did not say pro-Horde.) and thus not willing to join anything that isn't Sylvanas. As for Thrall, oh he doesn't have blind hatred for humans oh no, but make no mistake, Thrall is Horde, he never left the Horde itself when he left the position of Warchief when he had to be Shaman Thrall, then came back when he had to kill Garrosh and he swore to follow Vol'jin when the rest of the Horde leaders declared him their new leader. Tirion on the other hand was kicked out of the Alliance, like full turkey kicked out and has never once considered rejoining it, instead doing the Argent Crusade thing to purify Lordaeron (and yet has made no moves or claims to the Capital City, probably because he knows that until Sylvanas is put down, it is Horde territory).
- That trivia note says that this was changed before Alpha, which means before the Alliance people came in and complained. So if Blizz scraped it, they scrapped it because they wanted to. Similar to a Worgen questline in Shadowmoon because they are also a race that has done all of jack and $($^ since they arrived.
- As for what comes after,
- The Dark Below is a popular opinion. The home of the naga, heavy on the Burning Legion, things like that.
- If not a Dark Below expansion, then a Burning Legion expansion. Provided we kill Gul'dan or no, there is clearly a Legion presence on Draenor that wasn't there during the original Rise of the Horde. Perhaps AU Kil'jaeden and MU Kil'jaeden get together and decide to murder Azeroth because they can?
- If I was in Blizzard's seat, I'd do a lot. Mind you a lot of what I'd do would be crazy.
- Personally I'd remove flying, or at least the amount of flying we have now. I get that people only like seeing the world during the leveling process, but then right after they just sit on their asses in their capital cities and then complain that there is nothing to do in the world, but then quickly complain when there is stuff to do in the world because it's boring as all they had to do was fly in get the thing and fly back to the quest giver.
- Reestablish Stormwind and Orgrimmar as the major faction hubs. Obvious reasons.
- Legion focused expansion with active Burning Legion invasions. If the player base grows complacent they will pay for it. A Legion strong hold appears somewhere and it must be combated or a certain number of demons must be defeated across the whole of Azeroth or else a settlement gets destroyed or taken over until a whole new set of requirements are met. If the players decide they are just gonna hide in Shattrath for whatever reason, when they come back Stormwind and Orgrimmar will be burning in felfire with Varian and Vol'jin relocated someplace else.
- Not sure what I'd do with professions. I'd rather them not be mandatory but at the same time not completely useless.--TheUltimate3 (talk) 21:52, February 23, 2015 (UTC)
- I know, that's why I would like flying to removed from the old world again. Once we leave Draenor and is back on Azeroth I would like those cities to be the focus point again, and us grounded so that the world can feel like a world again, instead of a giant lobby.
- Well aware.
- To be fair, there is no way they could actually fix all of that. They'd have to completely 100% redo every zone every expansion. I don't think that has anything to do with story but has everything to do with how impossible that actually is.
- Yeah that ain't happening. They already said nothing will happen to our timeline and that basically everything we do here will help a future AU Azeroth, but MU Azeroth will still be a #($*hole.--TheUltimate3 (talk) 12:00, February 24, 2015 (UTC)
- Oh the races I agree and disagree. I had a lot more to say but work got in the way and had to cut it short. >_>
- I only put the main cities because it required less typing. But yes I would love to see all the cities sacked.
- It is a problem, but I believe it is one that can be handled if they focused on one conflict at a time. Cata came in with two conflicts, Garrosh's war of aggression and the Hour of Twilight, that's why there is so much of an orc burnout because the Garrosh storyline bled across two expansions. Had the Alliance-Horde War been the focus of only Pandaria it would have been swell. But yes, Warcraft 4 would solve most of this but that could have the after effect of dramatically altering how WoW would have to work, unless they split them off into two different universes which I wouldn't really want. So their alternative method has been books...with varying degrees of success.
- Way to difficult to manage because it would practically require that you only level up in sequence to the story. And yes fixing TBC zones and WotLK zones would be great but again, that would be time taken away from adding something new, which was a big big problem with Cataclysm.
- The point, as far as I can gather, is that the Vanguard (the assault force that went through the Dark Portal) is made up of people who are not complete assholes. Besides the fact that if we don't stop the Iron Horde they can just keep coming back to our Azeroth, nobody wants to just doom another Azeroth or any other worlds to the Iron Horde simply because "it isn't our porblem". This is the reason the Alliance Expedition set out to destroy Ner'zhul's portals instead of just leaving when they had the chance; they couldn't damn other worlds simply because theirs was safe. Burden of being heroes I guess.--TheUltimate3 (talk) 12:40, February 24, 2015 (UTC)
- Ah yes that thing. My cousin told me about it or at least a similar one years back. I never got into it (lazy) but I can defiantly see the appeal.--TheUltimate3 (talk) 13:59, February 24, 2015 (UTC)
- Oh while I agree there are a lot of servers, a game like WoW kinda needs them. While I personally would love if the game only had one server and everybody was on it, realistically that would not be a smart choice because Light that would just make everything busy.
- Garrosh was very inconsistent. He appeared as a whiny child (despite being at least a decade older than Thrall) and come Cataclysm he was very warmongering, but he wasn't completely evil (at least you can see from the Horde side. Alliance side we only saw warmongering). But it should be noted that Horde players hated him just as much as Alliance members, and it's because of that the decided to go ahead and make him piss on kittens evil in MoP.
- It is still better to focus on actual new content then updating old primarily because hells they are pratically running out of stuff. They've settled just about everything from Warcraft III and the Frozen Throne. We're reliving Warcraft I and II with WoD. If they don't tell new stories they can't progress at all.
- And like I said, the threat is "They could hurt other people". Gul'dan is not the only one who knows how to build portals, hell Gul'dan didn't even make the current Dark Portal the Iron Horde used him as a battery. Like I said we're there for two reasons: Keep our Azeroth safe and keep everyone else safe. Neither the Horde and the Alliance are gonna up and abandon the free orcs and the draenei to whatever fate comes to them just because our Azeroth is safe.--TheUltimate3 (talk) 15:06, February 24, 2015 (UTC)