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Elveonora

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August 15, 2009
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Re: hello

Hi, Elveonora. I'm sorry that this is months late, but as you have noted, I have not been here for a while. However, be assured, as I have dropped in occasionally to observe progress; I've just been quite busy with studies and work, but you are also right about me somewhat giving up on Naruto - It's not entirely true, as I have enjoyed the series, but I had to lay off for a bit because my expectations and attachments had become too large. Of course, I have also been following the series, and while there were large disappointments along the way, I feel alright with how it ended.

I had also been working as a translator for the Korean webcomic series Tower of God, so that was also a thing that had me occupied.

To try and answer your questions:

  • I still personally feel like black lightning was meant to be the Lightning variant of Amaterasu. Seeing how the recent databook translations by Seelentau have revealed Amaterasu and Blaze Release to just be a stronger modified Fire, I'd imagine that black lightning was intended to be a stronger Lightning Release in a similar manner.
  • My current guess for "Magnet Release" is that it isn't the simplest form of magnetism that we imagine. While magnetism falls under it, I'm guessing that the "磁" may have been expanded to include "forces" (all that Naruto science) that move other metallic or earthen materials. As far as I'm aware, gold is only weakly diamagnetic as well, but it was controlled on almost the same scale as iron sand was. In conclusion, I believe that this is just like the Lava, Storm and Boil Releases in that its name isn't always literally what it does (I was always a fan of the "The nature name is only symbolic" thing.). While unconfirmed, I believe that the appearance of Magnetism+sand on Sage Art: Super Tailed Beast Ball Rasenshuriken is good evidence for believing that that is how sand is manipulated.
  • I have no choice but to concede to Kishi's classification of Blaze Release. One of the minor reasons for my leave was because coming here too often twisted and limited my thoughts, and I often found clarity when I had ceased rambling on in a hurry to fill ideas. At this stage, considering the general connotation of the character "炎" (flame) in Japanese, Chinese and Korean, it makes the most sense for it to be a stronger Fire, and nothing more. I would, however, still assume that "Blaze" is Sharingan-based, since I don't imagine Sasuke using it without the dōjutsu. However, we'll probably never know.
  • The pattern theory (if true at all) requires that that Wind+Lightning be "Wind modified by Lightning" or "Wind with properties of Lightning", so as long as your interpretation of Magnetism agrees with this, it seems possible to not disagree. However, I would personally stick to Lightning+Earth, although I have no idea how Kishi views Magnetism.
    • (Of course, the recent revelation that it's highly likely to be Earth+Wind kills our discussion, I suppose.)
  • I was once a proponent of the idea that Fire+Lightning=Blaze, because I felt that lightning's charged plasma nature would "enhance" fire to produce solar plasma, which in this case was expressed as black flames (because Kishi thinks black fire looks cool). In an alternative interpretation, Amaterasu is only fire, but so hot that it's charged - Lightning thus allows one to manipulate it. (Not that any of this is valid anymore, seeing the recent classifications.) If this was true, however, it would not disagree with the pattern theory.

Again, I apologize for being so late; I may be around a tad bit more often, so please do feel free to chat me up. --GoDai (talk) 03:46, November 25, 2014 (UTC)

I just travelled quite a bit as a child, so I was able to loosely learn a few languages during my earlier life. I certainly don't think that it's anything special, and even if it was a talent, we all have that in some area. Now, onto Naruto-related business:

  • I would feel better about Blaze and Black Lightning if the "strengthening" was just caused by a combination with Yin or Yang. However, Darui and the Third Raikage were not recorded as users of Yin or Yang, so that seems unlikely. Seems like we do need to go with the "stronger version" idea, unless Black Lightning is not really like Amaterasu. Perhaps Gengetsu's oil-like water could be a similar sort of "stronger version".
  • My current idea for Magnet Release is that the Wind nature represents an invisible force that acts on objects from a distance, causing them to float, as seen in the Ice and Scorch natures. If floating ice panels and floating fireballs can be created, it seems that Magnet Release controlling floating earth (sand, metals) is possible. If so, then the name "Magnet" would just be symbolism for forces that move earthen materials and Magnet Release would encompass both normal magnetism (for iron sand, Toroi's technique) and other unspecified forces (for gold dust, sand). This new definition would be okay with my pattern theory, as Earth would still enhance Wind (to make an invisible earth-controlling force, similar to my "solidified air" theory for sand) and the result would be "opposite" to Lightning, possibly meaning that Lightning and Magnetism oppose each other (Lightning would revert Magnetism to Wind, according to the pattern theory).
    • While we tend to think of magnets as being related to electricity in modern times (electromagnetism), it is likely that people in old times didn't know about the relationship, and simply believed magnets to be rocks that could push other rocks with this mysterious pressure (that's what it feels like when I play with magnets, anyway), so perhaps Kishimoto's combination makes sense. I support the idea that the natures are named in a traditional manner, while the effects of the Releases' techniques are more technical. (I use Storm as strong evidence of that.) It's true that the Naruto world has advanced technology, but I think most of the technique names are named in ways that invoke old-language uses.
    • Of course, the above is just my theory and for now, we should not label any of Gaara's techniques as Magnet Release in my opinion. Kishimoto has occasionally redefined things (like Amaterasu) but until such a move is made, it seems that sand-based techniques should remain considered non-elemental.
  • I personally liked it better when the Tailed Beast Skills were just unique abilities, with Son being the only one possessing an advanced nature. However, I did share your idea that the Tailed Beasts, Ten-Tails included, would have the ten natures, when it was revealed that Shukaku had Magnet Release (and consequently Kokuō with Boil). I always did feel that Wood's mysterious relation to Tailed Beasts was a hint of sorts, and I suppose that the Shinju cleared that up. I don't know if Kishimoto is actually going to follow through with our expectations (since he's great at that), but if I was forced to match them up, I'd say the following (I don't have strong confidence in them, at all):
    • Isobu would have Ice. I can imagine it using ice mirrors, since Yagura used the Water Release: Water Mirror Technique.
    • Gyūki's beam-like techniques in video games seem similar to Storm Release to me, so it seems okay to guess that Gyūki has Storm. The octopus-like shape could explain the Water component. The ink might also be symbolically connected to dark storm clouds (reminiscent of the movie's usage of Storm).
    • Chōmei would have my Wind+Lightning combination, a super-vibration sort of nature, since insect wings do that. Wind+Lightning also reminds me of light, and that might connect to the insect scales.
    • Kurama is a nine-tailed fox, which also bears connections to ghostly fire, and could have Scorch. Otherwise, Explosion would be my guess, given Kurama's connection to disasters. I suppose it could trade Explosion for the Wind+Lightning I gave to Chōmei.
    • Matatabi would be given Explosion... for now. Ideally, it would be given Scorch, due to its being a bakeneko and its relation to ghostly fire. (I actually want to give it Dark Release due to using ghostly blue flames, but I must hold off unless Dark is shown to be canon.)
    • Saiken... since Earth+Lightning failed to be Magnet, it might be something that has a connection to alkaline substances (since they're earthen and can explode), but this is a weak theory. If Earth enhances Lightning, it might form a different kind of force that can turn earth into a soapy or alkaline substance. If I recall correctly, my theory on Soap Bubble Ninjutsu was that it combined Saiken's natural alkali and Utakata's Water nature. It's possible now that the natural alkali is this unexpected combination. Then, just like how Deidara combines Explosion (Fire+Lightning?) and Earth to make Exploding Clay, Utakata would combine "Alkali" (Earth+Lightning?) and Water to make his special soap bubbles.
  • Anyway, that was just me rambling, since I haven't thought too deeply about it, so don't trust that it's my final thoughts on everything. Again, I don't quite strongly believe in it. As for the pattern theory, it's still alive for me; I'll just need to update it when I actually have time.

If you would like to know what I want from Naruto now, I simply want closure regarding this elemental matter, because it's a big part of why I got into Naruto in the first place. I was curious about how Kishimoto saw these elements, and I just need that to be wrapped up.

  • 1. I would like Crystal, Dark, Steel and Swift to be introduced as official in some side material for consistency. For me, Crystal would be a kekkei tōta (No one knew about it, so kekkei genkai seems unlikely, and kekkei tōta are considered to be much rarer, which fits Guren's condition for me). Dark, Steel and Swift were mentioned to be kekkei genkai, but Kishimoto might change his mind. I feel like Dark's ability to absorb other natures might place it apart, although I wanted it to be a combination involving Fire (Fire+Wind, long time ago). I would like Steel to be an enhanced Earth (black earth, just like black fire and lightning) instead of a kekkei genkai, but it could be Earth+Lightning (Pattern theory survives only if Steel changes Earth into Steel and does not produce any Steel on its own). Since 迅雷 (jinrai) means "thunder", I would like Swift (迅) to be Wind+Lightning (which I gave a placeholder name "Thunderclap") if it used super-vibrating slashes or sonic waves instead of just speeding the user up.
  • 2. If the above does not happen, have the movie villain or other characters use a single technique for each of the remaining natures. Kishimoto is much more involved in this upcoming movie, so he should have the ability to have characters use two simple techniques. Even if it's used by random unnamed ninja fighting in an opening scene, we would know that these new natures were approved by Kishimoto. I certainly don't count on it, but if he does, we can simply take those two and Explosion and fit them to Earth+Lightning, Wind+Lightning, and Fire+Lightning.

That was a bit long, but since I've been away for a while, I might as well tell someone my thoughts.

I spend most of my free time with my friends if possible, and since I spend a most of my time studying, almost all remaining time goes to connecting with people. I'm not a sports or gaming guy. I enjoy most kinds of movies, especially sci-fis and thrillers. My translating work is also non-paid and is more of a hobby to keep practicing my Korean (chatting in Korean is no problem, but more difficult words require constant use). Be assured, I am obviously nowhere close to superhuman, and certainly not above anyone else. Why don't you tell me a little about yourself next time? I might not be back for a while, though, haha. --GoDai (talk) 12:55, November 30, 2014 (UTC)

ORAS

The protomorphosis happens if Groudon/Kyogre absorbs large amounts of natural energy. Senjutsu confirmed in Pokémon! :D • Seelentau 愛 15:46, December 2, 2014 (UTC)

chat

Been a while, can you come on chat? :D --Sajuuk [Moderator] Talk Page | Contribs | Channel 11:59, December 12, 2014 (UTC)

^ If you can. --Sajuuk [Moderator] Talk Page | Contribs | Channel 23:06, December 17, 2014 (UTC)
^ If possible dude. --Sajuuk [Moderator] Talk Page | Contribs | Channel 17:19, January 7, 2015 (UTC)
^ And again. --Sajuuk [Moderator] talk | contribs | Channel 22:51, January 20, 2015 (UTC)
It was about something else actually... --Sajuuk [Moderator] talk | contribs | Channel 22:54, January 20, 2015 (UTC)
Whatever, it's not really all that important. Not really sure where all the "anti-chat" is coming from, but it's interesting to see... --Sajuuk [Moderator] talk | contribs | Channel 23:05, January 20, 2015 (UTC)

Re: Ootsutsuki

Na, they're an alien life form. • Seelentau 愛 13:21, December 20, 2014 (UTC)

Re: prejudice

Just was wondering based on your comments. For the record I'm Catholic, but I'm not going to interfere with you; Sajuuk already removed my question.Gemnist (talk) 00:40, December 26, 2014 (UTC)Gemnist

Re: Oro

Sorry for replying so late. I must have skimmed over your comment. The databook neither says Oro can, nor cannot, specifically. It only mentions White Zetsu as a user. However, by doing a little bit of digging into the Living Corpse Reincarnation, and it doesn't mention anything about Orochimaru modifying his body to make it look like the original. The possessed body takes on his form automatically. This was shown with Genryuumaru, Oro's host prior to his attempt on Sasuke. The manual modifying, thought to be done by Orochimaru, and possibly his Vanishing Facial Copy Technique, is technically speculation.--KotoTalk Page-My Contributions 05:35, January 2, 2015 (UTC)

Elveo, I've corrected my mistake. I paid a little too much attention to how Oro looked like a Zetsu version of himself immediately after possessing the body of a parasite clone. In that, I was probably acting in bias. That's my fault. Thank you for correcting me.--KotoTalk Page-My Contributions 19:00, January 2, 2015 (UTC)

Re: Yo

Sorry for my late reply, for this week. Yeah, Naruto and Pokemon anime resumes to be aired. And you're welcome, I personally liked the idea of today's episode :) —Shakhmoot Nadeshiko Village Symbol (Talk) 12:30, January 8, 2015 (UTC)

Re: old hamura

In the movie? His screenshots aren't out yet. Though I have his Retsu no Sho pic (he's aged a lot)!--Hisana456 (talk) 13:49, January 10, 2015 (UTC)

Here: http://imgur.com/Nr6zGBF --Hisana456 (talk) 13:56, January 10, 2015 (UTC)
Exactly! He was supposed to be the 'hot' one.. but yeah, he's Hago's twin afterall.--Hisana456 (talk) 14:05, January 10, 2015 (UTC)

Re: Jin no Sho English

You do realize I live in Germany? :D I have no idea about English release dates, sorry. • Seelentau 愛 18:38, January 19, 2015 (UTC)

Classifications

Those nature releases that I just reverted edits on come from non-canonical sources so cannot be classified as being a "Kekkei Genkai". Those edits are actually speculation added by the user, unless you can link me to any valid source that claims them as being such. --Sajuuk [Moderator] talk | contribs | Channel 16:35, January 20, 2015 (UTC)

It's likely a mistake in the articles as, unless a databook or character physically stated that they're a kekkei genkai (which nobody said for the Crystal Release), it's technically speculative in nature and should be removed. --Sajuuk [Moderator] talk | contribs | Channel 16:38, January 20, 2015 (UTC)

Re: I suppose

Nope, nothing. • Seelentau 愛 21:11, January 22, 2015 (UTC)

Nope. The special chapter isn't included, not sure about the interview. • Seelentau 愛 21:36, January 22, 2015 (UTC)
It totally is, I use it for almost all translations. I only use the physical copy when something's blurry or too small. • Seelentau 愛 22:08, January 22, 2015 (UTC)

re: jin no sho

Are you talking about the English one (if there is one, link please) or the japanese one?
-- WindStar7125 (talk | contribs) 21:45, January 22, 2015 (UTC)

Here. How did you know I had it though? -- WindStar7125 (talk | contribs) 22:16, January 22, 2015 (UTC)
K then. Congrats on the 14000 edits, btw. -- WindStar7125 (talk | contribs) 22:44, January 22, 2015 (UTC)

re: tailed beast genders

Where did the databooks say they have genders? Is the answer to that question.--TheUltimate3 Eye of Rikudō (talk) 23:33, January 25, 2015 (UTC)

Re: Kaguya advanced natures

As I said seconds ago, she doesn't have the Kekkei Genkai thingy in her profile, even though she uses the Byakugan. This either means that her Byakugan is no Kekkei Genkai, or it means that they forgot to add it. But even if they forgot to add it, it doesn't mean that she has more than Byakugan as a Kekkei Genkai. Furthermore, we don't even know if Storm Release came from the tailed beasts. Madara simply had it, without any further explanation or anything. Then, for the tailed beasts' kekkei genkai, I'm not sure. We need some definitive proof that someone who absorbs the tailed beasts like Madara and Obito did, gains their abilities as well.
On another note, there's a digital version of the databook coming out, labeled as Version 2 on iTunes. So we might see some corrections, hopefully. • Seelentau 愛 00:36, January 26, 2015 (UTC)

Why are you always ignoring the most crucial points? Kaguya isn't the origin of the tailed beast, the Ten-Tails is. Furthermore, the simple fact that Hagoromo split the chakra and changed the parts to something entirely new, changed everything. The beasts could've easily gained their Kekkei Genkai only at that point, because they didn't possess blood or anything before, being pure chakra and all (or even more, pure natural energy).
If Madara really gained the Storm Release through one of the tailed beasts, then why was no beast ever attributed with it? I know that the absence is no evidence, but it's something that needs to be taken into consideration. • Seelentau 愛 00:55, January 26, 2015 (UTC)
Yes, but as I said, did everyone who absorbed the tailed beasts (Obito, Madara, Naruto) gain access to all their natures? If so, why didn't everyone use them? Obito didn't use one special nature, Madara used Storm Release which we can't safely attribute to a tailed beast, only Naruto gained access to their powers because the tailed beasts allowed him to. So if it's the case that the jinchuriki needs their beast's approval, then it might just simply be that Kaguya didn't get that approval. • Seelentau 愛 14:52, January 26, 2015 (UTC)
And again you ignore that the tailed beasts aren't her original chakra. • Seelentau 愛 16:53, January 26, 2015 (UTC)
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