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  • Rachin123
    Rachin123 closed this thread because:
    Almost 250 posts. Too long.
    05:33, August 4, 2017

    There was a similar thread a while back, but that was closed before a decisive outcome was achieved. I invite users to come up with new ideas and interesting versions of this fight.

    For your consideration:

    1) This is Part 2 Itachi that is not dying.

    2) This is alive Hokage Minato.

    3) Fair fights, no plot armor and both have their usual apparel.

    4) Location: Amegakure

    Who would win and how?

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    • I'll would say Itachi.

      Before some one put out blitz thing , that ain't gonna happen Itachi most of the time starts battle with his crow clone , and also has more options to take down Minato

      He has Sharingan Eye of Insight , Susano to guard him from any incoming attack and most important thing he relay on genjtusu which is perfect here in my opinion.

      It doesn't need to be Tsukuyomi he needs eye contact for that , but any other genjtusu would be good to use on Minato just like one he did to Orochimaru.

      Now the part with Itachi low chakra pool. Well in my opinion that isn't going to be problem against Minato since they fight to death and Minato battle style looks like going for fast kill , which Itachi in my opinion would be able to survive and counter.

      So I'll vote for Itachi , his genjtusu will be key to win.

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    • itachi, in this case. any other form of minato would win imo (besides for edo, since they are weaker)

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    • @Killer723

      Though, how likely is it that Minato will be caught in genjutsu? Would Itachi be able to cast non-sharingan genjutsu faster than Minato can attack him?

      Also, Susanoo probably won't be used till the end of the fight and Minato can warp it away.

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    • Minato would likely be in a genjutsu before he can even toss a kunai. If Itachi gets him in a Tsukuyomi he can finish him off easily with a Amaterasu. I'd have to give it to Itachi's eyes in this one

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    • @Ninja Of War

      Well as i said even if he make first attack , before Itachi does , he will trigger crow clone which is going to distract him. (chance for Itachi to trap him )

      As for Susanoo , full armored might be used at the end of battle, which is not needed in my opinion , since even skeletal Susanoo would be enough to keep him safe from direct hit. ( And if Minato fail to strike Itachi cuz of Susanoo , another chance to trap him )

      There is more possibility that Itachi have more info over Minato. Minato was even dead when Itachi killed his clan plus Minato was a legendary yellow flash , there's no way Itachi never heard of it.

      That is also huge advantage here for Itachi. Lemme explain since if he knows Minato battle style he is surely not going to hold Susanoo back or let his guard down for a moment or so.

      There is simply more scenario where Minato is going to be in genjtusu rather then Itachi being one shotted by Minato.

      Any close contact with Itachi is a risk for Minato to get caught , so ye i still think Itachi got this.

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    • Minato dodges everything tht itachi got and proceeds to "U KNW"

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    • minato can move faster than the eye itself, how can itach fight someone he can't see

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    • Alright and how is Minato going to fight some one who can finish him with genjtusu and Minato doesn't know that.

      Lets take example when he fought Obito , he didn't knew for Kamui , but Obito had him at one point , but Minato was able to retreat analyze and attack again.

      But against Itachi he won't have second chance if he make mistake like that. ( this is genjtusu we talking about )

      The point is Minato doesn't know that he fights genjtusu genius if both of them have info over each other then it would be different story but like this , am afraid itachi win.

      No matter how fast he is , if he cut down crow clone or hit Susanoo he will have to slow down at one point and analyze situation.

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    • and you think minato will let his guard down to be caught in genjutsu

      first he wont be caught in tsukuyomi cuz' he moves faster than itachi's reaction time so he won't be able to make eye contact to minato

      second itachi battles to finish his opponent off in mere minutes, that's why he uses genjutsu but due to his illness and low chakra he can't maintain susanoo for longer and since he can't catch mianto on his tsukuyomi, minato will finish him off in mere seconds, as soon as the battle starts

      third itachi said that if was placed to fight with jiraiya, the way to kill him was by killing also himself (which means they are tied), honestly do you think minato is weaker than jiraiya? he outcalsses him whenever he wants

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    • Uzumaki1naruto wrote: and you think minato will let his guard down to be caught in genjutsu

      first he wont be caught in tsukuyomi cuz' he moves faster than itachi's reaction time so he won't be able to make eye contact to minato

      second itachi battles to finish his opponent off in mere minutes, that's why he uses genjutsu but due to his illness and low chakra he can't maintain susanoo for longer and since he can't catch mianto on his tsukuyomi, minato will finish him off in mere seconds, as soon as the battle starts

      third itachi said that if was placed to fight with jiraiya, the way to kill him was by killing also himself (which means they are tied), honestly do you think minato is weaker than jiraiya? he outcalsses him whenever he wants

      I think Minato is just Jiraiya with FTG lol. They both have large chakra reserves, SM, Rasengan, and sealing jutsu. But Minato is slightly stronger due to his speed. Itachi can't beat Minato here.

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    • Itachi with low chakra reserves would lose against Minato, though it wouldn't be an easy win for him. However, if I'm not mistaken, the only reason why Itachi's chakra reserves were depleted was because of his illness. So if we're to assume that Itachi is not dying for the sake of this battle, then Minato would lose this fight. Like, even if nothing works out, Itachi could use Izanami and kill Minato while he's stunned.

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    • Mr. Grave wrote: Itachi with low chakra reserves would lose against Minato, though it wouldn't be an easy win for him. However, if I'm not mistaken, the only reason why Itachi's chakra reserves were depleted was because of his illness. So if we're to assume that Itachi is not dying for the sake of this battle, then Minato would lose this fight. Like, even if nothing works out, Itachi could use Izanami and kill Minato while he's stunned.

      it was never stated that itachi's low chakra reserves were because of his Illness.

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    • Like, even if nothing works out, Itachi could use Izanami and kill Minato while he's stunned.
      

      izanami won't work here cuz' minato doesn't think to be like someone else and accepts himself as he is

      @rafalerios123 "As an Uchiha, while Itachi's chakra was naturally strong, his actual reserves were below average, caused from his terminal illness. This prevented him from participating in prolonged battles and limited his use of Mangekyō Sharingan techniques to three times a day before he needed significant rest, at which point even his Sharingan deactivated." direct from his wiki page

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    • @Uzumaki1naruto and where is the wikia source from this?manga never stated that his chakra reserves were duo to his ilness.

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    • He doesn't need Tsukuyomi to take down Minato. Any other genjtusu will do same thing if he is able to paralyze him.

      And that same thing would be outcome of genjtusu he cast. i've already gave you examples how and why.

      This battle is not about Tsukuyomi, when he got Ephemeral , a prefect genjtusu to take him out.

      jiraiya and Minato are two different characters with two different battle styles i don't know why are you bringing jiraiya here. Outcome is still the same , Itachi win.

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    • Itachi at his prime with no sickness vs Minato at his prime before his death (because it would be pure rape to give him Bjuu mode)

      Strategy wise, I think Itachi may be able to get the best of Minato but then again in terms of stamina and speed Minato would definitely beat him there unless Itachi pulled up the Susanoo. Honestly I'd say the match could go either way for these two extremely competent Shinobi.

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    • @Killer723

      Itachi doesn't have all the intel on Minato. Since Minato was quite famous and Hokage he probably knows of him, but I doubt in detail.

      On the other hand, Hokage Minato knows a lot about the Uchiha clan in general. As Hokage, it is not so unreasonable to assume that Minato knew the particulars of the Uchiha clan and all the other clans. He certainly knew about Madara. Uchiha's are particularly known for their Fire release, genjutsu and shurikenjutsu and of course, the Sharingan's predictive capabilities.

      Minato also had a student that was an Uchiha and saw how the sharingan was used to complete Kakashi's Raikiri. With all this in mind, it is highly unlikely that Minato will be surprised at Itachi skills.

      Now, would Minato be caught in genjutsu? I'd say highly unlikely. Due to Minato's battle style, he wouldn't give Itachi a chance to cast non-sharingan genjutsu. Ephemeral and crow clone genjutsu have only been used on Naruto and not conclusive enough to say it would work on Minato as well.

      There are also some issues with these jutsu's, as if they were as powerful as you say they were, why were they not used on Kabuto when Itachi and Sasuke fought him?

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    • @Ninja Of War There is a flaw on your logic,kabuto was immune to any visual genjutsu so how the hell would itachi use on him?Minato is not immune to genjusu so far we know,maybe he was skilled enough to brea free of it,who knows.

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    • ^What flaw? I was talking about Ephermeral and Crow clone genjutsu that are not sharingan based, therefore not visual genjutsu.

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    • Ninja Of War wrote: ^What flaw? I was talking about Ephermeral and Crow clone genjutsu that are not sharingan based, therefore not visual genjutsu.

      I guess they still count as visual genjutsu though.

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    • ^Why do you say so?

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    • Ninja Of War wrote: ^Why do you say so?

      i'm pretty sure that naruto looked on itachi's finger when he used ephemeral.

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    • ^However on the wiki, it states that Ephemeral, Mirage clone and demonic shackles require no eye contact. Therefore, my question is why didn't he use it on Kabuto?

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    • Killer723 wrote: He doesn't need Tsukuyomi to take down Minato. Any other genjtusu will do same thing if he is able to paralyze him.

      And that same thing would be outcome of genjtusu he cast. i've already gave you examples how and why.

      This battle is not about Tsukuyomi, when he got Ephemeral , a prefect genjtusu to take him out.

      jiraiya and Minato are two different characters with two different battle styles i don't know why are you bringing jiraiya here. Outcome is still the same , Itachi win.

      1- ephemeral won't work on minato, since he was jiraiya's excelent student he probably had learned to counter most of them, also as soon as sakura touched naruto he got away from that genjutsu meaning that it is not that strong and minato will break it

      2- i put jiraiya here because it was itachi's statement which said that he was as strong as jiraiya and the best he could do to kill jiraiya was to die

      @Rafaelrios123 here => http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Itachi_Uchiha#Chakra_and_Physical_Prowess

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    • Uzumaki1naruto wrote:

      Killer723 wrote: He doesn't need Tsukuyomi to take down Minato. Any other genjtusu will do same thing if he is able to paralyze him.

      And that same thing would be outcome of genjtusu he cast. i've already gave you examples how and why.

      This battle is not about Tsukuyomi, when he got Ephemeral , a prefect genjtusu to take him out.

      jiraiya and Minato are two different characters with two different battle styles i don't know why are you bringing jiraiya here. Outcome is still the same , Itachi win.

      1- ephemeral won't work on minato, since he was jiraiya's excelent student he probably had learned to counter most of them, also as soon as sakura touched naruto he got away from that genjutsu meaning that it is not that strong and minato will break it

      2- i put jiraiya here because it was itachi's statement which said that he was as strong as jiraiya and the best he could do to kill jiraiya was to die

      @Rafaelrios123 here => http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Itachi_Uchiha#Chakra_and_Physical_Prowess

      Dude I do know that it is on the wikia but you didn't undestood what I meant,there is no reference on his page from where this information came from,the reference there is only to the fact that he was able to perform his techniques with one hand seal.

      But I will ask again where whoever wrote this on his page got the information from?

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    • dude i post what i read here, since it's written here why i or you should assume it's wrong

      if you want to clear your thoughts you should speak with Omega64 a sysop at naruto answers wiki, he knows everything abt naruto here is the link http://naruto.answers.wikia.com/wiki/Message_Wall:Omega64 you can talk to him for whatever you want. (lately he has been vey busy cuz' he has started a full-time job)

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    • being here on the wikia doesn't make it automatically true,that statement is highly doubtful since there is no source from the information someone should bring it up on his talk page I would do it but I don't have idea of how to do it.

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    • Okay, I change my answer. I'm going Minato on this one. I briefly forgot that Izanami does not work that way (sorry, I tend to forget sometimes) and I'm not sure if Itachi's low chakra reserves are related to his illness or not, but either way I think Minato would have a good shot. Itachi relies too much on genjutsu to be honest and, as I've been corrected, I don't think there's any genjutsu that can catch up to Minato. His quick reflexes enable him to easily dodge Amaterasu and take down Itachi.

      Honestly, FTG is the bane of a Sharingan user. It explains how Tobirama, a FTG user, was able to defeat Izuna, a Mangekyou user, who was said to be on par with MS Madara.

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    • Rafaelrios123 wrote: being here on the wikia doesn't make it automatically true,that statement is highly doubtful since there is no source from the information someone should bring it up on his talk page I would do it but I don't have idea of how to do it.

      https://www.google.al/search?hl=sq&biw=1366&bih=638&site=webhp&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=obito+tells+the+truth+about+itachi%27s+ilness&oq=obito+tells+the+truth+about+itachi%27s+ilness&gs_l=img.3...259857.262281.0.263022.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0..0.0....0...1.1.64.img..0.0.0.bnOuPX3p-DM#imgrc=2bNDENtH9Ly0WM:

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    • @Uzumaki1naruto

      Naruto was also Jiraiya student and he wasn't able to break it , he needed help from Chiyo and Sakura to free him from it.

      Itachi statment about Jiraiya is still a speculation , maybe he said that cuz he didn't want Jiraiya to be killed, he was still defending hidden leaf from akatsuki remember? lets be real Kisame and Itachi would destroy Jiraiya

      @Ninja Of War

      Kabuto was enhanced with Senjtusu , also he had DNA from many clans including Uzumaki. So most likely he gained enough resilience to resist it. there is also many unclear questions like why he didn't use Yata Mirror there , but anyway.

      Now before any one say Minato can use Senjtusu as well http://i7.mangareader.net/naruto/667/naruto-4827249.jpg

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    • Killer723 wrote: @Uzumaki1naruto

      Naruto was also Jiraiya student and he wasn't able to break it , he needed help from Chiyo and Sakura to free him from it.

      naruto didn't train with jiraiya as long as minato did, i mean jiraiya's main purpose was to make naruto a perfect jichuriki, minato's dream in order to defend konoha

      sakura just touched him and he was freed, this is how strong that genjutsu was, plus naruto then was only 15 and half yrs while minato is 21 so his experience and training is far more greater than naruto's back than, and it shouldn't be a surprise that minato should be able break from ephemeral

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    • Gkwimz wrote: Minato would likely be in a genjutsu before he can even toss a kunai. If Itachi gets him in a Tsukuyomi he can finish him off easily with a Amaterasu. I'd have to give it to Itachi's eyes in this one

      Which is not gonna happen easily.At very best itachi takes this high difficulty.@Uzumaki1naruto its not the point that she touched him.Jiraya said that even the strongest genjutsus can be broke simply by touching(not including eye genjutsus.

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    • make itachi edo and he wins

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    • Mcpowa wrote: make itachi edo and he wins

      Give minato hag powers and he wins /thread

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    • nah just make minato edo u dont need to give him hag powers for the win =)

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    • @Uzumaki1naruto

      alright then , tell me why didn't Orochimaru break free unharmed ?

      what was case with him ?

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    • My vote is with Minato

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    • QuakingStar
      QuakingStar removed this reply because:
      not serious
      04:19, June 21, 2017
      This reply has been removed
    • QuakingStar wrote: No guys, you got it all wrong, you guys are true Naruto fans.. so we all know Choji beats Itachi. Choji for ta winz. Minato is an unstoppable god... except when he faces Hashirama, Madara, Naruto, Sasuke because according to this fandom here they are even more unstoppable god like than Minato is gaiz. Itachi is weaker than Kurenai we all know dis gaiz totally

      Choji stomps kaguya easily,the fck ?Are you doubting in skinny god choji?

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    • QuakingStar
      QuakingStar removed this reply because:
      not serious
      04:19, June 21, 2017
      This reply has been removed
    • On a serious note, nobody should be taking Itachi vs threads serious. He will always be disrespected, undermined, and underestimated in these forums. So why not close this thread right now? I also propose that from here on out people need to post panels and translations for their proofs and feats on each character.. and appreciation threads need to be stickied so people can get the feats and what not they need from there.

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    • lol yeah sure. but the way u guys say he can just genjutsu everybody the same way (finger and tsukuyomi), he might as well be hagoromo lvl, know what I mean? (does this count as a burn?)

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    • You do realize Genjutsu isn't a one shot or a op thing right?? Genjutsu is used mostly as a feint, or a distraction. That is literally all someone like Itachi needs, yet YOU and people like you act like it's ineffective period. Also no, that's not a burn.. nice try tho.

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    • what do u mean nice try? u were one of the people that said that he could kill madara with it, so I guess u are contradicting urself, there buddy

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    • Lorenzo.r.1st wrote: what do u mean nice try? u were one of the people that said that he could kill madara with it, so I guess u are contradicting urself, there buddy

      He never said that,@Quaking made it clear that he belives that MS users can break it.

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    • Not closing the thread, because it's not a clear victory for either side. @Quaking, just because you choose to believe Itachi is undermined by the majority doesn't mean others shouldn't get the chance to discuss.

      In fact, maybe you should wonder why the majority doesn't share your certainty in his abilities. Yes, he's a very formidable opponent. Your opinion of him seems to be higher than most other users here though.

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    • @Killer723 he couldn't break free cuz' itachi caught him with Demonic Illusion: Shackling Stakes Technique which requires the use of the Genjutsu: Sharingan an eye contact genjutsu. while ephemeral doesn't require eye contact

      we expelled tsukuyomi and eye contact genjutsu since minato moves faster than the eye itself

      @Kakashisologod1 itachi said that the best he could do to kill jiraiya is to kill himself too, meaning that since itachi's strong point is his variety of genjutsu, jiraiya knew how to counter them (expelling eye contact ones, for them you just don't need to look at his eyes and nothing happens) and you really think that jiraiya didn't teach minato how to counter genjutsu?

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    • @Uzumaki1naruto Yes he would be able to counter gejntusu , a weak genjtusu.

      But here we have Itachi one of the two greatest users of genjtusu in his clan.

      Not just in terms of power , but the way he adapted them in his battle style , simply the way he's using them.

      Now let me give a little scenario and I will see your answer on this.

      alright so you do agree that there is possible way for him to get into Ephemeral , but you are saying that he's gonna break it , i can agree on that.

      So Minato breaks free , now after Minato breaks free what's he gonna do ? recklessly attack Itachi ? if he do crown clone is there and bam risk for him to make eye contact or ( another genjtusu chained ).

      If he stood for a Moment which i believe that Minato will do after breaking free and trying to analyze what happened, and how did he ended up in genjtusu, bam another chance to get eye contact.

      So in other words , all Itachi has to do is to make eye contact. Now for Minato to win , he needs to approach Itachi without making eye contact (blind side if possible) use his FTG or Rassengan to win.

      And as i said his FTG will most likely be used on Crow clone and bam distract and eye contact , worst case for Itachi would be to have manifest Susanoo to guard him , but then again , bam eye contact.

      Have you forgot guy's advice for Kakashi how to fight Itachi , even tho they had information over Itachi.

      Now i understand that Minato would try to avoid the eye contact , it can be logical , but i believe that i have gave you enough examples of how Itachi gonna force Minato to make eye contact , Minato was Hokage yellow flash , while he doesn't even know who and what Itachi is , am also sure that he doesn't even think that he gonna get killed from eye contact.

      So you can say he is fast , that's only thing i hear so far , he is fast he's not gonna be caught by eye , alright but what if he get distracted would he still remain fast ? Would that slow him down a little ? Would he just move recklessly without information's over Itachi and pressing the attack ?


      I personally believe that there is way more scenario's where Minato makes eye contact rather then just being fast and win.


      He won't be able to finish Itachi fast as people think. Neither Tobirama was able to kill easily Izuna and he was touted as fastest shinobi ever. But Izuna didn't had one shot eye contact , he had other advantages over Itachi.

      Never mind that , the thing is. Itachi battle style , jutsu arsenal , are simply counter for Minato who doesn't have information over Itachi nor genjtusu resilience.

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    • @Killer723

      I don't understand why you're still claiming that Minato doesn't have intel on Itachi and that Itachi has a lot of intel on Minato. Hokage Minato knows about Madara and all the clans in the village, their specialties and history. Reasonably, he should know the core of the Uchiha's abilities, which are genjutsu, shurikenjutsu and fire release and of course the sharingan. Which are the core of Itachi's battle style.

      Minato is definitely not gonna be surprised that Itachi, who is an Uchiha, specializes in genjutsu. I find it highly unlikely that Minato would get caught in genjutsu, due to his quick battle style and his fine chakra control.

      For the actual battle, I see Minato attacking and throwing his kunai in strategic locations. Itachi would try to end the fight with genjutsu, but wouldn't work in my opinion. Itachi might try to weave signs for jutsu but Minato wouldn't let him, so Itachi is forced to use his shurikenjutsu, taijutsu to fend off Minato's initial assault.

      They would both back off after this and analyze each other's abilities at this point.

      How would the terrain affect the battle though?

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    • @Killer723 you make it sound so easy for itachi to make eye contact with someone even itachi can't see or react against to. now all your examples were like itachi could make minato to let his guard down whenever he wants, man minato didn't let his goard down for a moment angainst A.

      you realy think that after binato breaks a genjutsu he'll stop and say "what happened to me?" of course something this isn't gonna happen, as soon as he breaks bree he'll eventually do Spiralling Flash Super Round Dance Howl Style Three, something that itachi can't even think to react against, even if he somehow manages to activate his susanoo before the attack (it's ridiculous) you think he'll mintain it for long? with his levels of chakra it won't stand for too long and as soon as it vanishes it's over

      you said that he hasn't any intel on itachi, same goes for obito and he had a jutsu (kamui) which no one had ever seen then, sth that exceeds itachi's genjutsu, sth which he is invisible with and no one could thouch him before minato and minato not only hit with rasengan someone who can't be touched but also marked him before he realised that had been hit and of course he will have easy to mark even itachi

      minato is simply stronger

      THIS IS MY ANSWER (it's not yelling, just to emphasize it ^_^)

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    • You have literally no proof he couldn't see or react to Minato.. the only problem will be FTG which is not speed, but teleportation. You all keep making shit up about Itachi, adding limits and weaknesses you have no proof for at all. Itachi is faster than Sasuke who is faster than Obito and Madara, Minato was only BARELY faster than Obito when he was 14. Stop wanking the fuck out of him already.

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    • literally itachi can't see him if he only uses FTG all the time

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    • He needs to mark things and people for FTG. Itachi knows all about FTG and how it works, he also knows all about Minato too considering he was alive and 5 years old when Minato was Hokage and died. You need to remember Itachi studied the history of Konoha and its ninja and that included current history and ninja. FTG is not an end all against ninja like Itachi, but it does help Minato a lot.

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    • QuakingStar wrote: You have literally no proof he couldn't see or react to Minato.. the only problem will be FTG which is not speed, but teleportation. You all keep making shit up about Itachi, adding limits and weaknesses you have no proof for at all. Itachi is faster than Sasuke who is faster than Obito and Madara, Minato was only BARELY faster than Obito when he was 14. Stop wanking the fuck out of him already.

      I'm sorry - Sasuke's faster than Madara and Obito how exactly? Sure, current Sasuke's extremely fast, but he was nowhere near this speed when he fought Itachi.

      As for adding limits and weaknesses to Itachi, I'm not saying Itachi's not strong. He probably still remains in the top ten. But as far as feats go, Minato has displayed far more feats than Itachi, feats that have actually been organically incorporated into the plot unlike Itachi's Izanami which was pure fanservice. "Oh, but Grave-senpai, he took down Nagato who had the Rinnegan!", he did mindless Nagato while being helped by the two strongest Jinchuuriki. We've seen him fight against Sasuke, but whatever happened in that fight remains unclear as we're still unsure what part of that battle was Itachi hesitating and what part of it was his illness so we're gonna discard it. And as I said earlier, his fight against Kabuto was pure fanservice (and either way, as someone pointed out, Izanami wouldn't work on Minato) In short, we've never seen Itachi take on a Kage-level shinobi like Minato.

      Minato had only two episodes to make an impression, and he made Tobi his bitch all the while back and forthing between saving his wife and stopping the Nine Tails' carnage. Yeah, Tobi was a 14 years old kid...with Hashirama's cells and a broken Mangekyou ability which had a very limited window of opportunity. And where did you gather that Minato was barely faster than Obito? Just because Obito ALMOST got the drop on him once, while Minato had just warped away a Tailed Beast ball? When Ay powered up against Sasuke during the Kage Summit, Shee commented that Ay's reflexes had been enhanced to be on par with Konoha's yellow flash. Yeah - Ay needed a powerup to catch up to Minato's natural reflexes, so his speed wasn't only thanks to FTG. More importantly, why are you even mentioning age like it matters? Your beloved Itachi himself was a teenager when he murdered his clan while Naruto and Sasuke were fighting the likes of Danzo and Pain at the age of 16. Age does not equal skill in Naruto. And Minato is skilled to the point where even Kishimoto had to nerf him during the Fourth War because he would be too useful.

      Historically speaking, if Tobirama could take down Izuna who was said to be on par with MS Madara, then Minato who, by Tobirama's own admission, is faster than him, can take down Itachi. I'm not saying it's gonna be easy, probably mid-to-high difficulty, but he will do it in the end. He at least knows the basics of a sharingan so he knows not to look at Itachi

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    • Minato actually gained a non-sense boost that we never knew he had it and still wasn't any impressive at all at the war,Tobirama was by far the best hokage on the war.(how was he nerfed I will never know).

      And I didn't undestand that tobira>izuna logic neither,how being faster is the same thing of being stronger?both Tobirama and minato were the fastest from their time,not the strongest.

      And I'm pretty sure tobirama statement was that minato usage was better than his own,not sure if that mean that he was faster though.

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    • If Minato is not allowed to use nine-tails chakra mode, then Itachi can't use Susanoo either. Since Minato is faster than lightning, I give my vote for Minato.

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    • That's stupid. In life he did not have Kurama, Itachi had Susanoo in life. Get over it.

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    • Technically, he did have Kurama in life. He successfully sealed Kurama in himself before he died, so that does count, even if he has no feats to suggest he could use said power. I'm pretty sure he is still skilled enough to tap into said power if he needed to.

      Also, is it stated in the manga that Itachi knows how the FTG works? Minato can also control the seal to travel to and transfer from object to object. The chances of Itachi getting tagged with the FTG seal are way to high for him to avoid it with his shown speed.

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    • @Ninja Of War He knew about Madara who took nine tail and attacked village , well that is really no surprise , since Madara was noted as legendary uchiha , however that still doesn't change that Minato have no knowledge over MS abilities which is why he felt on Kamui not just once , but almost twice got pulled.

      Well i believe that Minato will be dead surprised when he get caught , just like Kakashi was.

      To make a note that against Obito he even knew that he was an uchiha but he didn't really bother not to make eye contact with him , to be more correct if Obito would relay on genjtusu like Itachi does , outcome of that battle would be really bad for Minato.

      Now why am keep saying that Itachi has intel over Minato.

      http://www.mangareader.net/naruto/619/11

      In other words Itachi was maybe 6-10 (am ain't really sure for his age here) , when Minato was hokage and if he used to study his ancestors why wouldn't he know about Yellow flash of the leaf , to repeat Yellow flash of the leaf his nickname tells you everything plus he was part of the Akatsuki , and he was spy as well. ( he knew even for lady chiyo. )

      So taking Itachi knowledge over all this, i would really be free to say that Itachi has intel over Minato in this battle.

      @Uzumaki1naruto

      even if he doesn't let his guard down its really irrelevant at this point , there are many ways to make eye contact , i've gave you few examples even exchanging attacks can trigger eye contact.

      Yes i think he will stop and say what happened to me , he have done that when he passed trough Obito didn't he ? I know that this is Kamui and genjtusu , but i think he might take a wonder how he ended up in genjtusu.

      As for battle with Obito , i can just give all credits to Obito since he was 14 years old , and he fought Hokage level and almost won. But lack of experience led to lose outcome.

      Yes that's just the thing he also never seen Tsukuyomi, and he wont survive to make a counter attack.

      his slash was never shown , but i assume it can be stopped with Susanoo or just wasted with crow clone.

      Well if this is Itachi that is not dying i assume that his vision wasn't exhausted as it was against Sasuke.

      Only then he would be able to win , putting deaf near blind Itachi against Minato then there's nothing to debate i guess.

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    • @QuakingStar, calm down.

      Why is most Itachi supporters jumping on the bandwagon that Itachi knows all the details of Minato and how his jutsu operates? This is a very bold statement to make and needs appropriate evidence to back it up.

      Minato has been stated as being the fastest shinobi in history. Minato is also not "barely faster than Obito", he is much faster than Obito. He managed to escape Kamui twice, teleport to one of his kunai above Obito's head, spin around, form a rasengan and land it on Obito before he could even react.

      In any case, Minato has all the techs needed to deal with Itachi. Any comments on my earlier rundown of the fight?

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    • Ninja Of War wrote: @QuakingStar, calm down.

      Why is most Itachi supporters jumping on the bandwagon that Itachi knows all the details of Minato and how his jutsu operates? This is a very bold statement to make and needs appropriate evidence to back it up.

      Honestly, I can't entirely disagree with that argument. Minato was a Hokage, a celebrity. They probably knew about his shenanigans during the war. It's like when that ANBU guy immediately discerned Hashirama's Deep Forest Emergence jutsu in Part 1 during the Konoha Crush. However, I also agree with your earlier statement about Minato knowing the basic details behind the Uchiha and really, that's all Minato needs. That's why he won't fall prey to the Tsukuyomi, at least not as easily as they make it to be.

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    • Alive minato> alive itachi

      Edo minato>>Edo itachi

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    • @Killer723

      minato doesn't need to see itachi (even kakashi which isn't sensory type could fight with his eyes closed) wherever he comes cuz' minato is a sensory type ninja, has his reflexes on par with sound speed, has FTG and FTG2, knows many sealing techniques, knows many barrier techniques. simply too strong for itachi
      

      if you don't understand, i'm not bothering myself to argue with u anymore

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    • @Mr. Grave

      I understand your point. However let me clarify what I meant. This goes for @Killer723 as well.

      I agree that Itachi most probably knows of Minato and that he is famous for the use of Space-time ninjutsu. His status as the Hokage clearly means that he is an extremely powerful and intelligent shinobi as well.

      What I don't agree with is, to my understanding, that Itachi supporters claim that Itachi knows about FTG2 and FTG3, how Minato marks his kunai and other objects and can use FTG:Guiding thunder to warp away attacks, Summonings and Sage mode. It is clearly a big stretch to say Itachi knows all of this.

      If others are still gonna claim all of this is true, please provide evidence where it states specifically that Itachi knows all of this. In any case, not gonna argue this anymore, hopefully all understood what I meant.

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    • @Uzumaki1naruto

      Thats fine since am done as well , he simply doesn't need much to get you into genjtusu , and there starts downfall for Minato , but whatever i guess.

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    • @Killer723

      Would Minato's sealing jutsus work on Itachi?

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    • The point is Itachi does not need eye contact for most of his genjutsu, for example when he got Oro with it at age 13 and Oro couldn't break it. Minato has NO evidence of being 5th tier in Genjutsu like Oro is, let alone be able to break a genjutsu of Itachi's calibre. Itachi only needs ONE Genjutsu to connect and bam the fight is over.

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    • ^Yet, these non-visual jutsu you speak of were not used against Kabuto. If it were really that powerful, Itachi could of ended that fight a lot sooner.

      Ephermeral and crow clone genjutsu were used on Naruto only, not a good indication of strength in my opinion. Either way, do you think that Minato will let Itachi weave signs? Minato will try to blitz Itachi, Itachi will be then forced to use his Sharingan and shurikenjutsu.

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    • Uzumaki1naruto wrote: @Killer723 you make it sound so easy for itachi to make eye contact with someone even itachi can't see or react against to. now all your examples were like itachi could make minato to let his guard down whenever he wants, man minato didn't let his goard down for a moment angainst A.

      you realy think that after binato breaks a genjutsu he'll stop and say "what happened to me?" of course something this isn't gonna happen, as soon as he breaks bree he'll eventually do Spiralling Flash Super Round Dance Howl Style Three, something that itachi can't even think to react against, even if he somehow manages to activate his susanoo before the attack (it's ridiculous) you think he'll mintain it for long? with his levels of chakra it won't stand for too long and as soon as it vanishes it's over

      you said that he hasn't any intel on itachi, same goes for obito and he had a jutsu (kamui) which no one had ever seen then, sth that exceeds itachi's genjutsu, sth which he is invisible with and no one could thouch him before minato and minato not only hit with rasengan someone who can't be touched but also marked him before he realised that had been hit and of course he will have easy to mark even itachi

      minato is simply stronger

      THIS IS MY ANSWER (it's not yelling, just to emphasize it ^_^)

      If itachi can react to lighting,then i dont see a problem with minato.He isnt sasuke,he cant teleport to unmarked areas and thus,itachi can keep the safe distance.@NinjaOfWar,but kabuto is a sage mode user,he is better than minato at it.

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    • i wonder why people who support Itachi feel the need to use bad logic like "A and B got caught so why not C" while ignoring the fact that Minato's moveset and fighting style are completely different.

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    • Mcpowa wrote: i wonder why people who support Itachi feel the need to use bad logic like "A and B got caught so why not C" while ignoring the fact that Minato's moveset and fighting style are completely different.

      Expect,what requires to break genjutsu is knowledge and skill.He already caought orochimaru.

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    • Bad logic,since ur using the orochimaru logic can i use the Guy logic also?

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    • Not at all, show me where it says Minato is a genjutsu specialist/master or that he is skilled in it.. wait you simply won't find it. So that means a master genjutsu user like Itachi is a serious problem for him.

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    • Mcpowa wrote: Bad logic,since ur using the orochimaru logic can i use the Guy logic also?

      Dont compare orochimaru and guy.Both are completly different.

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    • THATS MY POINT

      Dont compare orochimaru to minato lol

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    • Mcpowa wrote: THATS MY POINT

      Dont compare orochimaru to minato lol

      Except,WE CAN compare them.Orochimaru had greater knowledge on genjutsu however he still got trapped.How is minato gonna break it if he gets caught?

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    • Except cuz its ITACHI The solo god HAHAHA

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    • Mcpowa wrote: Except cuz its ITACHI The solo god HAHAHA

      What is your point?Oro had greater knowledge and still could not break it.How in the world is minato gonna do the thing oro failed at?

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    • He can't answer that, so he's onto trolling. You don't know mcpowa on here well enough, but he's a smartass troll who hates Itachi and Hiruzen with a passion. He also likes to vie against anybody I support in vs threads, Nagato isn't safe from his bs either.

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    • Minato will not get caught what so hard to understand?

      u guys use a bad logic and u want me to answer hahahaha

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    • For all the preaching you're doing of "getting our facts right", you're also deliberately getting some wrong just to prove your point. Aside from Ephemeral and Izanami, Itachi cannot use genjutsu without eye contact. He's just so good at it that he can use it seamlessly, without the enemy even noticing. Like how he genjutsu'd Deidara the very moment they met and then made good on his genjutsu once Deidara tried to attack him. Also how, in the anime filler (though I'm not sure if this was in the Itachi Shinden novel), he put two ANBU under genjutsu the first time they met and then used that genjutsu once they tried to attack him. Also, Itachi did not react to lightning. At least give specifics. Itachi reacted to Sasuke guiding a lightning thunder with his hands - while the lightning thunder itself was impossible to evade, Itachi could have easily kept track of Sasuke's movements.

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    • @Ninja Of War

      Reaper death seal ?

      Sure why not.

      As for why didn't he used genjtusu on Kabuto this might answer i hope http://i7.mangapanda.com/naruto/581/naruto-3197787.jpg

      And also as i said earlier he was enhanced with senjtusu , genjtusu such as those would be useless against some one who have reached Kabuto's lvl

      what i mean on Kabuto's level is http://www.mangapanda.com/naruto/582/5

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    • Mcpowa wrote: Minato will not get caught what so hard to understand?

      u guys use a bad logic and u want me to answer hahahaha

      Prove it.Just 1 thing to do.

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    • Prove tht itachi can place minato in a genjutsu

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    • @Killer723 and @Kakashisologod

      Chapter 578, Itachi tries to use Sharigan genjutsu on Kabuto, yet it doesn't work, since Kabuto is avoiding eye contact. Itachi then switches to his MS, proceeds to look at Kabuto (Seems like he looks him in the eye) and still Kabuto is not placed under genjutsu. Only after Itachi's and Sasuke's initial scuffle with Kabuto's snakes, does Kabuto activate sage mode(seen by the darker markings on his eyes and horns).

      So, if Itachi's non-visual jutsu is as powerful as @QuakingStar says it is, why didn't Itachi use it on Kabuto then?

      P.S. Minato also has sage mode, so arguing that it didn't work on Kabuto because of sage mode is not a real argument. Kabuto was not in sage mode at that point as I have shown.

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    • @ninja of war Kabuto being immune to visual genjutsu is thanks to his unique sage mode,minato doesn't have the same snake sage mode that kabuto does.and kabuto was already in sage mode since the beggening of the battle against Sasuke and itachi.

      and even if he did had the same sage mode that Kabuto had still wouldn't make any difference since minato can only sage mode for what?5 seconds?.

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    • ^Actually no, Kabuto activated his sage mode only after the initial scuffle with Itachi and Sasuke as I indicated. Also, he only deactivated his eyes after he went into sage mode.

      Anyhow, my point is that Minato won't get caught in Itachi's visual genjutsu and since his non-visual genjutsu isn't as powerful, Minato won't have to worry about Itachi's genjutsu.

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    • First of all itachis non visual genjjutsus are not strong enough to control somebodys mind(which he needed to do vs kabuto)they are mostly used for distraction.

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    • You literally have no proof he won't get caught. You have to prove that claim. He has no means of avoiding it.

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    • @Ninja Of War

      actually , Itachi didn't use anything when he encountered Kabuto , even so Kabuto wasn't making eye contact at beginning at all due his cloak.

      Itachi did prepared signs for something , but Kabuto told him that Sasuke won't just stand there, and that he might fail. So Itachi pulled his hand down.

      Both in Manga and anime , there's no eye contact between them , even so , you have seen when Kabuto pulled his cloak over his head to preform his Sage Mode when he had to face them. You even have Sasuke commenting why he done that.

      In other words there were no direct eye contact at all between them , while in fight Minato against Obito ,i have seen at least 5 eye contact chances.

      EDIT: also Kabuto had almost all info over Itachi so it's no surprise that he didn't gave him a chance to do so.

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    • @QuakingStar

      As I said, Minato is not falling for Sharingan genjutsu. He knows about the Uchiha clan and their specialties. His quick battle style, speed and reactions has been able to outmaneuver Obito thrice, who had his MS. He's a master sensor and has refined chakra control. He also has sage mode to further augment his abilities.

      The only option for Itachi to try to catch him in genjutsu was non-visual genjutsu, or genjutsu that can't be avoided. However, as Itachi did not use it against Kabuto, it's effectiveness is highly questioned and therefore cannot be taken as a one-shot technique.

      What is your proof that Itachi can put Minato under genjutsu?

      @Killer723

      No, Itachi clearly tried to use genjutsu in the chapter I presented and Kabuto only entered sage mode after the scuffle, due to the darker markings appearing on his eyes then. Look again if you don't believe me, look at the anime episode and Kabuto's wiki page as well.

      Again, my actual point is about the non-visual genjutsu not being used. Ephermeral, crow clone and demonic shackles. These jutsu were not used before or after Kabuto went into sage mode and closed his eyes. Therefore, they cannot be referred to as one-shots.

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    • Want a proof?Look at the manga and find the guy who put orochiamru(who has more knowledge on genjutsu than minato)without even moving nor making eye contact.

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    • Kakashisologod1 wrote: Want a proof?Look at the manga and find the guy who put orochiamru(who has more knowledge on genjutsu than minato)without even moving nor making eye contact.

      I really don't want to sound like a broken record, but I'll say it again: Aside from two of his genjutsu, Itachi cannot mindrape without making eye contact with the victim. The scene you're referring to is a flashback - there's no way for us to know what happened prior to that scene. However, it is quite implied that Itachi can put someone in a genjutsu without them noticing, so chances are he already had made eye contact with Orochimar but the latter just didn't notice. How did I come to that conclusion? This scene: [[1]] note Kisame's reply It's also implied Itachi can program his jutsu for delayed activation and what not, but that's beside the point.

      Another point I wanted to raise is STOP adding feats to Itachi without them being confirmed first. It is common in Shonen for all the established rules to be thrown out of the window for a brief moment of coolness or when the plot requires it (Tite Kubo is like the worst offender). Itachi shielding himself with Susano'o right in time for the Kirin strike does not mean he can react faster than lightning. That's stupid. It's like when Tobi rescued Sasuke from Tsuchikage's jutsu without any of the people in that room being able to discern his presence. Let me just stress this one out; Tobi SHOULD NOT be able to teleport in and out that fast or without anyone noticing. We know that's not one of his feats because it took him much more time to teleport when Konan was all over his ass.

      If Zetsu or any of the bystander characters had commented on his reflexes, said something to the extent of "Oh wow, Itachi's reflexes are amazing!", then yes - I would conceit. That's because acknowledgement (or even suspicion) by another character usually means fact in Naruto terms.

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    • Well said @Mr. Grave. Care to give a rundown of the fight?

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    • He was behind itachi all the time.Its so funny,while its 70% that itachi didnt make eye contact,people will go with the possible 30% that he made eye contact before.Oh and while minato is warping susano he can make eye contact.

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    • Kakashisologod1 wrote: Want a proof?Look at the manga and find the guy who put orochiamru(who has more knowledge on genjutsu than minato)without even moving nor making eye contact.

      he made eye contact and I explained in one of my comments

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    • @Kakashisologod1, look man, I'm not saying Itachi's not a strong character. But I'm sure you can make a compelling pro-Itachi argument without getting too caught up in this whole "Itachi can use genjutsu without eye contact" biz cause it's really making us run in circles. In all of his encounters, he's seen making eye contact at LEAST once with his opponents; Kakashi, Sasuke, Naruto, Deidara, Kurenai. That flashback you're referring to shows an unfinished portion of what happened and since both Itachi and Orochimaru were already familiar with one another, we could assume they'd spent time around each other at which point Itachi could have placed him under a genjutsu. But hey, I don't even blame you for thinking that - I blame Kishimoto for not making it clear enough. It's a shame when filler episodes give us better insight on the mechanics of Itachi's eye prowess than the canon does.

      Also, yes I agree. Minato is susceptible to MS if he sits idle for too much.

      @Ninja of War - well, I know for sure that it wouldn't last as long as your usual Naruto fight. Estimated time would probably be 10 minutes AT MOST and that is assuming Itachi can live long enough to activate Susano'o. Damage would come in the form of mental and physical fatigue since both characters are renowned for their "one hit and you're dead" battle styles. Two ways Minato could deliver the finishing blow - first one, by using his amazing reflexes to get within Itachi's personal space while at the same time flicking a FTG kunai in the air (kind of similar to how he got the drop on Tobi, only a little more complex). Itachi would be able to deflect the knife since his shurikenjutsu is superb, but that way he would leave himself open to Minato's attacks. If he would decide to take Minato instead of the FTG kunai, Minato could easily teleport to that kunai and deliver the finishing blow. It's a lose-lose situation and I think that's the only way you can kill a ninja like Itachi.

      Another scenario would be if Itachi conjured his Susano'o and managed to keep it up for a long duration of time. In that case, Minato could use his Shiki Fujin, but this scenario's also very reliant on luck as it would rely on Itachi not being able to place him under a genjutsu just in time to stop Minato from forming the seals (and that technique takes a lot of seals).

      It would definitely be a very close fight, though.

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    • Itachi's hand movements and hand-seal speed are unmatched thus far, and he can also make techs with one handed seals. His bodily speed is enough to keep up with KCM Naruto in a taijutsu scuffle and that was while he was a weaker incarnation of himself(edo tensei) He doesn't need much time at all to devise strategies, find weaknesses, and exploit them. He instantly figured out how the Rinnegan has linked vision with all of its summons and etc and he instantly used his master shuriken/kunai jutsu abilities and speed to blind the Rinnegan Summons. He also figured out the easiest and best way to stop chibaku tensei and cleverly used the dust from the explosion to instantly use Susanoo and sword of totsuka seal controlled Edo Nagato. He also held back as to not kill Sage Mode Kabuto, while at different points saving EMS Sasuke, and working his way towards his two goals... Save Kabuto and release Edo Tensei and he did both. Kabuto himself said compared to the other Edo Tensei including white haired crippled Edo Nagato(not including Rinnegan and Wood Release Edo Madara of course) Itachi was on a different level. That statement did not leave out ANY of the other Edo including the past Kage Edo's Kabuto summoned. Minato's performance in the war was kind of lackluster, he did show better foot speed than Hashi, Tobi, Old Hiruzen, Sasuke and Orochimaru and I liked that they at least did that for Minato so he wasn't just shown doing the same shit as before(Nine Tails attack flashback, and Kakashi Gaiden) but outside of his FTG, Kurama usage and that one foot speed feat.. he hasn't done much to merit me thinking he could defeat a Shinobi like Itachi. Itachi isn't rash and angry like 4th Raikage, he isn't some fodder like in Kakashi Gaiden, he is not a 14 year old Obito, and he has better Genjutsu and is faster than Pre-TTJ Obito. If this was EMS Sasuke.. I give Minato the win no doubt. But a no disease, full eyesight and health MS Itachi is much different.

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    • @QuakingStar i can understand that you love Itachi , but don't you think that maybe sometimes you overdo it. I mean when i read this , its like Itachi is unbeatable.

      Like no wonder other people use to troll over Itachi.

      But yes , i agree with you that Itachi can win this.

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    • what difference does it makes if itachi's hand movements are unmatched so far?there is shinobies in the series that are able to use jutsus without any hand moviment at all.

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    • Killer723 wrote: @QuakingStar i can understand that you love Itachi , but don't you think that maybe sometimes you overdo it. I mean when i read this , its like Itachi is unbeatable.

      Like no wonder other people use to troll over Itachi.

      But yes , i agree with you that Itachi can win this.

      He just said that EDO madara is on a other lvl compared to itachi...

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    • What one handed seals did Itachi use?

      Anyways, Minato is not going to allow Itachi to weave signs, due to his battle style. The only way Itachi can weave signs effectively, is while in his Susanoo. Even then Minato has a few options, warp Susanoo away or fight Susanoo with Gamabunta. Could the 4 symbols/8 trigrams seal be used on Susanoo?

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    • Well, I think either side can agree that hand seals are gonna be useless in this fight. If either stop to weave signs, they might as well slash their own throats.

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    • Edo itachi is top 5 in edo ranks

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    • Ninja Of War wrote: What one handed seals did Itachi use?

      Anyways, Minato is not going to allow Itachi to weave signs, due to his battle style. The only way Itachi can weave signs effectively, is while in his Susanoo. Even then Minato has a few options, warp Susanoo away or fight Susanoo with Gamabunta. Could the 4 symbols/8 trigrams seal be used on Susanoo?

      Can itachi make eye contact while he is warping susano?

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    • What if Itachi starts with Susanoo, ready with Yata Mirror, and coats his Susanoo with Amaterasu flames (just like Sasuke did vs five kage)?

      Will Minato found a way to attack him?

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    • ^I'd say highly unlikely. Only because to warp away Susanoo, Minato has to be relatively close to it and have his special kunai on hand or make physical contact with it. This can be done even from behind or on the sides of Susanoo, avoiding Itachi's gaze. FTG:Guiding Thunder is instant.

      @Sen'ei Jashu

      YM can only guard in one direction and Itachi does not have blaze release, meaning he can't manipulate Amaterasu like Sasuke.

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    • Ninja Of War wrote: ^I'd say highly unlikely. Only because to warp away Susanoo, Minato has to be relatively close to it and have his special kunai on hand or make physical contact with it. This can be done even from behind or on the sides of Susanoo, avoiding Itachi's gaze. FTG:Guiding Thunder is instant.

      @Sen'ei Jashu

      YM can only guard in one direction and Itachi does not have blaze release, meaning he can't manipulate Amaterasu like Sasuke.

      Shoot, i forgot Itachi can't shape the flame. If only he has the ability, he will be (almost) untouchable. I mean Yata Mirror to guard his front, while amaterasu guard his back lol. Otherwise, Minato will somehow find a way to land a blow on him.

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    • Ninja Of War wrote: ^I'd say highly unlikely. Only because to warp away Susanoo, Minato has to be relatively close to it and have his special kunai on hand or make physical contact with it. This can be done even from behind or on the sides of Susanoo, avoiding Itachi's gaze. FTG:Guiding Thunder is instant.

      @Sen'ei Jashu

      YM can only guard in one direction and Itachi does not have blaze release, meaning he can't manipulate Amaterasu like Sasuke.

      Yeah,but that brings me back to my first point.Itachi can keep the distance between marked kunais.

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    • how shurikens?

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    • Mcpowa wrote: how shurikens?

      He can read minatos movments and where he is gonna throw them.And yeah his shurikenjutsu cant compare to minatos 10 clones+himself throwing shurikens.

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    • how can he can read a movement if minato aint close

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    • I'd say probably Minato due to his arsenal, speed, and tactical prowess. Add in the fact he usually summons toads to assist him and would have access to Perfect Sage Mode, Itachi would probably lose this fight. Not easily at all, but I believe Minato would overwhelm him eventually as his powers drain him.

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    • @Kakashisologod1

      Don't know what you're implying with 10 Minato clones, but Itachi wouldn't be able to deal with that. Ok, so Itachi could deflect Minato's kunai from a distance while his Susanoo is up. However, this presents several problems.

      1) Itachi with his Susanoo up and trying to attack long range isn't gonna hit Minato, which will in turn waste his stamina and chakra.

      2) Can Itachi's shuriken and kunai even pass through Susanoo?

      3) Even if Itachi can deflect Minato's kunai with shuriken, Minato can use FTG2 to teleport to his kunai(mid-flight) before or after they are deflected to close the distance.

      4) Minato warped away Kurama's TBB from a significant distance, the Ten-tails TBB too, meaning he only needs to be relatively close.

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    • I actually wonder myself too,but shouldnt user be able to let firendly abilitys pass through?Yeah but Kuramas TBB is projectile,not stationary target like susano.@Tyson he does not have perfect sage mode.

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    • @Ninja of War - actually, I'm pretty sure Mangekyou users can use jutsu and ninja tools while inside the Susanoo.

      @Kakashisologod1 - he does have Perfect Sage Mode. He just is not good at using it, by his own admission.

      Itachi conjuring Susanoo will only delay the outcome of this battle. That's because Itachi has low chakra reserves and the Susanoo consumes a lot of chakra. Even with Itachi's superb chakra control, I don't think he can maintain it for more than a few minutes. Also, most of Itachi's eye techniques which are gonna be useful in this battle drain a lot of chakra too. On the other hand, from what we've seen of Minato he does not have this problem with chakra reserves. His FTG seems to barely consume any chakra as we've seen him use it NUMEROUS times during the Nine Tails attack on Konoha, of course not mentioning his more extreme variants like Guiding Thunder and that FTG feat in which he had to gather enough chakra to teleport goddamn Kyuubi. Aside from that, he used a contract seal, Rasengan, summoned a toad and STILL had enough chakra to summon the Shinigami. That's stamina, alright. So if Itachi activates Susanoo, all he has to do is avoid dying until it wears off.

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    • Kurenai's knowledge of Genjutsu is on Itachi's level. But since he is a Sharingan master he is above her. Also the Databook numbers are tiers, not levels. Kurenai and Itachi, along with Orochimaru are on the 5th tier in Genjutsu but everyone knows Itachi is better than they are.

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    • QuakingStar wrote: Kurenai's knowledge of Genjutsu is on Itachi's level. But since he is a Sharingan master he is above her. Also the Databook numbers are tiers, not levels. Kurenai and Itachi, along with Orochimaru are on the 5th tier in Genjutsu but everyone knows Itachi is better than they are.

      Well ofc he is,he is a sharingan master.

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    • Just had a thought, Minato can use a shadow clone to make contact with Susanoo and warp it away. It should be also possible to warp away the TB and YM, since FTG is not regarded as an attack on its own. Would warping Itachi's Susanoo away result in the removal of the TB and YM as well?

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    • Ninja Of War wrote: Just had a thought, Minato can use a shadow clone to make contact with Susanoo and warp it away. It should be also possible to warp away the TB and YM, since FTG is not regarded as an attack on its own. Would warping Itachi's Susanoo away result in the removal of the TB and YM as well?

      Are they made out of chakra?And if itachi reactivates susano,would YM and TB be too?Also i dont think a shadow clone can warp away something like susano as its only 50% of the user.

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    • Kakashisologod1 wrote: Also i dont think a shadow clone can warp away something like susano as its only 50% of the user.

      We've seen that it can warp away anything his chakra touches. I don't see why he couldn't warp away Susanoo.

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    • @Kakashisologod1

      Tobirama's shadow clone was able to warp away a TSB. It stands to reason Minato could do the same or better. If Susanoo is warped away Itachi will definitely lose a lot of chakra, but would he able to reform it before Minato can strike him?

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    • Ninja Of War wrote: @Kakashisologod1

      Tobirama's shadow clone was able to warp away a TSB. It stands to reason Minato could do the same or better. If Susanoo is warped away Itachi will definitely lose a lot of chakra, but would he able to reform it before Minato can strike him?

      But is TSB pure chakra?

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    • ^Yes

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    • Ninja Of War wrote: ^Yes

      Oh then,he can warp it away.its up to itachi if he can react to minato.Without FTG i think he can.With it?Minato wins 11/10 if he can get his combo.If not its 70/30 for itachi.

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    • Yes, Itachi can form Susanoo faster than real lightning strikes.

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    • ftg is (literally) infinitely faster than real lighting (which he saw coming)

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    • He was blind, he didn't see shit coming, he only heard the sky crackling and looked up. Stop using that made up bs.

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    • lol made up bs. if he was totally blind, how did he know where sasuke was (after lighting attack, and post lightning attack)? and just cuz there was lightning, a person doesn't look up during a battle. and even if he was blind, anybody could've felt the concentration of chakra in the sky. its not bs. ur just not smart enough to get it. lol u remind of this guy that I saw today. he put itachi as the 3rd strongest character in the whole show (yes, above madara, Naruto, hamura, hago, sasuke, and those others). please don't be like him. or don't fully became him, cuz it really looks like u are man. get a clue.

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    • QuakingStar wrote: Yes, Itachi can form Susanoo faster than real lightning strikes.

      No, he can't. He wasn't completely blind. His MS was still active; it seems that when a Sharingan goes blind, it becomes white.

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    • His vision was damn near blind, the manga panels even showed you his vision. He could not see Sasuke from that distance and he only looked up because of sudden light. I'm much smarter than you, proven in other threads. Your grammar and contextual ability is sad. Insult me again Lorenzo and we will really have a problem kid.

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    • @QuakingStar

      I'm sorry, but Itachi being able to react to Kirin in less than 1/1000th of a second to conjure up Susanoo was definitely plot.

      Now I'm going to need you and @Lorenzo to simmer down because we don't need your bickering escalating any further.

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    • @rachin, pretty sure ive never asked this of u, bout anybody, but could u please keep quaking in check? cuz im trying here, but he says shit like him being smarter, and me being stupid cuz of my grammar (its cuz I right fast af), and that were gonna have problems. like, isn't that a threat? isn't he the one insulting me? @quaking and who are u to threaten me? and we're gonna have a problem? really? see, why don't u tell me and some mods bout what ur gonna? huh? im waiting. ur not man enough (that is, if ur man at all.... cuz I really don't know ur gender so...).

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    • @QuakingStar Yeah, as @Rachin123 said, Itachi being able to conjure Susanoo right before the Kirin strike is plot. By that same logic, we could say that Sasuke's speed is off the charts if we take into account him summoning Manda, putting him under a genjutsu and getting into his mouth all before Deidara's explosion could hit him. Asides from that one instance, we've never seen Sharingan Sasuke do something even remotely close to that.

      Or the aforementioned example I gave about Tobi rescuing Sasuke from being pulverized by Tsuchikage's jutsu even though no one could see him come and go. No swirl, no sound effects and Tobi's teleportation speed got awfully fast for a second even though we know based on his Konan fight that it takes much longer than what we saw there.

      Hell, I could find you an instance of plot in almost every Akatsuki fight. Like how Naruto and his clones suddenly gained the power to teleport without a seasoned shinobi like Kakuzu noticing him.

      As a side-note, using words like "I'm smarter than you" or "we're gonna have problems kid" in an internet discussion REALLY makes your neckbeard pop. This is a debate - we are all looking at the same facts and coming to different conclusions. There's really no reason to insult someone just because they have a different viewpoint than yours.

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    • thanks grave.

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    • QuakingStar wrote: His vision was damn near blind, the manga panels even showed you his vision.

      There were plenty of other signals Itachi could react to, like a giant lightning dragon in the sky, or Sasuke shouting "DIE".

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    • If that was the case sasuke wouldev had saw susano @Thekillman.But honestly,we can argue wether it was plot or not.For sasuke we know that 10000% as he was out of chakra.

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    • Once again @Mr. Grave is the voice of reason.

      I agree that Itachi would use Susanoo in this fight, but only towards the end. Itachi's Susanoo is not gonna be able to hit Minato though. Minato can just dodge of all it's attacks and even warp it away. The only time Itachi could strike is the counter-attack after Susanoo is warped.

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    • even Sasuke said "All i have to do is guide it straight to ur skull" then he raises the hand.

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    • Ninja Of War wrote: Once again @Mr. Grave is the voice of reason.

      I agree that Itachi would use Susanoo in this fight, but only towards the end. Itachi's Susanoo is not gonna be able to hit Minato though. Minato can just dodge of all it's attacks and even warp it away. The only time Itachi could strike is the counter-attack after Susanoo is warped.

      Thats the thing though,he does not have to hit minato directly.Explosion from YH is enough+shockwave from susano blades.

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    • Kakashisologod1 wrote: If that was the case sasuke wouldev had saw susano @Thekillman.But honestly, we can argue wether it was plot or not.For sasuke we know that 10000% as he was out of chakra.

      First off, Sasuke had a giant glowing lightning dragon above him followed by an intense flash of light. Since he didn't have his Sharingan active, he wouldn't have noticed the faint glow of say a Ribcage Susanoo in that moment, especially if Itachi timed it (or reacted to it) relatively late. Itachi doesn't need to form a susanoo in a literal microsecond to block the attack, nor for sasuke to not notice it.

      Secondly, sasuke being out of chakra versus Deidara wasn't explicitly confirmed. Sasuke deactivated his Sharingan presumably to conserve chakra or because he was being cocky. It's Deidara that speculated he was out, even though his summoning of Manda clearly shows Sasuke wasn't.

      Kakashisologod1 wrote: Thats the thing though,he does not have to hit minato directly.Explosion from YH is enough+shockwave from susano blades.

      That assumes he can get those attacks anywhere near Minato, even though we've seen Minato fight some of the fastest people in the world and come out on top. Itachi's inability to hit Minato or spam his MS powers would be lethal for Itachi.

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    • With respect to Itachi, I would prefer Minato over itachi. Here are the comparison of itachi's power & minato's power-

      1. Minato has his modified flying raijin djutsu (i wrote modified because tobirama was the creator of this djutsu but minato took it into higher level) Although Itachi has His crow clone & gaindjutsu to dodge that but minato is far more creative & he is a hokage level shinobi. Battle against obito was the prove that how fast could he think & make moves. so casting gendjutsu will be very difficult against minato.

      2. He has sage mode & power of kurama. Itachi has the power of izunagi & izunami (although that can cause his one eye). So I think He will use his half body susano.

      3. Rasengan vs amataratsu.. well itachi had a clear advantage in this as fire is superior to wind

      4. I think the main cause of itachi's defeat will be the lack of chakra he posses comparing to minato. Minato also has various sealing djutsu under his sleeves.

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    • @Thekillman

      That's a reach. Even if you were to believe Sasuke had enough chakra to summon Manda despite him falling down, how do you explain him being able to summon Manda, place him in a genjutsu, climb inside and teleport just as the explosion happened. Yea I don't think so. It was plot.

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    • Kakashisologod1 wrote:

      Thats the thing though,he does not have to hit minato directly.Explosion from YH is enough+shockwave from susano blades.

      Minato can just use FTG to dodge all of Susanoo's attacks. A shock wave is not gonna hit someone like Minato who can pop up all over the battle field. YM can be warped too.

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    • Shah-rinnegan wrote: With respect to Itachi, I would prefer Minato over itachi. Here are the comparison of itachi's power & minato's power-

      1. Minato has his modified flying raijin djutsu (i wrote modified because tobirama was the creator of this djutsu but minato took it into higher level) Although Itachi has His crow clone & gaindjutsu to dodge that but minato is far more creative & he is a hokage level shinobi. Battle against obito was the prove that how fast could he think & make moves. so casting gendjutsu will be very difficult against minato.

      2. He has sage mode & power of kurama. Itachi has the power of izunagi & izunami (although that can cause his one eye). So I think He will use his half body susano.

      3. Rasengan vs amataratsu.. well itachi had a clear advantage in this as fire is superior to wind

      4. I think the main cause of itachi's defeat will be the lack of chakra he posses comparing to minato. Minato also has various sealing djutsu under his sleeves.

      This is alive Minato, so he doesn't have Kurama, and by his own admission, he sucks at SM and can only hold it for a very short time. Also,the original rasengan has nothing to do wind release.Minato however doesn't have to worry about amaterasu since he can just counter it with speed, just like the raikage did. Regardless, i would give this battle to Minato. I don't see him falling for one of Itachi's genjutsus, or at least this probably won't be a decisive factor. Also, i think Itachi would be forced to use his MS abilities quite soon in the battle, since Minato would just be too much for him with his speed and stamina, so rather sooner, itachi would be forced to use Susanoo and amaterasu. Also, we need to take in consideration the fact that, even if Itachi is "healthy", he would still get weakened by using MS.It's not like he can use it without drawbacks.If he goes for instance in Susanoo, it's not like he could keep it forever. Totsuka blade would most likely not hit, and even if Minato won't probably be able to break the Susanoo, Itachi would get weakened every second, until he won't be able to keep the Susanoo anymore.I can only see Itachi winning if he land Tsukuyomi.

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    • Shah-rinnegan wrote: With respect to Itachi, I would prefer Minato over itachi. Here are the comparison of itachi's power & minato's power-

      1. Minato has his modified flying raijin djutsu (i wrote modified because tobirama was the creator of this djutsu but minato took it into higher level) Although Itachi has His crow clone & gaindjutsu to dodge that but minato is far more creative & he is a hokage level shinobi. Battle against obito was the prove that how fast could he think & make moves. so casting gendjutsu will be very difficult against minato.

      2. He has sage mode & power of kurama. Itachi has the power of izunagi & izunami (although that can cause his one eye). So I think He will use his half body susano.

      3. Rasengan vs amataratsu.. well itachi had a clear advantage in this as fire is superior to wind

      4. I think the main cause of itachi's defeat will be the lack of chakra he posses comparing to minato. Minato also has various sealing djutsu under his sleeves.

      Few corrections, though. Hokage Minato did not have Kurama while alive. He only got it after he sealed half of it on himself and died protecting Naruto. Also, it was never said Itachi could use Izanagi even though it would make sense since the technique doesn't seem as complex to perform (since even a non-Uchiha like Danzo could do it). Izanami, on the other hand, would not work on Minato since he has no complexes about himself at this point in time (though I do see how it could work against Edo Minato).

      As for your argument, I don't think there will be a clash between Rasengan and Amaterasu simply based on how the two techniques are cast. And honestly, I think Amaterasu would be the least of Minato's problems as it seems to be the only one of Itachi's mangekyou sharingan jutsu which can be anticipated easily.

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    • I have a question: did itachi use the susanoo's natural durability, or did he use the yata mirror? cuz if it was the mirror, wouldn't the explosion be bigger? (that is, say the explosion was even smaller than the one we say, and the destruction of the building was part of the mirrors reflection aka normal kirin+ yata's reflection= explosion we saw, or basic kirin caused that big explosion). which one is it?

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    • Rachin123 wrote: @Thekillman

      That's a reach. Even if you were to believe Sasuke had enough chakra to summon Manda despite him falling down, how do you explain him being able to summon Manda, place him in a genjutsu, climb inside and teleport just as the explosion happened. Yea I don't think so. It was plot.

      That wasn't my point. My point is that the "out of chakra" thing is fan interpretation.

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    • Lorenzo.r.1st wrote: I have a question: did itachi use the susanoo's natural durability, or did he use the yata mirror? cuz if it was the mirror, wouldn't the explosion be bigger? (that is, say the explosion was even smaller than the one we say, and the destruction of the building was part of the mirrors reflection aka normal kirin+ yata's reflection= explosion we saw, or basic kirin caused that big explosion). which one is it?

      I think he used its natural durability considering he had to remake it from scratch afterwards.

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    • oh, ok. thanks.

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    • Thekillman wrote:

      Rachin123 wrote: @Thekillman

      That's a reach. Even if you were to believe Sasuke had enough chakra to summon Manda despite him falling down, how do you explain him being able to summon Manda, place him in a genjutsu, climb inside and teleport just as the explosion happened. Yea I don't think so. It was plot.

      That wasn't my point. My point is that the "out of chakra" thing is fan interpretation.

      Didnt sasuke himself said that?

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    • yeah. both when fighting deidara and itachi.

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    • Just to expand on this some more: I find it hard to believe that during the entire exchange prior to the strike, Itachi just stood there and did nothing. He had one MS active during the entire thing as Kirin formed, he saw the dragon and he likely saw Sasuke's hand. There was lightning in it, he moved his hand up to call Kirin and moved it down to guide the lightning. Even with really bad eyesight Itachi would've been able to see the color of the lightning (Both in real or chakra-vision) and the motion going up and down. His eyes didn't have the milkyness in it that we saw Itachi had when he had used Susanoo. Plus it was preceded by "disappear with the Thunder" which gave away the timing anyway.

      Kakashisologod1 wrote: Didnt sasuke himself said that?

      Nope. At no point in the manga does sasuke himself say or otherwise imply that he's out of chakra. He just deactivates his Sharingan. At which Deidara says he understimated him and blows himself up.

      TysonHurricane wrote: I think he used its natural durability considering he had to remake it from scratch afterwards.

      Yea considering some of the stuff that a simple Ribcage tanked, i don't see why he'd have to form a full Susanoo to block it.


      EDIT: I just realized the irony of Susanoo being revealed after a flash of lightning.

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    • Another thought. The YM and TB are not chakra, therefore they can be marked with a FTG seal. Minato could use a clone as bait to tank the TB, meanwhile marking it and warping it away strategically.

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    • Ninja Of War wrote: Another thought. The YM and TB are not chakra, therefore they can be marked with a FTG seal. Minato could use a clone as bait to tank the TB, meanwhile marking it and warping it away strategically.

      I don't think it was ever confirmed whether they are or are not chakra. What chakra exactly is is complicated, since we've seen it act as a body, a soul, DNA, none of the previous and all of the previous.

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    • It's when you get into these kind of discussions that you notice how shoddy the writing is in Naruto. We get introduced to a lot of cool, interesting concepts which are not developed properly leading to a lot of confusion. Don't get me wrong; it's fun to get involved in a debate, but when people begin associating non-existing feats to certain characters then it becomes a problem. And while I believe there's no way for a focused, battle-ready Minato to be caught under Itachi's genjutsu, a possible argument can be made for the opposite since we never got to properly see how Itachi's sharingan works. If it was Sasuke for example, I'd know that to be untrue since Sasuke's eye actually spun and worked like a, you know, normal (Mangekyo)Sharingan. There was mostly no indication when it happened with Itachi (or usually the eye would begin spinning AFTER he's caught someone under a genjutsu) so there's no way to accurately calculate the speed in which he can work his illusion techniques.

      I've seen Minato's speed and I FIRMLY believe that there's no way Itachi's genjutsu activation time can match that, but if it was made as an argument there would be no way for me to reply to it since there's no clear evidence for me to base that counter-argument.

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    • Mr. Grave wrote: It's when you get into these kind of discussions that you notice how shoddy the writing is in Naruto.

      It's mostly fine. There's no definitive need to explain everything all the time (since it would just bog up the story with endless explanations), and most of the time we can make fairly proper theories on how things work. Most common questions are from the 4th war phase, at which Kishimoto clearly tried to fit in most of his ideas in his allotted time, but otherwise he did a fine enough job. Rereading the manga often leaves me wanting to read more and i rarely feel that the pacing is really off.

      Things like speed and rankings are a hairy subject anyway (if you want to write yourself in a corner, try to be 100% accurate with everything all the time - it doesn't work and it's not worth it).

      But we do have someone who was quite fast (itachi) and someone repeatedly stated to be the fastest in the world (Minato), so i think it's clear that Minato would be very unlikely to get caught in any type of genjutsu. There wasn't one that Itachi could fire at Kabuto without his MS, and with his MS couldn't fire Amaterasu accurate enough to get him. Hell CS Sasuke could almost outrun his Amaterasu casting. Itachi isn't gonna cast Tsukuyome orders of magnitude faster than that. Between Minato's respectable chakra levels, speed and maneuverability and Itachi's inability to really make anything stick to him, it's simply heavily in Minato's favor.

      Itachi can't keep Susanoo up forever, yet Minato has been seen teleporting lots of times with no sign of fatigue, even after teleporting massive objects. It's simply in Minato's favor. Even when the Raikage figured out Minato's Jutsu, Minato was still a step ahead. It was only because Bee did understand Minato's words (and A didn't) that he could predict the next attack, because he pretty much blatantly spelled out his next attack.

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    • @Thekillman

      Care to give a rundown of the fight?

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    • @Thekillman

      I think the issues with the Sharingan began much earlier than the 4th Shinobi World War, though. It was at first supposed to be a dojutsu on par with the Byakugan and then as the series progressed, more and more abilities got added to the dojutsu's repertoire and at points, some versions of Sharingan just blatantly began to disregard the rules that Kishimoto had established.

      I'm not asking for a wall of text that's supposed to provide exposition for everything related to the Sharingan (we get enough of those as it is), but really how much space would a simple clarification regarding Itachi's sharingan would take? In the anime's Itachi Shinden filler episode, we get to see Itachi use the sort of delayed activation that he used against Deidara when he kills two ANBU shinobi sent by Danzo. What's different about this case is that in the filler, Itachi actually marks them with the genjutsu a few days prior to that moment. If Kishimoto had actually done something like that in the canon, maybe we wouldn't have had fans incorrectly assume that Itachi can use genjutsu without making eye contact.

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    • Ninja Of War wrote: @Thekillman Care to give a rundown of the fight?

      A mind-numbingly boring cat-and-mouse game. Hell if they have better things to do they're better off just vowing to forbid jutsu and using nothing more than a kunai and Taijutsu, it would be faster that way. If we knew Minato to have some easy Susanoo-destroying jutsu (e.g a really powerful Rasengan or some other jutsu) it would be easier.

      Minato would be able to dodge anything Itachi throws at him. We don't really know enough of Minato's abilities to assess his ability to destroy Susanoo (which is what mostly makes this fight problematic), but with sealing or a Gamabunta he could probably destroy it. The thing is that lingering in Itachi's reach for too long would be deadly, so i am wondering to what degree Minato can really stick it to Itachi.

      In the end though, itachi is far more limited (perhaps 2-3 uses of each MS power or max 5-10 minutes of Susanoo) in his use of powerful jutsu than Minato, and so Minato could probe his defenses for hours if need be until he can Rasengan Itachi's bare skin.

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    • Minato and Itachi are two powerful characters and it's quite interesting to think of them taking each other on. It's pretty clear that Minato has the advantage so the odds are 6.5/10 to Minato and 3.5/10 to Itachi. Guess this thread is done.

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    • Just some pointers here: Number one: Itachi reacting to Kirin and putting up Susanoo wasn't plot but rather well foreseen move by itachi. He clearly Was able to read Chakra development in Sasuke(especially For directing) as well as deduce from Cumulus clouds (a classification given By the Zetsu Duo) That it was lightning style So their is a chance Itachi used Susanoo in Anticipation of the attack.
      Number Two: Sasuke using Reverse Summoning with Manda To Escape Deidara's Explosion was contingency against Itachi, Since plan was well known To Suigetsu. Though Author could have explained it better.
      Number three: I think we are forgetting about Itachi's Exploding Shadow clones That two could be used To catch Minato off guard.
      Number Four: I think Itachi , Considering all factors should be at significant disadvantage against Minato. I would too give it To Minato..

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    • Itachi dodged kirin as this is a lightning dragon which is guided by sasuke. If its guided, it will make sure it target is eradicated , still how come itachi survived and there is no indication of susanoo being used? The only explanation is , even the lightning dragon which had eyes , couldnt hit itachi as he was too fast. Also when struck him, only one eye was open....we need 2 eyes to use susanoo. Even obito was scared of itachi and he fought minato without much fear. He even stated"itachi is dead, now nothing stands in my way in attacking leaf village". Itachi will easily beat minato with just sharingan. Minato doesnt have an answer to even the most common genjutsu and itachi just needs a glance to use it. Minato cannot evade amaterasu , even if he evades the heat of amaterasu is hotter than the sun so it will char minato even if he escapes 10 miles from the battlefield. Im talking about no plot armour based on DB facts.minato cannot even place his mark on itachi , he is faster than minato. Ftg is summoning jutsu and this jutsu made minato the fastest , not base speed. Shisui is faster than minato and shisui himself stated itachi will surpass him. No one in the series has been proven wrong when that person says that some other individual will surpass him/her.

      Itachi defeats minato with speed alone together with shurikens which never miss thier target. It has been stated that itachi never got fame or honour for his immense skill and power like minato or shisui who participated in the war. So itachi clearly wins this fight. Amaterasu solo's.

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    • Hungry Ghost realm wrote: Itachi dodged kirin as this is a lightning dragon which is guided by sasuke. If its guided, it will make sure it target is eradicated , still how come itachi survived and there is no indication of susanoo being used? The only explanation is , even the lightning dragon which had eyes , couldnt hit itachi as he was too fast. Also when struck him, only one eye was open....we need 2 eyes to use susanoo. Even obito was scared of itachi and he fought minato without much fear. He even stated"itachi is dead, now nothing stands in my way in attacking leaf village". Itachi will easily beat minato with just sharingan. Minato doesnt have an answer to even the most common genjutsu and itachi just needs a glance to use it. Minato cannot evade amaterasu , even if he evades the heat of amaterasu is hotter than the sun so it will char minato even if he escapes 10 miles from the battlefield. Im talking about no plot armour based on DB facts.minato cannot even place his mark on itachi , he is faster than minato. Ftg is summoning jutsu and this jutsu made minato the fastest , not base speed. Shisui is faster than minato and shisui himself stated itachi will surpass him. No one in the series has been proven wrong when that person says that some other individual will surpass him/her.

      Itachi defeats minato with speed alone together with shurikens which never miss thier target. It has been stated that itachi never got fame or honour for his immense skill and power like minato or shisui who participated in the war. So itachi clearly wins this fight. Amaterasu solo's.

      Itachi literally said he would have died from that attack if it wasn't for Susanoo.

      Madara has proven that as long as you have already awakened Susanoo before hand, no eyes are required for Susanoo.

      Obito fought Minato without much fear and was still defeated without so much as landing a hit on Minato.

      It's already been stated that those with sharp minds can see through Genjutsu easier. Minato would not have gotten to where he was without at least knowledge of how to dispel Genjutsu. Also, he moves so fast that eye contact with him is almost impossible if he doesn't want it.

      If your theory with Amaterasu were the case, Sasuke would be dead, Killer B would be dead, random samurai would be dead, Gaara would be dead, and Madara would be dead.

      Itachi is not faster than Minato. Minato's raw speed has already been established when he rescued Naruto as a baby and Kakashi as a child. He hadn't marked either of them.

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    • Coughs itachi blocked kirin,he did not dodge it coughs.

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    • AsianReaper wrote:

      Hungry Ghost realm wrote: Itachi dodged kirin as this is a lightning dragon which is guided by sasuke. If its guided, it will make sure it target is eradicated , still how come itachi survived and there is no indication of susanoo being used? The only explanation is , even the lightning dragon which had eyes , couldnt hit itachi as he was too fast. Also when struck him, only one eye was open....we need 2 eyes to use susanoo. Even obito was scared of itachi and he fought minato without much fear. He even stated"itachi is dead, now nothing stands in my way in attacking leaf village". Itachi will easily beat minato with just sharingan. Minato doesnt have an answer to even the most common genjutsu and itachi just needs a glance to use it. Minato cannot evade amaterasu , even if he evades the heat of amaterasu is hotter than the sun so it will char minato even if he escapes 10 miles from the battlefield. Im talking about no plot armour based on DB facts.minato cannot even place his mark on itachi , he is faster than minato. Ftg is summoning jutsu and this jutsu made minato the fastest , not base speed. Shisui is faster than minato and shisui himself stated itachi will surpass him. No one in the series has been proven wrong when that person says that some other individual will surpass him/her.

      Itachi defeats minato with speed alone together with shurikens which never miss thier target. It has been stated that itachi never got fame or honour for his immense skill and power like minato or shisui who participated in the war. So itachi clearly wins this fight. Amaterasu solo's.

      Itachi literally said he would have died from that attack if it wasn't for Susanoo.

      Madara has proven that as long as you have already awakened Susanoo before hand, no eyes are required for Susanoo.

      Obito fought Minato without much fear and was still defeated without so much as landing a hit on Minato.

      It's already been stated that those with sharp minds can see through Genjutsu easier. Minato would not have gotten to where he was without at least knowledge of how to dispel Genjutsu. Also, he moves so fast that eye contact with him is almost impossible if he doesn't want it.

      If your theory with Amaterasu were the case, Sasuke would be dead, Killer B would be dead, random samurai would be dead, Gaara would be dead, and Madara would be dead.

      Itachi is not faster than Minato. Minato's raw speed has already been established when he rescued Naruto as a baby and Kakashi as a child. He hadn't marked either of them.

      Yeah they would all be dead.This fight is real fight we are talking about. The director is willing to skip the rules of a jutsu if it will benefit the plot. Amaterasu will solo based on manga fact and db facts alone. Itachi dodged it bcuz obito stated clearly that itachi was lying during the entire fight. Susanoo is a big humanoid structure, if itachi pulls that out, atleast sasuke's sharingan wouldve seen it. Or zetsu wouldve sensed it. Science tells that only someone who can is faster than light will be invisible to the naked eye. Because even light-speed leaves after-images. Kakashi with sharingan couldnt evennsee an afterimage of itachi which means itachi truly is light-speed. The databooks says"Sasuke's lightning shuriken is light-speed" and itachi easily dodged it. Itachi also had only one eye opened when kirin struck him meaning he couldnt have activated susanoo. Even the raikage left afterimages when he dodged amaterasu which is clearly a plotarmour as amaterasu is literally light-speed and one has to be faster than light to avoid amaterasu. Raikage couldnt even evade chidori which is near light speed as the jutsu was prohibited by minato bcuz the user wont even be able to see thier opponents movements bcuz they will be so fast. Even kakashi could keep up with minaro's base speed, minato was forced to use ftg when kakashi was preparing chidori amd kakashi couldnt do anything against itachi which tells itachi really is faster than light.

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    • Lorenzo.r.1st wrote: @rachin, pretty sure ive never asked this of u, bout anybody, but could u please keep quaking in check? cuz im trying here, but he says shit like him being smarter, and me being stupid cuz of my grammar (its cuz I right fast af), and that were gonna have problems. like, isn't that a threat? isn't he the one insulting me? @quaking and who are u to threaten me? and we're gonna have a problem? really? see, why don't u tell me and some mods bout what ur gonna? huh? im waiting. ur not man enough (that is, if ur man at all.... cuz I really don't know ur gender so...).

      Lmao why you so triggered dude?Cant you give your argument without being rude? actually itachi dodged lightning itself cuz the databook states that sasuke's shuriken is lightning-fast and he dodged it, so why not kirin? Zetsu never sensed chakra formation and obito stated itachi was lying the entire time.... He even said "madara killed izuna for MS" when clearly tobirama did that act. And why exactly is obito afraid of itachi?Bcuz his space-time phasing is light-speed and minato's ftg is light-speed so both jutsu is equally countered. Itachi is above light-speed otherwise he wouldnt be a problem for obito. Kirin is as fast as light , no one can can activate susanoo that fast and itachi didnt have any chakra to do it. The only explanation is that he was in fact lying and he clearly dodged light itself.

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    • HAHAHAHHA

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    • Mcpowa wrote: HAHAHAHHA

      Sasuke couldnt see and zetsu couldnt sense any chakra. That means there was no susanoo formed. Itachi dodged it. Shisui's words are more than enough proof, when minato says"naruto is gonna surpass him" , can you say he will not? And itachi has surpassed shusui in genjutsu as it is stated by zetsu that itachi has the most powerful genjutsu and the most powerful ninjutsu, so why not faster than shisui if he had surpassed him in all other areas? The words of the director are the words of the characters.There is no reason other than that to believe why obito only ordered pain to attack leaf village after itachi was dead. He even admitted he couldnt have attacked leaf if itachi was not dead.I can link you the chapter if you want.

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    • poor itachi always bh minato tht dude cant catch a break

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    • Madara uses susano while blind.You never heard of DB having errors?I will give you one.It says kakashis speed is 4.5(near perfect),while hidans is 3.But even with this stats and kakashi having sharingan he didnt stomp hidan in tajjutsu,nor speed.Sasuke did not have his sharingan activated,he does not even need it for kirin.Thats the reason he did not see susano.He did have chakra for it,cause if he didnt,he could not activate the ARMORED susano after kirin to fight orochimarus 8 headed snake.Amaterasu was said to be hot as sun,but could not burn karin down...another flaw.Wut?Kakashi was able to keep up with itachi for a while,only when he used tsukuyomi was he defeated because of kakashis foolish thinking he could match itachis mangekyo abilitys with ordinary sharingan.Activation of chidori may be light speed,but sasuke himself is not.

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    • Aha i seem to get it. But wait Itachi did used his light speed just to avoid Kirin? Or there is also some scene where's he using it ?

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    • Killer723 wrote: Aha i seem to get it. But wait Itachi did used his light speed just to avoid Kirin? Or there is also some scene where's he using it ?

      He used susano to block kirin.He was able to react to sasukes hand movment,thats how he survived.

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    • Mcpowa wrote: poor itachi always bh minato tht dude cant catch a break

      Itachi is faster than shisui and shisui>minato as shisui was "teleporter" with raw speed while minato used a real teleportation jutsu. There is no other explanation as there was chakra seen or sensed and itachis one eye was closed and he didnt activate susanoo in the panel when it struck him, every but of evidence leans towards "itachi dodged light" and raikage evading amaterasu is clearly bcuz of plot as he is not faster than light and sharingan is not the normal eye , it doesnt even need light to see things and it clearly can keep up with movements the nornal eye cant track which means Amaterasu is even faster than light, another reason obito got caught as his ninjutsu is light-speed. Not even minato nor raikage could land a hit on obito with just speed.

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    • Funny thing tht raikage stated tht minato was the fastest man ever lived so yeah poor shisui

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    • Obitos jutsu. may be light speed,BUT OBITOS REACTON TIME isnt.Also raikage used v2 full speed to dodge amaterasu and he could not hit naruto nor minato which means light speed>amaterasu activation.Oh sure,its plot when things are not in itachis favour >_<.When was itachi stated to be faster than shisui?As far as i remeber itachi also said shisu>himself.And may i add itachi was only keeping up with KCM naruto who is NOWHERE near close the speed of light.

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    • @kakashi Itachi have speed light as guy stated and explained above , he even dodged Kirin.

      EDIT: there's also a chance that Sasuke Amaterasu isn't strong and fast like the one Itachi use , i don't know.

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    • show the scans

      itachi is so fast tht he couldnt dodge sasuke shuuriken jutsu that light speed =)

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    • @Mcpowa that was plot.

      Pure plot.

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    • Kakashisologod1 wrote: Obitos jutsu. may be light speed,BUT OBITOS REACTON TIME isnt.Also raikage used v2 full speed to dodge amaterasu and he could not hit naruto nor minato which means light speed>amaterasu activation.Oh sure,its plot when things are not in itachis favour >_<.When was itachi stated to be faster than shisui?As far as i remeber itachi also said shisu>himself.And may i add itachi was only keeping up with KCM naruto who is NOWHERE near close the speed of light.

      No it is not in itachi's favour, the only speed jutsu which is fast as light is hiraishin in the databook and minato using hiraishin is light-speed.Still sharingan can see movements not visible to the naked eye so kakashi not even seeing an afterimage is bcuz clearly itachi is faster than light. And the reason sharingan can see high speed movements which normal eye cant see is enough proof that whatever comes from sharingan is gaster than light too. Raikage avoiding is pure plot as he couldnt even avoid chidori of sasuke which is near lightning-speed as kakashi could cut lightning bolt with it. And raikage couldnt hit minato who used ftg.

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    • now its plot nice counter

      ghost the itachi ur speaking of gt feats tht rivals rsm naruto and tjj madara hahahah

      i got another "plot" for u guys chapter 390 page 11,itachi is so fast tht he couldnt dodge sasuke`s katon jutsu.

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    • Killer723 wrote: @kakashi Itachi have speed light as guy stated and explained above , he even dodged Kirin.

      EDIT: there's also a chance that Sasuke Amaterasu isn't strong and fast like the one Itachi use , i don't know.Again,it was hype for kakashi that he cut lighting bolt,as adult he would be at least 5x faster which makes him faster than light.And again,sasuke was the same speed as V1 raikage+had sharingan thats why he was able to stab him.

      Chance,assupmtions and assumptions.HE did not dodge kirin he used Fucking susano,how hard is it to understand? Ghost Do you even know what you are saying?Itachi admitted shisui was stronger and faster than him,which would make shisui faster than kaguya/ttj madara which would also make him faster than quick silver?Dont make me laugh.

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    • yeah minato takes this

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    • Mcpowa wrote: now its plot nice counter

      ghost the itachi ur speaking of gt feats tht rivals rsm naruto and tjj madara hahahah

      i got another "plot" for u guys chapter 390 page 11,itachi is so fast tht he couldnt dodge sasuke`s katon jutsu.

      He was acting as if he got caught. Even obito stated"you believed every facade itachi made". Itachi was purely acting, and if he dodged lightning fast shuriken , he can dodge that too. Why cant you take statements as it is?Obito and kabuto both said itachi was lying the entire time, so whatever you say is just an assumption. Zetsu clearly stated"itachi is acting very weird and moving too slow, as if he got injured before the fight". If you cant prove it, this wont be a debate right? Kakashisologod1, Chakra was neither sensed not seen.My statement stands. Again itachi could keep up with shisui who was the fastest guy then. And itachi didnt awaken mangekyou at that time. Itachi surpassed shisui as zetsu stated"tsukiyomi is the most powerful genjutsu and amaterasu is the most powerful physical attack". So why not in the speed area?And shisui wouldnt lie and the director wouldnt allow his statement to be a lie. Naruto surpassed 4th hokage likewise, itachi surpasses shisui.

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    • Hungry Ghost realm wrote: Yeah they would all be dead.This fight is real fight we are talking about. The director is willing to skip the rules of a jutsu if it will benefit the plot. Amaterasu will solo based on manga fact and db facts alone. Itachi dodged it bcuz obito stated clearly that itachi was lying during the entire fight. Susanoo is a big humanoid structure, if itachi pulls that out, atleast sasuke's sharingan wouldve seen it. Or zetsu wouldve sensed it. Science tells that only someone who can is faster than light will be invisible to the naked eye. Because even light-speed leaves after-images. Kakashi with sharingan couldnt evennsee an afterimage of itachi which means itachi truly is light-speed. The databooks says"Sasuke's lightning shuriken is light-speed" and itachi easily dodged it. Itachi also had only one eye opened when kirin struck him meaning he couldnt have activated susanoo. Even the raikage left afterimages when he dodged amaterasu which is clearly a plotarmour as amaterasu is literally light-speed and one has to be faster than light to avoid amaterasu. Raikage couldnt even evade chidori which is near light speed as the jutsu was prohibited by minato bcuz the user wont even be able to see thier opponents movements bcuz they will be so fast. Even kakashi could keep up with minaro's base speed, minato was forced to use ftg when kakashi was preparing chidori amd kakashi couldnt do anything against itachi which tells itachi really is faster than light.

      LOL dude, people can say whatever they want, but here on this site we go off of what's shown. And what is shown is that Amaterasu is not that hot.

      No, Itachi didn't dodge it. It cannot be dodged. If you wanna go by whats said in the manga. And Itachi already said he used it. AND I ALREADY PROVED TO YOU THAT YOU DON'T EVEN NEED ONE EYE TO ACTIVATE SUSANOO. Madara has proven it. Zetsu had already noted throughout the fight that Itachi wasn't fighting like he should've; if Itachi didn't use Susanoo but said he did, Zetsu would have called him out. Sasuke didn't see it because he was being blinded by all the light. The Sharingan can be blinded by light, as shown in the fight with Kabuto.

      LOL. Are you trying to get science into a talk about Naruto? If science were ever a factor, then Guy going as fast as he did with the 8 gates would have caused a thermonuclear explosion.

      But I'll humour you. You wanna talk science? Nothing will ever go faster than the speed of light. It's a rule of physics. Time will literally bend to accommodate. So no, Itachi is not faster than light. Also if you think Sasuke's lightning flash creation shurikens are light speed, just know you're wrong.

      Raikage didn't evade Chidori because Sasuke is both naturally fast and has the predictive capabilities of the Sharingan.

      Minato was never forced by Kakashi to do anything. Kakashi is very skilled and would give a good fight, but Minato would never lose to him. And it was a training exercise, of course Minato wouldn't go all out. Not even close.

      On dodging things and whatnot, you're not understanding something. Here's an example. If someone aims a gun at my head, and I dodge the shot, it doesn't mean I'm faster than the bullet. It means I'm faster than the finger that pulled the trigger. I moved out of the path of the bullet before the bullet was fired. So I'm not bullet speed. Understand?

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    • AsianReaper wrote:

      Hungry Ghost realm wrote: Yeah they would all be dead.This fight is real fight we are talking about. The director is willing to skip the rules of a jutsu if it will benefit the plot. Amaterasu will solo based on manga fact and db facts alone. Itachi dodged it bcuz obito stated clearly that itachi was lying during the entire fight. Susanoo is a big humanoid structure, if itachi pulls that out, atleast sasuke's sharingan wouldve seen it. Or zetsu wouldve sensed it. Science tells that only someone who can is faster than light will be invisible to the naked eye. Because even light-speed leaves after-images. Kakashi with sharingan couldnt evennsee an afterimage of itachi which means itachi truly is light-speed. The databooks says"Sasuke's lightning shuriken is light-speed" and itachi easily dodged it. Itachi also had only one eye opened when kirin struck him meaning he couldnt have activated susanoo. Even the raikage left afterimages when he dodged amaterasu which is clearly a plotarmour as amaterasu is literally light-speed and one has to be faster than light to avoid amaterasu. Raikage couldnt even evade chidori which is near light speed as the jutsu was prohibited by minato bcuz the user wont even be able to see thier opponents movements bcuz they will be so fast. Even kakashi could keep up with minaro's base speed, minato was forced to use ftg when kakashi was preparing chidori amd kakashi couldnt do anything against itachi which tells itachi really is faster than light.

      LOL dude, people can say whatever they want, but here on this site we go off of what's shown. And what is shown is that Amaterasu is not that hot.

      No, Itachi didn't dodge it. It cannot be dodged. If you wanna go by whats said in the manga. And Itachi already said he used it. AND I ALREADY PROVED TO YOU THAT YOU DON'T EVEN NEED ONE EYE TO ACTIVATE SUSANOO. Madara has proven it. Zetsu had already noted throughout the fight that Itachi wasn't fighting like he should've; if Itachi didn't use Susanoo but said he did, Zetsu would have called him out. Sasuke didn't see it because he was being blinded by all the light. The Sharingan can be blinded by light, as shown in the fight with Kabuto.

      LOL. Are you trying to get science into a talk about Naruto? If science were ever a factor, then Guy going as fast as he did with the 8 gates would have caused a thermonuclear explosion.

      But I'll humour you. You wanna talk science? Nothing will ever go faster than the speed of light. It's a rule of physics. Time will literally bend to accommodate. So no, Itachi is not faster than light. Also if you think Sasuke's lightning flash creation shurikens are light speed, just know you're wrong.

      Raikage didn't evade Chidori because Sasuke is both naturally fast and has the predictive capabilities of the Sharingan.

      Minato was never forced by Kakashi to do anything. Kakashi is very skilled and would give a good fight, but Minato would never lose to him. And it was a training exercise, of course Minato wouldn't go all out. Not even close.

      On dodging things and whatnot, you're not understanding something. Here's an example. If someone aims a gun at my head, and I dodge the shot, it doesn't mean I'm faster than the bullet. It means I'm faster than the finger that pulled the trigger. I moved out of the path of the bullet before the bullet was fired. So I'm not bullet speed. Understand?

      Listen, we go by the rules of science as kishimoto adds scientific explanations to jutsus. But we dont go by the rules of the real world. Only in the real world nothing is faster than light. And besides, you cant say "we go by manga" as the DB is written by the director itself and the manga also states amaterasu is hot as sun. So?It also says amaterasu is the strongest physical attack. "The lightning shuriken gets summoned instantly and flies towards the victim at lightning-speed"-DB. It doesnt have to aim like a gun. And the opponent wont even expect it as it is summoned not stored inside a bag or something, so the opponent wont see the enemy taking it out. If itachi couldnt be seen by sasuke's sharingan, kakashi's sharingan,3 uchihas leaders sharingans, then that can only mean he is faster than light. Kabuto's technique was Sage mode:white rage, which is not normal light and besidew it was directed towards thier eyes. Kirin was not directed towards sasuke's eyes. someone holds a torchlight away and someone holds a torchlight directly in your field of vision...which will blind?The direct one. So sasuke had no trouble seeing itachi and kirin is not chakra , it is "real lightning which travels at light-speed guided by sasuke"-DB.

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    • Between this and all the other Itachi vs threads that Hungry Ghost realm has posted, and the fact that he barged in a Boruto plot theory thread and wrote that he'd like Itachi to come back and seal Boruto with Totsuka...I think we just oughta let him have it. Clearly he's drawing these feats from a black hole of an Itachi fanfiction and there's really nothing we can do to change it.

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    • Mr. Grave wrote: Between this and all the other Itachi vs threads that Hungry Ghost realm has posted, and the fact that he barged in a Boruto plot theory thread and wrote that he'd like Itachi to come back and seal Boruto with Totsuka...I think we just oughta let him have it. Clearly he's drawing these feats from a black hole of an Itachi fanfiction and there's really nothing we can do to change it.

      Lmao are you telling this bcuz you got nothing more to say?Cuz you got no facts to prove your argument?I just said it would be cool if itachi returned like we got little to no fights of itachi in the manga, I was hoping if the new director could create a plot about how boruto can be saved if he gets sealed.....cuz its stated that totsuka was imbued with a sealing powers...so like naruto went rescuing sasuke, boruto's friends would go on a mission to save boruto by unsealing him like sasuke did to orochimaru , who got sealed with totsuka, thats all lmfao....The way boruto is progressing is kinda stale...it doesnt have the pump and hype of shippuden honestly...just a suggestion thats all. This is what I get fo stating manga and db facts?Atleast dont say anything if you got no counter-argument instead of being sore...

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    • ^If you want my counter-arguments, scroll up. I have made them already in response to @QuakingStar's pro-Itachi arguments and the reason that I didn't want to restart this argument with you is because, frankly, I'm tired of sounding like a broken record.

      Besides, didn't everyone already take turns explaining to you why those feats you're attributing to Itachi are not correct?! They're like..real things that have happened in the manga yet you chose to shrug them off because they don't satisfy your way of how you think this battle would pan out.

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    • Mr. Grave wrote: ^If you want my counter-arguments, scroll up. I have made them already in response to @QuakingStar's pro-Itachi arguments and the fact that I didn't want to restart this argument with you is because, frankly, I'm tired of sounding like a broken record.

      Besides, didn't everyone already take turns explaining to you why those feats you're attributing to Itachi are not correct?! They're like..real things that have happened in the manga yet you chose to shrug them off because they don't satisfy your way of how you think this battle would pan out.

      All the anime battles are filled with plot-armoury, no way can you really assess thier true skills with just that. If any statement in the manga or databook has been revoked, it can only mean the director wanted that certain character to come out victorious... Im talking about a real fight with no plot armour and favouritism....then itachi would easily win with sun-hot amaterasu, even if his opponents evade , they will still be scorched to ash as not even diamonds can tank the heat nor survive the heat of the sun...if the director didnt want to give hope, he shouldnt have hyped that jutsu as "the strongest physical attack" , the flames from hell which is hotter than sun itself" etc etc....You cannot simply ignore the original plans of the director.

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    • Hungry Ghost realm wrote: </div> Listen, we go by the rules of science as kishimoto adds scientific explanations to jutsus. But we dont go by the rules of the real world. Only in the real world nothing is faster than light. And besides, you cant say "we go by manga" as the DB is written by the director itself and the manga also states amaterasu is hot as sun. So?It also says amaterasu is the strongest physical attack. "The lightning shuriken gets summoned instantly and flies towards the victim at lightning-speed"-DB. It doesnt have to aim like a gun. And the opponent wont even expect it as it is summoned not stored inside a bag or something, so the opponent wont see the enemy taking it out. If itachi couldnt be seen by sasuke's sharingan, kakashi's sharingan,3 uchihas leaders sharingans, then that can only mean he is faster than light. Kabuto's technique was Sage mode:white rage, which is not normal light and besidew it was directed towards thier eyes. Kirin was not directed towards sasuke's eyes. someone holds a torchlight away and someone holds a torchlight directly in your field of vision...which will blind?The direct one. So sasuke had no trouble seeing itachi and kirin is not chakra , it is "real lightning which travels at light-speed guided by sasuke"-DB. </div> DB has errors like i said and i showed you 2 errors,but there are more.Amaterasu is hot as sun,but could not burn trough karin.And what proof do you have that itachi did not predict sasukes hand movments and dodged before sasuke threw?Re-read the manga again.Sasuke did not have sharingan up,how was he supposed to see susano when itachi used it at the last second?Heck,even zetsu wouldev had point it out that itachi was lying.Oh and may i add,itachi still got hit,so him dodging is a clear lie.

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    • @Hungry Ghost realm

      Hahahaha

      Wow, I've come across Itachi fans before but you take the cake. Your "arguments" have already been debunked and there are many posts that show why Minato would win. You probably won't change your mind and of course can have your own opinion, but when you let your own super bias mean more than actual feats, you are just plain wrong.

      This is most likely just trolling, so don't worry about this guy @Kakashisologod1 and @Mr. Grave. Ghost is looking for attention on a dead thread.

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    • I mean itachi being faster than light >_>

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    • That guy made my day :D

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    • Ninja Of War wrote: @Hungry Ghost realm

      Hahahaha

      Wow, I've come across Itachi fans before but you take the cake. Your "arguments" have already been debunked and there are many posts that show why Minato would win. You probably won't change your mind and of course can have your own opinion, but when you let your own super bias mean more than actual feats, you are just plain wrong.

      This is most likely just trolling, so don't worry about this guy @Kakashisologod1 and @Mr. Grave. Ghost is looking for attention on a dead thread.

      Databooks are canon so whatever you say is pure bull****.Thats the exact meaning of "plotarmour". If dodging lightning is not light speedster level then what is?Dont blame your inability to argue with documented facts on me.Attention seeking?Nah. Just stating facts. Instead of thinking why the databooks are filled with errors , think why the director didnt keep the rules of certain jutsus which wouldve obliterated the whole earth. Like there is no need for saying it burns hot as sun if he aint gonna keep his word right?What would happen if limbo can be see by byakugan users?That would destroy the entire lethality of the technique.You see my point?The entire reason itachi is seen as "weak" is bcuz his techniques were weakened as hell, his opponents wouldnt have a chance of survival otherwise.Im not attention seeking youre just trying to justify your inability to state facts lmfao

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    • For the last freaking time, Itachi did not dodge the Kirin, he blocked it with Susanoo. And not to mention that he could have just reacted to activate Susanoo just before Kirin actually came down. People always want to go for the high end I swear.

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    • Hungry Ghost realm wrote: The entire reason itachi is seen as "weak" is bcuz his techniques were weakened as hell, his opponents wouldnt have a chance of survival otherwise.Im not attention seeking youre just trying to justify your inability to state facts lmfao

      That's the most contrived, cringe-worthy, bullshit justification for Itachi's abilities that only an Itachi fanwanker of your caliber can pull off.

      By that same logic, I could say the DIRECTOR downplayed Minato's speed in the manga because if he hadn't done that, we wouldn't have been able to see him.

      We saw that Amaterasu's flames didn't burn as hot as the sun during the Kage Summit, during the Fourth War arc and during the Sasuke v. Itachi fight.

      We know Itachi was saved by Kirin thanks to Susanoo. I justify it as plot armour, but some say that he followed Sasuke's hand movements and I guess that makes sense too. And there was no way he was outta chakra cause seconds later, after the Kirin strike happened, Itachi conjured his Susanoo. And don't give me that bullshit about him conjuring Susanoo with his lifeforce. That is unheard of, no one made mention of ANYONE in the Naruto verse conjuring Susanoo or pulling off any other significant jutsu VIA their lifeforce.

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    • Mr. Grave wrote:

      Hungry Ghost realm wrote: The entire reason itachi is seen as "weak" is bcuz his techniques were weakened as hell, his opponents wouldnt have a chance of survival otherwise.Im not attention seeking youre just trying to justify your inability to state facts lmfao

      That's the most contrived, cringe-worthy, bullshit justification for Itachi's abilities that only an Itachi fanwanker of your caliber can pull off.

      By that same logic, I could say the DIRECTOR downplayed Minato's speed in the manga because if he hadn't done that, we wouldn't have been able to see him.

      We saw that Amaterasu's flames didn't burn as hot as the sun during the Kage Summit, during the Fourth War arc and during the Sasuke v. Itachi fight.

      We know Itachi was saved by Kirin thanks to Susanoo. I justify it as plot armour, but some say that he followed Sasuke's hand movements and I guess that makes sense too. And there was no way he was outta chakra cause seconds later, after the Kirin strike happened, Itachi conjured his Susanoo. And don't give me that bullshit about him conjuring Susanoo with his lifeforce. That is unheard of, no one made mention of ANYONE in the Naruto verse conjuring Susanoo or pulling off any other significant jutsu VIA their lifeforce.

      Lmfao what you stated was such a defensive move to make your fave more stronger than itachi, ughh so cringeworthy and bullshitted. Lmao it's stated in the databook that susanoo is an ethereal warrior who lives inside the user.Yeah why not, minato shouldnt have been downplayed to match obito's speed, lmao youre tripping, We are talking about a real fight so the documented facts are more important here than rule bended anime feats.Yes susanoo eats the lifeforce of the user for hellsake its stated that "every cell in the body hurts in the user's body" lmao why you so triggered smh ,if someone's wanking it's you.Come with some facts lmao not feats. Susanoo roared when itachi released it when he was about to tap sasuke's forehead which clearly refers to it being a living being not just some chakra formation. It is a spiritual warrior lmao it's stated in the databook,fanboy

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    • You are the fanboy here.And its shown that susano ALSO takes chakra.Thats what determnes stages/strenght of susano.

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    • @Hungry Ghost realm

      The fact is you are wrong. You say Itachi dodged the Kirin, and he didn't. You say that Itachi's abilities have been downplayed because his opponents wouldn't have a chance otherwise. How so? Have you seen Itachi at his best to say that? Because up until his fight with Sasuke, he has never displayed anything remotely close to his full capabilities although in that fight he was sick and didn't want to kill Sasuke. But in what way could his abilities have been more than what it was since you say they were downplayed. Tsukuyomi has only been broken by Sasuke due to meeting the necessary requirements that most don't have. Amaterasu being as hot as the sun is a hyperbole and is very well be a figure of speech as it's the highest form of Fire Release. His Susanoo is Susanoo. It was able to shield Itachi from a small mountain busting attack. Other abilities such as shurikenjutsu he excelled at. He was very fast. He's practically the master of genjutsu. He has his fair share of water and fire ninjutsu. Like dude where in the world did you get that Itachi has been downplayed. He has quite literally never been owned by anyone he fought against. You sir have no idea what you are talking about.

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    • Rachin123 wrote: @Hungry Ghost realm

      The fact is you are wrong. You say Itachi dodged the Kirin, and he didn't. You say that Itachi's abilities have been downplayed because his opponents wouldn't have a chance otherwise. How so? Have you seen Itachi at his best to say that? Because up until his fight with Sasuke, he has never displayed anything remotely close to his full capabilities although in that fight he was sick and didn't want to kill Sasuke. But in what way could his abilities have been more than what it was since you say they were downplayed. Tsukuyomi has only been broken by Sasuke due to meeting the necessary requirements that most don't have. Amaterasu being as hot as the sun is a hyperbole and is very well be a figure of speech as it's the highest form of Fire Release. His Susanoo is Susanoo. It was able to shield Itachi from a small mountain busting attack. Other abilities such as shurikenjutsu he excelled at. He was very fast. He's practically the master of genjutsu. He has his fair share of water and fire ninjutsu. Like dude where in the world did you get that Itachi has been downplayed. He has quite literally never been owned by anyone he fought against. You sir have no idea what you are talking about.

      Its not a figure of speech as it was stated in both manga and databook. Yeah susanoo takes chakra+lifeforce , do naruto say his body hurts after using rasengan too many times?Its states that susanoo also eats the lifeforce and takes away the light of sharingan. Lifeforce is linked to chakra lmfao, why did kakashi die after using kamui to save choji?

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    • If Amaterasu was actually as hot as the sun, the area will and not a specific target itself will be incinerated off of the sheer heat in an instant. But, like I said, explain to me how Itachi was downplayed.

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    • ^After running out of chakra, the users are left to fend off on lifeforce. That doesn't mean said user can utilize lifeforce to perform jutsu. That's what chakra is. That is why ninshu and later ninjutsu were founded AFTER Kaguya ate the Shinju fruit and humanity got chakra.

      The "feels pain in every cell" statement could most likely be related to the MS, as both Itachi and Sasuke began bleeding from either eyes after prolonged use (either when they utilized Susanoo or used Amaterasu).

      Also, I was not hyping Minato up to that extent. I was just using your logic against you. The fact that you completely missed the point tells me that you're not even trolling - you've just been misled and are now too stubborn to accept you're wrong.

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    • Amaterasu being hot was sun has already been proved wrong.His susano is not stronger than sasukes or madaras armored susano,and minato does not even need to destroy it as he can just warp it.Face it,itachi is not any stronger than minato.Minato high/diff or itachi high diff.Not itachi stomping.

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    • Mr. Grave wrote: ^After running out of chakra, the users are left to fend off on lifeforce. That doesn't mean said user can utilize lifeforce to perform jutsu. That's what chakra is. That is why ninshu and later ninjutsu were founded AFTER Kaguya ate the Shinju fruit and humanity got chakra.

      The "feels pain in every cell" statement could most likely be related to the MS, as both Itachi and Sasuke began bleeding from either eyes after prolonged use (either when they utilized Susanoo or used Amaterasu).

      Also, I was not hyping Minato up to that extent. I was just using your logic against you. The fact that you completely missed the point tells me that you're not even trolling - you've just been misled and are now too stubborn to accept you're wrong.

      Lmao so "every cell"=eye pain now?He was clearly referring to the body pain.Stop twisting words. Kakashisologod1, proven wrong=plotarmour.Is it so difficult to understand?In a real battle , itachi is invincible even though it's a little hard for you to accept.

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    • Dude wtf.Itachi is my second favourite character,why would it be hard for me to acept.i never said it was plot armor i said it was fucking DB mistake and if it hasent been shown in the manga i wont belive it.

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    • Hungry Ghost realm wrote:

      Mr. Grave wrote: ^After running out of chakra, the users are left to fend off on lifeforce. That doesn't mean said user can utilize lifeforce to perform jutsu. That's what chakra is. That is why ninshu and later ninjutsu were founded AFTER Kaguya ate the Shinju fruit and humanity got chakra.

      The "feels pain in every cell" statement could most likely be related to the MS, as both Itachi and Sasuke began bleeding from either eyes after prolonged use (either when they utilized Susanoo or used Amaterasu).

      Also, I was not hyping Minato up to that extent. I was just using your logic against you. The fact that you completely missed the point tells me that you're not even trolling - you've just been misled and are now too stubborn to accept you're wrong.

      Lmao so "every cell"=eye pain now?He was clearly referring to the body pain.Stop twisting words. Kakashisologod1, proven wrong=plotarmour.Is it so difficult to understand?In a real battle , itachi is invincible even though it's a little hard for you to accept.

      haha itachi invincible that has to be the funniest thing iv'e heard today. itachi is by no means invincible he isn't even top-tier he's not even the strongest in the akatsuki(although he is the second in my opinion)itachi loses this one by a very very slight margin

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    • I wanna give it to Minato, but Sharingan bs is too strong. Without Sharingan Minato would stomp all over itachi.

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    • Ancladar wrote: I wanna give it to Minato, but Sharingan bs is too strong. Without Sharingan Minato would stomp all over itachi.

      Obito also had sharingan,yet he still got caught.

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    • Ancladar wrote: I wanna give it to Minato, but Sharingan bs is too strong. Without Sharingan Minato would stomp all over itachi.

      You're suggesting that we remove one of Itachi's most defining battle feats. I don't think it works that way. And Itachi's Sharingan along with its Mangekyo variant could be easily bypassed by a ninja of Minato's caliber. It's just that we've never seen Itachi fight an opponent who could at least match his skills. Well, actually there were two instances of that happening, but in the first one he had help from two Jinchuuriki and in the second one, he whipped out a brand new, never seen before technique out of thin air and saved the day. That is precisely the reason why Itachi fanboys like our ferocious friend over there think Itachi's invincible - because we've never seen the guy matched with someone who might actually give him a run for his money like Minato.

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    • While true he wasn't the genjutsu expert Itachi was.

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    • Hungry Ghost realm wrote:

      Databooks are canon so whatever you say is pure bull****.Thats the exact meaning of "plotarmour". If dodging lightning is not light speedster level then what is?Dont blame your inability to argue with documented facts on me.Attention seeking?Nah. Just stating facts. Instead of thinking why the databooks are filled with errors , think why the director didnt keep the rules of certain jutsus which wouldve obliterated the whole earth. Like there is no need for saying it burns hot as sun if he aint gonna keep his word right?What would happen if limbo can be see by byakugan users?That would destroy the entire lethality of the technique.You see my point?The entire reason itachi is seen as "weak" is bcuz his techniques were weakened as hell, his opponents wouldnt have a chance of survival otherwise.Im not attention seeking youre just trying to justify your inability to state facts lmfao

      LoooooooL

      You continue to prove my point. Looking for approval for your super biased version of Itachi is attention seeking at its finest. Your arguments are invalid. Itachi never dodged lightning, that is ridiculous. Referring to Itachi as light speed and the fact that you had to resort to the previous statement proves you add no value to this discussion.

      Manga > Databook. Again, actual feats mean much more than your thoughts and assumptions. Nice try though. If you one day find a real point to make, I might have an actual discussion with you, but right now it's not worth it. Feel free to scroll up to my previous posts to see my points.

      @Rachin123

      Shouldn't this thread be closed already?

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    • Databook has wayyyyyy too many mistakes/errors to be trusted without manga supporting those `facts`.

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    • Saying databooks is mistake is stupid as it was written by the director and if anything happened against the databook then its a sure plotarmour. Kakashi's chidori was stated to be cut everything and he did cut diamond. Kamui was stated to pull any object into another dimension and there was no defense against this technique and it has maintained the hype. Why just a change for itachi's techniques?Amaterasu burned toad rock in a less than a split second but didnt kill jiraiya?it didnt burn fucking sasuke?It didnt burn naruto's cloak?Isnt that a plotdevice?Clearly amaterasu was nerfed and kakashisologod1 did you even read the manga?Its clearly written amaterasu is hotter than sun temperature. It is also stated itachi planned that fight completely and Tobi further stated sasuke stood zero chance. So try reading manga clearly. Keep in mind that kakashi who kept up with 4th hokage speed was an Anbu so dont bellitle the leader of ANBU who was higher than kakashi who was the rival of gai another speedster. WAIT you guys said "minato knows about the sharingan so he will not look at itachi"bullshit. Asuma said only Gai can fight itachi without looking itachi in the eye because he is the best taijutsu user.

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    • Correctio.Asuma said only guy out of 3 of them can fight itachi.Ever hear of word hyperbole?Because thats whats happening in the naruto shippuden.Madara said his susano can destroy everything,but it has clearly been proven wrong.So you want to play it that way?Then i will just say that you implie that its plot device when things are not in itachis favour.

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    • Lmao as far as I know everything except izanami was foreshadowed by the author about itachi the author already plannwd that he's gonna give all the godly jutsus to itachi because he is his fave character lmao dont argue this. Each and every technique of itachi is named after a japanese god. Ask any japanese fan they would tell that amaterasu was nerfed because thier wont be any plot or any proceedings otherwise. Lmao feats are not greater than DB or manga statements. Its the opposite. If the manga or anime dont keep the rules of the DB or earlier established statements its a plotdevice. Understood?Madara destroying everthing?why not?Yeah susanoo was supposed to be ethereal so why not?no physical attacks or real world attacks should work against susanoo only ethereal attack should work against it. Considering how mei's lava couldnt do shit yet raikage's punch could even do shit is retarded. lmao well lets play it that way then, anaterasu is strongest physical attack summoned from hell=databook3 and zetsu the will of kaguya. Wait did you know kabuto was going to use itachi's tsukiyomi for the moon plan?Yeah he was going to do that because he wanted to win against tobi. Zetsu also stated tsukiyomi is the ultimate genjutsu.IT is weaker in the terms of time control space and matter manipulation. Hyperbole?dont ever bring that stupid shit in this debate nothing in the naruto series is a hyperbole if its stated to be a certain power in the 1st place. Well I wont argue about itachi using izanami anyway even though in no way is it an asspull as director already planned that for itachi.amaterasu,susanoo,tsukuyomi,izanami,izanagi are all gods so you get what I mean all these god-named techniques

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    • Name does not show its power(my name for example :P).IT is weaker than tsukuyomi but it also has many advantages over it.Madaras stament is hyperbole because Narutos tailed beast mode can easily defeat it,so can sasukes PS.Lmao,shows how little you know.Sasuke is kishimotos favourite character LUL.

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    • Kakashisologod1 wrote: Name does not show its power(my name for example :P).IT is weaker than tsukuyomi but it also has many advantages over it.Madaras stament is hyperbole because Narutos tailed beast mode can easily defeat it,so can sasukes PS.Lmao,shows how little you know.Sasuke is kishimotos favourite character LUL.

      Haha already said how your little"hyperbole" excuse aint gonna work. Naruto defeated madara in Susanoo?Plotarmour cuz madara's words greater than anything naruto did and the facts are that susanoo is ethereal meaning wordly attacks dont mean anything to susanoo.Director bended the plot for naruto to win like he is the damn hero ya know? The power levels were messed up because the director never kept the rules the moment this war started. Yeah names do indicate power in naruto as tsukiyomi=greatest genjutsu amaterasu=suns heat+strongest attack izanagi and izanami=undefeatable(only defeated with conditions)genjutsus Susano'O =absolute defense>>>>hyuuga+gaara defenses +ethereal =senju stands no chance if a certain uchiha activates susano'O only nagato or itachi or sasuke or maybe shisui or madara or sixpaths sage has the ability to be on par. Uchiha=spiritual+eyes+powerful chakra(powerful ninjutsu+gen) Senju=physical+lifeforce+stamina=stands no chance but uchihas stand eveey single chance against senju.

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    • Not a single chance against ucihas,yet hashirama was stronger than madara,your point?Excuse?Lmao,madara has been proven wrong multiple times in the war that his susano is nothing compared to other things.Susano absoulute defense>>>>gets destroyed so many times xD

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    • This "gets destroyed" is a showing of plotdevice at the finest. Senju being better than uchiha is bulls*** and you know that. Mere wood against ethereal armour?Not a chance.Even gaara's defense had better defense than susanoo yet susanoo is the most absolute defense?Yes because the only way susanoo was scratched was through nerfing and plot. Temari's wind element summons a weasel known as a vacuum being which literally bends space to attack the target yet it couldnt do a thing against susano'O of sasuke. Bending space >>>>>wood element. Just doesnt make sense how mere earthly wood gonna affect an ethereal god which is the strongest defense in narutoverse. If it couldve be broken that easily why say "absolute defense" anyway? Its not even an earthly defense. Space bending is the best an earthly technique can achieve. So wood element is below dust element+lava+vapour element+lightning finger of 3rd raikage +A's punch. Hashirama is the best among shinobi with current world abilities. Not with ethereal abilities if you even know the meaning of that word. Lava didnt stand a chance you still think wood can?against a heavenly god?

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    • If susano was that strong,sasuke wouldev had kicked this shit out of naruto,but the opposite happend at VOTE2

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    • @Kakashisologod1

      Don't bother, ghost is desperately seeking attention.

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    • Rachin123
      Rachin123 removed this reply because:
      Sigh...
      14:40, August 3, 2017
      This reply has been removed
    • Ninja of war is DESPERATELY SEEKING ATTENTION EVERYBODY CUZ HE CANT ACCEPT FACTS. I ALREADY PROVED HOW ITACHI WAS FASTER THAN LIGHT BY STATEMENTS STATED IN THE MANGA AND DATABOOK AND YES ONLY GUY AND ITACHI HAD 5 IN SPEED STATS

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    • Hungry Ghost realm wrote: Ninja of war is DESPERATELY SEEKING ATTENTION EVERYBODY CUZ HE CANT ACCEPT FACTS. I ALREADY PROVED HOW ITACHI WAS FASTER THAN LIGHT BY STATEMENTS STATED IN THE MANGA AND DATABOOK AND YES ONLY GUY AND ITACHI HAD 5 IN SPEED STATS

      Hahahahahahaha.....

      You are really funny.

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    • Ninja Of War wrote:

      Hungry Ghost realm wrote: Ninja of war is DESPERATELY SEEKING ATTENTION EVERYBODY CUZ HE CANT ACCEPT FACTS. I ALREADY PROVED HOW ITACHI WAS FASTER THAN LIGHT BY STATEMENTS STATED IN THE MANGA AND DATABOOK AND YES ONLY GUY AND ITACHI HAD 5 IN SPEED STATS

      Hahahahahahaha.....

      You are really funny.

      How?check the DB.

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    • ^Re-read your posts

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    • Whatever I stated ^^ is true. Prove me wrong or bring some proof that Im indeed lying not inconsistent feats.Naruto cannot suddenly be faster than sasuke for someone who was slower than B.

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    • Nope, not how it works. Since you stated it, prove that Naruto is slower than Bee.

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    • Ninja Of War wrote: Nope, not how it works. Since you stated it, prove that Naruto is slower than Bee.

      Bee stopped A full speed punch 1st time itself , naruto only dodged it the 4th time he punched.Proven.

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    • No they dont.There are multiple ppl who have 5 in speed.LMAO,naruto used his full speed only after he was punched.Second,SPSM naruto is LEAGUES above itachi in speed and power.

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    • @Ghost

      Nope, please provide actual evidence.

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    • Raikage was punching him with killing intent.he couldnt have been not using his full speed.B stopped A at the first time so he's clearly faster and naruto and tsunade used talk no jutsu which may be why naruto could avoid it the 4th time. How did he get the speed suddenly if he couldnt muster it before the 3 times?that doesnt make sense.

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    • ^So you don't have any evidence, just your own opinion?

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    • @Ghost

      Lets be clear. When the Raikage was going at it with B, it wasn't about the speed, it was about the power, though I found it to be plot that B actually overpowered A in his Lightning Armour. As for Naruto, he had the speed all along, he just didn't go full out. Maybe Naruto should've done that, but he did it the hard way and gradually used more of his top speed.

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    • He even said along the lines``Wow,old raikage is so fast.``He clearly underestimated him first 3 times,while B didnt.Tsunade had nothing to do with it.Naruto dodged Raikages punch at full speed while B only stopped V1 raikages punch.

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    • @ghost for the last time itachi is fast but he is a slug compared to KSM naruto and minato...minato wins this...

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    • Shisui was known for his mastery of body flicker which above minato and A. Shisui was equal to him even though he was younger. Kakashi was the fastest guy in konoha when itachi visited it. And maybe guy. Itachi outpaced him like nothing. Itachi outpaced naruto + B couldnt strike him even once. Naruto and tsunade was telling raikage to understand them and to stop attacking naruto so maybe raikage lowered his speed the 4th time you say he didnt use full speed which doesnt make sense as naruto was desperately trying to evade him and no it not about power what the hell?It was about if naruto could dodge his fast punch.

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    • At this point it's best to just ignore @Ghost as if he really is a ghost because almost everything he said is illogical, hyped up and bias, clearly.

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    • Point out what I said was bias.your logic is extremely biased your a stubborn ghost too. Illogical wait shisui mastering body flicker is illogical?I cant believe how you are even despite saying things so ignorant.Im defeating your baseless opinions so youre so scared so you try other cheap tactics.well good luck.you dont even know the meaning of ethereal or plotdevice or armour. Original statements+Databook>>>>>>>>>>Feats. The only feat which can be taken seriously are the ones which do not contradict the original feat or original statement.This shouod be clear. Hiruzen is indeed the strongest hokage since he knows every technique in konoha except kekkei genkai or jutsu with certain conditions. And his weapon enma makes him above hasirama+tobirama+minato.

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    • @Hungry Ghost, original statements and databooks do not outweigh feats.

      For example, Itachi said only those who have awakened Tsukuyomi and Amaterasu can awaken Susanoo. Original statement.

      Yet Sasuke, who hasn't awakened Tsukuyomi, awakened Susanoo. Feat.

      So which is true? Obviously Sasuke using Susanoo is the fact, so it outweighs Itachi's words.

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    • Japanese dont have plural or singular differentiation. So that susanoo was meant for only and ONLY ITACHI. That same susanoo talks about yata and totsuka, both weapons not available to sasuke. If you dont believe me , google some facts about japanese language.

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