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  • Boruto was given his Kama when he used the giant rasengan and beat momoshiki. Even though Boruto did the least in this fight-- he was holding a rasengan made strong enough by naruto and he attacked after sasuke used himself to create the opening. All boruto did was use the jutsu.

    But Momoshiki him this new ability, and it is theorized that you get it from beating a otsutsuki. So how did Kawaki get it? There is no way he was able to beat an otsutsuki, only Sasuke and Naruto has a chance against any of them.

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    • Ryanq214 wrote: But Momoshiki him this new ability, and it is theorized that you get it from beating a otsutsuki. So how did Kawaki get it? There is no way he was able to beat an otsutsuki, only Sasuke and Naruto has a chance against any of them.

      We don't know. Yea he couldn't defeat an otsutsuki, but then neither could Boruto. If kara is related to the Otsutsuki, there may be other ways to obtain these seals.

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    • I can't see how, sasuke has been looking into everything related to kaguya for 15 years. Even things in other dimension--if it had anything related to this kama he would have learned about it.

      Also you right brouto didn't really beat momoshiki--he just happen give him the last hit with naruto's jutsu.

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    • Ryanq214 wrote: I can't see how, sasuke has been looking into everything related to kaguya for 15 years. Even things in other dimension--if it had anything related to this kama he would have learned about it.

      Also you right brouto didn't really beat momoshiki--he just happen give him the last hit with naruto's jutsu.

      Delivering the killing blow seems to be enough and to be frank for whatever reason(Jougan) Boruto did more than the Kage if we’re being totally honest

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    • Why wouldn't they create something new. It's a new generation with new paths and enhanced abilities. The bar is pushed higher, and so the storytelling has to be upped. I am very much interested in seeing the dynamics between Kawaki and Boruto in the future. It kinda reminds me of Naruto and Sasuke's friendship, but there are minor differences. We will see if Kawaki continues his work with the Kama, considering Naruto has been showing him so much care. We know in the future he'll attack Konoha, but we don't know if he initiated the attacked or not, or if he will continue the attack or eventually turn against the Kama and help Boruto defeat them.

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    • Blah044 wrote: Why wouldn't they create something new. It's a new generation with new paths and enhanced abilities. The bar is pushed higher, and so the storytelling has to be upped. ..

      The "bar" has only been raised with the creators of the Boruto anime and manga. If it had kept with the same creator then they would not be, the new writers have a bad habit of making the new generation seem stronger than they should be.

      For example the ninja of Madara and Hashirama's time were stronger than the ones from naruto's generation--because they were raised in constant battle and war. It was only sasuke and naruto in particular that went far above the bar and that was partly because of power that they received from the sage of six paths. And that won't happen again. Those two had to fight a world war and beat the three strongest beings in the world (jinchuriki madara, 10 tails, and Kaguya)--the bar won't get higher than that. That's probably why the original creator didn't really want to keep going after the Boruto movie, boruto's story was more of an after story of the biggest events in that world's history.

      Also I would say the storytelling is definitely worse with the new writers.

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    • Sigh

      Because they can

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    • Ryanq214 wrote:

      Blah044 wrote: Why wouldn't they create something new. It's a new generation with new paths and enhanced abilities. The bar is pushed higher, and so the storytelling has to be upped. ..

      The "bar" has only been raised with the creators of the Boruto anime and manga. If it had kept with the same creator then they would not be, the new writers have a bad habit of making the new generation seem stronger than they should be.

      For example the ninja of Madara and Hashirama's time were stronger than the ones from naruto's generation--because they were raised in constant battle and war. It was only sasuke and naruto in particular that went far above the bar and that was partly because of power that they received from the sage of six paths. And that won't happen again. Those two had to fight a world war and beat the three strongest beings in the world (jinchuriki madara, 10 tails, and Kaguya)--the bar won't get higher than that. That's probably why the original creator didn't really want to keep going after the Boruto movie, boruto's story was more of an after story of the biggest events in that world's history.

      Also I would say the storytelling is definitely worse with the new writers.

      Yeah, they basically make characters stronger/weaker based on the story they need to tell. Very inconsistent.

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    • LaughingLyon wrote: Delivering the killing blow seems to be enough and to be frank for whatever reason(Jougan) Boruto did more than the Kage if we’re being totally honest

      Boruto didn't do more, the kage were actually fighting kinshiki and momoshiki before momoshiki absorbed kinshiki. They almost caught kinshiki and would have beaten momoshiki if it had kept going like that. The only reason he could even move when the other's couldn't is because he wasn't in the fighting group that got paralyzed.

      Also the Jougan is just something the new writers like to use as an excuse to make boruto stronger than he actually is, something absolutely never seen before that came from nowhere. There is no real reason for Boruto to have this, he doesn't have anything that wasn't together at one time--such as the combination of uzumkai and hyuga bloodlines. Neither Kaguay or her sons had anything like it.

      Absolutely no doujutsu from the original creator could make boruto able to land a hit on Momoshiki like that--not the byakugan, rinnegan, sharingan, MS, or EMS. Boruto was losing to gennin/chunnin the day before but somehow this eye magically makes him fast enough to do taijutsu with someone that was knocking out Kage before most of them could react. That is absolute BS

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    • Ryanq214 wrote:

      LaughingLyon wrote: Delivering the killing blow seems to be enough and to be frank for whatever reason(Jougan) Boruto did more than the Kage if we’re being totally honest

      Boruto didn't do more, the kage were actually fighting kinshiki and momoshiki before momoshiki absorbed kinshiki. They almost caught kinshiki and would have beaten momoshiki if it had kept going like that. The only reason he could even move when the other's couldn't is because he wasn't in the fighting group that got paralyzed.

      Also the Jougan is just something the new writers like to use as an excuse to make boruto stronger than he actually is, something absolutely never seen before that came from nowhere. There is no real reason for Boruto to have this, he doesn't have anything that wasn't together at one time--such as the combination of uzumkai and hyuga bloodlines. Neither Kaguay or her sons had anything like it.

      Absolutely no doujutsu from the original creator could make boruto able to land a hit on Momoshiki like that--not the byakugan, rinnegan, sharingan, MS, or EMS. Boruto was losing to gennin/chunnin the day before but somehow this eye magically makes him fast enough to do taijutsu with someone that was knocking out Kage before most of them could react. That is absolute BS


      Name me one Uzumaki /Hyuga that’s not Himawari


      Honestly doesn’t matter how “ BS” you think the Jogan is, it’s now apart of the Lore and at some point you’re going to have to reconcile yourself with that.

      Obviously I was talking about Boruto vs FUSED Momoshiki, but you know that

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    • LaughingLyon wrote: Name me one Uzumaki /Hyuga that’s not Himawari

      Honestly doesn’t matter how “ BS” you think the Jogan is, it’s now apart of the Lore and at some point you’re going to have to reconcile yourself with that.

      Obviously I was talking about Boruto vs FUSED Momoshiki, but you know that

      1) every bloodline stems from kaguya and here two sons--the senju, uchiha, hyuga, uzumaki and everything else. From them we see the creation of the sharingan (a de-evolved or watered down rinnegan), the rinnegan, and the byakugan.

      Boruto and his sister might be the first combination of the two--but these two together don't lead to anything. You have the pure hyuga combination which leads to the tenseigan and the re-joining of both halfs of Haguromo's chakra that leads to the rinnegan. But nothing else. The uzumaki and hyuga themselves don't lead to anything as far as an ability. So again there is nothing to make the Jougan.

      2) The jougan is cannon to the Brotuo series, but it is not part of kishimoto's work. We see here people taking a story and adding on their own and work changing pieces here or there to suit their needs. So no, I don't have to reconcile myself with it. As far as I am concerned the Cannon Naruto series was amazing and brouto manga and anime is the butchered up version of a sequel to it.

      3) I am talking about the entire fight. And I say again-even the strongest doujutsu wouldn't be able to make Boruto fight against Momoshiki. without a doubt the two biggest factors to the win was naurto and sasuke.

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    • Ryanq214 wrote:

      LaughingLyon wrote: Name me one Uzumaki /Hyuga that’s not Himawari

      Honestly doesn’t matter how “ BS” you think the Jogan is, it’s now apart of the Lore and at some point you’re going to have to reconcile yourself with that.

      Obviously I was talking about Boruto vs FUSED Momoshiki, but you know that

      1) every bloodline stems from kaguya and here two sons--the senju, uchiha, hyuga, uzumaki and everything else. From them we see the creation of the sharingan (a de-evolved or watered down rinnegan), the rinnegan, and the byakugan.

      Boruto and his sister might be the first combination of the two--but these two together don't lead to anything. You have the pure hyuga combination which leads to the tenseigan and the re-joining of both halfs of Haguromo's chakra that leads to the rinnegan. But nothing else. The uzumaki and hyuga themselves don't lead to anything as far as an ability. So again there is nothing to make the Jougan.

      2) The jougan is cannon to the Brotuo series, but it is not part of kishimoto's work. We see here people taking a story and adding on their own and work changing pieces here or there to suit their needs. So no, I don't have to reconcile myself with it. As far as I am concerned the Cannon Naruto series was amazing and brouto manga and anime is the butchered up version of a sequel to it.

      3) I am talking about the entire fight. And I say again-even the strongest doujutsu wouldn't be able to make Boruto fight against Momoshiki. without a doubt the two biggest factors to the win was naurto and sasuke.

      What about the ketsuryugan? Pretty sure kaguya didn't have THAT. And the Jōgan is basically a mixture of the Byakugan and Naruto's negative emotions sensing. If you like the "Naruto Canon", as you say, then you will have to accept the ketsuryugan, and therefore the Jōgan, as the two are basically the same in terms of item development.

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    • Ketsuryugan isn't a part of Kishimoto's work either. It belongs to Sasuke Shinden novel's author who is not Kishimoto and wasn't even supervised by him.

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    • Honestly doesn’t matter how “ BS” you think the Jogan is, it’s now apart of the Lore and at some point you’re going to have to reconcile yourself with that.

      Wanna know how I reconcile it? I treat it like Dragon Ball GT.

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    • Littlegen wrote:

      Honestly doesn’t matter how “ BS” you think the Jogan is, it’s now apart of the Lore and at some point you’re going to have to reconcile yourself with that.

      Wanna know how I reconcile it? I treat it like Dragon Ball GT.

      true dat.

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    • The truculent wrote: What about the ketsuryugan? Pretty sure kaguya didn't have THAT. And the Jōgan is basically a mixture of the Byakugan and Naruto's negative emotions sensing. If you like the "Naruto Canon", as you say, then you will have to accept the ketsuryugan, and therefore the Jōgan, as the two are basically the same in terms of item development.

      The Ktsuryugan was in a filler made by the animators after the war, it was not created by kishimoto. The manga ended just after the war and then has three stories from kishimoto after (Naruto: the last, the shin uchiha arc, and the Boruto movie). It is basically the same as the Jougan, stuff other people created without Kishimoto.

      As Ravenlot said-->

      Ravenlot 27 wrote: Ketsuryugan isn't a part of Kishimoto's work either. It belongs to Sasuke Shinden novel's author who is not Kishimoto and wasn't even supervised by him.

      to Littlegen --> very true.

      Littlegen wrote: Wanna know how I reconcile it? I treat it like Dragon Ball GT.

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    • Ryanq214 wrote:

      LaughingLyon wrote: Delivering the killing blow seems to be enough and to be frank for whatever reason(Jougan) Boruto did more than the Kage if we’re being totally honest

      Boruto didn't do more, the kage were actually fighting kinshiki and momoshiki before momoshiki absorbed kinshiki. They almost caught kinshiki and would have beaten momoshiki if it had kept going like that. The only reason he could even move when the other's couldn't is because he wasn't in the fighting group that got paralyzed.

      Also the Jougan is just something the new writers like to use as an excuse to make boruto stronger than he actually is, something absolutely never seen before that came from nowhere. There is no real reason for Boruto to have this, he doesn't have anything that wasn't together at one time--such as the combination of uzumkai and hyuga bloodlines. Neither Kaguay or her sons had anything like it.

      Absolutely no doujutsu from the original creator could make boruto able to land a hit on Momoshiki like that--not the byakugan, rinnegan, sharingan, MS, or EMS. Boruto was losing to gennin/chunnin the day before but somehow this eye magically makes him fast enough to do taijutsu with someone that was knocking out Kage before most of them could react. That is absolute BS


      have you ever thought if this little thing called, a Mutation. the uzumaki and hyuga may have descended from kaguya but their DNA has changed so when the DNA's were united again it resulted in a new dojutsu

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    • Actionmanrandell wrote: have you ever thought if this little thing called, a Mutation. the uzumaki and hyuga may have descended from kaguya but their DNA has changed so when the DNA's were united again it resulted in a new dojutsu

      Well considering this is an ainme, we can't just apply real world logic/science to it unless they do. The naruto world has never mentioned anything like a mutation in someone's gene's or bloodline.

      If genetics worked in naruto like it did in the real world then all of the major clans like the uchiha, hyuga, an so on would be full of deformed mentally challenged people because of all the inbreeding.

      Also their DNA would be much weaker than the first generation of the clan, as they have no doubt been watered down since kaguya and hagoromo.

      I read that to make a rinnegan you actually need the recombination of Indra and Ashura chakra along with senju and uchiha DNA. So the chakra itself matter, but putting it all back together again would just make the same thing. Just like Senju and Uchiha DNA combined together with Indra and Ashura DNA made the rinnegan--which it originally came from, and not something new. There are no mutation in that world

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    • Considering Hyuuga and Uzumaki/Senju have never been together without additional DNA there is no reason it cant create something new.

      Much like how Hamura eventually unlocked the Tenseigan, which Kaguya never had. Its likely he developed this ability because he didnt have a Rinnegan/Rinnesharingan, allowing his Byakugan to change and evolve.

      The series also has a precedent for mutations.

      • Kaguya's Rinnesharingan became Hagoromo's Rinnegan which became Indra's Sharingan which further mutated into the Mangekyou. Sasuke later got a Rinnegan that could work in tandem with his Sharingan and Mangekyou. It could even be argued that every Mangekyou is minor mutation as each pair has unique patterns and abilities.
      • Hamura inherited the Byakugan from Kaguya but his evolved into a Tenseigan and hers didnt. His descendants' Byakugan were unable to become Tenseigan without both bloodlines coming together in some way, so there is a mutation there.
      • Kaguya's Ash Bone is said to be the origin of Kimimaru's KG but it doesnt have some of the redonculous abilities Ash Bone does.

      Its prefectly within reason that inprecedented combination of genes would push evolution in a different direction.

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    • Ryanq214 wrote: Well considering this is an ainme, we can't just apply real world logic/science to it unless they do. The naruto world has never mentioned anything like a mutation in someone's gene's or bloodline.

      If genetics worked in naruto like it did in the real world then all of the major clans like the uchiha, hyuga, an so on would be full of deformed mentally challenged people because of all the inbreeding.

      Also their DNA would be much weaker than the first generation of the clan, as they have no doubt been watered down since kaguya and hagoromo.

      I read that to make a rinnegan you actually need the recombination of Indra and Ashura chakra along with senju and uchiha DNA. So the chakra itself matter, but putting it all back together again would just make the same thing. Just like Senju and Uchiha DNA combined together with Indra and Ashura DNA made the rinnegan--which it originally came from, and not something new. There are no mutation in that world

      ^nothing actually suggest that clans didn't marry outside the clan like you are claiming. It's very clear that Clans had alliances with each other and in order to strengthen these ties they use to marry members to strengthen Partnership. A good example would be Uzumaki's and Senju. In fact i would argue that Senju had several kinds of jutsu thanks to this gene diversity. Another example would be Haku's mother marrying normal humans to hide her ninja heritage. You get the idea
      As for clans dying out or going insane we do have few examples of them. do you remember Kaguya clan and their bloodthirstiness? Or Chinoike clan of Ketsuryugan?
      As for mutation argument you are wrong. If i remember correctly there are few examples like Kimimaro, Hamura Otsutsuki, Hashirama's wood release, And most of the KKG users(the ones revolving around elemental release like Typhoon release, Lava style and so on).

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    • Naruto is weak

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    • PIS (Plot Induced Stupidity) is a thing and is quite popular in manga and anime alike (Look at how Momoshiki didn't absorb Sasuke or Naruto's chakra or larger techniques). Also, you have to introduce the Jougan some way, even if it did come out of nowhere, we'll learn more about it later on (as the creator said). Just because something was introduced without an immediate explanation doesn't mean its an instant asspull, especially when we were directly told that it will be explained in the future. People just love to complain about stuff they disagree with or don't like.

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    • There is a narrative reason as we don't know what the Jogan as it is a seemingly new Doujutsu. But that doesn't excuse them for not defining it for so long. Doujutsu do work similarly in the most basic sense, pour Chakra into your eyes. We've seen Mangekyo Sharingan users take to their unique powers naturally, innately understanding how their techniques should work and then refining their control over said power. We should have scenes of Sasuke, Hinata, or even Naruto working with Boruto to figure out the eye's powers and limits.

      If the powers suddenly activate in a life or death as a solution situation it is going to feel like an asspull. The Sharigan has the excuse of the eye reacting to strong negative emotions through chemical reactions in the brain so they can't just keep reusing it.

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    • LegionZero wrote: Considering Hyuuga and Uzumaki/Senju have never been together without additional DNA there is no reason it can’t create something new.

      Much like how Hamura eventually unlocked the Tenseigan, which Kaguya never had. Its likely he developed this ability because he didnt have a Rinnegan/Rinnesharingan, allowing his Byakugan to change and evolve.

      The series also has a precedent for mutations.

      • Kaguya's Rinnesharingan became Hagoromo's Rinnegan which became Indra's Sharingan which further mutated into the Mangekyou. Sasuke later got a Rinnegan that could work in tandem with his Sharingan and Mangekyou. It could even be argued that every Mangekyou is minor mutation as each pair has unique patterns and abilities.
      • Hamura inherited the Byakugan from Kaguya but his evolved into a Tenseigan and hers didnt. His descendants' Byakugan were unable to become Tenseigan without both bloodlines coming together in some way, so there is a mutation there.
      • Kaguya's Ash Bone is said to be the origin of Kimimaru's KG but it doesnt have some of the redonculous abilities Ash Bone does.

      Its prefectly within reason that inprecedented combination of genes would push evolution in a different direction.


      Except all ninja related DNA and abilities come's from one point --Kaguya. She is the source of all of it. Everything that Boruto had in him Kaguya had. Any major doujinshi’s were re-made with the combination of specific chakra’s. The rinnegan is made in madara because of the re-combination of Indra’s and Ashura’s chakra.

      And the tenseigan wasn’t a mutation, but by re-combing all of Hamura’s chakra (or both sides) it returned to his doujutsu. Kaguya’s doujutsu was beyond the tenseigan.

      Kaguya had the highest abilities, everything else is a “watered” down or weaker version. Kaguya’s rinnesharingan became a weaker or “watered down” version in Hagormo becoming the rinnegan. Hagormor didn’t have all of kaguya’s abilities. It is safe to assume the tenseigan is a weaker version of kaguya’s, but it is a higher form of the byakugan that Hamura “evolved” it into—much like the mangekyo is an evolved version of the sharingan.

      On that note the mangekyo isn’t a mutation of the sharingan, it is more of an evolved state closer to the rinnegan. Also madara’s rinnegan could use his mangekyo abilities, he just showed the rinnegan in both eyes.

      There isn’t evolution in this world, it is all about the chakra from the original source –kaguya. Combing some chakra just gets someone closer to the highest point and give them powers closer to what she had.


      Namikazenaruto9 wrote: ^nothing actually suggest that clans didn't marry outside the clan like you are claiming. It's very clear that Clans had alliances with each other and in order to strengthen these ties they use to marry members to strengthen Partnership. A good example would be Uzumaki's and Senju. In fact i would argue that Senju had several kinds of jutsu thanks to this gene diversity. Another example would be Haku's mother marrying normal humans to hide her ninja heritage. You get the idea
      As for clans dying out or going insane we do have few examples of them. do you remember Kaguya clan and their bloodthirstiness? Or Chinoike clan of Ketsuryugan?
      As for mutation argument you are wrong. If i remember correctly there are few examples like Kimimaro, Hamura Otsutsuki, Hashirama's wood release, And most of the KKG users(the ones revolving around elemental release like Typhoon release, Lava style and so on).

      I never said they didn’t marry out, I know that Hashirama’s wife was an uzumaki. But most of them stayed within their clan, like sasuke’s parent’s being both uchiha’s. I think that is normal for all clans in that world.

      The vast majority of KKG are just the ability to combine two or more chakra into a new jutsu (such as wood style and lava). That is not the same as someone randomly getting a new doujutsu.


      Princeharris1993 wrote: PIS (Plot Induced Stupidity) is a thing and is quite popular in manga and anime alike (Look at how Momoshiki didn't absorb Sasuke or Naruto's chakra or larger techniques). Also, you have to introduce the Jougan some way, even if it did come out of nowhere, we'll learn more about it later on (as the creator said). Just because something was introduced without an immediate explanation doesn't mean its an instant asspull, especially when we were directly told that it will be explained in the future. People just love to complain about stuff they disagree with or don't like.

      I don’t’ “agree” with this new doujutsu because the new writes just made it up out of nowhere to fi their goals, which I have to assume is to kill off an replace Naruto. The new writers like to change a lot of things and rules about that world for their needs.

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    • Sooo your problem is that you think that because Boruto got the Kama and Jougan from landing the killing blow on Momoshiki that it's a what? A move to replace Naruto?

      You need to chill and relax, this sounds like you'll have a problem if anyone stronger than Naruto/Sasuke shows up but either way.

      You can play it off like the writers just made it up out of nowhere because the last time I check that's how stories usually go -> coming up with ideas. Shit you can even say that the appearance of Kaguya was made up out of nowhere just so they could kill and replace Madara as the final boss. What's the difference between that and this?

      Anyways there was already an explanation how Boruto got the mark which shouldn't cause any problems whatsoever. He landed a fatal blow on a god and received something in return for it, nothing wrong with that. It was revealed how Kawaki got his Kama - through SCIENCE! It only took 15 deaths for the creepy dude to transfer his Kama. As for the Jogan it will be explained with time as the author himself said. We already know it's related to the Otsutsuki clan and we already know that Boruto does have a connection to said clan through his Hyuuga heritage. But I will reiterate, it will be explained. If it suddenly appeared in the middle of battle then sure I'd say it was an asspull but no they were literally building (world/lore building) the Jogan up from the very first episode. Think of it as the Sharingan of the Boruto series.


      All you're doing is "assuming" but there was that flashforward but who knows; if Naruto does die in the future then he dies whether it's by a backstab or an epic battle is to be seen. Either way his time has passed the sequel's main character is Boruto not Naruto.

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    • Kadmus Prime wrote: Sooo your problem is that you think that because Boruto got the Kama and Jougan from landing the killing blow on Momoshiki that it's a what? A move to replace Naruto?

      You need to chill and relax, this sounds like you'll have a problem if anyone stronger than Naruto/Sasuke shows up but either way.

      You can play it off like the writers just made it up out of nowhere because the last time I check that's how stories usually go -> coming up with ideas. Shit you can even say that the appearance of Kaguya was made up out of nowhere just so they could kill and replace Madara as the final boss. What's the difference between that and this?

      Anyways there was already an explanation how Boruto got the mark which shouldn't cause any problems whatsoever. He landed a fatal blow on a god and received something in return for it, nothing wrong with that. It was revealed how Kawaki got his Kama - through SCIENCE! It only took 15 deaths for the creepy dude to transfer his Kama. As for the Jogan it will be explained with time as the author himself said. We already know it's related to the Otsutsuki clan and we already know that Boruto does have a connection to said clan through his Hyuuga heritage. But I will reiterate, it will be explained. If it suddenly appeared in the middle of battle then sure I'd say it was an asspull but no they were literally building (world/lore building) the Jogan up from the very first episode. Think of it as the Sharingan of the Boruto series.


      All you're doing is "assuming" but there was that flashforward but who knows; if Naruto does die in the future then he dies whether it's by a backstab or an epic battle is to be seen. Either way his time has passed the sequel's main character is Boruto not Naruto.

      Well first my problem is that Boruto got his kama and the abilities with it when he did the least out of everyone there. All he did was hold the final attack, naruto gave it the power and sasuke set up the hit.

      The other problem I have it that no one (human wise) should surpass naruto and sasuke. They were given power making them strong enough to fight a god. Those two went through a hell of a lot even before that, becoming kage level when they were teenagers.

      They have reached a level beyond any human in history without the ten tails in them. So the talk that boruto can get stronger than them or that this new random guy (jigen) is as strong as naruto is just BS.

      It's just another way the boruto writers are messing up the naruto world. The original creator (kishimoto) created this world, and now the new writers are making their own rules --many of which contradict what was in the original series.

      While we are on that --how did these new bad guys even know about the otsutsuki clan. No one other than madara and black zetsu even knew of their existence before. But somehow these people were able to find out enough about them and study this kama from them, even though naruto and sasuke who have had the most interactions with them only discovered.

      And I know I have covered it before in other posts, but there is nothing that should have given Boruto the Jogan. It didn't exist in any way from kaguya or her descendants, everything that boruto has was in her at the beginning but she didn't have anything like it.

      Hell the Jogan itself is just he new writers making something so he can surpass naruto. Somehow this new eye can activate on it's own, and can make him fast enough to fight momoshiki--even though the day before he was losing to genin. Nothing in the naruto world does that.

      To sum up--my problem is with the new writers messing up kishimoto's work. He created a great story and set that world up in a certain way. The new writers decide they HAVE to make boruto stronger somehow--so they just change things in their favor.

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    • Ryanq214 wrote: -snip-

      But he still landed the final blow, Sasuke didn't have enough power to deal the finishing blow, Naruto couldn't move and the Kage were out of commission. So Boruto was the only person that stood there to do something. Like you said Naruto gave the power and Sasuke set up the hit He still landed the final blow, that's all that matters and he was given a seal in return for killing a god. I don't see how anyone can have a problem with this when they set it up in a way that isn't an asspull.

      See and this is where you make unnecessary problems for yourself. So it's fine if Naruto and Sasuke were given the power to fight a god but not Boruto? Sure they've had a hell of a growth before receiving it but that doesn't mean that no-one will surpass them or there won't be anyone stronger than them Because if the previous MC is just stronger than everyone else and can solve problems easily then it would make for a really boring story "Oh this dude is wreaking chaos and havoc, whatevs Naruto/Sasuke will just 360 no scope YEET the villain out of here and be done with it" Keep that shit to the isekais please where we know the MC will always be the strongest from the beginning. Let this be a lesson whenever there's a strong main character there will always be a strong villain in return or even a stronger villain. And the way I see it for Boruto it's reversed, he gains the power first then the growth later because there's still the Otsutsuki attack that is supposed to happen in the near future.

      I don't know about this talk that you're referring to but I am of the belief the Boruto will get as strong as Naruto and Sasuke if not stronger. Simply by the combination of 1. His potential which in my eyes is more than Sasuke and Naruto combined (this can be applied to others of his generation) 2. His unique Dojutsu and 3. The Kama seal from killing a god. Not because of those alone but a combination of those 3 things. Actually, when you think about it, Boruto is getting the same treatment as Sasuke and Naruto when they were younger... either way. And Jigen being as strong as Naruto remains to be seen, Kawaki already exclaimed the Naruto might be stronger than Jigen so again remains to be seen and I won't doubt it too especially since it's someone whose been dwelling with the powers of a god. It might be BS to you but it really and truly it's not. It's just one of those cases where strong characters just come out of hiding, like Nagato or Obito or Kaguya.

      Can you list these contradictions? I thought Boruto was doing well with continuing with the story and adding on to it.

      Now you see that's the mystery and that requires advancement of the current story hence the term you used, new bad guys.

      Well considering that we know the bare minimum of the Jogan, it's not your call to say that "nothing" would give Boruto the Jogan. And if Toneri knows what it is and Momoshiki can confirm that it's a power from the Otsutsuki clan then I don't see any problem in its plausibility just because the Byakugan/Sharingan was the more dominant hereditary ability. But then again not every day do you see a Psuedo ten-tail Perfect Jinchuriki with the chakra of the SoSP have a child with a Kaguya descendant. Hell who knows, Himawari might even awaken the tenseigan by herself in the future. (that would be fking awesome XD)


      I don't know about the whole "something so he can surpass naruto" but it was definitely created to give Boruto some extra oomph. Aaaand there was something that already did the whole "Somehow this new eye can activate on it's own, and can make him fast enough to fight momoshiki--even though the day before he was losing to genin." It's called Sharingan, last time I checked it made Sasuke fast enough to react to and fight against a Naruto who received a massive speed boost from using some of the Nine-Tails chakra, oh and it activated on it's own too well technically the third tomoe came on its own since the Sharingan was already activated but that's just semantics. I mean, the most basic ability of a Dojutsu is to follow high-speed movement and allowing a person to react to it, Byakugan, Rinnegan, Sharingan, Tenseigan, they all do it so it's no surprise that Boruto . And in the day before he didn't have his Jogan activated.

      The new writers are adding elements to the story they are in charge of. They are in no way messing up Kishimoto's work, they're actually bringing in new mysteries and things for fans to think of. It's no different than the beginning of Naruto, you can even link Jigen to Pain, Kara to Akatsuki, Jogan to Sharingan. Because in the start we knew jack shit about those things. The Boruto writers are literally reusing the same formula as Naruto and I'm sorry but I have to say it - it's a shame that your favoritism is blinding you to see that because let's be real that's what all of this sounds like, from beginning to end "omg there's someone who is on the same (possibly stronger) level of Naruto and Sasuke. THEY'RE RUINING KISHIMOTO'S WORK". Like dude/dudette take a chill pill and think just what if, what if the creator's made Jogan/new characters for story purposes. O.O Shocking right?! Because if Naruto/Sasuke can instantly wipe every new villain that pops up then you're in for a kiddy train ride that just goes around in circles. Stop trying to push this delusion that everything they do is meant to make everyone stronger than Naruto, they've already made sure to directly tell you that Naruto is (possibly) gonna die in the future, whether it's from being weakened by the literal gods that are soon to be coming or because Kawaki unlocked the full power of the mark of a god remains to be seen.

      As I said before Naruto(series) is finished. There's a new focus, a new MC a new series called Boruto.

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    • “Messing up the Naruto world” lol Kishi fucked his world long before anyone else touched it

      If Naruto and Sasuke can get plot device power ups Boruto can too. Hagroromo handed out the mother of all buffs and you( not literally you seeing as I don’t know how you feel about that part) guys ate it up. Most people are only mad that it’s happening to a character you dislike .

      “ Jigen shouldn’t be as strong as Naruto”

      We don’t know that he shouldn’t . We literally know nothing about him or his power. That’s the beauty of new character they can be whatever the hell you want them to be. As for it fitting in to the continuity anything is possible . Jigen could be from another planet /universe with fuck you hax

      “Boruto only has Jogan as a plot device so that he can surpass Naruto and it doesn’t fit in the Lore” And?

      If Tenseigan and the Moon Ōtsusuki can come out of nowhere without having ANY mention in the original manga Jogan can too. In fact, Jogan fits better seeing as Naruto who is basically Ten Tails Jin mated with the Byakugan Princess who has Hamura’s chakra most likely would make something unique. Hell Toneri even has to reach and awaken it in him which is similar to Hagroromo awakening Sasuke’s rinnegan.

      “How does Kara even know about the Ōtsusuki? It doesn’t make sense”

      No reason has been given so saying it doesn’t make sense doesn’t make sense. Again we have NO IDEA who these guys are and where they’re from. It’s too early for us to say what doesn’t fit into the universe.

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    • LaughingLyon wrote: “Messing up the Naruto world” lol Kishi fucked his world long before anyone else touched it

      If Naruto and Sasuke........

      Its not fucking it up when you are the one making it from scratch. He made the world, and kaugya along with her son were part of that world’s history. And those two got the “plot device power ups” specifically to fight a god. The whole show built up to fighting madara and kaguya (then sasuke). They are the biggest threat that world has ever seen. Boruto was just given the kama, but for what? Being the one to land the final hit? Boruto and some of the character of this new generation are just being handed stuff.

      As for Jigen, I refer you back to Naruto being given power to fight a god. Hashirama was the strongest ninja in history before Naruto. He was so strong that the only person to rival him was able to EASILY beat 5 kage at the same time, all of him were considered to be beyond exceptional ninja. Kabuto himself said no one has been born that could match hashirama. When Naruto and sasuke were given power from the sage they far surpassed hashirama’s strength. Hashirama and madara were so strong it was like something out of a fairy tail, they were damn near inhuman. Naruto and sasuke have reached a hight that should be completely unattainable by anyone unless they get power from the sage or the ten tails.

      But now here comes someone no one has ever heard of and he is as strong as that? That is total BS. As Naruto is, he could EASILY beat every enemy in the original series except the ten tail jinchuriki and kaguya.

      Its about the fact that that level of strength is beyond humans.

      The tenseigan and Hamura being on the moon isn’t in the manga buy they were created by kishimoto himself. Also even if we consider Naruto the ten tails jinchuriki –the combination of him and hamura’s chakra isn’t anything new. That was all in Kaugya and she didn’t have the jogan. All doujutsu stem from her, the byakugan obviously. The rinnesharingna rinnegan mangeky sharingan sharingan (in a de-evolution or watered down order). The tenseigan is the closest thing to an exception, as it was a kind of evolved form of the byakugan with hamura’s power.

      As for kara knowing about the Otsusuki --- back to what I said in the previous comment. The only information about the otsusuki clan in the world were on the stone tablet. The only people that could read it were madara and black zetsu. But at this point it wouldn’t surprise me if the new writers give one of the kara members a set of their own rinnegan they made.




      Kadmus Prime wrote: But he still landed the final blow, Sasuke didn't have enough power to deal the finishing blow, Naruto couldn't move and the Kage were out of commission. So Boruto was the only person that stood there to do something. Like you said Naruto gave the power and Sasuke ….……

      ………….

      Except that you said it yourself –naruto and sasuke were specifically given power to fight a god. Bortuo isnt’ fighting a god, he just happened to be in the right place at the right time. Hell if it wasn’t for boruto and his sciene ninja tool, Naruto might not have had to sacrifice himself to protect the village.

      And I’d make a good argument that Naruto and sasuke deserved power like that, they both struggled and fought hard to get to where they were.

      Naruto and sasuke HAVE reached a level of power that should be WELL beyond any human potentional. Let’s circle back to they needed it to fight a GOD. And you can still have a good story that way. For example -- the original series had the land of waves arc with zabuza being the biggest threat. Zabuza and haku were very dangerous to kakashi and team 7, and it was a good story. But if the 3rd hokage or jiraya was there then they could have easily beaten them both. Naruto can’t be everwhere, there can still be challenges for the other characters, as the hokage he will spend the vast majority of his time in the village.

      I don’t think they should have made a boruto anime, kishimito thought the ending was good as it was and didn’t want to keep it going. These writers and anime studio are just trying to squeeze every drop out of this series, just like they did with the fillers in shippuden.


      Read what I said about about comparing Naruto to hashirama’s level of strength. There is no way boruto should ever match that.

      Boruto is absolutely not getting the same treatment as Naruto and sasuke. Those two went through a hell of a lot more than him before the series even started, and they both fought a lot harder to get their skills. Boruto has had things just handed to him.

      As for the Jigen thing—nagato was in the shadows, but he was still known. Obito was pretty much a secret. But neither one of them was anywhere near as strong as Naruto is. And how are you going to compare Jigen to the literal god of that world? Naruto and sasuke are the closest to her strength without the ten tails, and they are only that strong because of the sage of six paths.


      I have seen many contradictions and I won’t list them all, but I can give few examples. First the byakugan – in the original series anyone with the byakugan was born with it and they always had it, they could turn it on and off but they couldn’t make it disappear. In boruto they said that you have to train to develop the byakugan and apparently himawari and make it disappear like the sharingan. Second walking on walls with chakra – in the original series the new ninja didn’t learn about that until after they graduated the academy, and it still took a genius like sasuke (at the age of 12) a few days to learn it. But in boruto all the children can do it halfway through the academy, maybe even before they got in. That is crazy, kids at that age shouldn’t be able to learn that. Maybe geniuses like itachi and kakashi but everyone? They shouldn’t have the capacity to learn it at that age? Third is the fact that the academy takes years (about 4 on average), so the kids get older—you can see pictures of Naruto and sasuke early in the academy where they are clearly younger than we see them in the first episode. But the boruto character look the exact same leaving the acdemy than when they go in. That is just lazy on the part of the writers and creators.

      As for toneri knowing about the Jogan—that is another problem from the new writers. How could he possible know about it? His knowledge has been very limited to what they were taught on the moon and the Jogan has never been seen before. But now he can speak to people in dreams, see things in space (without any eyes), and read the future? No one has been able to see in the future like that, not even kaguya or hagormo. The writers are just trying to set up boruto for everything. There was one prophecy in the original series, and it was vague. Jirya thought it was three different people over time, it’s not like it said “Naruto will solve everything”. They are just trying desperately to one up Naruto/shippuden.

      And I circle back to nothing in boruto has led to the jogan in the past (in kaugya or her children).

      The Jogan is far more of a cheat than the sharingan, and the sharingan doesn’t activate on it’s own. Sasuke isn’t’ just about to take a punch and his sharingan turns on of it’s own accord so he can dodge. The sharingan does greatly increase their perception, enough so sasuke could turn the tide on nauto in their first fight, but Naruto was only so much faster than sasuke. Momoshiki was knocking out kage in one hit and two of them didn’t even have time to react. Boruto was having to cheat to beat genin the day before, but his jogan makes him go from that to being faster than kage? Comparing that difference in the sharingan to the jogan is a HUGE difference. Sasuke in his fight with Naruto wouldn’t have been able to fight against kakashi with his sharingan on, let alone powerful kage. And sasuke was far above the average genine.

      The sharingan maturing into the full 3 tomoe vs turning on it’s own is not sematics. Turning on on it’s own is like if sasuke’s mangekyo sharingan activated and made the Susanoo without him doing it on his own.

      The new writers are changing elements to a pre-existing story to suit their needs. Pain is no where near as strong as Naruto, and his main strength came from the rinnegan—which isn’t even to bridge that gap in strength. It’s not favoritism, its back to contradictions—they could have made a good story using the same “rules” that kishimoto made.

      And you call it favoritism, but I am being realistic to that world’s standard. Compare Naruto and sasuke’s strength to the characters in the original show, how is anyone supposed to match that?

      I have absolutely no “delusion” that they are trying to make everyone stronger than Naruto. But it is clear they are setting up boruto for that, and Jigen is somehow just as strong.

      It should say something that kishimoto was fine leaving the story as it was.

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    • No

      Naruto and Sasuke were GIVEN their Six Paths ability . Neither of them trained for it or did anything besides meeeting the physical prerequisites. Sasuke had Hashi’s cells implanted in him and Naruto had the chakra of the tailed beast.


      Toneri was doing boss shit without eyes in the Last too that’s not an added ability for Boruto. He was projecting himself from the moon and using jutsu while blind.

      Tenseigan took Toneri from being a relatively normal Ōtsusuki with no combat experience ( that we know of) to swapping hands with post 4SWW Naruto for over a hour. Jogan is better than that according to Toneri so expect tomfoolery.

      You can’t dismiss that Boruto’s parent have both been blessed and given power by SOSP and Hamura. That should lead to something unique and it doesn’t break the plot. We’ve never seen Hamura’s and Hagroromo’ chakra combined in history so it makes sense that it’s the first appearance of it.

      I’ve never compared Jogan to sharingan because they obviously don’t follow the same rules. I’ve always compared it to Tenseigan which obviously buffed EVERYTHING about Toneri ( barring durability) and seems to do the same for Boruto.

      I’ve never paid much attention to the rules of the Byakugan so I won’t speak on that but I disagree in the wall walking thing. Boruto and Co have MUCH better schooling than their parent could ever dream of at their age. Most of them know a nature transformation, learned the prerequisites to summoning jutsu and are trained by their parents. Boruto’s generation are benefiting from a true age of peace and it shows in the education they get.

      We don’t know who Jigen is and where he came from and it’s been consistently portrayed by Kishimoto that Ōtsusuki are either in the same tier as him ( Toneri) or stronger than him( Fused Momoshiki).

      Kishimoto also wanted Naruto to be rebooted and written by a different author similar to American comics. Instead we got a continuation where we still can see the characters we grew up with behaving like we knew them. Kishimoto decided to allow the series to continue and selected his personal successor . That’s better than most get.

      I’m not asking you to like Boruto but I think some of your criticism is unfair

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    • LaughingLyon wrote: No

      Naruto and Sasuke were GIVEN their Six Paths ability . Neither of them trained for it or did anything besides meeeting the physical …….

      Yes I know the powers were given to Naruto and sasuke, what I said was basically if anyone has earned it it’s those two. They had both trained hard to get to where they were and both were very driven. At that age they have both already beaten kage level ninja, and Naruto turned the tide of the war by himself. Also sasuke never had hashirama’s cells, I don’t know what you are talking about there. Naruto got some to replace his arm after the war eneded.

      For toneri—First you don’t need eyes to use jutsu. He was definitely using strange abilities, but he wasn’t appearing in dreams, he couldn’t see the future (no one has), and he wasn’t seeing things far off in space. If he is a sensory type then he would be able to roughly knows what’s happing without his eyes. Also It never said it was a through projection, it was probably his real body—he can just do that disappearing trick

      The rinnegan is also an extremely powerful doujutsu, either on par or stronger than the tenseigan. It was the reason that pain was so powerful, but even that wouldn’t make someone with genin abilities (boruto) be able to fight momoshiki. Tonnerie already had his own powers being a otsusuki and a descendant of hamura – he already displayed them so he was already quite powerful. A “realitvely normal otsusuki” is probably far above a normal human/ninja. His clan was direct descendants of hamura with no one else to water down their gene pool.


      Yes we have seen hamura and hagormo chakra together ----in kaugya, she is the source of it all and she is where those two got their chakra. One got her byakugan and one got a weaker rinnehsharingan (rinnegan).

      Any mention I had about the sharingna in answering your reply was only that it came from kaguya like all other doujutsu. The tenseigan is from a pure and strong byakugan with hamura’s chakra. It also doesn’t operate anything like the jogan seems to.

      For the walking on wall you are wrong, ages of peace maker weaker soldiers on stronger ones. Madara said that the ninja’s of today were weak compared to his generation, that’s because his generation grew up in constant war and had to fight and get stronger quick. Boruto’s friends would have the same schooling that their parents had, all of boruto’s friends were taught by their parents – that is why they had technique’s unique to their clan. But as children younger than 8 it is crazy that they could learn that stuff before going into the academy, only absolute geniuses are that good. Itachi, kakashi, maybe boruto If he is a genius like they say (which honestly doesn’t seem like it from the movie). But all of them, no that is them changing the rules.

      Most or all of them wouldn’t have the capacity to learn a nature transformation at that age. Sasuke was a greater genius than orochimaru but it still took him up to a month after he graduated. Naruto would have taken months or more on just that if not for the shadow clone, and that was afte the time skip. Kakashi said it was normal for jonin to know two, jonin are supposed to be the upper end of ninja’s.

      And there’s the fact that they added regular studies to the academy after the war, that would lead to less time for combat and ninja training. That means they would get less ninja schooling than their parents. In an age of peace they aren’t that concerned with dangers as they are in a time of war. For example if they somehow had a warning of another great war in a few years, then they would focus the academy solely on combat.

      The boruto anime has a bad habbit of making the old generation weaker than they should be, and the new one unreasonably stronger. One or two would probably stand out as a genius but not everyone.

      The otsustuki were portrayed as stronger than Toneri for sure, but they are weaker than hokage Naruto and sasuke. Momoshiki could only fight them after absorbing his friend.

      Kishimoto didn’t want to continue it himself, he felt that it was good and he wanted to move on. He passed it onto that studio and one of his helpers from the series. But after that he has had minimal interactions with them.

      I think my criticisms very fair, I think that the writers are messing up a good story/world just to keep it going. I think leaving it after the boruto movie would have been a solid ending overall.

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    • Ryanq214 wrote: Boruto was given his Kama when he used the giant rasengan and beat momoshiki. Even though Boruto did the least in this fight-- he was holding a rasengan made strong enough by naruto and he attacked after sasuke used himself to create the opening. All boruto did was use the jutsu.

      But Momoshiki him this new ability, and it is theorized that you get it from beating a otsutsuki. So how did Kawaki get it? There is no way he was able to beat an otsutsuki, only Sasuke and Naruto has a chance against any of them.

      Kawaki recieved it from another who has the ability to give others the Kam

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    • SlaughterPrince11939 wrote:

      Kawaki recieved it from another who has the ability to give others the Kam

      But then how did this person get the kama? The Otsutsuki each seem to be stronger than the individual kage (other than naruto), and only 4 have been to earth (kaguya, momoshiki and his two allies).

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    • A FANDOM user
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