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  • Who is stronger Minato(without Kurama) or One Mangekyo Sharingan Kakashi. What about KCM Minato vs One Mangekyo Sharingan Kakashi? I’m pretty sure Minato without Kurama can beat One Mangekyo Sharingan Kakashi but I was just curious.

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    • Minato would mostly likely win both versions of the fight you described

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    • Minato, both times.

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    • that depends. is this is 4th war kakashi or pts kakashi? but either way, kcm minato wins for sure, but if this is 4th war kakashi against base minato, then he wins.

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    • Even if Kakashi would be able to use Kamui to the same degree the did in the war, what can he actually do against Minato? FTG easily counters Kamui, as seen. He also countered the sharingan with ftg, so Kakashi wouldn't be able to react in time. A rasengan oneshots Kakashi. Kakashi also doesn't have fast enough attacks, even with Kamui. Minato reacted to A at full speed. Kakashi can bring his niken in the fight, but Minato can bring Gamabunta, who would be unecessary because even with his dogs, Kakashi can't win.

      KCM Minato is not even debatable.

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    • kakashi can one shot, and u seem to forget that his reaction time is is just as good. he cut lighting in half at the age of 14. and kakashi is waaaay smarter than 15 y/o obito. they are so different in strength that its sad. if kakashi lands any raiton jutsu, minato is down due to the after effects said element (they became immobilized cuz of the electricity). oh, and kakashi tanked a rasengan before (in the rasenshuriken training, and when madara threw minato's arm at him). if minato uses gama, then gama gets kamuid, and minato loses a lotta chakra, so I doubt that minato would do that. and if u want some scaling to show u why I think kakashi wins agiant base minato:-->> 4th war kakashi= base obito, who is on par with kcm Naruto, who is stronger than ay, who was stronger than base minato years ago, and now got much stronger. simple.

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    • @Lorenzo

      It would be extremely hard for Kakashi to keep up with Minato's natural speed and reflexes, let alone his FTG tactics. Kakashi is fast, but to think that he can actually land his Lightning Cutter on Minato is plain absurd. Not even A could land a hit with his fastest attack. And unlike A, Kakashi won't have the durability to withstand the Rasengan. Kakashi can be smarter than Obito all he wants, he is not thinking his way out of this. And to top it off, he can use Sage Mode, which increases his speed and reaction even further. Kakashi is being hyped here.

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    • If Kakashi had the other eye that Obito had he may have a chance since Obito confronted Minato using his Kamui when he was only 16 years old, however on the other hand Kakashi Kamui is not as powerful, as Minato though he managed to Kamui Minato Rasengan in the 4th war, also Kamui on kakashi point takes alot of chakra so it's really hard to tell but Minato may have the advantage.

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    • @Lorenzo

      I kind of have to agree with @Rachin123 and @Vladosaurus over here. War arc Kakashi in no way one shots. Kakashi himself admitted that he can't overuse sharingan meanwhile we see Obito spamming.. literally spamming Kamui. And not just as an adult but even as a 15 yr old. Kakashi is not in anyway stronger than 15 yr/ old Obito. That I can guarantee you. We have also seen Kakashi be drained of his chakra after using Kamui, even for a little bit. So there is no version of Kakashi SMS that is stronger than MS Obito. Also the whole Raikage better than Minato is definetely not true. Raikage admitted Minato is stronger himself.

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    • lol do u guys really think that 4th war kakashi< 15 y/o obito?? like, for real? cuz if so, then I don't even have the chance to argue. as for speed, minato isn't physically faster than guy. im pretty sure everybody here knows that right? if so, contemplate on that please.

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    • @Lorenzo.r.2nd

      Yea we pretty much all know that 4th war Kakashi is weaker than 15y/o Obito. Cuz Kakashi can't spam Kamui. Obito could spam Kamui even then and still lost.

      I do agree with you that Minato is definetely not physically faster than Guy. I'd even make an argument to say that Night Guy is faster than teleportation speed. But I'm that can also easily be proven wrong.

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    • kay. that just means no matter what I say, yall wont budge, good luck. im still gonna be reading the comments but I wont comment anymore. ive done my share.

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    • @Lorenzo.r.2nd

      Thanks, it also means that all of us here know our facts cuz everyone here knows base Minato can beat One MS Kakashi. Also it is safe to say that despite all of us proving that base minato is better than One MS Kakashi you aren't budging either.

      but thanks for doing your share!!

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    • what facts? I haven't seen any from ur part.

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    • well... idk.... the fact that since Kakashi is not an uchiha even during the war he gets his chakra drained after using kamui like 3 times. Obito at the age of 15 could spam... literally spam Kamui. Also not a fact but a point... everybody here thinks that Minato would win and you alone think Kakashi would win for whatever reason(which I have nothing against even though it may sound like I do). But I think I provided facts

      PS.. i thought you weren't commenting anymore

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    • ohhhhh, I see. u have the fake facts, but not the real ones. so imma go and give u a real fact. obito spamming kamui is purely because of his half hashi-body. so by himself, he is<<< then his hashi dna self. keep that in mind, since kakashi in the 4th war= obito in the 4th (who is much, much stronger than an obito who was just bellow base minato), which makes kakashi by logic stronger than minato. but since u got the rest of the facts, ill just stop here.... oh, and exactly: U THOUGHT.

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    • @Lorenzo

      We know why Obito can spam Kamui. That's why he has the advantage over Kakashi. Kakashi beating Obito was due to being robbed of his best ability (intangibility) thanks to the aid of Guy and Naruto. And even then Kakashi was pushed to his limits. Also, Obito was outclassed by Minato in every way when he first fought him. Obito was not just below him. So no, Kakashi being able to beat a handicapped Obito as an adult doesn't make him logically stronger than Minato.

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    • by ur logic, that makes 6th gate guy weaker than minato as well, since he had no chance of touching obito. not being able to land a hit cuz of intangibility=/= not being able to land a hit cuz of skill. kakashi fought version 2 jinchurki's, whose weakest member was stronger than kcm Naruto (reread the fight if u don't believe me). I really don't see minato wining against a vr2 jinchurki, much less against kcm Naruto.

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    • @Lorenzo

      I wouldn't say 6th gate is weaker than Minato, but is unable to beat Minato because of his prowess. 6th gate has way more destructive capabilities than Minato, but that's about it. Minato is smarter than him and has several tactics to deal with his enemy using the FTG. While 6 gates Guy will have a better chance than Kakashi, he'd ultimately lose. So no this Kakashi doesn't have the skill to beat Minato. And to correct you, Kakashi didn't even really do anything in that fight but cut the chakra arms of the V2 jinchuriki, which he seen coming from a distance anyway. I mean even KCM Naruto and B struggled against the jinchuriki. Clearly Kakashi fighting two V2 jinchuriki would have been pure bs.

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    • not really. I figured u would say that, but guy (kakashi's rival, who is currently loosing in the rock-paper-scissors section) with the 6th gate beat kisame, who beat vr2 killer bee, who is stronger than any other jinchuriki (sides for Naruto), who are all stronger than kcm. kakashi has to be at least, as strong, or stronger than kcm Naruto then. at least. and I don't really doubt it, tbh. I guess people think he is weak cuz hes a glass canon. as well as lack of feats. he is in the tobirama area right now.

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    • @Lorenzo

      We have never seen them duke it out. Guy is just always making up any silly little challenge to beat him. Also, 6 gates beat a 30% clone, not the full-powered one that fought B and your not even thinking about the fact Kisame had hax likes absorbing chakra and that giant water prison technique. Not even Kakashi could do better against Kisame than B. So no Kakashi is not as strong or even stronger KCM Naruto. That is just utter bs.

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    • and? they HAVE duked it out. doenst matter if we saw it or not. and I meant 7th gate by the way (im talking bout the turtle island fight). and? kakashi also has hax. for all we know, if kisame and kakashi fought, kakashi would judt kamui samehada, which makes kisame a bit a of a trash, since his chakra lvl bascially ALL come from his sword. and kakashi escaped water prisons before. something guy could not do until he used the 6th gate. and how is it bs if I just explained to u the reason why?

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    • @Lorenzo

      They have duked it out in the past, but it was never mentioned that they did so as they were older. Kakashi's only hax is Kamui and even then Guy can easily move and close the gap in gates. Not to mention, Guy will be all up on his ass, like Hidan was, not giving him the chance to use Kamui. Also, Kakashi could use Kamui to warp Kisame's sword away. That doesn't change too much, other than the fact that he can't use the giant water prison technique and absorb chakra, but Kisame has tons of overpowered jutsus that Kakashi can't counter. Kisame is also quite fast, as seen in his fight against Guy and B. Kisame also naturally has high amounts of chakra, which is why Kisame picked him to wield him until B. When did Kakashi escape a water prison? Because last time I checked, he needed Naruto and Sasuke's help against Zabuza when he was trapped in one. Also, Guy never needed to go gates to escape a water prison, he used it to quickly defeat him so he can save Lee, Neji and Tenten.

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    • no man. they still do it to this day. they were even competing in how many edos they defeated mid war. and ik that defeats kakashi in about all stats, sides for two: brains and jutsu skill. kakashi can make up for it with both, since he is top tier in both as well. and no, kisame had high-normal chakra lvls. he never had huger ones like ay, and co. and he isn't really fast, but I will say that he has real good reaction time. and actually, kakashi CAN counter ALL of his jutsu, since he can just plain old copy them. and he escaped the water prison in the second fight against zabuza. even neji did so, and he did it against kisame, btw. guy was fighting the real fake kisame, while the team were fighting the fake clone kisames.

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    • That is not the same thing. They have never actually fought each other like they did as kids. Kisame has large reserves of chakra period. Like I said, Kisame is only attracted to those with large chakra reserves. I never said he was comparable to A in that department. And it really doesn't matter. Kakashi's chakra reserves are shit compared to his. Another fact. So how you expect him to counter all of Kisame's techniques by copying them as he doesn't have the chakra to perform his more powerful techniques? Kisame's physical prowess includes: overpowering Guy in strength, going toe to toe in taijutsu against Guy, and perfectly countering all of B's sneak attacks while fighting Sabu.

      Do you mean Kakashi escaped Zabuza's water prison in their first fight? Because even then Kakashi only did so thanks to Naruto and Sasuke's assistance. And even if Kakashi manages to escape it, Kisame has way more techniques to dish out.

      But, anyway we are talking about Minato vs Kakashi. This is getting a bit off topic.

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    • even if he cant copy them, he can still kamui them. or use earth jutsu, which are strong enough to handle a raikiri, who are able to damage bijuu. and when did kisame fight evenly with guy?

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    • @Lorenzo

      Well Kakashi using an earth wall will be impossible as the battlefield will be covered in water.

      Kisame fought evenly with Guy in their first fight, while still fending off Lee, Neji and Tenten.

      At this point it is quite clear that you need to do more research as everything said was corrected by me. You have nothing to offer to this conversation false accusations.

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    • corrected? corrected as in "kisame cant flood a whole battlefield without samehada, which will be kamuied straight up"? or corrected as in "kisame lost to lee in taijutsu, who is shit to guy"?

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    • @Lorenzo

      😂😂😂. Boy what are you calling fake facts. My information was literally specified and proven in the tv show. What you’re saying makes no sense. Even though Obito had zetsu dna it doesn’t change the fact that he could spam Kamui. And FYI this zetsu DNA that you’re berating right now was also attached to Obito when he got stomped on my Minato. Face it Minato>>>>>>>>>>>> One Mangekyo Sharingan Kakashi. Don’t get me wrong I love Kakashi but u can’t say facts are fake when their not. I didn’t even understand wht you were saying it made no sense. Don’t underestimate Minato he is one of the most powerful ninja ever!!! He could stomp Kakashi. And actually thank you for bringing up the whole white zetsu part. Since Obito had white zetsu DNA attached to him. It enhanced his abilities. Something Kakashi did not have. And Minato stomped Obito. So Minato is better than Kakashi. Minato is also better than Raikage. Cuz say what you wanna say. Raikage literally said he didn’t think any shinobi could surpass Minato. Obviously Raikage is not better than Minato then. And Kakashi is definitely not stronger than Raikage. It seems like you don’t like Minato for whatever reason. Also don’t call other people’s actual facts fake when they make sense. You are the only person here for whatever reason thinks Kakashi is stronger than Minato. Which he is not.

      P.S: sorry it took me a while to respond Bro. I was caught up in a lecture I was giving at my University Princeton.

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    • lol do u also call ur students boy? anyways, nothing was proven by u. at all. and I said that to emphasize a point. lol obito wasn't stomped. for one, he almost. just cuz he got one shotted by minato's most powerful jutsu, it doenst make a stomp. Naruto can kill sasuke with only a punch if need be. and since u didn't understand, Ill explain it again. 4th war kakashi= 4th war obito= kcm Naruto. is that simple enough? and 4th war obito is much stronger than kid obito that its not even comparable. and what feats does minato have to even be that much of a stomp? and no lol remember how u said that obito got stomped by minato? well, the same alsmot happened to minato when fighting a much younger and weaker ay. the same ay that is now on kcm naruto's lvl. these are also facts, no matter what u say. and he never said that minato was unsurpassed lol for one, ay himself knew a lotta ninja stronger than minato, who would totally destroy him. what he did say is that minato was the fastest. and not physically faster, since there were a lotta faster ninjas than him out there. he faster than most, but not the fastest. and since all I used in this comment are facts, and urs aren't, I CAN and WILL call u out mah man.

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    • Actually yea I call my students Bro and dude😂😂😂. I like to teach my lectures in a chill manner. And at this point I’m done arguing with you Bro. I don’t have the energy to read your message. Everybody here thinks that Minato stomped Obito. It’s literally you alone. Ur not calling anybody out your circling around in utter nonsense. I mean you are literally going around in circles. It don’t change the fact that I. As well as everybody else here is right about Minato being stronger than Kakashi. It’s absurd to say Kakashi is at Obito’s level and moreover that he’s at KCM Naruto’s level. So just kinda like.. hop off Bro cuz I’m right.

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    • so, u don't wanna read my comment, but still wanna say ur right, even though I gave u an actual reason as to why ur wrong? seems legit.

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    • @Lorenzo

      Just for future reminder, please be more civil when commenting to others. I had to edit your post to be more appropriate. Thank you.

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    • @Lorenzo Ok cool whatever man. I do have a question tho. So you’re telling me that Obito’s MS usability and powers were enhanced due to him having Hashirama cells right?

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    • duh. that was stated in the show (this better not be a set up man).. @rachin. believe me. im trying. I myself had to delete some shit outta comment.

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    • @Lorenzo

      Nah bro u straight I’m not tryna trick you or anything. Hey I have one last favor. If you by any chance remember or what episode they might’ve mentioned this in? I’m just curious. This isn’t a set up or anything. I got bored of that argument anyway.


      Dude???? Do you know which episode?

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    • Rachin123
      Rachin123 removed this reply because:
      No point entertaining stuff like that. I edited the comment to avoid this.
      00:42, January 21, 2018
      This reply has been removed
    • Rachin123
      Rachin123 removed this reply because:
      Sigh...
      00:58, January 21, 2018
      This reply has been removed
    • lol chill nigga. I was watching 12 strong (that movies was good). don't know which ep exactly, but ik the moment it was stated. the sasuke vs danzo fight. its in there. (not the exact quote, btw) "the hashi cells are amping up the time of his izanagi, making it last longer" or something like that is one of them scenes, for example.

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    • Quadraticequation wrote: @Lorenzo Ok cool whatever man. I do have a question tho. So you’re telling me that Obito’s MS usability and powers were enhanced due to him having Hashirama cells right?

      Yea, this is fairly obvious. Obito spams MS powers faster than an EMS user, yet suffers no side-effect. Unlike EMS users, he has hashirama cells. We've seen with Danzo that he could charge Koto far faster than normal (Itachi said it'd take a decade, whereas Danzo could use it maybe once per day).

      So yea, Hashirama's cells vastly enhance Obito's powers.

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    • @killman, don't even try man. its harder than it looks.

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    • @Lorenzo.r.2nd HOW IN THE WORLD DO U THINK KAKASHI WOULD WIN AGAINST MINATO!? Minato practically won a freaking war by himself, Kakashi gets tired after fighting for 10 minutes. First of all, how do u think that 4th war Kakashi=Obito. Not even Naruto could beat obito by himself.

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    • Minato got tired just from fighting obito, so that doenst help ur cause. And he really didnt. He had people on his lvl and above fighting with him (shisui, kakashis dad, the sennin etc). And not even guy could beat obito either. That doenst prove anything, since guy is obviously stronger than minato, but is comparable to kakashi, meaning that kakashi is stronger than him by logic.

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    • When did minato get tired from fighting obito, btw when ur reanimated you are significantly weaker. Kakashi is not as powerful as minato at all, you have no evidence for that accusation. Guy never really fought obito. But guy did crack the ribs of ten tails madara who is a lot stronger than obito. What logic how is kakashi relatable to minato in strength

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    • @StewieGriffin Thank you!!!! That’s what everyone on this forum is saying Minato would win.


      So in case conclusion Minato is stronger than Kakashi. And Obito is stronger that Kakashi

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    • by everybody, u mean u two right? (damn. the number 2 must be really big in ur mind). anyways, minato got tired from fighting obito in their only actual fight. how is that hard to not get? do U have evidence to say that he is stronger? cuz actually, among us three, im the only one giving out facts, battles, scaling, reasons, while u two just say "nope, im right", "everybody here disagrees", "when did that even happen", but it doenst really mean that u are actually winning the discussion u know? well, I guess u DO know, since u two are genius, so ill just wait for now.

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    • @Lorenzo

      You are not giving out facts though. You are giving out lies. Practically everything you said didn't happen or you hyped it up. I, however, have delivered my fair share of facts.

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    • really? like what lies? and don't go and bring opinions, cuz opinions are different from lies. just wanted less food on my plate... oh and, what are the facts that u have shared? cuz don't get me wrong, u and I have different sides in this thread, but im the one telling u guys why I think my guy wins, while u just say no to whatever I say, so until u give out concrete evidence on why u think ur guys wins, im actually the one with advantage here.

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    • @Lorenzo

      The lies I corrected you upon. Did you forget or do you not remember every time I corrected your "fact", you moved on to another lie. There is no food on your plate. You haven't stated any actual facts to support Kakashi's win.

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    • ahh I see, so nothing worth mentioning then. u haven't either though, so im just waiting.

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    • I already mentioned it, and others too. A total of 7 people agree Minato wins. You are the only one voting for Kakashi, and its not enough that you believe, your reasons are illogical.

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    • lol oh man. im starting to think that u don't know how to read. U HAVE GIVEN ME NOTHING TO WORK WITH. at all. all of ur comments are exactly like the one above, but u cant even say why or how minato wins? and u don't seem to say why my comments are illogical either. u just say I lie, then I ask something bout it, but u give me nothing in return. just give cuz a lotta people say yes with no reason (u do know that the majorities in the world are the stupidest part of it right?), doesn't mean that their right.

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    • @Lorenzo

      2 things. Don’t be hostile. I’m pretty irritated also. But I only lost my cool once. And that was after I read your unedited comment about my car accidents.

      2nd. At least my have stated some form of proof against our reasons for Minato being stronger than Kakashi. You haven’t stated any actual facts. And for the record I went back and looked at this post. You’re pretty much the only person who thinks Kakashi can beat Minato.

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    • @Lorenzo

      Yea man I read this post. Ur the only idiot here that thinks Kakashi is stronger than Minato. Face it. Kakashi is a strong jonin. But he’s not a beast like Minato. Minato is literally a god. He took down 1000 shinobi in the blink of an eye. He was so scared that there was a flee on sight order placed on him. Single handedly stopped the nine tails attack. And I also agree that 15 year old Obito is stronger because he had Hashirama cells. Which allow him to spam Kamui. Therefore stronger than Kakashi who had his chakra reserves drained after that. WHERE IS YOUR PROOF. AND GIVE ME ACTUAL PROOF. NOT SOME BS THAT MAKES NO SENSE AND IS UTTER LIES. AND DONT YOU DARE CALL THIS BS AND UTTER LIES BECAUSE IK YOU’RE CAPABLE OF THAT. GIVE ME FACTS FROM THE SHOW. IF YOU HAVE NO PROOF ACCEPT THAT YOU’RE WRONG AND QUIT POSTING

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    • 1. im really not eve irritated anymore. now im just tired. its kinda late. im almost quitting. 2. I HAVE stated facts. I even gave reasons I as too why kakashi can win. wait... oh, yall do know that im not saying that minato cant win right? he CAN win, just not as many times as kakashi. so logically kakashi is the stronger one. and yeah.. ive never said the opposite of that, so ok... anyways. imma start over. minato's speed vs kakashi's speed (minato's best asset being thrown out the window). now, minato's physical speed with shunshin should IS higher than kakashi's, if not for the fact of the first gate, which he can open. and u cant tell me that it doesn't make a difference, cuz it really does. and FTG wont really be a problem, since kakashi has better eye speed/reactions than minato (he could keep up with 7th gate guy, who was faster than a TSB, which is able to blitz kcm Naruto, while minato almost- like, real almost- got hit by ay, who at this point is much slower than his older kage self- and yes, it did happen. got check it out if u want). attack potency- pretty much the same actually. kakashi's raikiri is stronger than a chidori, so it its about the same lvl as a rasengan. and if its not, he has been shown to be able to use more times than minato can use the rasengan, so I think that although kakashi doesn't have any more nor less chakra than minato, I do think that he has better chakra control. oh, and he has much, much more variety and versatility. to the physicals- yeah, kakashi would shit on him if it gets to close quarters, so the only chance minato has is the FTG. and that is if he keeps spamming it. and brains? kakashi and minato are different. minato is a jutsu genius. the guy is the best (orochimaru, tobirama, madara, and co are here) and has some strategy feats. thing is: kakashi has both, but on a bit on a higher lvl. he can use about any jutsu known to the common shinobi, is a better strategist, AND MAYBE has a bigger chakra pool.

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    • @sexyhair

      Hey take it easy bro. I understand your frustration and agree you but don’t go insane man.

      @Lorenzo

      When was it stated that Kakashi has better control on chakra and that his raikiri is more destructive than a Rasengan. My proof. I’ve seen Minato Rasengan blow chunks out of the ground and I haven’t seen Kakashi raikiri do the same man. Everyone who has encountered Minato says that he is unsurpassable. Kakashi states it himself, as well as Jiraiya and Raikage. As for Kakashi Kamui being faster than Minato FTG. That’s just utter BS. Minato killed 1000 shinobi, tamed Kurama and got full access to its powers. I doubt Kakashi could have done that. His sharingan isn’t strong enough to control it. And dude it’s universally known that he has average chakra reserves while Minato has strong.

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    • Quadraticequation wrote: @sexyhair

      Hey take it easy bro. I understand your frustration and agree you but don’t go insane man.

      @Lorenzo

      When was it stated that Kakashi has better control on chakra and that his raikiri is more destructive than a Rasengan. My proof. I’ve seen Minato Rasengan blow chunks out of the ground and I haven’t seen Kakashi raikiri do the same man. Everyone who has encountered Minato says that he is unsurpassable. Kakashi states it himself, as well as Jiraiya and Raikage. As for Kakashi Kamui being faster than Minato FTG. That’s just utter BS. Minato killed 1000 shinobi, tamed Kurama and got full access to its powers. I doubt Kakashi could have done that. His sharingan isn’t strong enough to control it. And dude it’s universally known that he has average chakra reserves while Minato has strong.

      u didn't even read what I wrote... wow.. oh, and just cuz one explodes, it doemst make it stronger (example- a sword cant go through a car, but it can cut a bullet in half, which can go through a car. same thing here- raikiri= sword, rasnegan=bullet). and like I said many, many, many times, they all only said that he was the fastest. nothing more. nothing less. and I never even- forget it. that's why I like talking to rachin. he actually takes time to read my comments.

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    • @Lorenzo

      I did read what you were saying. And like Rachin I said it was utter BS. And wait.... did you just say a sword can cut through a bullet😂😂? Wow... ok no wonder you think Raikiri is stronger than Rasengan.Also as for your facts about Kamui speed go. We have never seen Kakashi outmaneuver Minato. While we have seen Minato outmaneuver a Kamui. And don’t even think about saying that Kakashi Kamui is more versatile and stronger than Obito’s back then. Because we know Obito’s Kamui was enhanced by Hashirama cells.

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    • it can. here. a link. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Hasi-giZck skip to 40 secs and ull see (no wonder u think everything I say is bs. u didn't even know this much).

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    • Um... yea ok idek how to respond to that. Cool man. You proved to me that a bullet can be cut by a sword. According to a tv channel. However, I prefer physics over the history called. The amount of force is directly relevant to the amount of power there is in an object. And we all know. F=ma (force= mass x acceleratation). The acceleration on a bullet is significantly faster than that of the speed of a sword. It’s simple mathematics man.

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    • than what do u want from me? a link to a guy with a sword cutting an immobile bullet? is that it?

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    • ? No I’m just saying that due to mathematics behind life. I find it physically impossible to believe that a sword has more destructive force than a bullet. It’s literally the basics to college physics.


      But that’s not the argument. We’re getting off topic. We’re talking about Minato vs Kakashi. Not bullets vs swords😂😂. Well we rather had conversation until you brought up bullets and swords😂😂😂

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    • Tbh, isn't it obvious that the hard, sharper, thicker metal is more destructive than a small peace of lead fliying real fast?

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    • Side note, Minato's base rasengan is equivalent to Naruto's BB rasengan. So Minato's rasengan should be stronger than a raikiri. Also, the instance of Minato vs 14yr old Obito, Minato had to worry about his child, his wife and the village being attacked by a full-sized Kurama. He's full attention was definitely not on Obito, but Minato still managed to win, that says quite a lot about his strength.

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    • @ Lorenzo

      Did u say kakashi she reflexes are enough to go against 7 gates guy. If u did then I'm sorry but you have a mental problem.

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    • @Lorenzo

      Yea bro. It seems like majority of the ppl here know that Minato is better than Kakashi.

      @Ninja of War

      Also it’s important to mention Minato’s feats against Obito. Considering Obito had Hashirama cells. He had a massive advantage. When you combine Uchiha and Senju powers you get formidable strength. Kakashi was neither an Uchiha nor Senju so it doesn’t make sense to state that he is stronger than Obito when he invaded Konoha.

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    • Lorenzo.r.2nd wrote: Tbh, isn't it obvious that the hard, sharper, thicker metal is more destructive than a small peace of lead fliying real fast?

      Physics standpoint? Force is mass times acceleration. Since the bullet has much, much more acceleration that it imparts on its target, yes it can have more destructive force.

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    • Minato can beat him with both speed and intelligence.I believe that Minato is the fastest person in Naruto.Kakashi is no way faster than him. Minato can also beat him with intelligence since Kakashi took ages to figure who the masked man was (Obito) while Minato took 4 or 5 minutes to figure out who the masked man was (Obito again).Also doesn't Minato have Sage Mode? If he does,that's another way he could win.Also if your going to say Kakashi can win with Kamui,you have some mental problems.Minato can use his speed so Kakashi can miss his Kamui directed at Minato.Kakashi doesn't have Susano'o as well as this is only One Mangekyo Sharingan Kakashi.I believe you need 2 Mangekyo Sharingan to activate Susano'o.If I'm wrong,just correct me.So Minato takes the win here and also @Lorenzo.r.2nd.I don't think you have stated actual,real facts.However I actually have stated facts in this whole paragraph I'm writing.

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    • @AsianReaper

      Thank you!!!! That’s exactly what I’ve been saying it’s simple physics.

      @Naruto10647 My Dude!!!!!! Preach brother!!!! Preach!!!!

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    • well, I try using logics, but yall don't care about that. what u DO care about is my giving a bad example of physics, so I really don't even know why I try anymore. if u think that he wins with no proof whatsoever, than go ahead. I aint stopping u. but I do have to argue with people who say that sakura> than spsm Naruto, so yeah....

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    • We have given proof why Minato wins. You have not. I don't know why you think you have. And I'm quite sure nobody said Sakura could beat SPSM Naruto.

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    • @Lorenzo

      How can you say our proof is bad, when your proof is straight garbage. Like none of it makes sense. Everyone would say that minato would beat kakashi

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    • Here is another piece of proof. Sasuke was going toe-to-tie with Kakashi after fighting Raikage, Mei, Tsuchikage, and Danzo. Then during the 4th shinobi war Raikage admitted that Minato was the toughest opponent he faced. You can deny this all you want. But doesn’t change what happened.

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    • @Quad

      He only went toe to toe with the Raikage, and even then he would've died had Gaara not intervened. Mei almost killed him immediately, as well as Onoki, due to him being already over exhausted. Him defeating Danzo was only due to plot and Obito. As for the 4th Raikage, Minato was much faster due to his quick reflexes and FTG. However, Minato lacks the firepower to actually kill the Fourth Raikage, but could seal him.

      The fact that a weakened Sasuke could easily beat a fully powered Kakashi, only proves that Kakashi can't hope to beat Minato, who could inevitably beat the Raikage.

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    • @Rachin

      Sure yea. But still helps my point that Minato is stronger than Kakashi. Personally I think Minato can defeat Raikage because Raikage admitted it himself. But I don’t want to dwell further into that because this is focused on Minato vs Kakashi.

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    • lol hahaha look. this is my proof. none of it was contradicted by guys, but yall still say its bs. I have been writing paragraphs for days like this one, and u give me one argument saying that u also have proof? lol for one, kakakshi did better against danzo when fighting that danzo himself. danzo was getting killed left and right, while kakashi had the reaction speed of the raikage to actually activate his ms and warp away his arrow. that arrow>>> minato's physical speed, so don't go saying some shit like kakashi's kamui being shit when used on minato. the only tool minato has to fight against kakashi is his FTG, "....anyways. imma start over. minato's speed vs kakashi's speed (minato's best asset being thrown out the window). now, minato's physical speed with shunshin should IS higher than kakashi's, if not for the fact of the first gate, which he can open. and u cant tell me that it doesn't make a difference, cuz it really does. and FTG wont really be a problem, since kakashi has better eye speed/reactions than minato (he could keep up with 7th gate guy, who was faster than a TSB, which is able to blitz kcm Naruto, while minato almost- like, real almost- got hit by ay, who at this point is much slower than his older kage self- and yes, it did happen. got check it out if u want). attack potency- pretty much the same actually. kakashi's raikiri is stronger than a chidori, so it its about the same lvl as a rasengan. and if its not, he has been shown to be able to use more times than minato can use the rasengan, so I think that although kakashi doesn't have any more nor less chakra than minato, I do think that he has better chakra control. oh, and he has much, much more variety and versatility. to the physicals- yeah, kakashi would shit on him if it gets to close quarters, so the only chance minato has is the FTG. and that is if he keeps spamming it. and brains? kakashi and minato are different. minato is a jutsu genius. the guy is the best (orochimaru, tobirama, madara, and co are here) and has some strategy feats. thing is: kakashi has both, but on a bit on a higher lvl. he can use about any jutsu known to the common shinobi, is a better strategist, AND MAYBE has a bigger chakra pool."

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    • @Lorenzo.

      Dude you pretty much just stated what you had said before. Although you already said that... but then not only me, but Rachin, Stewie, Avenger, and a couple other ppl immediately contradicted it. I said it before and I’ll say it again. This is not proof. It’s utter BS. And I read it this time.

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    • yeah, I did. and u didn't really conreadict it. what u did was complain about my gun-to-sword comparison, but u still haven't given me the reasons as to why minato wins, like ive been asking for, for days now. but worry not. I have made the same thread in another wiki to see what happens.

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    • @Lorenzo

      No we have been giving proof. You’ve just been going around in circles. It’s literally utter malarkey. Ok I’m done. Don’t bother responding anymore.

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    • no u haven't. show me ur proof. come and paste, do whatever, but show something. u just agree with what people say, and when I debunk what they just said, yall totally forget about it, and go back to my comments being bs. that whats u do all the time. u think u guys are winning this argument cuz u have more people. but that's it, since u haven't even given me a reason as to why minato wins. the only thing u do say that kakashi doenst win. period.

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    • Sasuke was going toe to toe with Kakashi. After overusing Mangekyo Sharingan. Before that he almost got killed by Raikage when he wasn’t overusing Mangekyo Sharingan. Raikage would later on go to admit that Minato was better than him. That’s point one. Then the fact that Jiraiya, Raikage and Kakashi himself considered Minato unsurpassable. The fact that Minato countered Kamui but we’ve never seen the other way around. The fact that Minato could gain full access the bijuu mode. Which is not as easy as it seems. And Kakashi definitely does not have more chakra reserves that Minato. That’s just BS. I can go on further but I think I prove my point. And I think everyone else here has also proved their point.

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    • so the raikage thing has already been explained to u, but u don't seems to understand. the only thing that of his that was unsurpassable was his speed. that's what each and everyone of those people meant. the thing about him being the strongest kage was also retconned along with hiruzen being the strongest kage. the show has made it VERY clear that hashirama is the strongest kage. and that obito only had his kamui for like a year after he acquired it. as well obito himself not being the best of fighters, nor the best of wits in the show. he mostly followed orders. good orders don't make him strong. that's why he lost minato, a war veteran. and minato didn't gain access to full bijuu in tow ways actually. 1- Naruto was already in control of kurama before he was revived, so he didn't have to do shit, and 2- he didn't even have bijuu mode. he had kyubi chakra mode, which is a bit weaker. so yeah, it was pretty easy for him. and minato has no feats showing good chakra lvls, so until then, he and kakashi are equals

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    • Ok.... literally everything you said in right now is wrong so I’m not even sure how to respond to ur malarkey anymore.........

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    • lol so that's ur final answer? even though its true? can u even prove me wrong? at all?

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    • No not really. It’s not true at all. It’s actually BS. Like everything else you’ve said in this forum. As for Minato being in KCM mode. No it’s Bijuu mode. He’s friend with Kurama and can go into TBM. Hallmark of Bijuu mode. Don’t be trying to take this from Minato. Second. When Minato went into Bijuu mode he shocked Naruto and Kurama. Kurama said he never imagined that Minato would also. Then Naruto said his dad was awesome. And Kurama agreed. Had the Kurama’s been linked which is utter BS then Kurama wouldn’t have been shocked about Minato being in Bijuu mode. Raikage literally said, “I came to believe he was a shinobi no one could surpass”. It so obvious he was talking about skill. You’re just unwilling to change ur mind on that for whatever reason. I think I’ve proved enough. Now ur probably going to come back with more fake stuff and try to dispute whatever I said. Which I will ignore because I and everyone else here know the facts.

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    • really? what is bs? its kcm. not matter how u look at it. he didn't befriend kurama. Naruto did. so Naruto gets bm. minato gets kcm. and yugito could go into her full avatar, and she didn't befriend her bijuu at all. lol both kuramas see what the other sees. and kurama didn't get surprised. at all. only Naruto did. and the raikage meant speed lol how do u not get this? minato was already weaker than a shitton of people, so there was no reason nor point for him to say that. and u haven't proved shit lol just cuz someone made statements in the show about their own opinions, it doenst make it true. people said that sasuke was stronger than orochi when he killed him, but sasuke himself admitted that he was weak as fuck, and that he wouldn't have had a chance otherwise. and u don't know shit lol

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    • @Lorenzo

      😂😂. Yea whatever man. Underrate Minato however much you want. It doesn’t make me wrong.

      Also it’s definitely a bijuu mode. I saw him getting along with his Kurama during the Obito fight. And go back to episode 372-373. He was clearly shocked. You have no proof to go around saying Minato has KCM mode. And don’t say it’s the cape cuz Naruto didn’t have the cape during The Last. And I’m not the only person here who knows Minato is more skilled than Raikage. So quit going in circles and leave this forum already.

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    • Why dont u go read the nine tails chakra mode page then? Cuz i just did. And skilled has nothing do u with it lol that just shows how little u know. Boruto is more skilled than naruto, but naruto is still stronger. Sasjke is more skilled than naruto, but naruto is still stronger.

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    • Minato wins,no way kakashi can pull a win.Minato is better strategist,is a master of ftg and is a seal master.Kamui isn't fast enough to catch minato,one mark on kakashi and it's over.Maybe kakashi can catch minato in a mangekyou sharingan genjutsu,then kakashi can actually damage minato.Minato doesn't know about mangekyou sharingan genjutsu, if he peeked at kakashi then he can get trapped and can't get out without kurama.

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    • Lorenzo.r.2nd wrote: really? what is bs? its kcm. not matter how u look at it. he didn't befriend kurama. Naruto did. so Naruto gets bm. minato gets kcm.

      You can only go Tailed Beast Mode (as in, use Kurama's full body) if you've befriended you Tailed Beast or you've let them take over forcefully. SO no, Minato did not have KCM, he had Bijuu mode

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    • @Lorenzo,

      Please read this.

      Ninja Of War wrote: Side note, Minato's base rasengan is equivalent to Naruto's BB rasengan. So Minato's rasengan should be stronger than a raikiri. Also, the instance of Minato vs 14yr old Obito, Minato had to worry about his child, his wife and the village being attacked by a full-sized Kurama. He's full attention was definitely not on Obito, but Minato still managed to win, that says quite a lot about his strength.

      Minato has TBM, not KCM.

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    • Link title

      Naruto10647 wrote: Minato can beat him with both speed and intelligence.I believe that Minato is the fastest person in Naruto.Kakashi is no way faster than him. Minato can also beat him with intelligence since Kakashi took ages to figure who the masked man was (Obito) while Minato took 4 or 5 minutes to figure out who the masked man was (Obito again).Also doesn't Minato have Sage Mode? If he does,that's another way he could win.Also if your going to say Kakashi can win with Kamui,you have some mental problems.Minato can use his speed so Kakashi can miss his Kamui directed at Minato.Kakashi doesn't have Susano'o as well as this is only One Mangekyo Sharingan Kakashi.I believe you need 2 Mangekyo Sharingan to activate Susano'o.If I'm wrong,just correct me.So Minato takes the win here and also @Lorenzo.r.2nd.I don't think you have stated actual,real facts.However I actually have stated facts in this whole paragraph I'm writing.

      @Lorenzo I have already stated proof,Sage Mode can kill Kakashi.Admit it.

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    • Since everyone here except one person understand facts. I think it’s safe to say that the winner is Minato.

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    • Quadraticequation wrote: Since everyone here except one person understand facts. I think it’s safe to say that the winner is Minato.

      I agree with you.And that one person doesn't know his naruto facts.

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    • Minato gives him a nice bliz, Minato overcame the Sharingan and Obito's ability that he uses the kamui much better than Kakashi

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    • minato didn't befriend his bijuu. Naruto did, so that was more like an after effect or side effect. yugito did the same thing that Naruto did. she took over matatabi and her power, which led to her having all of her abilities (along with going into her avatar bijuu mode), but since kurama is much stronger, harder to beat, and has more power, and Naruto had kcm for like a day, how do u not get that he should have been able to do the same eventually? and ik that sm minato beats war kakashi, but base minato doenst. and Ive given my reasons, but since the Narutoverse info that I myself brought up, quoted, and showed it to u guys is bs and lies and shit, it doenst really matter anymore.

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    • ^Minato seemed friendly enough with Yin Kurama to me. When Naruto and Minato went to attack TTJ Obito, they had similar TBM avatars.

      I hope you read my post on Minato's rasengan as well.

      P.S. Maybe try to explain how you think the battle will go down.

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    • Guys.... this person is still delusional enough to think he’s right 😂😂😂

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    • Naruto10647 wrote: Minato can beat him with both speed and intelligence.I believe that Minato is the fastest person in Naruto.Kakashi is no way faster than him. Minato can also beat him with intelligence since Kakashi took ages to figure who the masked man was (Obito) while Minato took 4 or 5 minutes to figure out who the masked man was (Obito again).Also doesn't Minato have Sage Mode? If he does,that's another way he could win.Also if your going to say Kakashi can win with Kamui,you have some mental problems.Minato can use his speed so Kakashi can miss his Kamui directed at Minato.Kakashi doesn't have Susano'o as well as this is only One Mangekyo Sharingan Kakashi.I believe you need 2 Mangekyo Sharingan to activate Susano'o.If I'm wrong,just correct me.So Minato takes the win here and also @Lorenzo.r.2nd.I don't think you have stated actual,real facts.However I actually have stated facts in this whole paragraph I'm writing.

      I hope you read this @Lorenzo

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    • yeah I did. it said that minato is the fastest person in the show, so u can see how absurd that is. and u cant really prove that minato is faster than kakashi, since he has no physical speed feats. he can only teleport (which was already something barely faster than kcm naruto's speed, and something that madara one shotted even while he had sm). and no lol it didn't take ages for him to find hahaha. for one, the masked man, was only ever even seen by minato and nobody else, so to the rest of the world there was no masked man, and only madara. period. and minato found out by accident lol that doesn't prove bout his smarts. and im talking bout base minato, not sm minato. do u know how to read? I already said that sm minato wins, but base minato doesn't. and just cuz minato has teleportation, he has never, ever shown the ability to actually spam it, so he will eventually have to stop moving. if he does, he dies. and yes, kakashi's kamui is able to get and follow both a truth seeking ball and 7th gate guy (otherwise, he shouldn't be able to explain how the battle was going on to gaara, who was right next to him). and here u have the facts "THAT I HAVE NEVER, EVER STATED BEFORE, BECAUSE OF UNKNOWN REASONS".

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    • @Lorenzo

      Minato's reactions is unsurpassed, even against the Fourth Raikage. He needed the FTG to dodge his fastest punch, but if weren't for his high reaction speed, he wouldn't have accomplished this. He is also naturally fast, which is why his use of the Body Flicker was one of the best. He could reach and save Kakashi from a Iwa jonin just as the latter was about strike Kakashi. He could reach the Nine-Tails in a very short amount time, despite being a considerable distance away from it. And to top it off, he was the first Hokage to arrive on the battlefield, beating Tobirama, another skilled user of the Body Flicker.

      Kakashi has never in fact kept up with 7G Guy. 5 gates and onwards have have shown insane speed, something Kakashi has yet to show he could reach. TSBs are fast, but I wouldn't say that they are too fast Kakashi's Sharingan to see. The only time Kakashi ever Kamui'd a Truth-Seeking Ball is while Madara merged all of them to create a shield around himself. However, that's not impressive considering that it was just sitting there.

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    • I never said that his reaction time was bad. I said that his speed isn't that big of a deal. kakashi was shown to be faster than about 60% of a good potion of the characters in show, but minato gets one statement from tobirama and now he is faster than light (this is what kinda irritates me the most). and the 4th raikage punch, for one wanst full power (he could've gone faster I think. I need to confirm that though), but if there is one thing I know for a fact in that scene is that minato barely escaped, so his reaction is about lower than a weaker 4th raikage (comparing young ay to 4th war ay btw), and as we all know, reaction speed is always higher than movement speed, which is also higher than fighting speed. if u give kakashi the jutsus that we know he has, he should be at least as fast tobirama (which is fast af, and he isn't much slower than minato either, since minato got there 5-10 earlier, in a matter of miles and miles, so their speed is waaay to close to even actually call it out). and the iwa jonin thing- he also used FTG. I saw that scene the other day. kakashi was trying to land a chidori on him, but the guy pulled out his sword 1st, but minato teleported on the last second, then teleported back along with kakashi. and the nine tails thing. not sure if he used actual speed, and if he did, it really wasn't as far away as u think. kurama was about right in the center of the village, and was also really huge, which makes it much less impressive. by kept up I mean as "kakashi was able to fully see and cope with 7th gate guy and super ultra suppressed ttj madara (who is stronger than a perfect juubito, who in a weaker form blitzed both tobirama and hashirama, who are both at least comparable to minato in speed) as well as his tsbs. and idk how fast tsbs are, but are surely faster than sm minato's max physical speed (which should be 5-15 times faster than minato's base speed. it all depends on minato's chakra lvl, which are pretty sketchy, if anything), who madara reacted to, blitzed, and almost yet again, killed with a tsb. and kakashi ALSO kept up with obito and his own, pure ms which was amped by his mokuton (which allowed him to see both 7th gate guy and kcm Naruto, meaning that kakashi should be able to do the same as they fought around as equals). and yeah, he only kamuid the shield tsbs (I was thinking of obito, but seeing as obito has the sam reaction as he does, as well as speed, I don't think it impossible for kakashi to also do).

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    • @Lorenzo

      Yes, Kakashi is faster than 60% of the Naruto cast. I'm not denying he isn't fast, but Minato is faster. I've already stated feats as to why he is faster with just the body flicker and his reactions, now coupled with his FTG, Kakashi is outmatched. Kakashi has the Sharingan, it is no wonder he could see what was going on. Kakashi has the perception to see speed of that caliber, but cannot move that fast himself. Shoot, even Lee without the weights was faster than Kakashi, as Kakashi copied his speed to show Sasuke instead of just having Sasuke copy his own speed. Your TSB calculations are not legit, like at all.

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    • kakashi being slower than lee is kinda more like plot. otherwise, he wouldn't even be able to teach sasukehow said speeds are achieved (since he himself was much faster than sasuke, and better at shraingan usage, he should've also been able to easily copy those speeds), nor would he be able to fight against even base guy, who blitzed gaara's sand, which is fast enugh to handle 1st gate lee to some extent. and I just explained to u how minato's base speed isn't that high (or as high as u think it is), using the good old facts that u like so much, so Idk why ur saying that, but ok. and what do u mean my calcs are incorrect?

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    • @Lorenzo

      Everything is kinda plot.

      Also, Kakashi never copied Lee's speeds. How is that comparable to Minato's speed btw? Minato is proven to be faster than EMS Sasuke, so don't see the point. In your comparison, you said that Kakashi is fast because he can react to TSBs with his sharingan. Yet, for Minato, his reaction speeds don't make him fast. Why do you say so?

      P.S. C commented during the five kage summit that the Raikage's max lighting mode matched Minato's speed (no mention of FTG).

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    • @Lorenzo

      No it's not. Just because Kakashi is a jonin, doesn't mean he automatically faster than a genin. Rank does not make the man all the time. Case in point Gaara who was only a genin was easily chunin at the very least. Sasuke, Neji, and Lee as well.

      Part I has hardly displayed any high speed feats. Kakashi was faster than Sasuke, but he stilled needed to use both arms to face him in close combat. Of course this was without the Sharingan, but this only proves that Sasuke was no slouch. But, the fact remains that he copied Lee's speed to make Sasuke copy. I'm sure Kakashi could maintain the speed for a longer period of time than Sasuke, but that's about it.

      Guy also didn't display any high speed feats at that time either, but since Lee is basically a carbon copy of him, it is safe to say that he is still fast himself. We have never seen Kakashi and Guy fight each other like they did as kids since, but it can be assumed that they were around the same speed in base. I refuse to believe that with speed gained with 5 gates or better, that Kakashi can match it. He couldn't even go pass the 1st gate, but all of sudden he can achieve speeds of 7 gates naturally? I don't know why people believe Kakashi is that fast. If Kakashi was as fast as Guy, Kakashi would have hit the jinchuriki, like Guy did. And that was on 6 gates. People take that one panel of them charging at the jinchuriki way too much.

      What was incorrect was your calcs for how fast TSBs move. 5-15 times faster than SM? Where are you getting your data from?

      @Ninja of War

      Kakashi had to copy Lee's speed and fighting style, as Sasuke was not there himself.

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    • @ninja reaction speed is totally different from ur movement speed. its saying that u can see a baseball coming at the last second, and u can see it very clearly, but ur hands, head, arm- none of those are actually fast enough to follow ur reactions, which is faster than the ball, but the ball is faster than. its pretty much like so (they explain that same thing in the narutoverse actually). @rachin ik but the difference from a genin to a chunin is much smaller than from a chunnin to a jonin (hence why they are waaaay fewer than chunnin). and like I said, again, kakashi inst physically fast enough to keep up, but his reaction time is. totally different (read the above part of my comment). and base guy saved lee from bloodlusted gaara's sand, which is fast enough to catch cm lvl2 kimimamru, whose base form was faster than kurama chakraed Naruto, who is about as fast cm lvl1 sasuke. that's pretty simple logic, imo. meaning that base guy is faster than kimimaru, which by logic would be kakashi's base speed in part 1, and we're talking bout 4th war here. I do really need to describe how much faster he got? and no. kakashi is only, at max, as fast as 1st gate guy (if he uses the 1st gate himself as well). anything other than that, and he will be non moving. but if it weren't for his eyes, which have the reaction speed to cope with those speeds, then he would really have no chance. not even against base sasuke from the 1st shippuden episode (with like, no amps at all). and how I got those speeds from the tsbs? well, the only balls can only receive orders from the users, meaning that they wont do anything above the users power. so if ttj madara casually caught minato's insta teleport right under his nose with no warming, while minato was in sm, and also blocked the 1st sekizo from 8th gate guy, then they should be at least that fast.

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    • @Lorenzo

      First off, you didn't answer my questions. I'm asking why you take Kakashi's reaction speed as normal speed, but say Minato's reaction speed can't be taken for normal speed.

      Secondly, in the instance of Minato vs Ay, Minato reacted to Ay charging at him. He threw his kunai as Ay moved in, teleported to the kunai in mid-air, proceeded to attack Ay from behind, dodged Killer Bee's blindsided-intercept attack, marked Bee's tentacle, while slicing it open and teleported back to a safe area before Ay could even react. That is more than enough to convince you Minato is the fastest shinobi we have seen in Naruto.

      Finally, Kimimaro's v2, is much slower than v1. What's more confusing is your comparison of Guy>--Gaara sand>--v2 kimimaro>--kurama Naruto>--Sasuke. What does that have to do with this thread? And it's incorrect as I pointed out.

      Also, TSB speed =/= TTJ Madara speed. Don't know where you get that from.

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    • @Lorenzo

      It took hell of sand attacks and mis-directions to finally catch Kimimaro. Guy blocking the sand from hitting Lee is impressive, but I wouldn't say that he's faster than Kimimaro. Surely in gates, yes, but in base, he's about as fast. Kakashi too.

      Kakashi does not have the reaction speed of 7 gates and it's ridiculous to say so. He seen everything with his Sharingan and since Guy was in mid-air and Madara was just standing there, it is not surprising that Kakashi could use Kamui and warp away part of the Truth-Seeking Ball shield protecting Madara.

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    • @ninja i didn't even see that question, but had u read my comment with more attention, u would've noticed that I never said that. any and all living things (known to man) have reaction speed> movement speed. and it doenst matter. he has good reaction time, but he only escaped cuz of two things in that battle: FTG, and killer bee was the second one to attack (had bee attacked first, minato wouldn't have had enough time to even see ay coming, like he had when ay attacked 1st... this isn't a fact btw. its a standpoint from someone who kinda knows tactics to some extent). and do I really need to tell u that teleportation=/= physical speed? no matter how fast his teleports are, his body's speed will never, ever change, no matter what. if he cant teleport anymore, for one, the battle will already be won on kakashi's side. and my comparison was as simple as I could do it. base guy was faster than gaara's sand, which was faster than a "powered" up kimimaru (wont use more terms anymore, cuz I don't want confusuion) who is able to blitz clones over clones of a kurama powered Naruto, whose speed is comparable to cm lvl 1 sasuke who should be by logic, shit slow compared to kakashi, who is as fast as base guy- the point is, kakashi is much faster than u think. period. that's just it. @rachin ik what u mean, but gaara's sand was fast enough to defend gaara from kimmi's attacks, which are both faster than lee and kurama chakra Naruto. that's pretty damn fast, especially considering that guy is able to totally blitzs that sand at full power while not even trying, in base, which is by logic kinda comparable to kakashi's speed (we already went over this, so lets not try to bring it up anymore)... kakashi likely couldn't react to an attack from 7th gate guy, but he has proven that he can see it. minato is not nearly as fast as him, so im trying to say that kakashi will, by no means, be blitzed (he can be surprised, but that's a whole other thing)... going back to tsb- they were fast enough to protect madara from 8th gate guy, so they are by logic fast enough to attack at that speed as well. kakashi can clearly follow 7th gate guy's movements (the "limit" to kakashi's vision is bijuu mode Naruto. he couldn't even follow what happened anymore after he went bijuu mode, but could follow 7th gate vs the jinchurki, and vs ttj madara). meaning that if he can see those tsbs, they would have to be slower than bijuu Naruto, so they aren super ultra fast, but are much faster than minato by all means, and kakashi can follow them, so he wont have speed problems with minato. its pretty confusing, cuz of how it is and cuz I can never actually type down my exact thoughts, but im trying, so bear with me.

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    • @Lorenzo

      Dude idek why ur still fighting this. U keep saying the same BS. Then we all prove to u how Minato is stronger.

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    • u still haven't proven shit though. IM the one that has to keep repeating shit. do u even know how minato could even win?

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    • Minato went up against Obito who had the better mangekyo sharingan.....and we all know howw that ended.

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    • Lorenzo, stop. This is your proof. Kakashi cannot defeat Itachi, Itachi is feared by everyone just about. Obito is certain Itachi will or would have caused major issues. The 4th is too fast, knows sealing jutsu, has sage jutsu, and so forth. His feats of speed are documented. In the war he had his comrades throw those kunai at an army, he ported to all of them and won. Additionally there was a standing rule to not engage him at all. No one ever mentioned in this show was said to have garnered respect like that except Itachi maybe. If kakashi got marked its over and the 4th would figure a way out. 4th beats itachi barely, itachi beats kakashi and obito. 4th does this without kekkei genkai. He's better. Plus kakakashi can't beat Pain.

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    • Minato can mark Kakashi and that will be the end of it.Itachi can beat Kakashi but cant beat Minato. There is your answer.Minato defeats Kakashi.

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    • @Lorenzo

      Lorenzo.r.2nd wrote:

      ...I know for a fact in that scene is that minato barely escaped, so his reaction is about lower than a weaker 4th raikage (comparing young ay to 4th war ay btw), and as we all know, reaction speed is always higher than movement speed, which is also higher than fighting speed.

      He didn't barely escape lol.I showed earlier that Minato reacted twice to Ay's attack, while Ay couldn't do anything. How is Minato's reaction speed suddenly weaker than Ay's lol? I repeat, Minato reacted twice, first throwing the kunai, second using FTG to teleport to the kunai in mid-air, and then using the said kunai to attack Ay from behind. Add to that dodging Bee's attack and simultaneously marking Bee's tentacle. That is pure speed, after Minato used FTG he used his speed to do all of that and Ay couldn't even react. Minato's reaction speed, normal speed and fighting speed are much higher than Ay's, I don't see otherwise.

      Lorenzo.r.2nd wrote:

      ...by kept up I mean as "kakashi was able to fully see and cope with 7th gate guy and super ultra suppressed ttj madara (who is stronger than a perfect juubito, who in a weaker form blitzed both tobirama and hashirama, who are both at least comparable to minato in speed) as well as his tsbs. and idk how fast tsbs are, but are surely faster than sm minato's max physical speed.

      That is you saying Kakashi's reaction speed is equal to his movement/fighting speed. Also, that statement is wrong in your comparison btw. So, if you say this for Kakashi, but disregard it for Minato, your argument falls flat.

      Also, TTJ Madara is faster than TSB. While TSB are faster than Kamui, which Minato is also faster than. Like the Body flicker technique and lighting armor, characters use these jutsus to enhance their speed in some way. Any jutsu is a tool for a shinobi, as black zetsu said. Yes, it might not be their 'natural' speed, but if it enhances their speed in combat, then it makes them fast and that's all that matters.

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    • oh man, I just noticed that im discussing with people who think that minato beats itachi lol (I saw this thread that said that he also beat kurama, so why am I even surprised).

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    • @Lorenzo

      Please reply to my points. I'm trying to understand where you're coming from.

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    • @ninja, thanks, but good will it make. don't take personally, but its like im hitler to the rest, and ur just some guy who is only half jew. see what I mean? imma do it this one last time mah man... no. ay's hit was so close that it almost hit his nose. he even had that "close call" face when it happened. and of course ay's reaction time is better than minato's. to give u an example, ay's base speed is fast enough to get gaara off guard (he saw the likes of lee before, so that's surprising right?) but then something else happens- he almost blitzs obito in the same fight, who at this point>> minato as well as his younger self (by logic). then he can power up and go even faster. see the difference. and minato only reacted once, and he almost got hit that one time. if u tell me how to post pic, I will give the colored manga chapter, if necessary. and ay's speed is comparable to 6th gate, who is comparable to kcm Naruto. do u actually think that minato faster than kcm Naruto and 6th gate guy?.... no, just his eyes can see what would happen, but he wouldn't eve be able to react at all (much less move). to give u an example of 7th gate guys speed, obito couldn't dodge him- he could kamui himself over and over, even though kcm Naruto was fighting him evenly much earlier.... how can u say that kamui cant catch minato? minato almost got kamuid before by a noob ass obito. he kamui might've been stronger than kakashi's. but by no means was it more than skillful than kakashi's right now. kakash's ms can react to sasuke's susanoo arrows who not even danzo with shisui's ms could dodge. and minato uses shunshin to make himself fast (and he should be about shisui's tier in that matter, so, close to itachi in speed, whose ms was fast enough to fight kcm Naruto and vsr2 killer bee) so he will need to use his chakra the whole time during the battle to actually survive, which wont work out for him, cuz if his lack of chakra lvl feats. how do u think the battle will even turn out? minato's gonna do what? FTG the whole time? he will run out of chakra if he does so. fight close quarters? he will lose. bad. jutsu his way through? his rasengan (normal) isn't much stronger than naruto's, so unless he keeps using odama rasengan's (which will waster his chakra even more), he cant actually hit his jutsu.

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    • ^I'm kinda lost with your latest post. I asked you to reply to my posts, because I can't seem to follow your examples and comparisons.

      Like you saying, "Ay's base speed is fast enough to get Gaara off his guard", what does this have to do with anything? I don't get it. And then saying, "Ay almost blitz's Obito in the same fight which is faster than Minato". What? None of that is true.

      Minato's base rasengan is the BB rasengan. So stop saying otherwise.

      Please @Lorenzo, just reply to each of my points in my previous post. I think then I'll be able to understand you better. Not trying to be rude, but your points just don't make sense to me.

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    • this is why I didn't want to respond. ive been doing and going over this for like a week now. instead, why do u think minato wins?

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    • At this point I think you guys just need to agree to disagree. @Ninja While I agree that @Lorenzo’s arguments do not provide solid evidence for his opinion, it probably will not change no matter anyone says, and that is ok. It’s a discussion thread, Everyone doesn’t have to be right.

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    • @Lorenzo

      I'm trying to accommodate you. Trying to engage you in a simple discussion for the points listed in a previous post. I can understand that you are a bit tired of this, but I really want to get to the bottom of your logic and reasoning. As of now it seems that the instances of Ay vs Minato and Obito vs Minato happened quite differently in your opinion.

      This is quite interesting, as you seem to take away from both of those instances that Minato's reaction speed is lower than his opponent. Despite the fact that it isn't. So specifically what part of those instances makes you think that?

      Minato is clearly super fast, his style of combat revolves around speed. So, for any opponent, the hardest thing to do is land a hit on Minato. Moreover, Minato won't allow his opponent to weave signs in combat. This means blitzing is much more realistic for Minato.

      For a fight against Kakashi, Minato will be well clued up on Kakashi's abilities. Kakashi won't have time to weave signs, so he'll be limited to only a few jutsu. Raikiri needs a straight-line attack, and though it is fast, Minato can dodge it. FTG is instantaneous, coupled with Minato's reaction speed and Minato is not gonna be hit.

      Same for Kamui, Minato can use FTG to escape it. He did before and Kamui is not instantaneous. Minato's rasengan > Kakashi's Raikiri. Minato has larger reserves of chakra than Kakashi. Kakashi's best bet is to use Ay's strategy and try and determine where Minato would pop up and try and attack there, but easier said than done.

      Don't see Minato losing this fight.

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    • But that's the problem. "Don't see minatos losing" is not the same as "kakashi would lose" nor "minato wins for sure". How would minato win or blitz a guy who has reaction time better than his, more experience, and just as smart?

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    • Lorenzo.r.2nd wrote: But that's the problem. "Don't see minatos losing" is not the same as "kakashi would lose" nor "minato wins for sure". How would minato win or blitz a guy who has reaction time better than his, more experience, and just as smart?

      Did you read what he said? He asked what exactly makes you believe he has a better reaction time? Like, what feats does he have that puts his reaction higher?

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    • That's the problem with you Lorenzo. Kakashi does have good reaction times but he can't even keep up with Minato with speed.What makes you think Kakashi is smarter than Minato? Minato figured who the masked man was within minutes while Kakashi took ages. Minato has sage Mode meaning Natural Energy is in his body. Minato can escape Kamui using FTG. As this is One Mangekyo Sharingan Kakashi,he doesn't have Susano'o,this is quite a mismatch if you ask me. Also Minato singled-handily handled Kurama and I doubt Kakashi can stop it.I am trying to get to the bottom of this but I just don't think you have evidence to support your facts.What makes you think One Mangekyo Sharingan Kakashi can beat Minato?

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    • Naruto10647 wrote: That's the problem with you Lorenzo. Kakashi does have good reaction times but he can't even keep up with Minato with speed.What makes you think Kakashi is smarter than Minato? Minato figured who the masked man was within minutes while Kakashi took ages. Minato has sage Mode meaning Natural Energy is in his body. Minato can escape Kamui using FTG. As this is One Mangekyo Sharingan Kakashi,he doesn't have Susano'o,this is quite a mismatch if you ask me. Also Minato singled-handily handled Kurama and I doubt Kakashi can stop it.I am trying to get to the bottom of this but I just don't think you have evidence to support your facts.What makes you think One Mangekyo Sharingan Kakashi can beat Minato?

      Don't worry dude. I quit on u the moment u said that minato beat kurama. @asian yeah. Ik how to read. I'm just tired of answering the same questions and talking bout the same shit over and over. And he has better reaction time cuz he reacted to characters faster (or as fast. I don't really know for sure) who were blitzing kcm Naruto, who is proven to be faster than ay, who is much faster than his younger self, who like I said before, almost blitz-killed minato (i legit just searched the image and it shows ay almost hitting his face, and minato's scared-ass face. Heck, minato legit tried to kill ay with a kunai. That just shows how little attack power he has)

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    • Lorenzo.r.2nd wrote: Don't worry dude. I quit on u the moment u said that minato beat kurama.

      But...he did. He was teleporting Kurama around like nobody's business, teleporting his Bijudama around like it was no issue. In the end, he used Reaper Deaths Seal because Kurama was too important to lose. But he had the capability to seal him whole, so if the whole "balance of power" was no issue he could just seal Kurama into any child or injured person.

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    • But he didn't defeat kurama,so it doesn't matter what we think couldve happened. We can't prove it, so it's useless in this discussion.

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    • @Lorenzo

      But, he did defeat Kurama. Kurama was sealed within someone. He's not free to do as he pleases.

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    • @Lorenzo I quit on you.Go watch the whole Naruto anime again,I quit on you the moment you said,Minato didnt beat Kurama I am laughing my ass off. Plus Minato wasnt scared one minute when Ay was punching him. All he had to do is throw a marked kunai to the branch and teleport there and he did that. Go learn your Naruto facts.

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    • Lorenzo.r.2nd wrote: But he didn't defeat kurama,so it doesn't matter what we think couldve happened. We can't prove it, so it's useless in this discussion.

      ... what does sealing him in someone consist of then? Did Itachi not defeat orochimaru by sealing him? Did Sasuke not defeat Orochimaru by sealing him? Did naruto and sasuke not defeat Kaguya by sealing her?

      He only needed Kushina to bind Kurama, so that he could split Kurama and so still make use of him. If the intent was to simply defeat Kurama (which would've been dumb), he could've sealed Kurama in anyone.

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    • @Lorenzo

      Lorenzo.r.2nd wrote:

      How would minato win or blitz a guy who has reaction time better than his, more experience, and just as smart?

      I explained to you my points on why Minato would win. Still don't think you have shown Kakashi having a better reaction time than Minato.

      Lorenzo.r.2nd wrote:

      And he has better reaction time cuz he reacted to characters faster (or as fast. I don't really know for sure) who were blitzing kcm Naruto, who is proven to be faster than ay, who is much faster than his younger self, who like I said before, almost blitz-killed minato (i legit just searched the image and it shows ay almost hitting his face, and minato's scared-ass face. Heck, minato legit tried to kill ay with a kunai. That just shows how little attack power he has)

      Again, quite lost in your comparison and examples. You also seem to be confusing reaction speed with movement/fighting speed, as 'emboldened' above. I see a particular narrative you've crafted from the instances of Ay vs Minato and Obito vs Minato, that simply isn't true. You also continue to use things like, "blitz-killed Minato", "Minato's scared-ass face", to describe things that never happened.

      I've asked you a few times to point out where in those instances these things were, but no response was given. You obviously can have your own opinion on who would win and such, but it sounds like you have decided that Kakashi would win without even thinking about it. And certain instances have been suddenly re-imagined to downplay Minato.

      In any case, I got no beef with you and this 'discussion' has been both enlightening and fun, for me at least.

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    • It's seems like I'm the only one doing research here. I went looked up the chapter to see how the minato vs ay fight went just to be sure. And surely, THAT IS WHAT HAPPENED. If u don't believe me, go on Google and look up minato vs ay (or raikage. Either one) manga. Oh, and them Naga scene is different from the anime, so why don't u keep quiet for awhile @naruto10647, until uve actually read the manga huh? That also apply to the rest of u btw. I have the whole official coloring in my computer. I don't need the anime to see what is true or not. I use the manga for these things since it is the most canon source.

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    • Lorenzo.r.2nd wrote: almost blitz-killed minato (i legit just searched the image and it shows ay almost hitting his face, and minato's scared-ass face. Heck, minato legit tried to kill ay with a kunai. That just shows how little attack power he has)

      Never came close, Minato lets people get as close as possible to him in order to make them believe they've won, then blindsides them. Tobirama uses the same strategy, as Madara noted. In fact, Minato seriously almost got the Ay there, since Bee had to protect him.

      Minato having his eyes wide doesn't mean he's scared. Kakashi and Obito's eyes widened just before they fought, and I don't think either were scared.

      Whoa, Minato tried to hit him with a kunai and that shows lack of firepower? He literally sliced a Tailed Beast Tail off with that kunai. Besides, Minato already has showcased firepower before, so idk what you're arguing.

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    • @Lorenzo So sealing doesn’t count as defeating? So you meant that Naruto and Sasuke didn’t defeat Kaguya,Itachi didn’t defeat Orochimaru? In fact,you here have the wrong point. Sealing is like defeating someone.Tell me Totsuka Blade can seal anyone for eternity. Are you saying that someone could escape Totsuka Blade here also? Plus you don’t know your Naruto facts. Keep quiet,you uneducated Naruto watcher.

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    • Asian, dude, I have the manga panel on me right here. Tell me how to post it and I will. And do I really need to address the fact that minato almost getting ay, as u said, was just minato trying to kill him with a kunai? A fucking kunai. U really think that a kunai is stronger than a chidori, who did nothing to ay?? And cutting an octopus tail is now a high lvl feat why?... What durability feats does his tail have, to make minato cutting it so op a feat? And what firepower? A big ball rasengan? Believe or not, kakashi has a water jutsu feat that has higher destruction than that rasengan that hit obito. Also have the panel btw. Just tell me how....

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    • Ok dude... imma end this. U obviously have ur Naruto facts wrong if u thought Minato was scared of Ay. Minato clearly had the upper hand. And how many times do I have to tell you. Ay said he came to realize the Minato was a shinobi who couldn’t be defeated. That’s what he said. And Minato’s Rasengan tanks all of Kakashi’s sttacks. And regarding ur whole TSB theory. It’s just some bull. But assuming I were to go with that theory. Kakashi kamuied a huge ball and Madara was using as defense. But Minato intercepted 6 moving TSB which would’ve killed Guy had they touched him.

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    • @Lorenzo You literally rely on the manga panel and yet you have your Naruto facts wrong smh. Also Minato’s Kunai was to teleport which would escape the grasps of ay’s hands/punches. Plus Minato never had a scared ass shit face. Having your eyes widen doesn’t mean that you have a scared ass shit face.And tell me Kakashi doesn’t even have a water style jutsu feat that tanks Minatos Rasengan.Plus He has flying thunder god and nowhere near Kakashi would dodge that. Minato also invented the Rasengan. Kakashi would never dodge Flying Thunder God.These are all FACTS

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    • There is no way that kakashi with one MS can beat Minato. Minato is super fast and he has his mark on Kakashi, knowing that a flying raijin mark never disappears,while Kakashi has the MS but he can use it for a very short time,then he gets dizzy. So it's a losing battle for Kakashi.

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    • Lorenzo,maybe you will learn from my proof here.

      SPEED :

      Minato is way faster than Kakashi.He can counter every speed of Kakashi by just his speed.

      POWER :

      Clash of Lightning Blade and Rasengan. At the last minute,he would use Flying Raijin and Rasengan Kakashi.Another can way that he can Rasengan Kakashi is by Sage Mode. He could do the same thing when Naruto defeated the Third Raikage.

      ENDURANCE :

      Minato fought Nine Tails all by himself (with a little help from Kushina). He led Konoha to victory in Kanabi Bridge.Kakashi has low stamina and he had his chakra drained after 3 Kamui.

      TACTICS :

      Kakashi is very smart when it comes to analysis but same thing goes for Minato.Minato was able to counter Obito’s Kamui just after one exchange.

      Minato is the clear winner!!! (I hope Lorenzo has enough Naruto logic to understand this)

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    • I don't really care for this debate. But I saw someone said Mianto's base speed isn't as fast as base speed Gai. Uhhhh. A was stated to be the fastest before Naruto got control over Kurama. Minato was faster than A. Flying Raijin was not a speed technique, it was a teleportation. Minato was faster than A, he could throw a Kunai passed him while in Lightning Armor before a point blank punch connected. Base speed Gai would not have been able to move anywhere close to that speed. Other than that, I agree. Kakashi with Mangekyo can't keep up with Minato. I mean. Even Kishimoto thinks Kakashi is extremely slower than Minato. Minato is literally the fastest Shinobi in base form. Even with special abilities, he is still faster than 99% of Shinobi with enhancements while in his base form. Flying Raijin just made him instant.

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