FANDOM


  • I mean, I get that he was the Kage that caused the Bloody Mist period, but wasn't that actually Obito/Madara dojutsu-ing the fuck outta Yagura?

    Everytime they say "I have the murderous blood of that monster Yagura" I keep thinking "uuuurgh it wasn't hiiim!" Thing that pisses me off is that u might tell me, "but they didn't know about the Madara part" but Mei Terumi LITERALLY brought it up during the Kage summit: "we think Akatsuki was controlling him". You're telling me they didn^t go public with this shit?

    I just get the feeling that the stakes have never been lower. We, the audience KNOW that Yagura didn't have anything to do with that whole Bloody Mist thing. So Kagura's hesitations and mumblings just come off as, like, paranoia rather than hereditary bloodlust.

    Also, when did Yagura ever get around to fuckin' someone?! Didn't he die when he was, like a kid? I thought he died young, hell, Naruto thought he was a child!

    For that matter, when did Kisame?! I thought he was this heartless bastard who didn't really care for anyone (dude was veeeery prone to killing his teammates, y'know) and ur telling me he fell in love once?! And suppose this was rape (likelier if we're talking about Kisame) then how is Shizuma a Hoshikage?! He'd be a bastard, nah?

    And am I the only one who tought it weird that Same Hada was in that chest? You're telling me that Shizuma has a yummier chakra than Hachibi's? How strong IS Shizuma?!

    I- I... I can't. I just can't. Anybody else agreeing here? Or am I just bad-mouthing it and being heretic?

      Loading editor
    • Manga never said he was the one who made Kirigakure into the Bloody Mist. Or more accurately, they never said when it started precisely. We know only it ended with him. Bloody Mist was already a thing before Yagura became a jinchuriki (Kiri-nin called it Bloody Mist when Rin was made Isobu's jinchuriki), and since jinchuriki were traditionally made out of young children, he was probably a child, way before becoming a Kage. We don't know the extent of Obito's manipulation, neither in duration, nor in manner in which he was manipulated. For all we know, he just exacerbated what Yagura was already, and steered him to certain practices. No, he's not a kid, he mentions he is an adult when Naruto meets him, so he was already of legal age when he died. There is no mention of Shizuma being Kisame's child, they're just from the same clan. B probably returned Samehada at some point, and since relatives have similar chakra, Kisame being able to use it means Shizuma's chakra must be of similar quality or quantity. All your issues with this plot are due to wrong assumptions that can be cleared by reading relevant articles.

        Loading editor
    • 1. No, Kiri was already known as the Bloody Mist before Obito became Tobi and mind controlled Yagura. We do not know the duration of Yagura's reign though. Chapter 605 reveals this.

      2. It could simply be confidential information that was privy only to the higher ups of Kiri similar to info about Naruto being a jinchuriki in Konoha. After all, this is some serious stuff that could implicate the village's structure and could cause some trouble if the common villagers knew their leader was being manipulated.

      3. Yagura says in chapter 572 that he is an adult, simply just a very young looking adult that is. Boruto also thought Shizuma was a lot older than he looked.

      4. Ever hear of this thing called a clan or a family? Just bc they have the same last name doesn't mean they're father and son. That's like saying Asuma is Konohamaru's father just bc they're both from the Sarutobi clan.

      5. Not really, Samehada is a sword that belongs to the Hidden Mist village so B must've returned it to them. I'm pretty sure Shizuma got that sword since he's from the same clan as Kisame, just because the studio probably felt like making that connection.

      I think you're probably just thinking too much about this, or perhaps not enough.

        Loading editor
    • Kamona wrote: 2. It could simply be confidential information that was privy only to the higher ups of Kiri similar to info about Naruto being a jinchuriki in Konoha. After all, this is some serious stuff that could implicate the village's structure and could cause some trouble if the common villagers knew their leader was being manipulated.

      I think it's more that they have no definitive proof. Similar to the Masked Man in konoha: most people correctly figured out that someone was behind the attack and that it was an uchiha, but there was no proof to show this was true. Hence, the higher-ups couldn't really do anything about it.

      Kamona wrote: 3. Yagura says in chapter 572 that he is an adult, simply just a very young looking adult that is. Boruto also thought Shizuma was a lot older than he looked.

      Yup. I've seen 16-year-olds who looked 20+ and 20+-year olds who looked 16. Of course that meeting was also intended as a joke (Naruto feels pity for Yagura not knowing the sensation of a kiss, yet clearly Yagura was the more experienced there).

      David Kibasennin wrote: For that matter, when did Kisame?! I thought he was this heartless bastard who didn't really care for anyone (dude was veeeery prone to killing his teammates, y'know) and ur telling me he fell in love once?!

      Aside from the rather unfortunate "he doesn't necessarily need love for procreation", you're assuming that they were always this way to everyone.

        Loading editor
    • I actually slightly agree with this. When Naruto met Yagura, he seemed like an actually alright guy, and definitely not a merciless serial killer.He was even goofy when Naruto pitied for dying "young" and not kissing a girl in his life. So Kagura being "cursed" by Yagura's blood and not being able to control his killing instinct doesn't really make sense for me. As far i can identify, Yagura was probably your usual Kage when he was Mizukage, even if the blood mist village was at it's most savage stages or not. It was war time, so he had no choice regardless.

        Loading editor
    • Vladosaurus wrote: I actually slightly agree with this. When Naruto met Yagura, he seemed like an actually alright guy, and definitely not a merciless serial killer.

      Yea but.. Kagura was also an alright guy and not a merciless serial killer.. until he draws blood. I guess it's similar to Juugo, where he goes crazy in combat, but is completely fine outside?

        Loading editor
    • Perhaps, perhaps not. When Yagura was preparing to fight Obito, he seemed to be calm and calculated, not an all out crazy bloodlusted freak. On the other hand, when Kagura was preparing to fight Boruto, he was already freaking out. Maybe Yagura became also disturbed when started to fight for real, but for some reason i find this to be a stretch. Maybe it's just the ideea that he is Yagura's grandson, who people considered to be merciless and bloodlusted, that makes Kagura believe in his subconscious that he is the same way, and need to act the same way, hence why he loses it when he draws his sword. He just knows the stories about his grandfather's dark days, and fears the same will happen to him, and deliberately gives in to his "killer" instinct that is more or less made out of fear about Yagura's past.

        Loading editor
    • about the shizuma thing, my bad, i looked up at the shizuma page on wikia, somebody must've changed the relationship status to Kisame (father) or something.

      But about the rest, point still stands! We weren't introduced to Yagura as a bad dude, he seems kinda chill. And anime tells us that Yagura is the one who enforced the Blood Mist trope. My point is, the storyline is just hard to take seriously.

        Loading editor
    • David Kibasennin wrote: about the shizuma thing, my bad, i looked up at the shizuma page on wikia, somebody must've changed the relationship status to Kisame (father) or something.

      But about the rest, point still stands! We weren't introduced to Yagura as a bad dude, he seems kinda chill. And anime tells us that Yagura is the one who enforced the Blood Mist trope. My point is, the storyline is just hard to take seriously.

      Shizuma's article and infobox have never listed Kisame as his father, you can check every revision of both. Kisame was only ever mentioned as a fellow clansman. If you've read that somewhere, it wasn't on this wiki. Nothing the anime has said or expanded upon the Bloody Mist contradicts what the manga has established. Chill and bloodthirsty are not mutually exclusive traits. Your grievances with this arc are hard to take seriously.

        Loading editor
    • They're not mutually exclusive traits but that's what the series tells us. If Kagura was a bloodthirsty dude and Yagura was a bloodthirsty dude and that was it, i'd be cool. But here they tell us Kagura is a bloodthirsty dude BECAUSE Yagura was a bloodthirsty dude. Which, from what we've seen and heard, he wasn't, he comes off as a totally chill guy with Naruto, plus his entire design doesn't scream bloodthirsty killer. You might tell me "well Vegeta, Freeza & Buu in DBZ are short as fuck and don't look threatening either, but they're the main villain of THEIR saga". Point is though, we specifically have Madara/Obito, a villain who is there and who has manipulated/dojutsu'd Yagura into being a total mass murderer. So how can I take Kagura's entire "I have an inner darkness within me like my grandfather, that cruel monster" when we're told that his pappy wasn't in full control of his actions most of the time?

      Also traced back my steps from the Shizuma thing -_-' turns out i got that from the wrong title on the youtube vid clip... i am disappoint.

      At some point, Mifune fell prey to Kotoamatsukami and says Danzo should lead the alliance, a decision believed by everyone else in the room to be bullshit. What if Boruto met Mifune's grandson, whose entire conflict is "the same 'bad-political-choices' blood runs through my veins...! I have the same chances of making bullshit decisions...!" How believable would that be?

        Loading editor
    • See Vladosaurus' second post about Yagura and Kagura's personalities on how this might be all due to Kagura's preconceived notions of how he was told Yagura was. We've seen very little of Yagura to say he wasn't bloodthirsty, which has already been pointed out. One occasion of him being pleasant, after he was dead, is not representative of a lifetime being pleasant. Again, we don't have the specifics of Obito manipulating Yagura, such as how long it lasted, when it began, what exactly he manipulated Yagura to do. Was he already manipulated when he became Mizukage? Was he manipulated after becoming Mizukage? Were there policy changes? Remember that Blood Mist was already a thing before Yagura. About other people knowing he was manipulated, like Kamona mentioned, this is high echelon hush-hush type of information. Your Mifune comparison falls flat and is just plain wrong. The only one who questioned the decision was the Raikage, who was very emotional from the beginning. No other Kage questioned it until Ao revealed Danzo had manipulated Mifune, at which point it's Danzo they criticise, not Mifune. The biggest flaw in that argument is that Mifune says it himself he would have picked Danzo of his own free will anyway.

        Loading editor
    • >Yagura part Fair enough on the Kagura pre-conceived notion. For the "we don't know enough info" part, that goes the other way too. The little we've seen of Yagura shows us he's not bloodthirsty, and as little as that may be, we know that at some point this non-bloodthirsty child-looking dude is controlled by an evil mastermind. Assuming that every bad deed that he did, he did under manipulation isn't a stretch, it's a logical assumption. A stretch would be assuming (based not on first-hand impressions of the character, but on information provided by characters who weren't even there) that despite first-impressions leading us to believe that Yagura isn't an evil dude and despite knowing Obito was controlling him to the point of being considered like the 'real Mizukage' by a member of the 7 Ninja Swordsmen, Yagura was evil, bloodthirsty, and Obito was only there for a short term.

      >Mifune example The fact that no other Kage questioned it doesn't mean that no other Kage agreed with it. When Danzo was announced as leader, everybody went "wuuuuut?!" Was Danzo the only choice? Yeah. But Danzo was a cold-blooded extremist borderline evil dude. The man doesn't inspire loyalty, hell, his very Jonin disobey his orders behind his back. Choosing that man, chief of a hated league of assassins that started shit-ton of manipulations and power grabs, to lead an alliance between shinobi who already hate each other in the first place is bullshit and they all thought it, but the points Mifune made were good too, as such nobody contraddicted him, except for the Raikage. Though the details of the example kinda fuck it up, the concept is still very much valid. Say Danzo Kotoamatsukami-ed Mifune into choosing Madara (god forbid). What if Boruto met Mifune's grandson, whose entire conflict is "the same 'bad-political-choices' blood runs through my veins...! I have the same chances of making bullshit decisions...!" How believable would that be? It wouldn't be. Because as far as we know, Mifune wouldn't be responsible for his actions as he would be manipulated by Danzo. Same here. Through the little we know, the logical jump would be to assume that this apparently kind-hearted dude, who we KNOW is controlled by Obito at some point, was probably not responsible for his actions. But no, instead of assuming the studio fucked up (cuz it's neeeeeeever done THAT before!) let's instead assume that a retcon is imminent.

        Loading editor
    • David Kibasennin wrote: Fair enough on the Kagura pre-conceived notion.

      For the "we don't know enough info" part, that goes the other way too. The little we've seen of Yagura shows us he's not bloodthirsty, and as little as that may be, we know that at some point this non-bloodthirsty child-looking dude is controlled by an evil mastermind. Assuming that every bad deed that he did, he did under manipulation isn't a stretch, it's a logical assumption.

      Considering that he was raised in the Blood Mist and is known to be a shonobi, we know that he succeeded in killing his fellow classmates. So he definitely isn't THAT nice a guy. Besides, we saw how various Edo Tensei mellowed out after their death, having lost any reason to be who they were. Edo Yagura isn't much of a representation of living Yagura.

      Besides, like i said, Kagura is a perfectly nice guy until he holds a sword. I don't see why Yagura can't be a perfectly nice guy until he holds a sword.

      And lastly, we don't yet know the choice the Anime is about to make, whether it's really in his blood or just in his mind. It seems to me that the whole blood thing is just a metaphor, about the choices of the past influencing the current generation.

        Loading editor
    • If it WERE a metaphor, I'd love that, actually. But 2 years of watching Dragon Ball Super have sadly taught me that the studio behind it doesn't really care for metaphors, only for what makes money; every time I saw a potential one coming in, no it was another trope everybody expected, why because kid's are apparently "simple minded and don't get the deep stuff". And the way this is starting out, it looks like the Studio Gibli might be on the track do something similar, aka quickly looking up who was a Blood Mist Mizukage? Guy with weird eyes & Yagura? Let's get Yagura he's got a fan-base! Yeah, he must've been a total villain to have been the Mizukage of the Bloody Mist (doesn't read the Obito footnote)...

        Loading editor
    • Considering all the logic blunders you've made in this thread so far, I'd say you're the one not reading things through and proper. I see it's useless trying to convince you otherwise so I won't bother with it anymore.

        Loading editor
    • A FANDOM user
        Loading editor
Give Kudos to this message
You've given this message Kudos!
See who gave Kudos to this message