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  • - Pain & Konan

    - Itachi & Kisame

    - Sasori & Deidara

    - Sasori & Orochimaru

    - Deidara & Goofball Tobi

    - Kakuzu & Hidan

    - Obito & Zetsu

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    • - 1º Itachi & Kisame -> (Izanami)

      - 2º Pain & Konan

      - 3º Sasori & Deidara

      - 4º Kakuzo & Hidan

      - 5º Obito & Zetsu

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    • @thiangoboop I think your mostly correct except, you do realize that obito started a war and zetsu is kaguya will. I would think it would be more like - 1º Obito & Zetsu - 2º Itachi & Kisame - 3º Sasori & Deidara - 4º Pain & Konan - 5º Kakuzo & Hidan I put pain so low on this list because all the teams above him and Konan would beat them in a head on fight example is sasori and deidara proboply the hardest to match but Deidara could lure them into a quick trap then C-0 all the pains and konan and sasori I'm willing to bet could use the poison in his iron sand to hit nagato once. itachi vs nagato we saw you add kisame and nagato is screwed and obito is the leader of the akatsuki so I think I don't need to explain why the is nuber one on the list

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    • Lol, Pain solos most of these teams alone. Pain alone is a team of six.

      1. Obito and Zetsu, because Obito is immune to pretty much anyone that can deal damage to him except with prep time. Let's not forget if Itachi could kill Obito, he would've.

      2. Pain and Konan, Itachi's Susanoo was destroyed by Kirin and he still took massive damage from some of the force. It's highest damage output is about a small mountain. Just Shinra Tensei Pain wiped out an entire village of Konohagakure. A place where it houses around 13k Shinobi and that's not including civilians, Genin, and Academy Students. Then we got a team of Pains that all have special characteristics of their own. Summonings. Preta Path. Human Path. Revive. Etc. Finally Konan. Although her offensive capabilities aren't anything on the level of the others, her defensive capabilities are amazing. She can provide excellent Support and strategic attacks. She's the only one who actually killed Obito in a solo fight and he was forced to use Izanagi to change his death.

      3. Itachi and Kisame, Sasori and Deidara, the immortals.

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    • number 1 spot could go either between Kisame+Itachi or obito +zetsu. Obito is a character that fluctuates heavily in strength and arsenal so you are gonna need to be more specific on which obito.

      but, disregard any claims you see that itachi would have killed obito if he could, as that is just a distorted view of the manga. Obito was careful of itachi. If worse comes to worse, obito could bring nagato/pain and even other akatsuki members as backup, and itachi can't take them all on, and itachi was aware of that. But obito also knew just the same that itachi was a wildcard, which is why he waited for itachi to die before making his big moves. that's why itachi prepared two contingencies that obito couldn't see coming ahead of time. Obito clearly took konan lightly, as he went to fight her without any backup and even admitted he underestimated her. not only that, konan was fully prepped, had full intel, and environmental advantage, and still didn't have a backup plan and failed to account for the technique costing all her chakra. when obito got serious, he blitzed the living hell out of konan and that was that. If the obito you are talking about is simply one ms orange mask obito, then itachi and kisame take the number one spot without any question. Kisame complements itachi's weakness perfectly.

      Obito and zetsu

      Obito and deidara


      Pain and konan take 4th place place after those pairs. Pain isn't reacting to the totsuka blade when prime Edo nagato who was juiced up on killer bee's chakra couldn't. Nagato was even looking right up at the susano'o gourd and the the susano'o upper body and couldn't register a mental reaction to the blade. Pain also isn't reacting to itachi teleporting a clone behind naraka path. itachi has shown the ability to spawn clones behind his opponent at will, such as in his fight with kakashi or even how he was getting behind a perfect sage with ease, and he is better at taijutsu than pain is. Furthermore, the pains use a T- formation when they fight, where 3 pains stand one behind the other. that means the initial totsuka blade blitz is killing 3 pains off the bat Adding in kisame is just spite at that point, because he can help itachi keep up the yata mirror longer, which deflects any shinra tensei pain tries to use. it goes without saying that konan isn't even a threat to itachi either without a ridiculous amount of prep time. hell, I don't see how konan is even a match for kisame. kisame and itachi are two beasts out of her league.

      For the lower tiered pairs now:

      I'll have to think more about sasori+ deidara/orochimaru vs immortal duo. Hidan while great suffers from his severly limited arsenal. just a scythe and kenjutsu doesn't really cut the mustard too much against most of the akatsuki members. But he definitely is not as weak some in the fandom make him out to be. his immortality means he can stay for the long game, and he can definitely hold his own against some of the weaker members. But that's where kakazu's firepower comes in. kakazu is also highly experienced. orochimaru would be a problem because kakazu and hidan can't put him down, but I can see hidan and kakazu holding their own against deidara and sasori. But to be honest, I think the immortal duo might just be at the bottom of the barrel here.

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    • Totally, Obito could call people to his side even though all of them majority of the time, split up. Quit overplaying Itachi, he isn't Obito's level. Obito wasn't even with the Akatsuki throughout the time Nagato ran it until a member died. So your argument fails there. If Itachi could kill Obito, he would of and that is a fact. Nothing stops him. Everyone had their own missions and did their own thing. Obito was a secret to most of the Akatsuki and didn't actually make an appearance as one of the members until after Sasori died. Unless you are confident enough to say that Obito was scared of Itachi, then nothing stopped Itachi from attacking Obito when he's alone.

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    • 1: Obito & Zetsu: This is a meta thing, because Obito is actually the leader of the Akatsuki, and Zetsu is the one manipulating him. Obito with just Kamui is pretty potent and Zetsu has literally all of ninja history under his belt in terms of experience.

      2: Pain & Konan: Pain is the driving force of strength here. His abilities make him a swiss army knife of powers inside of 6 bodies. Konan is really strong if she's got home field advantage, but outside of that she doesn't stand out among the other Akatsuki.

      3: Itachi & Kisame: Very powerful ninja individually. They make a very powerful team. Itachi is terminally ill though, and Obito and Nagato would both have the ability to decrypt his illusions. Kisame is just a big beat stick with a sword and water moves and while he might hit hard and transform, it doesn't really make him a god-tier ninja.

      4: Kakuzu & Hidan: Kakuzu is the second most experienced member of Akatsuki, and Hidan is effing crazy. The only reason I'd put these guys at number 4 is because of how durable they are. They've both got decent offensive presence, but actually taking them off of the battlefield is a real chore.

      5: Deidara & Sasori: I have these guys as the weakest. Not because they aren't strong, but because I think the other members of Akatsuki could beat them. Sasori is the stronger of the two, and Hidan would have no real chance against him, but I think Kakuzu would be more than enough to check his strength, especially if Chiyo and Sakura could do it.

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    • I can throw that right back at you.

      Quit downplaying itachi. He is a genius of all three shinobi forms of combat, by feats and statements. he has a fast sword of sealing that most characters can't react to, a shield that deflects most attacks.He was stated to be invincible sufficient he has the yata mirror and totsuka blade, said by Black Zetsu himself, the will of Kaguya,one of the most ancient and knowledgable sources of information in the series, someone who has watched madara and hashirama fight for decades. Itachi one shotted nagato and orochimaru without a mental reaction. Naruto fans need to stop downplaying itachi's feats. his only practical weakness as a shinobi is his pitiful stamina, but it's just enough for him to execute his win condition against over 90 percent of the cast, but otherwise he obviously can't maintain susano'o forever. Kishimoto reinforced that itachi is absolutely top tier at every turn of the manga, so why the downplay? How is Black Zetsu's statements on top of everything else not enough for people? He is on obito's level, period.

      Lol no, you can't even tell me where obito was all those years. Prove that Itachi could find him all alone in a dark alley when clearly that wasn't the case. The akatsuki members mostly travel in pairs, and itachi and obito had an agreement. Kisame is with itachi the whole time, and kisame is loyal to obito. so what happens when itachi tells kisame, oh, I want to go and find tobi. they find him, and all of a sudden itachi starts trying to kill tobi. tobi reveals that he is actually "madara" to kisame, and kisame immediately understands that itachi has to go if he is trying to kill "madara". then suddenly, itachi has to fight both kisame and obito, which is not a good matchup for itachi. Obito was clearly cautious of itachi, the manga made that clear. when itachi was about to die, the akatsuki still consisted of pain, konan, and kisame. obito could simply run away while having kamui turned on and retreat to the rain village, where he can inform nagato that itachi is a traitor. what then? Itachi literally has to defect from the akatsuki, defeating the whole purpose of his mission. you also convienetly ignore itachi's other motives, which directly clashed with his mission. he wanted to die, period. he also wanted to die being labeled a traitor, so he is limited in how he could go about things. he didn't want konoha finding out that he was actually a good guy, did you somehow miss that entire portion of the manga? he wanted sasuke to be a hero for "killing him".

      @drawingblank except itachi already defeated nagato with low difficulty. nagato can't react to totsuka when itachi gets serious, period. Obito would get clone feinted by an exploding shadow clone as obito materializes, and the blade finishes him off. obito would be a tough battle, but itachi can pull it off with high difficulty, depending on which obito we are talking. With kisame by his side, itachi's terminal illness is irrelevant. Samehada is shown to give stamina to people, Kisame could convince it to lend itachi chakra. samehada is not opposed to giving people other than kisame chakra, as we have seen in the canon. and sorry, nagato also isn't "decrypting" tsyukyomi either. It's also debateable whether or not obito could break tsykuyomi. Obito doesn't get sasuke's feat, because one , sasuke had experience being trapped in it before, and two, that happened in a fight where we know itachi was putting on a act/holding back, so again, debateable.

      and nah, the immortal duo can't beat deidara and sasori. Deidara is too smart and has the perfect tools to deal with their immortality. kakazu may be highly experienced but he has been prone to being outsmarted by relatively creative shinobi, even the likes of izumo and kotetsu. kakazu beat them in the end but let's not forget they took him off guard with their homing projectile's mobility and syrup trap. Deidara is capable of taking out all his masks in one blow via C3 + c4 wombo combo. the only thing that keeps kakazu in the fight is raiton: gian, but deidara is now experienced in fighting raiton users, and he has sasori to help him take out the raiton mask. after that, deidara finishes kakazu, and sasori + deidara is too much for hidan.

      and Kisame is certainly stronger than you gave him credit for. You can clearly see that by the end of the series, kisame became a very shrewd fighter and is highly experienced. he tanked hirudora and on his deathbed still overpowered mokuton constraints designed to suppress his chakra. ignoring Zetsu, Kisame with samehada is most certainly the strongest akatsuki member behind itachi, obito, and nagato. Daikodan also takes a huge poop in most people, Might Guy was simply a bad matcup for kisame. Kisame literally can drain people dry, has bijuu levels of strength and chakra, and he doesn't get tired. you need incredible speed, power, or one shot hax to deal with him effectively. Might Guy, one of kisame's worst matchups, literally need the 6th gate to put down a thirty percent clone of kisame, enough said, and even in might guy's final battle he needed the 7 gate to defeat a kisame without samehada, which is a crippled kisame in my book.

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    • @Combat

      Where is your evidence that Kisame and Itachi are together all day everyday with no breaks from each other all their entire Akatsuki lives? If you really think I'm going to believe that Kisame and Itachi are up each other's butt forever, then your greatly misinformed. I also find it hard to believe that Itachi can't find Obito but could beat him, lol. Very unfathomable. Obito needed Itachi, cause numbers. Itachi didn't need Obito. His job was to protect Konoha and that was his only job. So nothing stops Itachi from killing Obito. So again, what stops Itachi from killing him if he can? Kisame isn't always with him, so that isn't a sufficient answer.

      There's only one reason why Itachi had not killed Obito. That is, he couldn't. That's because of Kamui. Also, Itachi beat a mindless Nagato controlled by Kabuto. He also only beat him after being helped getting away from Chibaku Tensei.

      Needing to deal with all three at once, Kabuto has Nagato use Chibaku Tensei. Itachi, Naruto, and B simultaneously use their strongest long-range attacks to destroy the growing planetoid. As Kabuto's attentions are distracted by its destruction, Itachi stabs him with Susanoo's Sword of Totsuka, which also restores his consciousness to him. Nagato.

      If it had not been for Bee and Naruto, Itachi would of been the one who was sealed. Enough said.

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    • - 1º Itachi & Kisame

      - 2º Pain & Konan

      - 3º Obito & Zetsu

      - 4º Sasori & Deidara

      - 5º Kakuzo & Hidan

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    • @Loneninja

      Terrible logic. Obito has a dimension that he can hide in that Itachi has no way to reach. You can't tell me where obito was all those years, so I accept your concession. Being able to find someone =/= being able to beat them in battle. Similarly, not being able to find someone =/= not being able to beat them in battle. If obito doesn't want to be hit, NO ONE can hit him, not even god tiers unless they can teleport into his kamui dimension, how is that hard to understand? His only weakness lies in the moment of the attack and the limits of his reflexes/sensory capabilites. If he simply decides to keep kamui active, he can do so for 5 minutes, run away, and then safely teleport away. Even minato couldn't follow him once he entered the kamui dimension. and before you use konan argument, think twice, and remember that required a rediculous amount of prep time, FULL KNOWLEDGE, which itachi was proven not to have had (why? because your boy obito already confessed that if itachi knew about kamui's secrets, obito would have been dead) and also obito underestimating her and fighting her one 1v1 on battlefield that suited konan, she had the enviornmental advantage. Obito was literally forced to maintain a pact with itachi, was forced to hide from him for years, and was forced to wait until his death to make big moves against konoha, lol. If obito brought nagato as backup, then obito surely wins against itachi, but then itachi still had kotoamatsukami to wreck havoc with, and then obito loses itachi as a valuable member. Itachi could also retreat and defect from akatsuki. obito treaded carefully and maximized his resources, but if itachi was as easy to deal with you as claimed, then obito has no reason to abide by the pact to not attack konoha directly.

      And I already told you why. Obito simply runs/teleports back to rain village and gets nagato as backup. You have yet to prove that obito would engage itachi in a 1v1 fair battle. Kisame would also eventually find out, now it's 3v1. how is that hard to undersand?

      And Black zetsu, the final antagonist, also accepts your concession. You completely ignored the fact he views itachi as invincible as long as his stamina permits the maintenance of the yata mirror and totsuka blade, on top of all of itachi's other techniques. Obviously, sick itachi especially can't sustain it for too long, but he can certainly hold his own against most top tier characters. Obito is hard to deal with because he can bypass the yata mirror, but totsuka blade + itachi's genjutsu+ clone feints can deal with him 1v1. But if obito is accompanied by someone like pain or nagato, then it's too difficult, itachi would be coughing up blood from exerting himself dealing with pain and then obito would eventually have a chance to warp him away.

      Lol, that quote proves jack squat. Killer bee didn't even use continuous bijuu dama, which is his real strongest attack. Itachi was simply being calculated and careful. He had no idea how much damage was required to destroy the chibaku tensei, so you have proven nothing, so he did the wise thing and tested it out with the firepower he had available.. You can't even prove that all 3 of those attacks were absolutely necessary, or that multiple yakaska matagama thrown one after the other wouldn't be able to destroy it eventually. His max power yakaska matagma was comparable in size to killer bee's bijuu dama, and were much bigger than the ones itachi used against kabuto. Furthermore, even if itachi couldn't break chibaku tensei by himself in a hypothetical 1v1 battle against nagato, he now has seen the technique, and all he has to do is blitz nagato with the totsuka blade before he uses it. he now knows the handseal nagato uses to cast it, and with the sharingan he can easily predict the seal before hand. Plus, there is still tsykuyomi, there is still itachi's other methods of stealing initiative. At best, all you have proven is that nagato vs itachi could go 50/50, which still puts itachi on nagato's and obito's level, period. Nagato also can't react to the blade. you are going against the manga on multiple fronts. Black Zetsu acknowledged the power of the blade, and the feats corroborate it.When the final anatagonist of the series who has literally seen gods level the terrain comes out and says itachi is invincible, it's best not to overlook it.

      @Zetantroid

      I wouldn't disrespect obito like that. He is certainly stronger than both pain and konan, and depending on how he utilizies zetsu, they certain can beat both pain and konan. So he is above pain and konan, but otherwise your list is accurate.

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    • Accept your own concession since no one conceded. That's your lean on argument when things aren't going your way. I answered the points i wanted to answer. I'm not going to go through every irrelevant sentence you make and reply to every thing. I'm not wasting my time on someone who is proven to care more for an argument and less of debate. For now on, I'm just going to use your own arguments against you so you end up arguing with yourself.

      You can't tell me where Obito is or why Itachi can't find him. I accept your concession.

      Why would Obito run away from Itachi? It's not my job to prove why something wouldn't happen, it's your job to prove why something would. Why would Obito fight Itachi 1v1 if Itachi attacked him? Simply for the reason he can kill him. What's your answer to why he wouldn't? You said it yourself, Obito literally can phase through anything Itachi can ditch out. Enough said.

      I could also careless about what Zetsu said. He obviously didn't know people and attacks can come from underneath the half susanoo and enter it's confines cause if that's the case, he isn't invincible. I mean, Obito literally can just -Kamui's in-. Lol, wow so invincible. According to that statement, Itachi > Kaguya, Momoshiki/ w Kinshiki Absorbed, Jubi Madara, Jubi Obito, Current Naruto and Sasuke, and every other person in the series at the same time. Invincible means too powerful to be defeated. If you think I'm going to think Itachi can solo the entire Narutoverse at the same time, then woah. You reached new heights with your overplaying Itachi's abilities. Itachi couldn't even solo one of the stated people i presented, therefore the statement is debunked.

      And the quote means everything. The fact is, your omnipotent Itachi was the one who stated they needed to use their most powerful attacks, all three of them. Therefore, Itachi > You, especially when you're arguing for him. Itachi stated all three of them needed to use their most powerful long range attacks. The Manga shown and Itachi stated it took all three of those attacks to destroy that core. Until you prove otherwise, that's what i'm abiding by. Manga and Itachi > You.

      "Nagato also can't react to the blade. you are going against the manga on multiple fronts."

      I've debunked this with my quote so i accept your concession. You have to prove why Nagato can't react to it since he wasn't the one in control. You're the one going against the manga by stating crud like this.

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    • Hidan is best because he cant die

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    • Quanderek wrote: Hidan is best because he cant die

      being undergroud he is also immune to infinite tsukuyomi ahahahaha XD

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    • Itachi and Pain They would be unstoppable if they actually got serious and really teamed up

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    • for me it goes...

      1 - Pein & Konan - do not ever underestimate the Rinnegan. Nagato flattened a whole village after a great deat of fighting with hundreds of shinobi, while Konan actually almost killed Obito if not for Izanagi which was boosted to high heavens by Hashirama cells.

      2 - Obito and Zetsu - now i know they should be number 1. really, the war arc Obito can easily take on Pein and Konan duo and anyone else really, but we are taking him from his time in Akatsuki. he doesnt have that Rinnegan super buff and the fact that he almost died at the hands of Konan before the Rinnegan buff clearly shows that he could actually be taken down by the number 1 duo. Zetsu may be Kaguya's will, but the guy simply has shown no fighting prowess.

      3 - Itachi and Kisame - two overhyped character that never really won anything solo. i mean, we can say that Kisame took down Roshi on his own, but we never saw the fight in canon or in the anime so we cannot be certain. also the two never really won any fights. forced to run from Konoha shinobi and later Jiraiya, got their dopplegangers ass kicked by Team Kakashi and Team Gai, Kisame got his ass thrashed by B and A and later with Gai. the only decisive victory so far was of Itachi against Sasuke and even then with all of his super buffs like Amaterasu, Tsukyomi, Susanoo, Yata Mirror and Totsuka Sword and all he was still pushed to his limits by Hebi Sasuke. cry you might that Itachi all wanted Sasuke to win, but dont take away the fact that Sasuke pushed him to his limits. And that Pein win in the war, just dont, because it was a 3 on 1. Naruto, B and Itachi, all an S rank shinobi in its own right. Naruto could even be considered greater given that clones of his were actually going head on with Kage level shinobi. and just because Itachi could throw shuriken from blindspot of the Rinnegan means nothing. the fact that the 3 needed to use their strongest jutsu to destroy CHibaku Tensei should speak volumes of how Itachi could not solo Nagato. i mean, B fired a TBB, which could destroy a fucking village, while all Itachi fired were three or so Yasaka Magmata which is nothing compared to the damage of B's TBB. Itachi just used that shock of destruction of TBB and the dust and debris cover he provided to spear Nagato with his sword.

      4 - Sasori and Diedra - all down to the latter and his C3 (i think that is the mini bombs one)

      5 - Kakuzu and Hidan

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    • C4 is the mini-bombs that are actually pretty OP if not for the stupid range restriction

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    • Areeb.hasan wrote: C4 is the mini-bombs that are actually pretty OP if not for the stupid range restriction

      Yes. C4. my mistake there.

      But OP they are not. i mean, see it as plot armour or not, C4 was dealt by Sasuke relatively easily.

      Diedera's weakness is Raiton. so are that of all of his Jutsu. Just have someone use a Raiton around the area and all of his mini bombs are diffused.

      it sounds cool. looks cool. but one Raiton user and it is nothing by clay particles.

      and for Akatasuki.

      we have Nagato-Konan duo who uses corpses to fight so no loss there. even then Rinnegan can see those mini bombs. Nagato actually can use Raiton. and even if doesnt use it he can simply blow them away by Shinra Tensei.

      Obito and Zetsu - Obito was there and he survived. enough said. oh, also Sharingan.

      Itachi and Kisame - SHaringan, enough said. Kisame has Samehada which can sense the bombs and wouldnt Samehada on contact with those mini bombs suck out their Chakra. it could suck Biju CHakra. It sucked a fireball from Itachi. so what is stopping it from sucking the Explosion chakra of the mini clay bombs.

      Hidan and Kakuzu - Kakuzu also has Raiton. that is all about they can really do. but it wasnt like Sasuke needed Sharingan to deduce C4s working. he deduced simply by seeing things turning into dust and the distance Diedera himself kept. Sharingan just confirmed it for him. Even then i still keep Hidan and Kakuzu below Diedera and Sasori for that very reason

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    • so is pain all the pains or just the push pull one. or is it Nagato because witch one it is makes a difference

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    • Itachisempi wrote: so is pain all the pains or just the push pull one. or is it Nagato because witch one it is makes a difference

      Pein, no matter who, because of the Rinnegan can see chakra just like Sasuke did with the Sharingan.

      Nagato certainly can use Raiton. just because he stopped doing so doesnt mean he can't. i mean the guy used the RIkudo no Jutsu through corpses, but once he was summoned as an Edo and didnt have any corpses he used Rikudo no Jutsu by himself.

      Deva was shown in the anime to use Suiton against Naruto in his fight. so it is clear that the paths can also use Ninjutsu.

      even without Raiton...

      Deva can Shinra Tensei use Shinra Tensei the mini bombs. Preta can simply use his absorbtion on them. Animal probably has some summon that can use Raiton. and Nagato can do all that.

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    • I would argue that Pain and Konan couldn't beat Obito. Kamui is just a really hacked power. Unless they are given prep time for Konan to set traps and push Obito, I don't really see Nagato capitalizing.

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    • I agree with loneninjas statement

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    • Goku would kill them all

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    • Yeah he would

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    • @Loneninja

      I suggest you reread my post, like literally. You missed a lot of context. Contrary to popular belief, I simply accept concessions when my argument hasn't even been addressed. normally saying that gets users to better analyze the data and at least actually present a proper counterargument. if i see that the argument has been addressed then we carry on. if you still disagree, that isn't an issue.

      Lol, it's pretty funny how you ignore the manga just to downplay a fictional character. Black zetsu literally has seen all of shinobi history and is objectively one of the smartest characters in the show, but now he doesn't know what he is talking about just because you don't want to give itachi the credit he deserves? lmao.

      It's obvious. Itachi is only invincible sufficient he can maintain his susano'o. I myself has stated that multiple times. One v one, itachi can certainly compete with some of the god tiers, that much is obvious. Susano'o forms in under a second, the totsuka blade is insanely fast, itachi is smarter than kaguya, and the yata mirror blocks her attacks. Whether or not he actually wins depends on if the totsuka blade can seal her, which is a decision for kishimoto to make, so I don't have an answer for you.

      Itachi's weaknesses compound against multiple opponents because again, if he can't maintain susano'o, he is no longer god tier. His stamina limits him. Black zetsu is also fully aware of the undeground weakness, but he also knows itachi is smart enough to know that underground attacks are the weakness, so itachi can easily counter those just like every other character. Like I said, with susano'o he is in the same tier as minato, nagato obito, and also in the same playing field as hashirama and madara. Those 5 characters literally are all the characters just one tier below god tier, so yes Itachi is up there. The yata mirror and totsuka blade pushes him to borderline god tier status because of their hax, his eye techniques, and his intellect. take away the totsuka blade and yata mirror and sure itachi can't do many of the things I have said, but I have no reason to take away items he worked and searched for. So they are apart of his arsenal. Black zetsu still accepts your concession.

      I literally could care less if any user here thinks I'm an itachi fanboy just because they can't comprehend simple statements from credible sources. Black zetsu is literally the most credible source in the manga because he was there from start to finish. His statements aren't baseless hype. Even if you are one of those people who think that Black zetsu is a retconned character, it's still irrelevant. why? because what was his role in the akatsuki before the whole kaguya thing? information gathering and espionage. So yes, when he says those spiritual items make itachi invinicible, and when someone like orochimaru dedicated a large amount of their time to finding those items, I take it seriously.

      That isn't to say that there aren't a few character combos that would be very problematic and could outlast itachi. an easy example is minato + tobirama. both of them are fast enough and reflexive enough to avoid totsuka blade and they both rival itachi in intellect. so if they FTG about and force him to waste susano'o or simply teleport it away I see itachi losing. so obviously there are logistics and a few rare outliers to itachi's invincibility, but it still comes back to the same issue: itachi's stamina. so you have been debunked.

      I even Said obito+ nagato is enough to beat itachi most times because obito is someone itachi can beat 1v1 but he can't beat obito while focusing on nagato. Obito is too fast and can easily bypass the yata mirror and totsuka blade, so again he is just an outlier. itachi can take obito 1v1 but not with someone at the level of nagato also distracting him.

      Your nagato point is debunked. kabuto was using the third raikage's raiton reflex boost while controlling him, so while controlling nagato kabuto has nagato's abilitiles and reflexes. Nagato's reflexes couldn't react to the blade, period. like I said, even if itachi can't break chibaku tensei by himself, that is irrelevant now because itachi has the intel now. he won't let nagato use it this time around. and itachi said that because he didn't know what the minimumm damage to destroy the core was. You really just don't get it. I bet you think that itachi would have opted to throw paper bombs instead to test the technique's defenses lol. If it was actually shown that the minimum damage to bust the core required all three techniques, you would have an argument. But since itachi has no intel on how durable the black core is, your argument is rendered mute. itachi was simply being cautious. @Nashikene, That is quite the headcanon there. Itachi literally hasn't been in q serious battle outside of orochimaru ( who he solo'd twice with miminal difficulty, and orochimaru is easily a mid-tier kage), and nagato. As I already stated to loneninja, the fact that the 3 needed their strongest attacks is a falsity. why? because we never saw what itachi's max power yakasa matagama can do. You can clearly see that the matagama itachi used against kabuto and the ones he used against chibaku tensei have a HUGE difference in size, so not sure where the downplay is coming from. Furthermore, killer bee didn't use continous bijuu dama, which is his real strongest attack. You have no proof that all 3 attacks were absolutely necessary. Itachi had zero intel on the core so he had no idea how much damage was necessary, so he used common sense and had each of his allies attack it with their powerful techniques all at once, period.

      Furthermore, naruto and killer bee would have been able to turn things around against nagato in my opinion if itachi didn't show up. Yes, they were losing, but naruto literally lost because of information. In his previous battle with pain, he never actually faced the chameleon technique first hand, nor did he ever experience ningendo. furthermore, naruto couldn't use any shadow clones. Nagato literally had all the advantages there, so it made sense naruto would lose. Killer bee on the other hand had zero experience with the rinnegan at the time, so he made understandable mistakes that put him in a bind. if itachi didn't intervene, killer bee would have simply entered full bijuu mode to break free of the restraints nagato had him in. that could possibly give enough of an opening for naruto take his soul back. After that, the battle resets in favour of killer bee and naruto. At that point naruto knows how to counter every one of the other rinnegan techniques. he can better communicate the rinnegan techniques to killer so they can use teamwork, chakra arms to counter shinra tensei. In my opinion, naruto and killer bee are smart enough to develop a strategy to counter the shinra tensei+ preta path combo. naruto didn't get the chance to use his raikage level speed against nagato because he was caught in mid air. If naruto actually touched the ground in that fight, things would have went differently.

      What people also forget is that there is also such a thing as fights that can go either way. Just because you saw a character lose in the canon doesn't mean they would lose ten times out of ten, you need to pay attention to why they lost as well. Sometimes it's a simple lack of intel. A classic example would be apparent if you simply watched kakashi's fight with zabuza. Zabuza literally stomped kakashi with bunshinfeints and had him sealed in a water prison. after that, kakashi stomped zabuza by copying his techniques. That fight literally went both ways. it's often the case that between two evenly matched opponents whoever makes the first small mistake loses. kcm naruto (with clones) + killer bee against edo nagato could have gone either way in my opinion. killer bee's ink clone can seal nagato maybe.

      And yes itachi has a shot at soloing nagato. he already solo'd him in the canon. Nagato couldn't form a mental reaction to use preta path to absorb the totsuka blade. Even if you think itachi can't break chibaku tensei by himself, that doesn'tchange the fact itachi now knows when it's coming and what it entails. he didn't try to stop the technique before because he didn't have the intel and he was focused on protecting naruto and bee. now he knows about chibaku tensei and can predict the seal with chibaku tensei. Itachi beats nagato with a simple finger genjutsu, which nagato breaks, only to be one shot by totsuka blade as per canon.

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    • @Combat

      I stopped reading once you said Itachi was on even playing field as Hagoromo and Madara. Even saying he has a single chance against a killing intent Kaguya when she can literally destroy the entire world with a TSB, was a riot. Nothing need to be said after that. That's clear evidence you overhype Itachi's capabilities. I won't be addressing you moving forward in this thread cause if you think Itachi is on the level of a planet killer, then I can't say anything to change that falsity mindset.

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    • You guys do realize that Kishimoto said he had to kill Itachi, or else Madara Uchiha would have been defeated long before he would have been brought back to life. Still I would not put Itachi over Madara's level.

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    • @SonofNeptune

      LOL, you do realize that statement was created by a Itachi fan boy who wanted Itachi to be a god and Kishimoto actually never said that. If he did, prove it. When and where?

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    • LMAO Bakayaro. The statement was on this wiki itself and you can't find it. Search the interview between Kobayashi and Kishimoto. And never forget that Orochimaru, Kisame, and Obito all admitted Itachi to be stronger than them. If you remember, the Limited Tsukuyomi world where Itachi just looked at Obito, Obito pissed his pants.

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    • @Son

      First off, calling someone stupid is against Wiki's policies, so if you don't want to get banned, check yourself. Secondly, the only thing stupid is the false bullshit that people say to overhype a character while trying to deceive others with saying the writer said something when they didn't. [1], There's the interview on this wiki. Nothing about Itachi being killed off cause of Madara, was ever mentioned. So do you got any real facts or are you going to result to more false statements?

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    • Apart from that interview then the rest was 100% true based on quotes and actions from characters in the anime and manga. Also sorry for saying something against Wiki's policies and only now have I realized that it was a false statement. That was my loss, but not the rest.

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    • @Loneninja

      That last comment of yours just shows how close minded you are. Just as I thought, you use DBZ logic. Oh, so Itachi can't blow up a planet so he isn't on their level? Really ? Itachi is never meant to be a landscape buster. His skill set and arsenal is optimized for 1v1 battle. totsuka blade isn't a nuke, it's a super fast one shot sword of sealing, smh. The Yata mirror walls Kaguya to hell and back as per Databook 3, and Kaguya's will's statement. Literally Kaguya's will said that and you still ignore manga facts. When you develop an open mind on this subject, I'm happy to address future counterarguments. We have seen that even silly feints like henge no jutsu can stun kaguya, so what do you think a master of feints like Itachi can do? All he needs is to kick up some debris, use his exploding shadow clone, and utilize the crazy speed of the totsuka blade to his advantage and he can replicate the same things team 7 used to tag her multiple times. Sakura was able to exploit the byakugan blindspot. And unlike Sasuke, itachi's susano'o can actually tank kaguya's attacks because of Yata.

      And yes itachi is on madara's level. It's a simple matter of whether or not totsuka blade can pierce perfect susano'o is all. Tsykyuomi is also debatable.

      You didn't read the entirety of someone's comments because you didn't like cold hard manga facts?? Yikes.

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    • @Combat

      You have no cold hard facts. Just overhype dribble. Kaguya can blow up a world. Itachi can't live without a world. Bam, he's dead. The fact you even think that Itachi > Sixth Paths Naruto and Sixth Paths Sasuke together who couldn't take out Kaguya, is just pure overhype bull. I have nothing to say to someone like that. That's even worst than when the fanboy who started the fallacy that Kishimoto stated he killed off Itachi cause Itachi would kill Madara. Smh. Nothing even suggests that Itachi or any of his attacks can move at their speed let alone beat them. Lol.

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    • "There is a reason Susanoo boasts absolute perfection in both offence and defence— That reason is the Sacred Treasures[52] he holds in both hands. In his right hand is the Totsuka Sword[53] that will strike down any kind of enemy and the shield in his left hand is the Yata Mirror[54] that will reflect all attacks. Whether they be material or spiritual, ninjutsu or physical attacks, they all lose their meaning before this god's potency."


      "The incorporeal shield of the "Sacred Treasures". Endowed with all nature transformations, it can change its own characteristics depending on the characteristics of the attack it receives, making the technique ineffective. link:https://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/User:ShounenSuki/Third_Databook_Translations#Susanoo_.28pp._274.E2.80.93275.29 Databook 3 debunks you. Kaguya already admittted inferiority through Black Zetsu. I haven't used any fallacies, there is no need. The manga and databook provide enough proof. You and your abc logic is the issue. Does SPSM naruto or Sasuke have Yata Mirror or Totsuka blade? no i didn't think so. If naruto had the totsuka blade kaguya would have died at the beginning of the fight. instead of punching her he would have used the blade. You simply ignore what those weapons are capable of time and again for who knows why. Those weapons make almost anyone god tier, and then the author decided to put them in the hands of a genius. It's not my fault that kishimoto made itachi that op, take it up with the writer if you have an issue with it. Totsuka blade is more than fast enough to tag Kaguya with the support of a solid feint, which Itachi is more than capable of doing. Kaguya is relatively inexperienced. Itachi's illusions won't work on her because of her dojutsu and ridiculous chakra reserves, but simple smokescreens plus a karasu bunshin is enough to stun her. Those crows were even able to stun sage mode kabuto, and if kaguya is dumb enough to fall for henge she is falling for that technique too, and totsuka blitz follows a half-second afterward, gg. Even though she has access to a byukagan, she managed to miss details like obito and sakura sneaking into her dimension. It's very concerning that I have presented you facts and you refuse to look at the data with an open mind.

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    • @Combat

      I refuse to believe bs, is all. Itachi, the Totsuka blade, anything Itachi even possesses couldn't even hope to move at god tier speed. Your only evidence to Totsuka blade's speed is Orochimaru which is still debated by everyone. And Orochimaru is no where close to their speed so the feat against him is irrelevant. Until you show me proof that Totsuka is faster than Light, then keep dreaming. Kaguya easily destroys the world. The shield can't block what doesn't connect. Kaguya just blows up the planet and Itachi wouldn't be able to stop it. Byebye with ease. Heck, that's overkill. All she really needs to do is teleport inside Susanoo and take Itachi into another dimension and drop him in a lake of lava. Lmao. Itachi is nowhere near God tier even with those items. Quit overplaying him, he couldn't even solo Kabuto.

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    • @Loneninja


      Loneninja:"Quit overplaying him, he couldn't even solo Kabuto.

      Rofl at the bolded. Clearly a biased point of view. You cite a fight where itachi was explicitly shown and stated to not want to kill kabuto. Why is it so hard to understand that if itachi had killer intent against kabuto, kabuto would be dead? Replace each of those times itachi cut off his horn with sasuke's sword with the totsuka blade and kabuto is dead, period. Totsuka blade is literally the only thing that can actually kill kabuto, and itachi was restricted from using it for reasons explained in the canon. This is what I'm talking about, clearly a closed minded point of view. Itachi defeated kabuto yet you still downplay feats. sure, kabuto may have caught itachi off guard a few times but those never would have happened if itachi was immediately allowed to kill him from the start, and if sasuke wasn't distracting itachi. in fact most of the actions sasuke conducted could have been done by an itachi shadow clone, because Itachi was the one coaching.


      I accept your concession. This time, you really have gone way too far. I literally cited you evidence from the manga and databook and you have no counterargument, other than it's "bs" because you don't want itachi to win. Me saying "yikes" here is an understatement. Kaguya's will literally says those weapons are god tier weapons. The yata mirror turns back any attack. How is plain English hard to understand? It's not, I know for a fact you understand the link I sent you, so the only thing I can conclude since you have not presented a counterargument is that you are intentionally being close minded. Vacccum palms? reflected. bijuu dama ? reflected. murderous ash bones? reflected. hair needles? reflected.

      First of all, when has kaguya shown the ability to instantly blow the planet? Last I checked, the jutsu you are referring to requires prep time, as she couldn't do anything with it when sakura punched her in the head. So no, she gets sealed before that even becomes a problem. Rofl, was sakura faster than light when she tagged Kaguya? you are reaching to ridiculous levels. The totsuka blade doesn't need to be light speed to connect. all he needs is a solid feint-smokescreens, karasu bunshin, and the fact that the totsuka blade only needs a second to land.


      now in theory, kaguya's teleportation techniques could be the one thing that gives her a chance to win. But those aren't as uncounterable as you are claiming either. Itachi is capable of moving while fighting, plus there is Yata mirror which you keep downplaying. Like I said, the shield doesn't have an actual physical form and can change its properties and is endowed with all nature transformations. What is lava? a combination of two nature transformations that the yata mirror has. You are simply shutting off your mind to the possibilities. I see no reason why the yata mirror can't change it's shape and use the appropriate nature transformations to render the lava ineffective if itachi falls in it and changes the orientation of his body such that the shield lands directly on top of the lava. Itachi and the yata mirror will adjust accordingly. lava dimension, acid dimension, all lose their meaning before yata mirror. Gravity dimension is even better, cause now kaguya would have a harder time dodging the totsuka blade. ice dimension is countered by itachi's fire techniques just like sasuke did. The dimensional rifts are the only thing that's a real threat to itachi because kaguya can theorectically teleport inside his susano'o, but that is something itachi can deal with rather easily via his classic karasu bunshin substituton. not to mention susano'o can move and conduct attacks even if the user isn't standing inside of it, and itachi himself is capable of moving while fighting. Kaguya maybe way faster than itachi but is a lightning timer in terms of reflexes, plus he is smarter and more experienced than she is and can time his attacks and maneuvers better. It's definitely doable for him.

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    • @Combat

      Completely biased.

      "Why is it so hard to understand that if itachi had killer intent against kabuto, kabuto would be dead? "

      If Itachi was alive, he wouldn't have lasted even half as long as he did. And if he didn't have Sasuke, he would of stayed paralyzed and unable to move from the sound Genjutsu.

      Expansive Truth-Seeking Ball, stated to be a able to obliterate the entire world. As if Itachi could stop her. All she would need to do is teleport away, and blow up the world. Itachi wouldn't be able to do anything. So much for your falsity. Accept your own concession. Heck, she can literally instantly teleport Itachi into a realm of lava. Bye bye. Amenominaka, "teleports everyone within a certain range to one of her dimensions. As it occurs instantly, enemies can be caught completely off guard; some have found themselves plunging into a river of lava,[2] and encased within a block of ice.[3]".

      I still have yet to see proof that Totsuka can even move at god tier speed. So I accept your concession that Totsuka cannot move at that speed.

      Also, the biasism. You would say anything to help Itachi win. Smokescreens? The way you take away Kaguya's abilities. Knock Knock, Byakugan. If it were that simple, Sasuke and Naruto who move far faster than Totsuka blade could even dream of reaching, would've done it. Lightning timer? Kaguya moves faster than that. Black Zetsu? He called Itachi dense in Viz. Dense is an informal way of calling someone stupid. So you can take Black Zetsu's comment of Itachi being "invincible" and I'll just use his comment of him being dense in the viz translation. Can't nick pick when it only serves you. He also called Kaguya an almighty god (God, N, the creator and ruler of the universe and source of all moral authority; the supreme being). That she was the progenitor of Chakra. He also said Sasuke getting out of Kaguya's desert dimension was impossible. That Tobi likely perished in Deidara's explosion. Black Zetsu has said a lot of things that turned out to be wrong. Therefore, he is hardly a credible source of information when it comes to others.

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    • @Loneninja

      Rofl, completely biased is you. Itachi tagged kabuto with a sword multiple times. Replace sasuke's sword with the totsuka blade and kabuto lost within the the first chapter of their fight. lmao no. It was itachi who came up with the strategy to free himself and sasuke from the genjutsu, not the other way around. This just shows your bias. The partner method was shown to be the absolute most efficient way to break any genjutsu. Itachi used double partner method to ensure himself and sasuke broke out at exactly the same time and so they could both counterattack kabuto. Killer bee doesn't bother trying to break genjutsu himself because it's easier to just have gyuki do it for him. If sasuke wasn't there, itachi would have used genjutsu reversal just like he did to kurenai. Even kurenai had itachi trapped for a few panels before he broke out.

      Itachi would have died if he was alive because of sasuke distracting him and he wasn't allowed to kill kabuto from the start and go full force. Thank you for citing how gimped itachi was in his fight with kabuto.

      Rofl! Does Kaguya keep her byakugan active 24/7? why do we see her deactivating it? why didn't she notice obito and sakura hiding with naruto's clone? how did she miss naruto and sasuke switching places with each other? even with byakugan active, sakura of all people tagged her. itachi's smoke screen would be supplemented by the karasu bunshin feint.

      LMAO I cannot breathe. Black Zetsu called itachi dense? Yeah, no. The Viz doesn't always have the right translation for everything even if it's the official one. The other translations in this case make more sense with the context. Zetsu is obviously saying sasuke is more dense than itachi. Zetsu has commended itachi's abilities many times, the fact you singled out that translation shows you have a closed mind on the subject.

      Rofl, except the Databook 3 came through and supported Black Zetsu's comments and explained the actual mechanics of the mirror and why it's invincible, so yeah no.

      Ice dimension? Yata mirror turns into fire and melts the ice around him, and itachi uses amaterasu as well. Lava dimension? Yata mirror turns into water + whatever else to stop susano'o from melting. Use your imagination. it's endowed with all the nature transformations in existence.

      Totsuka blade blitzed nagato who is the third ridoku without a reaction. Both the manga and anime show the same thing and in both cases the blade nigh instantly blitzed through him. the blade clearly is incredibly fast. Rofl Kaguya got stunned by henge , what is stopping itachi's crows from disorienting her?

      kaguya moves faster than lightning? based on what exactly? Might guy was relativistic and was bending space with his speed and he even without night guy he was faster than juubidara. Sasuke naruto and kaguya weren't shown to be anywhere near as fast as might guy. madara had no trouble with naruto and sasuke's speed except for when sasuke was using an actual teleportation technique, so yeah, no.

      Lol like I said, kaguya is inexperienced. She would be dead by the time she is able to utilize that big planet busting technique. You don't always get to use your big finishing move. The technique disappeared after she was sealed away. At best, itachi will be forever stuck in some random dimension but he would have defeated her. I guess that counts as a battle field removal, so at worst it's a draw for itachi.

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    • @Combat

      I am not biased. The fact I hold Itachi at a high regard calling him Kage tier shows that. I'm just not ignorant or super fanned out to call him god tier and invincible. Minato is my absolute favorite character, and even I know he can't stand against God Tier. The fact you think he is god tier and invincible clearly shows you're biased. There is no possible way he can compete with any of the god tier, period. If he could, he would of killed Obito and the entire Akatsuki alone, who weren't god tier. Everyone god tier could solo the Akatsuki. SP Naruto. Sp Sasuke. Kaguya who is the ten tails. Jubi Madara. Jubi Obito. Etc. Itachi cannot, therefore a prime example of how he isn't close to being god tier.

      Also. Another example of a bias point of view. Who cares who came up with the plan. No Sasuke, no plan. No Sasuke, no breaking free. No Sasuke, death. Period.

      About Kaguya's Byakugan. I got a good one. "Plot" LMAO. No, just teasing, I ain't got to rely on that tactic. Who cares what happened between multiple enemies. Itachi isn't any of them. She isn't spamming taxing techniques trying to kill god tier shinobi like Sp Naruto and Sp Sasuke. It's explicitly stated by your all knowing Black Zetsu that she needed to conserve her Chakra. Besides, as if Itachi could make it even that far. I accept your concession on the ETSB.

      LMAO. Clear biased point of view. "Black Zetsu said Itachi is invincible so it's legit." "Black Zetsu called him dense but that part isn't legit". Clear proof how you nit pick accept what only benefits you and deny what conflicts. Enough said, I accept your concession. Also, unless it's from a legal source, it isn't legit. Therefore, only Viz's or the raw translation is legit. So until I see a raw, Black Zetsu called him dense.

      Ice and Fire Dimensions are not attacks. They are environments. Attack. N, an aggressive and violent action against a person or place. Last I checked, none living environments don't have emotion to be aggressive or intention to be violent. Since it's explicitly stated to only block attacks, Itachi can't block natural lava minding it's own business. Just dropping him in is enough while Kaguya leaves. Itachi falls, tries to block, get's surrounded and molted. Good game. Can't block what it doesn't make contact with. What goes up must come down. So even if he could block normal lava (which he can't), he would fall deeper into the lava, the lava will surround him, he will die. But that's just one of many ways how she can easily kill him. Another is teleportation and ash killing in the gravity dimension. Bam, can't block that. No Obito or Kakashi to save the day. Heck, it don't even got to be in that dimension. Teleporting inside his susanno and using the bones to shank him is enough.

      Based on Sp Naruto moving faster than Light. Therefore, Kaguya, Jubi Madara, Sp Sasuke, merged Momoshiki, and anyone who went toe to toe with Naruto who had intent to kill or beat, has the ability to move just as fast.

      Might Guy was moving so fast that it bended space. Therefore, his speed transcends them all since no one else has done the same.

      Totsuka didn't blitz anyone. It hit a controlled puppet of a distracted Kabuto who wasn't even on the scene.

      How would he defeat her? Totsuka? Not fast enough. She doesn't even need to stay around him to win. She can literally leave him like she did Sasuke in a desert to die. And who says she needs to be around Itachi to blow up the world? If she wants to blow up the world she can teleport wherever and whenever and do so. Itachi can't do shit about it. Kaguya is god tier, Itachi is not. You have yet to prove he is. You can't even prove he can beat Nagato who isn't even God Tier, lol. Heck even Kisame with Samehada and Water Release: Great Exploding Water Colliding Wave can probably take on Itachi.

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    • Kisame said himself Itachi is stronger than him, and if Kisame himself expresses that confidence then that's a fact. Kisame was even sure that Itachi could beat Jiraiya AND the Jonin and confused as to why they were fleeing instead.

      and no, Itachi cannot beat Kaguya unless he gets lucky and lands the SoT. NOBODY can beat Kaguya unless they have the SoT or Six Paths Chibaku Tensei. She is literally the strongest thing there is in the Narutoverse as of yet.

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    • @Flatzone

      Maintain an open mind my friend The Yata Mirror is endowed with ALL nature transformations lmao. It's essentially a truth seeking orb shield but better because it adapts perfectly to any attack, whether it's a ninjutsu, physical attack, taijutsu, or an astral body. Look at this page:https://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Nature_Transformation The Yata Mirror has ALL those transformations. That means the yata mirror has particle style too. Sorry, I know that Kaguya is the progenitor of chakra, but kishimoto said Itachi>than Kaguya in 1v1 fair battle through black zetsu and databook. Itachi wins via skill, not luck, and by virtue of his susano'o invincibility. If Kaguya was smarter and more experienced, I would agree with you, but she is not.

      @Loneninja Rofl, I'm very sorry that you are uncomfortable with how overpowered the Yata mirror and totsuka blade are, but you must accept manga and databook facts. Minato isn't god tier because he has no way of finishing any of the god tiers. rasengan isn't doing jack to most of the god tiers. His speed and reflexes outside of FTG aren't good enough. He also doesn't have an ultimate defense. lmao, Itachi can kill any of the akatsuki members 1v1. The issue is if there are multiples then he will run into a problem because Itachi is god tier in every way except for stamina. 3 MS techniques push him to a tired state. After that he starts coughing up blood, and when that happens he can't maintain susano'o properly. If his control over susano'o weakens he loses access to the yata mirror, which is the condition that grants him invincibilty. That is part of the reason why he never risked taking on the akatsuki. Furthermore, healthy itachi stopped existing after part one. He has a terminal illness now lmao, on top of his already shit stamina plus MS side effects. Kishimoto had to nerf itachi into the ground and give itachi a reason to die prematurely or he would have helped konoha defeat the akatsuki too easy lmao.

      Rofl, no. SHIKAMARU broke tayuya's genjutsu by biting his lip as a genin. Tayuya's genjutsu was also amplified by CS2, which is senjutsu chakra. ITachi is literally a genjutsu god and has a MS. If itachi was by himself, he would have broken the genjutsu by himself, but with less efficency, it's that simple. Itachi used partner method with sasuke because one, partner method is more efficient and faster, and two, if itachi just focused on himself he couldn't be sure that sasuke could break it himself. What part of he wanted to protect sasuke the whole fight don't you understand?

      Lol kaguya can open with her planet buster if she wants. The problem is you fail to take into account kaguya's inexperience. Yes in theory, kaguya's arsenal can beat itachi but that doesn't mean kaguya herself can do it. Personality, intelligence, and experience still matter a ton. Lol no, kaguya didn't use her byakugan properly because she was inexperienced. That was the whole running theme in that fight. she only lasted as long as she did because Black Zetsu was coaching her. Itachi would wall her initial attack with yata mirror, which would in itself create a huge smokescreen. in that commotion itachi can easily outsmart her field of vision by using a karasu bunshin feint. this is the same dude who broke the rinnegan's field of vision. he can do the same to the byakugan and take advantage of kaguya's inexperience. after that totsuka blitz ends the match before it even begins. The planet busting attack requires prep time like I said. kaguya won't get the chance to leave after she prepares it because totsuka blitz will happen, no ifs or buts. kaguya needs to be in her root dimension in order to spawn it, and itachi will have initiative once she starts creating it. Kaguya isn't calculating enough to deal with itachi and itachi's arsenal. Lol no, guy bended space only with his fastest technique. Juubidara could barely mentally react, and nothing says guy was light speed. Bending space to the degree guy did puts him in the ballpark of light speed though. Naruto never came close to bending space, so he isn't anywhere near light speed lmao. rofl, what part of the yata mirror is endowed with ALL nature transformations are you not getting. If itachi lands in the lava the lava will start melting susano'o, that constitutes an attack. nothing says the attacks have to be sentient in order for the yata mirror to counter it. For all we know the yata mirror will turn into particle style and atomize all the lava, or use any of the other combinations to get rid of it lmao. there are too many combinations for the yata mirror to use. the databook doesn't say how the yata mirror choses it's nature transformations, it simply says it chooses whatever attributes will render the attack moot, so I imagine if there is more than one attribute that can work the yata mirror might simply choose one at random. as for the ice, itachi simply uses amaterasu, and if kaguya decides to control the ice the yata mirror will turn into fire and melt everything lol. rofl the gravity dimension stomps kaguya too. now she can't dodge the totsuka blade easily at all.

      furthermore, now that I think about it, nothing says the yata mirror can't protect itachi from attacks inside his susano'o. the shield literally has no physical form and can change any of it's properties to any one of those nature transformations I listed. absolutely no reason it can't change shape and offer protection. If kaguya opens a dimensional rip inside susano'o and tries to send an ashbone in there, the yata mirror could use magnetic style to repel the bones. As long as Itachi can maintain the yata mirror he truly is invincible, the problem will only happen once he starts coughing up blood.


      Lmao kisame? Tsykuyomi gg. Itachi was kisame's senior in the duo, that much is obvious. Daikodan? reflected by the Yata mirror lmao. Itachi already gg'd nagato with low difficulty via totuska blitz, so nothing else to say there.

      LMAO no. You are taking Black zetsu's words out of context. He is saying sasuke is denser than itachi. you are focusing on the word dense out of desperation, but that word can easily be substituted with "dumber" and it's clear what Black Zetsu meant. He is saying itachi is smarter than sasuke. Tobirama is smarter than kakashi. So if I say kakashi is denser than tobirama does it mean tobirama is dumb? of course not lmao. Kakashi is smart, but tobirama is smarter.

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    • @Combat

      Almighty God (Supreme Being, aka superior to all which includes Itachi) > Invincible. Debunked.

      Black Zetsu has been wrong multiple times, therefore his statement is debunked. Databook doesn't state he's invincible either, so debunked.

      Can't even prove he can beat Nagato, so debunked.

      Yet, Itachi didn't break the Genjutsu and needed Sasuke, so debunked.

      Kaguya was stated to hold back and conserve her Chakra that entire fight therefore the reason isn't her inexperience, it's due to her limits, so debunked. If Kaguya is inexperienced so is Itachi. I think fighting Hagoromo and Hamura alone beats any experience Itachi could obtain. Let's also not forget her being an Otsutsuki therefore witness to the strongest clan in the entire universe. So debunked.

      Nothing states Itachi can protect himself from the inside, therefore debunked.

      Why would Kisame look into the eyes of someone he knows full well what he is capable of when they fight to the death? Clear evidence of you easily overplaying your character by easily making Kisame have 0 I.q. LMAO. "Itachi, I'm going to kill you, but first let me look into your eyes even though I know full well what you are capable of..." Riot. Yata Mirror is useless against the Great Colliding Wave since the point is to trap the target in a sphere of water. Good Luck keeping up with Kisame merged with Samehada in there.

      Actually, you obviously don't know what a comparative adjective is. Denser is calling another dumber than person A, yes. However, by calling them dumber, they are saying you are more dumb than this person. They are still calling Person A dumb just Person B is dumber. If he wasn't trying to call Itachi dense, he wouldn't have said denser than Itachi, he would of said less smart or would of just called Sasuke dense period. But he didn't. He called them both dense with Sasuke being denser. But I understand how this conflicts with your false evidence so you will do whatever you possibly can to deny it and try to twist the statement. However, you are wasting your time. Any person who has taken your standard ELA course knows how comparatives work. Heck, elementary school should of taught you this. "You're dumb. You're dumber. You're dumbest." Not like it matters, everything Black Zetsu says pretty much is bullshit and that is shown time and time again. So how about you come at me with some real evidence?

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    • @Loneninja

      I already sent you the link to Databook 3, take a relook. the shield is inherently invincible based on the mechanics for it's defense. it reflects any attack? how is that hard to understand?

      Um no, ignoring context much? Itachi was trying to protect sasuke more than himself throughout that entire fight. I said it before and I will say it again, you look too much at what the outcome was instead of the actual decision making process and that is because you are being closed minded. It's not my fault you don't understand that itachi took the most efficient action. Taking the most efficient action =/= the only viable action. you fail to take into account there is a fast giant snake coming to swallow them alive, and I already proved that partner method is the fastest and most failproof method to break someone out of genjutsu, and itachi optimized it by getting himself out too. like I said, genin shikamaru broke that genjutsu despite it being amped by senjutsu chakra.

      Lol no, i am fully aware of what comparatives are. The problem is you don't seem to understand that Japanese to English isn't always some complete 1-1 translation. Did you read the original Japanese to understand what the writer truly intended and iron out the subtle changes in word choice? Your goal is to find evidence that discredits itachi or black zetsu, which is the issue, as opposed to looking at the manga as a whole and the individual contexts and then drawing a conclusion. Does the translation you have properly capture the context of the chapter? does it make sense with what we know from the other characters have said before?This is what is called having an open mind. If I say naruto is weaker than kaguya, does that mean Kaguya is weak? not inherently. If i say itachi is shorter than kakashi does that mean kakashi is short? not inherently. Comparatives compare two objects relative to the other, that is all. The word choice dense does imply that itachi is dense, except that doesn't make sense with what black zetsu has said before. Furthermore just because a someone is wrong about one thing or a few things or says bullshit about one thing, doesn't mean he is suddenly lacks credibility about everything else. Let me guess, Black Zetsu wasn't there at the valley of the end watching hashirama and madara and that memory he showed was just him spewing bs? yeah, no. that is just a faulty assumption. No character in this manga or even in real life is right about everything 24/7, but experts in the field are always given the proper credibility points. No character is necessarily all knowing, not even Black Zetsu, but the difference is when the author comes out and actually gives the supporting explanation in the databook.


      Lol, when I state a win condition, its clear I believe that Itachi can achieve it. It doesn't matter that kisame knows he must avoid eye contact. Obito knew he had to avoid FTG level 2 from minato and look what happened, he had the knowledge but he couldn't do jack with it because minato was superior , faster, and controlled the pace of the clash.

      Just the same Itachi can trick kisame into looking into his eyes in a number of ways. Itachi points at him for the finger genjutsu, then while kisame breaks that itachi can move into kisame's line of sight and nail him with eye contact. the sharingan can track kisame's gaze. Itachi can spawn and move a shadow clone into the right place and catch kisame slipping and catch him with eye contact for the tsykuyomi.

      The water dome starts with a shockwave of water first which could be neutralized by the yata mirror in a number of ways. even if the dome resolves, kisame maybe faster under water but it doesn't matter because once he comes in close he is getting one shotted by totsuka blade one way or another.


      lol what? kaguya was literally a mindless beast during her battle with her sons. Sorry, but that it is not quality combat experience in the slightest. Hagoromo and hamura maybe gods but they aren't shinobi. Itachi and the other shinobi down the line actually engaged in quality combat experience. Naruto even says she fell for henge because she isn't familiar with how shinobi actually pioneered the use of ninjutsu into actual strategic combat over the thousand year period that kaguya was sealed away. so no she is very inexperienced. She still made mistakes even with her byakugan active so I don't see what this proves. kaguya is literally 0-2 in combat. The only people she has defeated were regular humans during her time and she was a goddess among men and women. she isn't horrible and her strength and speed more than compensates for this weakness but against someone who can ignore a lot of her big moves her weakness in experience becomes exploitable. ITachi was literally anbu black ops captain at age 13, he has tons more experience than kaguya, period, plus he is an actual genius, while kaguya has an average intellect. black zetsu was the brains.

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    • 1) Does it state that his Susanoo is invincible? Invincible means cannot be defeated or overcome. Yet, Kirin already proved that Susanoo can be destroyed even while equipped with those items and causing damage to Itachi. Therefore, his statement was debunked before it was even stated.

      2) And? Kabuto was after Sasuke. Itachi was just in the way and immortal. It goes both ways. Kabuto couldn't kill Itachi because Itachi was already dead. He had to immobilize him and undo his reanimation with sealing or something else. Also, regaining control might be a possible. The point is, you can say Itachi was inhibited all you want, but he had endless reserves and was at full capability. Make him alive and without Sasuke, Kabuto wouldn't have much trouble blinding him with his light and using sound Genjutsu to easily trap him at his own game. Then kill him while he can't break free since he doesn't have Sasuke's Sharingan to break him free from Kabuto's Genjutsu. What is Itachi going to do? Totsuka Blade? Distraction? Those are your usual counter arguments. Totsuka blade still isn't as fast as perfect sage Kabuto. Distractions didn't work before. Nothing is going to stop him from doing what he did before.

      3) So you admit Black Zetsu called Itachi dense. Him calling Itachi dumb does not conflict with anything he has said before, therefore debunked. If Black Zetsu is right about Itachi being invincible, then he is right about him being dumb. Like I said, you can't nit pick when it only serves you. You don't get to use one statement from a character and claim he's credible then disregard every other. You say translation error? I say prove it. As far as I'm aware, Viz is legit. It literally owns rights to Naruto and that's all I need. That's only one of many arguments how the statement fails. Any Space-Time bypasses it, therefore fails. Black Zetsu is literally more wrong than right, therefore fails (credibility is very important. If someone is a liar and spouts nonsense consistently why would you believe anything especially exaggerated wrong claims like Itachi is invincible when Obito literally can phase into Susanoo thus proving it isn't or Kirin smacking it down and damaging Itachi).

      4) But why would Kisame give him the chance? I believe Kisame would take Itachi as serious as he did Bee. He would use the Great Colliding Wave, it will undoubtedly become a sphere (Yata blocks attacks, doesn't negate jutsu). Itachi will be in it's confines and Kisame would have the likelihood of coming on top since everything about Itachi being in water is bad. Drowning, slowed, etc. There is nothing stopping Kisame from bashing Itachi inside the dome.

      5) Mindless in her fight with her sons? Proof? If you fought ants your entire life you will lack in experience compared to one who has fought gods. Fighting Sixth Paths Naruto alone would be experience incomparable to anything that Itachi has. The harder something is, the more experience earned. Kaguya might be 0-2, but that's only against god tier. As far as I am aware she's 2-0 when it comes to trapping mortals in IT. Black Zetsu is a part of Kaguya. Heck in truth, he's just Will Materialisation, a Ninjutsu created by Kaguya. Also wasn't it explicitly stated to give all his experience to Kaguya? Event Recording. Either way, Black Zetsu is just a Ninjutsu created by Kaguya and stated to be a tool of hers. So his knowledge belongs to her either way. Although I've stated many ways she can kill Itachi, that was if Itachi could get passed her first move. She can literally do what she's always done. Infinite Tsukuyomi and there's nothing Itachi can do to stop her. Since IT has always been her M.O., you can't say she won't use it. She can use it with ease by just flying into the sky and looking upon the moon.

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    • 1)yes it does. It reflects any attack, lol. That sounds like invincibilty to me. The mirror is literally a truth seeking orb. it has every single nature transformation, it doesn't have a physical form. It doesn't stop kaguya's dimension switching, but those aren't attacks. It would stop any physical attack, presumably anything with kinetic energy, anything with tactile force for sure. There is no reason why it can't. If kaguya opens a dimensional rift inside his susano'o, the shield can still perceive attacks that come out of it and apply any one of those nature transformations. It changes any of it's properties and doesn't have a physical form to begin with, it's ethereal.. It's clear that shield is a magical shield and has some level of sentience otherwise it can't alter it's attributes in accordance with the attack. Except the weakness is that itachi can seemingly only use the yata mirror with complete body susano'o and up. His rib cage and his skeletal susano'o never appear wielding it. There is no proof that itachi managed to get that far in his susano'o development in time. For all we know itachi only had time to manifest the skeletal susano'o by the time kirin hit the ground, which would explain why his susano'o was destroyed and why he lost his robe.

      2) This one is a big yikes honestly. How many times did you see itachi cutting kabuto's horn off? how is it so hard to see that if he can tag him with sasuke's sword, he can tag him with the totsuka blade, it's honestly that simple. the author literally showed you itachi tagging kabuto and you still downplay, smh. If itachi was bloodlusted, the totsuka blade would have been in kabuto's skull. Itachi literally stated he hated kabuto but itachi cared about the alliance, he cared about stopping the edo tensei, and he also apparently wanted to give kabuto a chance at redemption. Itachi wasn't going for the kill, that is enough proof for me. he was setting up izanami which requires him to create a loop, this is all in the manga, for the purpose of eventually trapping kabuto in tsykuyomi so the edo tensei can be undone. ITachi already defeated kabuto on chapter 580 pg 12 as far as I am concerned. he tagged him with sasuke's sword, he can tag him with totsuka period. ITachi was still able to maintain susano'o despite the the light and sound he stopped kabuto from capturing sasuke. Like I said, itachi can break tayuya's genjutsu by himself. Partner method is the strongest method to break genjutsu, and Itachi would be a fool not to use it if it's an option, so that is easily debunked. You don't know that he couldn't break it by himself if push came to shove. Why? because he didn't even TRY to break it himself, because that would be a waste of time when he has an 100 percent break out of jail free card with sasuke's sharingan avialable, and the same goes for sasuke. In order to break a high level genjutsu without partner method, you literally have to build up a huge amount of chakra and play a battle of strength against the genjutsu caster, their obviously wasn't time for that with a giant snake coming to swallow him alive.

      3) Like I said, it's an interpretation thing. Black Zetsu could be calling itachi dense there or more logically he is simply saying sasuke is not as smart as itachi, but whatever floats your boat. Databook 3 still makes this irrelevant.

      4) Kisame wouldn't have a choice lol. Itachi is smarter than he is, he was portrayed to be the alpha male of the duo. Every akatsuki duo has an alpha male/female. In deidara and sasori, it was sasori; kakazu and hidan, it was kakazu;konan and pain, it was pain. Itachi is above kisame. when they went to konoha, itachi was calling the shots and kisame answered to itachi. Also, yamato said kisame was strong enough to be paired with itachi, not the other way around. That's portrayal. Feats, Itachi takes it handily. ITachi and kisame both have intimate knowledge on each other, but itachi has the perfect answer to kisame's ninjutsu absorption through genjutsu and the totsuka blade. The match starts, and Itachi would immediately start by throwing his shurikens.

      Itachi has faster hand seals than kisame, because kakashi could easily track kisame's hand seals while he couldn't see itachi at all. So itachi has better initiative when casting techniques. So he throws his flaming shurikens, kisame blocks with samehada, and in that instant, itachi points at kisame and puts him in the finger genjutsu. Kisame is skilled enough to detect it and try to break it, but he will still be caught off guard because he is focusing on avoiding itachi's eyes, not his fingers. While kisame is breaking the genjutsu, again, itachi's super fast hand seal allows him to make a karasu bunshin, and as kisame breaks it the karasu bunshin is already approaching him. the bunshin turns into crows and disorients kisame, and when kisame regains his bearings the real itachi successfully makes it into kisame's line of sight and nails him with tsykuyomi. Even if kisame immediately opens with the dome, itachi can simply open with his finger genjutsu and do the same thing. Finger genjutsu leads to bunshin feint leads to tsykuyomi. Again, itachi is faster than kisame in pretty much every way, especially hand seal speed, so kisame has no way of stopping itachi from taking control of the pace of the fight. totsuka blade is not even needed.

      The proof is easy. Kaguya is the ten tails, and we have seen during the war arc the ten tails is just a mass of power and relies on instinct to fight. it's a feral beast. She may have the experience from fighting hagoromo and hamura, but again, just because they are god tiers doesn't mean they have the skills shinobi have. They are just stat beasts. Itachi hasn't fought ants, he fought people who had less power than gods, which still matters because you gain more experience facing people who are forced to develop actual skill. Kaguya had no challengers when she was alive outside of hagormo and hamura, who again weren't seasoned shinobi. I would agree with you if Kaguya didn't very clearly get stunned by a henge jutsu, and naruto explaining why she got stunned by it. That proves she didn't get any of black zestu's experience. she doesn't know what skilled combatants are capable of. Sure, she has gained lots of experience from fighting Team 7, but that is still only one battle. Naruto, sasuke, and Kaguya all had comparable stats, sasuke being slightly weaker than both of the other two. Itachi has been fighting high level ninjas all his life, people stronger than him too, and I know that because quickly became an anbu captain at an abnormally young age. We saw how being in the anbu allowed kakashi to become one of the most experienced shinobi konoha has to offer. The same happened for itachi. Itachi is a prodigy and a 1v1 specialist, I don't think Kaguya has caught up after only one high level battle, especially since she isn't particularly a genius and made some clear rookie mistakes in her fight.

      Yata mirror should be able to block the light from Infinite tsykyuyomi in my opinion if that constitutes as an "attack". we have a precedent for that from Sasuke's Susano'o doing so.

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    • 1) No proof it can maneuver on it's own, therefore debunked. That is mere speculation. It wouldn't even need to be held if that were the case. Changing your attribute and property doesn't mean you can float wherever you want. If the attack doesn't make contact, it can't be blocked by it.

      2) Debunked cause Izanami feats are irrelevant. The author literally showed you multiple times Kabuto trapping Itachi and Sasuke, or hurting him and you downplay him. So irrelevant. Kabuto wasn't going for the kill either. He was after Sasuke. That's enough for me.

      3) How does the databook make it irrelevant?

      4) I'm pretty sure he has a choice. All it takes is a single hand sign. He can perform that with ease as Itachi grabs his Shuriken and tosses them and makes his hand sign. And if they are in the sphere Itachi could try all he wants. Samehada absorbs Chakra. Why couldn't it absorbs the Genjutsu Chakra from Kisame? It's already stated to absorb Chakra from him already.

      And. Jiraiya debunks you cause he loses his cool over the Harem technique all the time. Kakashi debunked you cause he was also clearly surprised. All naruto states is that Kaguya never seen a jutsu like that before. That doesn't mean she doesn't have any experience. So debunked.

      Finally, Yata mirror can only block what makes contact with it. I don't think Ocular Genjutsu fits that. As far as I'm aware those are instant. They aren't physical or spiritual attacks that are fired from the user to the target. Instead they have a condition and once that condition is met, the target is in the Genjutsu.

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    • I'm pretty sure that Yata Mirror vs TSB is overrated. It was stated time and time again that only senjutsu does works against TSB. And guess what? Yata Mirror doesn't have senjutsu infused in it since Itachi wasn't a Sage, therefore instantly destroyed.

      I guess TSB also has a spiritual aspect since Minato's arms which were destroyed by TSB doesn't even regenerate when he was released from Edo Tensei and returned his soul form so we can even infer that his soul was damaged from that. Since there is no counter argument against that, it must be the truth, right?

      While there is no comparison towards Yata Mirror, Kaguya's fist attacks, Eighty Gods Vacuum Attack, destroyed a Six Paths Chakra Complete Body — Susanoo easily and Kaguya teleported so fast that Six Paths Senjutsu Naruto and Rinnegan Sasuke couldn't even react before she incapacitated them. She can very well do same to Itachi before he could react with Mirror and obliterate him from his back.

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    • @loneninja just because you say debunked dose not mean you have debunked anything you should explain how something is debunked before saying something is debunked. also you can be wrong so don't assume everything you say is right.

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    • The Yata Mirror changes all of its properties to reflect an attack. It never said it couldn't do that to TSB, and you have to legitimately prove that it can't since you made the claim that it can't. Whoever makes the claims needs to bring the proof.

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    • @Itachi

      1) Don't comment on what I'm doing unless you understand what I'm doing. Read the feed, if you can't put two together, then oh well. Combat's arguments always rely on "I accept your concession" or "debunked" when no one concedes or when nothing has been debunked. So I'm over using it to prove a point.

      2) I'm pretty sure I explained when something was debunked.

      "No proof it can maneuver on it's own, therefore debunked. " Abilities not shown or stated are completely made up by the person presenting them. Therefore, they are false.

      "Debunked cause Izanami feats are irrelevant." A speed feat that happens in a Genjutsu is irrelevent to the user's actual speed.

      "Jiraiya debunks you cause he loses his cool over the Harem technique all the time. Kakashi debunked you cause he was also clearly surprised. All naruto states is that Kaguya never seen a jutsu like that before. That doesn't mean she doesn't have any experience. So debunked." He stated being suprised by a Harem Technique shows that Kaguya lacked experience. He even stated that Naruto stated she lacked it. So if I have to explain why these debunk his statements, maybe you should head back to school, cause I made these as simple as possible.

      So how about you get off my back. This is already the second thread you came at me randomly. You're already showing that your opinion is merely based off of discontent with my presence.

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    • 1) Lol no, there is proof. You simply ignore it. Chapter 393 pg 8. We clear as day see the yata mirror expanding it's size to deflect the paper bomb explosions. On the panel before and after we can clearly see the yata mirror wasn't covering susano'o head, but now it is fully protecting susano'o head and even expanded to cover the side of susano'o as well, despite only covering the front of the susano'o previously. That's the whole reason why White Zetsu says the SHIELD is deflecting the attack. Databook 3 still accepts your concession. The shield can obviously perceive danger to itachi and change in anyway it needs to protect him and his susano'o.


      2) LMAO, no this is flat out wrong. How many times do you see itachi deactivating his susano'o in that fight despite being an edo tensei. He obviously isn't going all out because Izanami and the fact he can't kill kabuto is a bigger restriction. Itachi literally didn't bust out his final susano'o form and you claim that kabuto legitimately harmed itachi? give me a break. Itachi was holding back the whole fight and he still stomped kabuto. Kabuto caught him off guard twice in ways that would never have happened if itachi was going all out, so that's why it's debunked. If Itachi was serious, he would have used his bijuu dama sized yakaska matagama and not those baby matagama he threw at kabuto, boxed kabuto in, and then instead of sasuke's arrow, totsuka blade nails kabuto in the skull. he can throw in his clone feint in there too just to make sure kabuto doesn't see the blade coming.

      You missed the point of the diversion as well, the point of the diversion was to immobilize him on the ceiling. after that, kabuto refocused on both itachi and sasuke and went for their weapon. Itachi's clone feint had nothing to do with the matagama and the arrow, and there is no reason both SASUKE AND KABUTO wouldn't have seen him do it. The proof that kabuto didn't sense it despite top tier sage mode sensing is that he legitimately thought he stabbed the real itachi. itachi is just fast and a genius at that clone feint he does.

      I accept your concession that itachi tagged kabuto with a regular sword multiple times therefore if he was allowed to use totsuka blade he won the fight.

      3)Because, you have gone out of your way to discredit Black Zetsu on technicalities when in reality his statement is backed up by the databook, which gives the explanation for why it's invincible.

      4) Kisame was caught in kurenai's genjutsu. He broke it, but there is no evidence that samehada can instantly reverse the effects of genjutsu at itachi's level. In theory, samehada can release kisame from genjutsu using partner method at the very least, so you aren't wrong, but that's only if it can detect when kisame is genjutsu. Either way, Itachi expects his initial/basic genjutsu to be broken, what he is going for is tsykuyomi in any case, which is something samehada cannot reverse the effects of in time. kakashi implied itachi's tsykuyomi can outright kill, and even if it doesn't all itachi has to do is decapitate kisame right after he nails him with it so samehada can't heal kisame back to full health in time, or simply use totsuka.

      Itachi literally had time to cast 2 techniques and sheath shuriken against kakashi and kakashi literally couldn't track it at all, all he knew for sure was that itachi casted some seals due to the sharingan. that same kakashi can easily copy kisame's seals as kisame weaves them without issue. That is enough proof for me itachi stomps kisame in jutsu speed department and in speed in general. Furthermore, Itachi's ephermeal only requires him to point at his target. Furthermore, Kisame still has to stand there and pour water out of his mouth, that still gives itachi initiative. So kisame casts his hand seal? great, now he is getting tagged by shuriken and being trapped in itachi's finger genjutsu. if kisame wants to make his next move, he has to be aware of the genjutsu and then break it. Kisame can do it, but that gives the faster itachi more than enough time to do his standard bunshin feint and guarantee that he establishes eye contact with kisame. This fight ends before it begins. Itachi knows too much about kisame's big moves to let kisame get into his flow. Then there is even Demonic Illusion: Mirage crow: This genjutsu traps a victim in a powerful illusion, with no necessary eye contact; similar to Ephemeral, however, direct eye contact can still be applied when using this technique. When used, the genjutsu projects a torrent of crows, leaving the opponent at the user's mercy.

      Itachi can choose any one of those genjutsu as part of his opening feint. Kisame can't block shuriken, cast his water technique , stand there barfing out water, and break the genjutsu all at the same time, he is gonna get disrupted and gonna get caught in tsykuyomi. the water dome would resolve during this but kisame wouldn't be able to initiate a proper counter attack. What's worse is that itachi's techniques that I have listed here only require one handsign, which he weaves faster than kisame can, and in the case of genjutsu, genjutsu affects the target instantly.

      Sasuke and itachi were in a heated shuriken clash and itachi still had time to weave a sign that sasuke couldn't track.

      Adding in totsuka blade is spite.


      5) lmao no. There is a big difference between a gag feat and a feat achieved in a serious fight. kakashi was just surprised naruto had the guts to use that when the fate of the world was on the line. Sakura was also surprised that it worked, and even sasuke said that technique is not something he expected to work, but it worked lmao. Kaguya literally almost got sealed away because of that so no, she is inexperienced. There is a reason why naruto never bothered using that technique against Madara, ever, because he knew madara was too experienced for that. That wasn't even the only tactical error she made in that fight, black zetsu had to hold her hand through basic decisions, like using common sense to separate naruto and sasuke. if one of them is trapped in another dimension she literally can't lose and yet she didn't think of that on her own. She is very obviously inexperienced. If she was as experienced as you claimed, there is no reason why she can't make a solid decision on which dimension to switch to in the final clash, and even forgets where sakura was and gets tagged by her despite being a gillion times faster than sakura and having near 360 degree vision. All she had to do was fly backward and not upward and then make her next move. She was also worried about sasuke's amaterasu, but that wasn't important. The ice immediately freezes her targets and then she can use her vacuum palms to blow them to pieces. naruto and sasuke may escape via amaterasu again via support from DMS kakashi, but at least she doesn't get sealed away, and she can easily then switch to the acid dimension after that and try a new tactic.

      6) There is a problem with timing. Kaguya flies up to the moon, then HUGE TOMOE appear before she casts it. and there was still a delay before the technique goes off. Anyone can tell something big is going off. Itachi isn't restricted by plot nor does he have a reason to hold back against this opponent in this particular fight, so he is elevating to his yata mirror. He should have enough time to get to complete body susano'o for that. The light won't be penetrating through yata and instead would reflect off of it, and because yata changes it's properties, it should become a 360 sphere to block the light out. light is still energy and has a radiation pressure, plus it's clear the yata mirror is sentient because it doesn't randomly change it's attributes to regular stuff like air molecules hitting susano'o, it clearly changed it's attributes once it sensed an actual attack, something that could in theory harm itachi (kunai paper bombs).

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    • Pretty positive that Itachi disagreed with Black Zetsu the moment he stated he needed Bee and Naruto for good ol Chibaku. No one in Naruto is invincible, Uchiha Itachi stated that in 144.

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    • Wrong rank. The correct one is:

      1) Obito & Zetsu

      2) Itachi & Kisame

      3) Nagato & Konan

      4) Sasori & Deidara

      5) Hidan & Kakuzu

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    • wow some people take things far to seriously? Not talking to you LoneNinja.

      as for itachi being invincible. thats a misunderstanding Black Zetsu never actually said that itachi is invincible. he said with the yata mirror and sword of tatsuka that Itachi's SUSANOO is practically invincible. keyword HIS SUSANOO not him, but simply his Susanoo. which is not saying much as practically is defined as :virtually, almost

      meaning he wasn't actually saying that itachi's susanoo is invincible he was saying it was ALMOST.

      as for the Yata Mirror vs Truth seeking balls. you have to be absolutely delusional to believe the Yata Mirror would beat the truth seeking balls. what makes the Yata Mirror powerful is the fact that it is bound with the nature transformations. its been stated that Yata Mirror can change its characteristics to any nature transformation to completely negate any attack, whether it be spiritual, or physical.but the thing is, that people who believe that Yata Mirror could counter the Truth Seeking balls simply because that are overhypying the shield. the fact the shield has to change its characteristics to nagate attacks means that in its passive form its not actually bound with the elements, it has to change into them means it is at a disadvantage against the TSBs the fact is that the TSBs Do not have to do any such change, they are bound with all the elements in its passive mode. and the truth seeking balls are not limited to 1 shape IE a shield, they can be changed to any shape

      when it comes to similar techniques the one with more utility has the advantage. on top of that while the shield possibly has yin yang release it couldn't do what the truth seeking balls can do IE erase a jutsu, simply because one must be a master in yin yang release to do so.

      if the TSB and the Yata Mirror were to collide at a worst case scenario the two jutsu would cancel eachother out since they both are counter jutsu. but logically speaking the truth seeking balls would cancel out the Yata Mirror because, the Yata Mirror has no real feats we have never seen them cancel out high tier ninjutsu and the truth seeking balls are specifically stated to be superior to both kekkei genkai and kekkei tota.

      not to mention. no matter what anyone says, the Yata Mirror is made from chakra. and before anyone says"but its an ethereal shield not chakra" it still is bound with the nature transformations IE CHAKRA.

      in the end, those who believe the itachi hype are simply dk riding him and not listening to reason.

      on a side note, its stated that each element has its own weakness, wind is weak to fire, fire is weak to water and so on. but in some cases its possible for one element to overcome its counter element. an example would be that fire enhanced by wind can easily overpower water, or in even rare cases a super strong wind can in fact overpower a fire, if it has enough force behind itself. so than the question is. what would happen if a powerful shinobi who had mastery over multiple elements were to blast the yata mirror with a combination jutsu. that mixes say fire and wind into 1 small stream? could it take on the properties of both elements and match the attack? or would it fail to take on the exact required properties to resist the combo element? the fact is that most likely it can't take on the properties of a combo element

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    • one question I have is does every one agree that the top three teams are

      Obito & Zetsu

      Itachi & Kisame

      Nagato & Konan

      not in this order but these are the three top teams

      also @Actionmanrandell 1.)the Yata Mirror can tank a big hit. 2 I don't think any one is saying that the yata mirror can tank a truth seeking orb (and if you are your stipid I'm the biggest itachi-tard and even I know that he he's not that strong.) so chill we can tell you are not a fan of itachi or his fanbase but don't go grouping us all together.

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    • Itachisempi wrote: one question I have is does every one agree that the top three teams are

      Obito & Zetsu

      Itachi & Kisame

      Nagato & Konan

      not in this order but these are the three top teams

      then, what's your order?

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    • @cv83 that is my order IF obito has the Rinnegan. if not I'm gonna have to say its itachi and kisame first, because itachi and nagato already fought and itachi won that and kisame is much stronger that. then nagato and konan and then obito and zetsu. I don't have a great reason for putting nagato above obito. but if obito has a Rinnegan obito one shots nagato and konan and mid difficulty can take out itachi and kisame.

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    • Itachisempi wrote: but if obito has a Rinnegan obito one shots nagato and konan and mid difficulty can take out itachi and kisame.

      lol

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    • Itachisempi wrote: one question I have is does every one agree that the top three teams are

      Obito & Zetsu

      Itachi & Kisame

      Nagato & Konan

      not in this order but these are the three top teams

      also @Actionmanrandell 1.)the Yata Mirror can tank a big hit. 2 I don't think any one is saying that the yata mirror can tank a truth seeking orb (and if you are your stipid I'm the biggest itachi-tard and even I know that he he's not that strong.) so chill we can tell you are not a fan of itachi or his fanbase but don't go grouping us all together.

      read the above comments again one commentor specifically stated that yata mirror trumps the TSBs also who in sams hell said i wasn't an itachi fan?

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    • Based on this wiki (WHICH WE ARE ARGUING ON!), Yata Mirror negates any attack of any kind whether it be spiritual or physical. As long it has chakra, it will not hit. And if it is close-combat, it still won't hit.

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    • @Actionmanrandell.

      I could care less if you see it as "dik riding", as far as I am concerned you are biased based on everything you just typed. why won't you listen to reason? The yata mirror deflects the truth seeking orb, it's the writer's word, period. Is the truth seeking orb projectile an attack meant to do damage or harm to itachi and his susano'o? yes. So it gets deflected. The Yata mirror is literally made of the same thing a truth seeking orb is, but better because unlike a regular truth seeking orb, it perfectly changes it's properties in accordance with the attack. It doesn't matter how fast the attack is or where it comes from or how powerful, itachi and his susano'o will be protected. You can see it clear as day in the manga. Chapter 393 pg 8, yata mirror changes in size to protect susano'o from paper bombs. Chapter 392 pg 10, yata mirror clearly expanding in size and deflecting the snakes.

      That said, the Yata mirror isn't an offensive technique, it's purely defensive. It does what it needs to do to protect itachi and his susano'o but that's all. It didn't vaporize the snakes, it simply walled/deflected them upward and backward such that they couldn't get through to his susano'o, it's itachi's job to do the offensive measures. Same thing with sasuke, it simply deflected sasuke's sword and made sure it didn't get through. As such, the yata mirror wouldn't stop kaguya's dimensional shifting and stuff but she won't be able to lay a finger on him, and nothing in the environment is harming his susano'o with yata up. And those claiming itachi needed help to break chibaku tensei clearly have a distorted view of the manga. The yata mirror is defensive, not offensive. It would stop chibaku tensei from harming itachi but it wouldn't advance his gamestate. He destroys the core because that's common sense, and nothing says all 3 attacks were absolutely necessary, and he used it as a smokescreen to blitz the living hell out of Nagato with ease. It doesn't matter that the yata mirror is passive, it's a shield.

      You even twisted black zetsu's words. He said he is invincible with Yata and totsuka, period. Next you will behave like Loneninja and claim Zetsu isn't a credible source when 1) he has seen all of shinobi history 2) he is an information specialist 3) orochimaru was also searching for those weapons 4) he is the will of Kaguya. 5) Black zetsu's only purpose that entire fight was to be the commentator for the audience, so there is no bias in his statements. 6)Black Zetsu isn't omniscient, but his statement is supported by the databook which didn't just give baseless hyperbole, it gave a stated MECHANIC for why it's invincible, because it isn't a static shield, it's extremely malleable and doesn't have a physical form to begin with. It can change any of properties, nothing says it only adjusts an element. 7) it doesn't need to have feats, it worked as stated in the manga and itachi was restricted by plot in the scenarios he could have used it.

      That said, the Yata mirrors only weakness in itachi's hands is that he needs complete body susano'o to wield it, plus he can't maintain it forever. the invincibility only last sufficient he can maintain susano'o.

      But anyways,You don't listen to the author's word just because you don't want a fictional character to be that powerful, what kind of logic is that?

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    • CombatIQmatters wrote:

      That said, the Yata mirrors only weakness in itachi's hands is that he needs complete body susano'o to wield it, plus he can't maintain it forever. the invincibility only last sufficient he can maintain susano'o.

      Cause it's not like Itachi can't wield the items himself or anything and doesn't waste them on his Susano'o and he needs armor susano'o to wield it even though he can barely maintain it with his Chakra (sarcasm)? Zetsu said Itachi is invincible, not the Mirror. Itachi stated everyone has a weakness which includes him even with Yata and Totsuka. So who is right Itachi or Zetsu? Since we're arguing over Itachi, it's obviously Itachi. Then Itachi isn't invincible which came from himself. Besides, Itachi pretty much disproved Zetsu's comment the moment he needed Naruto and Bee for Chibaku.

      Side Note, are you guys stating that the shield protects against internal attacks too? What proof?

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    • Zetsu said that Itachi using Susanoo with YM and SoT was virtually invincible. He didn't say Itachi alone was invincible. Itachi said that nobody is invincible and that every technique has at least 1 weakness, and as shown he specialises in finding the weaknesses, and perfectly exploiting them. He simply did not have the destructive power alone to destroy the TB and maybe if this was Dragon Ball Z that would be the end of discussion, but this is not Dragon Ball Z and less destructive people have won over more destructive people multiple times.

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    • @JamesSenpai

      I highly suggest you reread my post in it's entirety because you clearly missed several key points.

      Like I said, Itachi was stated to be invincible when he was wielding both yata mirror and totuska blade, it's that simple. Get the proper translation or something cause clearly you didn't read what Black Zetsu said. Can Itachi wield those weapons forever? does he start off his fight in his susano'o? Can he immediately form his complete body susano'o? The answer to those questions are no, no, and no. Itachi also has shit stamina in part 2 because of the terminal illness, and he wasn't top tier in the stamina to begin with, he is on kakashi's level of stamina.

      That is itachi's weakness, nothing more, nothing less. He is highly intelligent, fast, and a top tier shinobi, so no amount of DBZ logic or distaste for a fictional character will change it.

      Nothing says the shield can't protect from internal attacks. Did you see the shield protecting orochimaru from the totsuka blade? No. The yata mirror clearly protects itachi and only itachi. The mirror was clearly shown changing in size to adapt to orochimaru's and sasuke's attacks. It's an etheral shield and can change any of it's properties, and it's clearly sentient, nothing says it can't stretch inside itachi's susano'o and protect him from attacks. The burden of proof is on you to claim that it can't, as the shield clearly protects both itachi and his susano'o from all attacks. Kishimoto>you.

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    • CombatIQmatters wrote: I highly suggest you reread my post in it's entirety because you clearly missed several key points.

      I could care less about your key points. The only point needed is Itachis. You can't be invincible if you have any weakness whatsoever. Itachi said everyone does. So quit wanking with your hyperbole.

      CombatIQmatters wrote: Like I said, Itachi was stated to be invincible when he was wielding both yata mirror and totuska blade, it's that simple. Get the proper translation or something cause clearly you didn't read what Black Zetsu said. Can Itachi wield those weapons forever? does he start off his fight in his susano'o? Can he immediately form his complete body susano'o? The answer to those questions are no, no, and no.

      Im fine. I know perfectly well what Zetsu says. "So combined with the Totsuka Blade... ...He's invincible...!" Nothing about Susano'o. So get off your high horse. K? K. Can Itachi wield those weapons forever? Yes without Susano'o and if he wields them, duh. Why would Itachi even waste Chakra on Susano'o when he has the Yata that supposedly is an automatic defense? Why did he need Naruto and Bee for good ol Chibaku? Why didn't he use it that to protect Sasuke? Get out your own world and smell the roses. No one is invincible, came directly from Itachi and that's all she wrote.

      CombatIQmatters wrote: That is itachi's weakness, nothing more, nothing less. He is highly intelligent, fast, and a top tier shinobi, so no amount of DBZ logic or distaste for a fictional character will change it.

      The only dragon ball logic here is people thinking someone is invincible when they say differently. Someone cannot be Invincible if they have a weakness. That's ignorant.

      CombatIQmatters wrote: Nothing says the shield can't protect from internal attacks. Did you see the shield protecting orochimaru from the totsuka blade? No. The yata mirror clearly protects itachi and only itachi. The mirror was clearly shown changing in size to adapt to orochimaru's and sasuke's attacks. It's an etheral shield and can change any of it's properties, and it's clearly sentient, nothing says it can't stretch inside itachi's susano'o and protect him from attacks. The burden of proof is on you to claim that it can't, as the shield clearly protects both itachi and his susano'o from all attacks. Kishimoto>you.

      What are you talking about? That's an ignorant rebuttal. It isn't stated that it can't so it does? Does Kishimoto say it can move on it's own accord? No. Does he show it can move on it's own accord? No. Does it show it can change it's properties to become different natures? Yes. Does it show it can grow and shrink? Sure. But moving without Susano'o and it's guidance? No. I and no one else has to prove a fan made power wrong when they haven't given proof. You made the claim. No one else.

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    • @JamesSenpai Wow lots of concessions in your post there, and I'll be addressing each one.

      1) Complete bias. I said in my own post that for certain, itachi's main weakness is his stamina, so I accept your concession. the invinicbility only lasts if he has the stamina to hold the blade and mirror up, use common sense. He has shit stamina and a terminal illness. That's what ignoring key points does, you can't even see when you are repeating the same things I've already said.

      2) I accept your concession here as well, because it's clear that he can only wield the yata mirror and totsuka blade with his complete body susano'o, he has never shown the ability to wield it without his susano'o. Why that's the case is a question for itachi and the writer. I also accept your concession again, because the invincibility is only in play with yata and totsuka blade up. And you don't know whether or not the yata mirror and totsuka blade have their own chakra costs to be wielded, so you just made a baseless assumption. The yata mirror is a SHIELD, what are you talking about? the shield would simply protect him from chibaku tensei, it doesn't advance his gamestate in any way. He used bee and naruto's firepower to destroy the core because he doesn't know how powerful it is, then he used it as a smokescreen to attack nagato, it's like you didn't even pay attention. You clearly didn't pay attention to the kabuto fight either. We see itachi regularly deactivating his susano'o seemingly because of the izanami prep time, so that's enough proof that he couldn't susano'o continously in that fight while preparing izanami. 3) I accept your concession, the author said he is invincible while wielding yata mirror and totsuka blade through black zetsu, then there is a stated mechanic for the mirror's defensive capability, and the totsuka blade is a one shot sword of sealing shown to be extradorinally fast. Nagato literally only needs a mental reaction to use preta path and shinra tensei, two techniques that can counter the blade as far as kabuto is concerned, and yet nagato couldn't react. Orochimaru couldn't react to the blade either. The weapons clearly are incredibly op by themselves, and especially in the hands of someone as smart as itachi.

      4) Completely and utterly biased. Databook 3 states that the shield turns back any attack whether spiritual or physical. So yes it does move on it's own if that's what necessary to reflect the attack, smh. It isn't a fan made power, you just refuse to acknowledge what was stated and shown about it's abilities. It was clearly shown expanding in size to deflect hydra snakes and to protect itachi from paper bombs in Chapter 393 pg 8 and Chapter 392 pg 10, so I accept your concession. You made the request for proof that it can reflect an attack that comes from inside, when it's already stated to reflect all attacks. Doesn't say it can't reflect attacks coming from inside his susano'o. So you have been debunked. You have to prove that it can't reflect a certain kind of attack, when the shield is stated to reflect all attacks, full stop. I don't know what databook you have been reading but it clearly says : "incorporeal shield of the "Sacred Treasures". Endowed with all "nature transformations," it can change its own characteristics depending on the characteristics of the attack it receives, making the technique ineffective." It changes it's characteristics, not just the elements, proven by the fact we clearly saw it change size in the manga in response to an attack it recieved. The proof that the shield doesn't just cover the front is that it clearly expanded to the side of the susano'o when an attack was thrown there, period. Nothing says that the shield can't adapt to an attack coming from inside. If you think it can't , that's on you, but you have no evidence to support that claim.

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    • CombatIQmatters wrote: @JamesSenpai Wow lots of concessions in your post there, and I'll be addressing each one.

      Que? What exactly did I admit is true? I haven't agreed with you except for it being able to grow and shrink, and change it's natures, and I haven't denied those which means I can't concede unless I agree to something I've denied? Unless you are conceding or one of those kids that use words without knowing what it means, I have no idea what you are on about.

      1) Complete bias. I said in my own post that for certain, itachi's main weakness is his stamina, so I accept your concession. the invinicbility only lasts if he has the stamina to hold the blade and mirror up, use common sense. He has shit stamina and a terminal illness. That's what ignoring key points does, you can't even see when you are repeating the same things I've already said.

      You make zero sense. Do you understand the English Language, you can't say someone is invincible but also say they have a weakness. You aren't invincible if you can lose. Come now, brain. I know you can do it. Use common sense.

      2) I accept your concession here as well, because it's clear that he can only wield the yata mirror and totsuka blade with his complete body susano'o, he has never shown the ability to wield it without his susano'o. Why that's the case is a question for itachi and the writer. I also accept your concession again, because the invincibility is only in play with yata and totsuka blade up. And you don't know whether or not the yata mirror and totsuka blade have their own chakra costs to be wielded, so you just made a baseless assumption. The yata mirror is a SHIELD, what are you talking about? the shield would simply protect him from chibaku tensei, it doesn't advance his gamestate in any way. He used bee and naruto's firepower to destroy the core because he doesn't know how powerful it is, then he used it as a smokescreen to attack nagato, it's like you didn't even pay attention. You clearly didn't pay attention to the kabuto fight either. We see itachi regularly deactivating his susano'o seemingly because of the izanami prep time, so that's enough proof that he couldn't susano'o continously in that fight while preparing izanami.

      Where is it said that it can only be wielded by a Susano'o? Isn't Totsuka and Yata ethereal (not Chakra) items, not Susano'o abilities? So outta here with that hyperbole made up goop. Where is it said that these Ethereal items cost Chakra as well? Do you make everything you say up, or do you actually follow the series and have any proof? That run down though on why he didn't use Yata with Bee and Naruto xD. Horrible explanation. He didn't use it because he didn't know how powerful it is? Gee, that makes so much sense (sarcasm). You said it blocks all attacks and protects him on it's own, so why does how powerful it is, matter? Why didn't it block Chibaku to begin with? I paid attention to Kabuto's fight just fine, thanks. Itachi could of formed the conditions with Susano'o just fine. He's a smart cookie and I know he can mind fuck Kabuto. He could also wield the mirror without Susano'o because it is an ethereal item. Just in case you didn't know kiddo, ethereal doesn't mean Chakra which the Susano'o is made of.

      I accept your concession, the author said he is invincible while wielding yata mirror and totsuka blade through black zetsu, then there is a stated mechanic for the mirror's defensive capability, and the totsuka blade is a one shot sword of sealing shown to be extradorinally fast. Nagato literally only needs a mental reaction to use preta path and shinra tensei, two techniques that can counter the blade as far as kabuto is concerned, and yet nagato couldn't react. Orochimaru couldn't react to the blade either. The weapons clearly are incredibly op by themselves, and especially in the hands of someone as smart as itachi.

      The author also said Kirin can't be evaded through Zetsu, so what's your point? That was shown to be wrong. I remember Itachi avoiding Kirin by using Susano'o, which means he evaded it. Zetsu has lied and been wrong nonestop through the series. His wiki page is full of goopy claims he's made. Sorry if I don't take the word of someone who is more wrong than right. He is as credible as false persona Itachi and false persona Madara (Obito). You need to learn how to take something said with a grain of salt when it comes from someone who is consistently wrong or speaking out of his ass with goop. Shit, is Hiruzen the greatest Hokage too?

      4) Completely and utterly biased. Databook 3 states that the shield turns back any attack whether spiritual or physical. So yes it does move on it's own if that's what necessary to reflect the attack, smh. It isn't a fan made power, you just refuse to acknowledge what was stated and shown about it's abilities. It was clearly shown expanding in size to deflect hydra snakes and to protect itachi from paper bombs in Chapter 393 pg 8 and Chapter 392 pg 10, so I accept your concession. You made the request for proof that it can reflect an attack that comes from inside, when it's already stated to reflect all attacks. Doesn't say it can't reflect attacks coming from inside his susano'o. So you have been debunked. You have to prove that it can't reflect a certain kind of attack, when the shield is stated to reflect all attacks, full stop. I don't know what databook you have been reading but it clearly says : "incorporeal shield of the "Sacred Treasures". Endowed with all "nature transformations," it can change its own characteristics depending on the characteristics of the attack it receives, making the technique ineffective." It changes it's characteristics, not just the elements, proven by the fact we clearly saw it change size in the manga in response to an attack it recieved. The proof that the shield doesn't just cover the front is that it clearly expanded to the side of the susano'o when an attack was thrown there, period. Nothing says that the shield can't adapt to an attack coming from inside. If you think it can't , that's on you, but you have no evidence to support that claim.

      Nani??????? I'm biased because I don't believe Itachi is omnipotent like you? Well, if that's me being biased, I'll accept that proudly. As for Yata, that isn't proof it moves on it's own accord. Growing and changing it's properties isn't movement. Just because it can repel all attacks doesn't mean it moves on it's own either. That's just how you want it to be. I take it as it repels any attack it makes contact with and that's been shown where as your goop hasn't. Your evidence comes from a dude who is more wrong than right, and a Databook that states Amaterasu cannot be escaped by any jutsu -cough- Obito and 4th Rai -cough-. It also says that Chidori Kusangi can pierce through anything -cough- Yata???? Susano'o?????? -cough-. You need to learn the difference between hyperbole and facts.

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    • 1)the invincibility is only in play while he is wielding the yata mirror and totsuka blade as stated in the canon. Was Itachi invincible when he got bisected by kabuto? no. Was the yata mirror and totsuka blade up at that time? also no. So concession accepted.

      2) Here is how this works. You make a claim, you prove it. The author has only shown itachi wielding the yata mirror and totsuka blade with his complete body susano'o and up. Where is your proof that it can be wielded by him without it? Nonexistent, just as I thought. You made the claim that it doesn't have a chakra cost, you prove that. You brought up those points, not me. Where was it stated or shown that it does or doesn't have a chakra cost? nowhere. Your other point is debunked because we clearly see him deactivating his susano'o whenever he is specifically working on prepping the izanami.

      3) My explanation was just fine. The yata mirror is a shield. Did you see it vaporizing the snakes? did you see the shield attacking orochimaru, did you see the shield killing sasuke when he attacked itachi? no, it protects and/or deflects attacks, it doesn't actively do any offensive/destructive actions. He activates the yata mirror and he would be protected from chibaku tensei, but the mirror wouldn't destroy the core, it would simply stop the pull from affecting his susano'o and protect it from the rocks. naruto and bee's attacks aimed at nagato would still be disrupted by the gravitation, so the core needed to be destroyed. The Yata mirror would simply protect itachi, it doesn't do anything to stop the core from disrupting the terrain as a whole and attacks that are thrown toward nagato. Destroying it was common sense. After that, we clearly see itachi elevate to the his final susano'o form, and for all we know he used the yata mirror to protect himself and his allies from the explosion. You simply grasp at straws. Hiruzen is irrelevant because it was clearly explained the only reason he was considered a god was because people considered hashirama to be a fairytale. Kirin is also irrelevant because it was shown not to be unevadeable, while the yata mirror has not yet been debunked.

      4) Rofl, the shield was clearly seen moving on it's own accord when it changed in size, moved to cover the side of susano'o, etc etc, all in response to attacks. Even on Chapter 393 pg 6, you can clearly see the shield expanding in size upward. Then the sfx: whoosh, is defined to be "movement through the air" according to the sfx guides, so that clearly means the shield was returning back to it's normal size. So the shield is capable of movement, so concession accepted. If the shield only changes for attacks that make "contact with it", then why is it moving/expanding to protect the side of susano'o, when the shield originally only covers the front? Last I check, momentum is a property of an object. The mirror can change any of it's properties in accordance with an attack to render it ineffective, so it can change it's velocity, period. More grasping at straws, those other hyperbole were debunked because they were shown to be countered in the manga, while the yata mirror has not been debunked, and there is a stated mechanic for it's invincibility. No one is harming itachi as long as his stamina lasts and as long as the shield and blade are being wielded, as per canon. Kishimoto>you. when his stamina runs out, then sure he dies, but the condition for invincibility was terminated at that point.

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    • CombatIQmatters wrote: 1)the invincibility is only in play while he is wielding the yata mirror and totsuka blade as stated in the canon. Was Itachi invincible when he got bisected by kabuto? no. Was the yata mirror and totsuka blade up at that time? also no. So concession accepted.

      As if. You really that delusioned to think Naruto and Sasuke at this current time can't beat Itachi while his Susano'o is up? Sheesh. Someone's over reaching. How is Itachi invincible? Zetsu? His words mean shit. He's consistently wrong so he has no credibility. There isn't a concession until I agree. Have I agreed? Nope. So how about you learn English? K? K. You obviosuly have no clue what that word means cause you're using it wrong asf.

      CombatIQmatters wrote: Here is how this works. You make a claim, you prove it. The author has only shown itachi wielding the yata mirror and totsuka blade with his complete body susano'o and up. Where is your proof that it can be wielded by him without it? Nonexistent, just as I thought. You made the claim that it doesn't have a chakra cost, you prove that. You brought up those points, not me. Where was it stated or shown that it does or doesn't have a chakra cost? nowhere. Your other point is debunked because we clearly see him deactivating his susano'o whenever he is specifically working on prepping the izanami.

      When it comes to jutsu, sure. But when it comes to items? No. An item only costs chakra when it is stated to. Does throwing a Kunai cost Chakra? Does using a sword cost Chakra? Does throwing a shoe cost Chakra? Ethereal isn't Chakra, so get out with your hyperbole goop. Who are you to say an item costs Chakra with no proof? You have literally no proof. I have to disprove you when it's an item? Yea, not how it works buckaroo. You made the claim that these items cost Chakra. You said it cost Chakra, not me. I asked for proof and I haven't seen any. But what can I expect from a fan who can't see the difference between hyperbole and fact and values the word of a guy wrong none stop even in that fight? Him saying Kirin can't be evaded already shows his words mean shit.

      CombatIQmatters wrote: My explanation was just fine. The yata mirror is a shield. Did you see it vaporizing the snakes? did you see the shield attacking orochimaru, did you see the shield killing sasuke when he attacked itachi? no, it protects and/or deflects attacks, it doesn't actively do any offensive/destructive actions. He activates the yata mirror and he would be protected from chibaku tensei, but the mirror wouldn't destroy the core, it would simply stop the pull from affecting his susano'o and protect it from the rocks. naruto and bee's attacks aimed at nagato would still be disrupted by the gravitation, so the core needed to be destroyed. The Yata mirror would simply protect itachi, it doesn't do anything to stop the core from disrupting the terrain as a whole and attacks that are thrown toward nagato. Destroying it was common sense. After that, we clearly see itachi elevate to the his final susano'o form, and for all we know he used the yata mirror to protect himself and his allies from the explosion. You simply grasp at straws. Hiruzen is irrelevant because it was clearly explained the only reason he was considered a god was because people considered hashirama to be a fairytale. Kirin is also irrelevant because it was shown not to be unevadeable, while the yata mirror has not yet been debunked.

      Your explanation is far from fine. Growing is not movement. It's an increase in size. You need to move to another location for it to be considered movement. Did the shield move from one location to another without Susano'o? No, it stayed in the same location it was in and just got bigger and/or smaller. So where is your proof? And do you even read the technique you are arguing about? Or is this delusion? 3rd DB states it repels all attacks, but it's not going to do that with Chibaku? Itachi can't repel it back at Nagato? Guess the DB 3 is wrong then and you no longer have anything. Cool. Why didn't he just use Yata to repell the gravitational pull of Chibaku since it's an attack?

      CombatIQmatters wrote: Rofl, the shield was clearly seen moving on it's own accord when it changed in size, moved to cover the side of susano'o, etc etc, all in response to attacks. Even on Chapter 393 pg 6, you can clearly see the shield expanding in size upward. Then the sfx: whoosh, is defined to be "movement through the air" according to the sfx guides, so that clearly means the shield was returning back to it's normal size. So the shield is capable of movement, so concession accepted. If the shield only changes for attacks that make "contact with it", then why is it moving/expanding to protect the side of susano'o, when the shield originally only covers the front? Last I check, momentum is a property of an object. The mirror can change any of it's properties in accordance with an attack to render it ineffective, so it can change it's velocity, period. More grasping at straws, those other hyperbole were debunked because they were shown to be countered in the manga, while the yata mirror has not been debunked, and there is a stated mechanic for it's invincibility. No one is harming itachi as long as his stamina lasts and as long as the shield and blade are being wielded, as per canon. Kishimoto>you. when his stamina runs out, then sure he dies, but the condition for invincibility was terminated at that point.

      Boy do you need to learn English. Growing and Movement are two different things. You should pick up a dictionary cause so far you have used consession wrong and don't know the difference between movement and growing. I would like to see this sfx guide too, where is it? If it isn't written by Kishimoto and belongs to a scanalation, don't bother. I've read enough to know that all sites translate things differently. Also where's your proof that was for the shield and not Susano'o changing forms? Also there's a difference between a character statement and how Kishimoto actually feels. Characters are right until proven wrong? Hiruzen in his prime is the greatest Hokage then cause it wasn't proven wrong. "Kishimoto>you", what a bunch of goop. Sounds like at this point your back is against the corner with all that made up voohoo goop.

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    • @JameSenpai Your reading comprehension is literally trash tier, so I don't want to hear any accusations from you that I don't understand English. It took you 3 posts to even understand one of my basic arguments, and you read too much into my" I accept your concession" statement, which obviously means that I have shown you don't have a counterargument and are just throwing fluff. Clear bias, naruto and sasuke aren't special, their attacks aren't getting through yata, Kishimoto>you.

      ROFL, no I don't you are the one making the claim that these ethereal items don't have a chakra cost. That was not stated or shown in the canon, so you have to prove your claims. You even grasp at straws by bringing up kunai, which verifiably aren't a ninjutsu or anything like that. No one knows the origin of those ethereal items or whether they use chakra or anything like that, or if they incur any cost to the wielder, it's mere speculation. I never made any claims, I simply said saying it doesn't have a chakra cost without any evidence to support your claims is a baseless assumption. If you don't know, you don't know, period. The author clearly showed Itachi utilizing those weapons with his susano'o. He isn't seen walking around with them. His rib cage susano'o isn't shown with it. Not even his skeletal susano'o is seen wielding it. Only his fully armored susano'o and complete body susano'o are seen wielding it. The weapons weren't originally apart of his susano'o, but it's very clear that itachi has bound them to his susano'o, and as such they inherently now have a chakra cost since their usage is directly tied to susano'o, a technique that requires chakra, period. Furthermore, even the Sage of Six path's ninja tools were stated to have a chakra cost, so nothing says the yata mirror or totsuka blade don't incur a cost to the user, there is simply not enough information. So get your facts straight before coming at me.

      Rofl. I very clearly stated that the chibaku tensei wouldn't affect his susano'o. Nagato launches the core. The core isn't an attack in of itself, it's gravitational pull is the "attack". The yata mirror would negate the effect of the pull on itachi and his susano'o. The yata mirror wouldn't destroy the core because it is purely defensive not offense, as proven when it didn't vaporize sasuke or the snakes. It's Itachi's job to do the offense. The chibaku tensei would still be free to destroy the rest of the terrain and it would still disrupt naruto and bee's attacks. What are they supposed to do, camp in itachi's susano'o forever? They have a war to fight and edo tensei to seal. So, They destroyed the core, stopped the landscape from being destroyed, and moved on with their lives. If nagato dodged the totsuka blitz, then the fight would drag out and the chibaku tensei would cause a problem for their attacks if not destroyed.

      Rofl, It's not my job to provide you with the resources. Get yourself access to the Viz, which are official naruto manga translations. The Viz scans clearly show what I have been describing. The sfx:whoosh is clearly on the yata mirror, which indicates in that context it was shrinking back to normal size. Idk what to tell you, you have the ability to see. The susano'o isn't that tall, and even simply looking at the shape shows that it's the mirror. Get yourself access to the Viz which also offers a sfx guide in each volume, plus there are plenty of sfx dictionaries online. You clearly have access to the internet, so figure it out.

      Rofl, Chapter 393 pg 9, you can see the yata mirror is covering a huge portion of the SIDE of Susano'o. Chapter 393 pg 8, you can clearly see the yata mirror expanding to cover the left side of itachi and his susano'o, even almost reaching to cover the back of Susano'o. I know you can see, and I know you aren't dumb, so I accept your concession. Your semantics about movement is irrelevant, because the shield clearly must move in order to defend against atttacks. Growing in size, changing shape , is enough proof it can do that. The databook clearly states it can change any of it's properties/characertisitcs. So it can change it's speed. In order to change your speed, you must be able to move, so you have been debunked.

      Rofl, you are the one who's back is against the wall. Characters are right until proven wrong, because of the context. Black Zetsu was a spectator for the audience and is an information speclaist. I could care less if Black Zetsu has been wrong, everyone has been wrong about something. No one is omniscient, neither you or I included. Hashirama thought it was possible for sasuke could change madara's heart. he was proven wrong when madara stabbed sasuke in the heart, does that suddenly mean everything that comes out of hashirama's mouth is false? no it doesn't. Kishimoto supported zetsu's statement when he gave a mechanic for yata mirror's invincibility in his databook, so yes it is how the author feels. Kishimoto is right until proven wrong because it's his manga, not yours.

      I'll give you credit though, you at least had the honesty with yourself to admit the shield has changed in size, unlike other people.

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    • CombatIQmatters wrote: @JameSenpai Your reading comprehension is literally trash tier, so I don't want to hear any accusations from you that I don't understand English. It took you 3 posts to even understand one of my basic arguments, and you read too much into my" I accept your concession" statement, which obviously means that I have shown you don't have a counterargument and are just throwing fluff. Clear bias, naruto and sasuke aren't special, their attacks aren't getting through yata, Kishimoto>you.

      ROFL, no I don't you are the one making the claim that these ethereal items don't have a chakra cost. That was not stated or shown in the canon, so you have to prove your claims. You even grasp at straws by bringing up kunai, which verifiably aren't a ninjutsu or anything like that. No one knows the origin of those ethereal items or whether they use chakra or anything like that, or if they incur any cost to the wielder, it's mere speculation. I never made any claims, I simply said saying it doesn't have a chakra cost without any evidence to support your claims is a baseless assumption. If you don't know, you don't know, period. The author clearly showed Itachi utilizing those weapons with his susano'o. He isn't seen walking around with them. His rib cage susano'o isn't shown with it. Not even his skeletal susano'o is seen wielding it. Only his fully armored susano'o and complete body susano'o are seen wielding it. The weapons weren't originally apart of his susano'o, but it's very clear that itachi has bound them to his susano'o, and as such they inherently now have a chakra cost since their usage is directly tied to susano'o, a technique that requires chakra, period. Furthermore, even the Sage of Six path's ninja tools were stated to have a chakra cost, so nothing says the yata mirror or totsuka blade don't incur a cost to the user, there is simply not enough information. So get your facts straight before coming at me.

      Rofl. I very clearly stated that the chibaku tensei wouldn't affect his susano'o. Nagato launches the core. The core isn't an attack in of itself, it's gravitational pull is the "attack". The yata mirror would negate the effect of the pull on itachi and his susano'o. The yata mirror wouldn't destroy the core because it is purely defensive not offense, as proven when it didn't vaporize sasuke or the snakes. It's Itachi's job to do the offense. The chibaku tensei would still be free to destroy the rest of the terrain and it would still disrupt naruto and bee's attacks. What are they supposed to do, camp in itachi's susano'o forever? They have a war to fight and edo tensei to seal. So, They destroyed the core, stopped the landscape from being destroyed, and moved on with their lives. If nagato dodged the totsuka blitz, then the fight would drag out and the chibaku tensei would cause a problem for their attacks if not destroyed.

      Rofl, It's not my job to provide you with the resources. Get yourself access to the Viz, which are official naruto manga translations. The Viz scans clearly show what I have been describing. The sfx:whoosh is clearly on the yata mirror, which indicates in that context it was shrinking back to normal size. Idk what to tell you, you have the ability to see. The susano'o isn't that tall, and even simply looking at the shape shows that it's the mirror. Get yourself access to the Viz which also offers a sfx guide in each volume, plus there are plenty of sfx dictionaries online. You clearly have access to the internet, so figure it out.

      Rofl, Chapter 393 pg 9, you can see the yata mirror is covering a huge portion of the SIDE of Susano'o. Chapter 393 pg 8, you can clearly see the yata mirror expanding to cover the left side of itachi and his susano'o, even almost reaching to cover the back of Susano'o. I know you can see, and I know you aren't dumb, so I accept your concession. Your semantics about movement is irrelevant, because the shield clearly must move in order to defend against atttacks. Growing in size, changing shape , is enough proof it can do that. The databook clearly states it can change any of it's properties/characertisitcs. So it can change it's speed. In order to change your speed, you must be able to move, so you have been debunked.

      Rofl, you are the one who's back is against the wall. Characters are right until proven wrong, because of the context. Black Zetsu was a spectator for the audience and is an information speclaist. I could care less if Black Zetsu has been wrong, everyone has been wrong about something. No one is omniscient, neither you or I included. Hashirama thought it was possible for sasuke could change madara's heart. he was proven wrong when madara stabbed sasuke in the heart, does that suddenly mean everything that comes out of hashirama's mouth is false? no it doesn't. Kishimoto supported zetsu's statement when he gave a mechanic for yata mirror's invincibility in his databook, so yes it is how the author feels. Kishimoto is right until proven wrong because it's his manga, not yours.

      I'll give you credit though, you at least had the honesty with yourself to admit the shield has changed in size, unlike other people.

      Bleh. You give me a headache. For one, I'm not biased. How is someone biased for saying someone isn't omnipotent when that character said everyone has a weakness? Itachi is actually one of my favorite characters fyi if not my favorite (can't really decide between him and Shisui), so it just shows how wrong and judgmental you are. I just can't stand other people who give us fans a bad image with their none sense of calling a character invincible. It's people like you that makes the Itachi fan community have such a bad image.

      I read everything you said just fine. No one believes that. Not even Kishimoto. So your whole "Kishimoto>you" crap, doesn't work. Kishimoto didn't say Itachi was invincible. Even in the hyperbole shit, he didn't. He said the mirror can block any attack. Can is used. That means it has the ability to. Doesn't mean it automatically does it. I can speak spanish, but that doesn't mean I automatically speak spanish. A sword can be sharp. Does't mean it automatically is. Sasuke's Kusangi supposedly can pierce through anything, but it doesn't go around piercing things on it's own. Come on dude.

      Yes, you need to prove your claims. They are said to be items. Objects. It isn't said a kunai doesn't cost Chakra does it? No. So by that rule a kunai costs Chakra to use. You have no proof that they cost Chakra do you? All I need to say is they're items and that's that. Items only cost Chakra when they are said to. If you want to continue arguing over it, then show me I'm wrong.

      I'm looking at the viz site and they don't have a sfx guide. Que?

      So pretty much you are saying growing is movement? Well thanks for proving my point on not knowing the difference. You have to move from one location to another. It never did. Susano'o's arm did. So gg.

      Black Zetsu is almost always wrong, so no. A character is not right until proven wrong. Hiruzen in prime is stronger than Hashirama then. You can't say something is a rule and deny something that follows that rule. We haven't seen prime Hiruzen have we? So nothing proves the statement wrong. So by that rule, he's the strongest Hokage until we see his prime showing the opposite. Too bad no one follows that logic. Character statements are always taken with a grain of salt for reasons like Sasuke at Genin already reacting to Light speed cause of Haku's statement and the Db entry saying he moves at the speed of reflections which is light speed. By that rule Itachi is weaker than Jiraiya which I disagree entirely. He said he couldn't take him and we have nothing to prove the statement wrong without guessing. So hell no is that legit. Can Itachi be beaten? Yes. So he isn't invincible.

      I don't deny proof. If you got it, I accept it. I really have no reason to deny anything that helps a Character I like either. The argument you and me have is can Yata move without Susano'o's arm moving it? I see no proof it can. Expanding isn't movement. Movement has to be a change in locations. If the shield stays in one location but just grows, it isn't changing locations. If a tree grows, it's not moving to a new location. It's just growing.

      You said it yourself. Itachi added them to his Susano'o. He didn't need to, he chose to. It's also said that Orochimaru searched for the sword which means people can hold them.

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    • @JamesSenpai The reason I said you are biased is for a few reasons. One, you keep putting words in my mouth. I said Itachi is only invincible while he is wielding both the blade and the mirror, as stated in the canon. How is that so hard to understand? Seriously, reread all my posts. If you think I'm being judgmental, then I'll tone down my posts, but if you actually stopped putting words in my mouth that would be nice.

      I stated from the beginning, Itachi has two major weaknesses. He doesn't start in susano'o. If you are fast enough, you can blitz him before he activates it. Two, he has shit stamina and a terminal illness, which means he isn't holding up the mirror long enough against multiple high level opponents. He will succumb to his stamina and die eventually.


      It doesn't matter if Itachi is your favorite character or not. Our discussion is about the abilities of the Yata Mirror. The point is the Yata mirror turns back any attack, full stop. The reason I said you were biased was because you made predictable comments like: "You really that delusioned to think Naruto and Sasuke at this current time can't beat Itachi while his Susano'o is up? Sheesh." What does the current Naruto and Sasuke have to do with the shown feats and description of the Yata mirror, absolutely nothing.

      No I don't have to prove anything. The bottomline is, Itachi has bound those weapons to his susano'o. There is no evidence that he can currently wield them without it, even if that was the case when he originally found those weapons. The burden of proof is on you to claim that he can. The fact that he doesn't wield them 24/7 would imply there is a cost. Even if there is none, Itachi made the conscious decision to bind them to his susano'o, which costs chakra to maintain. Kunai, swords, and shurikens aren't the same as a spiritual weapon. Paper bombs cost chakra, and any other relevant tool of a similiar category does. The proof is that he didn't use the yata mirror to block kirin. Going by your logic, he could have simply spawned the yata mirror out of his ass and blocked the attack, yet he clearly attributed his survival to his susano'o. That in of itself proves that he must achieve the complete body susano'o before he can wield the mirror, end of story. There isn't even physical evidence that he managed to elevate that far. In my opinion, he only got up to the skeletal susano'o based on all the evidence.

      More putting words in my mouth. When did I state that growing and moving are the exact same thing? nowhere. I simply said the mirror grows to adapt to the attack, and if it must, it can move on it's own based on the databook description. It wasn't seen moving in the canon because that wasn't a necessary adapation, growing in size satisfied itachi's needs.

      Furthermore, you missed the context of what I said. The mirror clearly was seen moving because it has the sfx:whoosh, which means rapid movement through the air. Again, Chapter 393 pg 6. The mirror rapidly expanded in height, and in this CONTEXT, movement refers to the shield shrinking through the air back to it's normal size. The shield grew but growing and shrinking through the air is a type of movement.

      How am I supposed to take you seriously when you can't understand alternative uses for English words. Furthermore, you come at me even suggesting that I would use fake translations to support my argument, when you still haven't accessed the Viz scans and looked up the sfx dictionary for yourself. Like I said, the physical copies of naruto come with a sfx guide. If you don't have a physical copy, then I don't know what to tell you, there are plenty of methods online that you can use to get access to the information. I don't want you claiming I'm using false info, I want you to see it for yourself on your own accord. If you needed assistance, then you should have asked or gotten the resources before blurting out your claims.


      Furthermore, Like I said, Kishimoto is right until proven wrong. I don't care about the databook claiming genin sasuke was light speed in reactions, because that was debunked well before that databook entry came out. The databook always has hyperbolic entries, and entries designed for trolling, like claiming sasuke has god like speed and can take on all the akatsuki, while on the same page showing his godlike speed being reacted to. There is a difference between those types of entries and entries that are supported by the manga and have not been debunked in any shape or form. I don't care about your subjective views about how you judge character credibility. Everyone has been wrong about something, period. Kabuto himself was the one who claimed hirzuen was the strongest and kabuto retracted that statment when he admitted he didn't know about hashirama's true power. The Fact that the databook and shown feats support Black Zetsu's statement debunks your claim. Kishimoto said the shield turns back any attack by altering it's attributes in accordance with the attack in his databook, so he is right until proven wrong.

      Lol, and anyone who has watched Itachi's feats knows that Jiraiya isn't even a match for even a serious 3 tomoe Itachi. Jiraiya can't track his clone formation speeds, so he is gonna get stomped by an exploding shadow clone. Everyone knows Itachi was playing the role of a spy when he told kisame that Jiraiya was too much for Kisame + Itachi+ reinforcements. Kisame himself knew that, because after they retreated, he said to itachi "why did we have to retreat, with your power...?". Lmao, even Kisame knows itachi was jobbing to Jiraiya. Rofl, even Kisame alone is enough to beat Jiraiya. Kisame thought Jiraiya was stronger than him based on hype, but he didn't know what Jiraiya was actually capable of. In an actual fight Kisame would literally suck Jiraiya dry. Lion's mane? drained by samehada. Rasengan? drained by samehada. Suiton>katon. Sage mode is irrelevant because Kisame would drain jiraiya dry before he got the chance to turn kisame into stone. Jiriaya would have to fill Kisame with nature energy amounting to the size of Kisame's reserves, and Kisame in base has bijuu levels of chakra. Jiraiya is dead before that happens. With just two sword strikes, Kisame literally absorbed all of Killer Bee's chakra, to the point Killer Bee had to rely purely on Gyuki's chakra to fight Kisame, which says alot. Kisame and Itachi one versus one are two beasts out of Jiraiya's league, so Kisame and Itachi against Jiraiya is pure spite.

      This is why I said you were biased, because you bring up statements that were clearly debunked by other statements and shown feats, which comes across like You are grasping at straws. But anyways, I did get a bit hotheaded, So I apologize.

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    • Look Bottom line Itachi with Yata mirror is OP, only if susanoo activates. But then again, dude's was seriously sick and can't maintain Susanoo for that long. Just avoid him until the susanoo runs out, and then just blitz him. Naruto's speed helps him with that (Six Paths Naruto).

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    • @Areeb.hasan

      Thank you, you actually understood what I was saying. but Six paths naruto can't outlast Itachi 1v1. Genjutsu at Itachi's level is still the bane of Naruto's existence. Itachi wins via finger genjutsu followed by Tsykuyomi. Naruto needs backup to defeat Itachi. Itachi with yata and totsuka is still a god tier shinobi.

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    • CombatIQmatters wrote: @Areeb.hasan

      Thank you, you actually understood what I was saying. but Six paths naruto can't outlast Itachi 1v1. Genjutsu at Itachi's level is still the bane of Naruto's existence. Itachi wins via finger genjutsu followed by Tsykuyomi. Naruto needs backup to defeat Itachi. Itachi with yata and totsuka is still a god tier shinobi.

      Oh right, forgot about tsykuyomi. Although the second part of the argument, Naruto and Sasuke (they are definitely content with working together by the point they got six paths.) both are god tiers and OP in their own way. Naruto outclasses nearly both Itachi and Sasuke in pure raw power, while Sasuke is more like Itachi, with genjutsus (albeit not as strong ones), Chidoris, EMS powers (which is where he would beat Itachi in terms of abilities) and then the Rinnegan, further enhancing his usefulness in battle.

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    • Itachi vs Six paths Sasuke and six paths Naruto is interesting. Yata mirror would stop Amenotejikara in it's tracks. But Itachi has to elevate to complete body susano'o first. He can end up dying to the pincer attack naruto and sasuke used against juubidara before the mirror comes out, because he doesn't have any intel on sasuke's new technique. but that assumes Sasuke would use Ameno immediately, would he?

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    • CombatIQmatters wrote: Itachi vs Six paths Sasuke and six paths Naruto is interesting. Yata mirror would stop Amenotejikara in it's tracks. But Itachi has to elevate to complete body susano'o first. He can end up dying to the pincer attack naruto and sasuke used against juubidara before the mirror comes out, because he doesn't have any intel on sasuke's new technique. but that assumes Sasuke would use Ameno immediately, would he?

      Naruto could use the entrapping Rasengan to stop the susanoo from developing completely

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    • CombatIQmatters wrote: @JamesSenpai The reason I said you are biased is for a few reasons. One, you keep putting words in my mouth. I said Itachi is only invincible while he is wielding both the blade and the mirror, as stated in the canon. How is that so hard to understand? Seriously, reread all my posts. If you think I'm being judgmental, then I'll tone down my posts, but if you actually stopped putting words in my mouth that would be nice.

      I stated from the beginning, Itachi has two major weaknesses. He doesn't start in susano'o. If you are fast enough, you can blitz him before he activates it. Two, he has shit stamina and a terminal illness, which means he isn't holding up the mirror long enough against multiple high level opponents. He will succumb to his stamina and die eventually.


      It doesn't matter if Itachi is your favorite character or not. Our discussion is about the abilities of the Yata Mirror. The point is the Yata mirror turns back any attack, full stop. The reason I said you were biased was because you made predictable comments like: "You really that delusioned to think Naruto and Sasuke at this current time can't beat Itachi while his Susano'o is up? Sheesh." What does the current Naruto and Sasuke have to do with the shown feats and description of the Yata mirror, absolutely nothing.

      No I don't have to prove anything. The bottomline is, Itachi has bound those weapons to his susano'o. There is no evidence that he can currently wield them without it, even if that was the case when he originally found those weapons. The burden of proof is on you to claim that he can. The fact that he doesn't wield them 24/7 would imply there is a cost. Even if there is none, Itachi made the conscious decision to bind them to his susano'o, which costs chakra to maintain. Kunai, swords, and shurikens aren't the same as a spiritual weapon. Paper bombs cost chakra, and any other relevant tool of a similiar category does. The proof is that he didn't use the yata mirror to block kirin. Going by your logic, he could have simply spawned the yata mirror out of his ass and blocked the attack, yet he clearly attributed his survival to his susano'o. That in of itself proves that he must achieve the complete body susano'o before he can wield the mirror, end of story. There isn't even physical evidence that he managed to elevate that far. In my opinion, he only got up to the skeletal susano'o based on all the evidence.

      More putting words in my mouth. When did I state that growing and moving are the exact same thing? nowhere. I simply said the mirror grows to adapt to the attack, and if it must, it can move on it's own based on the databook description. It wasn't seen moving in the canon because that wasn't a necessary adapation, growing in size satisfied itachi's needs.

      Furthermore, you missed the context of what I said. The mirror clearly was seen moving because it has the sfx:whoosh, which means rapid movement through the air. Again, Chapter 393 pg 6. The mirror rapidly expanded in height, and in this CONTEXT, movement refers to the shield shrinking through the air back to it's normal size. The shield grew but growing and shrinking through the air is a type of movement.

      How am I supposed to take you seriously when you can't understand alternative uses for English words. Furthermore, you come at me even suggesting that I would use fake translations to support my argument, when you still haven't accessed the Viz scans and looked up the sfx dictionary for yourself. Like I said, the physical copies of naruto come with a sfx guide. If you don't have a physical copy, then I don't know what to tell you, there are plenty of methods online that you can use to get access to the information. I don't want you claiming I'm using false info, I want you to see it for yourself on your own accord. If you needed assistance, then you should have asked or gotten the resources before blurting out your claims.


      Furthermore, Like I said, Kishimoto is right until proven wrong. I don't care about the databook claiming genin sasuke was light speed in reactions, because that was debunked well before that databook entry came out. The databook always has hyperbolic entries, and entries designed for trolling, like claiming sasuke has god like speed and can take on all the akatsuki, while on the same page showing his godlike speed being reacted to. There is a difference between those types of entries and entries that are supported by the manga and have not been debunked in any shape or form. I don't care about your subjective views about how you judge character credibility. Everyone has been wrong about something, period. Kabuto himself was the one who claimed hirzuen was the strongest and kabuto retracted that statment when he admitted he didn't know about hashirama's true power. The Fact that the databook and shown feats support Black Zetsu's statement debunks your claim. Kishimoto said the shield turns back any attack by altering it's attributes in accordance with the attack in his databook, so he is right until proven wrong.

      Lol, and anyone who has watched Itachi's feats knows that Jiraiya isn't even a match for even a serious 3 tomoe Itachi. Jiraiya can't track his clone formation speeds, so he is gonna get stomped by an exploding shadow clone. Everyone knows Itachi was playing the role of a spy when he told kisame that Jiraiya was too much for Kisame + Itachi+ reinforcements. Kisame himself knew that, because after they retreated, he said to itachi "why did we have to retreat, with your power...?". Lmao, even Kisame knows itachi was jobbing to Jiraiya. Rofl, even Kisame alone is enough to beat Jiraiya. Kisame thought Jiraiya was stronger than him based on hype, but he didn't know what Jiraiya was actually capable of. In an actual fight Kisame would literally suck Jiraiya dry. Lion's mane? drained by samehada. Rasengan? drained by samehada. Suiton>katon. Sage mode is irrelevant because Kisame would drain jiraiya dry before he got the chance to turn kisame into stone. Jiriaya would have to fill Kisame with nature energy amounting to the size of Kisame's reserves, and Kisame in base has bijuu levels of chakra. Jiraiya is dead before that happens. With just two sword strikes, Kisame literally absorbed all of Killer Bee's chakra, to the point Killer Bee had to rely purely on Gyuki's chakra to fight Kisame, which says alot. Kisame and Itachi one versus one are two beasts out of Jiraiya's league, so Kisame and Itachi against Jiraiya is pure spite.

      This is why I said you were biased, because you bring up statements that were clearly debunked by other statements and shown feats, which comes across like You are grasping at straws. But anyways, I did get a bit hotheaded, So I apologize.

      Bruh. The viz doesn't have an sfx guide. I looked it up from up to down. Volume to volume. Literally sound effects aren't described in the Viz. If you have proof, post it. If not, I have nothing to discuss on the matter. I did the research and the research shows you're wrong. Nothing I can do about it.

      Why couldn't Itachi wield them? They're items. Not Chakra weapons. Not Kekkei Genkai. What argument do you have that comes from the canon that even remotely hints that he cannot? There is absolutely no reason to even say that you can't wield them. I already made valid points. Orochimaru. They're items. All you have given is just made up stories on the matter. Nothing stemming from the canon. I'm supposed to trust in wild theories? No.

      Kishimoto didn't say what you say he did. I don't know why you exaggerate. https://i.imgur.com/fGXONDB.png He said what i said he said. It can repel any attack. Can was used. A shield can block doesn't mean it does it on it's own. A sword can stab someone, doesn't mean it goes around stabbing on it's own. The Yata Mirror can repel any attack, doesn't mean it does it on it's own. I don't know why you don't understand the basics of literature. Zetsu's and the Databook's entry are not proof it can move on it's own accord.

      You can call me biased all you want. You can say i put words in your mouth all you want. You said growth is proof it can move on it's own.
      CombatIQmatters wrote: Your semantics about movement is irrelevant, because the shield clearly must move in order to defend against atttacks. Growing in size, changing shape , is enough proof it can do that.

      Don't act ignorant. All I've said so far was exactly what you have said. If not, then you worded yourself wrong, cause I'm clearly not the only one taking it that way.

      Although I agree that Itachi can beat Jiraiya, I doubt he would only need three tomoe. That's equivalent to saying he would beat Jiraiya with ease, and that is another reason why the Itachi fan community has such a bad rep. I doubt Jiraiya could be done in by a simple clone tactic. You're making him sound like an Academy Student whose intelligence is far lesser than Itachi's. I also don't think Kisame can beat him. Sage Mode Jiraiya is not some pushover fodder lesser than Kakashi.

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    • @JamesSenpai Blatant ignorance. You yourself cited the databook scan, yet you missed the statement of the mirror "power to change any one of it's physical properties". That is enough proof that it can move if it needs to.

      I didn't word myself wrong at all. Like I said, for the umpteenth time, growing and changing in size is a type of movemement, as the author clearly shows you the sfx:whoosh on the mirror on the same page it is decreasing in size back to normal. You are the one acting ignorant, and the reason you still don't get it is because you still haven't accessed the sfx guide. It's not surprising you don't understand the clear English coming out of my keyboard when you literally don't understand the context of my statements. When an object grows in size rapidly, that is considered a type of movement. As choji grows with his expansion jutsu, he is literally displacing all the air above him. The same thing happens when you clearly see kcm naruto's chakra arms growing out from him and there are movement lines drawn on the chakra arm...

      IF you truly accessed the Viz like you claimed, you can clearly see the SFX:whoosh there on the manga page. So Idk what to tell you. How hard is it to research what the SFX:whoosh means and confirm what I said? These dictionaries exist online even if you didn't get a physical copy from a bookstore, and even just now I googled a dictionary that says the same thing. http://thejadednetwork.com/sfx/search/?keyword=Sfx%3Awhoosh&submitSearch=Search+SFX&x= Sfx:whoosh = swift or fast motion, clearly shown at the bottom of the page on this site. Then, since you supposedly have accessed the Viz scans, the sfx:whoosh is clearly shown on the page I referenced. If after this post, you still somehow don't get it, then I'm confident you are biased. I used the correct translation and I gave you the definition multiple times.


      Yes Itachi only needs 3 tomoe to defeat Jiraiya. I use feats to support my arguments, so spare me the nonsense about the "itachi fan community having a bad rep". It only has a bad rep with people who refuse to look at feats critically. Itachi is second only to hashirama when it comes to clone feinting. Itachi literally clone feinted Sage mode kabuto multiple times, yet base Jiraiya is tracking his clone formations? yeah right. Second of all, Itachi is a genius. Jiraiya is smart and creative but he isn't on Itachi's level, period. Anyone who thinks that obviously needs to reread the whole manga. Itachi is literally the second greatest genjutsu user of all time behind shisui, not including those with the ten tails. He can kill Jiraiya in 2 moves. Superior hand seal speed, first of all. Jiraiya won't even know when Itachi has made a move because he lacks a sharingan, not that it helped kakashi and sasuke lmao. On the flip side, Itachi can easily grasp insight into Jiraiya's jutsu formation with his own sharingan. So Itachi can steal initiative in the fight and cast his hand seals the moment he sees jiraiya starting his own handseals, and Itachi's jutsu will still go off first, and there is literally no opening technique in Jiraiya's arsenal that Itachi doesn't have an answer for. So, Finger genjutsu followed by exploding shadow clone wins the fight before it begins. Jiraiya can break the genjutsu but as soon as he does, the clone will already be behind him. Itachi is faster in every way-better jutsu speed, better movement speed, better reflexes, and he has better hax in general, and that isn't even including all his mangeyko hax. Jiraiya isn't on Itachi's level.

      Rofl. Kisame is an antimeta swordsman. If you haven't paid attention, samehada is very long in length it's essentially as tall as Kisame is. Furthermore, on top of that, samehada has shown the ability to grow in length by elongating the handle. A battle starts at the most, 30 feet away. With his sword length, Kisame literally only has to cover less than 2/3s of that distance thanks to the reach of samehada. Then on TOP of that, samehada doesn't even need direct physical contact to start absorbing chakra/ninjutsu. Base Jiraiya has no running speed feats (especially backward running feats, and backward running is slower than forward running) to suggest he is any faster than Kisame. So Kisame will chase him down and control the distance with his longsword. You also clearly didn't watch the parts of the canon that showed why swordsmen are antimeta to ninjutsu users because kenjutsu>handsigns. Kisame adds a whole new level to that because even if you get a ninjutsu off before he closes the distance, samehada simply absorbs it. When Kisame charges, Jiraiya is smart enough to know he can't let kisame get into Close range, or jiraiya loses the fight right then and there, because he has no way of escaping or dealing with samehada without access to sage mode. Kisame is physically stronger, more durable, and jiraiya isn't might guy, he isn't beating kisame in Close quarters combat, and his ninjutsu are useless to chakra absorption. Kisame has already shown the ability to even interrupt summoning jutsu. Jiraiya is most likely gonna do what he did to Pain and use a smoke bomb to escape when Kisame charges, so that he can use his guerrilla tactics and stall to enter sage mode. Except, Kisame then has initiative to summon the water dome, fuse with his sword, activating his sensing abilities, and the fight is over. Jiraiya has no way of escaping Kisamehada in the water dome, period. It's highly unlikely that Jiraiya even gets the chance to enter sage mode before Kisame drains him to death.

      And you are using abc logic. Base jiraiya can beat kakashi, but kakashi has a much higher chance of defeating kisame compared to base jiraya because he has two things samehada can't stop: genjutsu and kamui. Jiriaya needs to get into sage mode first before he can utilize any genjutsu. Kakashi (depending on the variant) has a decent chance to steal a win against kisame with a genjutsu + kamui more times than not, because he too knows too much about samehada to be stupid enough to try using raikiri on Kisame without a plan. Kisame is likely skilled enough to break kakashi's genjutsu but depending on the variant of kakashi (early war arc kakashi has enough aiming proficiency and chakra reserves to effectively utilize kamui in battle) snipe Kisame's head off just as kisame breaks the genjutsu, and he can do those two moves when kisame tries to close the distance on him.

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    • CombatIQmatters wrote: @JamesSenpai Blatant ignorance. You yourself cited the databook scan, yet you missed the statement of the mirror "power to change any one of it's physical properties". That is enough proof that it can move if it needs to.

      I didn't word myself wrong at all. Like I said, for the umpteenth time, growing and changing in size is a type of movemement, as the author clearly shows you the sfx:whoosh on the mirror on the same page it is decreasing in size back to normal. You are the one acting ignorant, and the reason you still don't get it is because you still haven't accessed the sfx guide. It's not surprising you don't understand the clear English coming out of my keyboard when you literally don't understand the context of my statements. When an object grows in size rapidly, that is considered a type of movement. As choji grows with his expansion jutsu, he is literally displacing all the air above him. The same thing happens when you clearly see kcm naruto's chakra arms growing out from him and there are movement lines drawn on the chakra arm...

      IF you truly accessed the Viz like you claimed, you can clearly see the SFX:whoosh there on the manga page. So Idk what to tell you. How hard is it to research what the SFX:whoosh means and confirm what I said? These dictionaries exist online even if you didn't get a physical copy from a bookstore, and even just now I googled a dictionary that says the same thing. http://thejadednetwork.com/sfx/search/?keyword=Sfx%3Awhoosh&submitSearch=Search+SFX&x= Sfx:whoosh = swift or fast motion, clearly shown at the bottom of the page on this site. Then, since you supposedly have accessed the Viz scans, the sfx:whoosh is clearly shown on the page I referenced. If after this post, you still somehow don't get it, then I'm confident you are biased. I used the correct translation and I gave you the definition multiple times.


      Yes Itachi only needs 3 tomoe to defeat Jiraiya. I use feats to support my arguments, so spare me the nonsense about the "itachi fan community having a bad rep". It only has a bad rep with people who refuse to look at feats critically. Itachi is second only to hashirama when it comes to clone feinting. Itachi literally clone feinted Sage mode kabuto multiple times, yet base Jiraiya is tracking his clone formations? yeah right. Second of all, Itachi is a genius. Jiraiya is smart and creative but he isn't on Itachi's level, period. Anyone who thinks that obviously needs to reread the whole manga. Itachi is literally the second greatest genjutsu user of all time behind shisui, not including those with the ten tails. He can kill Jiraiya in 2 moves. Superior hand seal speed, first of all. Jiraiya won't even know when Itachi has made a move because he lacks a sharingan, not that it helped kakashi and sasuke lmao. On the flip side, Itachi can easily grasp insight into Jiraiya's jutsu formation with his own sharingan. So Itachi can steal initiative in the fight and cast his hand seals the moment he sees jiraiya starting his own handseals, and Itachi's jutsu will still go off first, and there is literally no opening technique in Jiraiya's arsenal that Itachi doesn't have an answer for. So, Finger genjutsu followed by exploding shadow clone wins the fight before it begins. Jiraiya can break the genjutsu but as soon as he does, the clone will already be behind him. Itachi is faster in every way-better jutsu speed, better movement speed, better reflexes, and he has better hax in general, and that isn't even including all his mangeyko hax. Jiraiya isn't on Itachi's level.

      Rofl. Kisame is an antimeta swordsman. If you haven't paid attention, samehada is very long in length it's essentially as tall as Kisame is. Furthermore, on top of that, samehada has shown the ability to grow in length by elongating the handle. A battle starts at the most, 30 feet away. With his sword length, Kisame literally only has to cover less than 2/3s of that distance thanks to the reach of samehada. Then on TOP of that, samehada doesn't even need direct physical contact to start absorbing chakra/ninjutsu. Base Jiraiya has no running speed feats (especially backward running feats, and backward running is slower than forward running) to suggest he is any faster than Kisame. So Kisame will chase him down and control the distance with his longsword. You also clearly didn't watch the parts of the canon that showed why swordsmen are antimeta to ninjutsu users because kenjutsu>handsigns. Kisame adds a whole new level to that because even if you get a ninjutsu off before he closes the distance, samehada simply absorbs it. When Kisame charges, Jiraiya is smart enough to know he can't let kisame get into Close range, or jiraiya loses the fight right then and there, because he has no way of escaping or dealing with samehada without access to sage mode. Kisame is physically stronger, more durable, and jiraiya isn't might guy, he isn't beating kisame in Close quarters combat, and his ninjutsu are useless to chakra absorption. Kisame has already shown the ability to even interrupt summoning jutsu. Jiraiya is most likely gonna do what he did to Pain and use a smoke bomb to escape when Kisame charges, so that he can use his guerrilla tactics and stall to enter sage mode. Except, Kisame then has initiative to summon the water dome, fuse with his sword, activating his sensing abilities, and the fight is over. Jiraiya has no way of escaping Kisamehada in the water dome, period. It's highly unlikely that Jiraiya even gets the chance to enter sage mode before Kisame drains him to death.

      And you are using abc logic. Base jiraiya can beat kakashi, but kakashi has a much higher chance of defeating kisame compared to base jiraya because he has two things samehada can't stop: genjutsu and kamui. Jiriaya needs to get into sage mode first before he can utilize any genjutsu. Kakashi (depending on the variant) has a decent chance to steal a win against kisame with a genjutsu + kamui more times than not, because he too knows too much about samehada to be stupid enough to try using raikiri on Kisame without a plan. Kisame is likely skilled enough to break kakashi's genjutsu but depending on the variant of kakashi (early war arc kakashi has enough aiming proficiency and chakra reserves to effectively utilize kamui in battle) snipe Kisame's head off just as kisame breaks the genjutsu, and he can do those two moves when kisame tries to close the distance on him.

      Properties are the things it's made of. Not what it can do. Where is your proof it can move?

      No it isn't. Growing is not a type of movement at all. It's growing. It's taking up more space. Not moving spaces. Movement is going from one place to another. If I swing my arm to the left it has moved from where it was to the left. If I jump up then I moved up. If the shield never left it's place but covered more space then it didn't move from that spot. So it isn't movement since it's still in that spot. Do I really need to pull up a dictionary on you? A simple google search will show you, you have to change locations in order for it to be considered movement.

      Viz isn't something illegal to post on here, i looked it up. So I'm calling you out on lying. https://imgur.com/a/DIuRY9F There is no sfx guide on this page or any other page. Anyone can easily find that out since Viz gives you free previews and on the app can earn a some free stuff. Even some Mangas such as Boruto are even free entirely but none have this so called sfx guide. None of the volumes of the entire series in Naruto on the site has an sfx guide, and anyone can check with just the free previews alone. So why are you making up stories? I'm done talking to you cause you have proven too me, you are not someone trustworthy and lie about things for what, to win a debate? Sad. I'm done here.

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    • @JamesSenpai

      I showed you clear evidence of your bias. you could easily find plenty of sfx guides online, I just found one and showed it to you and ignored it. It's like I'm talking to a brick wall at this point. I also very clearly stated that the PHYSICAL COPY of the manga has it in bookstores or they exist in a similar section, because I have seen them for other manga, I didn't tell you to use whatever website you are on. What, you think Sfx guides don't exist ? how else do people translate the sound effects? you are just being an idiot. And no I don't have to post Viz scans, because you clearly have access to the resources yourself. Get your self the manga and the sfx guide your goddam self before calling other people liars. >Doesn't have access to Viz, wants other users to post the resources for them because too lazy to do it themselves. Any admin watching this thread could verify my claims. This is what I have been saying the whole time, your reading comprehension baffles me. So I could care less what you think of me. The manga speaks for itself.The shield clearly expanded and has the appropriate SFX in the Viz. Momentum is a property of an object, guess you also don't understand physics either. Momentum = mass times velocity. Velocity being changed means the movement can be changed, it's that simple.

      Waste of my time arguing with someone who clearly can't understand what I'm saying, then out here with these false accusations.... smh.

      And where do the rules say that I'm required to help a biased user get access to resources? nowhere. so get out of here with that.

      Someday, when you get some common sense and actually get yourself a copy of the actual manga before spouting your claims and look into how the sound effect translations and what they mean, I hope you realize how wrong you were when you look at Chapter 393 pg 6. Good day.

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    • CombatIQmatters wrote: @JamesSenpai

      I showed you clear evidence of your bias. you could easily find plenty of sfx guides online, I just found one and showed it to you and ignored it. It's like I'm talking to a brick wall at this point. I also very clearly stated that the PHYSICAL COPY of the manga has it in bookstores or they exist in a similar section, because I have seen them for other manga, I didn't tell you to use whatever website you are on. What, you think Sfx guides don't exist ? how else do people translate the sound effects? you are just being an idiot. And no I don't have to post Viz scans, because you clearly have access to the resources yourself. Get your self the manga and the sfx guide your goddam self before calling other people liars. >Doesn't have access to Viz, wants other users to post the resources for them because too lazy to do it themselves. Any admin watching this thread could verify my claims. This is what I have been saying the whole time, your reading comprehension baffles me. So I could care less what you think of me. The manga speaks for itself.The shield clearly expanded and has the appropriate SFX in the Viz. Momentum is a property of an object, guess you also don't understand physics either. Momentum = mass times velocity. Velocity being changed means the movement can be changed, it's that simple.

      Waste of my time arguing with someone who clearly can't understand what I'm saying, then out here with these false accusations.... smh.

      And where do the rules say that I'm required to help a biased user get access to resources? nowhere. so get out of here with that.

      Someday, when you get some common sense and actually get yourself a copy of the actual manga before spouting your claims and look into how the sound effect translations and what they mean, I hope you realize how wrong you were when you look at Chapter 393 pg 6. Good day.

      Fake news. I posted a screenshot of the Viz which hasn't been taken down for the a reason. It would of been taken down by the admins if it wasn't the legit translation according to the rule page. I made sure to look it up before posting cause I seen others getting told that wasn't allowed. Nice try buckaroo. You got caught lying. You don't own anything from the Viz. Dueces Talltales. You using that "buy yourself" crap isn't working. Everyone can see my viz screenshot, where's yours? In fairytale land.

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    • Tough. Is Itachi sick? Is Pain all of the Six Pains? Which version of Obito?

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    • Damn Hero knows his shit.

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    • Is that sarcasm?

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    • A FANDOM user
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