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  • Rachin123
    Rachin123 closed this thread because:
    Question has been answered.
    00:55, June 20, 2017

    Am I correct in assuming that the Byakugan can't see underground? If it can how was Naruto able to get the drop on Neji during the Chunin exams?

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    • Whether it can or can't, I'd say Neji's defeat was largely due to overconfidence. He felt that a goofy loser like Naruto could never defeat a genius like him, so he let his guard down. Remember that both Neji and Tenten assumed the fight was already over (An American expression would be, "It's all over but the cryin'.") until Naruto came out and struck the final blow.

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    • Simple, Neji didn't have Byakugan activated when Naruto claw through the gound after the final clash with Revolving Heaven, which left Neji very tired state.

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    • yes it can. hinata can see for more than 5km in the 1t shippuden arc, so neji>>>>>> than that in his prime. so in the end, neji can see at least 5km+++ underground.

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    • Lorenzo.r.1st wrote: yes it can. hinata can see for more than 5km in the 1t shippuden arc, so neji>>>>>> than that in his prime. so in the end, neji can see at least 5km+++ underground.

      We don't know. I don't think that's how it works. Neji was a genius due to HOW he used his Byakugan, there's no mention of whether that translated to good use of the eye itself.

      Plus, i'd imagine the Byakugan has some limit regarding through how much material it can look through. Seeing through 5km of forest is maybe equivalent to 100m of soil. The forest wasn't that dense so the amount of looking through trees etc is far less than looking through 5km of actual soil.

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    • its on hinata's page, so I thought of mentioning it. I don't think so. in Naruto, most things are more for sure (aka literal. if it says it destroys everything, it most likely does, with no exceptions, the sharingan can see through one's moves-yes, but it depends on the user's chakra user, and mastery of it, and how their body is trained, and if it can see through everything, it will).

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    • So that means healthy Itachi with Susanoo plus sword of totsuka and yata mirror is invincible, and Nagato is unbeatable.

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    • Neji's Byakugan was not activated. But, we all know that Neji only lost because of plot no jutsu.

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    • Lorenzo.r.1st wrote:

      in Naruto, most things are more for sure (aka literal. if it says it destroys everything, it most likely does, with no exceptions, the sharingan can see through one's moves-yes, but it depends on the user's chakra user, and mastery of it, and how their body is trained, and if it can see through everything, it will).
      

      On the contrary, most stuff in Naruto is figurative. Stories rarely encompass the whole truth, statements get outdated or rectified. Nagato wasn't invincible, the Juubi not the end of the world, etc.

      Rachin123 wrote: Neji's Byakugan was not activated. But, we all know the Neji only lost to plot no jutsu.

      Ah yes the typical "it's plot". Neji was arrogant. He could've finished at several points but in stead patiently waited for Naruto to power up.

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    • Naruto would've tapped into Kurama's chakra regardless if Neji would've finished the fight earlier or not.The whole point was for Naruto to run out of his chakra, which Neji succeeded in doing.Getting up after having his chakra points blocked is part of Naruto's powers...it's not necessary plot.But him tapping into Kurama's chakra was inevitable. And i'm pretty sure that the reason why Neji didn't have his byakugan activated was because he couldn't.Because he was also at his limits. And talking about plot...it was also plot the fact that Naruto only used a small amount of shadow clones...considering that moments later he was able to create 1000 vs Gaara...Stop blaming everything on plot...he still lost...and he would lose again if they would fight again...Not to mention that Naruto got only a very very small amount of Kurama's chakra...

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    • Vladosaurus wrote: Naruto would've tapped into Kurama's chakra regardless if Neji would've finished the fight earlier or not.The whole point was for Naruto to run out of his chakra, which Neji succeeded in doing.Getting up after having his chakra points blocked is part of Naruto's powers...it's not necessary plot.But him tapping into Kurama's chakra was inevitable. And i'm pretty sure that the reason why Neji didn't have his byakugan activated was because he couldn't.Because he was also at his limits. And talking about plot...it was also plot the fact that Naruto only used a small amount of shadow clones...considering that moments later he was able to create 1000 vs Gaara...Stop blaming everything on plot...he still lost...and he would lose again if they would fight again...Not to mention that Naruto got only a very very small amount of Kurama's chakra...

      Well, notice that this fight (Neji vs Naruto) is similar to Rock Lee vs Gaara. Two Jinchuriki vs Taijutsu/Gentle fist user. Both jinchurikis were almost lost to their opponent, but they saved by their trump card a.k.a Tailed Beast chakra. I just want to point that out.

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    • @Sen'ei Jashu Of course. But it's still part of their character.The same way the byakugan is part of Neji's character, Kurama is part of Naruto's.

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    • I agree with Vladosaurus. I'm getting tired of people saying, "Oh, it was just the plot!" for everything. There have been times when that's the case, but other times saying that is ignoring other factors (Neji's fatigue and overconfidence in this case).

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    • @Thekillman

      Tell me how is that Naruto had enough time to create a clone after the collision, dig through the ground, have enough momentum to come up and uppercut Neji who by the way seen the attack coming but didn't have enough time to react despite other times being able to dodge close encounters just like that, like for example, Naruto's kick.

      @Vlad

      I blame plot because it was plot. Naruto sucks compared to Neji as we've seen and technically Naruto already lost until he tapped into Kurama's chakra. And sure Naruto could've used more clones, but for someone like Neji, it wouldn't have mattered.

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    • Vladosaurus wrote: @Sen'ei Jashu Of course. But it's still part of their character.The same way the byakugan is part of Neji's character, Kurama is part of Naruto's.

      Yeah, since the byakugan is a gifted power too.

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    • I disagree. It would have mattered. What would Neji do against let's say 500 clones? Keep rotating forever? It would be an endurance battle all over again, which, unless he has crazy stamina (and he doesn't), he would most likely lose.His rotation still got matched by a kunai/punch by a powered up Naruto...So 500 clones attacking him at once...yeah...i will take a wild guess and say that is more powerful than that...

      Kishi gave Naruto the strongest bijuu...at the time when he had no idea that he would introduce 8 other tailed beast... Naruto still had Kurama from the very beginning, the same way Neji had the byakugan from the very beginning...this is who they are, and this is by what they identify themselves.And honestly, it's not like Naruto started all of his fights already buffed by Kurama...if that were the case, yes, that would be unfair...but it's not the case.

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    • @Vlad

      500 Narutos are still Naruto. They suck just as much as he does. If Neji can move as fast as he did against all of Kidomaru's spiders, he'd have no problem doing this, especially since he won't have webs to worry about slowing him down. And let me just remind you that just because Naruto can outnumber his opponent doesn't mean he would win. This is something you continue to say. If this was all it took to do so, Naruto wouldn't have needed to always rely on Kurama for almost everything. And you know have his clones be defeated by basically every enemy he faced. And it doesn't matter if Naruto started those fights already tapping into Kurama's chakra, the fact remains he inevitably uses it. I also love how you dodged my point about how "Naruto had enough time to create a clone after the collision, dig through the ground, have enough momentum to come up and uppercut Neji who by the way seen the attack coming but didn't have enough time to react despite other times being able to dodge close encounters just like that, like for example, Naruto's kick".

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    • He made the shadow clone right after he and Neji collided.A little time passed between their collision and the clear of the dust/Neji rising. Naruto was already in the hole, so he just made a shadow clone, while his real self dug up a little further in the ground. It's not like he went 100 meters in the ground. He had time... And Neji didn't react to him coming about because simply he couldn't. If you rewatch the episode, you would see that Neji was barely able to walked to Naruto's hole.

      And the last time i checked, Naruto's clones did take out partially transformed Gaara...but i guess Neji is way stronger than that Gaara, right? Imagine Naruto doing that attack on Neji...how would he even survive that? Imagine Naruto throwing all those shurikens at Neji, like he did with Gaara. Neji would most likely use the rotation to defend himself...and then what? How would he counter 2000 punches coming to him? Gaara had his shukaku sand shield on, and still got hammered.And again, consider that Neji's rotation was matched by a powered up Naruto...Honestly...talking about plot...

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    • @Vlad

      The time pass was too short though. So you are telling me that Naruto had enough speed and strength to dig into the ground, and had the momentum to come bursting through the ground, but Neji couldn't react to it? I think not.

      First of all, Gaara was not in the right mind and could have easily blown Naruto's clones away with his wind, Sand Shuriken or his sand arm, but for plot convenience, he didn't. Also, it is impossible that 1000 clones landed a punch on Gaara due to most of them getting in the way. And considering Gaara could handle Lee's attacks in 5 gates, I don't see how Naruto's combined strength with his clones equals something even close to that. It is just pure bs. So yes plot plot plot plot.

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    • Considering that Naruto is a Uzumaki, who are renowned for their chakra and life force, yes, i does make sense since Naruto is naturally more durable Neji. You are assuming that they were at the same level of exhaustion, which they weren't. Ok then, maybe Gaara could've have handled the situation differently, but at the same time, Naruto could have summoned Gamabunta and his 1000 shadow clones right from the start.So Naruto could have as well handle things differently.And since 1000 Naruto vs Neji is a hypothetical battle, meaning that "plot" is off, explain to me how would Neji counter what i said in my previous reply. You are saying that Naruto only wins by plot...yet it's plot that stops Naruto from really exploiting his shadow clones like he did vs Gaara.

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    • @Vlad

      Considering how much we've seen Neji could be pushed against Kidomaru, he should have been able to dodge Naruto's uppercut because he was not pushed to that point of exhaustion. I just find it hard to believe that Naruto was able to do what he did in that short period of time after just colliding. Naruto probably would have used 1000 clones if it weren't for his chakra network being cut off. It's not like it is a go to move for Naruto too create 1000 clones. It is a last resort. And like I said, Neji would be able to handle 1000 Naruto clones, albeit be very tired afterwards.

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    • I find it very very hard to believe that Neji could handle 1000 shadow clones...honestly, that would be ridiculous, even for him. But let's say that somehow, Neji manages to take out 1000 shadow clones. Very unlikely, but let's say that he could. He would be no question tired and exausted as hell. At his limits no doubt. How would he be able to defeat the real Naruto, considering that after he created 1000 shadow clones, Naruto still had enough chakra to summon Gamabuta, while also being trapped in Shukkaku's sand? How would be Neji able to defeat Naruto? Honestly, with or without Kurama's chakra, Naruto could still beat Neji. And again, Kurama is part of Naruto's character...if Naruto didn't have Kurama, things would have stand different, but not necessary in a bad way. Don't forget that thanks to Kurama, Naruto was never able to properly use his chakra. If it wasn't for Kurama, Minato and Kushina would've been alive and Naruto would've been trained by them. This is why it's not right to strip Kurama off Naruto. Because you take away what he gives to Naruto, but things that hurt him are still there. Kurama is part of Naruto's character, and he has all the rights to benefit from this.

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    • @Vlad

      No it is very likely that Neji could take out 1000 Naruto clones. But, like I said, he'd be very tired. But, what is plot was how Naruto was even able to make 1000 clones and summon Gamabunta despite he needing some of Kurama's chakra to summon Gamabunta in the first place. Not to mention he came from a battle with Neji not even long before.

      Duh. We know that Kurama is part of Naruto's character, but when you continue to use one of the biggest powerups in the series that's not really even your power, and you never even worked hard to achieve, that shows you how much you suck.

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    • Well Neji didn't work hard to achieve the byakugan either. He was also born with it. He did train it in order to be become stronger. But what is Naruto suppose to do? He can't train his nine tails powers...at least not at that point, where he couldn't control it. He did train however and work hard in other categories. Like his shadow clones, or later in part 1 with his rasengan. And honestly the "it isn't his power" argument is just boring as hell. What was he supposed to do? Kill himself because he couldn't get rid of Kurama? Neji also only relies on his byakugan, but i guess in his case it's ok, because he had it since birth...oh wait, like Naruto did. And it's not like Naruto could get rid of his powers, could he? I don't know about you, but i think it's a lot easier to pop an eye out that to have a tailed beast extracted from you... Regardless if you think that Naruto sucks or not, it's still part his power and will forever be...and will always help him in battle.

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    • @Vlad

      The Byakugan is the power of the Hyuga. He was born with it. Him getting it was inevitable. But, clearly he worked hard to learn how to use it, mastered the Gentle Fist fighting style, and learned the advanced Hyuga clans that he was not suppose to learn just by watching. So don't put Neji and Naruto in the same category as that. And you know what's boring? Naruto always relying on the Nine-Tails. We understand that it is part of him, but if that is his go to move in almost every battle, that makes him a boring character. Where is his true power? Kurama messing with Naruto's chakra control has never been such a big issue as he still could create a hundred shadow clones, despite he failing to create a simple clone before. Lets talk about that bs. You always are trying to make excuses for Naruto. Naruto wears plot armor and is possess the ultimate form of plot no jutsu. I have no disdain for the character at all. I don't like Sasuke much and I've defended him. But, if it is clear that the character did not have what it took to defeat someone, and all of sudden they are able to, what else would you call it, but plot. Duh.

      But, we are getting off topic by a long shot. The Byakugan can see through trees and walls, so it can see through the ground. The problem is Neji didn't have his Byakugan activated. Though he didn't need it dodge Naruto's uppercut, but that is an argument for another day.

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    • You say that it's BS that Naruto, a guy with a ridiculous amount of can suddenly create hundreds of clones,yet Neji is genius when he learns how to use advanced Hyuga clan techniques just by watching...and you talk about BS... That's your opinion dude.You say that you find Naruto boring because he always relied on Kurama's chakra (which is not true, but whatever), but you like Neji, who literally only relies on his byakugan...that logic. And I'm not trying to make excuses for Naruto. I don't recall saying anything that is not canon.Yet you are the one who always negates canon stuff because it goes against what you like,you always blame everything on plot, yet the whole series is one big plot, and you are the one saying BS like Neji can take on 1000 Naruto shadow clone and then he can still beat Naruto...like, how does that make sense to you...? Canon is still canon, and you can't change it.We debate according to canon events, not according to made up speculations.

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    • @Vlad

      Damn you seem so pressed. I also never said I like Neji. That is your assumption. And that Naruto, even with his ridiculous amount of chakra, could not summon Gamabunta without Kurama's aid, but is able to do it even after his battle with Neji and after creating 1000 clones. How does that make sense? And yet you find bs that after watching the Hyuga practice for years, that Neji couldn't learn by watching. Clearly someone is being letting their emotions cloud their judgment. I'm not saying that what happened didn't happen, but the only reason Naruto won was because of plot. You act like it's a surprising thing to hear that plot is the reason someone won. It happens in all media at some points.

      But, like I said, this is not the place for this conversation. We literally slid right off topic.

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    • Lol, i'm not pressed or anything.Don't even try it with these smarty pants phrases...it won't work. There are a lot of things in Naruto that didn't make any sense, yet still happened.I cannon overlook those things and ignore them or at least most of them, even if some piss me off.For instance, when Deidara detonated himself, Sasuke summoned Manda, put him under a genjutsu and them reversed summoned. And he did this in like less that half a second and with virtually 0 chakra.With this kind of BS i'm not down either.But most of these illogical things would still apply in a possible confrontation because they are canon, and that's on what a battle debate is based on.I know that Naruto wasn't able to summon Gamabunta without Kurama's chakra, yet he still did it.He was under a lot of pressure, and maybe that's what make his chakra explode.Nobody really knew how much chakra Naruto had on his own.He might have his own untapped reserves.Who knows. Or maybe he tapped into Kurama's chakra, yet they usually kind of made it obvious when that was the case by showing Naruto getting his chakra, and it didn't seem to be the case. It's not my fault that they don't explain stuff.But most of these things decided important battles through out the series, and i'm not going to be the one that ignores them.Whatever.

      The byakugan can see through the ground, but obviously on limited range. Neji didn't have his byakugan activated when he got punched by Naruto, that's why he didn't see it coming.

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    • @Vlad

      I like how you brush off with whatever, but then edit your post later to include a whole paragraph.

      But, look just because it happened, doesn't mean anything. We also use logic as a deciding factor in a battle. And many of the things I mentioned and what you mentioned about Sasuke somehow escaping Deidara's blast, throws logic out the window considering the circumstances. It might be canon, because it happened, but if it doesn't make sense, it shouldn't have any value in a versus battle. This has nothing to do with personal liking because Neji or Naruto aren't even characters I favor. Many of others would agree that things happen out of the power of a character just for plot purposes and I refuse to use those things that again contradicts what we know just because it happened.

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    • What, now i'm not allowed to edit my comments? Sue me... Also, a lot of people, and actually most of people rely on these things.The sad part is that most of the fights in Naruto had a logic twister that contradicts what we prior knew about the characters/techniques. Now, you can either consider these things too extreme and pretend it never happened, hence your case, or you can take in account and give a chance to things that at least weren't that weren't too obscure. For instance, i don't think that Naruto summoning Gamabunta was too extreme, at least compared to other Naruto debatable moments, mostly because we have no idea about the extend of Naruto's chakra. If you want to not take in account these things, it's your choice. But you can't deny me for using canon information in debates.

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    • @Vlad

      I never said that you could not take Naruto's win over Neji into account. What I said was what happened didn't make much sense based on logic. We may not know Naruto's full extent of his chakra, but we know he needed Kurama's chakra to summon Gamabunta. And yet even after his battle with Neji and creating over a 1000 clones, you mean to tell me that he had the chakra necessary to summon Gamabunta? Yea something smells of plot. If you want to take Naruto's clearly made for plot convenience things into account, then by all means go ahead. If it doesn't make sense, I'm not supporting it, whether it happened or not. There is a reason people talk about how a character only won because of plot deemed it necessary. Not because they actually had what it took.

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    • people make Naruto seem weak without kurama and shit, but he didn't need kurama for literally every single jutsu he ever learned, besides for bijuu bomb. he would've gotten sm eventually, already knew summoming and rasengan even before he could actually tap into 10% of kurama's chakra, and even then (when he did need it), it was Naruto (both in body and mind.... mostly) fighting against whatever opponent. and as a matter of fact, he would've had kurama's chakra in him, even if kurama wasn't there for real.

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    • Without Kurama he would currently have Sage Mode and Six Paths Sage Mode. So after the 4th War ended, going forward he really doesn't need Kurama.. but before that Kurama was his lifeline for a fact.

      Kakashi, Naruto, Sasuke, and Sakura have survived and won countless times due to plot alone. If there was no plot importance in keeping them around, they would have been killed many times over.

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    • only for the pain fight. ill agree with u, if u can name another essential 'kurama moment' for me.

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    • vs Neji as was described already, vs Toneri(he suddenly forgot he had chakra absorption abilities), vs Madara(plot demanded Naruto be saved by Obito of all people), vs Obito(Naruto had to rely on Kurama.. without Kurama he had ZERO chance)... he NEEDED Kurama to face them and live. Plot saved Naruto vs Kakuzu and it saved him vs Pain too. There are clear examples.

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    • @QuakingStar

      It's not like Sakura has been in many fights.

      @Lorenzo

      You are kidding me right. Almost the whole series, Kurama has been essential for Naruto.

      He used it against Haku. He used it to summon Gamabunta. He used it against Neji. He used it against Gaara. He used it against Sasuke in Part I. But, at the time Sasuke used Cursed Mark so it's fine. He used it against Itachi. He used it Deidara. He used it against Orochimaru. He used it against Sasuke again in Part II. Though Sasuke shut that down real quick. He used it against Pain.

      And this is just counting manga fights. Include anime and movies and boy oh boy. As for KCM, he fought to achieve it, although with help. Six Paths Sage Mode was handed out and he not only needed Kurama but a small portion of Biju chakra too. It's almost like Naruto has no identity without Kurama.

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    • @rachin, pretty sure I said that Naruto can use some kurama's regardless if kurama is there or not, so haku's isn't one of these circumstances, but gama's case is, gaara's case is, sasuke' case isn't for one, itachi's case is/might be one (same for deidara), orochi wasn't even fighting them so its not like he needed it for one (with is the situation that im trying to implement here aka life ad death situations), so I put this one out for another time, and I already talked bout sasuke and pain. and by 'he fought', u mean he won against (he wasn't helpless though) kurama and stole his power right? and spsm wasn't handed out at all. he only got sp chakra. that's it. then he got some of the bijuu's chakra. that was also it. then he got sm's nature energy and mixed it with his sp chakra, and there u have the new and improved, spsm. then he got the bijuu's chakra from obito and mixed it with kurama's chakra cloak, and so on and so fourth, and that was also it.... and tbh, ur the one kidding me right? please tell me u have some sense of, well, common sense on, cuz if u did, u would know that just saying Naruto isn't useless without kurama, since he mainly used his own powers to win some fights, unlike some people may think and/or say.

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    • @Rachin123 Jesus Christ...the whole plot of Naruto revolves around him and Kurama...of course Naruto would rely on him...that's the whole idea of the series...that's what the series was based on...that's what the series is. I really don't know what you understood from all of Naruto.It literally all started with the explanation of Naruto and Kurama, and it all ended with the conclusion of their relationship. Why are you so upset that Naruto would rely on Kurama is beyond me...This is his identity.

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    • @Lorenzo

      I never said Naruto was useless without Kurama. I know he has some fights, and by some I mean very few, without Kurama, like against Kiba, but even that was plot. Naruto has barely won any fights without Kurama and that is a fact. And if you had common sense you would know that.

      @Vlad

      The whole idea may have started with Kurama being sealed in Naruto, but that doesn't mean he needs too use his powers in almost every battle. And I'm not mad whatsoever. But, the fact that you just said Kurama is his identity pretty much shows that Naruto is nothing without Kurama, which is just sad.

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    • Dude, the idea was always for Naruto to use Kurama.Kurama was always meant to be Naruto's main source of power. And honestly, you act like Naruto used the full power of Kurama right of the bat.When it truly wasn't like that. His power from Kurama progressed as the series progressed.It started small, by Naruto only receiving small parts of his powers, until the end of the series, when they pretty much became one. And ffs, we are talking about the main character of the show, of course he would come out as the strongest, and Kurama is what made him the strongest. So again, why are you so shocked that he got power from Kurama, when that was the plan of the series all along? The plot of Naruto and Kurama carried on even into Boruto , where it pretty much helped build the plot for the new series.Even if Kurama got some character development on his own (which was necessary), you are making the mistake of thinking that he and Naruto are supposed to be two different ideas.They were always meant to be one, and we were always supposed to think of them as one. There is no Naruto without Kurama, and no Kurama without Naruto. The whole concept of the series wouldn't have worked, and it wouldn't have made any sense otherwise.

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    • @Vlad

      It looks like you are getting upset. You might want to take a chill pill. I'm not shocked that Naruto used Kurama so much, but more disappointed. But, I honestly never even made this a big deal, but you. I literally only brought up plot being the reason Naruto beat Neji, than here you come defending Naruto and blowing things out of proportion and making things go off topic.

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    • nut neji basically win. he won against a chakra clash which had both naruto's and kurama's chakra on one side and neji's chakra on the other, and he still won that clash. now, that is what u call plot. neji should've never been able to beat that clash.

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    • I'm closing the thread as the question has been answered.

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