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  • Not sure how nobody made this Vs Thread before, but here we go.

    Sasuke is his latest version, so at the point of the Boruto Manga.

    Kakashi is during the fight with Kaguya when he acquired DMS.

    They can obviously use any ability that they displayed.

    Keep in mind that they can't fight forever and that they have exhaustion levels, namely if Sasuke uses his rinnegan too much and that Kakashi can't keep his DMS forever because of Obito's spirit. Saying that, Kakashi can keep his DMS up for more than 5 minutes, despite his limit during Kaguya's fight.

    They obviously know about each other's ability.

    They fight in Kaguya's last dimension, so its open grounded.

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    • The whole Kaguya fight in general just confuses my understanding of DMS Kakashi's abilities.

      Like, he managed to nearly cut one of her arms off by just making a beeline for her, and she couldn't react in time. Now, normally I'd chalk that up to just pure surprise that she didn't react in time (sort of like Naruto's distraction allowing him to land a punch).

      But Sasuke has literally teleported right behind her, and still couldn't catch her.

      So is Kakashi much faster than Sasuke? hard to tell because it's just one feat that Kakashi has on Sasuke.

      If speed and strength was more or less equal due to Kakashi having Six Paths chakra, it comes down to who uses their abilities the best.

      I'd say DMS Kakashi is would beat 4SSWR Sasuke, due to more experience and (probably) more powerful attack speed/strength. But Adult Sasuke would either tie or beat DMS Kakashi due to gaining more experience to match or exceed Kakashi's, as well as naturally growing in terms of abilities.

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    • See that's where this gets trippy. . Naruto actually stated that Kakashi's powers were even better than Sasuke's. He has terrible chakra reserves. Kakashi's powers while on par with Sasuke don't last very long. I'd say maybe 30 seconds. I feel like Sasuke can hold out that long but that's just my opinion. Also I'm almost certain that Kaguya was caught off-guard. Because Sasuke explicitly stated that they needed to distract her before Kakashi resurrected that move. Also after that move black zetsu stated that they were distracted by focusing too much on Naruto and Sasuke. However, had Obito had these powers, I'd give it to Obito because his chakra reserves are haxed. He already has large chakra reserves as an Uchiha and has Hashi cells hax.

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    • What evidence is there to say that DMS Kakashi has a time limit? From what I gathered, Obito simply left Kakashi's body because the threat has been dealt with.

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    • @UltimaDude

      Considering chakra is not infinite, there is a limit. We don't know what that limit is exactly which is exactly why I don't like people using DMS Kakashi because it was a very temporary mode that we'll never see again.

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    • Another thing to point out is that the fact that Sakura being able to hit Kaguya in the first place shows that Kakashi's susanoo had faded away. The only reason Kakashi could jump out of the Susanoo was cuz of the intangibility that he received from Obito. And I highly doubt he would release that Susanoo and put Sakura at risk considering he explicitly told Sakura to stay out of the fight at the beginning of the battle. That's just my opinion anyway.

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    • Well about that Kaguya cut , it's still unclear to me.

      Since in Manga it looks like he charge from above and blitz , while in Anime he is just casually falling and getting her cut.

      So question is , did she got fooled by Kamui or was his speed responsible for cut , i really don't know.

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    • I would go with she got fooled. Cuz remember she was scared of being sealed away. Therefore her main focus was on Naruto and Sasuke. The only reason Sasuke or even a non-god level shinobi with at least instantaneous speed can beat Kakashi DMS IMO. They just need to avoid him for some time and then its their victory. However, there are VERY few shinobi(like maybe 3 or 4) who can move that fast. So Kakashi in this form would one-shot most shinobi with one move.

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    • Look at the speed that the bone that hit Naruto's clone was vs the bone that went flying at Kakashi. Naruto's bone was so quick he looked down and was already disintegrating. It was a gigantic difference, because that was when Kaguya was turned into a jobber. She was forced into losing quickly. Again, that should be incredibly obvious given Kakashi and Obito were somehow able to sprint a good 50 yards yet Naruto and Sasuke could barely move. I don't have to try hard at all, it's right there lol.it still bothers me that just a fraction of rikudou chakra boosted Kakashi's speed to the point where he can land a strike on a powered up kaguya without difficulty . Something naruto & sasuke couldn't do, despite acquiring chakra from the sage.

      Eyes:

      Rinnegan is more versatile, but Kamui makes most of it moot. Kakashi utilizes his abilities faster than Sasuke so that's a plus as well. The Genjutsu argument is debatable, but it is also another definite advantage Sasuke has. Though in Kakashi's defense Obito's eyes are insane, with one he genjutsu'd Kurama (albiet weakend from the seal) and was able to control a perfect jin (I speculate he had control of the biju beforehand), his genjutsu should be on a similar level with Sasuke's theoretically since before said amp he was only good enough to use it as a diversion and probing info. Still even if used as a ploy that can cost him here but I doubt he's going to have time mid-battle though I don't think it's anywhere near a oneshot move. Sasuke here.

      Skill: What every battle in this verse amounts to when you've got opponents this close in power, all comes down to raw utilization. IMO Kakashi makes use of his abilities more effectively and his use of trail-and-error is much less endangering, whilst Sasuke although skilled can be prideful and rush in without hesitation im not saying his analyzation is bad but Kakashi's is more evident and almost unmatched within the series. If it came down to a battle of who checkmates whom than I'd back Kakashi.

      Those being the main things to consider here IMO. A stomp is out of the question for either sides, not even close. Now,Sasuke can just use Limbo as a diversion to him and distract him by the Limbo taking hits on him. Sasuke then teleports through his rinnegan and boom,Kakashi's dead. Sasuke wins here. P.S: Since Kakashi is not Uchiha,he won't be able to handle the Sharingan very well which leaves Sasuke at an advantage. Also,Kakashi's chakra is drained very easily which also leaves Sasuke at an advantage.

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    • Sasuke doesn't have Limbo. That's Madara's unique rinnegan ability.

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    • UltimaDude wrote: What evidence is there to say that DMS Kakashi has a time limit? From what I gathered, Obito simply left Kakashi's body because the threat has been dealt with.

      He could've given Kakashi perpetual power. Kakashi also was shown having a serious drawback to the point he could barely move.

      So, a limit exists. We don't know the exact limit (in a sense, Kakashi would simply become an Edo Tensei at some point), but a limit exists.

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    • Vladosaurus wrote: Sasuke doesn't have Limbo. That's Madara's unique rinnegan ability.

      Oh yeah. Either way,Sasuke wins.

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    • AsianReaper wrote: The whole Kaguya fight in general just confuses my understanding of DMS Kakashi's abilities.

      Like, he managed to nearly cut one of her arms off by just making a beeline for her, and she couldn't react in time. Now, normally I'd chalk that up to just pure surprise that she didn't react in time (sort of like Naruto's distraction allowing him to land a punch).
      Didn't Kakashi phase through her All killing Ash bones moments before using Kamui-Raikiri?

      AsianReaper wrote: But Sasuke has literally teleported right behind her, and still couldn't catch her. So is Kakashi much faster than Sasuke? hard to tell because it's just one feat that Kakashi has on Sasuke.

      If speed and strength was more or less equal due to Kakashi having Six Paths chakra, it comes down to who uses their abilities the best.
      What's the point of teleporting right behind her when she has Byakugan. How is it better than Naruto trying to land hits using his Dimension filling Multi Shadow clones?
      Also fast or not Kakashi would easily phase through most of Sasuke's Attack.

      Lastly I feel that this should be win for Kakashi no matter how you slice it. No amount of improvement in Sasuke would help him against DMS KAkashi.

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    • Rachin123 wrote: Considering chakra is not infinite, there is a limit. We don't know what that limit is exactly which is exactly why I don't like people using DMS Kakashi because it was a very temporary mode that we'll never see again.

      Of course there's a limit to what DMS Kakashi can do, that goes without saying. But you can't just assume that it's a time limit. I don't see the problem with using DMS Kakashi, it's a distinguished version of Kakashi. It's no different than using Juubito or TTJ-Madara.

      Thekillman wrote: He could've given Kakashi perpetual power. Kakashi also was shown having a serious drawback to the point he could barely move.

      So, a limit exists. We don't know the exact limit (in a sense, Kakashi would simply become an Edo Tensei at some point), but a limit exists.

      Kakashi barely being able to move was after Obito's spirit left his body. When Obito's spirit was inhabiting Kakashi's body, Kakashi felt no symptoms of exhaustion despite whipping out, presumably, chakra-taxing jutsus.

      Like I said above, of course DMS Kakashi has a limit, that goes without saying. But I still don't understand why it's assume that the limit is a time limit when Obito left Kakashi's body after the threat has been dealt with

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    • UltimaDude wrote: Kakashi barely being able to move was after Obito's spirit left his body. When Obito's spirit was inhabiting Kakashi's body, Kakashi felt no symptoms of exhaustion despite whipping out, presumably, chakra-taxing jutsus.

      Like I said above, of course DMS Kakashi has a limit, that goes without saying. But I still don't understand why it's assume that the limit is a time limit when Obito left Kakashi's body after the threat has been dealt with

      I did mean Kakashi was weak after Obito leaving his body. While Obito is possessing him he's essentially a voluntary Edo Tensei / Jinchuriki, and we know that Edo's regenerate chakra and feel no fatigue or pain. But it seems to me that after a while, the backlash of Obito leaving would simply kill Kakashi. In other words, it's a time limit, but in the nature that after a while the process is irreversible (or at least, without Kakashi dying).

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    • Thekillman wrote: I did mean Kakashi was weak after Obito leaving his body. While Obito is possessing him he's essentially a voluntary Edo Tensei / Jinchuriki, and we know that Edo's regenerate chakra and feel no fatigue or pain. But it seems to me that after a while, the backlash of Obito leaving would simply kill Kakashi. In other words, it's a time limit, but in the nature that after a while the process is irreversible (or at least, without Kakashi dying).

      Oh, I see what you mean now. I was just thnking that too. But the moment Obito leaves his body, Kakashi will no longer become DMS kakashi. So I believe whatever happens at that point is irrelevant

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    • So basically, Kakashi has a time limit while Sasuke has shown to last for a whole day against Naruto.

      I wonder how a Susanoo against Susanoo fight will be like. Considering everything, both of them might be equally strong in Susanoo, or maybe Sasuke's susanoo is stronger, considering it's made half of the Sage's pure six paths chakra. Though Kakashi's Susanoo looks cooler, as Naruto has said.

      I wish to think that they will start by a taijutsu match, which kinda is unlikely, considering Kakashi can't waste time here, but if they did, then Kakashi might implement his Kamui into it, becoming intangible like Obito, Sasuke won't be able to touch him, like everyone else. But couldn't he teleport to the Kamui dimension? Or just send a clone to there?

      Either way, I think Sasuke wins this.

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    • BlazeRelease wrote: I wonder how a Susanoo against Susanoo fight will be like. Considering everything, both of them might be equally strong in Susanoo, or maybe Sasuke's susanoo is stronger, considering it's made half of the Sage's pure six paths chakra. Though Kakashi's Susanoo looks cooler, as Naruto has said.

      Kakashi's is stronger. Amaterasu isn't terribly effective against Kamui,but Kamui IS terribly effective against Amaterasu. If they were to exchange attacks with Perfect Susanoo, Kakashi would definitely come out on top

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    • Kamui Shurikens would easily demolish Sasuke Susanoo.

      But wait is Sasuke able to Teleport with Ameno whole Susano , like he did against Naruto ?

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    • Thekillman wrote: Kakashi's is stronger. Amaterasu isn't terribly effective against Kamui,but Kamui IS terribly effective against Amaterasu. If they were to exchange attacks with Perfect Susanoo, Kakashi would definitely come out on top

      I was commenting on the overall strength of their Susanoo. Not the Jutsus. Indeed, Kakashi's Kamui is effective against Sasuke's susanoo. But the latter can escape with ameno, plus, it's mostly gonna be an airiel fight, so Sasuke will obviously try to dodge those Kamui shurikens.

      But there's this thing, it's obvious that Sasuke can throw more of his shurikens at Kakashi than Kakashi at Sasuke. Sasuke does have the overall superiority in chakra and stamina. Basically, this fight can go as who lasts longer, and we know who can.

      There are also other jutsus for Sasuke, the Rinnegen techs, and superior genjutsu...

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    • I mentioned that Kakashi can keep his DMS longer than he did vs Kaguya, because otherwise it's pretty clear that he has no chance against Sasuke in 5 minutes (at best) or less.

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    • Vladosaurus wrote: I mentioned that Kakashi can keep his DMS longer than he did vs Kaguya, because otherwise it's pretty clear that he has no chance against Sasuke in 5 minutes (at best) or less.

      To be honest, how long? Can we imagine it to be long enough? Cause Sasuke has crazy stamina, like fighting Naruto for a whole day.

      Sasuke still has Rinnegn techniques, two teleportation jutsu, superior genjutsu, and such.

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    • Can't really estimate how long. Sasuke fought Naruto for a day but after he used his Bijuu powers from the 9 tailed beasts that he captured. So even if Sasuke wouldn't last for a whole day, Kakashi would still lose to him if he loses his DMS too early. That's why i increased his usage time to more than what he displayed vs Kaguya, but i can't really estimate ho much he can keep it on so that he can have a chance.

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    • I think so the time duration of DMS with Kaguya could be enough to get Sasuke in my opinion. Sasuke can't do anything about his Kakashi's attack while he simply sees his attack becoming in-effective.

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    • Well, Sasuke could teleport behind Kakashi and hit him with a chidori like he did with Naruto. And unlike Naruto, Kakashi has neither awareness of what's around him, neither Naruto's durability.Not even close actually.His sharingan acts on only what he sees. And we are not talking about a simple chidori, but a six paths chidori.

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    • AsianReaper wrote: The whole Kaguya fight in general just confuses my understanding of DMS Kakashi's abilities.

      Like, he managed to nearly cut one of her arms off by just making a beeline for her, and she couldn't react in time. Now, normally I'd chalk that up to just pure surprise that she didn't react in time (sort of like Naruto's distraction allowing him to land a punch).

      But Sasuke has literally teleported right behind her, and still couldn't catch her.

      So is Kakashi much faster than Sasuke? hard to tell because it's just one feat that Kakashi has on Sasuke.

      If speed and strength was more or less equal due to Kakashi having Six Paths chakra, it comes down to who uses their abilities the best.

      I'd say DMS Kakashi is would beat 4SSWR Sasuke, due to more experience and (probably) more powerful attack speed/strength. But Adult Sasuke would either tie or beat DMS Kakashi due to gaining more experience to match or exceed Kakashi's, as well as naturally growing in terms of abilities.

      Not sure if anyone answered this particular question but I think the Raikiri speed amp is was what made it hard for Kaguya to react.

      I would give this to Sasuke but Kakashi is literally untouchable because of Kamui. Obito could have wrecked the entire shinobi alliance because of his hax phasing abilities and was only held back by the fact that Kakashi had had the other eye.

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    • Hmmm. I think Obito only gave Kakashi his powers. Not his chakra stamina. That's why I think Kakashi got drained so quickly(couple minutes if not seconds), not because Obito took his powers back, but because Kakashi genuinely has average chakra-reserves. I will say this though, had it not been for Kakashi's chakra reserves he definitely would be able to beat Sasuke.

      Vladosaurus wrote: I mentioned that Kakashi can keep his DMS longer than he did vs Kaguya, because otherwise it's pretty clear that he has no chance against Sasuke in 5 minutes (at best) or less.

      I'd say less than 5 minutes. I'd actually go as far as to say a couple seconds

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    • Quadraticequation wrote: Hmmm. I think Obito only gave Kakashi his powers. Not his chakra stamina. That's why I think Kakashi got drained so quickly(couple minutes if not seconds), not because Obito took his powers back, but because Kakashi genuinely has average chakra-reserves.

      Kakashi's limit is several chidori. Three Kamui or so drain his chakra immensely. Yet in the fight against kaguya, he formed a massive susanoo, made two Kamui shuriken, then Kamui'd himself against the death bones and even did a Kamui raikiri.

      In other words, there's a snowball's chance in hell that it was his own chakra. Spirits can transfer chakra. In fact, Kakashi was essentially an Edo Tensei. I also don't see why kakashi would collapse and show immense signs of fatigue despite seconds prior being totally fine.

      So no, Obito gave him chakra.

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    • I don’t think Obito gave him his chakra. But rather Sharingan which was previously made stronger by Obito chakra. I think this would put more of a strain of Kakashi reducing his time in this form. Cuz his chakra would drain way too quickly.

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    • This confusion is exactly why I don't like using DMS Kakashi in versus battle. It's same with Prime Hiruzen in a sense.

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    • @Rachin

      Me neither. Especially prime Hiruzen because we don’t actually know what that is.

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    • Quadraticequation wrote: I don’t think Obito gave him his chakra. But rather Sharingan which was previously made stronger by Obito chakra. I think this would put more of a strain of Kakashi reducing his time in this form.

      Kakashi's normal MS already put a massive strain on him, to the point he could only use it a few times. I don't see Kakashi using DMS like that, especially with a perfect Susanoo, without a massive chakra boost. I don't see anyone creating a Susanoo without massive chakra reserves to back it up.

      More powerful chakra results in a greater effective chakra pool, sure, but there logically should be a minimum amount of chakra to make a certain jutsu. Can't make a 100m chakra samurai with the chakra for a normal Rasengan.

      Rachin123 wrote: This confusion is exactly why I don't like using DMS Kakashi in versus battle. It's same with Prime Hiruzen in a sense.

      True, it feels pretty pointless without more context. But it seems extremely weird that after Dan gave Tsunade chakra, and considering what we know of both Edo Tensei and Jinchuriki, that Obito wouldn't do similar things. That is, give Kakashi access to ALL his power (Edo Tensei), chakra (Edo Tensei/Jinchuriki), and help him out (Jinchuriki). He would be able to freely transfer chakra (Dan's spirit form), be that infinite (Edo Tensei) or not (own reserves).

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    • Since he got it from Obito and he had some rikudou chakra,won't Kakashi get a fraction of Obito's remnant leftover rikudou chakra?

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    • Rachin123 wrote: This confusion is exactly why I don't like using DMS Kakashi in versus battle. It's same with Prime Hiruzen in a sense.

      true man


      HeroOfSacrifice wrote: Since he got it from Obito and he had some rikudou chakra,won't Kakashi get a fraction of Obito's remnant leftover rikudou chakra?

      Obito was essentially inhabiting his body like an Edo Tensei spirit. indeed Kakashi is going to get Obito's Six Paths Chakra.

      Kakashi was simply like an Edo body, while all the skills, the DMS and Kamui and Six Paths CHakra was from Obito. Kakashi simply used the power.

      apart from Raikiri at that point nothing of the skills he showed were his

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    • I’m honestly not sure man. I do feel like DMS Kakashi is overrated at times. But I might be wrong

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    • Nashikeine wrote:

      Rachin123 wrote: This confusion is exactly why I don't like using DMS Kakashi in versus battle. It's same with Prime Hiruzen in a sense.

      true man


      HeroOfSacrifice wrote: Since he got it from Obito and he had some rikudou chakra,won't Kakashi get a fraction of Obito's remnant leftover rikudou chakra?

      Obito was essentially inhabiting his body like an Edo Tensei spirit. indeed Kakashi is going to get Obito's Six Paths Chakra.

      Kakashi was simply like an Edo body, while all the skills, the DMS and Kamui and Six Paths CHakra was from Obito. Kakashi simply used the power.

      apart from Raikiri at that point nothing of the skills he showed were his

      Won't he get a boost in speed?

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    • @Hero

      Dont know.

      Kakashi only had the Six Paths Chakra in battle for one particular scene, in which he somehow manifested Complete Susanoo and was back to using Kamui and pulling out unknown techniques like the Kamui Shuriken out of the blue.

      apart from the clear boost in Chakra there and the Susanoo, there isnt anything significant that DMS Kakashi showcased.

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    • I personally question the whole six paths chakra thing. Sometimes I think that Kakashi Sharingan was enhanced but he didn’t receive six paths chakra.

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    • Quadraticequation wrote: I personally question the whole six paths chakra thing. Sometimes I think that Kakashi Sharingan was enhanced but he didn’t receive six paths chakra.

      It wasn't just the sharingan enhanced, as Kakashi also used six paths raikiri, and it's creation has nothing to do with the sharingan.

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    • Was it a six paths attack though? Is black chidori a six paths attack?

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    • No. Considering that Sasuke used a Black Chidori in Part I. It was said to be senjutsu enhanced. There's a lot of stuff that don't make sense in most of Part II.

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    • Exactly. That’s why I sometimes feel like Kakashi didn’t have six paths chakra.

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    • Quadraticequation wrote: Exactly. That’s why I sometimes feel like Kakashi didn’t have six paths chakra.

      He did. He even says so. N689: "As i thought, with Six Paths Power my eyes are also stronger".

      Having this power doesn't automatically make all your attacks black. But Kakashi most definitely has Six Paths chakra.

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    • Well. You might be over thinking things. Kakashi's Rakiri was fully black and small while part 1 Black Chidori was black and white and kind of was all over the place. So they aren't exactly the same in appearance. DMS Kakashi is kind of overpowered in my opinion. Kamui in general is op. If Kakashi can manage to hit Sasuke or even trap him in the Kamui dimension before his reserves run out, he takes this. I don't really see Sasuke being able to hit Kakashi. Obito only really lost to others cause Kakashi had the other eye and was able to interfere with Obito's Kamui. Now that weakness doesn't exist and he has both thus makes it twice as fast. Kamui is so op that Kishimoto had to prevent Obito from using Kamui while he was a Ten Tails Jinchuriki.

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    • sasuke wins

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    • JamesDuh wrote: Well. You might be over thinking things. Kakashi's Rakiri was fully black and small while part 1 Black Chidori was black and white and kind of was all over the place. So they aren't exactly the same in appearance. DMS Kakashi is kind of overpowered in my opinion. Kamui in general is op. If Kakashi can manage to hit Sasuke or even trap him in the Kamui dimension before his reserves run out, he takes this. I don't really see Sasuke being able to hit Kakashi. Obito only really lost to others cause Kakashi had the other eye and was able to interfere with Obito's Kamui. Now that weakness doesn't exist and he has both thus makes it twice as fast. Kamui is so op that Kishimoto had to prevent Obito from using Kamui while he was a Ten Tails Jinchuriki.

      Well the thing is, Minato was able to escape Kamui because of his FTG, just like how Sasuke can escape it. Time space is the only counter to Kamui to be honest.

      While even if Kakashi managaes to send him to the Kamui dimension, it's not gonna be a end for Sasuke, since for other characters, when Obito sends them to this dimension, they can't escape it, and usually Obito is stronger than them. While in this fight, Kakashi would just throw away all his advantage(of Kamui intangibility) by sending Sasuke to the Kamui dimension, to be fight on.

      Plus, Sasuke has a dimension travelling jutsu, he could just send himself or his clone to the dimension and it would already be game over for Kakashi. This is just my own opinion, though.

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    • Blaze. The problem with that is that Kakashi can just leave Sasuke in the dimension, thus killing him without fighting him via starvation and natural reasons.

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    • JamesDuh wrote: Blaze. The problem with that is that Kakashi can just leave Sasuke in the dimension, thus killing him without fighting him via starvation and natural reasons.

      Though apart from him obviously being able to do some water release jutsu and summon some hawks, lol.

      But apart from jokes, Sasuke can travel through dimensions. And it's already gonna be tough for Kakashi to capture him with Kamui with ameno on Sasuke's side.

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    • Indeed. Minato already proved that teleportation counters Kamui. And even if Kakashi manages to sent Sasuke in Kamui dimension, he can just open a portal and get out if he has enough power left.

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    • Vladosaurus wrote: Indeed. Minato already proved that teleportation counters Kamui. And even if Kakashi manages to sent Sasuke in Kamui dimension, he can just open a portal and get out if he has enough power left.

      Sasuke's teleportation is not the same as Minato and their is no guarantee he can comeout of Kamui.

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    • Teleportation is the same. It's the same concept. The only difference is that Sasuke swaps places with another object and Minato teleports to one of his marks.

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    • Namikazenaruto9 wrote: Sasuke's teleportation is not the same as Minato and their is no guarantee he can comeout of Kamui.

      Doesn't really matter though, since Sasuke can use the same trick to dodge it.

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    • Thekillman wrote: Doesn't really matter though, since Sasuke can use the same trick to dodge it.

      Makes sense but Kamui is better than Ameno no matter how you slice it.

      Vladosaurus wrote: Teleportation is the same. It's the same concept. The only difference is that Sasuke swaps places with another object and Minato teleports to one of his marks.

      What do you think would happen if Kakashi's susanoo activates?
      Think about it.

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    • Namikazenaruto9 wrote: Makes sense but Kamui is better than Ameno no matter how you slice it.

      In some ways yes. In some ways no. You gotta understand that Sasuke can instantly switch himself with one his Kamui Shuriken he launched before he can even go intangible. Also, there's no way Kakashi can last in a prolong battle like Sasuke who can make that happen 7/10 at least.

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    • I honestly forgot about Sasuke being able to move through dimensions now. I retract when I said Kakashi could just leave him in Kamui lol. Also, I want to point out that Minato did not prove Teleportation is Kamui's weakness. Minato's speed in combination with FTG (Flying Thunder God) was able to land him a hit. Minato stated that Kamui was far superior than FTG.

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    • Minato literally escaped Kamui absorption thanks to FTG. And despite having limited use of his teleportation(unlike Minato) Sasuke doesn't need prep time. He can just teleport behind Kakashi if the range is good and strike him. Again, Kakashi can only react to what he sees and he doesn't have eyes to the back of his head.He is light years away from Naruto in terms of sensing.

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    • Valdo. You seem to be forgetting that this isn't just single Kamui, this is DMS Kamui. Double. Stated to be way faster than when they are on their own. Sasuke's teleportation is also limited to three usages before losing Rinnegan (He might still be able to Teleport more but it just goes to show how draining it is and has limited usages) where Kakashi can spam Kamui. Sasuke also cannot just teleport anywhere he wants unless it's short range. He has to swap places with a specific target to increase its range. In chapter 502, Minato stated that the technique exceeds his and Tobirama's FTG. Kakashi even called it more advance than FTG, in chapter 395. And that was just a single eye Kamui. This is double. And it doesn't matter if a target is directly behind him. Kakashi has been shown to dodge such ambush attacks with a simple Substitution without turning around, many times. He can utilize the technique without a hand sign as well, so it can happen immediately. As long as DMS is active for Kakashi, I don't think Sasuke can hit him.

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    • @James

      Who said Kakashi can spam Kamui? Sure he probably could use it a bit more than 3 times due to six paths chakra, but nowhere near spamming. Also, Sasuke is limited to 3 times, but that doesn't mean that Sasuke's down for the count as Sasuke is really fast naturally. It's not about if Sasuke can hit him as Sasuke has the abilities to avoid him until he depletes his chakra because as we know for a fact, Kakashi has lower chakra reserves than Sasuke even with six paths chakra.

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    • Rachin. That's not the point nor what the debate between me Vlado is about. Vlado stated Sasuke could hit DMS Kakashi, which I disagreed. Spam just means multiple usages. Kakashi definitely can use it multiple times. Therefore he can spam it, lol why argue about spamming?

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    • @James

      Spam is something that Naruto does or Sasuke with the Chidori. Kakashi cannot spam Kamui and use Susanoo too. And yes, Sasuke could strike Kakashi from behind with Ameno. Kakashi won't know it's coming. He doesn't have sensory abilities. If Sasuke could land a hit on Naruto in Six Paths Sage Mode, then damn well he'll land a hit on Kakashi. It all depends if Kakashi is using Susanoo or not. Also, Sasuke can easily switch anything Kakashi throws at him back at him. You seemed to be confused what spamming is, not me sir.

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    • That is not what spamming is lol. Are you really going to try to argue about spamming? You seem to be trying to argue about nothing. But I'll indulge you by giving you a lesson in definitions. Spam has three meanings. "irrelevant or inappropriate messages sent on the Internet to a large number of recipients.", "canned meat", and "send the same message indiscriminately to (large numbers of recipients) on the Internet." in other cases it takes the third definition somewhat and just refers to the "large numbers" portion. If you play first person shooters for example, you can "spam" grenades by throwing three. There isn't a limit just has to be more than one to be called spam. Kakashi does have the ability to feel Chakra. This was shown on many instances, one such example is Naruto chapter 502. Many shinobi can feel Chakra. Sensors just have the ability to discern it and further recognize it. With Sasuke so close, it'd be impossible for Kakashi not to be able to feel him. Naruto Sixth Paths Sage Mode, didn't have the overpowered DMS Kamui.

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    • @James

      Oh you are very funny. I know what spamming is. Nobody here but you has said Kakashi can spam Kamui. Throwing 3 grenade is not spamming. It might be spamming for Kakashi, but that's not spamming in general. Kakashi ain't feeling Sasuke instantly switch behind him. He'd have to get by the fact that Sasuke just disappeared. Sasuke was already way stronger than Kakashi in the war. The only thing that could be problematic is the intangibility that Kamui allows, but Sasuke of all people can handle it. This Sasuke fought Jinchuriki Madara, Kaguya and Momoshiki and Kinshiki. He's had way more experience battling powerful foes.

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    • Rachin123 wrote: In some ways yes. In some ways no. You gotta understand that Sasuke can instantly switch himself with one his Kamui Shuriken he launched before he can even go intangible.

      Exactly. Kamui is more versatile, Amenotejiakra is more specialized.

      JamesDuh wrote:

      I honestly forgot about Sasuke being able to move through dimensions now. I retract when I said Kakashi could just leave him in Kamui lol.

      It would likely cost him a lot of chakra to do so though. Teleportation is not a technique Sasuke can reliably spam.

      JamesDuh wrote: Minato stated that Kamui was far superior than FTG.

      It is, but not in the way you mean. Kamui allows nigh-instant transport without markings. It seems to be only marginally slower than FTG due to the warp not being instant.

      JamesDuh wrote: That is not what spamming is lol.

      On this forum, spamming is generally anything more than 5 times. More generally, it's a term used for when people are able to use techniques without major drawbacks (chakra cost or otherwise). Naruto can spam Rasengan: he's shown doing it dozens of times without being tired. He can spam clones in the hundreds. Obito spams Kamui: he does so numerous times in a single fight. Minato can spam FTG: we see him teleport all over with no noticeable fatigue.

      Kakashi can't spam Kamui. Even using it once is straining, using it 3 times is nearly killing. Same for Chidori, he's limited to 5 or so.

      The real question is, can DMS kakashi spam Kamui? I do think so. He uses chakra techniques far beyond what he should be able to use, and uses Kamui some 4-5 times in a row with no backlash. This alone would've killed kakashi previously, considering that he was already pretty much out of chakra at that time and had used Kamui some 3 times before his latest recharge.

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    • Kakashk was spamming Kamui in the fourth war. Anyway in this fight, he'd definitely have an advantage with Long Range Kamui. With just a single eye, he teleported a clone of Naruto so fast that Obito thought it was dispelled, and he was looking at the Naruto clone with his Sharingan, which is known for it's ability to pick up extreme details, and a Rinnegan, which can see chakra buildup. With Double Mangekyo Sharingan, Sasuke has next to no chance at seeing or countering a DMS Long Range Kamui. Short Range Kamui has no delay and is instant in use. Use either long or short range through Susanoo and Sasuke has problems he doesn't want to deal with at all.

      Also, all those people you (Rachin) said that Sasuke fought nearly killed him (Madara impaled him, Momoshiki nearly crushed and burned him to death, Kaguya obliterated his Susanoo and nearly burned him to death, and Kinshiki nearly beheaded him).

      None of those people ever fought against Kamui except for Kaguya and even then there was nothing even she could do about it, so power doesn't matter in Kakashi's case. Also, why waste Kamui Shuriken when he can easily scope him from long range or have a clone do it? Please don't PIS Kakashi or try to downplay his proven skills.

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    • Thekillman wrote: It would likely cost him a lot of chakra to do so though. Teleportation is not a technique Sasuke can reliably spam.

      The cost depends more on the distance and the number of people one carries. Obito mentions the sheer distamce between Kaguya's dimensions. So it could be taken that Obito's kamui dimension isn't that far from the the real world. Hence Sasuke who travelled through Kaguya's dimension, and took seven people to an unknown dimension, can safely(if I'm right) travel back five times.

      As well the fact, that he would probably set up traps/shadow clones in the Kamui dimension, which would be a problem for Kakashi's intangibility.

      @Prince. Why can't Sasuke see the Kamui? He's literally gonna feel himself being warped. Minato was able to escape during such an situation, even with the more faster warping, which you claim from the close range, so no, Sasuke will see it, and he will react to it. Plus, like I stated above, its useless for Kakashi to send Sasuke to Kamui dimension.

      And about the things you said, Madara impaled EMS Sasuke, and within just that day, Sasuke sliced TTJ Madara... Burned him to death? Sasuke's well alive. And plus, that scene itself was insane plot, like why didn't Sasuke use PS? Ameno? Absorbtion? Kaguya is literally stronger than all the characters in Naruto, so yeah, she did, but Sasuke still fought and survived someone like that, now, Kinshiki didn't even have a chance, Sasuke escaped Kinshi, by his own jutsu. That's like saying Minato and Obito almost got killed by everyone but escaped with their time space jutsu.

      And no one was talking about power against Kamui here, we're all acknowledging the fact that Sasuke's duo time space jutsus help him to counter Obito's/Kakashi's Kamui. It's a fact.

      These are just my own opinion, though.

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    • Princeharris1993 wrote:

      Kakashk was spamming Kamui in the fourth war.

      The only reason he could do that was because he got recharges. Kurama gave him a bunch of chakra, which Kakashi noted also made Kamui stronger. We know medical ninja can transfer chakra, and there was a whole division of them. Sakura and Tsunade summoned Katsuyu to replenish chakra while fighting the Shinju. Without such powerups, Kakashi would've run dry ages ago. By the end, he was on his knees recovering from all the fighting, and Madara took his eye with ease. Yet the moment Obito possesses him, he shows no sign of fatigue and easily pulls out a Perfect Susanoo, then numerous Kamui abilities.

      BlazeRelease wrote:

      The cost depends more on the distance and the number of people one carries.

      I don't think Sasuke can travel interdimensionally more often than he can use Amenotejikara. Distance and volume may increase the cost, but he can barely teleport himself 20m three times in a row. Seems unlikely that he'd be able to travel to Kaguya's dimensions with ease several times in a row, or back from Kamui several times in a row.


      BlazeRelease wrote:

      Obito mentions the sheer distamce between Kaguya's dimensions. So it could be taken that Obito's kamui dimension isn't that far from the the real world.

      Obito carries Kamui's dimension with him. Even though the distance is massive and it cost him immense amounts of chakra to connect two dimensions, he had no issue entering the Kamui dimension on either side. Considering how insanely unlikely it is that the Shinobi world, the Prime dimension, Gravity Dimension and Sand dimension are all equally spaced from Kamui, the logical conclusion is that the Kamui dimension is always with Obito.

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    • I listed the direct definition coming straight out of the dictionary. If anyone disagree's take it up with the English Language lol. That is what spamming is. Even then, Kakashi has shown in the 4th war to be able to use Kamui more than 5 times without Naruto's reserves. So therefore even by your term (despite not being the actual meaning), he can spam. You forget, he has used Kamui during the war before the face off with Obito. He also shown he could still use it when Naruto's reserves ran out. Also, what's Sasuke going to do if Kakashi just keeps Kamui'ing him to Kamui or a dangerous location that can kill him? Kakashi can definitely use Kamui far more than Sasuke can teleport. Once Sasuke reaches his limit, that's it. Kamui is one of the most op techniques, right up there with Shisui's Mangekyo, and other ridiculous abilities in Naruto. Kakashi feels chakra almost instantly. He almost instantly felt the chakra as it happened in the Chapter I provided despite it being a distance away. No way he isn't going to feel the Chakra of someone incredibly powerful and literally behind him. With that, he can use Substitution or Kamui to dodge.

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    • @James

      By your logic substitution is they key to everything.

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    • JamesDuh wrote: I listed the direct definition coming straight out of the dictionary. If anyone disagree's take it up with the English Language lol.

      Doesn't matter if it's technically correct. Loads of terms are used on this wiki, or the naruto community, that aren't textbook definitions. Language is determined by people, dictionaries just record it.

      JamesDuh wrote:

      Even then, Kakashi has shown in the 4th war to be able to use Kamui more than 5 times without Naruto's reserves

      When has he ever used it 5 times in a row without getting chakra? He was done and out when fighting the biju, then Kurama gave him chakra and threw him at Obito. Sakura healed him (and she can transfer chakra when she does). Kakashi didn't fight the entire 4th war on his own reserves, far from it.

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    • @TheKillman. I'm pretty sure the limit to Ameno is not the matter of stamina, it's just a natural usage limit. Like Madara's limbo having a time limit, and like The Deva path of pain, there is obviously a usage/time limir between these Rinnegen techniques, that allows non rinnegen users, to have a chance.

      But yeah, Sasuke will tire down by dimension travells, but the question is, is Kamui that far? Isn't it more of a pocket dimension? By what we seen by Kakashi and Obito displaying Kamui, it was rendered that the more weight is taken, the more it cost, just like every other time space jutsu, so it could be taken that the distance principle works the same, Obito never showed even a tad bit of discomfort with the distance, probably due to having Hashu cells and because it's his own dimension. But still the distance shouldn't be as far as the distance between Kaguya's which he shockinly commented on.

      Or rather as yoy said, it's inside his Sharingan, itself. So wouldn't that be close to the real world?

      And let's be real, the Raikage escaped from Amaterasu at point blank, Kamui however fast, still should be slower than Amaterasu, sincs Kamui warps it's target. And Sasuke is presently way faster than the Raikage. So he can just escape any incoming long range Kamui. Since he can also see the charging up of that chakra with his eye.

      He also has Ameno to escape, and doesn't Absorbtion and deva path of rinnegen Counter Kamui? It should, since it's a jutsu right?

      Shouldn't genjutsu work on Kakashi while being intangible?

      Wouldn't Sasuke have a chance at attacking Kakashi with Amaterasu just at the second he becomes tangible?

      Would Kakashi even be able to get Sasuke when he would be in Susanoo most of the time? The same susanoo that is fast enough to dodge shurikens.

      Shouldn't a bunch of Shadow clones make Kakashi's chance of capturing Sasuke tougher?

      Though apart from everything else, even if Kakashi manages to catch Sasuke in Kamui, don't anyone think, it would be too silly for Sasuke to just come out of the dimension and then again after being captured? Like isn't he aware of his own chakra/stamina.

      If we're really discussing on the point where Sasuke is stuck in the Kamui dimension, he would most likely stay there, recovering his own chakra(if he even used up anything) and injuries.

      While on the other side, in the real world, remember Kakashi's essentially doesn't have the advantage of time here, and I'm not talking about Obito's time limited possesion on him, I'm talking about the amount of chakra he's gonna be drained, since his Sharingan isn't even his and even a natural Uchiha suffers from chakra drainage from MS. Kakashi can't deactivate his Sharingan, draining him if his chakra by the second. Sasuke can just wait up for Kakashi to be finally at the end of his chakra. Like this is Sasuke, he waited till Oro became weakest, he waited till Madara came alive to attack him while mortal. He will wait for Kakashi to be at his eneviteble weak point. While he charges up his own chakra.

      So yeah, Kakashi even if he manages to get Sasuke, it's just will end in vain, and a wastage of good chakra, Kakashi has to end Sasuke the old fashioned way(which he can't), Kamui will just extend the time of the battle that is severe for someone like Kakashi with two MS active, while it is benefecial for Sasuke to recharge his chakra and have a time to plan against Kakashi(which he very well would have made from the duration of the fight)

      This is just my own opinion.

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    • "When has he ever used it 5 times in a row without getting chakra?" Ummm. Chapters 590-598 maybe???? Ya know when he like used it on GM's neck, the Kunai, the Rasengan, and Naruto's clone???? He even stated in Chapter 598 he could still use it a couple more times which means he can use it more than 5 times and by your definition spam. That's not even counting any usages after those chapters like when he escapes Obito's Dimension the first time or prior chapters. So uh.... Yeah. He also used various other techniques. "By your definition, Substitution is the answer to everything." Um. Not really. Only to those known to use it. Such as Sakura and Kakashi? I'm in plenty of debates with only two out of like a dozen, mentioning the technique, so what are you on about?

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    • BlazeRelease wrote: @Prince. Why can't Sasuke see the Kamui? He's literally gonna feel himself being warped. Minato was able to escape during such an situation, even with the more faster warping, which you claim from the close range, so no, Sasuke will see it, and he will react to it. Plus, like I stated above, its useless for Kakashi to send Sasuke to Kamui dimension.

      Because Obito was literally looking at Naruto's Clone with a SHARINGAN and RINNEGAN and thought the clone dissipated. Literally, with the Sharingan's extreme attention to detail, he still wasn't able to tell that the clone was warped because Kakashi warped it so fast. The Rinnegan can see chakra buildup and Obito still wasn't able to tell was warped and guess what? Sasuke has a Rinnegan and Sharingan, so it would literally look no different from Sasuke's point of view. That's why.

      Minato's reaction time is on a whole different level than even current Sasuke's, mainly due to his extreme base speed and years of practicing, using and mastering the Flying Thunder God Technique. The chances of Sasuke "feeling" himself being warp are next to none considering how fast Kakashi can warp objects with just a single eye, let alone using long range Kamui through double Mangekyo Sharingan. Even if he could feel it, before he could do anything about it, he'd already be in either Kamui's Dimension or he'd be greatly wounded if not dead. and don't even think about downplaying Kakashi's use of Kamui. He took Deidara's arms like nothing and didn't even think twice about trying to take his head. At this point, Sasuke is dead if Kakashi wanted it at nearly any point.

      Should Sasuke actually use Ameno to switch himself or another object with Kakashi and counterattack, Kakashi could instantly render himself intangible, as anything that overlaps with his body causes said body section to appear in Kamui's Dimension. Should Kakashi turn around and do a counterattack of his own, no defense in Sasuke's arsenal can stop his Kamui's enhanced techniques.

      It takes Sasuke a bit of some time and considerable chakra to form his Space-Time Portal. Kakashi can take advantage of this and literally keep sending him to Kamui's Dimension. If sasuke wants to escape, he'd be forced to use a considerable amount of chakra, form his space-time portal and escape, otherwise he'd he forced to stay in that dimension. Kakashi warped Gyuki into Kamui's dimension so to keep warping Sasuke into it and essentially blackmail him to use chakra to escape is another tactic Kakashi can use and take full advantage of.

      Also, Deva Path and Preta Path DON'T counter Kamui. Kamui is a space-time ninjutsu that uses a barrier space to warp targets away. there is no chakra in the vicinity of the barrier to be absorbed, making the Preta Path useless against it, and the Deva Path uses Gravity to repel attacks, but Kamui warps and distorts space-time itself, so its gravitational abilities won't help in defending against it either.

      Sasuke won't be able to tell if Kakashi is tangible or not because its intangibility is seamless. Anything that overlaps with the user causes that area of the user to instantly appear in Kamui's dimension. You can't tell if the user is intangible or not. Also genjutsu won't work because if Kakashi's body is in Kamui's dimension, his chakra can't he disrupted. You can't disrupt someone's chakra if you are in Dimension-A and their body is in Dimension-B. You chakra has to be able to physically disrupt there,s but if their body isn't physically there, then you can't physically establish a connection to physically disrupt it.

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    • Princeharris1993 wrote: Because Obito was literally looking at Naruto's Clone with a SHARINGAN and RINNEGAN and thought the clone dissipated. Literally, with the Sharingan's extreme attention to detail, he still wasn't able to tell that the clone was warped because Kakashi warped it so fast. The Rinnegan can see chakra buildup and Obito still wasn't able to tell was warped and guess what? Sasuke has a Rinnegan and Sharingan, so it would literally look no different from Sasuke's point of view. That's why.

      It's called plot. The shadow clone poofed away. If the clone just disappeared, then we can talk, but it didn't. It's as if the clone dispersed. Everything that has been Kamui'd away has been shown being warped away with the swirls.

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    • Sasuke Rinne Sharingan allows him to teleport between dimensions as well, so bfr is out. And let's not forget deva paths (attraction/repulsion) techniques. Sasuke also has much more chakra than Kakashi, so if the fight drags on, Kakashi will automatically lose. And if Sasuke does chibaku tensei, Kakashi will be hard-pressed in dealing with that alone.

      And Sasuke can also use Amenotejikara, to shift locations of himself or attacks and attack Kakashi from a blind spot. The speed of this move is quite fast as well so Kakashi will be in trouble.Also,I am calling it the rinne-sharingan because his Rinnegan contains six tomoe split between its first two ripples and retains all of the abilities of his MS. It is not a regular rinnegan. And he can travel between all 6 dimension of Kaguya and the dimensions of Otsutsuki. Even other people can enter his portals but Sasuke did state that the number of people who could enter the portal was limited.

      Chibaku Tensei is to throw Kakashi off as it will suck Kakashi towards it.

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    • @Prince. As Rachin said, it was pretty much plot. kamui takes time. It literally takes time. We all saw this instant Kamui you say off, warping off slow again. We literally saw Kakashi and Obito standing together to increase the speed of this 'instant' Kamui, to escape truth seeking balls. So yeah, it's not that fast, whatever happend is plot.

      Minato's reaction time is even better than Adult Sasuke with EMS and Rinnegen? Where did you get that from? How can Sasuke not feel this kamui? He's literally being warped. This isn't FTG nor Ameno, this is Kamui we're talking about. Sasuke will feel it, and he'll easily dodge it. He has ameno, for crying out loud. Ameno literally is instant, like how you wrongly though Kakashi's Kamui was.

      Now, how is he gonna be injured or dead?

      Should Sasuke actually use Ameno, Kakashi won't even know what happened till he is switched. Ask TTJ Madara about it. What Minato also show, when against Obito was that Obito's Kamui isn't instant, it's just good timing with Sharingan, Minato literally got him qith Rasengan after a few seconds after FTG, so Kamui intangibility isn't instant.

      And should Sasuke just feel like shifting his sword in between Kakashi's chest, it'll be all over. Like literally, it's instant, and Kakashi(pr even anyone) won't even figure out what happened till a sword is in between him. Now don't tell me he'll counter with Kamui intangibility, it's literally gonna be a sword inside his chest within that nano second, he won't activate his Kamui without Sasuke moving. Cause he (or anyone) won't be seeing it coming.

      Like I literally stated in my previous post in this thread, which you seeminly have ignored. Sending Sasuke to Kamui dimension, will be the most idiotic thing Kakashi would do. He doesn't have the luxury of time here, each passing second, his chakra will be more and more drained by Sharingan. While Sasuke will just take his sweet time and recover his chakra(if he even used it enough), Sasuke's the type who will wait for his opponent's weakest point. He waited for Oro, he waited for Madara. So he won't just keep on popping back and fourth, like he's some academy year old Naruto. This is Sasuke. He's not some comic relief character that's gonna do something like that.

      And believing that barrier around the target of Kamui isn't made of chakra is argueble.

      Genjutsu will work on him. Genjutsu is an illusion, not some physical attack. Genjutsu is a work of the mind, which works inside the mind! And Sharingan genjutsu is done through the contact of eyes. It's how it is.

      Yes, one can't figure out if Kamui is active or not. But they very well can test it out. He just need to fight on against Kakashi, until he loses his intangibility(which is five minutes but since this is two DMS and sp chakra, I'll give it ten minutes), Kakashi's toast by every dropping second. While Sasuke just on overwhelms him.

      So if you're able to understand what I just said, then you will know that Kakashi can't beat Sasuke. It's almost like how Itachi said, every jutsu has it's weakness(usually a person itself). Nad the weakness to Kamui is Sasuke. If it literally was anyone else against DMS Kakashi then I'll give to him. But Sasuke just counters the whole purpose of Kamui, and he has a whole set of other jutsus in his collection and he is also way more powerful than DMS Kakashi. There's literally no logical way for Kakashi to win this fight.

      This is just my own opinion.

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    • LMFAO. I didn't literally mean "instant" in the way you use it, I used it to mean extremely fast, not instant as in the FTG. Learn to distinguish exaggeration from literal talk. Also, if Kakashi is in Kamui's dimension, his eyes aren't physically there to be affected by chakra from Sasuke. To affect someone with genjutsu is like transfering your own chakra to their brain and disrupting their chakra with it to put them in it. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize I'm simplifying the explanation. If Kakashi isn't there physically, the chakra you use to ensnare him in Genjutsu might as well pass right through him because he is in a completely different space that said chakra medium can't reach, thus Kakashi won't get caught in his Genjutsu, assuming he uses Kamui before hand.

      "While Sasuke will just take his sweet time and recover his chakra(if he even used it enough), Sasuke's the type who will wait for his opponent's weakest point."

      Of, Sasuke REALLY TOOK HIS SWEET TIME to recover chakra trying to Escape Kaguya's Dimension when she separated him from Naruto and the others. He didn't try to recover his chakra at all back then, he did ever possible thing he could and tried to escape her dimension, only to fail in the process.

      Kakashi warped away all of Sasuke's Susanoo Arrows because he couldn't dodge them and that was with a single MS and at a relatively decent range. With both, its a piece of cake in the bag. I don't care what you say, Kakashi can no scope Sasuke and the manga proves my point. Obito thought Naruto's clone has simply dispersed because it was Kamui'd away so fast and the Manga proves this. Kakashi can go intangible at a moments notice as well as snipe at a moments notice. And Kakashi isn't one to waste chakra for no reason, unlike Sasuke, who has been known to waste chakra and constantly get feinted a lot. Sasuke isn't winning this.

      When Sasuke switches Kakashi's position three times and has to wait for a recharge period, what will he do to counter a Kakashi then when Kakashi can simply spam Kamui in this state? Exactly. When Kakashi is warped or doesn't see Sasuke, he can immediately use Kamui to go intangible to avoid the attack completely for a few seconds while Sasuke practically wasted a single use of Ameno. Kakashi took one of the Gedo Mazo's legs and couldn't immediately tell if his attack was successful or not because it was summoned elsewhere at the same time he Kamui'd the statue, though he still took its leg.

      "Like I literally stated in my previous post in this thread, which you seeminly have ignored. Sending Sasuke to Kamui dimension, will be the most idiotic thing Kakashi would do. He doesn't have the luxury of time here, each passing second, his chakra will be more and more drained by Sharingan."

      No, you ignored by point. Kakashi has Obito's chakra and havingthe Sharingan active isn't no where near that draining, even without Obito's chakra, Kakashi can keep it active if he wants to. He may not hbe a Uchiha but the chakra drain is so small that he doesn't need to keep it covered up to conserve chakra anymore. Stop making up facts and modifying information to suit your needs in this debate. Kakashi damn near had his Sharingan active for the entire war and wasn't worried about losing chakra from having it active.

      "Now don't tell me he'll counter with Kamui intangibility, it's literally gonna be a sword inside his chest within that nano second, he won't activate his Kamui without Sasuke moving. Cause he (or anyone) won't be seeing it coming."

      You do realize that anything that touches and overlaps with Kakashi's body when he's using Kamui will instantly transfer that section of his body to Kamui's Dimension? The Sharingan picks up all details of what it looks at and all it takes it but a change in scenery for the Sharingan to register it and rely the info to his brain, and then but a thought of activating Kamui to avoid the attack.

      " And if Sasuke does chibaku tensei, Kakashi will be hard-pressed in dealing with that alone."

      Kakashi can simply go intangible and dash out the way, getting rid of himself being the CT Core if that's the case, or he can simply Kamui away the core if Sasuke releases it into the air or surroundings.

      Stop trying to downplay Kakashi when Manga facts prove my points.

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    • Sigh, no one is downplaying Kakashi here, just like I stated, Kakashi can beat anyone else, but not this Sasuke, not without resticting his Rinnegen. It's a fact.

      You kept on saying using the plot bs scene where Kakashi 'instantly' as you said, kamui's the clone, and as everyone who watched the anime and manga, know, Kamui is not that freaking fast. It is slow, and hence proven to be easily avoideble by a time space jutsu.

      What part of my sentence did you not get to read? Kakashi just like Obito, won't activate his Kamui for the whole time. He'll keep it active only when Sasuke starts to move. Cause Kamui has it's own time limit, if you didn't know. And Genjutsu doesn't take a freaking movement. Sasuke just needs to stand there and get eye contact from Kakashi. That's it.

      Lmao, what are you even shouting about? You're literally mentioning about a Sasuke who doesn't have time space jutsu to escape against Kaguya's dimension. Ofcourse he's not gonna sit down in Kaguya's dimension when he had no such jutsu at that time. This is just ridiculous, to be honest. You're talking about scenes that aren't even linked to here. You do know that he only presently can escape her dimension? He didn't have the jutsu to travel between dimensions, earlier.

      This is frustrating, Kakashi won't keep his Kamui active. He'll only use it when Sasuke starts to move forward. Ameno is literally instant. Like there's no time in between from the first place and the teleported destination. Kakashi nor anyone will be able to just see Sasuke disappearing. This is not FTG, this is not Kamui, it's Ameno, the jutsu that shifts someone or an object to another space without a second of a time. It's basically within that nano second. Kakashi won't see the sword coming to his chest, just like TTJ Madara didn't. It'll be in the chest at that very second. And Kakashi wouldn't even understand what happened for a few minutes, just like TTJ Madara.

      I'm speaking what the manga showed. Kakashi can't keep his Sharingan active all the time, in the war, he was healed and powered up numerous times. That was the only reason he wasn't down on the ground. And this is two Sharingans here. And Obito's spirit isn't gonna be with Kakashi all the time(or atleast, this debate implies on him to stay as long Kakashi is alive)

      Wow, using I see you can talk about the Sharingan's prediction for Kakashi's sake. But the real blooded Uchiha with EMS and Six Tomoe Rinnegen can't even spot himself being warped? Amazing, lmao. Ameno as I've stated above, is absolute instant. It's not a poof and then a appear. It's a change in the space of the surrounding itself, it shifts the desired object to it's desired destination(within the required distance) with no such use of time. And plus, Obito showed that intangibility within a second, by getting hit by Minato's Rasengan. And Obito was a sensor, lol.

      And as I stated, superior genjutsu, Rinnegen techniques, Shadow clones(to confuse Kakashi), Susanoo, more power, more stamina, a much more smarter genius in battles, Sasuke just takes this. Period.

      And it's not like I'm downplaying DMS Kakashi here, he has his skills, and his jutsu, but his only weakness is Sasuke and Sasuke himself. And that's the fact.

      Now, if it doesn't bother you, I won't be replying back to this thread, feels like there's no point anymore, I've already stated everything proven by the manga and by logic. Now the only thing is to understand all that. And as I've said, I most likely won't be replying back to this thread, but do counter my points if you can(but please stick with the manga and by reasonable logic). Well okay then, peace!

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    • Sasuke Rinne Sharingan allows him to teleport between dimensions as well, so bfr is out. And let's not forget deva paths (attraction/repulsion) techniques. Sasuke also has much more chakra than Kakashi, so if the fight drags on, Kakashi will automatically lose. And if Sasuke does chibaku tensei, Kakashi will be hard-pressed in dealing with that alone.

      And Sasuke can also use Amenotejikara, to shift locations of himself or attacks and attack Kakashi from a blind spot. The speed of this move is quite fast as well so Kakashi will be in trouble.Also,I am calling it the rinne-sharingan because his Rinnegan contains six tomoe split between its first two ripples and retains all of the abilities of his MS. It is not a regular rinnegan. And he can travel between all 6 dimension of Kaguya and the dimensions of Otsutsuki. Even other people can enter his portals but Sasuke did state that the number of people who could enter the portal was limited.

      Chibaku Tensei is to throw Kakashi off as it will suck Kakashi towards it.

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    • Sasuke doesnt have rinne sharingan,he has rinnegan which retained his sharingan powers. Its not the same thing. Also the portals between dimensions will only help him if he somehow gets stuck in Kamui dimension, and also opening a portals takes a hit on his rinnegan,despite the fact that i dont believe that opening one portal drains him as much as others believe.

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    • Ninjachris
      Ninjachris removed this reply because:
      .
      03:41, March 17, 2018
      This reply has been removed
    • Kakashi wins.

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    • ^You don't have a reason as of why he would win therefore I am ignoring your point.

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    • HeroOfSacrifice wrote: ^You don't have a reason as of why he would win therefore I am ignoring your point.

      You’re free to do so it doesn’t change the price of rice, just like a long drawn out explanation wouldn’t change the fact that kakashi wins.

      Also your validation is not a requirement for my posts.

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    • Neither is yours.

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    • HeroOfSacrifice wrote: Neither is yours.

      Lol you’re a funny little guy.

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    • @Hero

      If they aren't willing to give an explanation as to why a character wins then just scroll past. It has no substance to even bother responding.

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    • Rachin123 wrote: @Hero

      If they aren't willing to give an explanation as to why a character wins then just scroll past. It has no substance to even bother responding.

      Exactly!

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    • I was bored so I just replied...I guess?

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    • A FANDOM user
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