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  • "Kiri then caught the Three-Tails again, this time sealing it in a young Yagura Karatachi."

    "Following Madara's death, Obito took on Madara's identity, and at some point took control of the Fourth Mizukage with genjutsu."

    "The Academy's graduation methods were discontinued after Zabuza Momochi, not yet a student himself, killed an entire year's graduating class."

    Yagura was maybe like 16 when he was controlled. Obito and Zabuza are the same age. Zabuza was like 9 when he did that. How did Obito control Yagura when he wasn't even supposed to be Tobi at that time?

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    • "Contrary to the age that was given in a databook, his actual age may differ as in accordance to his academy graduation age and by statements given in the story, it had been 10 years prior to his introduction when students massacre had taken place by his hand, yet to have been a ninja himself. This in fact would render him a teen when he first appeared."

      How about reading all relevant statements?

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    • Zabuza told Naruto that he was around his age when he did that. He doesn't know his age and could think of Naruto being younger than 12. Zabuza being 16 at that time and saying to Naruto who looked barely 12 at that time that he was around his age makes no sense. In the time of the 3rd War, Kids began to graduate and became active Ninja's earlier than in Naruto's time. Zabuza, who graduated with 9 and was known for killing a graduation class when he wasn't even a student could've thought that Naruto was REALLY more around his age, 12-->9, than thinking he was 16.

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    • Normally, statements like Zabuza's are the author's way of conveying just how brutal/strong/whatever the character is. "Zabuza thinking that Naruto was younger" would add another layer on top of the statement for no reason, since the reader would never come to the conclusion that Zabuza thinks Naruto to be younger without any further information than that.

      So yeah, it's simply a contradiction, there are many of those in Naruto.

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    • I see, alright.

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    • well, it does make sense as well, when placing this with other subjects. the minato team was around 13/14 y/o when the rin capture happened, and yagura was likely a child at said time. if 3 tails was to captured around 3 years later (more or less. correct me if im wrong), then obito's attack on kinoha happened at this time as well, even though the obito who took control of yagura was older, and yagura was prolly not even mizukage yet, which makes it illogical for obito to take control of him at the time. kisame around his 30's in shippuden, while kakashi was in his mid 20s, and so was obito. if u take away a decade, then obito would barely be fifteen, even though he was 16 when he attacked konoha. this would make yagura less than 13 y/o, which would be illogical for his age, since he supposedly died much later on, as an adult (according to himself)... yeah, this shit makes no sense...

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    • Kyubi's attack on Konoha happened one year after Obito's death.

      We simply don't know exactly when Obito took control of Yagura.

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    • one year is also illogical, since obito would be too young, as well as yagura. and THAT is why I LOVE exact shit.

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    • What does Yagura have to do with Kyubi's attack on Konoha? o.ô

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    • Obito&Kakashi are 31 in Shippuden. Yagura was around their age, or older. I doubt that Yagura became Kage with 13 as well.

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    • Lorenzo.r.2nd wrote: one year is also illogical, since obito would be too young, as well as yagura. and THAT is why I LOVE exact shit.

      Kishimoto chose convenient and symbolic situations over super-accurate timings. It's not always super important (the Hidden Mist is pretty much a footnote in the Manga anyways).

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    • Grossuji wrote: Yagura was around their age, or older.

      Source?

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    • Seelentau wrote:

      Grossuji wrote: Yagura was around their age, or older.

      Source?

      Based on that Zabuza graduated the academy at Age 9 when he wasn't even a student yet and when Yagura was Kage. And again, of course, you said it may be wrong due to it being supposedly 10 years prior to the series, however, why should Zabuza graduate at such a "late" age?

      I just thing that Kishi putting Zabuza as the same age as Obito&Kakashi in the Databook and saying that he graduated the academy at age 9, 10 years before the series started makes no sense.

      The thing that speaks against the theory as well is when Obito's past after being almost completely crushed was later revealed and when it was sealed "inside a young Yagura" after that, even though Yagura was supposed to be the Kage when Zabuza was a young kid.

      I wish Kishi corrects these things with a new Databook, but it'll never happen.

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    • Grossuji wrote: I wish Kishi corrects these things with a new Databook, but it'll never happen.

      It would require a bunch of retcons, and inevitably cause more confusion than it's worth. Especially since Databooks are known to contain mistakes.

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    • There's no plothole, where has it been explicitly stated that Zabuza graduated during Yagura's reign?

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    • Thekillman wrote:

      Grossuji wrote: I wish Kishi corrects these things with a new Databook, but it'll never happen.

      It would require a bunch of retcons, and inevitably cause more confusion than it's worth. Especially since Databooks are known to contain mistakes.

      I guess.

      Elveonora wrote: There's no plothole, where has it been explicitly stated that Zabuza graduated during Yagura's reign?

      Read the things I quoted. If the Bloody Mist Test disbanded during the 3rd Mizukage's reign and, then they couldn't have been brought back by Yagura, means that it's been disbanded during Yagura's reign.

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    • Grossuji wrote:

      Seelentau wrote:

      Grossuji wrote: Yagura was around their age, or older.

      Source?

      Based on that Zabuza graduated the academy at Age 9 when he wasn't even a student yet and when Yagura was Kage. And again, of course, you said it may be wrong due to it being supposedly 10 years prior to the series, however, why should Zabuza graduate at such a "late" age?

      He graduated when he wasn't even a student? How's that supposed to work? And who said that Yagura was Mizukage at that time?

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    • Seelentau wrote:

      Grossuji wrote:

      Seelentau wrote:

      Grossuji wrote: Yagura was around their age, or older.

      Source?

      Based on that Zabuza graduated the academy at Age 9 when he wasn't even a student yet and when Yagura was Kage. And again, of course, you said it may be wrong due to it being supposedly 10 years prior to the series, however, why should Zabuza graduate at such a "late" age?

      He graduated when he wasn't even a student? How's that supposed to work? And who said that Yagura was Mizukage at that time?

      Zabuza's academy graduation age is 9. It was said that a young boy who wasn't even a student yet, killed everyone in the test.

      "Following Madara's death, Obito took on Madara's identity, and at some point took control of the Fourth Mizukage with genjutsu. "The Fourth Mizukage's reign was a time of darkness for Kiri, with corruption plaguing those in charge and the pursuit of power becoming paramount for many. Defection became widespread amongst Kiri's ranks, with several members of the Seven Ninja Swordsmen of the Mist and even the Six-Tails' jinchūriki, Utakata, abandoning the village. The Academy's graduation methods were discontinued after Zabuza Momochi, not yet a student himself, killed an entire year's graduating class, but by then the Bloody Mist had already tainted the Fourth's reputation."

      This just sounds very clear that Zabuza was a young kid at that time. Zabuza being 16 and not even a student wouldn't just make sense. On top of that if Yagura wouldn't be older than him. A 9 year old Kage? Yagura already said that the was a adult, however we don't know when he died. Yagura having a bad reputation would make him then useless for Tobi. People wouldn't follow his commands anymore. What speaks against that Yagura stopped being a Kage after being useless for Tobi, until Tobi came for the Sanbi, since the Bijus had to be captured&extracted in order?

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    • ...so? We've already known for a long time that the manga statement (10 years ago) and Zabuza's age don't match, I quoted it in my first reply. I don't really know what exactly you want tbh^^

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    • That's why I said that it was a plothole..

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    • Then I don't get the purpose of this thread. Did you just want to state what was already known or what?^^

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    • Again, I wanted to ask how Obito controlled Yagura when Zabuza was 9 and just graduated from the academy during Yagura's reign when Zabuza and Obito are supposed to be the same age.

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    • Again: We don't know when Obito's control began. As for the rest, again, the information (10 years vs Zabuza's age) contradicts another, as you already know.

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    • zetsu suit obito was a thing when he was 14 or so. the konoha attack happened when he was 16 or so. the uchiha massacre happened 8 or so years later. we have approximate guesses

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    • But that's not true.

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    • Lorenzo.r.2nd wrote: zetsu suit obito was a thing when he was 14 or so. the konoha attack happened when he was 16 or so. the uchiha massacre happened 8 or so years later. we have approximate guesses

      Itachi was 5 when the 14 years old Obito attacked Konoha, then he was 13 at the massacre and Obito 22.

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    • Sigh, let's just say Zabuza graduated during 3rd Mizukage's reign. The Bloody Mist was already a thing even before Obito's control.

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    • It's known that he graduated during Yagura's reign, otherwise Yagura couldn't have brought the test back, when it was disbanded because of Zabuza who was the last one who did the test unofficially.

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    • then that would make yagura almost 40, and yet, he looks like 10... :{

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    • We still don't know Yagura's age or how old he was when he became Jinchuriki or Mizukage or his age at death.

      There's no further information that could help us out here, otherwise it would be included in my timeline.

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    • Lorenzo.r.2nd wrote: then that would make yagura almost 40, and yet, he looks like 10... :{

      Small boi.

      But yea, there won't come a conclusion out of this. Maybe they'll talk about it later in Boruto. Naruto should tell Kagura how Yagura actually was.That guy has still a bad reputation.

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    • .... dude, Naruto barely knew bee. he isn't gonna be able to say shit bout yagura to him, since Naruto was never paying attention to anything he saud, anyways.

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    • The creators don't care, if it's for the plot.

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    • Grossuji wrote: The creators don't care, if it's for the plot.

      They do care. But a story like this is a lot of information to juggle around, and mistakes can easily happen. And there's no point in Jump financing a small army of fact checkers just so a couple of thousand fans can pore over every detail and find it consistent, when the other millions probably will never notice.

      Some of the most notorious factcheckers (most recent famous ones probably being JK rowling or George RR Martin) still have mistakes, and Martin actually has a small fan army that checks for consistency prior to release. Any big universe will inevitably have mistakes.

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    • And then there's One Piece, where the author constantly takes days off to do research...

      If Kishimoto cared enough, he would've taken the time to prepare and create a set timeline of events even before he began writing the manga. But he didn't and that's just one of the many reasons he's a bad mangaka and Naruto is a bad manga.

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    • Seelentau wrote: And then there's One Piece, where the author constantly takes days off to do research...

      If Kishimoto cared enough, he would've taken the time to prepare and create a set timeline of events even before he began writing the manga. But he didn't and that's just one of the many reasons he's a bad mangaka and Naruto is a bad manga.

      Then every manga except for likes of One Piece and Hunterxhunter is bad?

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    • actually, hunter x hunter is just plain short. its different from a 700+ chapter manga, so there isn't nearly as much info to care about in hunter x hunter.

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    • 0-TentouAlucard-0 wrote:

      Seelentau wrote: And then there's One Piece, where the author constantly takes days off to do research...

      If Kishimoto cared enough, he would've taken the time to prepare and create a set timeline of events even before he began writing the manga. But he didn't and that's just one of the many reasons he's a bad mangaka and Naruto is a bad manga.

      Then every manga except for likes of One Piece and Hunterxhunter is bad?

      No, every manga except for One Piece is bad. :D No but almost all long-running manga have a buttload of flaws, except for One Piece.

      Hunter x Hunter is even worse than Naruto, the mangaka should quit his job if he's too sick to actually work as a mangaka.

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    • Seelentau wrote:

      And then there's One Piece, where the author constantly takes days off to do research...

      Doesn't mean that every author should or wants to do that.

      Seelentau wrote: If Kishimoto cared enough, he would've taken the time to prepare and create a set timeline of events even before he began writing the manga.

      Except he never set out to make a hit manga, it pretty much just happened to him. For every successful series there are dozens of pilots in the trash, and those that succeed tend to be those that adapt on the fly.

      Planning guarantees nothing for success.

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    • Togashi isn't going hiatus just because he is sick.He does this for improving the story.Because the story is more important than the world building.

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    • A FANDOM user
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