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  • In Naruto to awaken the rinnegan is much more difficult than arousing the tenseigan. To awaken the tenseigan it is necessary to implant the byakugan of a hyuuga in an ootsutsuki of the moon, by that logic to implant cells of an ootsutsuki of the moon in a hyuuga with byakugan would also work, as well as to implant the cells of hashirama (Ashura) in madara (Indra ) originated the rinnegan, and also the same would be valid if the eien no mangekyou of madara (Indra) in hashirama (Ashura) was implanted.

    The difference in difficulty lies in the fact that the rinnegan requires the EIEN NO MANGEKYOU SHARINGAN of a reincarnation of INDRA along with the cells (chakra) of an ASHURA reincarnation, while the tenseigan required a byakugan of a hyuuga and the cells (chakra) an ootsutsuki of the moon.

    The interpretation that it is only possible to awaken the rinnegan with the reincarnations of INDRA and ASHURA occurred coincidentally by the fact that only madara, Indra's reincarnation, managed the rinnegan by implanting hashirama cells (Ashura's reincarnation), and later, sasuke who is also Indra's reincarnation along with the other "half" Ashura won by the hagoromo.

    But my opinion is that this did not happen because they are reincarnations, but rather because they managed to reach the eien no mangekyou sharingan level. In the story of Naruto the only ones that reached that level were Indra, Madara and Sasuke, so Madara reached that level and got Senju cells and Sasuke also reached that level and got his own chakra of the hagoromo, thus getting them both to wake the rinnegan.

    I have already seen many asking why Obito did not awaken the rinnegan, the fact that Obito did not awaken the rinnegan was not because he was not a reincarnation of INDRA, but because he never achieved the level of EIEN NO MANGEKYOU SHARINGAN, besides the fact have only one sharingan.

    I see that Sarada has the possibility of awakening the rinnegan if she implanted the hashirama cells and if he reached the level of the eien no mangekyou sharingan.

    Agree?

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    • SenjuMadara2 wrote:

      The difference in difficulty lies in the fact that the rinnegan requires the EIEN NO MANGEKYOU SHARINGAN of a reincarnation of INDRA along with the cells (chakra) of an ASHURA reincarnation

      No it doesn't. All that's needed is the chakra of an Indra to mix with an Ashura, as per Black Zetsu's explanation. Sharingan and stuff not needed.

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    • So even without an eien no mangekyou sharingan it would be possible to wake up a rinnegan? So why did not Naruto wake up the rinnegan?

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    • Naruto did not get Sasuke, Madara, or Hagoromo's DNA. He only borrowed half of Hagoromo's chakra. If he actually had a flesh/dna implant Naruto would have awakened the Rinnegan, but since he did not have the DNA implanted he did not. Sasuke and Madara each had actual Hashirama DNA implanted into them.. they each awakened Rinnegan. I think that makes it clear enough.

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    • FlatZone wrote: Naruto did not get Sasuke, Madara, or Hagoromo's DNA. He only borrowed half of Hagoromo's chakra. If he actually had a flesh/dna implant Naruto would have awakened the Rinnegan, but since he did not have the DNA implanted he did not. Sasuke and Madara each had actual Hashirama DNA implanted into them.. they each awakened Rinnegan. I think that makes it clear enough.


      sasuke won the hagoromo chakra and so aroused the rinnegan, Naruto also gained hagoromo chakra and therefore should also have awakened the rinnegan then.

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    • Kabuto used Hashirama's DNA to repair Sasuke's heart when Madara stabbed him right through it. Being gifted some Hag chakra boosted the awakening process for him, as without it he would have awakened it years down the line just like how Madara did. Naruto did not gain any flesh/dna from anybody at all, he only was gifted some Hagoromo chakra too. It's really just that simple.

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    • FlatZone wrote: Kabuto used Hashirama's DNA to repair Sasuke's heart when Madara stabbed him right through it. Being gifted some Hag chakra boosted the awakening process for him, as without it he would have awakened it years down the line just like how Madara did. Naruto did not gain any flesh/dna from anybody at all, he only was gifted some Hagoromo chakra too. It's really just that simple.

      Did kabuto give hashirama cells to sasuke? Where did you see that?

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    • It's when Kabuto healed Sasuke during the 4th War, the translation shows that he used Hashirama's DNA to repair Sasuke's heart.

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    • Hago gave Sasuke half of his chakra directly. That is the reason why he awakened the Rinnegan. It had nothing to do with Hashi's cells being transplanted into his body.

      If that was the case, then Naruto would have awakened the Rinnegan after Tsunade made him an arm cultured from Hashi's cells after the 4th war.

      Hashi was a transmigrant when MAdara took his flesh and implanted it into himself. Because MAdara was a transmigrant too, it allowed Asura and Indra's chakras to mix and bring out Hago's chakra, which eventually turned MAdara's Sharingan into Rinnegan.

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    • So according to this logic, Naruto should have ALSO awakened the Rinnegan, and since Naruto did indeed gain a Hashirama arm that means one thing.. You need the Sharingan too, to be able to awaken the Rinnegan. As ONLY Madara and Sasuke have awakened it after Hagoromo and they have 3 things in common: Sharingan, EMS, and are transmigrants.

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    • Well lets start round (*counts*) 9 of this discussion.

      Princeharris1993 wrote: Hago gave Sasuke half of his chakra directly. That is the reason why he awakened the Rinnegan. It had nothing to do with Hashi's cells being transplanted into his body.

      Sasuke did get hashirama's cells from Kabuto though. Naturally awakening a rinnegan can take ages, so Hagoromo sped up the process and ensured he had only one eye. But getting chakra doesn't give you powers. I don't see alliance veterans running around with Kyubi cloaks anymore. Same with Kakashi not having a Kurama mode. Chakra transfers cannot give powers like that. Gaara doesn't have a Kyubi cloak, the Sound Ninja who stole Sasuke's chakra doesn't have Sharingan, etc etc etc etc etc.

      Hagoromo can take power that's present and alter it (e.g. he turned the Juubi from one being to 9), so that's likely what he did to Naruto and Sasuke: Take what was present and alter it to suit his needs.

      Princeharris1993 wrote: If that was the case, then Naruto would have awakened the Rinnegan after Tsunade made him an arm cultured from Hashi's cells after the 4th war.

      No, Naruto already naturally has Ashura's chakra. He could get his head placed on a Hashirama clone body and it still wouldn't give him a Rinnegan. He needs Madara's or Sasuke's flesh, which he never got.

      Princeharris1993 wrote: which eventually turned MAdara's Sharingan into Rinnegan.

      Probably the source of all confusion, but it didn't. Madara awoke Rinnegan as a separate power from Sharingan. The most obvious piece of evidence here is right as Madara starts fighting after being reanimated. When he puts Ay under Genjutsu he switches back to EMS. It makes no sense if the Rinnegan were a true evolution (MS users don't need to switch to sharingan to use its base powers).

      Sasuke also uses Rinnegan as a separate power (e.g. when he overuses his sharingan power, the tomoe disappear from his Rinnegan but his Rinnegan stays active).

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    • I don't get how people can still be confused about this after years. First and foremost, Hagoromo gave powers to Naruto and Sasuke, he didn't give each the entirety of his chakra, but rather different traits for each. He doesn't want for an individual to have all the powers, hence why he gave SPS to Naruto and Rinnegan for Sasuke.

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    • Elveonora wrote: I don't get how people can still be confused about this after years.

      People still get confused over "hard work was a major theme in Naruto".

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    • Thekillman wrote:

      Elveonora wrote: I don't get how people can still be confused about this after years.

      People still get confused over "hard work was a major theme in Naruto".

      Because it stopped being a theme as of the 4SWW arc.

      People are also confused because many of the details are super vague. Sasuke getting Hashi cells. Supposedly all that is necessary for Rinnegan is to get Hagoromo's chakra. Which Sasuke did.

      Its not specified if Hagoromo specifically gave them their abilities or if thats how they naturally reacted to his chakra or a combination of both.

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    • Hagoromo did give them his chakra, but people for whatever reason believe that Hagoromo granting his chakra to someone, equals the someone receiving all of Hagoromo's powers. Hagoromo specifically made sure that Naruto got SPS and Sasuke Rinnegan, he didn't want Naruto to have the Rinnegan as well, hence why he doesn't.

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    • Everyone is confused that Madara and Sasuke got Rinnegan due to Hashirama's cells?

      Madara and Sasuke are stated to have Indras Chakra, this is without a doubt, fact.

      Hashirama is stated to have Asura's Chakra, this is without a doubt, fact.

      By merging Indra's and Asura's Chakra, you get Rinnegan. This was stated.

      Naruto would not have Rinnegan even with Hashirama's hand, because he doesn't have Indra's chakra. Otsutsuki's prove you don't need Sharingan to get Rinnegan.

      Naruto and Sasuke don't have the souls of Indra and Asura. They just inherited their Chakra and will.

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    • LegionZero wrote: Because it stopped being a theme as of the 4SWW arc.

      It was never a theme. It was Rock Lee's theme, but then his hard work lost against a genius with innate power. Naruto's hard work lost against Neji's genius until he tapped into Kurama (which isn't hard work). Hard work has never won battles.

      The main theme of Naruto is to never give up. Hard work is merely the initial step.

      LegionZero wrote: Its not specified if Hagoromo specifically gave them their abilities or if thats how they naturally reacted to his chakra or a combination of both.

      Databooks says it was hagoromo.

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    • LoneNinja wrote:

      Everyone is confused that Madara and Sasuke got Rinnegan due to Hashirama's cells?

      Because the series makes it cryptic as to whether or not Sasuke actually did and the databook says he got his powers through Hagoromo and IIRC makes no mention of Hashirama cells.

      LoneNinja wrote:

      By merging Indra's and Asura's Chakra, you get Rinnegan. This was stated.

      This is true but the importance of combining those 2 chakras is recreate Hagoromo's chakra. Whom Naruto recieved chakra directly from.

      LoneNinja wrote:

      Naruto would not have Rinnegan even with Hashirama's hand, because he doesn't have Indra's chakra. Otsutsuki's prove you don't need Sharingan to get Rinnegan.

      Actually considering Urashiki has a Sharingan-Rinnegan like Sasuke the two eyes are related somewhat. The truest/original form of each is a combination of both. The Sharingan not being a pre-req doesnt mean that the eyes that hold the Sharingan dont also hold the Rinnegan.

      Thekillman wrote:


      It was never a theme. It was Rock Lee's theme, but then his hard work lost against a genius with innate power. Naruto's hard work lost against Neji's genius until he tapped into Kurama (which isn't hard work). Hard work has never won battles.

      It very much was. Talent vs hard work was always a huge part of the early series. Genius and talent vs hard work and perseverance. Problem is Kishimoto undermines it with the use/presence of Kurama. Learning Summoning jutsu, Rasengan, Nature Transformation, Rasenshuriken, Sage Mode. Kishimoto compketely gave up on the theme by 4SWW by introducing the concept of transmigration, borrowed/gifted/inherited powers, bloodline predestination etc etc.

      Thekillman wrote:

      Databooks says it was hagoromo.

      Thats right. My bad, my bad. But that is still content that even someone who read/watched the series 8 times over wont come across and requires an irritating amount of research. Despite going on this many years after they got their powers there is no in series explaination in any form.

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    • Actually the databook says that the incarnates dont have just chakras of Asura and Indra but also souls as well.

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    • Once a reincarnate always a reincarnate. So I assume that means that Indra and Asuras souls leave behind copies as soon as they get reincarnated into another body again

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    • I don't get where this fanon that hashirama's cells still contain ashura's chakra comes from. Isn't it that when the transmigrants are dead the chakras also leave them to continue the cycle? Hagoromo seems to be alluding that Madara doesn't have indra's chakra after his rebirth, I don't see why this doesn't apply to Hashirama too.

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    • He never alluded to that, not once. It was never hinted nor stated anywhere that Hashi and Madara no longer have the chakras.

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    • @FlatZone, chapter 671 disapproved that. Hagoromo specificially said that the fourth ninja war Madara is no longer transmigrant. So "once a transmigrant always a transmigrant" cannot be applied here.

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    • Nope2937 wrote: I don't get where this fanon that hashirama's cells still contain ashura's chakra comes from. Isn't it that when the transmigrants are dead the chakras also leave them to continue the cycle?

      When Madara and Hashirama are revived, the souls of Indra and Ashura couldn't be because they were in Sasuke and Naruto at the time. However, why would their chakra disappear from still-living cells?

      LegionZero wrote: The Sharingan not being a pre-req doesnt mean that the eyes that hold the Sharingan dont also hold the Rinnegan.

      I think this is where the critical misunderstanding occurs. The eye has two dojutsu, yes. One is sharingan, one is Rinnegan. Sharingan and Rinnegan are related, yes, since both come from the parent eye. However, Sharingan is not a necessary ingredient for Rinnegan. Mangekyou Sharingan is a clear evolution since it has exactly the same powers as a Sharingan, only better. But Rinnegan cannot cast Genjutsu like the Sharingan does. Madara explicitly switched eyes in order to put Ay under genjutsu, which makes no sense in the evolution case. Hence, it cannot be an evolution.

      LegionZero wrote:

      This is true but the importance of combining those 2 chakras is recreate Hagoromo's chakra. Whom Naruto recieved chakra directly from.

      Aside from the fact that i think this is analogous to the Biju (combining the biju chakra recreates the Juubi, which grants powers not present in any component chakra) and so the "non-standard chakra" unlike the "standard chakra" given to naruto and sasuke..... Hagoromo clearly stated that he thought no one person should hold all the power. He has it within him to split chakra as he sees fit as per the Juubi, so he could simply ensure that Naruto wouldn't awaken Rinnegan.

      LegionZero wrote: Problem is Kishimoto undermines it with the use/presence of Kurama.

      This has been a thing from pretty much the start. Even Haku could only be defeated with Kurama. A power he learned to control because he never gave up on trying to control it, even when it literally ate his skin. For certain characters it was about hard work. But as a general theme? not so much. If it were, Rock Lee would never have lost to Gaara, the very embodiment of innate power and genius.

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    • Anyway, the reason why Obito did not awaken the Rinnegan is because Obito wasn't Indra's incarnate.

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    • LegionZero wrote:

      LoneNinja wrote:

      Everyone is confused that Madara and Sasuke got Rinnegan due to Hashirama's cells?

      Because the series makes it cryptic as to whether or not Sasuke actually did and the databook says he got his powers through Hagoromo and IIRC makes no mention of Hashirama cells.

      LoneNinja wrote:

      By merging Indra's and Asura's Chakra, you get Rinnegan. This was stated.

      This is true but the importance of combining those 2 chakras is recreate Hagoromo's chakra. Whom Naruto recieved chakra directly from.

      LoneNinja wrote:

      Naruto would not have Rinnegan even with Hashirama's hand, because he doesn't have Indra's chakra. Otsutsuki's prove you don't need Sharingan to get Rinnegan.

      Actually considering Urashiki has a Sharingan-Rinnegan like Sasuke the two eyes are related somewhat. The truest/original form of each is a combination of both. The Sharingan not being a pre-req doesnt mean that the eyes that hold the Sharingan dont also hold the Rinnegan.

      Thekillman wrote:


      It was never a theme. It was Rock Lee's theme, but then his hard work lost against a genius with innate power. Naruto's hard work lost against Neji's genius until he tapped into Kurama (which isn't hard work). Hard work has never won battles.

      It very much was. Talent vs hard work was always a huge part of the early series. Genius and talent vs hard work and perseverance. Problem is Kishimoto undermines it with the use/presence of Kurama. Learning Summoning jutsu, Rasengan, Nature Transformation, Rasenshuriken, Sage Mode. Kishimoto compketely gave up on the theme by 4SWW by introducing the concept of transmigration, borrowed/gifted/inherited powers, bloodline predestination etc etc.

      Thekillman wrote:

      Databooks says it was hagoromo.

      Thats right. My bad, my bad. But that is still content that even someone who read/watched the series 8 times over wont come across and requires an irritating amount of research. Despite going on this many years after they got their powers there is no in series explaination in any form.


      Exactly, Naruto received the chakra directly from the hagoromo, if the only requirement to awaken the rinnegan is to reach the hagoromo chakra, Naruto would have already awakened the rinnegan.

      The rinnegan is not the evolution of the sharingan, they are separated, however they have some relation with one another. I believe that in addition to achieving the Hagoromo chakra it is necessary to have the sharingan to awaken the rinnegan.

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    • @Elve

      What page in the Databook. Cause that makes no sense. How is Madara and Hashirama able to be edo tensei if their souls are in Naruto and Sasuke already?

      Reincarnation nakes note that only the Chakra and will is passed on, nothing about the soul.

      @Legion

      I don't see anything cryptic about it. Kabuto stated he was using Hashirama's cells and his healing to heal Sasuke. Can't get anymore obvious than that.

      You also don't need Sharingan to get Rinnegan, that cannot be argued with. Momoshiki has nothing other than Rinnegan. Kaguya has none other than Rinne-Sharingan, Sharingan is a mutation of Rinnegan which is a mutation of Rinne-Sharingan. You guys are looking at the evolution like this,

      Sharingan -> Mangekyo -> Eternal Mangekyo -> Rinnegan -> Rinne-Sharingan.

      When you should be looking at it like this.

      Rinne-Sharingan -> Rinnegan -> all Sharingans.


      Kaguya and the Otsutsukis shown you don't need a Sharingan. Now whether if Hagaromo started with Sharingan or not, can be debated. He had it in A Canon but not K Canon. K Canon stated what he had was a Kekkei Mora. K Canon > A Canon. But Momoshiki has shown he has Rinnegan and not Sharingan.

      What Sasuke's and Urashiki's eye is can only be theorized. It can be another new mutation. It can be a mutation in between Rinne-Sharingan and Rinnegan. It can be something else. It will probably be explained later on when Urashiki is further developed in the story.

      @SenjuMadara

      Momoshiki and Urashiki destroy that theory of needing Sharingan. The fact that they even have Rinnegan shows that you don't need Hagoromo's Chakra anymore and therefore is retconned. How would they get Chakra from someone they never met? I used to somewhat think that it was possible that you needed EMS, but then they were introduced and that theory was no longer possible too me.

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    • Thekillman wrote:

      Nope2937 wrote: I don't get where this fanon that hashirama's cells still contain ashura's chakra comes from. Isn't it that when the transmigrants are dead the chakras also leave them to continue the cycle?

      When Madara and Hashirama are revived, the souls of Indra and Ashura couldn't be because they were in Sasuke and Naruto at the time. However, why would their chakra disappear from still-living cells?

      Oh well this is where we differ then. I do think their chakra move on with the cycle, instead of staying with each cells.

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    • Not sure about the page, but the book literally mentions souls transmigrating. The way I umderstand it and it makes semse, is that the incarnates have 2 souls inside of their bodies, their own and that of Indra/Asura.

      Obviously Edo Madara and Edo Hashirama were no longer incarnates, since the souls had moved into Sasuke and Naruto, respectively.

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    • LoneNinja wrote:

      I don't see anything cryptic about it. Kabuto stated he was using Hashirama's cells and his healing to heal Sasuke. Can't get anymore obvious than that.

      Not in every translation and even the official ones arent always accurate. I cant seem to get the translator on here around here to give me a clear translation and ive had this discussion many many times before.

      LoneNinja wrote:

      You also don't need Sharingan to get Rinnegan, that cannot be argued with. Momoshiki has nothing other than Rinnegan. Kaguya has none other than Rinne-Sharingan, Sharingan is a mutation of Rinnegan which is a mutation of Rinne-Sharingan. You guys are looking at the evolution like this,

      Sharingan -> Mangekyo -> Eternal Mangekyo -> Rinnegan -> Rinne-Sharingan.

      When you should be looking at it like this.

      Rinne-Sharingan -> Rinnegan -> all Sharingans.

      I look at it as the eye that holds the Sharingan also holds the Rinnegan.

      RinneSharingan->Sharinga+Rinnegan->Rinne->Eye of the descendant

      RinneSharingan->Sharingan+Rinnegan->MS->Sharingan->Eye of the descendant

      I think of it as the 2 seperate dojutsu with seperate pre-reqs that lie dormant in the eyes of distant descendants of the original RinneSharingan bearer. I think the eye just needs 6 Paths chakra of to awaken the Rinnegan, not specifically Hagoromo's. Rinnegan seems to be dominant over the Sharingan.

      The more diluted the bloodline becomes, the less likely they are to have Rinnegan, allowing the Sharingan to manifest.

      Since pretty much every Otsutsuki has 6 Paths chakra, chances are that they wont have just the Sharingan.

      LoneNinja wrote:

      Momoshiki and Urashiki destroy that theory of needing Sharingan. The fact that they even have Rinnegan shows that you don't need Hagoromo's Chakra anymore and therefore is retconned.

      Not necessarily a retcon. Until Momo and Ura showed up, Hagoromo was the only person on Earth to have a Rinnegan and as a result only his chakra carried the traits necessary to obtain it.

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    • People make a much bigger mess out of it than it really is. The Sharingan and Rinnegan being evolutions/devolutions whatever of each other was nothing but a hypothesis by Kabuto and Orochimaru, which has since been debunked on several accounts.

      The Sharingan and Rinnegan are sibling doujutsu to each other, with Rinne Sharingan being the parent. So it doesn't really go Rinne Sharingan > Rinnegan > Sharingan, but Rinne Sharingan > Rinnegan & Sharingan. The Sharingan part got passed down Indra's line, while the Rinnegan genes/chakra got split between Indra and Asura and further got diluted in their descendants, hence why a random Senju's chakra + random Uchiha's chakra doesn't produce the Rinnegan.

      Hell, not even the Sharingan is 100% present among the Uchiha, it was stated only a few within the clan ever awakened it, meaning the majority of the Uchiha in history must have been Sharingan-less.

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    • LegionZero wrote:

      LoneNinja wrote:

      I don't see anything cryptic about it. Kabuto stated he was using Hashirama's cells and his healing to heal Sasuke. Can't get anymore obvious than that.

      Not in every translation and even the official ones arent always accurate. I cant seem to get the translator on here around here to give me a clear translation and ive had this discussion many many times before.

      LoneNinja wrote:

      You also don't need Sharingan to get Rinnegan, that cannot be argued with. Momoshiki has nothing other than Rinnegan. Kaguya has none other than Rinne-Sharingan, Sharingan is a mutation of Rinnegan which is a mutation of Rinne-Sharingan. You guys are looking at the evolution like this,

      Sharingan -> Mangekyo -> Eternal Mangekyo -> Rinnegan -> Rinne-Sharingan.

      When you should be looking at it like this.

      Rinne-Sharingan -> Rinnegan -> all Sharingans.

      I look at it as the eye that holds the Sharingan also holds the Rinnegan.

      RinneSharingan->Sharinga+Rinnegan->Rinne->Eye of the descendant

      RinneSharingan->Sharingan+Rinnegan->MS->Sharingan->Eye of the descendant

      I think of it as the 2 seperate dojutsu with seperate pre-reqs that lie dormant in the eyes of distant descendants of the original RinneSharingan bearer. I think the eye just needs 6 Paths chakra of to awaken the Rinnegan, not specifically Hagoromo's. Rinnegan seems to be dominant over the Sharingan.

      The more diluted the bloodline becomes, the less likely they are to have Rinnegan, allowing the Sharingan to manifest.

      Since pretty much every Otsutsuki has 6 Paths chakra, chances are that they wont have just the Sharingan.

      LoneNinja wrote:

      Momoshiki and Urashiki destroy that theory of needing Sharingan. The fact that they even have Rinnegan shows that you don't need Hagoromo's Chakra anymore and therefore is retconned.

      Not necessarily a retcon. Until Momo and Ura showed up, Hagoromo was the only person on Earth to have a Rinnegan and as a result only his chakra carried the traits necessary to obtain it.

      The only ootsutsuki that had rinnesharingan was the kaguya and the other ootsutsukis had only had the rinnegan so far. The hagoromo is very close to the ootsutsuki so it supported and awakened the rinnegan and had no sharingan and his descendant awakened the sharingan, kaguya heritage.

      What I believe LegionZero meant is that only a human capable of awakening / supporting a sharingan would be able to do the same thing with rinnegan.

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    • For all we know Hagoromo had the Sharingan as well, I know the filler doesn't count, but I mean in canon. Not show or stated =/= false, it's still possibly true.

      Also no, there is no evidence you need to have the Sharingan in order to awaken the Rinnegan. That's simply the way Kaguya's powers split in her descendants.

      Momoshiki supports there having been an earlier Otsutsuki than Kaguya possibly with Rinne Sharingan.

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    • Wait if Hagomoro gave all of his chakra to Asura, back when Asura was consider to be the successor of Hagomoro then how come Asura didn't awaken the rinnegan ? He had Hagomoro's chakra yet he could only use six path sage mode. Plus if Hagomoro purposely gave Naruto the spsm and sasuke rinnegan because he didn't want another war between his kids, Asura was given hagomoro's full Chakra and his abilities, it was never shown that hagomoro gave Asura selected abilities like Naruto but still Asura didn't awaken the rinnegan.

      Not including otsutsuki, at least for Asura Indra transmigrants a sharingan is a necessity. Maybe otsutsuki don't need a sharingan but for Asura Indra transmigrants they do need a sharingan to evolve into rinnegan.

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    • @SenjuMadara: basically

      @Soloking: Asura was never confirmed to have SPSM

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    • Hagoromo didn't give all his chakra to Asura, where do people come up with this nonsense? Some would even argue if Hagoromo had given any power to Asura whatsoever, as some say the manga is vague about this, although to me it really isn't. Some may say that the power Hagoromo meant as having given to Asura was the leadership of Ninshu, rather than some actual power, but that's clearly dumb imo.

      In anime filler, Hagoromo gave Asura SPS, no such thing shown in manga, although it can be deduced from Asura's avatar having TSB.

      Whatever the case, Hagoromo giving power to Asura doesn't equal giving him all the powers.

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      20:51, November 15, 2018
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    • Elveonora wrote: Hagoromo didn't give all his chakra to Asura, where do people come up with this nonsense? Some would even argue if Hagoromo had given any power to Asura whatsoever, as some say the manga is vague about this, although to me it really isn't. Some may say that the power Hagoromo meant as having given to Asura was the leadership of Ninshu, rather than some actual power, but that's clearly dumb imo.

      In anime filler, Hagoromo gave Asura SPS, no such thing shown in manga, although it can be deduced from Asura's avatar having TSB.

      Whatever the case, Hagoromo giving power to Asura doesn't equal giving him all the powers.


      This story that the hagoromo gives the powers he chooses seems more of an excuse, what he gave to Asura, Naruto and Sasuke was only one thing, his chakra. Madara, a reincarnation, implanted the hashirama cells, Asura's reincarnation, and managed to reach the hagoromo chakra. How did the asura in person who received the chakra of the hagoromo himself aroused nothing? Or the Naruto who got it, too? The only ones who awakened the rinnegan were the two reincarnations of Indra. And what do they have in common? - A sharingan


      Exactly @Soloking itachi15. And I think it works only for transmigrants.

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    • @Senju: its not an excuse, though. It was an explaination from the databook.

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    • LegionZero wrote: @Senju: its not an excuse, though. It was an explaination from the databook.


      So bro, something wrong is not right ahaha.

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    • Hard to say its wrong when its a completely original concept that the creator sets the rules for....

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    • You can't rule out one group of people because it disproves your theory. Otsutsuki's awaken Rinnegan without Sharingan. Therefore anyone else can by doing their same method until the series states otherwise. Just because they're Otsutsuki doesn't mean the logic of the Narutoverse doesn't apply to them.

      @Elve The page of the wiki makes no mention of that. Care to give an exact page so I can read it myself, I can't find it in Shi no Sho or the Jin no Sho.

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    • @Lone: 4th databook. This i know for sure.

      I believe it is Sasuke's entry... something along the lines of the Rinnegan being a gift from Hagoromo.

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    • @Legion

      Thanks I'll look into it.

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    • Hagoromo literally said that a single individual shouldn't have all the power, so even if Hagoromo gave some power to Asura, he didn't all of his powers, so stop with the Rinnegan nonsense, as that's clearly against his philosophy.

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    • Elveonora wrote: Hagoromo literally said that a single individual shouldn't have all the power, so even if Hagoromo gave some power to Asura, he didn't all of his powers, so stop with the Rinnegan nonsense, as that's clearly against his philosophy.

      He didnt adopt that way of thinking until he saw his children fight until they died just to be reborn and repeat the cycle over and over for generations on end. Hagoromo even said he made a mistake by leaving everything for only one son

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    • Not really, that way of thinking dates back to splitting the Jubi into 9.

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    • hagomoro gave sasuke and naruto equal chakra and abilities as he didn't want a repeat of his past mistake. He felt that if he left everything to Naruto his powers and abilities then the same would happen as it did with Indra. Indra got pissed as hagomoro made Asura his successor and gave his six path powers to Asura alone.

      Hagomoro's philosophy of not giving a single individual complete power was after he saw his two sons battle it out for his legacy. There is no indication given that Asura was given only a part of hagomoro abilities. If hagomoro didn't care about Indra and made Asura his successor ,then he obviously would have given him his complete six path chakra( which could have given him a spsm ).

      Otsutsuki's are aliens with no relationship to humans. Only hagomoro was a cross of alien and human. You cannot compare otsutsuki physiology and abilities to that of humans. They have rinnegan on their hands and only urashiki has a rinnegan in his left eye. At least for hagomoro and his transmigrants, for them to achieve the rinnegan ,they need to have a base sharingan. For an uchiha to awaken the rinnegan he needs to have indra's chakra and a sharingan. There has been no person on Naruto earth who awakened a rinnegan without a sharingan.

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    • Soloking wrote:

      Indra got pissed as hagomoro made Asura his successor and gave his six path powers to Asura alone.

      This wasnt confirmed to have happened.

      Soloking wrote:

      At least for hagomoro and his transmigrants, for them to achieve the rinnegan ,they need to have a base sharingan.

      Hagoromo doesnt have transmigrants

      Soloking wrote:

      For an uchiha to awaken the rinnegan he needs to have indra's chakra and a sharingan. There has been no person on Naruto earth who awakened a rinnegan without a sharingan.

      I think you mean Asura

      Elveonora wrote: Not really, that way of thinking dates back to splitting the Jubi into 9.

      Clearly not because he left everything to Asura and nothing for Indra.

      He didnt even give the Tailed Beasts equal power...

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    • Soloking itachi15 wrote:

      Otsutsuki's are aliens with no relationship to humans. Only hagomoro was a cross of alien and human. You cannot compare otsutsuki physiology and abilities to that of humans.

      Their physiology is different, they have different rinnegans in different places, different byakugans as well.

      Soloking itachi15 wrote:

      There has been no person on Naruto earth who awakened a rinnegan without a sharingan.

      Hagoromo did not have sharingan, but you yourself said about it being a cross between Otsutsukis and humans.

      Soloking itachi15 wrote:

      For an uchiha to awaken the rinnegan he needs to have indra's chakra and a sharingan.

      They need to have Asura's chakra and a sharingan.

      LegionZero wrote:

      Clearly not because he left everything to Asura and nothing for Indra.

      Hagoromo gave everything to Asura and he did not awaken the rinnegan, for me this is already evidence that humans also need a sharingan, not only the six path chakra.

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    • Uchihas don't have Indra's chakra by default. The only people who had Indra's chakra throughout the history were Sasuke and Madara. And having the sharingan is also not required to have a rinnegan. The only recorded way (for humans at least) to awaken the rinnegan is to gather both Indra's and Asura's parts, which is what Madara and Sasuke did. Naruto didn't receive from Hagoromo Indra's chakra/DNA whatever.

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    • Vladosaurus wrote:

      Naruto didn't receive from Hagoromo Indra's chakra/DNA whatever.

      Naruto did not receive by Hagoromo the Indra's chakra, he received by Hagoromo THE Hagoromo's chakra.

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    • You need the SOURCE. You need the DNA/Flesh of a transmigrant.. which Sasuke and Madara each had the DNA/Flesh of Hashirama implanted into their hearts to repair their hearts preventing them from dying from the grievous wound. Madara did not have Hagoromo around to gift him some chakra in order to lessen the time it takes to awaken the Rinnegan, unlike Sasuke. So if Naruto and Hashirama wanted to get the Rinnegan they would need to implant Sasuke or Madara's flesh/dna into their bodies which I supposed implanting their eyeballs could work too. That is why Naruto did not get Rinnegan.

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    • FlatZone wrote: You need the SOURCE. You need the DNA/Flesh of a transmigrant.. which Sasuke and Madara each had the DNA/Flesh of Hashirama implanted into their hearts to repair their hearts preventing them from dying from the grievous wound. Madara did not have Hagoromo around to gift him some chakra in order to lessen the time it takes to awaken the Rinnegan, unlike Sasuke. So if Naruto and Hashirama wanted to get the Rinnegan they would need to implant Sasuke or Madara's flesh/dna into their bodies which I supposed implanting their eyeballs could work too. That is why Naruto did not get Rinnegan.

      FlatZone, where it is said in the databook or in the manga that kabuto used hashirama's cells to heal Sasuke? (For me to read), because for me Kabuto only used medical ninjutsu in Sasuke.

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    • Kabuto stated that he used Hashirama's cells to heal Sasuke. Read the chapter where he is healing him and talking to Orochimaru.

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    • Sorry about my previous statement, I meant for an Asura reincarnate to awaken the rinnegan he needs indra's chakra and a sharingan.

      @Vlad about that Kabuto healing Sasuke part, doesn't Kabuto say he is healing Sasuke with the knowledge he learnt from Hashirama's cells. I mean in the anime you can see something being transferred from Kabuto to sasuke along the snake. But via statements he said he is healing sasuke's wounds from the knowledge of hashi cell working. Maybe he healed it just the way Sakura does it or it was a offshoot of tsunade's hundred seal technique.

      About the flesh of Asura reincarnate, maybe the flesh is required for an Indra reincarnate because when the flesh is implanted in the body ,it's contains Asura chakra and it takes time for the Asura chakra and inbuilt Indra chakra to mix up together and only then the combined chakra when released into the eye gives rise to the rinnegan. Only pumping Asura chakra into a Indra body may result in increasing the overall chakra but the mixing of chakra may not take place. The flesh keeps pumping chakra into the body and in time the chakra slowly mixes and then recreates hagomoro's chakra.

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    • FlatZone wrote: You need the SOURCE. You need the DNA/Flesh of a transmigrant.. which Sasuke and Madara each had the DNA/Flesh of Hashirama implanted into their hearts to repair their hearts preventing them from dying from the grievous wound. Madara did not have Hagoromo around to gift him some chakra in order to lessen the time it takes to awaken the Rinnegan, unlike Sasuke. So if Naruto and Hashirama wanted to get the Rinnegan they would need to implant Sasuke or Madara's flesh/dna into their bodies which I supposed implanting their eyeballs could work too. That is why Naruto did not get Rinnegan.

      Wait wait, so you are saying that recieving Hagoromo's chakra by using his childrens' chakra as a proxy but recieving chakra Hagoromo's chakra from Hagoromo himself doesnt activate Rinnegan?

      Regarding the Hashirama cell thing, he just looks like he is doing that thing Juugo does to heal Sasuke IMO. Sasuke literally had no chest after B's Lariat and that healed him up pretty quick. Sasuke has displayed none of the benefits of Hashirama's cells or a Hashirama face so i doubt he has any.

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    • Neither did Madara or Naruto or Obito. Madara needed a Hashi face on his chest. Naruto has a Hashi arm yet still no. Obito needed Tobi to be able to use Wood Release. So Wood Release is def part of Hashi's DNA but something about his head/face is what makes it usable, hence Danzo and Madara being able to use it when they had the faces. Madara even says he wanted to try them out when he realized he had a Hashi face on his chest.

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    • LegionZero wrote:

      Regarding the Hashirama cell thing, he just looks like he is doing that thing Juugo does to heal Sasuke IMO. Sasuke literally had no chest after B's Lariat and that healed him up pretty quick. Sasuke has displayed none of the benefits of Hashirama's cells or a Hashirama face so i doubt he has any.

      That is a great possibility. To me he did not use hashirama cells in Sasuke.

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    • "Otsutsuki's are aliens with no relationship to humans. Only hagomoro was a cross of alien and human. You cannot compare otsutsuki physiology and abilities to that of humans. They have rinnegan on their hands and only urashiki has a rinnegan in his left eye. At least for hagomoro and his transmigrants, for them to achieve the rinnegan ,they need to have a base sharingan. For an uchiha to awaken the rinnegan he needs to have indra's chakra and a sharingan. There has been no person on Naruto earth who awakened a rinnegan without a sharingan."

      This was a riot to read. Why can't I compare how an Otsutsuki awakens Rinnegan and a human? What evidence does anyone have that the awakening of Rinnegan is different due to Otsutsuki genes? Nothing.

      That very last sentence too. There hasn't been a single Eight Gates user without bushy eyebrows, but that ain't a requirement. Momoshiki doesn't have Sharingan. Therefore it's not a requirement, for anyone until proven otherwise.

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    • Kabuto said that he is using Hashirama’s cells that he researched (meaning that he knows about its healing abilities) to save Sasuke’s life. So he IS using Hashirama’s cells knowing about it’s healing abilities to try and save Sasuke’s life. So don’t even try it...

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    • 'Yawn' come on people, stick to facts. The Sharingan is not needed for the Rinnegan. Also there is no evidence that an Asura incarnate would need the Sharingan to get the Rinnegan.

      The only thing needed for the Rinnegan is Hagoromo's chakra, which can also be recreated by merger of Asura and Indra's chakras. The Sharingan comes automatically with Indra's chakra, but it's not a requirement for the Rinnegan, it's just what Indra inherited.

      And before you for the 1000000th time start to freak that 'NARUTO GOT HAGOROMO'S CHAKRA BUT NO RINNEGAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!' For the final time, think of chakra similar to genes. Hagoromo's entire chakra is one thing, but the chakra itself has many traits that make the whole, he gave Naruto a part of his many traits and different part to Sasuke.

      Naruto doesn't literally have Hagoromo's chakra, just a small piece of it. Sasuke though, does have Hagoromo's chakra, hence the Rinnegan. But unlike Naruto, Sasuke does't have Tailed Beast chakra/s nor Six Paths Senjutsu.

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    • Elveonora wrote: 'Yawn' come on people, stick to facts. The Sharingan is not needed for the Rinnegan. Also there is no evidence that an Asura incarnate would need the Sharingan to get the Rinnegan.

      The only thing needed for the Rinnegan is Hagoromo's chakra, which can also be recreated by merger of Asura and Indra's chakras. The Sharingan comes automatically with Indra's chakra, but it's not a requirement for the Rinnegan, it's just what Indra inherited.

      And before you for the 1000000th time start to freak that 'NARUTO GOT HAGOROMO'S CHAKRA BUT NO RINNEGAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!' For the final time, think of chakra similar to genes. Hagoromo's entire chakra is one thing, but the chakra itself has many traits that make the whole, he gave Naruto a part of his many traits and different part to Sasuke.

      Naruto doesn't literally have Hagoromo's chakra, just a small piece of it. Sasuke though, does have Hagoromo's chakra, hence the Rinnegan. But unlike Naruto, Sasuke does't have Tailed Beast chakra/s nor Six Paths Senjutsu.


      Madara implanted the hashirama's cells, now he has both parts, awakened the rinnegan and won the mokuton. Then Kabuto "implanted" hashirama's cells in Sasuke, now he has both parts, so he awakened the rinnegan and ... So where is the mokuton?

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    • @Senju

      Where's Sasuke's Hashirama replica on his chest? Cause you're forgetting that's what gave Madara Wood Release and Sage Mode. Not everyone with Hashirama's DNA has it either. Obito didn't have it. Zetsu. Yamato. Etc. Madara is the only one I recall, obtaining it after experiments from either him or Kabuto.

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    • Obito did get it.

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    • @Elve

      Obito has Hashirama's face on him? I'm talking about that, not Wood Release. Madara stated on chapter 657 that was due to what Kabuto did too him. That face was the reason Madara was able to use Wood Release and Sage Mode.

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    • LoneNinja wrote: @Senju

      Where's Sasuke's Hashirama replica on his chest? Cause you're forgetting that's what gave Madara Wood Release and Sage Mode. Not everyone with Hashirama's DNA has it either. Obito didn't have it. Zetsu. Yamato. Etc. Madara is the only one I recall, obtaining it after experiments from either him or Kabuto.


      Madara with the face of the hashirama had the mokuton, Obito and Yamato without the face of Hashirama also had the mokuton, so having the face of the Hashirama is not prerequisite to having the mokuton, only having the cells is enough and Sasuke "has" the cells and awoke the rinegan, ie the hashirama's cells had effect on his body. So he should have mokuton. Why not?

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    • @Senju

      Not in the case of Naruto, so wrong.

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    • FlatZone wrote:

      Neither did Madara or Naruto or Obito.

      Naruto's arm is a prosthetic, not an implant.

      FlatZone wrote:

      Madara needed a Hashi face on his chest. Naruto has a Hashi arm yet still no. Obito needed Tobi to be able to use Wood Release. So Wood Release is def part of Hashi's DNA but something about his head/face is what makes it usable, hence Danzo and Madara being able to use it when they had the faces.

      Yamato.

      FlatZone wrote:

      Madara even says he wanted to try them out when he realized he had a Hashi face on his chest.

      Madara didnt even realize his Edo body Hashirama's cells at all until his Rinnegan activated and he made no mention of the Hashi face being specifically making him want to use Wood release

      Elveonora wrote:

      Naruto doesn't literally have Hagoromo's chakra, just a small piece of it. Sasuke though, does have Hagoromo's chakra, hence the Rinnegan. But unlike Naruto, Sasuke does't have Tailed Beast chakra/s nor Six Paths Senjutsu.

      This theory has no basis in the facts. In fact, if Sasuke has all of Hagoromo's chakra then he should have SPSM as well.

      Hagoromo also stated that he gave Naruto and Sasuke roughly half of his chakra

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    • @Legion

      Anything that isn't natural is considered prosthetic.

      Prosthetic, N, An artificial body part; a Prosthesis.

      Prosthesis, N, an artificial body part, such as a leg, a heart, or a breast implant.

      Artificial, N, made or produced by human beings rather than occurring naturally, typically as a copy of something natural.

      Any Zetsu part is considered Prosthetic. Therefore everyone with Zetsu body parts have a prosthetic lol.

      If Naruto's body benefits from the Dna of the prosthetic to heal, that means they are connected just as Obito is connected to his Zetsu body parts. Just as Madara is connected to his Hashirama and Zetsu body parts. Just as Danzo, his. Etc.

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    • Boruto manga shows it as a detachable prosthetic. The arm ismt grafted on to Naruto.

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    • Unless I was reading an errant translation, I'm of the understanding Kabuto healed Sasuke through the result of research into Hashirama's DNA, not the DNA itself.

      Momoshiki and Urashiki destroy that theory of needing Sharingan. The fact that they even have Rinnegan shows that you don't need Hagoromo's Chakra anymore and therefore is retconned. How would they get Chakra from someone they never met? I used to somewhat think that it was possible that you needed EMS, but then they were introduced and that theory was no longer possible too me.

      Except Momoshiki and Urashiki were on a diet of Divine Fruit pills, which is where Kaguya originally got her Rinne Sharingan. So, direct access to the Divine Fruit has to be a factor.

      Moving on, what confuses me is why Sasuke's Rinnegan sports tomoe and Hagoromo's didn't. It makes me wonder what the difference is.

      Regarding Sarada, however, the question is whether she's actually a reincarnation of Indra. While it's entirely likely, it still remains to be seen. If we're saying that's integral to gaining the Rinnegan (is that the consensus? I'm lost), then if she's not Indra's incarnation, she'd likely be just a Sharingan beneficiary.

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    • @Legion

      And? There's no difference between what Naruto has and Obito and Madara's. They all can remove and replace theirs and still have the effects of the dna while having them. Naruto is affected by Hashirama's DNA, increasing his Regeneration. What evidence do you have that Naruto is not affected by the arm when everything else says otherwise? Just cause he doesn't have to rip it off and made a way to detach it? Lol.

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    • LoneNinja wrote: @Legion

      And? There's no difference between what Naruto has and Obito and Madara's. They all can remove and replace theirs and still have the effects of the dna while having them. Naruto is affected by Hashirama's DNA, increasing his Regeneration. What evidence do you have that Naruto is not affected by the arm when everything else says otherwise? Just cause he doesn't have to rip it off and made a way to detach it? Lol.

      I'm sorry, which chapter is it that confirm Naruto being affected by Hashirama's DNA? Also, Naruto's detachment is mechanical, not like Obito and Madara.

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    • @Nope

      The Databook states anyone integrated with the cells of Hashirama have his regeneration. As far as I am aware, the arm is made of his DNA. That is why Naruto is listed as a user of his regeneration on the Regeneration Ability page. Therefore, Naruto is affected by the arm and proves that it is mostly organic. Why else would Hashirama's cells be involved? How else can Naruto maneuver every finger?

      Why does it matter if Naruto's hand can be detached or not? It's still made of Hashirama's cells. He still is listed as being affected by it. He still is connected to it.

      The community isn't even sure if what Naruto had was detachable like Momoshiki's Prototype and he could have ripped it off, tried the prototype and got a new one or reattached it like how Madara reattached a random Zetsu hand.

      What we know is the previous arm was made of Hashirama's cells and that Naruto was given regeneration because of it due to the Databook.

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    • Sarada can't be Indra incarnate... the next pair of incarnates can be born only after both of the previous ones have died, that's been established.

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    • Not to mention that the whole circle of hatred came to an end after VOTE2, so there is no reason for the 2 souls to reicarnate any further. Even after Naruto and Sasuke die, Asura and Indra will not move to other hosts...

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    • Well, that's at least the impression we got. For all we know, they might, but the incarnates may always be buddies from now on :D But even if it has ended, if I were you, I wouldn't be so hasty. For all we know, Sasuke might get yet another emo moment and after all carry his plan of immortality, controlling the world as a tyrant for all eternity, starting the cycle yet again _^

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    • TBH, Hashirama also defeated Madara (the first time) and they became buddies again and build Konoha, similar to how Sasuke came back after VOTE2. Yet Madara went mad again and betrayed Hashirama, and ended up getting "killed". So at least according to history, another Sasuke EMO phase isn't unlikely at all. But this is a New Generation story, so i really doubt that Sasuke will become a main villain again.

      Also, if i recall correctly, Asura said that if Indra will reicarnate to bring evil, so will his soul, in order to stop him. But if Indra's soul is at peace and cured from hatred, i doubt they will reicarnate again after Naruto and Sasuke.

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    • Vladosaurus wrote: Also, if i recall correctly, Asura said that if Indra will reicarnate to bring evil, so will his soul, in order to stop him. But if Indra's soul is at peace and cured from hatred, i doubt they will reicarnate again after Naruto and Sasuke.

      It's anime only, doesn't count.

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    • So what consent?

      IF ... to awaken the rinnegan, the chakra's 6 path is enough, do you've to explain why Naruto and Ashura didn't wake up?

      IF it is necessary also meat / DNA, and so Sasuke awakened the rinnegan ("kabuto gave the hashirama's cells"), have to explain why Sasuke doesn't have the mokuton?

      IF it is necessary the face's shodaime in the body to use the mokuton, and so Sasuke and Naruto don't have, how did Yamato and Obito have the mokuton?

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    • Jesus, Naruto and Asura didn't get the entirety of Hagoromo's chakra, literally nothing in the canon says that, where do people come up with this shit?

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    • Elveonora wrote: Jesus, Naruto and Asura didn't get the entirety of Hagoromo's chakra, literally nothing in the canon says that, where do people come up with this shit?


      Man, to me now it seems to be necessary flesh / DNA not only chakra, but sasuke in my interpretation he didn't receive hashirama's cells, and one evidence is that he doesn't have mokuton, what I meant above is that if you think of one of these options has to explain.

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    • No, having Hashi cells does not automatically give you Mokuton. You need to either be a genetic clone of him or have a Hashi face on you. Naruto, Sasuke, and Obito do not have the Hashi face and they are not actual clones, hence they do not have Mokuton. Madara had a Hashi face thanks to Kabuto and with it he tried out Wood Release. Danzo had a Hashi face and boom wood release. Obito needed Tobi to use Wood Release. So again that argument is null.

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    • Obito used WR without TOBI.

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    • He never did. He made the TenTails use Wood Release a few times but thats it. He can't use it himself.

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    • OBito literally used wood release vs KCM Naruto after Madara joined him in battle.And that was prior of the ten-tails and all. So what are you talking about?

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    • I don't remember this at all. Post proof. I remember he manifested chakra rods and also shot them at Naruto but that was it.

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    • FlatZone wrote: I don't remember this at all. Post proof. I remember he manifested chakra rods and also shot them at Naruto but that was it.

      chapter 603, he made a piece of wood as part of his training for recovery, without Tobi's body.

      Chapter 609 he create another wood release before 10 tails is revived

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    • What does it matter that Obito could or couldn't? Naruto didn't and had an arm made of Hashirama's DNA. The DNA granted him Regeneration. It didn't grant him wood release as far as we can tell.

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    • Naruto manga chapter 609, pg. 4-5-6. Obito uses wood release to restrain Naruto, Naruto headbutts him.

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    • I just spent a good deal of time running through multiple sources of the same page of where Kabuto states he uses Hashirama's cells (literally seen it in Chinese, possibly Japanese since I can't discern the two apart, Arabic, German, Russian, Spanish, and English). Funny thing is, I used a search by image engine and every English translation read either... "With My Medical Ninjutsu And Much-Tinkered Hashirama Cells... Plus A Certain Someone's Suggestion..." or "YES... WITH MY MEDICAL NINJUTSU, THE CELLS OF HASHIRAMA I'VE STUDIED SO FAR... AND SOMEONE'S ADVICE.."

      Either way, he used Hashirama's cells.

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    • That is not an actual wood release tech. It grew FROM his arm, so it may just be the same with Danzo's arm going out of control, but in this case Obito can control it which was said to be Hashirama's DNA and chakra going out of control in Danzo's case.

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    • LoneNinja wrote: What does it matter that Obito could or couldn't? Naruto didn't and had an arm made of Hashirama's DNA. The DNA granted him Regeneration. It didn't grant him wood release as far as we can tell.


      Obviously it matters, this is proof that Hashirama's face isn't necessary. According to what they said Sasuke aroused the rinnegan by gaining the hashirama's cells and the hagoromo accelerated the process, unlike the madara that took years, but if the sasuke managed to wake up, means that the hashirama's cells had effect on sasuke's body, so he has to have regeneration and mokuton.

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    • Well seeing that Viz has "With My Medical Ninjutsu And Much-Tinkered Hashirama Cells... Plus A Certain Someone's Suggestion..." translation, that's all that's needed. Sasuke received Hashirama's cells but like Naruto, doesn't have Wood Release.

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    • I missed a lot, apparently. *skims through posts* looks like i didn't miss THAT much.

      LoneNinja wrote: Funny thing is, I used a search by image engine and every English translation read either... "With My Medical Ninjutsu And Much-Tinkered Hashirama Cells... Plus A Certain Someone's Suggestion..." or "YES... WITH MY MEDICAL NINJUTSU, THE CELLS OF HASHIRAMA I'VE STUDIED SO FAR... AND SOMEONE'S ADVICE.."

      The "cells i've studied" refers to the fight against Itachi, where he frequently uses similar terminology (e.g. "with study of Karin's cells, i can heal myself") even though he blatantly uses their DNA.

      LoneNinja wrote: What does it matter that Obito could or couldn't? Naruto didn't and had an arm made of Hashirama's DNA. The DNA granted him Regeneration. It didn't grant him wood release as far as we can tell.

      My theory is that both Sasuke's infusion of cells and Naruto's prosthetic are modeled after Zetsu. Zetsu have some form of wood release but it's so weak it's useless, yet still have quite strong healing. Kabuto got access to Zetsu when he offered to "upgrade" them to Obito. Would also make sense why he'd have access to those cells without being able to use it himself (only recently acquired), or without using Wood Release through his DNA technique.

      Zetsu themselves are an interesting case since though they're mostly Hashirama DNA, they're still nowhere near his power.

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    • @killman

      I'm actually tossing the studied part because the viz doesn't even have that. What it has Kabuto saying is "That's right. With My Medical Ninjutsu and Much-Tinkered Hashirama Cells..."

      I only know that cause I just stumbled upon a knock off Viz that's stealing from Viz copying it page for page, after searching for a Japanese version.

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    • everyone forgets that pain just awakened the Rinnegan out of nowhere after his parents died.

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    • I have a neko problem wrote: everyone forgets that pain just awakened the Rinnegan out of nowhere after his parents died.

      Yeah, Madara didn't trasplant his eyes into Nagato without the latter's knowledge, definitely not.

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    • @neko No, Nagato already had Madara's eyes in his head and in those eyes the Rinnegan was already there he just re-awakened them, and they didn't stay awakened. He had to re-awaken them again to protect Yahiko and that time they stayed since he was finally aware of them and the only reason he can re-awaken and use them is because he is half Senju and half Uzumaki, therefor the perfect host(as bz and madara put it)

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    • I found the manga page that Kabuto is saving Sasuke, I found a trillion languages ​​less in Japanese, I found two versions in English, one to understand that he gave the cells and another that he studied the cells in Spanish and Portuguese implies that he studied the cells, if anyone finds Japanese, send a link here.

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    • @Senju

      As I said, it's not needed. Viz is a a legal company that owns North American rights to Naruto production. If they have Kabuto saying "That's right. With My Medical Ninjutsu and Much-Tinkered Hashirama Cells..." then that's what it is since they are legit and legal. Viz > all English Translations that aren't legal.

      So unless the site you're using is copying Viz chapter for chapter, page for page, volume for volume, then it isn't legit unless it's Viz itself. To check, you simply go on viz.com, click a Naruto volume, click free preview and compare it to the site your reading. If it ain't matching page for page, word for word, it ain't from Viz. Viz also is the only one that makes use of "<--- Read this way". So that's another hint that if it's from Viz. Last hint is the beginning of every volume, Viz copyrights can be found.

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    • I remember someone saying here that had the manga page in Japanese, but I'm not finding it anymore.

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    • @Senju

      That might have been me, I removed the post because I have two versions of the same page, both contain different Kanji, but they could be Chinese and not Japanese (since i don't speak either, i couldn't say and thus posting it is against the rules i believe). I know one has the correct Kanji for Hashirama's name, the way it was written by Kishimoto (柱間), and the other is likely Chinese since it spells his name a little differently (contains 柱 but the 間 looks a little different). Still, I'm not confident enough to say the one with the right Kanji is Japanese entirely. Which is why I'm just sticking with Viz, the North American Source for all production of Naruto since they own those rights.

      But the one with the right Kanji for Hashirama says

      有成的柱間細胞 和已經研究 我的醫療忍術 是的...我用 指導 某位人物的 加上 保住了

      他的小命 總算是先把

      But as I said, I believe this is Chinese.

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    • Nagato isn't half Senju, though.

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    • LoneNinja wrote: @Legion

      And? There's no difference between what Naruto has and Obito and Madara's. They all can remove and replace theirs and still have the effects of the dna while having them. Naruto is affected by Hashirama's DNA, increasing his Regeneration. What evidence do you have that Naruto is not affected by the arm when everything else says otherwise? Just cause he doesn't have to rip it off and made a way to detach it? Lol.

      What evidence do you have that he is affected by the arm? He hasnt displayed any more of a healing factor than he had before, nor does he have wood release.

      Implants have to be ripped off/out. It kind is what happens when something is grafted onto the body, so dont "lol" at me until pace makers become strap on items like prothetic legs https://www.ottobock.in/prosthetics/lower-limb/solution-overview/running-prosthesis-system/

      Whenever Madara/Obito/Zetsu lost a Zetsu body part it was gloopy

      Elveonora wrote: Jesus, Naruto and Asura didn't get the entirety of Hagoromo's chakra, literally nothing in the canon says that, where do people come up with this shit?

      Where do you come up with your shit? Because no official source backs what you are condescendingly imposing on us, meanwhile multiple sources says that he gave them both equal amounts of his chakra and specific abilities each.

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    • @Legion

      I'm going to continue lol'ing you cause you obviously don't even know what you are talking about.

      Implant, N, a thing implanted in something else, especially a piece of tissue, prosthetic device, or other object implanted in the body.

      The Databook states it. Page 165, "those with Hashirama's cells have heightened healing ability". What does the arm have? Hashirama cells. Who was connected to the arm? Naruto. I understand you want your theory to be right, but damn.

      "Naruto doesn't get the healing ability cause he can remove it." Like lmao. Madara proved that you can cut off a piece of Zetsu's hand, let it be perfectly be fine, and place it on himself with ease. It literally just attached itself to him. As I said, the series only showed Momoshiki's prototype, nothing about the Hashirama hand as far as I recall.

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    • LoneNinja wrote: @Legion

      I'm going to continue lol'ing you cause you obviously don't even know what you are talking about.

      Implant, N, a thing implanted in something else, especially a piece of tissue, prosthetic device, or other object implanted in the body.

      The Databook states it. Page 165, "those with Hashirama's cells have heightened healing ability". What does the arm have? Hashirama cells. Who was connected to the arm? Naruto. I understand you want your theory to be right, but damn.

      "Naruto doesn't get the healing ability cause he can remove it." Like lmao. Madara proved that you can cut off a piece of Zetsu's hand, let it be perfectly be fine, and place it on himself with ease. It literally just attached itself to him. As I said, the series only showed Momoshiki's prototype, nothing about the Hashirama hand as far as I recall.

      Prosthetic device ≠ Prosthetic arm

      Prosthetic arm ≠ A living person’s finger, how did you even think that for a second?

      He had to have taken off his Hagoromo Arm to attach his Momoshiki Arm

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    • @Nobody

      Device, N, a thing made or adapted for a particular purpose, especially a piece of mechanical or electronic equipment.

      Are you saying the prosthetic arm doesn't have a purpose? Or do you just not know the English Language?

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    • @Legion, provide references to manga chapters and databook pages then.

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    • In the manga, he only states that he gifted Naruto and Sasuke each half of his own chakra when he is talking to the 4 Hoage. It is never mentioned or hinted that he gave them any specific abilities or powers or anything, just each gifted half of his own chakra... same thing that Dan did for Tsunade except split in two. The chakra itself made Sasuke's Rinnegan awaken much much earlier than otherwise. Naruto's body reacted to the chakra and awakened to SPSM. Mind you the act of Hag gifting Naruto and Sasuke each half of his chakra also helped them awaken their own abilities so that is probably what is meant when it is said he gave them abilities in the databook.

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    • @LoneNinja Ok I admit, it sounded better in my head. What I should say is that not all prosthetic limbs that not implants, only some. Naruto’s in my opinion is a prosthetic but not an implant.

      To everybody else, FlatZone up there just basically explained everything. Except the second half, Sasuke would’ve never awaken the Rinnegan without Hagoromo’s chakra and I definitely wouldn’t use the term “awakened” for Naruto, more like the chakra had perks.

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    • he actually does't say he gave them each half of his chakra, he simply said, this time i decided to give them both my chakra, meaning that he just gave them his chakra. not half but the whole. it just reacted to each of them differently. moreover people assume that because when he gave them his chakra that because 1 had the yin seal and the other had the yang that it means he gave 1 his yin chakra and the other his yang. thats not true the yin yang seals were solely for the chibaku tensei seal.

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    • @Nobody

      Implant, N, a thing implanted in something else, especially a piece of tissue, prosthetic device, or other object implanted in the body.

      Prosthetic, N, An artificial body part; a Prosthesis.

      Artificial, N, made or produced by human beings rather than occurring naturally, typically as a copy of something natural.

      Device, N, a thing made or adapted for a particular purpose, especially a piece of mechanical or electronic equipment.

      Naruto's Prosthetic arm is considered a device cause it has a purpose and is definitely a prosthetic as you guy's have called it. So is what Obito and Madara had. So again, there's no proof what Naruto had was any different. You can't even prove what it looks like or if it has anything mechanical about it. You are going off a different hand, Momoshiki's prototype. Momoshiki's hand is not the Hashirama Hand. For all you know, Naruto just ripped it off, tried the prototype which he then removed it, and put back the Hashirama hand like Madara did with a White Zetsu clone's hand. That's only if that is even the hand Naruto put back on. For all you know, that can be another prototype.

      @CurrentTopic

      Viz has Hagoromo saying "Long ago, I entrusted everything to little brother Asura and didn't pay any attention to big brother Indra. That proved to be the source of calamity. Proffer me your dominate arm. This time I shall share my power with you, Indra's Reincarnate..."

      Share, N, a part or portion of a larger amount that is divided among a number of people, or to which a number of people contribute.

      Portion, N, a part of a whole; an amount, section, or piece of something.

      Therefore, Hagoromo was stated to give a part of his power to Sasuke.

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    • I was researching again and apparently Kabuto gave hashirama cells to Sasuke, but it seems that they were modified and that's why he did not wake the mokuton.

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    • I thought here, when madara implanted hashirama's cells, the cells had effect on the madara's body and he gained the powers of hashirama (mokuton) and of rikudo (rinnegan). If it were to the contrary, if hashirama had implanted the madara's cells, hashirama would have gained the powers of madara (sharingan) and of rikudo (rinnegan). So, the fact is that in relation to the rinnegan obtained by the transmigrans, they must always have the sharingan and the rinnegan, not because one depends on the other, but because one of the transmigrants has that power. If Indra's transmigrant awakens the rinnegan, he already has the sharingan, and if the Ashura's transmigrant wakes up rinnegan, he had to pick up cells from the indra's transmigrant and gain his power in the same way, so they will always have the two doujutsus.

      Obviously without considering cellular modifications.

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    • Madara did not get Mokuton until Kabuto transplanted the Hashi face on his chest, and he makes it obvious by saying he is going to try it out, he then tries and succeeds at using wood release.

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    • FlatZone wrote: Madara did not get Mokuton until Kabuto transplanted the Hashi face on his chest, and he makes it obvious by saying he is going to try it out, he then tries and succeeds at using wood release.

      What are you talking about? Kabuto only left Madara's body young. Where is it said that he gave Hashirama's face?

      Madara wanted to test a JUTSU (Jukai Kōtan), not if he was able to use Mokuton.

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    • He did not have a Hashirama face on his chest when he was training Obito. Go back and read the manga again man, you missed a lot apparently.

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    • FlatZone wrote: He did not have a Hashirama face on his chest when he was training Obito. Go back and read the manga again man, you missed a lot apparently.

      You missed a lot too apparently, if we read this monstrously long and derailed thread.

      And again, Hashirama's face isn't needed to use mokuton. You need his genetic material.

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    • @SenjuMadara and Nope

      Chapter 657, page 4 (volume 68 page 176).

      Madara: "That the one who obtains both Uchiha and Senju power... can attain true happiness. Don't you think it can be read that way as well... Hashirama?" Panel zooms on the face of Hashirama on Madara's Chest.

      Hashirama: "... Seems you been doing a lot of plotting after you left the village."

      Madara: "No... This (the face) was added by a subordinate's (Obito) Comrade (Kabuto), Completely by chance.

      Kabuto was stated by Madara himself to give him the face of Hashirama on his chest.

      Also, what evidence does anyone have that prior to the face on his chest, that Madara could use Wood Release? The wiki has Madara only able to use Wood Release due to the face on his chest. So where is the evidence?

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    • 1/2 of the characters who obtained Wood release through Hashirama's DNA dont have Hashi face. Zooming in on Madara's chest to emphasize what he was talking about doesnt mean that it is the reason he has what he has.

      Elveonora wrote: @Legion, provide references to manga chapters and databook pages then.

      4th Databook: Sasuke's entry says he awakened the Rinnegan from Hagoromo

      4th Databook, p310: Six Paths Senjutsu entry says its a state gifted by Hagoromo.

      4th Databook, p70: Hagoromo's entry says that he distributed his powers between Naruto and Sasuke

      Chapter 686, p1: Hagoromo says he gave away a lot of his chakra already.

      LoneNinja wrote: @Legion

      I'm going to continue lol'ing you cause you obviously don't even know what you are talking about.

      Implant, N, a thing implanted in something else, especially a piece of tissue, prosthetic device, or other object implanted in the body.

      You are conflating the implant and prosthetic. An implant isnt always prosthetic and a prosthetic isnt always an implant

      LoneNinja wrote:

      The Databook states it. Page 165, "those with Hashirama's cells have heightened healing ability". What does the arm have? Hashirama cells. Who was connected to the arm? Naruto. I understand you want your theory to be right, but damn.

      Cool story bro, but Naruto hasnt displayed any of the benefits of Hashirama's cells.

      LoneNinja wrote:

      "Naruto doesn't get the healing ability cause he can remove it." Like lmao.

      Not sure who you think you are quoting...

      LoneNinja wrote:

      Madara proved that you can cut off a piece of Zetsu's hand, let it be perfectly be fine, and place it on himself with ease. It literally just attached itself to him.

      This Madara was already confirmed to have Hashirama DNA implanted and the ability to reattach limbs is a Zetsu ability.

      The series hasnt established Naruto's arm as an implant, and the fact that it is removable with no signs of blood or Zetsu goop shows that it is not connected by flesh or tissue

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    • How does that disprove what I say? Quite the contrary. Six Paths Sage Mode, state gifted by Hagoromo and Sasuke's Rinnegan technique was also stated to be a gift from Hagoromo. That sounds like targeted powers to me, meaning Hagoromo was at full mercy about what powers each of them would receive.

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    • But what proof has it that Madara didn't have Mokuton?

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    • FlatZone wrote: Madara did not get Mokuton until Kabuto transplanted the Hashi face on his chest, and he makes it obvious by saying he is going to try it out, he then tries and succeeds at using wood release.

      I think it's fairly obvious he couldn't go running around making huge forests, since that would be fairly detectable and it would paint a huge target on his back. The whole part makes it fairly clear that Madara was simply itching to try out the powers in actual combat.

      Elveonora wrote: How does that disprove what I say? Quite the contrary. Six Paths Sage Mode, state gifted by Hagoromo and Sasuke's Rinnegan technique was also stated to be a gift from Hagoromo. That sounds like targeted powers to me, meaning Hagoromo was at full mercy about what powers each of them would receive.

      Yup. He even straight up says one person shouldn't have all of the power.

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    • Elveonora wrote: How does that disprove what I say? Quite the contrary. Six Paths Sage Mode, state gifted by Hagoromo and Sasuke's Rinnegan technique was also stated to be a gift from Hagoromo. That sounds like targeted powers to me, meaning Hagoromo was at full mercy about what powers each of them would receive.

      You were saying they didnt recieve his chakra or only recieved parts of his chakra. Nothing supports that.

      You also claim that Hagoromo had no control over what powers they recieved, but the databook outright refutes that.

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    • @Legion

      1) By those definitions in the case of Naruto, the arm is an implant. And I still see no evidence that what Naruto's Hashirama hand looks like. The Momoshiki hand is not the Hashirama hand. I get that people like to be right, but you don't got to make up bull to do it.

      2) Doesn't matter if he's displayed it. He has it. Databook states it. Kishimoto > You.

      3) I'm quoting you with a basic summary of the crud you're saying. The only reason too you that Naruto doesn't have Hashirama's benefits is simply cause he can remove his hand (which Madara could do and you have no proof that the hand was any different from that one cause you never seen it).

      4) And?

      Again, where's your proof what the hand looks like and how Naruto could remove it? Momoshiki's prototype isn't the Hashirama hand.

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    • LoneNinja wrote: @Legion

      1) By those definitions in the case of Naruto, the arm is an implant. And I still see no evidence that what Naruto's Hashirama hand looks like. The Momoshiki hand is not the Hashirama hand. I get that people like to be right, but you don't got to make up bull to do it.

      Prosthetic and implant have never been synonymous in the series. And you have the nerve to say im making bull up.

      LoneNinja wrote:

      2) Doesn't matter if he's displayed it. He has it. Databook states it. Kishimoto > You.

      Except Kishimoto never said he has Hashirama cells or any of their benefits.

      LoneNinja wrote:

      3) I'm quoting you with a basic summary of the crud you're saying. The only reason too you that Naruto doesn't have Hashirama's benefits is simply cause he can remove his hand (which Madara could do and you have no proof that the hand was any different from that one cause you never seen it).

      Madara replaced his own arm with a zetsu arm. Zetsu have the ability to merge with people. When separated these parts ooze out fluid. Naruto's didnt.

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    • @Legion

      1) Lol, and where is your proof on that? Where does it state Madara and Obito's are implants and Naruto's isn't? Until I see some actual evidence I'm going to keep having the nerve to say you're making stuff up.

      2) Kishimoto did say he did. "those with Hashirama's cells have heightened healing ability", databook, did Naruto have those cells? Yes. Were they inside his arm? Yes. Was his arm connected to his body? Yes. He had healing ability cause Kishimoto stated so. Kishimoto > You.

      3) Where's your proof it didn't ooze? Where's your proof that what Naruto had wasn't even a Zetsu Arm?

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    • @Legion, no, no, that must be a misunderstanding, I advocate just the same that Hagoromo decided which powers they got. Hence that's what I mean by parts of chakra.

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    • LoneNinja wrote: @Legion

      1) Lol, and where is your proof on that? Where does it state Madara and Obito's are implants and Naruto's isn't? Until I see some actual evidence I'm going to keep having the nerve to say you're making stuff up.

      Until you prove that the arm is grafted onto him im going to say that you are making stuff up.

      LoneNinja wrote:

      2) Kishimoto did say he did. "those with Hashirama's cells have heightened healing ability", databook, did Naruto have those cells? Yes. Were they inside his arm? Yes. Was his arm connected to his body? Yes. He had healing ability cause Kishimoto stated so. Kishimoto > You.

      Kishimoto didnt claim that Naruto's prosthetic is grafted on to him. You did

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    • LoneNinja wrote: @Legion

      1) Lol, and where is your proof on that? Where does it state Madara and Obito's are implants and Naruto's isn't? Until I see some actual evidence I'm going to keep having the nerve to say you're making stuff up.

      Until you prove that the arm is grafted onto him im going to say that you are making stuff up.

      LoneNinja wrote:

      2) Kishimoto did say he did. "those with Hashirama's cells have heightened healing ability", databook, did Naruto have those cells? Yes. Were they inside his arm? Yes. Was his arm connected to his body? Yes. He had healing ability cause Kishimoto stated so. Kishimoto > You.

      Kishimoto didnt claim that Naruto's prosthetic is grafted on to him. You did

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    • I don't need to prove anything. Grafted is not a requirement for receiving Hashirama's cells. You are also the only one stating that Naruto's arm is different from others due to a different arm just so your theory on Sharingan doesn't fail. If human's having two eyes was against your theory, you would argue against it. Sorry but Momoshiki's prototype is not Hashirama's arm. Therefore, you have no proof what even the arm is. You can't say Naruto's arm doesn't have Hashirama's cells because it isn't "grafted" on, cause where's the proof? Our proof, the arm is stated to have Hashirama's cells and stated to be connected to Naruto. That's all we need.

      Oh, and by the way. Your argument fails since it's explicitly stated to be made from Hashirama's cells therefore living tissue. It also fails because Momoshiki's prototype still gives access to his power. Therefore, your argument fails either way. Hashirama's hand would be the same regardless.

      Your argument: Zero evidence. Enough said.

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    • You say i have zero evidence but you keep claiming the arm is attatched to him without presenting evidence.

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    • @Legion

      Lol, what? Is the arm just floating in mid air? Of course it's attached too him.

      Attached, N, joined, fastened, or connected to something.

      It's most definitely connected to Naruto, lmao. He can wiggle the fingers. Pick things up. Perform hand signs. Grab. Eat. Etc.

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    • He did all that same stuff the absorption arm.

      Ch 603-605 shows that White Zetsu bodies can be used as an extension of the users body without being connected to them, and Naruto's arm is made of White Zetsu material.

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    • @Legion

      Again, are you stating that the arm is just floating and not connected to Naruto?

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    • Could be held in place with a brace, it could grip in to the stump of his old arm, or it could be a cybernetic/mechanical socket like automail from FMA

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    • It's explicitly stated to be made of Hashirama's cells so, it's stated to be organic.

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    • LoneNinja wrote: It's explicitly stated to be made of Hashirama's cells so, it's stated to be organic.

      It can be removed or added like a prosthetic arm. I don't think Naruto literally cut off his (zetsu) arm in order to graft the absorbtion prototype on it.

      So whatever it is, while made of hashirama cells, it definitely has components that allow it to be attached and detached like a prosthesis. Which may impede with stuff like Wood Release. It could also be just Zetsu cells (which, i might add, were studied by Sakura and are much safer than straight hashicells), which have almost non-existent wood release.

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    • I'm still at a loss as to how the kyubi chakra could recover from a giant hole in his torso, but not his arm.

      But whatever, it's actually kinda hardcore that Naruto lost his arm, got a prosthetic one, and then said 'you know what? Hook me up with another one, because ninjas need options.'

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    • Mrsunrider wrote:

      I'm still at a loss as to how the kyubi chakra could recover from a giant hole in his torso, but not his arm.

      Probably because with the hole, he was healing/repairing damaged tissue and organs where-as with the arm, it was completely, so there was nothing to heal. Kurama has shown that it can heal wounds but never that it can regenerate entire lost limbs.

      Also Kurama was chakra drained and unconcious at that point. Nothin he could do to help Naruto.

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      00:58, January 5, 2019
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    • First off, Sarada cannot awaken the Rinnegan, as she does not have the Indra's Chakra.

      And I think the evolution goes like this:

      Rinne-Sharingan->Rinnegan & Sharingan

      Lmao most people directly assume the hypothesis conducted by Orochimaru and Kabuto to be true.

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    • I wonder

      if Sasuke shared some of his chakra with Sarada, would that count as taking on Indra's chakra?

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    • Mrsunrider wrote: if Sasuke shared some of his chakra with Sarada, would that count as taking on Indra's chakra?

      NO, only reincanations have the chakra.

      Arturia00000 wrote: First off, Sarada cannot awaken the Rinnegan, as she does not have the Indra's Chakra.

      And I think the evolution goes like this:

      Rinne-Sharingan->Rinnegan & Sharingan

      Lmao most people directly assume the hypothesis conducted by Orochimaru and Kabuto to be true.

      This topic has already arrived at the consent that it is necessary have cells of indra (or reincarnation) + cells of ashura (or reincarnation) to awaken the Rinnegan, and that the Sharingan is not necessary. Ie, to absorb only the chakra of Hagoromo is not enough because one hour will end, it is necessary to have cells of the own Hagoromo or the junction of the cells of his sons. And that Kabuto gave the Hashirama's cells to Sasuke, caused that him to wake the Rinnegan, and that Hagoromo accelerated the process of awakening the Rinnegan when he found Sasuke, and Naruto did not wake Rinnegan because he had no Sasuke's or Madara's cells.

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    • Mrsunrider wrote: I wonder

      if Sasuke shared some of his chakra with Sarada, would that count as taking on Indra's chakra?

      Just giving people chakra doesn't awaken power. Don't see Kakashi running around with a Kurama avatar, after all.

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    • Mrsunrider wrote: I wonder

      if Sasuke shared some of his chakra with Sarada, would that count as taking on Indra's chakra?

      Yes, it should

      Thekillman wrote: Just giving people chakra doesn't awaken power. Don't see Kakashi running around with a Kurama avatar, after all.

      But people were running around with V1 cloaks during the war (along with the Gold and Silver Bros can use the V2 cloak). Not to mention some members of the Konoha 11 entered a partial Kurama Mode when they entered the Susanoo-clad Kurama avatar

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    • They didn't keep it.. why? because they did not have the dna in them. The KinGin bros can go into V2 mode because they ate Kurama's flesh to survive and somehow it became part of them and that is still dna. You need not just the chakra, but the dna and the compatibility to do it. Others have eaten TB flesh and died, proving you need to be genetically capable of integrating the new dna into you. Kin Gin Bros, Shin, Obito, Danzo, Sasuke, Kabuto, Orochimaru, Naruto and Madara have proven compatible with implanted/ingested DNA so far

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    • FlatZone wrote: They didn't keep it.. why? because they did not have the dna in them. The KinGin bros can go into V2 mode because they ate Kurama's flesh to survive and somehow it became part of them and that is still dna. You need not just the chakra, but the dna and the compatibility to do it. Others have eaten TB flesh and died, proving you need to be genetically capable of integrating the new dna into you. Kin Gin Bros, Shin, Obito, Danzo, Sasuke, Kabuto, Orochimaru, Naruto and Madara have proven compatible with implanted/ingested DNA so far

      Plausible theory......but that has nothing to do my point. It's just a simple rebuttal to killman's statement

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    • FlatZone wrote: They didn't keep it.. why? because they did not have the dna in them. The KinGin bros can go into V2 mode because they ate Kurama's flesh to survive and somehow it became part of them and that is still dna. You need not just the chakra, but the dna and the compatibility to do it. Others have eaten TB flesh and died, proving you need to be genetically capable of integrating the new dna into you. Kin Gin Bros, Shin, Obito, Danzo, Sasuke, Kabuto, Orochimaru, Naruto and Madara have proven compatible with implanted/ingested DNA so far

      I concur

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    • UltimaDude wrote: But people were running around with V1 cloaks during the war (along with the Gold and Silver Bros can use the V2 cloak). Not to mention some members of the Konoha 11 entered a partial Kurama Mode when they entered the Susanoo-clad Kurama avatar

      And none of them kept the chakra. In fact, none of them even controlled the cloaks, Naruto did. None of them got permanent power out of that.

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    • and that comes back to one thing, they cannot keep nor create what does not originate or generate from their body. Which is why Tsunade will not be recreating Dans chakra inside of her, she will only have her own. Same thing with Naruto and Sasuke.. they used up Hagoromo's powerful ass chakra and now they are only generating their own chakra.

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    • Thekillman wrote: And none of them kept the chakra. In fact, none of them even controlled the cloaks, Naruto did. None of them got permanent power out of that.

      That's completely irrelevant to my point, which was getting chakra can give you power

      FlatZone wrote: Same thing with Naruto and Sasuke.. they used up Hagoromo's powerful ass chakra and now they are only generating their own chakra.

      Yeah...no. There's no indication whatsoever that they lost the Hag-boost. Naruto and Sasuke performed feats that they never would have pulled off without it. In fact, Sasuke, who isn't a sensor, was able to sense Naruto's chakra in Momo's dimension. This wouldn't be possible without the connection they shared through Hag's chakra

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    • The connection they shared was through the powers he gave them, SPSM and the Tomoe Rinnegan. They have there own Six Paths chakra, but somehow through those powers they each can sense each other. Naruto needed SPSM to sense Sasuke and that was the proof.

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    • FlatZone wrote: The connection they shared was through the powers he gave them, SPSM and the Tomoe Rinnegan. They have there own Six Paths chakra, but somehow through those powers they each can sense each other. Naruto needed SPSM to sense Sasuke and that was the proof.

      The connection that they have is Hagoromo's chakra, not their own. If they supposedly have their own chakra, then Sasuke (who like I said, isn't a sensor) would not have been able to sense Naruto in Momo's dimension. What you're suggesting is a bit convoluted

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    • The only time Naruto could sense him was in SPSM. He can't do it outside of that form. The form uses SPChakra and Senjutsu. I do think Hagoromo's chakra changed theirs a bit to be linked, but I don't believe they have his at all anymore. They are eternally connected through being reincarnates with Six Paths chakra, who's SP Chakra was altered some by Hagoromo. They can sense each other, but Naruto can only sense him while in SPSM, not while in base form so its not that they still have Hagoromo himselves chakra, because they don't.

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    • Naruto gained Hagoromo's chakra and so could enter Rikudou Sennin Mode, but Naruto never had DNA / Cells of some reincarnation of Indra and so can't naturally produce the Hagoromo's chakra, then the Hagoromo's chakra that Naruto had, it's over, and he can no longer enter Rikudou Sennin Mode. But Sasuke still has Hagoromo's chakra, not what he gained from Hagoromo himself, but the Hagoromo's chakra that he himself produces, because Sasuke has DNA / Cells from the reincarnation of Indra and Ashura, and so he can reproduce the power of Hagoromo, Rinnegan, and Naruto didn't. Sasuke sensed Naruto because Sasuke still has the six-path chakra.

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    • FlatZone wrote: The only time Naruto could sense him was in SPSM. He can't do it outside of that form. The form uses SPChakra and Senjutsu. I do think Hagoromo's chakra changed theirs a bit to be linked, but I don't believe they have his at all anymore. They are eternally connected through being reincarnates with Six Paths chakra, who's SP Chakra was altered some by Hagoromo. They can sense each other, but Naruto can only sense him while in SPSM, not while in base form so its not that they still have Hagoromo himselves chakra, because they don't.

      What evidence do you have that shows Naruto only being able to sense Sasuke with SPSM? Any sensor can sense Sasuke. Sasuke, who like I said 2 times now, is not a sensor, was able to sense Naruto in Momo's dimension. Naruto wasn't in SPSM, yet Sasuke was still able to sense him. Through Occam's razor, they are connected through Hagoromo's chakra

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    • Naruto and Sasuke can sense each other even beyond dimensions because of their chakras or six paths . Naruto doesn't need to be in SPSM to sense Sasuke. Sasuke isn't even a sensor yet he can sense Naruto, and only Naruto wherever he is, and vice-versa regardless if Naruto is in base of not.

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    • I'm saying I have never seen Naruto sense Sasuke outside of SPSM and there's probably a reason for that, that reason being that he needs the power that Hagoromo gave him to do it. Hag changed Sasuke's Rinnegan into the Tomoe Rinnegan and gave him Amenotejikara and through Sasuke's Rinnegan Sasuke is able to sense where Naruto is whether Naruto himself is in SPSM or not, so what I am saying is I think Hagoromo altered Naruto and Sasuke's own SPChakra to make them each able to sense each other but that's it, there is no evidence at all that they still have his chakra but they do for a fact have their own SPChakra.

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    • FlatZone wrote: I'm saying I have never seen Naruto sense Sasuke outside of SPSM and there's probably a reason for that, that reason being that he needs the power that Hagoromo gave him to do it. Hag changed Sasuke's Rinnegan into the Tomoe Rinnegan and gave him Amenotejikara and through Sasuke's Rinnegan Sasuke is able to sense where Naruto is whether Naruto himself is in SPSM or not, so what I am saying is I think Hagoromo altered Naruto and Sasuke's own SPChakra to make them each able to sense each other but that's it, there is no evidence at all that they still have his chakra but they do for a fact have their own SPChakra.

      You are basing this on an assumption that Naruto can't sense Sasuke without SPSM. I already provided evidence that Naruto and Sasuke still have the Hag-boost. You are grasping at straws here.

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    • You didn't post evidence, you posted a theory. You need actual proof man.

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    • FlatZone wrote: You didn't post evidence, you posted a theory. You need actual proof man.

      First, follow your own advice. Second, I did post evidence one of which you interpret as proof of your claim and the other you flat out ignored. Sasuke was able to sense Naruto's chakra in Momo's dimension. Sasuke is not a sensor. This is just like how Naruto sensed Sasuke in one of Kaguya's dimension to which Black Zetsu thought it was because of their seals. Naruto and Sasuke performed feats that they never would have dreamed of if it weren't for the Hag-boost, such as destroying a mountain sized meteor with a simple Chidori and creating a massive Rasengan in base form that overpowered another massive Rasengan that nearly destroyed the trunk of a Shinju tree all while being weakened and restricted with chakra disrupted Rinnegan rods.

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    • None of that proves that they still have HAGS chakra, only that they have their own Six Paths chakra and that Hag did something to make them be able to sense one another. Madara had Rinnegan and Six Paths chakra.. he summoned two meteors bigger than the meteor Sasuke blew up.. are you going to say Hagoromo came to him and gave him half of his chakra too?? Those feats are BECAUSE they have Six Paths chakra, they do not still have Hagoromo himselves chakra. They were completely out of chakra by the end of their fight at VotE2 and they don't have Hag's flesh/dna in them to regenerate HIS EXACT chakra(his chakra is obviosuly stronger and more potent than theirs is) There is no real evidence whatsoever that they kept his chakra. Madara had Six Paths chakra and look at all the shit he did, Six Paths chakra alone is all they need for such feats.. while the sensing one another, SPSM, Sasuke's Rinnegan becoming a Tomoe Rinnegan are all because Hagoromo altered them to be able to do these things. He gifted them each half of his chakra and the Yin and Yang seals in order to actually be able to use SP:CT and beat Madara/Kaguya. If something comes out and says they still possess Hag's chakra that he gifted them at the 4th War then that confirms it.. otherwise they cannot, and do not regenerate a chakra that is not originating from their bodies. They do not have his dna implanted, they did not eat his flesh, and they are not clones of Hagoromo.

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    • Naruto's shadow clones also use SPSM, and they couldn't sense Sasuke when he was trapped in Kaguya's dimension. Only the real Naruto could.

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    • The feats that I mentioned are feats that indicate that Naruto and Sasuke have gotten much stronger since the war, which wouldn't be possible if they had lost the Hag-boost. Madara is an entirely different case and you know it. Your theory of them being able to sense each other across dimensions is extremely flimsy. If pieces of the Ten-Tails can regenerate chakra in the hosts, why can't the chakra of Hagoromo can? Not to mention, they are descendants of the Sage (meaning they share some DNA with him), so by your logic they should keep his chakra.

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    • That only proves that it is not the chakra as the source for them being able to sense each other as the Shadow Clones are each made of Naruto's chakra, but something else that was done to Naruto and Sasuke by Hagoromo. Thank you. So they do not have Hagoromo's chakra, they have their own SPChakra and something else not explained is the reason they are able to sense each other like that.

      edit

      Hagoromo was not a TTJ when he gifted them each half of his chakra, so no. He did not gift them his flesh, so no. I guess Indra being a descendant of Hagoromo should have had his chakra and all his powers and his Rinnegan then.. but he didn't. So there goes that. Asura had to be given powers etc even though he is his son too, so there goes that again.

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    • FlatZone wrote: That only proves that it is not the chakra as the source for them being able to sense each other as the Shadow Clones are each made of Naruto's chakra, but something else that was done to Naruto and Sasuke by Hagoromo. Thank you. So they do not have Hagoromo's chakra, they have their own SPChakra and something else not explained is the reason they are able to sense each other like that.

      edit

      Hagoromo was not a TTJ when he gifted them each half of his chakra, so no. He did not gift them his flesh, so no. I guess Indra being a descendant of Hagoromo should have had his chakra and all his powers and his Rinnegan then.. but he didn't. So there goes that. Asura had to be given powers etc even though he is his son too, so there goes that again.

      That doesn't prove your theory is right if anything it disproves both of our theories. Naruto's clones also didn't get TSB, so there's that.

      You completely missed my point. The Tailed Beasts are pieces of the Ten-Tails chakraa, yet Jinchurikis never have to worry about permanently losing their chakra. So why can't Hag's chakra regenerate? Was Indra given chakra? No,he wasn't. But if he was, then he would have kept it. Also, it wasn't stated anywhere that Hagoromo gave Asura some of his powers

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    • No, if the gifted chakra regenerated or the chakra from your tb remained and regenerated then Gaara would have the One Tails chakra still and the Shinobi Alliance would all still have Kurama's chakra and they don't. As explained with Naruto the TB's chakra when inside the actual Jinchuriki will turn into and add to the Jinchuriki's own chakra over time as it is used, and as it leaks into the Jinchuriki.

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    • FlatZone wrote: No, if the gifted chakra regenerated or the chakra from your tb remained and regenerated then Gaara would have the One Tails chakra still and the Shinobi Alliance would all still have Kurama's chakra and they don't. As explained with Naruto the TB's chakra when inside the actual Jinchuriki will turn into and add to the Jinchuriki's own chakra over time as it is used, and as it leaks into the Jinchuriki.

      I'm not talking about Tailed Beasts gifting chakra

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    • Maybe it can be more complex than just sharing chakra, perhaps Hagoromo handpicked the gifts he gave to Naruto and Sasuke?

      Remember that Itachi more or less gave Amaterasu and Tsukiyomi to Sasuke even though Mangekyo traits were supposedly unique (are they unique to the individual or to the family unit? It was never clarified).

      Or perhaps the sharing of chakra can activate latent potential, which is why certain gifts remain while others don't (such as the rookies and the kyubi cloak).

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    • it is never stated that Kabuto put hashirama's cells in sasuke. kabuto's exact words were that he he used the knowledge he gained from studying hashirama's cells to heal sasuke. meaning he figured out the same mechanism for enhanced healing that hashirama's cells use

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    • Not what the literal translation says, there have already been translators who looked at it. You need to stop spreading false information.

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    • A FANDOM user
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