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  • When Naruto and Sasuke went to one of Orochimaru's hideouts in the Gaiden manga, (I might be paraphrasing here) Naruto was right there when Orochimaru said that he made Shin.Why didn't Naruto do anything because isn't Orochimaru continuing with his illegal experiments?

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    • No such statement has said cloning is illegal.

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    • Sarutobii2 wrote: No such statement has said cloning is illegal.

      But Orochimaru did not get a permit from the Hokage or any other Kage to perform that act.

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    • And why should be get a permittion? I mean, there's a lot of guys in Naruto series who developed their own powerful techniques, and no reason to believe they asked the authorities about the permittion to do so. For example, I severely doubt that Tobirama asked Fire Daymio for the permittion to create Edo Tensei, and it needs living sacrifices as you remember. However, Oro's cloning was seemingly neither forceful (for Shin himself) nor somehow immoral.

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    • Orochimaru mentioned that it was Shin's sharingan arm that he transplanted to Danzo. That means he conducted the Shin experiment before the Fourth War in which, if you remember correctly, he was pardoned for his crimes. That's why Naruto didn't arrest him.

      And yeah, as Sarutobii2 said, cloning doesn't seem to be illegal as long as there's no human sacrifice involved. Orochimaru would then go on to create Log and Mitsuki even though under Yamato's surveillance.

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    • Wasn't Shin Orochimaru's former experiment that escaped?

      I highly doubt Orochimaru would clone Shin after the 4th war arc, also Shin has shown some knowledge about the Akatsuki, the Uchihas and Itachi.

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    • Kirameku wrote: Wasn't Shin Orochimaru's former experiment that escaped?

      I highly doubt Orochimaru would clone Shin after the 4th war arc, also Shin has shown some knowledge about the Akatsuki, the Uchihas and Itachi.

      Indeed, it was made before the 4th Great Ninja War.. Otherwise he wouldn't be able to have obtained information about Itachi Uchiha and the Akatsuki in general, although Shin was obviously not well informed, because he stated that Sasuke Uchiha killed Itachi Uchiha and therefor is a disgrace to the Uchiha name.

      But like everyone knows Itachi's plan was to let himself get killed by Sasuke from the begin. When Itachi and Sasuke faced eachother in battle Itachi was still more powerfull then Sasuke was (Not stating Itachi was stronger than Sasuke is now).

      Also Yamato has been watching Orochimaru and he couldn't have created Shin, because obviously Yamato would've informed Naruto about it and Naruto probably wouldn't have allowed Orochimaru to continue his experiment.

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    • IXaith wrote: Also Yamato has been watching Orochimaru and he couldn't have created Shin, because obviously Yamato would've informed Naruto about it and Naruto probably wouldn't have allowed Orochimaru to continue his experiment.

      Well, I'm not sure about this part, since Oro's already managed to create Mitsuki and Log during this period of time, and it doesn't seem like Yamato reported it to Naruto or that the latter somehow interfered in it.

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    • Ravenlot 27 wrote: Well, I'm not sure about this part, since Oro's already managed to create Mitsuki and Log during this period of time, and it doesn't seem like Yamato reported it to Naruto or that the latter somehow interfered in it.

      True, didn't think about that. But I guess he created Mitsuki and Log because he wanted his own "kids"? Correct me if I'm wrong, but there's never been a reason stated why he created them.

      And Shin is something else, he literally tried to copy the (Mangekyo) Sharingan, which would make Yamato think he's stil obsessed with obtaining the Sharingan, don't you think.

      He always wanted to take over first Itachi's and then Sasuke's body, so him "creating" a Sharingan should make Yamato get suspicious of his actions.

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    • IXaith wrote: True, didn't think about that. But I guess he created Mitsuki and Log because he wanted his own "kids"? Correct me if I'm wrong, but there's never been a reason stated why he created them.

      Yes. It's hidden quite well behind his weird wind/windmill analogy, but basically Orochimaru felt that the world should be in motion for things to matter, and that he himself had to be the wind that did that. Sasuke showed him that even with the convictions that they shared, he took a different way. Whereas Kabuto tried to copy him, Sasuke went his own way. This opened Orochimaru's eyes to his legacy, and that his wish for eternal life may directly contradict his wish for eternal motion. Basically, he became afraid that he was missing something, which is why he aided Sasuke unconditionally and then created children to take up his work and interpret it in their own way. Which is why Mitsuki had to chose his own third option.

      It's a lot more obvious if you read Orochimaru's statements about "the wind that turns the windmill" back to back, when he says it to Hiruzen (i think) and when he says it to Tsunade/Taka.

      IXaith wrote: And Shin is something else, he literally tried to copy the (Mangekyo) Sharingan, which would make Yamato think he's stil obsessed with obtaining the Sharingan, don't you think.

      He always wanted to take over first Itachi's and then Sasuke's body, so him "creating" a Sharingan should make Yamato get suspicious of his actions.

      Orochimaru's intentions were to lay bare the workings of Ninjutsu, which apparently set him on the path to the Rinnegan. his research clearly was intended to recreate such power, but failed because he thought he lacked a sufficiently strong eye. Hence he wanted Itachi's eyes and later, as the sole Uchiha, Sasuke's.

      However, Shin was experimented upon willingly, and as far as i'm aware, there's absolutely no law forbidding such experiments. Besides, it's not clear when Shin broke out, it's possible this happened before orochimaru's pardon.

      Anyway, it's clear Orochimaru is allowed to experiment. And as long as his subjects give consent, i don't see why it should be forbidden.

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    • Besides, I wonder why the reseach of Shin and cloning has never been revealed up to the current era. I mean, it had so much potential, and while it's kinda obvious that Oro eventually used this research to create Mitsuki, I cannot comprehend why Oro completely abandoned it in the past. Foe example, Shin's body would be a perfect vessel for him, since it accepts any foreign genetic material, which would've allowed Oro to integrate any KKG or other genetic ability into himself with ease. This particularly includes the Sharingan Oro was seeking for so long, and this pursue of an Uchiha vessel (Itachi/ Sasuke) seems so pointless when you realise that Shin's body (or one of his clones' body) would've given Oro a chance to wield the Sharingan almost as masterfully as any other Uchiha, since Shin himself demonstrated quite advanced skills in its use that can rival the true Uchiha.

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    • Ravenlot 27 wrote: Besides, I wonder why the reseach of Shin and cloning has never been revealed up to the current era.

      Presumably it wasn't quite there yet. After all, it seems that Orochimaru was intent on unlocking a power beyond either clan's, yet Shin clearly showed that such power could not be awakened that way. Which is why he wanted Itachi, because he had such powerful eyes. It seems that Orochimaru thought that he would need a live uchiha and not just some intermediary.

      It also seems that while Shin would make a good vessel, initially he wanted to use Kimimaro but that fell through, and Sasuke was next but it took too long. Once he was ready for Sasuke, Sasuke killed him. In short, there was no real opportunity where he could've use Shin. While he may have been able to use a Shin in stead of an unnamed shinobi, it seems that Orochimaru was unwilling to risk a precious body.

      Furthermore, it's not clear what the timeline of Shin is, it's possible that the cloning came only after he was revived.

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    • Thekillman wrote: Furthermore, it's not clear what the timeline of Shin is, it's possible that the cloning came only after he was revived.

      Not really, we have a clear evidence that Shin's cloning was happening quite a while before this, since Oro stated that he transplanted Shin's arm to Danzo along with the Sharingans and Hashi's cells within it, meaning it transpired during the times when Oro was still a Konoha shinobi.

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    • Ravenlot 27 wrote: Not really, we have a clear evidence that Shin's cloning was happening quite a while before this, since Oro stated that he transplanted Shin's arm to Danzo along with the Sharingans and Hashi's cells within it, meaning it transpired during the times when Oro was still a Konoha shinobi.

      There is no reference to when the cloning started. We know that arm contains Sharingan and Hashi cells, so cloning wasn't the only experiment on Shin. It's entirely possible that the cloning only happened after Orochimaru's rebirth. Or it could've happened after Orochimaru captured Sasuke, as Orochimaru was hellbent on making Sasuke his vessel and so would not have taken a shin.

      Either case would explain in a very reasonable way why he didn't take a Shin.

      EDIT: the clones don't look very old, around 12-15 to me, so that would put their birth around the 4th war, give or take a few years. They don't seem to have been aged artificially, as no mention of that is made. So they also would not have been available as vessels around Sasuke's candidacy, and it seems orochimaru was not yet done with his experiments on adult Shin (as evidenced by kabuto's advanced cocktail of powers and the fact that Orochimaru obviously would've wanted such for himself). So, he wouldn't have taken Adult Shin and wouldn't have been able to take baby shin clones as a vessel.

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    • But why didn't Naruto think "Oh no, Orochimaru is getting back to his old tricks, I should do something about that".?

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    • Kgsanime wrote: But why didn't Naruto think "Oh no, Orochimaru is getting back to his old tricks, I should do something about that".?

      He wasn't getting back to his old tricks. He even calls it an old experiment. It's likely that this whole cloning happened before his pardon, and so is covered in it. Orochimaru did nothing wrong. Also, Shin consented to his experiments, so there's nothing wrong with that either.

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    • It's as Orochimaru said in Sasuke Shinden - the leading powers let people like Orochimaru free because they are mavericks and the only ones able to deal with unorthodox problems should any arise in the future. Therefore, I don't think they'll mind him bending some of the established rules, but people like Naruto will never allow for him to cross the line in any way.

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    • Mr. Grave wrote: Therefore, I don't think they'll mind him bending some of the established rules, but people like Naruto will never allow for him to cross the line in any way.

      If he cloned Shin before his pardon (and the age of the Seems to confirm that), then he didn't break any rules, assuming there's a rule against cloning.

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    • while the leaf is constantly watching Orochimaru, he is still none the less the leader of his own hidden village. and still conquered an entire nation. so presumably if they just causually tried to arrest him,they would most likely be dealing with an international incident. on top of that cloning isn't stated to be illegal and as long as no one is getting murdered, why would they care if he was cloning or doing such experiements. not to mention such experiments could have vast potential in the medical industry. just imagine if the cloning processes is so advanced they can clone individual body parts or organs. people who need a transplant could potentially get a brand new organ or body part.

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    • i was under the assumption the adult Shin was a regular human that was a follower of Oro and that Oro only cloned him, not that he was artificially made.

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    • RexGodwin wrote: i was under the assumption the adult Shin was a regular human that was a follower of Oro and that Oro only cloned him, not that he was artificially made.

      Yea Shin is a normal human (as far as that applies), and got experimented on heavily. He was then cloned. So the other shin are artificial humans.

      Mitsuki seems to be a product of the Shin experimentation.

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