FANDOM


  • Both alive, can the greatest Raikage compete with the greatest Hokage (can be debated)?

    Third Raikage Feats.

    Took on over ten thousand Shinobi alone for three days before finally collapsing and that was due to exhaustion. He couldn't be harmed by KCM Naruto. Not even the Gyuki, a tailed beast, could harm him. Only his own attack could pierce him and injure him severely.

      Loading editor
    • Hashirama > Madara > Third Raikage.

        Loading editor
    • @Hero

      When was it ever stated that Third Raikage was lesser to Madara? If it's a personal opinion, explain it.

        Loading editor
    • Susano'o would likely be enough to defeat Sandaime after an extended battle. Madara's Magatama nearly penetrated Gaara's and Oonoki's combined defensive barriers, which were a lot bigger than his Susano'o. Its chakra whips were also able to lash through the barriers completely (though the Magatama probably weakened them, it's still rather impressive).

      Sandaime's Nukite would likely damage Susano'o, but I don't see him getting all the way through before it bats him away. Madara's also more than capable of dodging.

      On top of that, Madara's got some decent Genjutsu skill. I'm not sure how well Sandaime would be able to resist that, or even if he could. Granted, he doesn't have very many feats at the moment, but what he did show was the ability to react to high-speed attacks. Even when preoccupied by Mei's lava, he still noticed Raikage charging at him, and successfully parried the blow.

      That is important, and is one of the factors that secures his victory here. Furthermore, his Yasaka's Magatama, which completely drilled through Gaara's sand defense (and almost penetrated Onoki's golem as well), provides a useful offensive attack. Join that with Madara's impressive reflexes, base genjutsu, and ability to rest inside Susanoo, and his victory is almost guaranteed here.

      Madara only has five techniques, but the Raikage has even less. Contrary to popular opinion, speed isn't everything. That's why our Uchiha wins.

        Loading editor
    • @Hero

      The Genjutsu point really sold me on that. Now the question is, does Hashirama have that same Genjutsu capability or an ability that can do more damage than a Tailed Beast such as the Gyuki to even break through his Armor, or do you see the battle drawing out until the 3rd can no longer fight?

        Loading editor
    • LoneNinja wrote: @Hero

      The Genjutsu point really sold me on that. Now the question is, does Hashirama have that same Genjutsu capability or an ability that can do more damage than a Tailed Beast such as the Gyuki to even break through his Armor, or do you see the battle drawing out until the 3rd can no longer fight?

      Add Sage Art Chakra into Hashirama and he could beat The Third. If I remember correctly,Sage Art Wood Release: True Several Thousand Hands was able to keep up with Madara's Perfect Susano'o. I don't think The Third Raikage would be able to keep up. A more interesting fight would be Hiruzen vs The Third Raikage or Double MS Kakashi vs The Third Raikage.

        Loading editor
    • @Hero

      I don't know what you mean by keep up. I doubt those giant forms could move as fast as him. Unless you are referring to strength? In that case, 4th has shown to be able to break Susano'o and he isn't as strong as his father, the third. The only problem that you have so far, is you haven't given a method for Hashirama to break the Armor that even a Tailed Beast capable of a Tailed Beast Bomb, was stated not to be able to break through.

      Originally I was going to do the Sixth Paths of Pein vs Third. But I thought Tendo was going to be a pain in the ass for Third's fighting style.

        Loading editor
    • LoneNinja wrote: @Hero

      I don't know what you mean by keep up. I doubt those giant forms could move as fast as him. Unless you are referring to strength? In that case, 4th has shown to be able to break Susano'o and he isn't as strong as his father, the third. The only problem that you have so far, is you haven't given a method for Hashirama to break the Armor that even a Tailed Beast capable of a Tailed Beast Bomb, was stated not to be able to break through.

      Originally I was going to do the Sixth Paths of Pein vs Third. But I thought Tendo was going to be a pain in the ass for Third's fighting style.

      Hashirama can always use the Wood Dragon. I'm going to use the wiki for this. It states that, After entering Sage Mode, the user creates a wooden statue of titanic proportions; easily able to dwarf a full-sized Kurama, as well as a Complete Body — Susanoo. Thousands of hands originate from the statue's back in countless concentric rows, while its two main hands are clasped, as if in prayer. The statue can serve a variety of purposes in battle, from fighting on the user's behalf to defending and even using other techniques. The sheer size of this technique makes it almost impossible to attack the user. (Chapter 621,Pages 12-14)

      It can also detach its main self from its main arsenal to increase its mobility to adapt to a situation that requires more speed. With its immense strength, it can grab hold of a tailed beast with ease and hold it in place, leaving it unable to move. Hashirama can then use the Hokage-Style Sixty-Year-Old Technique — Kakuan Entering Society with Bliss-Bringing Hands in conjunction with the Wood Human on the statue's head to suppress and remove any direct control over the tailed beast. (Chapter 626,pages 4-7) So if the statue can hold the tailed beast down,then the tailed beast bomb would be deactivated,right?

        Loading editor
    • @Hero

      You misunderstand. I'm talking about the 3rd Raikage's armor. Gyuki couldn't even break through it to harm him. Naruto couldn't break through during the war. Only he, himself could pierce his own armor. I'm asking what firepower does Hashirama got that surpasses a Tailed Beast Bomb or Naruto's Kurama Chakra Mode Rasenshuriken? Because Third could tank those. Does Hashirama have any attack that can break through his armor?

        Loading editor
    • It's not about durability or attack power here, Hashirama's pollen technique could put him to sleep, Hashirama's wood dragons can zap him of his chakra, or even his kakuan technique could zap the 3rds chakra. No chakra equals no raiton armor/boost. Hashirama then only needs to crush him with his Wood Release, not penetrate him with it. Besides,Hashirama handled EMS Madara+Kurama+Perfect Susano'o. And Kurama is stronger than Gyuki.

        Loading editor
    • Why is this even up for debate 😂😂😂😂😂😂

        Loading editor
    • BigVibber wrote: Why is this even up for debate 😂😂😂😂😂😂

      ^This.

      @Lone

      Was it even stated that the Third Raikage tanked a TBB? If not then, it's not a feat. Also, Hashirama was able to catch TBBs and even tank them with his wood release with ease. In terms of the third's speed, yes he is fast, but just as Madara was able to counter A's speed with his jutsu, Hashirama would be able to do the same.

      Not to mention, the Third Raikage got caught by Gaara's sand. So, wood release could do the same.

      Hashirama would win.

        Loading editor
    • Hashirama beats him.Dude wins against Minato tier shinobi tho.

        Loading editor
    • @Ninja of War

      It was stated that Gyuki couldn't harm him at all. This includes Tailed Beast Ball since he indeed has it. Not to mention, he has brushed off Naruto's attacks and Naruto had to outsmart him while he was mindless.

        Loading editor
    • @Lone

      Where is it stated that TBB couldn't harm the third? Didn't Gyuki suggest a TBB would harm the third to Naruto?

      Did you see my other points?

        Loading editor
    • @Ninja of War

      Gyuki wonders if his Tailed Beast Bomb was the cause of his scar, then he realizes it didn't, which means it had no effect on him. And I'm pretty sure Gyuki likes spamming Tailed Beast bombs. It's also stated that no jutsu can harm him except his own, in that very same chapter.

      But @Hero provided a way to put him to sleep. That in my opinion is Hashirama's way to win, since I don't see him winning through a kill shot, nor has Hashirama showncased a more destructive ability that exceeds a Tailed Beast.

        Loading editor
    • Hashirama beats the Third mid-to-high difficulty you people realize that the third is stronger than eight tails the only reason why he stalemate the eight tails was because he was trying to stop its Rampage the eight tails literally said the third used his one finger spear hand and it cut off all of the eight tails Tails so you mean to tell me if the third didn't aim for the eight tails head the eight tails would have been decapitated you people realize the third and hashirama are past top tier level jinchuuriki hashirama is stronger than the nine tails and the Third it's on par with the nine tails yes the third can beat half of Kurama you people saying that the third didn't tank eight tails tailed beast bomb it was implied he did now who told ask the eight tailed how did the third get that scar on his chest the eight tails they said maybe it was my tailed beast bomb this indicates that the eight tails used the eight tailed beast bomb on the 3rd but it didn't have any effect in reality the only real perspective on how the third got that scar was his own Jutsu it was stated inside the manga that the third skin is like still in his flesh is like iron this indicates that his durability is nothing to play with that's is the thirds gimmick his durability it was also stated inside the manga that the third was the only Ninja during his time to survive being transported at the speed of light and people calculated this feat to be equivalent to a nuke hashirama Beats the Third but it's not easily the third fastest speed Advantage he's physically stronger than hashirama he's more durable and hashirama he pass more endurance then hashirama do people love to downplay the third because he's literally top 3 best k a g e it's hashirama Naruto third raikage

        Loading editor
    • I get the armour stuff, but hashirama is too much for him here. Ah he can be restrained with the sage art deity gates, then wood style deep forest bloom to knock him out (poison). Then hashirama has him....pluck his eye out,drown him lol

        Loading editor
    • Jason of the Mangekyou wrote: I get the armour stuff, but hashirama is too much for him here. Ah he can be restrained with the sage art deity gates, then wood style deep forest bloom to knock him out (poison). Then hashirama has him....pluck his eye out,drown him lol

      no hashirama wins high difficulty
        Loading editor
    • High difficulty? i don't see how...tell xD

        Loading editor
    • Jason of the Mangekyou wrote: High difficulty? i don't see how...tell xD

      read what i put third raikage has the speed advantage hes physically more stronger than hashirama he has more endurance then hashirama I said hashirama winds may it's a high difficulty he's not one shotting the Third that shit is out of the question
        Loading editor
    • A guy who struggled to get past a rubber wall isn't going to do much here. Hashirama's knowledge on the third will keep him on alert, aren't a barrage of wooden dragons enough lol. Or what if hashirama emerges a deep forest bloom? what will he do there?

        Loading editor
    • Jason of the Mangekyou wrote: A guy who struggled to get past a rubber wall isn't going to do much here. Hashirama's knowledge on the third will keep him on alert, aren't a barrage of wooden dragons enough lol. Or what if hashirama emerges a deep forest bloom? what will he do there?

      really a rubber ball when he was being manipulated buy k a b u t o
        Loading editor
    • Actually, Hashirama`s Wood Golem (before entering SM) was on par with Madara`s Perfect Susanoo. Several true 1000 hands was used against Kurama + PS.

      Hashirama doesn`t need SM to beat the third raikage. He has plenty of wood style techniques that could catch and overwhelm him. Advent of a World of Flowering Trees would weak him. And i have a hard time imagining him getting passed Deep Forest. It took an army of rasengans to deal with Madara`s version, not even Hashirama`s.Then you have the wood dragons, wood clones, wood branches that can pop out from underground, the wood Golem on par with PS...and then you have Hashirama`s ridiculous healing...No need to get into SM feats...

        Loading editor
    • 3rdRai is Gyuuki level who is far below full Kurama level who Hashirama kept as a pet.

      It is also questionable as to whether 3rdRai can stand up to a TBB, where as Hashirama has a wood golem that can literally catch one from Kurama, smack him in the face with it, and come out of the explosion unscathed.

      Then he was able to stall a Susanoo enhanced Kurama, which is basically like fighting Kurama+Kurama, before activating Sage Mode.

      Based off of Hashirama's feats of raw strength alone, he destroys the 3rd. Like really bad. Really REALLY bad.

        Loading editor
    • Vladosaurus wrote: Actually, Hashirama`s Wood Golem (before entering SM) was on par with Madara`s Perfect Susanoo. Several true 1000 hands was used against Kurama + PS.

      Hashirama doesn`t need SM to beat the third raikage. He has plenty of wood style techniques that could catch and overwhelm him. Advent of a World of Flowering Trees would weak him. And i have a hard time imagining him getting passed Deep Forest. It took an army of rasengans to deal with Madara`s version, not even Hashirama`s.Then you have the wood dragons, wood clones, wood branches that can pop out from underground, the wood Golem on par with PS...and then you have Hashirama`s ridiculous healing...No need to get into SM feats...

      okay we know ive already established hashirama wins mid dif 3rd raikage is still a top 3 kage hes better than minato and tobirama minato needed a biju to become relevant and tobirama is a trash senju
        Loading editor
    • Third Raikage wins this, without intel its impossible to kill him.

        Loading editor
    • Namikazenaruto9 wrote: Third Raikage wins this, without intel its impossible to kill him.

      I love raikage but he can most certainly die who do you think he is a dbz character

        Loading editor
    • Piccolo The Namek God wrote:

      Namikazenaruto9 wrote: Third Raikage wins this, without intel its impossible to kill him.

      I love raikage but he can most certainly die who do you think he is a dbz character

      ^ It's too bad that i love Hashirama too but even than he can't win this fight. He is out matched in everything, Stamina , Power and Defense.
        Loading editor
    • LegionZero wrote: 3rdRai is Gyuuki level who is far below full Kurama level who Hashirama kept as a pet.

      It is also questionable as to whether 3rdRai can stand up to a TBB, where as Hashirama has a wood golem that can literally catch one from Kurama, smack him in the face with it, and come out of the explosion unscathed.

      Then he was able to stall a Susanoo enhanced Kurama, which is basically like fighting Kurama+Kurama, before activating Sage Mode.

      Based off of Hashirama's feats of raw strength alone, he destroys the 3rd. Like really bad. Really REALLY bad.

        Loading editor
    • LegionZero wrote: 3rdRai is Gyuuki level who is far below full Kurama level who Hashirama kept as a pet.

      It is also questionable as to whether 3rdRai can stand up to a TBB, where as Hashirama has a wood golem that can literally catch one from Kurama, smack him in the face with it, and come out of the explosion unscathed.
      Did you factor in the fact that Wood release inhibits biju's abilities? Hashirama's feats against biju aren't noteworthy compared to someone who used Raw power. Not to mention "barehanded". ITs like comparing apples and oranges.

      LegionZero wrote: Then he was able to stall a Susanoo enhanced Kurama, which is basically like fighting Kurama+Kurama, before activating Sage Mode. Based off of Hashirama's feats of raw strength alone, he destroys the 3rd. Like really bad. Really REALLY bad.

      Well we didn't actually see Hashirama survive TBB now did we? Even with insane healing he won't survive that and Raikage survives that without scratch. That is true raw strength. Also if you consider how easily he will break both wood constructs and the awesome speed he possesses Hashirama is in for a fight of his life. Possibly tougher than one with Madara.

        Loading editor
    • Piccolo The Namek God wrote:

      LegionZero wrote: 3rdRai is Gyuuki level who is far below full Kurama level who Hashirama kept as a pet.

      It is also questionable as to whether 3rdRai can stand up to a TBB, where as Hashirama has a wood golem that can literally catch one from Kurama, smack him in the face with it, and come out of the explosion unscathed.

      Then he was able to stall a Susanoo enhanced Kurama, which is basically like fighting Kurama+Kurama, before activating Sage Mode.

      Based off of Hashirama's feats of raw strength alone, he destroys the 3rd. Like really bad. Really REALLY bad.

      ok ok first of all hashirama uses wood style that restraints the tailed beast whereas the Third doesn't need any of that we get it Tasha mama is the god of Shinobi but hashirama is not beating the third easily the third is stronger than the eight tails the third literally in my opinion and my honest opinion he can beat half of Ninetales you people keep thinking that the third stalemate the eight tails so that means he's on eight tails level that's not the case if you read between the lines the eight tails literally said the thirdcan take my blows he also said that the third used his one finger spear hand and it cut off all of the eight tails tails this means if the third really wanted to he could have Kilt the eight tails all the third was trying to do was stop the eight tails Rampage and he succeeded so therefore he is stronger than the 8 Tails nothing in the 8th tails Arsenal could get past the Third armor not even his tailed beast bomb so how the fuck is the third equivalent 2 g y u k i
        Loading editor
    • @NamikazeNaruto9..........what about the deep forest bloom poison? or sage art deity gates, plus wooden dragons to drain his chakra ;_;

        Loading editor
    • LegionZero wrote: 3rdRai is Gyuuki level who is far below full Kurama level who Hashirama kept as a pet.

      It is also questionable as to whether 3rdRai can stand up to a TBB, where as Hashirama has a wood golem that can literally catch one from Kurama, smack him in the face with it, and come out of the explosion unscathed.

      Then he was able to stall a Susanoo enhanced Kurama, which is basically like fighting Kurama+Kurama, before activating Sage Mode.

      Based off of Hashirama's feats of raw strength alone, he destroys the 3rd. Like really bad. Really REALLY bad. Ok first off third is stronger than 8 tails hes rivaling half kurama

      ok first of all hashirama uses wood style that restraints the tailed beast whereas the Third doesn't need any of that we get it Tasha mama is the god of Shinobi but hashirama is not beating the third easily the third is stronger than the eight tails the third literally in my opinion and my honest opinion he can beat half of Ninetales you people keep thinking that the third stalemate the eight tails so that means he's on eight tails level that's not the case if you read between the lines the eight tails literally said the three can take my blows he also said that the third used his one finger spear hand and it cut off all of the eight tails tails this means it's the third really wanted to he could have Kilt the eight tails all the third was trying to do was stop the eight tails Rampage and he succeeded so therefore he is stronger than the 8 Tails nothing in the 8th house Arsenal could get past the Third armor not even his tailed beast bomb so how the fuck is the third equivalent 2 g y u k i
        Loading editor
    • Jason of the Mangekyou wrote: @NamikazeNaruto9..........what about the deep forest bloom poison? or sage art deity gates, plus wooden dragons to drain his chakra ;_;

      I don't see how deity gates can stop this guy won't he just break it with his offense?
      EDIT: Wood release worked really well on Naruto because he had biju which inhibited anything he did. In Raikage's case that's not thw case, already he is very small and fast target but also he can cut the constructs before they are even formed.

        Loading editor
    • If you referring to the laser cirus, well that did nothing to sasuke's skeletal susanoo. Deep forest emergence>>>>>>>>>>>>>>SKELETAL susanooo. Well Alive madara simply broke out, which i find that to be sheer nonsense, but if Madara could then i dont see why not.

        Loading editor
    • Jason of the Mangekyou wrote: If you referring to the laser cirus, well that did nothing to sasuke's skeletal susanoo. Deep forest emergence>>>>>>>>>>>>>>SKELETAL susanooo. Well Alive madara simply broke out, which i find that to be sheer nonsense, but if Madara could then i dont see why not.

      madara broke out of what? Susanoo ? That doesn't seem right.
      Also isn't Darui a tier below Kage level at that time?

        Loading editor
    • Ah xD i was referring to the deity gates, Madara just broke out on his own when he came back alive ;_;

      It's the same tech, no? we saw it's potential, and it's not really forest level

        Loading editor
    • Wood Release is much more durable than regular wood, it tanked a TBB and went toe-to-toe with Madara's PS.

        Loading editor
    • @piccolo: he cut Gyuki's Tails but their final fight was a draw. How is 3rdRai stronger exactly? If he was stronger, he would have won the fight. There is no context to him cutting Gyukis tails. He coulf have cut them BECAUSE Gyuki dodged an attack that would have hit him in a more critical area. He may have cut the tails to defend himself from a tail swipe. Just because ye did it doesnt mean it was some overpowering speedblitz that Gyuki never could have defended himself from or evaded.

      When was it stated that 3rdRai can tank a TBB? There are other ways to not be killed by it.

      Gyuuki struggled to hold down Son Goku and got smacked around a bit by Kokuo. TBM Kurama held down Saikon, Matatabi, the 7-tails, amd then all 5 of them by himself.

      Kurama also was able to match and deflect a combination 5-Bijuu TBB while Gyuki did a whole lot of nothing. Half Kurama far outclasses Gyuki.

      Susanoo cancelles out Wood releases ability to subdue the tailed beasts. Hashirama still fought the equivalent of double full Kurama.

        Loading editor
    • Ninja Of War wrote: Wood Release is much more durable than regular wood, it tanked a TBB and went toe-to-toe with Madara's PS.

      didn't that had something to do with chakra suppression ability? on absorbing biju chakra Hashirama's wood release blooms or something? That isn't happening here.

        Loading editor
    • Nope, that's the wood dragon's ability. Also, wood release reacts to yang chakra, which is 'life energy'. Naruto had yang kurama inside of him, so his chakra affected wood release. Wood release on it's own is extremely durable. It tanked TBB and Susanoo, feats.

        Loading editor
    • If A was no match for Madara I dont see how The third raikage can do anything against hashirama. Sage mode can counter speed and chakra absorption and the flower pollen justsu can negate conventional durability. If this is a bloodlusted hashirama the THird would be stomped with low difficulty. 10/10 wins for hashirama.

        Loading editor
    • Deep forest bloom takes it? ;_;

        Loading editor
    • Lets also remember that Edo 3rdRai has speed comparable to SM Naruto and can have his arm pushed by Naruto as well. While alive he was stronger, but not enough to make him comparable to Hashirama/Madara/Kurama or any of their feats.

        Loading editor
    • Well then again, Naruto was only able to defeate him thanks to the scar he had...does he still have that here? either way i dont see it being helpful since the attack im thinking about will be poison vs 3rd raikage. After he succumbs to the poison he'll be drained of chakra thankss to the wooden dragon'-'/

        Loading editor
    • Naruto beat him by redirecting his own arm at himself. The scar haf nothing to do with it but it does show that being somwhat stronger than SM Naruto level is enough to push/deflect/redirect 3rds physical strength

        Loading editor
    • Oh yah, i remember he can only be injured by his own attacks, so even if Naruto had missed the scar it still would've worked ;-; ...hashirama has SM , but i doubt he'd need to resort to that. Im still hanging on deep forest bloom.

        Loading editor
    • Hashirama beats the third hokage. His wood release technique can overpower third raikage, he can use bringer of darkness technique to blind the third ,worst case he can use sage mode to physically overpower him. True several thousand hands literally went up against multiple kurama bijju bombs and demolished susanoo clad kurama,there is no way third raikage can dodge or tank that. Hashirama also has a sealing technique which he used to restrain Madara,he can use the same against the third. Hashi's taijutsu skill was around Madara level.If Hashirama wood release could protect himself from bijuu bomb then he can protect himself from third raikage's finger attack

        Loading editor
    • Truthseeker.0 wrote: If A was no match for Madara I dont see how The third raikage can do anything against hashirama. Sage mode can counter speed and chakra absorption and the flower pollen justsu can negate conventional durability. If this is a bloodlusted hashirama the THird would be stomped with low difficulty. 10/10 wins for hashirama.

      You should better read which A we are talking about. And that Madara you are talking about was enhanced far beyond his actual prime something stated b Kabuto himself. Sage Mode won't counter necessarily counter his speed. 3rd Raikage is on par with 4th in terms of speed and Minato did struggle against 4th, in comparison Tobirama and their generation are left in dust. Pollen jutsu though an effective AOE can be outrun by fast fighter. Considering how diffusion takes time to effect he could escape easily.

      LegionZero wrote: Lets also remember that Edo 3rdRai has speed comparable to SM Naruto and can have his arm pushed by Naruto as well. While alive he was stronger, but not enough to make him comparable to Hashirama/Madara/Kurama or any of their feats.

      Didn't Naruto use some special tech to guide Raikage's attack? Also already his feats in raw power far outstrip either of the names you mentioned.
      Also isn't this no intel fight? Or are we giving benefit of doubt to Hashirama?
        Loading editor
    • LegionZero wrote: @piccolo: he cut Gyuki's Tails but their final fight was a draw. How is 3rdRai stronger exactly? If he was stronger, he would have won the fight. There is no context to him cutting Gyukis tails. He coulf have cut them BECAUSE Gyuki dodged an attack that would have hit him in a more critical area. He may have cut the tails to defend himself from a tail swipe. Just because ye did it doesnt mean it was some overpowering speedblitz that Gyuki never could have defended himself from or evaded.

      When was it stated that 3rdRai can tank a TBB? There are other ways to not be killed by it.

      Gyuuki struggled to hold down Son Goku and got smacked around a bit by Kokuo. TBM Kurama held down Saikon, Matatabi, the 7-tails, amd then all 5 of them by himself.

      Kurama also was able to match and deflect a combination 5-Bijuu TBB while Gyuki did a whole lot of nothing. Half Kurama far outclasses Gyuki.

      Susanoo cancelles out Wood releases ability to subdue the tailed beasts. Hashirama still fought the equivalent of double full Kurama.

      you make no sense everybody knows gyu Ki is weaker than half of the nine tails but 8 tail is regarded as the second strongest tail beast did you read anything what i said before he was trying to stop to stop 8 tails rampage he wasnt trying to kill gyuki he fought him on even terms than they both collapsed. You probably didnt know this 3rd raikage was the only ninja during his time to survive being transported at the speed of light and don't even say Tsunade did the same thing because she activated a hundred healings Jutsu she weaved signs to survive and this is equivalent to a nuke you are stupid nuke are similar to tail beast bomb so its logical to for 3rd to surive a bijubomb idiot. Face the facts the 3rd couldve kilt gyuki if he really wanted to 3rd raikage would kill half of kurama hes on par with nine tails already thats what you peoole fail to realize
        Loading editor
    • @Namikaze: i dount 3rdRai is as fast as A since SM Maruto was fast enough to counter him. SM Naruto used Rasengan to counter 3rdRai

      @piccolo: Where is it stated or shown that the teleportation is comparable to a nuke? Tsunade survived the teleportation and was shown using 100 healings until after so yea, she survived it. If the 3rdRai was so much stronger than Gyuuki he would been able to knock Gyuki out before exhausting himself. Being stronger doesnt mean that one has to kill the opponant. Haku far outclassed Sasuke and he fought him evenly and then knocked him out with no signs of strain or exhaustion. You need to chill the fuck out with the insults.

        Loading editor
    • LegionZero wrote: @Namikaze: i dount 3rdRai is as fast as A since SM Maruto was fast enough to counter him. SM Naruto used Rasengan to counter 3rdRai

      @piccolo: Where is it stated or shown that the teleportation is comparable to a nuke? Tsunade survived the teleportation and was shown using 100 healings until after so yea, she survived it. If the 3rdRai was so much stronger than Gyuuki he would been able to knock Gyuki out before exhausting himself. Being stronger doesnt mean that one has to kill the opponant. Haku far outclassed Sasuke and he fought him evenly and then knocked him out with no signs of strain or exhaustion. You need to chill the fuck out with the insults.

      Did you read anything i said tsunade weaved handsign 3rd raikage did without handsign thats number one 1. 2 3rd raikage was trying to stop the 8 tails rampage are you people stupid and he succeded.8 tail beast bomb didnt even bypass third armor but his own justu did indicating hell stab > bijudama
        Loading editor
    • @piccolo: stopping the rampage doesnt mean he is stronger. Tunade survived the teleportation before healing herself.

      What chapter was it shown or stated that TBB cant get passed the 3rds lightning armor. If you cant, then it didnt happen, but by all means, dony bother if you are gonna keep being rude

        Loading editor
    • LegionZero wrote: @Namikaze: i dount 3rdRai is as fast as A since SM Maruto was fast enough to counter him. SM Naruto used Rasengan to counter 3rdRai

      SM Naruto didn't counter him. He simply used sensing at extreme to utilize the gap caused by tunnel vision. Also Raikage did dodge Naruto's point blank attacks in Kurama Mode moments before this. So yes he is easily at those speed levels.
        Loading editor
    • Since the lightning armor boosts the users synapses and nervous system it probably counters the effects of tunnel vision and tunnel vision has not been stated or shown to be a problem for Lightning armor users. Naruto flatout said that he was using Sage Modes predictive abilities and speed increase to counter him.

      He didnt dodge point blank Kurama mode attacks either. it wasnt until Naruto fisted him with the Rasenshuriken that he was point blank, Naruto even made a note of this.

        Loading editor
    • fisted ;_;

        Loading editor
    • Lol.

        Loading editor
    • '-'

        Loading editor
    • LegionZero wrote: Since the lightning armor boosts the users synapses and nervous system it probably counters the effects of tunnel vision and tunnel vision has not been stated or shown to be a problem for Lightning armor users. Naruto flatout said that he was using Sage Modes predictive abilities and speed increase to counter him.

      He didnt dodge point blank Kurama mode attacks either. it wasnt until Naruto fisted him with the Rasenshuriken that he was point blank, Naruto even made a note of this.

      Lightning chakra mode was clearly said to not counter the problems of tunnel vision. In fact both Naruto and bendy guy use this flaw.
      He did, he dodged few of naruto's attack before falling for rasenshuriken.

        Loading editor
    • Namikazenaruto9 wrote: Lightning chakra mode was clearly said to not counter the problems of tunnel vision. In fact both Naruto and bendy guy use this flaw.
      .

      No it was not stated or shown anywhere. In fact 4thRai was shown to be fully capable of viewing his surrounding while using his full speed against Minato.

      Namikazenaruto9 wrote:

      He did, he dodged few of naruto's attack before falling for rasenshuriken.

      Niether of those attacks were shown or stated to be point blank. Naruto was stupid far away on his first attempt and the manga shows distance between his chakra arm, the Rasenshuriken and the Raikage.

        Loading editor
    • I think the lightning blade has the tunnel vision effect ;_;

        Loading editor
    • Jason of the Mangekyou wrote: I think the lightning blade has the tunnel vision effect ;_;

      Its the only jutsu in the series stated to have this effect.

        Loading editor
    • And chidori? o.O

        Loading editor
    • Chidori and lightning blade are the same move. Lightning blade is just more potent.

        Loading editor
    • LegionZero wrote: Its the only jutsu in the series stated to have this effect.

      Logically, every similar jutsu suffers the same effect. It's just that the Raikage cloak themselves in lightning so they simply tank whatever people try to counter with.

        Loading editor
    • Rasengan and Rasenshuriken are similar jutsu with very different outcomes, effects, and hazards. The Raikages' cloaks amp their nervous system, making their nerves fire faster. I dont see why this wouldnt include nerves in the eyes

        Loading editor
    • LegionZero wrote: Rasengan and Rasenshuriken are similar jutsu with very different outcomes, effects, and hazards. The Raikages' cloaks amp their nervous system, making their nerves fire faster. I dont see why this wouldnt include nerves in the eyes

      Naruto's Rasengan actually does suffer from the same issue: it's a jutsu full of openings which allows easy counter-attacks. Which is why he almost always has to do other tactics to land it, like restricting his opponent or outplaying them with clones. Plus, clones by themselves grant him the extra vision and reaction he needs to counteract this. Rasenshuriken was similarly nigh-impossible to land.

      Minato fixed these issues by combining speed on every level with sensing capabilities, allowing him to react to any counter attack. FTG itself requires a jutsu like Rasengan to be effective, yet also fixes the issues with Rasengan.

      I'm not saying the Raikage's improved reflexes won't help them. I'm saying that the same issues that plague the Chidori plague their jutsu as well, and they will have to consciously counter-act those. Note that Sasuke exploited the tunnel vision effect against the Raikage by ducking at the last possible moment and striking low. It's the same issue (jutsu is predictable and full of openings, leaving the caster few options to deal with those). But that moment IMHO is also proof that the lightning shield is an essential part of counteracting their issues.

        Loading editor
    • FTG worked perfectly fine without Rasengan long before Minato was around.

      Rasengan and Rasenshuriken have way different advantages and disandvantages. Every jutsu is full of openings and very few jutsu have a guarenteed success of landing.

      Lightning Armor has no stated tunnel vision problem, just because it is similar to other jutsu doesnt mean it has the same advantages or disadvantages. Chidori Nagashi is almost the exact same jutsu and offers almost none of the benefits of Lightning Armor.

      Because Lightning Armor speeds up the nervous system, the nerves in the eyes would be speed up as well, allowing the user to gather more information and send it to the brain faster.

      Sasuke didnt use tunnel vision to his advantage, he was faster than A was anticipating. Your theory is also completely contradicted by the fact that A was able to find Minato even while moving at full speed. He also charged at Madara while having his speed enhanved by Onoki and still managed to whack Muu who was not directly in front of him. 3rd Raikage was also able to keep track of the Rasenshuriken while he was in motion.

        Loading editor
    • Naruto said 3rd Raikage and 4th Raikage were the same speed. He needed Sage Mode to time hitting 3rds arm into his own chest thanks to its extra sensory abilities, as he knew NOTHING he had would be able to beat the 3rd Raikage, only 3rds own tech can beat his bodies armor ability.

        Loading editor
    • Naruto never said they were the same speed.

        Loading editor
    • He says that the Raikage is super fast, and he is also thinking of the 4th Raikage when he says that, and it is showing the 4th from when he was intercepting Naruto from heading to the battle field. He is clearly alluding they are the same speed.

        Loading editor
    • That's not saying they're the same speed. He just said that he realized all Raikage are super fast. So the Third is very fast. But 4th is faster I'm pretty sure

        Loading editor
    • Where did it say 4th was faster? Sounds like speculation to me.

        Loading editor
    • FlatZone wrote: He says that the Raikage is super fast, and he is also thinking of the 4th Raikage when he says that, and it is showing the 4th from when he was intercepting Naruto from heading to the battle field. He is clearly alluding they are the same speed.

      Clearly not because the particular moment Naruto was referencing was 4ths lower speeds that Team Taka was capable of handling fairly well

        Loading editor
    • FlatZone wrote: Where did it say 4th was faster? Sounds like speculation to me.

      I just checked, and you're right. It's not explicitly stated. But the 4th Raikage could match Nine Tail Chakra Mode blow for blow. Whereas Naruto put the Third Raikage on the defensive immediately and hit him with his first few maneuvers

        Loading editor
    • @AsianReaper To be fair, it was a different scenario.Naruto was trying kill the third raikage, and his main stick was the rasenshuriken manipulation to throw him off. Against the 4th Raikage, Naruto was trying just to outpace him.Also the third raikage was an EDO, so he was weaker and maybe slower than his alive state.Not ruling out 4th`s speed being superior, but regardless, even if one is faster than the other, it would be by a small perhaps insemnificant margin.

        Loading editor
    • Raikage wouldnt have been hindered than much by Edo Tensei. They were all near full power and gap between SM and KCM is huge. If Naruto is catching him then i doubt he was the same speed as the 4th.

      Naruto also needed to outpace the 3rd as well in order to dodge and land attacks on him. The situation is the same, the only difference being the presence of a kill shot.

        Loading editor
    • Vladosaurus wrote: @AsianReaper To be fair, it was a different scenario.Naruto was trying kill the third raikage, and his main stick was the rasenshuriken manipulation to throw him off. Against the 4th Raikage, Naruto was trying just to outpace him.Also the third raikage was an EDO, so he was weaker and maybe slower than his alive state.Not ruling out 4th`s speed being superior, but regardless, even if one is faster than the other, it would be by a small perhaps insemnificant margin.

      True. I agree that the difference in speed between the Raikage would be relatively small.

        Loading editor
    • Hashirama. 3rd cannot pierce through his Mokuton Golem which raped the Perfect Susanoo from a stronger Madara.

        Loading editor
    • Natrix Spiritual Cloak Gleam wrote: Hashirama. 3rd cannot pierce through his Mokuton Golem which raped the Perfect Susanoo from a stronger Madara.

      and from where are you bringing this?

        Loading editor
    • Hashirama was beating Madara's Susanoo in thier life-time before gaining EMS. Even EMS Madara thought Golem was too much for him hence he brought the Kyuubi. Edo Hashi fought on par with Perfect Susanoo despite being weaker than alive while Madara stronger than alive, version.


      Madara saw Shinshuusenju for the first time in thier Vote Battle as far as I know.

        Loading editor
    • I mean. If the third has the fire power to kill a tailed beast, I'm pretty sure he has the fire power to destroy a golem made from a wood substance that even regular Rasengan's have shown to be able to break through (Reference Naruto's Shadow Clone destroying the forest created by Madara).

        Loading editor
    • ^That was continuous BB rasengan that required at least 100 clones in multiple rows along with Kurama's chakra, to eventually grind away wood release. Definitely not a "regular rasengan'. However a regular SM rasengan was able to affect the Third though.

        Loading editor
    • No, all it did was hit his arm into himself. Only the Third's One finger Hell Stab can actually hurt him.

        Loading editor
    • Ninja Of War wrote: ^That was continuous BB rasengan that required at least 100 clones in multiple rows along with Kurama's chakra, to eventually grind away wood release. Definitely not a "regular rasengan'. However a regular SM rasengan was able to affect the Third though.

      It didn't effect third. Heck Rasenshuriken in KCM didn't leave scratches. And Wood release was blasted by rasengan barrage/(Rasenshuriken against Madara) clearly showing that it would be taken down easily by third's spear.

        Loading editor
    • Namikazenaruto9 wrote:

      It didn't effect third. Heck Rasenshuriken in KCM didn't leave scratches. And Wood release was blasted by rasengan barrage/(Rasenshuriken against Madara) clearly showing that it would be taken down easily by third's spear.

      Check again, SM rasengan was able to push away the third's arm. Rasenshuriken damaged the third, not by much though but that's not even the point with that jutsu. The rasenshuriken's power is that it damages the chakra network of the victim, severing the connecting pathways of chakra. This permanent damage was obviously negated due to the Third being an edo.

      In terms of wood release, Hashirama's use of it varies quite a bit. His wooden defenses can catch and block a TBB while his wood human technique can block attacks from Madara's Susanoo that can slice mountains. Hashirama's wood release is incredibly durable, it's not regular wood. It's not gonna be taken down easily, even with the third's spear.

        Loading editor
    • Ninja Of War wrote: Check again, SM rasengan was able to push away the third's arm. Rasenshuriken damaged the third, not by much though but that's not even the point with that jutsu. The rasenshuriken's power is that it damages the chakra network of the victim, severing the connecting pathways of chakra. This permanent damage was obviously negated due to the Third being an edo.

      In terms of wood release, Hashirama's use of it varies quite a bit. His wooden defenses can catch and block a TBB while his wood human technique can block attacks from Madara's Susanoo that can slice mountains. Hashirama's wood release is incredibly durable, it's not regular wood. It's not gonna be taken down easily, even with the third's spear.

      Naruto on the very next page clearly says that Rasenshuriken "didn't even leave scratch". I am not sure about scratch , must be that his Edo isn't that durable? Also I doubt that wind component can penetrate that easily. Highest penetrating power for any elemental release is for lightning style and against the lightning armor even chidori barely reaches the skin.
      Hashirama's wood release though impressive has never suffered cutting attacks. in fact in this instance I would say that Raikage's fingers are perfect tool to bring Hashirama a notch down. Just for comparison That same Rasenshuriken (which Raikage tanked easily) completely demolished wood release holding Madara down and damaged Madara.(byy the waay it was used by Hashirama).
        Loading editor
    • ^Clearly from the manga panels, the third was lightly damaged. Regardless of Naruto's comments. Wind trumps lightning, it has the natural advantage, so please give reasons Rasenshuriken won't do internal damage. Lighting release repels lightning release.

      Hashirama's wood release(wood human) caught Madara's Susanoo sword that was able to slice mountains. That's all the evidence there. Rasenshuriken destroyed the wood dragon, which can be destroyed easily if the head is demolished. As I said his wood release varies, some techniques are stronger than others. Furthermore, Rasenshuriken staggered the Third Raikage, enough for him to be bound with the cloth technique.

      What I don't understand is why users compare Hashirama's wood release to regular wood. There is obviously a distinction and wood release itself varies from technique to technique. Claiming there isn't or making 'comparisons' with non-defensive wood release is just plain wrong.

        Loading editor
    • Ninja Of War wrote:

      ^Clearly from the manga panels, the third was lightly damaged. Regardless of Naruto's comments. Wind trumps lightning, it has the natural advantage, so please give reasons Rasenshuriken won't do internal damage. Lighting release repels lightning release.
      power scaling is what really matters. Temari with her wind was able to deflect Sasuke's fire. Also weren't the lines there because of "edo paper stuff"? Plus Rasenshuriken's attack is like tiny little blades hitting the targets. They would have to first overcome Armor and than Raikage's hard body before it reaches chakra pathway. I don't see how tiny little single blade would be capable enough to penetrate if chidori failed.

      Ninja Of War wrote:

      Hashirama's wood release(wood human) caught Madara's Susanoo sword that was able to slice mountains. That's all the evidence there. Rasenshuriken destroyed the wood dragon, which can be destroyed easily if the head is demolished. As I said his wood release varies, some techniques are stronger than others.
      Caught not endure. The sword would have sliced off the golem too. And Rasenshuriken destroyed wood dragon whose head was absorbing MAdara's chakra becoming stronger. This is not the case of head being destroyed. Brute force just broke the dragon.

      Ninja Of War wrote: Furthermore, Rasenshuriken staggered the Third Raikage, enough for him to be bound with the cloth technique. What I don't understand is why users compare Hashirama's wood release to regular wood. There is obviously a distinction and wood release itself varies from technique to technique. Claiming there isn't or making 'comparisons' with non-defensive wood release is just plain wrong.

      Wood dragon isn't regular wood. Rubber cutting attack shouldn't been taken lightly especially when raikage was just using 4 finger assault(or was it 3?). One Finger would easily slice anything. Plus Staggering will happen to observe laws of momentum conservation. to stagger something that ginormous or pinned object is definitely more difficult.
        Loading editor
    • Namikazenaruto9 wrote:

      power scaling is what really matters. Temari with her wind was able to deflect Sasuke's fire. Also weren't the lines there because of "edo paper stuff"? Plus Rasenshuriken's attack is like tiny little blades hitting the targets. They would have to first overcome Armor and than Raikage's hard body before it reaches chakra pathway. I don't see how tiny little single blade would be capable enough to penetrate if chidori failed.

      I do recall that the wind-natured chakra needles created from the rasenshuriken are something like on the 1D nanoscale level. Naturally, these needles would pass right through anything in regular surface layers, i.e. skin.

      Namikazenaruto9 wrote:

      Caught not endure. The sword would have sliced off the golem too. And Rasenshuriken destroyed wood dragon whose head was absorbing MAdara's chakra becoming stronger. This is not the case of head being destroyed. Brute force just broke the dragon.

      Proof for the above statement. Brute force broke a non-defensive technique, via destroying the head. How does that help the Third against Hashirama's defensive techniques?

        Loading editor
    • Ninja Of War wrote:

      I do recall that the wind-natured chakra needles created from the rasenshuriken are something like on the 1D nanoscale level. Naturally, these needles would pass right through anything in regular surface layers, i.e. skin.
      Mind explaining how it passes through armor?

      Ninja Of War wrote: Proof for the above statement. Brute force broke a non-defensive technique, via destroying the head. How does that help the Third against Hashirama's defensive techniques?

      How about proof otherwise? Two Enma was easily able to break the wood used by Hashirama. PS sword>Enma as staff. Also like I said Rasenshuriken didn't break the head. You can check the panel.
        Loading editor
    • ^Armor?

      You mean lighting armor? Wind has the natural advantage. My explanation is paraphrased from Tsunade's.

      Namikazenaruto9 wrote:

      How about proof otherwise? Two Enma was easily able to break the wood used by Hashirama. PS sword>Enma as staff. Also like I said Rasenshuriken didn't break the head. You can check the panel.

      No buddy. That's not how this works. If you state something you prove it, I don't have to prove the converse. Again, that was not a defensive wood release used against Enma, it's not the same. Chapter for Rasenshuriken to wood dragon.

        Loading editor
    • Ninja Of War wrote: ^Armor? You mean lighting armor? Wind has the natural advantage. My explanation is paraphrased from Tsunade's.

      That doesn't mean it can penetrate the armor? the puny blade on its own will never be able to do that.

      Ninja Of War wrote:

      No buddy. That's not how this works. If you state something you prove it, I don't have to prove the converse. Again, that was not a defensive wood release used against Enma, it's not the same. Chapter for Rasenshuriken to wood dragon.

      I don't think so. Weren't you the one first to claim Raikage won't be able to break Hashirama's wood?
      On side-note, There is no exact recount of Hashirama's Golem's durability. But definitely its not durable enough to survive PS swords without a scratch. Even the Tail Beast Bomb argument is somewhat vague since cutting something is not same as catching and throwing the Bomb Back before detonation. Tail Beast bomb scenario is more like someone catching hot iron ball/grenade and throwing it before it explodes. Neither of feats conclusively prove durability. In fact I have no reason to believe that the wood used would be much much more stronger than that used in let say Wood Forest or Dragon. Yes its hard but not by much. I would also point out that during the fights between Madara and Hashirama none of the time, not once Wood Golem's remnants survived till the end suggesting that PS is equally capable of demolishing that structure.
      Edit : for last request about chapter, I think so chapter is 656 shift from pages 4-8.(Regarding Rasenshuriken getting Wood Dragon). Also in chapter 554 Rasenshuriken's limit, on pg 15 Naruto clearly states that the jutsu didn't even leave a scratch. IT's safe to assume that in conjunction the Raikage's hard body and Armor can easily tank attacks at that level.

        Loading editor
    • Namikazenaruto9 wrote:

      I don't think so. Weren't you the one first to claim Raikage won't be able to break Hashirama's wood? Tail Beast bomb scenario is more like someone catching hot iron ball/grenade and throwing it before it explodes. Neither of feats conclusively prove durability. In fact I have no reason to believe that the wood used would be much much more stronger than that used in let say Wood Forest or Dragon.

      Nope, you were the first one to claim such a thing. So please provide proof. Hashirama's wood face wall blocked a TBB exploding point blank, but that is not proof? Deny much?

      It seems you cannot distinguish between a defensive and an offensive wood release technique. Even though it's quite obvious. Madara vs Hashirama was off screened. What does that have to do with the Third though?

        Loading editor
    • Ninja Of War wrote: Nope, you were the first one to claim such a thing. So please provide proof. Hashirama's wood face wall blocked a TBB exploding point blank, but that is not proof? Deny much?

      It seems you cannot distinguish between a defensive and an offensive wood release technique. Even though it's quite obvious. Madara vs Hashirama was off screened. What does that have to do with the Third though?

      Hashirama's wood face wall didn't protect him from exploding TBB. Rather it protected him from aftermath of explosion. Majestic Attire was the one which tanked the brunt of TBB.(read chapter 620 pg 17 to chapter 21 page 5. On page 6 of chapter 621, Hashirama clearly states that he can predict Susanoo sword's movements and adeptly catches the sword. At same time the sword easily chops off the wood construct hands) Also explosion attacks are never the same as cutting attacks. The two require different qualities. ALso I have edited my previous answer.
        Loading editor
    • Namikazenaruto9 wrote: (Regarding Rasenshuriken getting Wood Dragon). Also in chapter 554 Rasenshuriken's limit, on pg 15 Naruto clearly states that the jutsu didn't even leave a scratch. IT's safe to assume that in conjunction the Raikage's hard body and Armor can easily tank attacks at that level.

      No doubt the Third can tank a Rasenshuriken, but he was clearly regardless of Naruto's statement. Panels > Statements. But Rasenshuriken has another power, but that is neither here nor there.

      Namikazenaruto9 wrote:

      Hashirama's wood face wall didn't protect him from exploding TBB. Rather it protected him from aftermath of explosion. Majestic Attire was the one which tanked the brunt of TBB.(read chapter 620 pg 17 to chapter 21 page 5. On page 6 of chapter 621, Hashirama clearly states that he can predict Susanoo sword's movements and adeptly catches the sword. At same time the sword easily chops off the wood construct hands) Also explosion attacks are never the same as cutting attacks. The two require different qualities. ALso I have edited my previous answer.

      And I have been saying that Hashirama's wood release varies power and durability. After reviewing the chapters you stated, it does seem that the wood face blocked the TBB explosion. Yet, the explosion both engulfed Madara and Hashirama. I understand the difference between piercing damage and blunt force but don't you understand the applied durability to defensive techniques?

      P.S. Still waiting for your proof on the statement for the Third.

        Loading editor
    • Ninja Of War wrote:

      No doubt the Third can tank a Rasenshuriken, but he was clearly regardless of Naruto's statement. Panels > Statements. But Rasenshuriken has another power, but that is neither here nor there.
      Which panel are you referring to? ALso this statement is kind of repeated twice with Bendy guy even saying that attacks at Rasenshuriken's level wont effect him. Multiple statements>panel.

      Ninja Of War wrote: And I have been saying that Hashirama's wood release varies power and durability. After reviewing the chapters you stated, it does seem that the wood face blocked the TBB explosion. Yet, the explosion both engulfed Madara and Hashirama. I understand the difference between piercing damage and blunt force but don't you understand the applied durability to defensive techniques?

      P.S. Still waiting for your proof on the statement for the Third.

      Which statement for third? I don't think so I follow you here.
      I am not sure I follow here. So am I wrong in saying that difference being not too much? It would be comparable? And that durability against explosion cannot be same as cutting edge? There is no feat for Hashirama's wood defensive technique withstanding cutting attacks and concentrated ones.
        Loading editor
    • A FANDOM user
        Loading editor
Give Kudos to this message
You've given this message Kudos!
See who gave Kudos to this message