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  • This was something that I was thinking about a while back, there’s probably some info here that is wrong, but this is my interpretation of events based on what I’ve found from the Wiki.

    So in order to perform the Reanimation Jutsu, two key things are required: A significant amount of DNA of the user who is to be reanimated and a human sacrifice who is to act as a host which gives the reanimated person a body to use. The human sacrifice is technically alive whilst the jutsu is in action, but effectively dies when the jutsu is released. Fair enough.

    So, if the human sacrifices are forced to give up themselves to host a dead person, it makes sense that the sacrifices get sealed away (for most types of seals) if the dead person is sealed too, and when the Reanimation Jutsu is released, the soul of the dead person returns to the Pure Land, the reanimated body falls apart and the human sacrifice (now dead) gets left behind in the seal unless they get unsealed.

    So now comes my question, which I understand may seem like a no brainer to some people but I still think its worth raising.

    Madara gets reanimated, so some random person gets sacrificed to host him, alright. But then Madara returns from the dead completely using Outer Path – Samsara of Heavenly Life, so now he’s no longer a reanimation. But then what happens to the poor person inside Madara when he’s fully revived?

    When I’ve been thinking about the sacrifice, a couple of questions come to mind:

    - If the human sacrifice is technically still alive so long as the Reanimation Jutsu is intact, at what point do we consider him to be dead? When Madara’s revived? When Black Zetsu stabs Madara in the back (does this mean that the sacrifice gets stabbed too, or when Madara gets sliced in half by Sasuke whilst as the Ten Tail jinchuriki, or when he gets completely messed up by Guy using Night Guy?) ? When Kaguya is revived? Or when Madara dies for the final time as a result of forcefully ‘retiring’ from all ten-tails related business (ie Kaguya getting sealed again and spitting Madara out)

    - What even happens to the sacrifice when Madara is revived? Does it even continue living inside of Madara as Kurama lives inside of Naruto? Or does his body somehow disintegrate when Madara is revived? Assuming that the human sacrifice is still inside of Madara’s body when Madara dies in human form, surely that means that poor sacrifice is gonna die and be trapped in Madara’s body forever?!

    Although, if the sacrifice remains alive throughout the whole ordeal, until Madara’s final death then jeez. In the space of time between him being kidnapped/subdued by Kabuto to his death as Madara, his life sure has changed a whole load. Not only did they become one of the most gifted shinobi in history, the strongest member of the Uchiha Clan in their lifetime (despite not being an Uchiha to begin with), a child prodigy, a user of Sharingan, Mangekyo Sharingan, Eternal Mangekyo Sharingan, Byakugan, Rinnegan, Rinne Sharingan, wood release, various Kekkei Genkais and a Kekkei Mōra, all five main nature types, storm release, yin release, yang release, yin-yang release, they went from being reanimated to fully alive fully, prevented themselves from being reanimated, founded the Hidden Leaf Villager (and came up with the name) along with Hashirama, became jinchuriki of the ten tails (and by extension, the nine tailed beasts), and an incarnation of Indra, their body contained cells from the first Hokage and absorbed the chakra of multiple shinobi, they could rival five kage, as well as three of the previous kage (not sure if he actually fought with Sarutobi), they also got to merge with Black Zetsu to become a princess, head of the Otsutsuki clan, mother to the Sage of Six Paths, Earth’s first wielder of chakra, an alien, and (by extension through Kaguya) the moon! All with pretty much no effort since they were used as a reanimation and (most likely) without being completely conscious. Then again, they did become a rogue shinobi who used forbidden jutsus, a demon and also a cannibal who bit the first Hokage... Even so, assuming this sacrifice came from an ordinary background, they sure have achieved a lot in such a short space of time right? (yeah, I get that technically it wasn’t the sacrifice doing all those feats, but I quite like the sound of this random person just suddenly doing accomplishing all that in barely any time through no choice of their own).

    Of course, a lot of the other sacrifices got the chance to become some really skilled shinobi, including people alive during Kaguya’s time who were turned into Zetsus and became the first four Hokage, but I feel like Madara’s human host sure accomplished a lot. Whilst some of the other sacrifices got covered in sand (pyramids and sinking sand), trapped in puppets, trapped in pots and eaten by a humanoid statue which got sealed into Madara etc.

    Anyway, back to the point. What do you guys think about this whole thing regarding Madara’s host body? Someone’s probably gonna just come up with the most logical answer that the sacrifice stayed attached to Madara and died when he did, but I’d like to see if anyone else has been thinking about this.

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    • I'd assume that Madara's sacrifice used as his body basically died when Madara was revived with the Rinne Tensei, since the body itself was turned into Madara's own body in the moment the RT came into effect. It's a shame it was never explained what happens to the sacrifices' souls when they become the hosts for Edo Tensei souls. It's very much possible that the soul leaves the body in the very moment the other, dead ET soul is inserted into this body instead, but still, it's only an assumption.

      P.S. Just to correct, RT-resurrected Madara wasn't Indra's reincarnation anymore, as stated by Hagoromo, since Indra's soul has already passed onto the other person, namely Sasuke.

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    • I always assumed that the host's soul left the moment their body is taken over. I don't think it makes sense for two souls to stay in one body - if they did, I feel like the manga would have addressed it. So Madara just somehow "consumed" the sacrificial body, and it's pretty messed up.

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    • Well, we know from Jinchuriki that they die if their Biju (a spirit) gets extracted. It seems to me that the sacrifice of an ET only dies because of this. Similar to Jinchuriki, the spirit can take over the body and mold it in it's own image.

      By that analogy, i would suggest that the host is alive until Rinne Tensei is cast. The main reason for this is as mentioned by others: with RT the body became Madara's fully. So it makes sense that the host passed away at that point.

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    • Thing is, with Jinchuuriki, it's always pretty clear that there are, in fact, two separate consciousnesses within one body. It's never been the case with ET. That's why I think the soul, just like the body, gets replaced.

      The Jinchuuriki dying due to Bijuu extraction might as well be due to the fact that it puts a huge strain on the body. After all, those with strong life force could survive it, their own souls weren't touched.

      Or, perhaps you mean that the host is only alive in a physical sense? As in, they retain motor functions and all. In that case, I wouldn't say that it counts as being actually alive. They basically become zombies, husks controlled by someone else's soul.

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    • Kiadony wrote: Thing is, with Jinchuuriki, it's always pretty clear that there are, in fact, two separate consciousnesses within one body. It's never been the case with ET. That's why I think the soul, just like the body, gets replaced. (...) Or, perhaps you mean that the host is only alive in a physical sense? As in, they retain motor functions and all. In that case, I wouldn't say that it counts as being actually alive. They basically become zombies, husks controlled by someone else's soul.

      We saw with Naruto that as he lost control, his body turned into Kurama and his consciousness came under Kurama's control while trapped in the mental plane. So it seems logical to me that the same thing happens to Edo Tensei: the sacrifice becomes mentally trapped as the power sealed inside fully manifests and takes the shape of the sealed spirit, and gets access to all the spirit's powers and abilities.

      Edo Tensei is basically the creation of a jinchuriki for a human, one that intentionally overwrites the human sacrifice. Unlike say Sasuke who was able to keep Orochimaru surpressed, or unlike Bee/Gyuki and Naruto/Kurama who eventually could coexist and freely swap.

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    • Why would the sacrifice's soul be trapped, though? Again, in Oro's case, he was suppressed but eventually emerged. I feel like if the sacrifice's soul was still somewhere inside of their body, the story would have addressed this. There would be talks about possibly bringing the sacrificed person back, or reaching out to them so that they could fight against the reanimated person's soul (which could be potentially pretty interesting). Something like this. I get where you're coming from, but I still think the souls being gone for good is more likely (and one can't actually destroy souls in the Naruto canon, right?).

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    • Kiadony wrote: Why would the sacrifice's soul be trapped, though?

      Why would they be released or removed from the body? The Edo Tensei technique is designed such that the sealed soul overpowers the human sacrifice, so logically the sacrifice would lose control by design.

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    • Thekillman wrote:

      Why would they be released or removed from the body?

      Because the sacrifice is killed in the process. Death = removal of the soul.

      Again, why wouldn't the soul be removed? It's supposed to be replaced by reanimated person's soul, after all.

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    • Ravenlot 27 wrote: P.S. Just to correct, RT-resurrected Madara wasn't Indra's reincarnation anymore, as stated by Hagoromo, since Indra's soul has already passed onto the other person, namely Sasuke.

      Yeah, I know. I mean by extension/association of now being Madara, the sacrifice had was the incarnation of Indra previously, but now they're the former incarnation since Indra's ditched them both in favour of Sasuke.

      Anyway, I never really looked at it in terms of how exactly the human sacrifice could still be alive spiritually/physically, I guess I just like the idea that there is somehow some remnants of the sacrifice that now reside within Madara and therefore there's some existance of the sacrifice beyond that of the memories of loved ones. I guess you could also say that either he is the jinchuriki of 3 human sacrifices (Madara's sacrifice, along with Ginkaku and Kinkaku's sacrifices who were sealed in the Sage's tools, eaten by the Gedo Statue and sealed into Madara), or he's the jinchuriki of 1 and Kaguya's the jinchuriki of 2 sacrifices (depending on where the gold and silver brothers' hosts now reside)

      Kiadony wrote: There would be talks about possibly bringing the sacrificed person back, or reaching out to them so that they could fight against the reanimated person's soul (which could be potentially pretty interesting).

      That's an interesting point. Which leads me to wonder what would happen if someone tried using Edo Tensei to resurrect the hosts of Madara, Ginkaku or Kinkaku from a dead Madara and planetary Kaguya (depending on where the gold and silver brothers' hosts are)...

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    • I believe that we would have seen more of ET mechanics if a plot-important character was ever sacrificed. It just so happened that no one cared about those who were.

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    • Yeah, the only person who we actually saw become a human host was Fū Yamanaka who barely got featured, who people were apparently searching for but didn't get any anywhere with the search party. I feel like if there was a story about trying to get a important character out of being a human sacrifice, either they'll have to try and find a way for Sasuke to do it without risking his life (maybe by cooperating with the tailed beasts?) or Naruto does some talk-no-jutsu on a visiting Ōtsutsuki on the unlikely occasion that they visit in search for the God Tree, or Orochimaru tries developing artificial Rinnegan. I feel like the Rinnegan may become less op and overused (even though there aren't that many known people who can use it at the moment, it'd reduce the rarity and water down the power of rinnegan users) if new characters arrive with rinnegan arrive that are outside of the Ōtsutsuki clan. Even so, I think a story about trying to get a host out of a reanimation jutsu may be interesting.

      Perhaps if enough people subdued Madara when he was revived, Orochimaru could have used him as a sacrifice for the reanimation jutsu and then just instantly released the jutsu to kill off Madara again. Although there'd probably be something about Madara's will/chakra being too strong/powerful in play which would prevent that from happening. Perhaps if Kabuto knew of Obito's identity, he could have reanimated Rin to use as a bargaining chip against Obito.

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    • Kiadony wrote:

      Because the sacrifice is killed in the process.

      We don't know. We only know that once the technique ends, the host is dead. We also know that jinchuriki die upon biju extraction, so that matches.

      Kiadony wrote: Again, why wouldn't the soul be removed? It's supposed to be replaced by reanimated person's soul, after all.

      I don't think it is replaced. The host simply acts as an anchor for the soul, as we've seen souls having very little ability to interact with the world. An Edo is essentially an inverse jinchuriki, in stead of having the soul sealed away for safety the host is intentionally overwhelmed to manifest the soul's power.

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    • Thekillman wrote: We don't know. We only know that once the technique ends, the host is dead. We also know that jinchuriki die upon biju extraction, so that matches.

      I don't think it is replaced. The host simply acts as an anchor for the soul, as we've seen souls having very little ability to interact with the world. An Edo is essentially an inverse jinchuriki, in stead of having the soul sealed away for safety the host is intentionally overwhelmed to manifest the soul's power.

      Well, let's just agree to disagree, it's all speculation anyway.

      I may be drawing parallels with something external like the Soul Tear shout in Skyrim.

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    • Well, it also seems logical to me that the sacrifice's soul gets replaced by the soul of a reanimation, and thus, only the body is technically alive, but there's already only one soul within it, the soul of reincarnated person. I mean, when Edo Tensei is cancelled, only this soul is seen leaving the body and departing to the Pure Land, there's no reason to believe that the sacrfice's soul wouldn't accompany the reanimation's soul if it was still there, in the same body.

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    • Ravenlot 27 wrote: I mean, when Edo Tensei is cancelled, only this soul is seen leaving the body and departing to the Pure Land, there's no reason to believe that the sacrfice's soul wouldn't accompany the reanimation's soul if it was still there, in the same body.

      Only with Edo Tensei do we specifically see the (summoned) soul leaving the body. In every other case, whenever there's a regular death, no soul is seen leaving.

      So regardless of when the Edo Tensei's host dies, we won't see it. After all, if the host lost it's soul during the formation of ET, wouldn't we see the soul leaving as well?

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