On this page, I'm documenting my thoughts and theories on various aspects of the Naruto universe.
Kakashi's, Rin's and Obito's age Edit
This explanation is outdated and not valid anymore.
Alright folks, since there still seems to be disagreement regarding the age of those three, I'll explain it again, hopefully for the last time. All this information is based on the databooks and of course the manga, it also requires the ability to think logical. I won't take months and days into account, since we don't have enough of them. So only the years matter.
First of all, Kakashi's age:
We take a break here and look at when the 3NWW took place:
So we have the war happening (and likely ending) 1 year before Naruto was born, with Kakashi being 13 years old. So far, so good. Now here's where most people make a mistake. They think Kakashi, Obito and Rin must be the same age, since they all graduated from the academy and became Chūnin at the same time.
To solve this, let's look at when Obito and Rin became Genin and Chūnin:
As you can see, both of them were 4 years older than Kakashi when they became Genin. But for them to be in the same Genin team after they graduated, they must've graduated at the same time. There's no example that would suggest it could be otherwise. Now, if Obito and Rin were four years older than Kakashi when they all graduated, it means that they were born four years earlier than Kakashi, amirite?
From this, we get the following:
And now we conclude this:
Now we solved Kakashi's Jōnin age, when the 3NWW happened and how old Obito actually is (and Rin would be if she hadn't died).
Here is the problem with your timeline. Gai and Asuma became Chunin at 11 and 12. Genin do not wear flak jackets.. they were BOTH seen wearing the Flak Jackets when Rin showed her Kakashi Paper to them all, meaning they were at least 11 and 12 then.. Kakashi is the SAME age as Gai but only around 8 months younger. IN the chapter of Kakashi Gaiden it was said Kakashi had JUST become Jonin and Rin even talked about the fact she just talked to Obito and the rest about it. It means it happened soon after that page in chapter 599. Obito died at 13... Now it was stated that Itachi and Kakashi were prodigy's/genius's who graduated the academy in ONE year. Nobody else is known to have done that. Sasuke and Naruto joined the academy at 5 years old and graduated at 12 years old. Jonin sensei's can decide that certain students cannot take the Chunin exams if they feel they are not ready.. and only teams of 3 can take the exams. Gai held back his team one year because of it. Now that covers my timeline right there. Obito died at 13, soon after Kakashi became a Jonin at 11, where 11 year old chunin Gai and 12 year old chunin Asuma, 15 year old chunin Aoba and 12 year old Genin Kurenai are shown when Rin reveals her "secret plan" to give Kakashi gifts for his promotion. ItachiWasAHero (talk) 01:47, May 20, 2013 (UTC)
Gai and Asuma are Chunin there hence the Flak Jackets. Kurenai is not wearing a flak jacket as she did not become Chunin until a year later when she was 13. That supports my timeline. That and EVERYTHING ELSE I POSTED.... come on man I thought you payed more attention and was more mature than Elveo? ItachiWasAHero (talk) 02:02, May 20, 2013 (UTC)
-___- If that was the case then Obito, Kakashi, and Rin would of been wearing their flak jackets at Kanabi Bridge... that was a nice try though. Genin DON'T have Flak Jackets. Chunin can choose NOT to wear theirs. Same with Jonin. ItachiWasAHero (talk) 02:16, May 20, 2013 (UTC)
Because the vest is the sign of becoming a chunin, it is worn after that by choice. IN the 4th war all the Genin are kept at home while all the chunin and above are at war... with Flak Jackets on. Name ONE genin who has worn a flak jacket.. oh wait you can't and why is that? because those who pass the chunin exams are awarded flak jackets and the rank of chunin. In Shippuden all the chunins are not seen wearing their flaks til the war, Kurenai as a Jonin is not seen wearing hers except in flash backs and Kakashi didn't even wear his during the 3rd war. There is the proof. Obviously chunins and jonins don't have to wear their flaks unless it is war time and even then they really don't have to... and even in war time genin don't have flaks as shown with team minato ItachiWasAHero (talk) 02:33, May 20, 2013 (UTC)
Did you not read my other posts on this subject?? I used dates, ages, and manga evidence. YOUR "definitive" evidence is the genin and chunin grad age numbers for obito, rin, and kakashi... YOU clearly are very close minded and do not know how to use dates and numbers as well as me. My proof is better than yours, you just like Elveo are being biased and close minded and are mad that I am right. Kakashi was 11. Enough said. ItachiWasAHero (talk) 03:05, May 20, 2013 (UTC)
Also, Naruto was a genin because he was gone for 2.5 years with Jiraiya and never took a second chunin exams, he wasn't supposed to participate in the war.. have you been reading this manga at all?? You have some very terrible arguments ItachiWasAHero (talk) 03:08, May 20, 2013 (UTC)
And again.. I don't post opinions here I post facts. In my opinion Kishi just got everything wrong and Kakashi was 13 and so was Rin when he was a Jonin. But the facts based on everything I found make him 11. I seem to be the only unbiased person on this site. This is sad ItachiWasAHero (talk) 03:19, May 20, 2013 (UTC)
The only argument you're using is - besides the childish insults that will get you banned sooner or later - that Guy is wearing a flak jacket. I explained why it's normal that he's wearing one. You didn't even try to disprove my timeline, instead all you do is whining about how everyone is biased while using caps far too often. If you want others to take you seriously, I strongly suggest you stop this kind of behaviour. Seelentau 愛議 03:58, May 20, 2013 (UTC)
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I did the math and made a timeline and Rin is the only one who is 2 Months too young to graduate at the same time as obito and/or Kakashi, but I did the math all the way until Naruto's Graduation and Hinata is also too young to have Graduated at 12 with the rest of her friends so I think Kishi just likes to round up ages when they are within 2-3 months of a year. But with all said and done, my math and timeline fits all the way. ItachiWasAHero (talk) 06:20, May 20, 2013 (UTC)
I just spent hours creating a timeline I did not even remember to save and right when I pasted it here the computer died. I am frustrated beyond belief and I decided I am not going to post another timeline for awhile. ItachiWasAHero (talk) 07:04, May 20, 2013 (UTC)
I am cooled down now and I have come to this conclusion, if we completely disclude chapter 599, then Obito and Rin are 4 years older than Kakashi, if we include chapter 599 then they are 2 years older than Kakashi. It all comes down to Databook 4 to solve this issue. Right now as long as it isn't addressed by databook 4 then we are both wrong and right at the same time. ItachiWasAHero (talk) 09:33, May 20, 2013 (UTC)
Oh, also completely irrelevant, but @Itachi, Kabuto also graduated the Academy in a single year, he never was called a prodigy/genius as far as I remember (though he certainly is) :-I and yes, Seel's reasons are the same as mine, movie and flack jackets and other **** aren't enough evidence, the ultimate evidence are dates and scenes. For what we know, all parties are wrong and he wasn't even 9 back then. But based on CURRENT up to date information that is subject to change, he was. It's clear that Kishimoto did mistake or a retcon because Kakashi's graduation number shows him leaving the Academy years before Rin and Obito, but that makes it even more complicated and can't be solved, unless the chapter 599 already solved it by making the 3 of them peers rather than possibly what the original idea might have been, that they were of the same age but Kakashi simply matured earlier.--Elveonora (talk) 11:41, May 20, 2013 (UTC)
I stated at the beginning of my text that I won't take months into account, since we don't know what month they graduated or what month the war began and all that. And of course I didn't look at chapter 599 when I made my calculations, because it's not relevant at all and also it's full of mistakes. I explained why it's normal for a Genin to wear a flack jacket at times of war, too. Regarding the gap in their Ninja IDs, since we don't know exactly how they work, I ignored that, too. From that I conclude that Kakashi was 9 years old (and 4 years old when Sakumo died). Why is it even a problem for people to be wrong about that? There was no need for all this, I think. Hopefully, this settles it (at least until we have Databook 4, as you said). Seelentau 愛議 13:34, May 20, 2013 (UTC)
I'm Axel_Carrozzo. Itachiwasahero, I correct your previous mistake. You said that Kakashi became junin at 11 and Obito died that same year with 13. Obito was as tall as Minato when they fought (Obito 175,0 and Minato 179,2) The young Obito was 154,2 when he died. A person cannot grew up 20,8 cm in two years. This is a common mistake many people have commited. That Kakashi and Obito were 13 at Kakashi Gaiden and Kurama's attack happened one year later (Having in mind that Kakashi was 14 back then). Obito couldn't have goten that tall in a single year. Remember he had his deeper voice (Current adult voice) during the incident. From what I say that a person can't also have his/her voice mature in one year. The timeframe Seelentau established is actually acceptable for growth changes (Kakashi 9 and ObIto 13 at Kakashi Gaiden) (Kakashi 14 and Obito 18). In those five years apart, It's logic that Obito grow up that much. I'm having problems to sign. That's why I post my talk page User_talk:RIKUDO_SENNIN_47 --RIKUDO SENNIN 47 (talk) 15:11, May 20, 2013 (UTC)
How many mistakes were fixed in the tankobon? Because I know the 4ths face was removed from the monument and that was it and it was the only thing he apologised for... so the Flak Jacket Argument is still there. Now on to the voice and height argument.... ITACHI UCHIHA disproves all of your argument. He was shown to be at 164-165cm(manga) and 170-171cm(anime) at 13 in comparison with Fugaku and Mikoto, and he sounded the exact same as when he is an adult... Let's not forget Naruto in 3 years grew 18.5cm. from 147.5cm to 166cm. outside of your grad age numbers your arguments are back to square one, the grad age numbers do cement him as 9 when he became a jonin if we go only by those numbers with no delving deeper... but just like with Zabuza being actually 19 instead of 26 you should already know there are a few mistakes in every databook. Excluding the people who were not supposed to be there and the 4th hokage monument mistakes.. chapter 599 is all good to go and it makes Kakashi 11 years old, not 9. Like I said, You are not right and I am not wrong, but vice versa is also true. It is up to databook 4 to decided which way it goes. ItachiWasAHero (talk) 09:40, July 11, 2013 (UTC)
Kabuto's life Edit
Since there seems to be some disagreement about Kabuto and how his life went timeline-wise, allow me to explain it.
This means, everything that happened in is early life happened in these ten years. To resolve this matter, we also need a piece of information about Orochimaru:
So he left the village ~3 aNB, the same time Kabuto became Genin. Coincidence? Obviously not:
So we have 3 aNB for this happening and thus for Nono's death. According to Kabuto himself, he left the orphanage 5 years ago. 3 aNB minus 5 makes 2 bNB. He left the orphanage when he was 5 years old, after living there for three years, according to that one guy. 5-3 is 2, meaning Kabuto was two years old when they found him (5 bNB). At that time, the third NWW waged, explaining the destruction of Kabuto's hometown and why they helped the Konoha ninja and all that.
On a sidenote, we know that Danzo didn't have his Sharingan at that time, since Shisui was still alive and kicking.
I think you are mistaken here, let's try it another way.
To make it simpler, like this:
That's very hard to believe... again, you also say Itachi was 11 while cutting Oro's hand, right? That was 10 years pre-part II. and Kabuto's age 23-10=13, I'm doubtful that Orochimaru was with the Akatsuki for such a long time of 3 years you propose, didn't he go there for the purpose of stealing Itachi's body after all? I see it that they left the village, entered and even left the Akatsuki all of that in a single year.
Appearance isn't a good argument when it comes to Kishimoto I know, but Kabuto looked much older than 10 then, same for his doppelganger on the photos, if Danzo was to convince Nono that some adult looking guy is her 10 years old "son" then she would have had to have been retarded.
Don't worry Fox, we are just discussing, no word about trying to correct anything was given, it's just a chat. @Seel:
You might as well be right, so be it if that's the case. And I said that appearance and intelligence aren't enough of an argument myself, Itachi is a good example at where it's faulty, but just because it tends to be doesn't mean it has to each time. Generally 9-10 years old boys (depends on if you believe that he in fact graduated or didn't but was given fake data) look nothing like Kabuto did in the latest episode ;) Either Kishi's pencil is getting all drawn out or Kabuto eats lots of fruits and vegetables.
I'm gonna end this with what I said earlier, if almost two decades can easily be turned by Kishi into "about one decade" then over 10 years ago might be 6-7 years.--Elveonora (talk) 12:05, November 3, 2013 (UTC)
I'm not expecting you to add my timeline information to any article. This is more of a prediction and when the manga is finished and (hopefully) everything is clear, I can say "ha! told you so!". :)
Maybe we should think that Orochimaru's departure from the village isn't synonymous with him leaving the root. He might have left the village "over 10 years ago" (14 by now) but hadn't the root until later on perhaps? :D Who knows... anyway, kinda offtopic, but I wonder what's with Yamato, I will lol if Kishi forgets about him completely--Elveonora (talk) 14:58, November 3, 2013 (UTC)
@Seel, I guess this Kabuto timeline of yours is the best it can possibly be with all the currently present information, still think it's wrong and not because I'm stubborn or unable to admit being mistaken, but because my guts tell me so ^_ either the formerly "more than 10 years ago" has been retconned, or him leaving both the village and the root are two separate events. My version just fits sooo well, damn you chapter 121 T_T --Elveonora (talk) 21:23, November 3, 2013 (UTC)
As of DB4 Elveonora is right, it says in that one info box that Nono found Kabuto 18 years before the war, 24-18 is 6.. Elve you were not given the Obito age you wanted but your Kabuto timeline came though lol ItachiWasAHero (talk) 07:07, November 18, 2014 (UTC)
Jūgo and the Juin Edit
Chapter 349 (Karin): So, from Jūgo's body fluids, Orochimaru developed an enzyme which causes the same condition in other shinobi.
Chapter 579 (Kabuto): Wrong... The Juin is just a pretension. That power only comes from mastering one's own body... at the Ryūchidō.
Chapter 579 (Kabuto): Listen... Originally Jūgō's clan had special bodies that take in natural energy.
Chapter 579 (Kabuto): And then he finally found out that the source of that power... was the Ryūchidō.
Chapter 593 (Jūgō): In my village this is called Senninka... originally my transformation is the same. However, my copies' transformation is called Juinka.
Chapter 593 (Orochimaru): I injected my Senjutsu chakra into the Juin... it's also a separated part of my consciousness.
Chapter 593 (Jūgō): No... that's not it. He undid the Senninka and took his own chakra from inside of Kabuto[...]
Chapter 648 (Orochimaru): Originally Jūgō's Juin is Senjutsu power. Sasuke-kun could easily release the Juin I once injected with Jūgō's chakra during my experiments.
Magnet Release and sand Edit
The following questions need to be answered before we can say for a fact that sand control is Jiton:
I could only think of these answers, they're of course pure speculation:
Eye markings and Jiton
= the markings are most likely not related to Jiton (3 of 4 cases) and should not be treated as if they were (in the articles).
= Shukaku is not the (only) source of Jiton. Saying Gaara can use Jiton because of Shukaku is speculation, since there are three other Jiton user which can use it without ever being Shukaku's Jinchuriki. Also, Naruto can't use Jiton on his own despite being Shukaku's Jinchuriki.
Is SPS the mother technique for TSB or can one have TSB without using SPS? Edit
So, there seems to be a bit of a confusion about if the Six Paths Senjutsu is a mother technique of the Truth-Seeking Balls or if you can obtain the TSB without using SPS. Let's see if I can bring some light into this matter:
The term Six Paths Senjutsu was used for the first time by Madara. He noticed the SPS bloomed in Naruto (yes, he used that word) and said that he himself possessed that power, too. However, there was no further explanation about what exactly the SPS is. The accompanying picture, however, only shows the markings on Naruto's back, not the TSB.
Since both possess this power, let's see what they have in common and what not: Both possess fragments of all nine tailed beasts, but only Naruto has met Hagoromo and received some of his power. Since Madara has the same SPS without meeting Hagoromo, it's highly likely that Naruto didn't get them from the sage, either. This in turn makes it highly likely that having all nine tailed beasts in ones body result in the SPS.
Now for another user of the TSB, Obito. He didn't meet Hagoromo either, but he too possessed fragments of the 9TB and the TSB. However, he managed to create a TSB when he wasn't the Jinchuriki of the 9TB anymore. He did it by using Black Zetsu, which in turn was created from Kaguya's will. And here's the part where I don't know what to do: Is Will Materialization YYR or what is it?
I have no idea from this point onwards. I simply can't wrap my head around this topic. This is actually the first time I'm at a loss of ideas.