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  • AsianReaper
    AsianReaper closed this thread because:
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    03:41, February 12, 2018

    Fully Mastered Sage Mode Minato with Hiraishin vs Tendo with all Six Paths of Pain Abilities

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    • half powered tendo= tails naruto. since minato is trash compared to someone like 6 tails naruto, he obvioulsy loses to full powered tendo

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    • Lorenzo.r.2nd wrote: half powered tendo= tails naruto. since minato is trash compared to someone like 6 tails naruto, he obvioulsy loses to full powered tendo

      Minato took on Kurama with all his tails. Six Tails wouldn't be a problem

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    • like, i have yet to know when tht happened u know? when did minato beat kurama? when he sealed him? that doenst make him stornger than kurama. atually, it just proves that he was so inferior to him that he had to seal him. same case with madara, kaguya, etc. nd how would he even damage 6 tails naruto? or actually survive tbh? cuz kurama wont be caught by surprise since he has sensing, no nothing that is his forte will work on kurama. kurama can also one shot.

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    • @Lorenzo

      Minato is not stronger than Kurama per say, as he can't cause near as much destruction as Kurama, but he has what it means to fight him and ultimately handicap him by sealing him. Kurama can't do much no that he is sealed. Kurama has to hope of the host has enough anger to tap into him, and even then Minato made it so it'd be harder for Kurama to ever take over completely.

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    • then its pretty much settled. kurama has speed on par with him (maybe likely faster, as he is comparable to kcm naruto), more destructive and defensive capacity, more expirince, and even more limbs. the size is also pretty sad. so yeah, unless minato dies to win by using the seal, he cant win (and sinceo only he died, but kurama didnt, kurama still won).

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    • @Lorenzo

      Nah dude. We’ve established this. Minato.... beat.... Kurama.... and he also beat him after sealing him cuz he got his powers. And don’t say it was Naruto cuz that’s just some good old BS

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    • @rachin, can u help me out here? this guy is legit saying that minato is stronger than kurama. like, i dont want this to be another kakashi vs minato thread, so, like idk... just explain to him how/why minato isnt stronger than kurama? i dont want to waste more three weeks on him anymore..

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    • Oh yes. Minato beat Kurama. By giving his life in exchange. And with a huuuge help from Kushina. You know, the one who restrained Kurama with her Uzumaki chakra chains? What a win...

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    • @Lorenzo

      The only reason this thread would turn into another Kakashi vs Minato is because of you. Stronger can be interrupted differently. Some people believe it means to be fully capable of defeating their opponent, or however causes the most destruction.

      @Vlad

      Minato wasted chakra previously when he teleported Kurama's TBB and fought Obito. I'm sure he could have fully sealed Kurama into Naruto without having to die. While yes, Kushina had a tad part in helping "defeat" Kurama, Minato was they key controller in the fight. Let's be honest.

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    • Vladosaurus wrote: Oh yes. Minato beat Kurama. By giving his life in exchange. And with a huuuge help from Kushina. You know, the one who restrained Kurama with her Uzumaki chakra chains? What a win...

      Minato had to give his life to split the Kyubi. He had to split the Kyubi in order to seal it in naruto. Sealing it in Kushina would mean the loss of the beast. He could seal it inside him, but he wouldn't survive that apparently and so it would also mean losing the Beast.

      The only way to accomplish his goal of still having control over the Beast was with the route taken. In that route, Kushina needed to restrain Kurama because Minato needed time to enact his plan.

      If the only goal had been to get rid of the Beast, Minato could've found any target and sealed Kurama inside it easily.

      Besides, Obito beat Kurama easily by controlling him. If total obedience through the Sharingan doesn't count as defeat, what does? Yet Obito is clearly nowhere Kurama's level of firepower. Similarly, Minato can defeat Kurama simply by sealing him. He doesn't need to match his firepower.

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    • He was the key role in defeating Kurama, i'm not arguing that. But to say that he could take Kurama on 1 vs 1 is laughable. And you say that Minato wasted chakra to teleport Kurama's TBB away...But that makes no sense.Why is that unfair? Kurama also wasted chakra in that TBB. The fact that he has a tone more chakra than Minato is just Kurama's part of being a freak. It's like saying: "Sasuke wasted chakra when he countered Naruto's rasengan with his chidori". And the Obito battle was very short and surly didn't affect Minato's battle with Kurama at all.It's not like he was weakened. Also it's very very unlikely that Minato would've been able to use the reaper seal on Kurama without Kushina restraining him. The reaper seal can also be countered with force i believe. It's esentially sould stealing and as seen before, that can be countered. And i'm pretty sure that Kurama is powerful enough to counter it.

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    • Vladosaurus wrote: Also it's very very unlikely that Minato would've been able to use the reaper seal on Kurama without Kushina restraining him.

      He doesn't need the Reaper seal in order to defeat Kurama on his own. Any seal will suffice. But only with the Reaper seal could he split the biju and truly weaken Kurama.

      Vladosaurus wrote: But that makes no sense.Why is that unfair? Kurama also wasted chakra in that TBB. The fact that he has a tone more chakra than Minato is just Kurama's part of being a freak.

      Kakashi using a Chidori is far more impactful on his chakra levels, than say Naruto using a rasengan. Or 10. In the same sense, Minato teleporting Kurama is far more draining for him, than any Bijudama is for Kurama.

      I don't think it matters though. Minato would simply seal Kurama away. he had no problem tranferring Yin Kurama in a fraction of a second, nor did he have any trouble sealing Yang Kurama in naruto in mere seconds. So what makes you think he can't seal the whole beast? He couldn't because he wouldn't survive and (he thought that) Kushina wouldn't survive, but otherwise nothing would've stopped him from sealing Kurama himself entirely.

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    • This is gonna become a Minato vs Kakashi thread because of Lorenzo.Lets look over both of them.Only Naruto could have saved that day. Minato may have been able to defeat the six "pains" but he would never have been able to undo the damage Nagato did like Naruto did. Naruto basically showed that he is better than his father. Not only did he stop the Pains (with some help with the intel from Jiraiya) but he negotiate with the "enemy" and made a truce with them. Thus bringing back Kakashi, and the girl who owns the pig I forget her name. And many other countless (and nameless) more.

      Naruto did something only the 1st Hokage once did. Settle their differences and made true peace with their enemy. Minato has talent and skill but he would not have been able to negotiate with Nagato.The Nine-Tails Chakra was the biggest deciding factor: Pain had Naruto beat until he transformed into his Version 2 form.

      Assuming he knows nothing about the Rinnegan and the Six Paths of Pain, Minato's speed is his only advantage. Pain was able to withstand senjutsu and absorb Rasengans, both of which were Minato's other skills. Minato can summmon toads, but as we saw, Pain's summons were able to occupy them. I'm not even gonna mention nature transformations because Pain has all of them.

      The unexpected element of Minato's Flying Raijin is greatly compromised by Pain's shared vision. The Deva Path can use its gravitational abilities to mess with Minato's kunai, so his usual teleportation might not work as effectively. More than likely, Nagato will know that Minato plans to mark the Deva Path and will sacrifice the other Pains to protect it, knowing that they can be restored.

      Deva Path: Gravitational control. Asura Path: Ballistic and mechanical weaponry. Human Path: Not a battle type, but that soul-steal shit is no joke. Animal Path: Various, HUGE summons. Preta Path: Justu absorbance. Naraka Path: Restoration of all the other Paths. Imagine all that shit. Happening at once.

      Minato just doesn't have the power to take out all the Paths in the short recovery gap they have. Nagato was efficient AS SHIT when it came to that. His usual one-shot kills won't be very efficient due to the Naraka Path's restoration, and Pain will drag the fight out until he eventually wins.However, Pain said Jiraiya would've won if he knew Pain's secrets and stuff. When you think about it, Minato's faster than Jiraiya at deciphering enemy tactics. Maybe Minato would figure it out in time and maybe seal with Reaper Death Seal so it goes either way.

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    • sealing. yall are sayin that it works for sure, but even orochimaru, while barely stronger than hiruzen, semi-overcame it. if it werent for the fact that kurama was weakened, and restrained, and minato couldnt even seal him whole, proves that minato by himself would not have won by any means. oh, and since tendo has the rinnegan, there is the probablity that he can see the demon from the seal (possible, but not too sure). and how come im getting blamed for everything over here? so cuz yall had the same opposite opinion than men, im the bad guy? seems legit, considering the shit ive seen here...

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    • Lorenzo.r.2nd wrote: sealing. yall are sayin that it works for sure, but even orochimaru, while barely stronger than hiruzen, semi-overcame it. if it werent for the fact that kurama was weakened, and restrained, and minato couldnt even seal him whole, proves that minato by himself would not have won by any means. oh, and since tendo has the rinnegan, there is the probablity that he can see the demon from the seal (possible, but not too sure). and how come im getting blamed for everything over here? so cuz yall had the same opposite opinion than men, im the bad guy? seems legit, considering the shit ive seen here...

      Not sure if Im saying shit because you are saying shit yourself.

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    • nah, i think YOU are saying shit, since u said to forget about me and shit...

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    • Lorenzo.r.2nd wrote: nah, i think YOU are saying shit, since u said to forget about me and shit...

      Woah..replied quickly.Tell me,what shit am I saying and which part?

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    • Lorenzo.r.2nd wrote: minato couldnt even seal him whole, proves that minato by himself would not have won by any means.

      Minato couldn't seal him whole in Naruto, or himself. If his intention is to seal the Kyubi as a sacrifice, he could've done so. Hell even a dying Kushina could seal it whole. But as Minato said, he couldn't let the Kyubi run free, so he used the Reaper Death Seal in order to weaken it and seal it in Naruto so he could learn to use it's power. Minato can barely handle half of the powerful chakra, so how would Naruto (a baby!) handle the whole beast? That's whats physically and conceptually impossible, not the sealing as a whole thing (since Kushina/Mito are proof that it's possible to begin with)

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    • Thekillman wrote:

      Lorenzo.r.2nd wrote: minato couldnt even seal him whole, proves that minato by himself would not have won by any means.

      Minato couldn't seal him whole in Naruto, or himself. If his intention is to seal the Kyubi as a sacrifice, he could've done so. Hell even a dying Kushina could seal it whole. But as Minato said, he couldn't let the Kyubi run free, so he used the Reaper Death Seal in order to weaken it and seal it in Naruto so he could learn to use it's power. Minato can barely handle half of the powerful chakra, so how would Naruto (a baby!) handle the whole beast? That's whats physically and conceptually impossible, not the sealing as a whole thing (since Kushina/Mito are proof that it's possible to begin with)

      Ur not getting my point. If kushina wasn't there, kurama would've been free to move around and do all kinds of shit that he couldn't do before. Just like he killed kushina before the sealing process was WHILE restrained, without kushina,minato could've been killed much before the sealing process even started. See what I mean? Kushina was half of process, and they still almost failed. Without her, minato has about 1/4 of a chance to actually seal kurama

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    • Lorenzo.r.2nd wrote:

      Thekillman wrote:

      Lorenzo.r.2nd wrote: minato couldnt even seal him whole, proves that minato by himself would not have won by any means.

      Minato couldn't seal him whole in Naruto, or himself. If his intention is to seal the Kyubi as a sacrifice, he could've done so. Hell even a dying Kushina could seal it whole. But as Minato said, he couldn't let the Kyubi run free, so he used the Reaper Death Seal in order to weaken it and seal it in Naruto so he could learn to use it's power. Minato can barely handle half of the powerful chakra, so how would Naruto (a baby!) handle the whole beast? That's whats physically and conceptually impossible, not the sealing as a whole thing (since Kushina/Mito are proof that it's possible to begin with)

      Ur not getting my point. If kushina wasn't there, kurama would've been free to move around and do all kinds of shit that he couldn't do before. Just like he killed kushina before the sealing process was WHILE restrained, without kushina,minato could've been killed much before the sealing process even started. See what I mean? Kushina was half of process, and they still almost failed. Without her, minato has about 1/4 of a chance to actually seal kurama

      For the first time,I think you are right. Without Kushina,Minato might not be able to seal Kurama.

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    • I've been trying to say shit like this (that guys don't seem understand for whatever reasons) for awhile now...

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    • Lorenzo.r.2nd wrote: I've been trying to say shit like this (that guys don't seem understand for whatever reasons) for awhile now...

      But your wrong on the Minato vs Kakashi thread.

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    • Lorenzo.r.2nd wrote: Ur not getting my point. If kushina wasn't there, kurama would've been free to move around and do all kinds of shit that he couldn't do before.

      Minato doesn't need to do such things. he needed time and space to enact the reaper death seal, then seal kurama in him, then summon the altar and seal it into Naruto, all while convincing his wife it was the best idea.

      If he wants to seal Kurama up straight, all that prep goes out of the window. it's unnecessary. Minato took such a roundabout way because he wanted to preserve Kurama's power.

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    • well, hiruzen couldnt do it to orochi who is close to him in power, so if minato tries to do it so casually to someone about 100+ times stornger than him, the probablity of kurama just plain old resiting is very, very high.

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    • Lorenzo.r.2nd wrote: well, hiruzen couldnt do it to orochi who is close to him in power, so if minato tries to do it so casually to someone about 100+ times stornger than him, the probablity of kurama just plain old resiting is very, very high.

      Hiruzen was also at the verge of death and has exhausted his chakra. The fact that he could seal Orochimaru's hands away is a victory on its own.

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    • Lorenzo.r.2nd wrote: well, hiruzen couldnt do it to orochi who is close to him in power, so if minato tries to do it so casually to someone about 100+ times stornger than him, the probablity of kurama just plain old resiting is very, very high.

      Doesn't matter. Minato wouldn't have to use RDS, so it's not an issue. Eight Trigram Seal is enough.

      Besides, Hiruzen couldn't extend the arm of RDS either, and Minato could. So seems to me that comparing those two is pretty pointless in that regard.

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    • Thekillman wrote:

      Lorenzo.r.2nd wrote: well, hiruzen couldnt do it to orochi who is close to him in power, so if minato tries to do it so casually to someone about 100+ times stornger than him, the probablity of kurama just plain old resiting is very, very high.

      Doesn't matter. Minato wouldn't have to use RDS, so it's not an issue. Eight Trigram Seal is enough.

      Besides, Hiruzen couldn't extend the arm of RDS either, and Minato could. So seems to me that comparing those two is pretty pointless in that regard.

      Minato knows that "Uchiha Madara"
      

      (in quote as it was actually Tobi/Uchiha Obito)

      will definitely pose danger, and Naruto would need extra power to fight Madara. Thus he planned to put the less dangerous part of Kyuubi (the Yin part) into Naruto using Hakke no Fūin Shiki (Eight Trigrams Sealing) on Naruto because he wanted Naruto to slowly get accustomed to Kyuubi's power. This was done by deliberately designing so that the seal would weaken overtime, so that slowly, bits of Kyuubi's power would leak and be accessible by Naruto. Of course as a safeguard, he also gave the key to strengthen the seal into the toad Gerotora and left it with Jiraiya. Other than that he added an extra security measure by sealing part of his chakra into Naruto and make it so that it would activate if Naruto was about to turn into Kyuubi and re-seal the Kyuubi.

      As noted by Killer B, the seal used on the Kyuubi was of greater quality, thus better sealing strength than Tekkou Fuuin used on the Hachibi. It is reasonable to say that Hakke no Fuuin Shiki was the strongest sealing technique that Minato knows that he can modify so that it weakens a long period of time.

      So, the reason why Hakke no Fuuin Shiki was used with Naruto was clear. Now, to the meat of the question. Why didn't Minato seal the other half of the Kyuubi that he sealed into himself with the same seal and instead opted to use Shiki Fuujin.

      Shiki Fuujin was a very strong sealing technique. It was thought to be unbreakable since the technique seals the life of the intended target and caster into the Death God's belly. It was only after an extensive research by Orochimaru that he finally discovered the way to unseal it.

      Minato used Shiki Fuujin to seal the more evil, thus more dangerous part of Kyuubi into himself using Shiki Fuujin was probably because he believed that no one can/would be able to discover how to unseal it. Since he was dying and the Shiki Fuujin doesn't weaken over time, the seal was perfect to be used to seal the Kyuubi, making sure that the Yang part of Kyuubi would never shows up on the world ever again.

      As can be seen with Nohara Rin's case, if a Jinchuuriki was killed, the Bijuu would also die and would be revived at a random location after a while. This is also consistent with the fact that Akatsuki would only weaken and not kill the Jinchuuriki before extracting the Bijuu.

      If Minato used Eight Trigrams sealing to seal the Kyuubi into himself, as sealing the whole Kyuubi into Naruto was not possible since Naruto was an infant, the sealed half of Kyuubi would return to the world after Minato's death, which is should be avoided, as that half would likely to target Naruto to get the other half back. That Yang half would also be in danger of being hunted by other ninja villages and the Akatsuki. That is why Minato opted to use Shiki Fuujin, so that it would be sealed permanently.Now back to the question,Sage Mode Minato vs Tendo.Minato was watching the whole fight from within Naruto.. he saw everything from the past 16 years. I don't know if the memories of his chakra deposit clone would be transferred to his actual self though.Minato could simply mark all the Six Paths of Pain with his Flying Thunder God Technique and transport them outside of Nagato's range of transmitting chakra and win automatically.Well Naruto beat Pain with support, knowledge of their abilities and Pain at a disadvantage so. Minato has FTG. That can be basically the big issue. Sage Mode too but the Deva has Almighty Push. Pain took on a jinchūriki before and defeated it (Utakata) so just cuz Minato has Nine-Tails' chakra doesn't give him the upper hand. Minato would have gl worry about several opponents including summons such as the dog they don't poof away. Naruto was lucky the toads was there. Minato may be able to defeat Pain Sid mid to high difficulty.

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    • I still kinda think that think that statements were retconned in shippuden from the hiruzen vs minato battle guys. 1st, hiruzen was said to have been the strongest kage ever, but when minato came in, HE was stated as such. which later on changed to hashirama. like, don't u see a pattern here? this basically means that minato was again put in the same tier as old man hiruzen (who when ten years younger would've destroyed orochi, SO I WOULD ASSUME that him in his prime is obviously stronger than minato, who was right above orochi). oh, and don't the eight trigrams seal NEED the reaper death seal to kinda be put in effect or something like? ps I looked some shit up and found out that hiruzen was the strongest KAGE of his gen, putting above the 3rd raikage (whom minato cant beat), and above ohnoki (whom minato also cant beat).

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    • Again, Minato won't get to seal Kurama if Kurama is not seriously restrained like Kushina did to him. It clearly doesn't work like that and the series made it pretty clear. And i like how you all act like if Minato would magically seal Kurama, it's an automatic win for him. He would still die. There is no win for him here.

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    • Lorenzo.r.2nd wrote: 1st, hiruzen was said to have been the strongest kage ever, but when minato came in, HE was stated as such.

      Keep in mind that when people are dead, their strength is irrelevant. Hashirama may have been the strongest in his life, but once he was dead Hiruzen was the strongest, and once he became Kage Minato was the strongest. Once Minato died, Hiruzen was once more the strongest.

      It's similar to how Itachi was called Invincible even though Madara or Hashirama would stomp him like a bug: they were dead, and dead people can't fight.

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    • Thekillman wrote:

      Lorenzo.r.2nd wrote: 1st, hiruzen was said to have been the strongest kage ever, but when minato came in, HE was stated as such.

      Keep in mind that when people are dead, their strength is irrelevant. Hashirama may have been the strongest in his life, but once he was dead Hiruzen was the strongest, and once he became Kage Minato was the strongest. Once Minato died, Hiruzen was once more the strongest.

      It's similar to how Itachi was called Invincible even though Madara or Hashirama would stomp him like a bug: they were dead, and dead people can't fight.

      no. I don't think u got what I meant. or they meant, btw. it basically says that out of all the sandaime KAGES from all villages, hiruzen was the strongest. this puts him above the 3rd raikage, and ohnoki. that's what I mean.... thanks vlad. finally someone on my side... I think.. not too sure just yet...

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    • Lorenzo.r.2nd wrote: I still kinda think that think that statements were retconned in shippuden from the hiruzen vs minato battle guys. 1st, hiruzen was said to have been the strongest kage ever, but when minato came in, HE was stated as such. which later on changed to hashirama. like, don't u see a pattern here? this basically means that minato was again put in the same tier as old man hiruzen (who when ten years younger would've destroyed orochi, SO I WOULD ASSUME that him in his prime is obviously stronger than minato, who was right above orochi). oh, and don't the eight trigrams seal NEED the reaper death seal to kinda be put in effect or something like? ps I looked some shit up and found out that hiruzen was the strongest KAGE of his gen, putting above the 3rd raikage (whom minato cant beat), and above ohnoki (whom minato also cant beat).

      I hope you read my last post.

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    • I like how u quit on trying to win and have nothing better to say cuz its pretty much useless at this point.

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    • Lorenzo.r.2nd wrote: I like how u quit on trying to win and have nothing better to say cuz its pretty much useless at this point.

      You are avoided my posts,you do realise that,right? Because that post is full of FACTS

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    • yeah, I do it on purpose. its really tiring and annoying replying to u man. u legit think that minato beat kurama into submission and took its power for itself (the same kurama that can 4 other bijuu at the same time).

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    • Lorenzo.r.2nd wrote: yeah, I do it on purpose. its really tiring and annoying replying to u man. u legit think that minato beat kurama into submission and took its power for itself (the same kurama that can 4 other bijuu at the same time).

      It’s like talking to a wall.Minato did beat Kurama by sealing him.He can’t do anything as he pleases if he is sealed.

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    • I meant what u said about how he achieved kcm. oh, and sealing kurama still didn't count as an actual defeat imo. kurama could've escaped by more than one means, minato died in the process, kurama didn't, etc. that looks like minato's loss to me.

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    • there is no proof that Tendo can have all the paths in its body, if he could than Nagato would have had him use all the paths when naruto was fighting him.

      as such your parameters for this fight are shotty, Nagato was only able to equally divide his powers up between the six bodies of the Pain. his original body was the only body capable of using more than 1 Path at a time.

      which would mean that a more logical vs fight would be Minato vs the Six Paths of pain.

      since Minato is a superior sage than Jiraiya and since Nagato said that if Jiraiya had known the secret of Pain, that he would have defeated Pain, and since Minato is way smarter than jiraiya and is capable of deducing the weaknesses of a jutsu very easily, example of him beating obito after only a few moments of fighting, the only option is that Minato would win after a little bit of deduction. especially with his high levels of natural speed combined with the flying thunder god

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    • Sealing Kurama does count as defeated. Just like Naruto and Sasuke defeated Kaguya by sealing her. What are you talking about? It's like they have to be dead to be defeated when that's not the definition.

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    • @rachin. a defeat is when someone beats u to or on something. its when u lose completely. but its not an actual defeat when u die and ur enemy doenst. ur enemy can come back, but u gave ur life away. I don't see that as defeat. I do see it as a great way of stalling or stopping them. but nothing else. kaguya is a great example of that. she came back after being sealed by hagoromo and hamura. that does not make them stronger than her. and even still, vlad explains it really well. a sealing doenst just occur in the blink of an eye. both tendo and kurama would shit on minato before he even tries anything.

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    • Kurama is sealed inside Naruto. He is not capable of fighting unless Naruto taps into his power for him to take over. It's a defeat.

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    • a defeat is when u win. minato didn't win. he had to die. its totally different from kaguya's case. there was no sacrifice, or "terms" to be followed.

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    • Lorenzo.r.2nd wrote: a defeat is when u win. minato didn't win. he had to die. its totally different from kaguya's case. there was no sacrifice, or "terms" to be followed.

      Minato could have sealed the entirety of Kurama again without killing himself, by sealing Kurama back into Kushina and letting Kushina die. But that would have tipped the power balance away from Konoha.

      So he decided to seal him in Naruto. However, he couldn't seal all of Kurama into Naruto solely because Naruto's body was too small (Kushina already said he could seal Kurama back into her, and Minato himself stated Naruto was too small at the time to house all of the chakra).

      So he used the reaper death seal to seal half of Kurama into himself before sealing the rest into Naruto.

      TL;DR Minato could have sealed him all without dying if he wanted to. The reason he didn't is because he was looking out for Konoha's future.

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    • no. he would've died anyways. he summoned the thingy, so he pays the price. and if he tried, kurama would've insta killed him

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    • Lorenzo.r.2nd wrote: no. he would've died anyways. he summoned the thingy, so he pays the price. and if he tried, kurama would've insta killed him

      What did I just say?

      He didn't need to summon the Reaper. He could have just sealed all of Kurama back into Kushina with Eight Trigrams

      The only reason he didn't was because he needed Konoha to still have its Tailed Beast to keep the balance between villages.

      In fact, if it was physically possible to fit all of Kurama into Naruto, then Minato never would have died. But since Naruto was too small a container at the time, Minato had to cut Kurama in half. And by using the Reaper Seal, he made sure the other half of Kurama would never come back and wreak havoc.

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    • Lorenzo.r.2nd wrote: a defeat is when u win. minato didn't win. he had to die. its totally different from kaguya's case. there was no sacrifice, or "terms" to be followed.

      A defeat is when you fail to accomplish your goals. A Victory is when you accomplish your goals. Whether you live or die is irrelevant. Hiruzen may have lost the battle, but his sacrifice won the war. Minato died, but he accomplished what he wanted, namely both stopping the Kyubi, ensuring it was still within Konoha's care while also nurturing a new Jinchuriki that may one day control it's power.

      In those terms, it was a resounding success.

      AsianReaper wrote: He didn't need to summon the Reaper. He could have just sealed all of Kurama back into Kushina with Eight Trigrams

      I've said that 3 times before, but it doesn't seem to stick. He had no issues transferring Kurama to Naruto when he was an Edo, nor did he have any trouble sealing the remains in Naruto when he was alive. And as you mentioned, Kushina could've had the whole Biju resealed. So yea, i think it's fairly clear he could've sealed the whole of Kurama.

      Lorenzo.r.2nd wrote: no. I don't think u got what I meant. or they meant, btw. it basically says that out of all the sandaime KAGES from all villages, hiruzen was the strongest. this puts him above the 3rd raikage, and ohnoki. that's what I mean.... thanks vlad. finally someone on my side... I think.. not too sure just yet...

      The 3rd Raikage runs at people really fast. Ohnoki is strong, but also insanely fragile. What we've seen of Hiruzen, he has a whole arsenal of jutsu, virtually perfect control over 5 elements, battle intelligence etc. He's far better rounded than those other two. So yea, i see why Hiruzen was considered the strongest.

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    • Thekillman wrote:

      Lorenzo.r.2nd wrote: a defeat is when u win. minato didn't win. he had to die. its totally different from kaguya's case. there was no sacrifice, or "terms" to be followed.

      A defeat is when you fail to accomplish your goals. A Victory is when you accomplish your goals. Whether you live or die is irrelevant. Hiruzen may have lost the battle, but his sacrifice won the war. Minato died, but he accomplished what he wanted, namely both stopping the Kyubi, ensuring it was still within Konoha's care while also nurturing a new Jinchuriki that may one day control it's power.

      In those terms, it was a resounding success.

      AsianReaper wrote: He didn't need to summon the Reaper. He could have just sealed all of Kurama back into Kushina with Eight Trigrams

      I've said that 3 times before, but it doesn't seem to stick. He had no issues transferring Kurama to Naruto when he was an Edo, nor did he have any trouble sealing the remains in Naruto when he was alive. And as you mentioned, Kushina could've had the whole Biju resealed. So yea, i think it's fairly clear he could've sealed the whole of Kurama.

      Lorenzo.r.2nd wrote: no. I don't think u got what I meant. or they meant, btw. it basically says that out of all the sandaime KAGES from all villages, hiruzen was the strongest. this puts him above the 3rd raikage, and ohnoki. that's what I mean.... thanks vlad. finally someone on my side... I think.. not too sure just yet...

      The 3rd Raikage runs at people really fast. Ohnoki is strong, but also insanely fragile. What we've seen of Hiruzen, he has a whole arsenal of jutsu, virtually perfect control over 5 elements, battle intelligence etc. He's far better rounded than those other two. So yea, i see why Hiruzen was considered the strongest.

      No he couldnt have sealed the whole of Kurama. Minato sealed the dangerous part of Kurama into himself,the Yang Part. He put the less dangerous part in Naruto,the Yin part into Naruto.Hiruzen was declared the strongest in his generation. Minato would also win against Ohnoki but I dont think against the Third Raikage. The Third Raikage runs really fast as well as he has the Invincible Spear. Naruto had to beat the Third Raikage with Sage Mode but Minato sucks at that. Back to the question again,I wonder how will Minato do anything when he gets catched into Chibaku Tensei. There's no knowledge so Minato won't know about skills Tendo might use. If he uses Chibaku Tensei, Minato's teleporation will be useless. Why? Minato is smart, but even if he would Mark some points on the ground, Chibaku Tensei is created in the air from such a big area, that wherever to his mark Minato teleports he will teleport from the inside of Chibaku Tensei to the inside of Chibaku Tensei.So...Nagato is the one who controls the 6 pains.When he used shinra tensei with tendo on Konoha,the other 5 pains were in a deep sleep in order for Nagato to focus on Tendo.That to be said,tendo's powers increases if he is the only one from the 6 pains who is fighting. Also,i want you to remember the moment when Tendo pushed and made KO 3x giant toads at once,with one Shinra tensei.If minato gets too close he will end up being heavily damaged just by that skill.Shinra tensei's range can be extended on will so Minato needs to do a surprise attack.

      Dont forget that shinra tensei isnt Tendo's only defense. He can do and stay like this for few seconds,when needed:


      His body is very resistant too,he took a hell of a punch from a 4 tails,his body has been throwed into every rock in the area,he was even planted in the ground with a huge rock,another punch that throwed him back like 200m,a beast bomb too,rasengan?Sure. And all this stuff after destroying a whole village.

      Also,that water jutsu he has will slow down Minato because it will reduce his visibility and increase Tendo's speed,which is pretty good even if he doesnt surf around.


      Chibaku Tensei ? Can work,since its area is pretty big and minato can teleport only where his marks are,and if the places that have his marks are absorbed too,he hasnt got too many solutions.

      Also,tendo can fly,spam with rods,reflect ninjutsu.Banshoo ten'in can be oh help since it can destroy big areas.

      Now,lets look at Minato. He had watched within Naruto when he was fighting Pain so he would have the knowledge,right? Minato could simply mark all the Six Paths of Pain with his Flying Thunder God Technique and transport them outside of Nagato's range of transmitting chakra and win automatically. Minato wins automatically despite Pain's Jutsu's.By the way,if Naruto has knowledge and defeated all the Pains then Minato can do it with his knowledge too.

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    • Before even reading that entire wall, the very first sentences are wrong, @Naruto10647. Minato sealed the Yang into Naruto and Yin into himself. And neither is more dangerous than the other.

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    • yeah... well.. anyways, minato loses to any kurama as well as to deva path. simple. problem solved.

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    • Lorenzo.r.2nd wrote: yeah... well.. anyways, minato loses to any kurama as well as to deva path. simple. problem solved.

      And yet when your argument was proven wrong from every angle, you refuse to acknowledge it and then revert to saying he loses. Despite it being clear that he had the capability to win.

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    • what every angle? I was talking about kurama the whole time lol hahahaha but this battle is agiasnt tendo, who I have yet to mention dude lol this is full power, full concentration tendo, who is a town leveler (or island leveler with the chibaku tensei) every time he uses a shinra tensei with enough force (his casual ones can throw sm Naruto, and three boss summons, who about are infinitely stronger than minato). whats minato gonna do? seal him? the moment he stops moving, he dies. there is no way around this. and a rasengan wont do it either. tendo tanked 6 tails' hits (4 tailed Naruto leveled a forest in his fight against orochimaru lol) so rasengans are pretty much trash in this match. and its impossible for minato to even throw a kunai at him (aka only means of minato getting close to him). how do u see minato winning this at al??

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    • Lorenzo.r.2nd wrote: what every angle? I was talking about kurama the whole time lol hahahaha but this battle is agiasnt tendo, who I have yet to mention dude lol this is full power, full concentration tendo, who is a town leveler (or island leveler with the chibaku tensei) every time he uses a shinra tensei with enough force (his casual ones can throw sm Naruto, and three boss summons, who about are infinitely stronger than minato). whats minato gonna do? seal him? the moment he stops moving, he dies. there is no way around this. and a rasengan wont do it either. tendo tanked 6 tails' hits (4 tailed Naruto leveled a forest in his fight against orochimaru lol) so rasengans are pretty much trash in this match. and its impossible for minato to even throw a kunai at him (aka only means of minato getting close to him). how do u see minato winning this at al??

      Lol watch.

      Yeah Shinra Tensei can move Minato, but FTG kinda makes it useless. He gets pulled, he just teleports away. He gets pushed, he teleports further away. Minato has kunai all over the Land of Fire. If Tendo tries to use the full Konoha destruction one to take out Minato, Minato just leaves and then comes back while Tendo is recharging.

      Three boss summons infinitely stronger than Minato? Where? Minato literally saw the most destructive jutsu a Tailed Beast can make, by the strongest Tailed Beast, and said "don't f*ck with me* and teleported it away. He can just touch those summons and suddenly they're miles away.

      Minato is faster than any pain. He can easily tag hits and disappear before they retaliate.

      Rasengan won't beat Tendo? As if Naruto didn't use the Rasengan to beat Tendo? Nice argument you have there.

      Also if you wanna talk about Tailed Beast Tail levels, Jiraiya and Orochimaru are both at a level where they can beat Four Tails. The only reason Jiraiya was injured is because he was actively trying to not harm Naruto. And Minato is known to be stronger than both Jiraiya and Orochimaru. So since those two are above four tails, then Minato is far above four tails. Basically 6 tails is not too much for him.

      Minato has insanely fast Body Flicker, shown several times throughout the series. He does not need FTG to get close to Tendo. Even if he did, what's gonna happen? He just throws two kunai, two seconds apart. When one is pushed away, he uses the second one to get in close, leaving a full second to land any hit/sealing he wants.

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    • shinra tensei moves all things around him INCLUDING FTG MARKINGS LOL. and if it can destroy a whole village, where is minato gonna teleport to survive it? hmm? cuz for that to happen, he would had time to prepare, which is not happening, so he will get hit no matter, since all his markings are inside the village. can u prove that he has a bunch of useless kunai, which are hard to get and make according to himself, all over a country laying around? and he is faster, but pain's reaction time to speed is higher than 6 tails Naruto, who is faster than ay, so physically blitzing tendo isn't happening either (and that a was weaker pain btw). u mean Naruto beat a super ultra destroyed, no chakra left pain with a rasengan that was moving faster than sound that had all his chakra in it? if so, that's useless here, since this pain is at full power, so he will either dodge, or repel it. and lol how can u say that minato is stronger than a summon? summons level forests by swinging their swords, and u wanna tell me that minato is more powerful that that strength wise?... jiraya and orochimaru SURVIVED a fight against 4 tails Naruto, and they were both in base, and used no jutsu (orochi used a useless sword and fodder snakes). and minato has yet to prove to be stronger than them. when he gets to a level where can fight armored susanoo itachi, and almost beat pain (all six at full power) then I will concede and say he is stronger. until then, I believe not. and yes, 6 tails is too much for him. 5 and 4 tails would be his lvl, since he isn't anywhere near sm jiraya and 8 headed snake orochi feat wise. and not insanely fast body flicker. he is slower than ay, who is slower than kcm Naruto who is as fast as 6 tails, whom tendo caught by surprise and reacted to multiple times. so like I said, he aint blitzing tendo any time soon. and like I said, tendo just needs to use almighty push on all directions, and ur whole strategy is trash, since there is nowhere NOT dangerous for minato to teleport to

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    • Lorenzo.r.2nd wrote: jiraya and orochimaru SURVIVED a fight against 4 tails Naruto, and they were both in base, and used no jutsu (orochi used a useless sword and fodder snakes). and minato has yet to prove to be stronger than them.

      For this argument alone, I'm done arguing with you lol. This level of logic and lack of understanding of the series is just hard to correct at this point. Believe what you want lol

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    • what level of logic? u gonna tell me that that's not what happened? is that ur what saying lol? cuz then IM the one that's not gonna argue with u anymore lol what lack of understanding? jiraya himself said that he barely survived hahaha and orochimari is different from jiraya in the first place. he didn't die cuz of a resurrection jutsu, which if he didn't have, he would've died, like I said. jiraya is kinda the same case, but he had a seal to stop Naruto. what did orachimaru do Naruto? land a punch? or not get obliterated by a BB? cuz as far I remember, that's exactly what happened. if they were serious, that's a different story, but it still doenst mean that they would've won. orochi was giving it about 75% of his power right (he was injured and sick and shit like that, plus he had a bunch other jutsu to use, but he still showed no signs of being capable of keeping up with, or damaging Naruto. at all). if they were at full power, sure they would've beaten Naruto, but in base, they have almost no chance.

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    • Lorenzo.r.2nd wrote: what level of logic? u gonna tell me that that's not what happened? is that ur what saying lol? cuz then IM the one that's not gonna argue with u anymore lol what lack of understanding? jiraya himself said that he barely survived hahaha and orochimari is different from jiraya in the first place. he didn't die cuz of a resurrection jutsu, which if he didn't have, he would've died, like I said. jiraya is kinda the same case, but he had a seal to stop Naruto. what did orachimaru do Naruto? land a punch? or not get obliterated by a BB? cuz as far I remember, that's exactly what happened. if they were serious, that's a different story, but it still doenst mean that they would've won. orochi was giving it about 75% of his power right (he was injured and sick and shit like that, plus he had a bunch other jutsu to use, but he still showed no signs of being capable of keeping up with, or damaging Naruto. at all). if they were at full power, sure they would've beaten Naruto, but in base, they have almost no chance.

      Uh,your logic is dumb as f**k. Minato can just use Flying Rajiin and boom. Rasengan! However,its not easy as that,dont forget the other Pains.Well I don't know about you guys but I for one think that the Tendo and the other Pains and Minato (Lorenzo probably wont think this since his logic is actually dumb) would be a pretty even match. Bearing in mind nagato has to divide his chakra and powers roughly six ways to use all of the six paths, but as each falls the others can't (as far as I know) that paths power without using the King of the Underworld. If I had to guess I'd say the mechanical and summoning paths would be the first to fall or the least effective as Minato is fast enough to give the summoner no time to use her power. Next Minato would need to eliminate the path controlling the King of the Underworld. The path that can absorb chakra and jutsu would probably be the trickiest especially if he and Tendo work in concert. But Minato is a genius so he could probably beat Tendo if he kept far enough back and used the Flying Raijin Mark and Rasengan in quick enough succession. As for how he might defeat the absorbing path when it's ability makes virtually any jutsu that brings its caster close to it useless I'm not sure. Also in this battle I would say that the Six Paths greatest weakness is their shared vision. Minato is fast enough he would force the paths to maximize how much they can see, form a circle or ring in other words. But that would only make things easier for Minato.

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    • @Lorenzo

      Minato has kunai all around the village and even outside the village, as we see in the Obito vs Minato incident. Minato even had one of his kunai by the ocean. So tell me, why are you saying he can't teleport to those?

      I see this is another thread where you are downplaying Minato. You may not like him, but that doesn't mean you can disregard his feats and abilities.

      Maybe try to explain how you think the fight will proceed, instead of trying to explain your logic.

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    • Ninja Of War wrote: @Lorenzo

      Minato has kunai all around the village and even outside the village, as we see in the Obito vs Minato incident. Minato even had one of his kunai by the ocean. So tell me, why are you saying he can't teleport to those?

      I see this is another thread where you are downplaying Minato. You may not like him, but that doesn't mean you can disregard his feats and abilities.

      Maybe try to explain how you think the fight will proceed, instead of trying to explain your logic.

      Your absolutely right and I hate Danzo yet I think that he would win against Shisui since Danzo has Shisui's other eye.

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    • not really. on the contrary (i think i have more of a grasp now). i DO like minato, but ur the ones OVERHYPING him. he is are 5/4 tails level. nothing below, and although i do see him winning against full power tendo in sm, i don't see him even damaging tendo during this. like, at all. oh yeah, did yall watch that new cloverfield paradox on netfilx? that shit is messed up af..

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    • ^Nice dodge on my question btw. Over-hyping? Lol, just because we use actual feats, don't mean we over-hyping. You on the other hand are downplaying Minato.

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    • didn't even see u had a question. ok, why do I say that he doesn't have them, or why he cant teleport to them? and u are really overhyping him. he has no feats that put him on tendo's lol that's what's overhyping. going back to the question- the one good example that u gave- the one kunai in the ocean- was put there by minato as an edo most likely than not (otherwise, he would have no use for that, while edo minato did know about the bijuu scattering around from his yin kurama, so his prep as an edo would've made more sense, than a prep to a peaceful, non war prepared alive minato. see what I mean?) and how am I downplaying someone who has no feats to put him on the lvl u think he is, so its not even downplaying. its just plain lack of feats. imma make a list of good feats for him- faster than tobirama (physically, and just barely, btw), can make one handed rasengan with either hand, has reaction time close to kcm Naruto (maybe the same, but Naruto has sensing along with that, so u put him a little below), can out maneuver ms sharingans (that is a good feat, but slower characters have done the same in the past- killer bee, Naruto, TENDO, etc..), can swing a kunai (special kunai, so I assume that he cant really spam this with just anything in his reach), smart enough to be comparable to hiruzen (who has about 3 times his age along with experience), high af chakra control, can use sm (albeit weaker than usual, its still perfect hence his high af chakra control), and maybe a few more. without sm, he wont be on full powered tendo's lvl just yet.

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    • @Lorenzo

      Just so you know, the Deva Path tanking all the hits of the 4-tails Naruto was anime only. I'm all for considering anime feats, be even I know that was bs. In the manga, the Deva Path made sure to steer clear of him. It's contradicting as well, unless you believe that Naruto's Rasengan is stronger than his 4-Tails version; because that's what Naruto killed the Deva Path with.

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    • then take that feat out. like, tbh, his almighty push and pull are so op now that he is at full power that it would just be useless, since I don't see him getting hit. I see him getting attacked but....

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    • Lorenzo.r.2nd wrote: then take that feat out. like, tbh, his almighty push and pull are so op now that he is at full power that it would just be useless, since I don't see him getting hit. I see him getting attacked but....

      Those abilities have a 5 second cooldown. In Minato-time, that's virtually infinity. He was able to strike Obito in a fraction of a second. Hell even Naruto was able to close the gap to Tendo with just throwing himself.

      The moment Deva uses his ability is the moment Minato can strike incredibly hard. He's faster than Sage Mode Naruto by a considerable margin as well.

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    • @Lorenzo I hope you understand this.

      Minato of course has the speed advantage, plus Flying Thunder God. So even with the Rinnegan's shared field of vision, Pain would have trouble keeping up. The problem would be actually getting the FTG seals on them. He could just use Flying Thunder God Step Two, but the Rinnegan's shared field of vision would keep an eye on any thrown kunai. But Minato can just use Flying Thunder God Rasen Flash Super Circle Dance Howl Stage Three to give Pain problems with tracking kunai. He also has Sage Mode as a counter to that too. He has physical options to counter the Preta Path body, and Summons to counter the Animal Path body(I was gonna say he could just use a Contract Seal, but Pain's Summons are controlled by Black Receivers on their bodies, making the seal useless). He also has Flying Thunder God Guiding Thunder to counter any Chakra Blasts from the Asura Path body. And of course Minato would be able to figure about the secrets of the Pain bodies since he's a genius. He would also be fast enough to exploit the Deva Path body's 5 second interval between Shinra Tensei usage. He should be able to catch the Deva Path body before it gets close enough to Pain to be powerful enough to use Chibaku Tensei. Which doesn't really matter as Minato could just teleport and cut down the body before the gravitational pull overwhelms him. Minato wins with medium-high difficulty.

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    • Didn't Minato literally make a Lightning Armor Raikage look slow as hell as he threw a flying Raijin while the said Raikage tried to punch him? Can Pain even hit Minato? I mean the dude's faster than A even when he has Lightning Armor equipped without his Flying Raijin. Doesn't Minato also have like Kunai all over the Shinobi world? Whenever Pain tries to hit him, what stops him from teleportating thousands of miles away and returning once the attack is over? Minato is basically Batman to be honest. I mean. How can Pain even hit Minato?

      Scenario: -Pain uses Push- -Minato teleports thousands of miles away and then returns back instantly after the technique missed then at full speed, the same speed he was able to beat the Raikage with, Rasengan's him before the five seconds are up-

      I don't see how a puppet can even hope to keep up with someone as fast as Minato. It's going to be Genin Sasuke vs Genin Lee all over again except way faster with a quick ending.

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    • I wanna try and take this outta the way real fast (if u agree that is, which most of u wont, but ill try)- the 5 second cool down was a thing only to semi-dead nagata+damaged tendo body, and to all 6 paths working at 100% all at the same time. if u take a healthy af nagato, who is only using tendo and nobody, the time limit would be at least halved. minato can obviously attack in the small time lapse, I don't doubt that, but he will need to waste at least 1 second to throw kunais in the correct places, and all after teleporting back to konoha from somewhere else, cuz of tendo's all sided shinra tensei. that would be about 1.5-2 secs. at most. tendo reacted to a FRS that crossed konoha in 4 secs. I don't think that minato is physically that fast, and I don't think that tendo's reaction time is that slow, since he reacted to something at least comparable to minato. just putting it out there. yall get hyped cuz minato is real fast and shit, and but forget that tendo has been one the fastest character even before the ftg was introduced.

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    • @Lorenzo

      Let's be very honest. The final moments of Pain's fight was pure plot. How could Naruto have the time to disguise shadow clones as debris without the Deva Path even noticing? Also, SM Naruto has no speed feat comparable to that distance to actually be able to cross it in 5 seconds. And like others said, if Naruto could do it, most surely Minato, a much faster and better strategist can do it.

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    • ... I do think there was plot in that fight (like the debris thingy), but sm Naruto blitzed the asura path, the most physically endowed path, so he had to be faster than that FRS by logic. minato is fast, and stronger than base pain arc Naruto (at max, so that means that minato base> 100+ Naruto clones+ frs, and whatnot. and that's saying a lot. although I think that 4th war kakashi> base minato, I will say that pain arc kakashi has> base war arc Naruto, by feats), but I don't think that he is sm Naruto lvl. at all. and yes, minato IS faster than tendo, but not by much. u are ALL disregarding what im saying about his speed feats. like totally.

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    • One quick question , so basically this is Tendo Pain , with all six paths of pain abilities?

      That part confuses me.

      Now as for fight , Tendo pain is my favorite char in whole Naruto , the only reason why i start to follow Naruto series in the first place was because of Tendo. Now if he got only his Tendo power as much as i love him , he stand no chance vs Minato even if Minato has no knowledge over his abilities.

      Now if you put Pain with all abilities in one body similar like Nagato , o well i would go with Pain on this one , but am really not sure. Minato even outmatched Kamui in fight , i really don't know. Maybe 6 out of 10 for Pain.

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    • Likely Scenario:

      Minato and Pein meet on the battle field. Since it wasn't stated they would know about each other, they have no clue who the enemy is that stands before them. All they do know is they have to kill each other. Since this Pein has all Pein abilities, he would likely start off by summoning since this is usually his first move always in a fight. He summons the creatures, meanwhile Minato is tossing his Kunai around. He even throws some at Pein since this is a common tactic Minato does, shown in his fight with the Raikage and his fight against Obito. Minato according to the DP, is in Sage Mode and has mastery over it, so he conjures fourth a Senjutsu infused Rasengan. As the Kunai get's near Pein, Pein either dodges or repulses it away. Either way, Minato instantly appears where his Raijin is, and with his top base speeds increased insanely by the Sage Mode, he blitz Pein, hitting him with a Senjutsu Rasengan. (This is where things get complicated, does Pein retain knowledge on his fight with Naruto?) The reason it's complicated is Preta Path will absorb the Rasengan. Pein if he has no knowledge of Naruto, will try to absorb the Senjutsu from Minato at that moment, and lose. With knowledge on Sage Mode, he won't. He might not even try to absorb the Senjutsu infused Rasengan. If he doesn't he dies from the blow. If he does and doesn't turn to stone, he tries to hit Minato, but Minato is just too fast for him or any of the summoning's to hit. Minato will continually use his speed to hit Pein with a Senjutsu infused Rasengan, and eventually turn Pein into stone. I don't see Pein winning cause he does not possess the capability of hitting Minato in Sage Mode. Even if he were to pull him in, Minato can teleport to Konohagakure and then return in an instant. It's instant, not a second or two, instant. If this method fails however, I can see Minato using what Naruto did, using the nature energy to hit him up close then capitalizing on it with enhanced strength granted by Sage Mode, destroying the puppet. I just can't see Pein capable of hitting Minato.

      If anyone thinks otherwise, counter the scenario with how Pein would react to what I provided above.

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    • oh this is composite pain and sm minato? well, not to be annyiong again, but this is even worst then normal tendo vs base minato lol sm minato is about kcm Naruto's lvl. the same kcm Naruto who got stomped by edo nagato, who is likely weaker than the pain were using here

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    • Lorenzo.r.2nd wrote: oh this is composite pain and sm minato? well, not to be annyiong again, but this is even worst then normal tendo vs base minato lol sm minato is about kcm Naruto's lvl. the same kcm Naruto who got stomped by edo nagato, who is likely weaker than the pain were using here

      To give some extra proof,here it is:

      Pain stated that he wouldn’t have won against Jiraiya in a fair fight.And Minato portrayed as stronger than the sannin a couple of times in the show.

      Minato got enough speed,intelligence abilities and assets to defeat Pain and avoid everything that Pain can offer.Mindsets,conditions,knowledge and location can change the outcome or at least the level of difficulty.

      Pain defeated Kakashi who is inferior to Minato, Pain defeated Jiraiya who is slightly inferior to Minato And 6th tail Chakra Mode Naruto pushed Pain to the extreme diffuculties and Minato was able to deal with all of the tails. It is also stated that he invented the Rasengan while observing the tailed beasts.

      Minato defeats Pain.

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    • @Lorenzo "sm minato is about kcm Naruto's lvl. the same kcm Naruto who got stomped by edo nagato, who is likely weaker than the pain were using here" You failed to realize that Pein can't do anything to Minato since he can't even hit him. Name a single way he can, and I can easily state how Minato counters. Stop saying Minato loses when Pein can't even hit him.

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    • really, guys, then what will minato do if he wins so easily? like, give me a scenario where he wins. cuz this is composite prime pain basically. he can spam normal shinra tensei's (the 5 sec rule is likely even smaller now), has 5 summons who cant be put down by minato no matter what he tries, and about 3 to 4 of pains attacks are one shots in this case.

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    • @Lorenzo.

      "he can spam normal shinra tensei's (the 5 sec rule is likely even smaller now)" No he can't spam it. There's a /minimal/ of five seconds of delayed time. You saying otherwise does not work. It was stated in the Manga, written by Kishimoto himself in Chapter 427. Author > You. And when Pein hit's him with Shinra Tensei, all Minato has to do is teleport. Boom. Now Minato has 5 seconds before Pein can do it again.

      "has 5 summons who cant be put down by minato no matter what he tries" Who can't even hit Minato, so they're useless.

      "and about 3 to 4 of pains attacks are one shots in this case." Which also cannot hit him.

      Meanwhile. Minato can punch Pein and destroy his body. Naruto didn't even have to touch one and used Nature energy to kill a Pein, using a missed punch as a trick, which was then revived afterwards.

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    • dude, he has been spamming it every five secs, even while weakened lol what do u mean? and of ocurse the 5 sec rule will be shortened since he is much stronger. and edo nagato used a huge ass shinra tensei with no signs of fatigue, even though other edo's have shown signs of lack of chakra and being tired (aka minato when fighting obito, hashirama vs madara, itachi vs kabuto). if this pain is stronger than edo nagato, the 5 sec rule is obviously shortened. so having 5 immortal (cuz minato cant kill them, and not cuz they are actually immortal) are toally useless? they can all one shot him as well, since they damaged kcm Naruto, whose durability is higher than the raikage's, so one hit from any of them, and minato is dead. same for pain's one shotters. and minato wont be hitting him either lol. shinra tensei will protect him from about every thing. if minato throws kunai's around him, he will just shinra tensei all of them. and minato punch pain and destroy his body?? lol hahaha so now minato can hit harder than a resengan and killer bee's lariat? hahahaha lol and why did use frog kata as an example lol? u don't have anything to compare it to, so u don't even know how strong it really is. for all we know, it could also one shot that by big ass rhino. and minato's sm is much weaker than naruto's. a sage mode Naruto feat=/= a sage mode minato feat.

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    • @Lorenzo "and of ocurse the 5 sec rule will be shortened since he is much stronger." So you're stating Kishimoto is wrong and you are right and you make the rules on how everything works? No. Kishimoto stated in the manga that Shinra takes a minimal of five seconds to recharge. Minimal. Means the lowest possible time. Nothing can be less than minimal. Which means, the lowest possible time it can take Shinra to recharge is 5 seconds. Kishimoto stated that and he is the God of the Narutoverse, not you. This means it does not matter how strong you get, the lowest time it can take Shinra to recharge is 5 seconds until Kishimoto states otherwise.

      "so having 5 immortal (cuz minato cant kill them, and not cuz they are actually immortal) are toally useless? they can all one shot him as well, same for pain's one shotters" Sure is. You can be as strong as you want. You can have the power to shatter a planet if you want. But if you can't hit the target, then what good is it? Explain to me which summoning and technique has the speed necessary to hit one of the fastest Shinobi in existence?

      "f minato throws kunai's around him, he will just shinra tensei all of them" Why would he do that? He doesn't know Minato. He's never seen him before or know what he looks like. He's never seen Flying Raijin before. The DP also hasn't given them knowledge of each other. So your point is mute. Even if he does Shinra them, they still exist? They aren't destroyed. They just moved LOL.

      "minato punch pain and destroy his body?? lol hahaha so now minato can hit harder than a resengan and killer bee's lariat?" Ummm. Have you not seen what Sage Mode does? Did you not see a tiny weak toad lift a giant statue or Gamabunta himself with ease? Cause I did. And if you have the strength to pick up a frog that makes the ground shake every time it moves, then you have enough strength to decimate a small humanoid like Pein's puppet who get's destroyed by a simple Rasengan.

      "frog kata as an example lol?" Uh what? I have no idea what you are talking about. I never mentioned a frog named Kata?

      "minato's sm is much weaker than naruto's." Wrong. Scroll up and read the description. This isn't regular Minato Sage Mode, this is "Fully Mastered Sage Mode Minato with Hiraishin vs Tendo". Minato in fully mastered Sage Mode. Meaning his Sage Mode is not incomplete anymore and has fully mastered it according to the DP. Therefore you saying it is weaker than Naruto's is no longer valid.

      "a sage mode Naruto feat=/= a sage mode minato feat." Wrong again. Naruto's based speed is a lot slower than Minatos. Minato can move as fast as Raikage with his Lightning Armor. Naruto cannot do that without Kurama's cloak. Sage Mode increases Minato's already insane speed to further speeds. No way can Pein hope to keep up.

      Now then. Since you seem to think Pein can win, all I ask for you to do to prove it, is name one way Pein or anything he can use, hit Minato. Just one way. I've already provided a way for Minato to hit Pein. Minato obviously has the speed to do it. In Mastered Sage Mode, he is probably the fastest Shinobi outside those with Sixth Paths Chakra.

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    • Extra proof again!

      Teleportation Jutsu would work to help him overcome the push /pull pain’s ability. he could teleport away when he was being pulled and when he attacks and is pushed away he could throw one of his kunai and teleport to it or a mark he put on that pain’s body and attack in that five second interval.

      When he gets close enough to touch the bodies of pain he can put his marking on them giving him a spot to teleport to which would make it hard to defend against him, especially when he is using something like the rasengan. He might also be able to teleport away those summoned monsters.

      Or he could teleport the bodies of pain to seperate spots (ex: grabbing them and teleporting to that spot and teleporting back by himself) and then he could beat them one on one.

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    • I quit on this thread lol u wanna act all smart assy but don't even know what frog kata is. and his sm was already fully mastered. if it wasn't, he wouldn't have been a perfect sage. and kishimoto never stated anything that u just said. kakashi said that the least time it takes to recharge, depending on the size of the attack, is 5 secs, meaning it could be shorter. and kakashi=/= kishimoto. a kinda like how zetsu said that itachi is invincible (which isn't true at all). if u take like that, then all the rumors about madara being stronger than raditz are true as well lol and yall don't seem to care for what a one shot is. it means that minato's body would be turned to a pulp at max, and at all a minimum, all his organs would be ruptured. heck lol pain is strong enough to impale sm Naruto with one of those rods. if they weren't in his hands and feet, he would've died.

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    • Lorenzo.r.2nd wrote: I quit on this thread lol u wanna act all smart assy but don't even know what frog kata is. and his sm was already fully mastered. if it wasn't, he wouldn't have been a perfect sage. and kishimoto never stated anything that u just said. kakashi said that the least time it takes to recharge, depending on the size of the attack, is 5 secs, meaning it could be shorter. and kakashi=/= kishimoto. a kinda like how zetsu said that itachi is invincible (which isn't true at all). if u take like that, then all the rumors about madara being stronger than raditz are true as well lol and yall don't seem to care for what a one shot is. it means that minato's body would be turned to a pulp at max, and at all a minimum, all his organs would be ruptured. heck lol pain is strong enough to impale sm Naruto with one of those rods. if they weren't in his hands and feet, he would've died.

      You're clearly avoiding my statement. Minato could simply mark all the Six Paths of Pain with his Flying Thunder God Technique and transport them outside of Nagato's range of transmitting chakra and win automatically.And since he watched within Naruto when he was fighting Pain,he has all of Pain's knowledge including his rinnegan abilities.This will help him in battle and he would've already figured out a plan to beat Pain.Or he could teleport the bodies of pain to seperate spots (ex: grabbing them and teleporting to that spot and teleporting back by himself) and then he could beat them one on one.

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    • but he really couldn't lol why do u make him faster than he is? he cant just teleport wherever he wants. and it takes up chakra too. he isn't even faster than the raikage for Christ's sake, who is slower than kcm Naruto who is equal to 6 tails Naruto, whom pain kept up with and even surprised. and how would he know the range, since u just said that they have no knowledge? huh? he wouldn't even know that they are dead, much less that there is a 7th person. and u don't think that studied minato before? he was jiraya's pupil AFTER jiraya taught minato. he obviously knew of his existence.

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    • Lorenzo.r.2nd wrote: but he really couldn't lol why do u make him faster than he is? he cant just teleport wherever he wants. and it takes up chakra too. he isn't even faster than the raikage for Christ's sake, who is slower than kcm Naruto who is equal to 6 tails Naruto, whom pain kept up with and even surprised. and how would he know the range, since u just said that they have no knowledge? huh? he wouldn't even know that they are dead, much less that there is a 7th person. and u don't think that studied minato before? he was jiraya's pupil AFTER jiraya taught minato. he obviously knew of his existence.

      For god sake,Minato is faster than the Raikage. KCM Naruto's speed is equal to Minato's speed. Minato could keep up with 6 Tails,infact,he handled them with all of his tails. He also has knowledge since he watched within Naruto when he was fighting Pain. Im not making him faster than he his. And you havent even studied Minato yourself whereas I have. 6 Tails = Pain kept up. All of tails = Minato handled.

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    • what feats make him faster than the raikage? what feats put minato as fast as kcm Naruto? what feats prove that he could keep up with 6 tailed Naruto? what feat says that he handled "them" with all his tails? and this is a no knowledge fight. it doenst matter what he knows, since in this thread he doenst know it anymore.

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    • @Lorenzo

      Minato's reaction speed is faster than the Raikage though. Pain never kept up with 6-Tails Naruto's speed. In the manga, he literally relies on his push/pull abilities to gain distance for him to use his Chibaku Tensei.

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    • that means that he wont have trouble fighting someone slower. he sm Naruto, who is faster than 1/6 asura path. that's pretty damn fast. if minato is equal to that, the he will have almost 0 problems in getting blitzed.

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    • @Lorenzo

      You just make stuff up as you go don't you? I asked one simple question. Name a way Pein can hit Minato. You couldn't. So therefore you lose the argument. Minato is faster than the Raikage, Raikage stated it himself. Speed is not teleportation so it was not because Minato possessed the Flying Raijin, teleportation does not make you move faster, it just makes you able to teleport. And Kishimoto did state all that. It is located in the Databook, written by Kishimoto himself, so again, you are wrong. Before trying to argue and state "Pein wins cause he one shots" without saying how he can even hit Minato, is just bs. I suggest you read jutsu and character abilities in the Databook before arguing. Good day.

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    • I did lol actually, I gave u 5 one shots that u just ignored.

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    • @Lorenzo

      No you didn't, show me. State how he uses it, what it does, and how it hits him.

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    • ok. say that minato does go with the ftg at first. he will either spread it out at first, or throw it at pain's face. 1st scenario- the pains will all either group together, or spread out. either way, his all-field kunai plan was useless (if they spread, each pain will have a better field of vision, thus making it easier to find out how the ftg works, and if they group together, the possibility of minato getting oneshot is multiplied by 6, since they are all in the same place). 2nd scenario- better tactic than the 1st one. he might take one of the pains out. one. after this, they will have learned how ftg works, will most likely revive said body, and go for the attack for whatever plan fits the battlefield. minato wont get away instantly from that though, since he didn't spread out his kunai, so he will have to outspeed them. this will work, but not for long. actually, 30 secs max, since two of them can fly. if he is found out, and still hasn't spread out his kunai (cuz he was being chased from 6 different sides), the one shotters path will attack (asura, deva, animal, and maybe chakra absorbing path). he can dodge one or two of those attacks, but not all. since they are all one shotters, and all stronger than his rasengan, he can neither counterattack, nor recuperate to later retaliate. say that during that 30 or so second time lapse that it took to find him, he did spread out those kunai- they didn't cover the whole field at all. likely only a few meters, since all sides were surrounded by pains. he would have to teleport in between 10-30 meters max. considering that all pains are hyper sonic, that distance can be covered as if it were nothing, even if minatio's teleport is instantaneous. and another thing, he has a definite number of kunai and chakra. he wont be teleporting 10-30 meters forever. the moment he stops, he dies.

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    • @Lorenzo

      You already lost the argument the moment you said there was 6 pains. Go read the fight description, it's only Tendo Pein vs Mastered Sage Mode Minato. 1 Pein. 1 set of Rinnegan. And I'm pretty sure, Sage Mode Minato > 4th Raikage Lightning Armor > Sage Mode Naruto > Peins. So Pein won't be hitting Minato with anything. If he couldn't hit Naruto without pull and push, he certainly ain't hitting Minato. Too bad Minato is immune to push and pull since when it is done, he teleports and breaks the jutsu whenever it happens.

      So again, provide a way Pein can hit Minato.

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    • naruto10 or whatever was his name was using all pains, so I just changed it up thinking that it was the correct character being used. but yeah, u lost the argument the moment u though that that made a difference. everything I said still applies. and I don't care what ur sure about, since ay's armor tanked a chidori while sm Naruto couldn't even tank pains rods. and it seems like u didn't even read my comment, even though u asked me to write it lol hahahaha

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    • @Lorenzo

      You just state Pein's abilities. That doesn't tell me they are fast enough to hit Minato. Or a way Pein can ensure they do. What does tanking a chidori have to do with speed? Minato isn't taking the hits, he is dodging them? So your points are invalid until you prove Pein can /hit/ him. I never said Pein wouldn't damage Minato if he could hit him, I said he can't hit Minato cause Minato is too fast.

      Sage Mode Minato > Raikage with Lightning Armor > Sage Mode Naruto > Peins. This is in terms of speed. Pein couldn't keep up with Sage Naruto and needed push and pull to even hit him. Sage Naruto couldn't keep up with 4th Raikage and needed Kurama's cloak. 4th Raikage said he was slower than Minato even with his Lightning Armor. Not only that, but Minato is even faster with mastered Sage Mode. He is literally a god of speed now. No way Pein can hit him.

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    • and? that gives him the win why? he has less chakra than nagato, so he wont outlast him by just teleporting the whole time. he wont damage him enough to kill him either. his speed is useless, and I gave u the reason why on the comment that explained how pain would win.

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    • @Lorenzo

      No you didn't. The comment you made doesn't explain how he hits him, only that he hits him. With that same logic, I can say Minato hits Pein and Pein can't do anything about it, with a Rasengan which has proven to be able to kill a Pein. It doesn't work like that. And he will damage him enough to kill him. Naruto was able to kill a Pein with a fake punch, Minato who can lift Gamabunta, can decimate a Pein. His speed is useless? Now you sound like a kindergartner. Being able to dodge everything Pein can dish out is not useless. Hitting Pein before he can even blink, is not useless. Give me a real challenge here. Your argument is weak at the moment.

      All I got to say at this point. Sage Mode Minato > Raikage with Lightning Armor > Sage Mode Naruto > Peins.

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    • dude, can u not read? I gave the reason why minato couldn't dodge, which u for some reason keep repeating. can u not understand what I explained in that comment? and it wasn't a fake punch man. its called frog kata. and why do I care that he can lift gamabunta? a basic shinra tensei can do that times 4 lol and u cant get that dodging wont give him the win. if im a kindergartener, then ur not even born yet. my arguments may be weak, but I don't need anything stronger than that, since im dealing with u. I gave the simplest possible reasons, but u always go back to ur old argument "he cant be hit. ever". if I said jesus would whoop his ass, u would say "hows he gonna catch him?"

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    • I can read properly, you just can't spell correctly thus makes it hard to understand what you type. I read your comments and I don't see anywhere that states Minato won't be able to dodge. Unless you are talking about the comment about the sixth paths of pein with summonings, which isn't possible since this fight is with only ONE pein. The summonings couldn't hit Jiraiya or Naruto, so they wouldn't be hitting Minato. If you want me to understand you properly, then try speaking coherent English. Why do you care if he can lift Gamabunta? Cause, smart one, if he can lift Gamabunta, he certainly has enough strength to destroy Pein's body with a single punch. Duh. I only need the reason he can't be hit, cause you have provided no way Pein can hit him. If you think you have, then copy and paste it alone by itself. If you just say "I already said it" then I know you are just speaking bs and playing pretend. Paste what you said after this comment on how Pein can hit Minato. That's all you got to do. You don't need to address anything else other than that cause that's the argument here.

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    • I tell you,Minato has Kunai all over the village,if he does chibaku Tensei or some shit,he can teleport miles and miles away.

      Scenario - Pain does Chibaku Tensei,Minato throws a Marked Kunai which Pain would think a normal kunai,Pain dodges it and the kunai lands on the ground (Minato’s kunai is next to Pain) Minato teleports far and far away since Chibaku Tensei is happening. After it has happened,he would teleport to the marked kunai and Rasengan him.

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    • read the part about one shotters. I mention the summonings in there, who can range from 4 to 10, depeding on the circumstances. so its basically nagato+ 4-10 summons. that's more than 6 pains aint it? and u still keep on with the didge tactic. like I said, that will never give him the win. u just say that he will teleport when pain shinra tenseis, and that's it. u stop there. whats he gonna deo next? he gonna have to get close to land those kunai around pain. if he does, he will have to keep teleporting back and forth, since the moment he does get close, he will have be attacked. u are legit saying that he wins against someone who is equivalent to killer, kcm, and itachi (as an edo, none the less) cuz he can teleport.

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    • Lorenzo.r.2nd wrote: read the part about one shotters. I mention the summonings in there, who can range from 4 to 10, depeding on the circumstances. so its basically nagato+ 4-10 summons. that's more than 6 pains aint it? and u still keep on with the didge tactic. like I said, that will never give him the win. u just say that he will teleport when pain shinra tenseis, and that's it. u stop there. whats he gonna deo next? he gonna have to get close to land those kunai around pain. if he does, he will have to keep teleporting back and forth, since the moment he does get close, he will have be attacked. u are legit saying that he wins against someone who is equivalent to killer, kcm, and itachi (as an edo, none the less) cuz he can teleport.

      He would teleport back and since Pain has a 5 second interval,Minato would teleport back again and Rasengan him. That would take 2-3 seconds.

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    • omg dude lol hahahahha ok. lets go at it again. he cant teleport back in those 5 secs, since in this scenario pain just shinra tensei'd all the kunai in range, so there aren't any kunai for minato to teleport to that are close to pain.

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    • Lorenzo.r.2nd wrote: omg dude lol hahahahha ok. lets go at it again. he cant teleport back in those 5 secs, since in this scenario pain just shinra tensei'd all the kunai in range, so there aren't any kunai for minato to teleport to that are close to pain.

      Not all of them would be pushed since Minato has some far away

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    • @Lorenzo

      You still haven't provided a way for these one shotters to hit him. You describe them, but don't state how fast they are. You just auto hit Minato with them, which is disqualification. There is no jutsu that automatically hits someone. And nothing you mentioned thus far is fast enough to hit Minato.

      When was Pein able to Shinra Tensei everything around him at once? What you are saying is impossible since he can only Shinra Tensei in one direction, so you lose the argument. AND if he does what he did to the entire leaf, he won't be able to use Shinra Tensei for a long time just like when he did with Naruto. And that was one Pein with all Nagato's power.

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    • Pein was able to Shinra Tensei in multiple directions against Choza, Choji and the rest of the group that joined Kakashi. Also, when Gamabunta and the other giant toads tried to attack Tendo, he blasted them in multiple directions.

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    • Ninja Of War wrote: Pein was able to Shinra Tensei in multiple directions against Choza, Choji and the rest of the group that joined Kakashi. Also, when Gamabunta and the other giant toads tried to attack Tendo, he blasted them in multiple directions.

      thank u friend (to think that he kept disagreeing with me this whole just cuz he didn't pay enough attention smh...)

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    • @Ninja of War

      Alright. Noted. I retract the statement on him not being able to Shinra in multiple directions.

      @Lorezno

      That's how a debate works. You use actual feats to prove your case. And I didn't disagree cause you said he can Shinra in multiple directions. I disagree cause you can't prove he can hit Minato, which is all I want. In fact I even gave a statement just in case he could Shinra in multiple directions. "They still exist, he can still teleport to them, so what's your point?" Was your point him not being able to teleport close to Pein? Easy, he can place his Flying Raijin Formula on the ground and actual objects. Instead of using his Kunai. All he has to do, is put his hand on something and he can teleport to it.

      The more things Pein has to push, the more Chakra he has to use. The more Chakra he has to use, the longer it takes before he can use it again. The longer it takes for him to use it again, the more time Minato has to hit him.

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    • minato will have to teleport more times than pain has to shinra tensei. think about it- 1 shinra tensei can take care of all things surrounding him, including marked kunai, marked rocks, etc. minato will have to keep teleporting, cuz if he doenst, pain's one shotters will get him. and nagato's chakra is greater than even obito's, who has more chakra than minato. minatil will tire out more than twice as fast as pain will.

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    • @Lorzeno.

      That's possible. But, these are Kage leveled Shinobi. That would take days. All Minato has to do is hit him. If he marks the ground and Pein Shinra's his kunai, he can still teleport to that spot on the ground, move in, hit him, and destroy his body.

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    • if pains uses his summons, he will have up to more than 20 eyes... u know that right? so minato getting him behind aint happening, nor is he gonna mark a place that they wont see. he will have a dead ass rasengan, in between 5 secs or less. can he do that with shinra tenseis, summons, 20+ eyes watching him from all directions, punches that can take his head off (asura path), souls stealing jutsu, chakra absorbing, etc. its legit almost impossible. tbh, I doubt that even him in kcm could do. maybe his kcm+ sm could, but it would still be though. he wouldn't be one shot that way, but he could still be harmed if he doenst take care.

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    • @Lorenzo.

      OOO. You finally made a good point on the summonings having the Rinnegan eyes. You're on your way. Too bad Pein has never summoned all his summonings at once (Unless he attacked an entire village), so he won't be summoning all them at once against one guy. At least, not in the beginning. At most he would summon four, and that is generous. And why does them seeing the mark matter? They don't know Minato nor the Flying Raijin formula. They going to be like "Oh? Look he wrote something on the ground. I'm going to erase it, cause I don't like words!" Lol, come on now. And Pein does have all those powerful Jutsu, sure, but he isn't using all them at once. Minato can dodge each one by itself, no problem. Naruto beat him, Minato can definitely beat him.

      Scenario: Minato and Pein meet, with no knowledge of each other. They only know that the man before them is someone they must kill. Minato is in his Sage Mode (Since in the description he starts with it). Pein pulls him in with the Deva Path. Minato, as he is being pulled, drops a Kunai. He then teleports to that Kunai before reaching Pein's hand. Now Pein has to wait five seconds before using it again, BUT WAIT, Minato, is already there in front of him using his blinding speed. Pein's eyes widen in disbelief as Minato, punches his chest with enough force to destroy the puppet. Minato blitz him.

      If you think otherwise Lorenzo, tell me how Pein counters this or what Pein's first attack would be.

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    • doenst matter how many he summons, but ok. and if they can see the marks all at once, and all of them as well, he cant teleport to anywhere that they wont attack. he will have to stay hidden. this pain is stronger than edo nagato who is about as strong as 3 bijuu. and Naruto didn't beat him. Naruto, ma, pa, three boss summons, and kurama beat him. that team right there>>>>>>>>>>> sm minato. ps, since minato's sm is perfect but weak, it would last less than 10 mins, and he doesn't know the clone thingy, so he has 10 mins to win against in sm. keep that in mind. and like I said, minato has no feats that make him faster than 6 tailed Naruto, so he wont really blitz pain at all. so that whole plan is kinda useless.

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    • @Lorenzo

      Minato's Sage Mode is weak, normally. But in the description he now has mastered Sage Mode, thus it is no longer weak. So he can use it as much as he wants and go into instantly like Hashirama who mastered it.


      Minato does have feats. He was able to toss a Kunai before the Raikage in Lightning Armor was able to punch him, despite Raikage already throwing his punch and was just a mere few inches from hitting his face. Raikage then goes on to say "He dodged my full speed?" FULL SPEED. This makes him faster than the Raikage.

      He was also able to intercept Obito, taking a baby Naruto from him before he can even realize it DESPITE HAVING THE SHARINGAN as he was trying to strike Naruto.

      A, the 4th Raikage,a guy Naruto barely managed to escape even with Kurama's cloak, said Minato was faster than him.

      You best give my dude the respect for being the god of speed. He isn't the Yellow Flash for being slow. Those feats aren't even with Sage Mode or Flying Raijin. He has both equipped. Damn straight he is going to blitz Pain. You are tripping.

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    • and those feats make him faster than 6 tials Naruto why? cuz wall I got from this "minato's hand can let go of a kunai faster than the raikage can run 7 meters at full speed", and then "minato caught a baby from someone's hand while he wasn't look nor caring"... those two don't make him blitz not even Naruto tbh.

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    • @Lorenzo

      A is faster than six tails smart one. Cause Kurama cloak Naruto was barely faster than Raikage, if he even was.

      Kurama Cloak > Six Tails. Raikage => Kurama Cloak. Minato >= Kurama Naruto. Kurama Naruto > Sage Naruto. Sage Naruto > Pein. I don't get what's so hard about that.

      Heck. Naruto base speed was able to hit Pein. Pein slow as heck. You better keep that slug down where he belongs. And Obito was caring. Now you're just acting dumb. He doesn't care about getting Kurama and using Naruto as a hostage? Smh. Illogical. Makes no sense whatsoever. And he was looking, and Minato moved faster than he could react. Get over it. Pein loses for being slow.

      I've given you facts. Even the fact Raikage said he was faster than him. Yet you still argue he is slower than Raikage. At this point it just becomes a fan boy trying to argue cause he wants Pein to win when he can't. Why else would you argue and say Minato is slower than Raikage when Raikage himself said Minato was faster? Talk to me when you aren't making stuff up.

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    • u have given no facts at all hahahaha lol

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    • @Lorenzo

      I presented no facts? :] Thank you for saying that. Now you officially lost the argument by saying that, you either A) Haven't read or watched Naruto before. B) A Troll. C) Just dumb. Either way, here I go to prove what I said was facts thus proving I'm right and that you lied by saying that.

      "Even the fact Raikage said he was faster than him." Chapter 541.

      "He was able to toss a Kunai before the Raikage in Lightning Armor was able to punch him, despite Raikage already throwing his punch and was just a mere few inches from hitting his face." Chapter 542.

      "He was also able to intercept Obito, taking a baby Naruto from him before he can even realize it DESPITE HAVING THE SHARINGAN as he was trying to strike Naruto." Chapter 501.

      I have given no facts? So these never happened then? Wow, would you look at that. Chapters written by Kishimoto himself. But wait, if this all happened, that means they're fact. But if they are fact, and you said I didn't present any fact, that means you lied. If you lied, then that means you lost the debate.

      Good game kid. Talk to me when you read the Manga instead of lying cause you are a fan boy.

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    • oh, so u won the argument cuz u just told me chapters to look at. is that what ur saying? ok I see. so the I went on and told why they were useless as proof, but u didn't care and had ur own bias ideas about it. how about I give u a fact as well? its just as useless as urs, but bear with me- its 9:50 where I live. see? a fact just for u. does it change the fight in any way shape or form? nah, not really. the same goes for ur facts. they just proved to me that minato's fingers can let go of a kunai faster than ay can run at full speed (that's a fact), and that he could grab a baby from obito's arms while coming from his blind side, and not to mention that obito didn't care about the baby at all (also facts). what u gonna say now? that these aint facts? huh "kid"?

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    • @Lorenzo

      HAHAHA making more stuff up huh kid? Your "proof" and everything you said became trash the moment you said those things never happened. You said Raikage never said that and said Minato never did those things. Thus makes what you say bull since you have no credibility (Bet you don't even know what that means, make sure to google it LOL). Why would I believe anything you say when you lied?

      As for what you said. No Minato moved his arm as well, faster than the Raikage could move his. If he just let go, the Kunai would of just fell below him. LOL Don't you know how gravity works? And Minato did not go through Obito's blindside. He came from behind him, moved so fast that he ran right passed him with Naruto in his hands.

      Nice try kid. Go make up more things about Pein, and hype him up somewhere else. I only accept facts.

      P.s. I ain't a kid. I don't lie cause I'm losing an debate. You do though.

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    • Don't let this distract you both from the fact that this is an argument on the internet with people you don't know about characters and abilities that don't exist.

      Point being, enough insults; this isn't something to get riled up about.

      And I'll close the thread should it continue

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    • @Asian, tbh, u might as well. I quit arguing with him. he does the same shit I do, calls me names, then gets offended. idk what his problem. im not gonna argue anymore. everything I say is useless.

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    • Lorenzo.r.2nd wrote: @Asian, tbh, u might as well. I quit arguing with him. he does the same shit I do, calls me names, then gets offended. idk what his problem. im not gonna argue anymore. everything I say is useless.


      You know why it's useless? Because it's not real. You make things up everytime.

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    • lol ok. bye nigga. I quit on u. and its useless cuz ur waaaay too annoying.. and im very annoying myself, so that's something.

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    • @Lorenzo

      I didn't call anyone any names. Unless "Kid" is an offensive term. I call everyone "kid" or "kiddo", if you get offended by that, then you lack the maturity to debate with me.

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    • I don't think u know how to read, since I never said I got offended by that, but sure ok...

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    • "he does the same shit I do, calls me names, then gets offended. idk what his problem." You stated I called you names, but the only thing I called you was a kid. If you think calling you a kid is calling you names, then you got offended.

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    • oooh man lol u also called me stupid, liar, troll.. what else? hmm idk. maybe Ill just for ur next comment to find out.

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    • I never called you those things. I said you lied, but never called you a liar. I said you could be a troll or dumb, but never said you were. What else?

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    • oh so u only just implied such things and said I was acting like such at said moment? interesting. I see the difference.

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    • Never implied. I never implied you were a liar, only said you lied, because you did. A liar is someone who never tells the truth, a lie is just one statement that is false. As for Dumb and Troll, i gave you the choice of, /not being familiar with Naruto/, /lying/, /trolling/, or /dumb/. Whatever you took from that is you deciding what you wanted to be. So if you think I called you dumb or a troll, then that is what you, yourself chose to be called. Not me.

      I have never called you a name once. I may have stated you sounded dumb or like you were in kindergarten, but sounding and being are two different things.

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    • so u just repeated what I said, but instead of u implying such things, I made the choice of being called such things? is that what ur saying?

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