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  • I know it sounds spiteful, but I can't get around this question. I know academically, Itachi scored the highest in Leaf Village history, second only to Minato. I also know that he graduated from the Academy at 7, became a chunin at 10, and became an anbu captain at 13. Because of this, in many of Itachi's versus debates, such as Itachi vs. Madara, Itachi vs. Nagato, etc., people constantly argue that Itachi will find some way to "outsmart" his opponent and win. But in every battle Itachi has ever been in, he's pulled out a previously unheard of technique to either save his life or win the fight. His fights are the definition of anti-climatic, yet he's regarded as some kind of strategical genius. Despite this, I believe Sasuke is a way better strategist than he is. What are your opinions?

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    • he was only a battle/fighting genius. no more, no less. u can say that he can calculate the angle of a kunai, to hit a certain target, but if it was anything but a kunai and a target, he wouldn't be able to do it.

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    • Lorenzo.r.1st wrote: he was only a battle/fighting genius. no more, no less. u can say that he can calculate the angle of a kunai, to hit a certain target, but if it was anything but a kunai and a target, he wouldn't be able to do it.

      I'll assume you mean Sasuke, because Itachi can do so much more. He played Sasuke like a fiddle up until Obito survived Amaterasu, and still had a backup plan in the form of the Kotoamatsukami he implanted in Naruto. He's more than just tactically adept; he's exceptionally insightful and manipulative, even to those he loves.

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    • Yet his backup plan didn't work. Neither did his attempt to kill Obito or keep the real reason behind the Uchiha Massacre a secret. Itachi might be very intelligent, but I've never seen anything from him that puts him over his brother combat-wise.

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    • He is regarded a genius in the sense that he's mastered several techniques at a young age. He can use both Sharingan and MS Sharingan in a very seamless manner that's not seen in a Uchiha (Sasuke has to quit everything he's doing just to put someone in a shitty genjutsu), he's exceptionally fast (he could use sleight of hand tricks with his shuriken whose speed Sasuke had to match up with scrolls) and he's supposedly a tactical genius, although as you said, most of his canon fights happened against opponents of lower caliber than him and in the case of Kabuto, Kishimoto decided to give him a deus ex machina jutsu in the form of Izanami.

      Yes, his plans eventually crumbled down, but he was pretty close to realizing them considering how ambitious his gambit was. It relied on Sasuke killing Itachi, which he did. Then transplanting his eyes, which he did. He even accounted for Tobi's dickishness. Unfortunately, what he couldn't foresee was Kabuto growing that strong in such a short period of time and improving that much upon the Edo Tensei. Contrast that to Minato's gambit with the whole programming his chakra and his wife's chakra inside Naruto - that was cool, yes, but there was no way that would have failed.

      Unfortunately, this spawns a few Itachi fanboys who genuinely believe that Itachi's faster than lightning, that Itachi's yata mirror can tank meteorites and that Itachi's 60 steps ahead of even the most prodigious of ninjas like Shisui, Minato, et cetera.

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    • Well, a character can only be as smart as the author. There are plenty of instances in the manga where supposedly smart characters do pretty obvious things and are praised for that. So we can only go by portrayal when gauging characters' intelligence, and Kishimoto did portray Itachi as a genius.

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    • DanteofSixPaths wrote: Yet his backup plan didn't work. Neither did his attempt to kill Obito or keep the real reason behind the Uchiha Massacre a secret. Itachi might be very intelligent, but I've never seen anything from him that puts him over his brother combat-wise.

      So its itachis fault obito had kamui(the counter to amaterasu)?@DOS itachi vs madara...no matter how smart itachi is he is not gonna win,same with nagato.

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    • ^Obito was not saved by Kamui. He was saved by the never-ending shelf of Sharingan that he kept in his hideout. Itachi's plan actually killed him, but he used Izanagi.

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    • It was rather Kamui than Izanagi. The third databook description implies he used his "mysterious ability" which made him intouchable in combat, and while the databook calls him Madara at that point, this ability still is nothing but Kamui. Also, Itachi knew all about Izanagi, including its history, there's no way he couldn't foresee Obito using it, while Obito himself said he survived only thanks to the "several things kept hidden from Itachi". This hidden info could be only the Kamui mechanics.

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    • ^I guess I missed that. I did read that part of the databook and it always struck me as Kishimoto's way of concealing the Izanagi since it was not revealed at that point until the Danzo fight. But I didn't take into consideration Itachi's knowledge on Izanagi hindering his plan, so I guess you're right. My bad.

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    • Aside from battle intellect, didn't Hiruzen say Itachi was thinking like a Hokage at the age of 5, or 6? There has to be some sense of intelligence within that statement that supports his growing mindset.

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    • Ravenlot 27 wrote: Also, Itachi knew all about Izanagi, including its history, there's no way he couldn't foresee Obito using it

      Yea, i realized Izanagi needs to be activated first. But Itachi's plan ensured that Obito had no time to weave those signs, so he would've died from Amaterasu were it not for Kamui.

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    • so, like I said, he is a battle genius. nothing more than that. he had thoughts of a kage strategy-wise, where he could see which ways would make the leaf better, and so and so forth. he basically has a quick mind, so he learns shit faster. that includes his thought-process, which is why he is a such a good strategist. and yet, u can tell that he isn't as smart as shikaku or shikamaru, in the same way. those two are 'intelligent', but itachi is 'smart'.. there's a difference.

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    • Mr. Grave wrote: He is regarded a genius in the sense that he's mastered several techniques at a young age. He can use both Sharingan and MS Sharingan in a very seamless manner that's not seen in a Uchiha (Sasuke has to quit everything he's doing just to put someone in a shitty genjutsu), he's exceptionally fast (he could use sleight of hand tricks with his shuriken whose speed Sasuke had to match up with scrolls) and he's supposedly a tactical genius, although as you said, most of his canon fights happened against opponents of lower caliber than him and in the case of Kabuto, Kishimoto decided to give him a deus ex machina jutsu in the form of Izanami.

      Yes, his plans eventually crumbled down, but he was pretty close to realizing them considering how ambitious his gambit was. It relied on Sasuke killing Itachi, which he did. Then transplanting his eyes, which he did. He even accounted for Tobi's dickishness. Unfortunately, what he couldn't foresee was Kabuto growing that strong in such a short period of time and improving that much upon the Edo Tensei. Contrast that to Minato's gambit with the whole programming his chakra and his wife's chakra inside Naruto - that was cool, yes, but there was no way that would have failed.

      Unfortunately, this spawns a few Itachi fanboys who genuinely believe that Itachi's faster than lightning, that Itachi's yata mirror can tank meteorites and that Itachi's 60 steps ahead of even the most prodigious of ninjas like Shisui, Minato, et cetera.

      I get that, but Sasuke has literally done the exact same thing. In fact, the techniques he learns are even stronger than Itachi's, for example, Fireball Jutsu, Chidori, and Kirin. "Sasuke has to quit everything he's doing just to put someone in a shitty genjutsu" Lol, Sasuke has one of the best, if not the best genjutsu feat in the series. To be clear, I don't have a problem with Susanoo, Izanami or any of Itachi's techs. I have a problem with the fact that whenever Itachi pulls out some unknown jutsu he is hailed as a genius, while Sasuke almost always uses strategy in his fights and doesn't get the same recognition.

      Honestly, I can't see how Itachi thought Amaterasu would take care of the man he thought was Madara Uchiha. For him to even be living at that point in time he'd have to be near immortal. You're right about Kabuto though, I don't think anybody saw him getting that strong.

      Agreed

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    • DanteofSixPaths wrote: To be clear, I don't have a problem with Susanoo, Izanami or any of Itachi's techs. I have a problem with the fact that whenever Itachi pulls out some unknown jutsu he is hailed as a genius, while Sasuke almost always uses strategy in his fights and doesn't get the same recognition.

      I don't recall at any point where Itachi was hailed a genius due to him pulling out unknown jutsus? He mastered many of his clan's techniques, passed at the top of his class, graduated and became chunin, and joined the anbu all at a very young age. That is why he was considered a genius and he has brains to back it up. While I will that say Sasuke has shown to be more battle strategic, Itachi has had even less time than him, and like you said was put against people he was stronger than, so sometimes strategy wasn't always needed.

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    • Because of all the reasons you stated, he is considered smart in the series, so fans will view him as such.

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    • @Rachin123 I'm not talking about in-series, I'm talking about his fanbase. Put Itachi up against anyone, they'll say Itachi will find some way to "outsmart" his opponent. What I'm trying to point out is that Itachi has never actually done that before, most of his techniques are used without any strategy at all. Yet if he goes up against somebody like Naruto, Sasuke, Obito, or Madara who're generally impervious to his techs, his fans say he'll use his intelligence to fill the huge gap between his power and theirs.

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    • ^Well, he is supposed to be this complex edgelord anti-hero. They usually attract a large and toxic fanbase.

      Yes, Sasuke has mastered almost the same techniques, but they made a point to show that he did so a bit later than Itachi. In series, both were considered to be prodigious ninja. But I guess the fandom only has eyes for Itachi.

      Also, bruh, I actually think Sasuke's a decent character and an overall formidable shinobi, but his genjutsu skills pre-Hagoromo hax powerup were shit compared to Itachi's. He needed Shee to veer his attention elsewhere just to put him in a genjutsu. Compare that to Itachi, who owned both Deidara and Orochimaru with relative ease.

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    • DanteofSixPaths wrote:

      @Rachin123 I'm not talking about in-series, I'm talking about his fanbase. Put Itachi up against anyone, they'll say Itachi will find some way to "outsmart" his opponent. What I'm trying to point out is that Itachi has never actually done that before, most of his techniques are used without any strategy at all. Yet if he goes up against somebody like Naruto, Sasuke, Obito, or Madara who're generally impervious to his techs, his fans say he'll use his intelligence to fill the huge gap between his power and theirs.

      Thats like a 1 person out of 1000,i love itachi but i will never say he could outsmart and beat EMS madara for example.

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    • Kakashisologod1 wrote:

      DanteofSixPaths wrote:

      @Rachin123 I'm not talking about in-series, I'm talking about his fanbase. Put Itachi up against anyone, they'll say Itachi will find some way to "outsmart" his opponent. What I'm trying to point out is that Itachi has never actually done that before, most of his techniques are used without any strategy at all. Yet if he goes up against somebody like Naruto, Sasuke, Obito, or Madara who're generally impervious to his techs, his fans say he'll use his intelligence to fill the huge gap between his power and theirs.

      Thats like a 1 person out of 1000,i love itachi but i will never say he could outsmart and beat EMS madara for example.

      Outsmart yes, Beat quite impossible.

      Itachi is classes above Sasuke when it comes down to tactics. He is pretty much on Shikamaru's level, the fact that he thought about using Shisui's eye on Sasuke(and it will only work if he had Itachi's eyes) is more than enough proof. He thought about the outcome of the battle and made it seem as if he was trying to kill Sasuke the whole time, then he had planted Amaterasu(unknowing "Madara's" abilities) into Sasuke to get rid of him, so he wouldn't talk. Then even if "Madara" survived and somehow managed to convince Sasuke of the truth, he still had another back-up plan if the first one failed. He is essentially thinking a few steps ahead.

      No of course he cannot defeat the God tiers of Naruto(a.k.a Naruto, Sasuke, Madara, Hashirama, Juubito, Kaguya, Hagoromo, Hamura, maybe Nagato), but he would still be a match for many great shinobi.

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