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  • It's been a plot device in the series for a while now, but I must ask... Why exactly are Hashirama's cells special? Is it because he is a Senju? Asura incarnate? Tobirama is his brother, him or any other Senju haven't been known for that stuff. Naruto is an Uzumaki descendant and an Asura incarnate as well, yet no big fuss is being made about his cells and his regeneration has been said to originate from and seems to be because of Kurama.

    So why exactly was Hashirama's body more special than any other Senju 's and why isn't Naruto's as special?

    Discuss.

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    • My guess is that as the Senju are closest direct descendants to Asura and Hashirama was his reincarnation, it made his powerful Senju chakra and life-force especially powerful, leading to the manifestation of the Wood Release. To which, even after his death, his cells retained the same potency, as to why Madara and every other user of Hashirama's cells were able to manifest his various physical capacities even after Asura's spirit was reincarnated into Naruto.

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    • Also, Hashirama most likely inherited the full extent of Hogoromo's body, more than the rest of the Senju, being that he is Asura's descendant, and this genetic makeup gives him excellent vitality, and chakra unknown to anyone else. I believe his regeneration capabilities are credited not only because of his vitality, and chakra, but also an exceptional skill in chakra control, seeing as he can use Chakra-Enhanced Strength, which would later be recognised as an application of Medical Ninjutsu, and the basis of this branch is heavily dependant on one's chakra control.

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    • Naruto is also a descendant of Asura's and also his incarnate. That's why I wonder why Naruto got the shorter end of the stick so to speak. It's weird, it seems as if Naruto didn't inherit most of special traits of his heritage and Asura and most of his power comes from Kurama and Hagoromo instead.

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    • Well, one I've heart a reasonable assumption that Naruto probably didn't get much of Asura's power as his reincarnate due to Kurama, an already mighty source of power, residing in him and granting pretty much the same abilities, i.e. powerful lifeforce and enhanced regeneration (+ the possibility of unlocking Kurama's tailed beast powers), which has made Asura's abilities simply unnecessery. But since Naruto's abilities heavily rely on Kurama instead of his own body, Naruto's cells became much less valuable than Hashi's, since the latter awakened this abilities through his body directly.

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    • @Ravenlot 27 What does being an Asura incarnate have to do with unlocking Kurama's powers?

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    • @UltimaDude, the mutually exclusive nature of Asura's and Kurama's abilities, i.e. when you have the one, the other becomes redundant, since both are almost the same.

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    • Ravenlot 27 wrote: @UltimaDude, the mutually exclusive nature of Asura's and Kurama's abilities, i.e. when you have the one, the other becomes redundant, since both are almost the same.

      Ahh, I see

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    • imo, the fuss is cuz of the usefulness of it. even without specific jutsu that would make it a more powerful kkg (like the mirror thing for ice release), it still bijuu lvl (depending on user) and has some of the best hax abilities seen yet. and its rare as fuck, so there might be some mula involved.

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    • Naruto's Regenerative abilities have been linked not just to kurama but to naruto's heratage aswell. he can regenerate as fast as he can because he is both a jinchuriki of kurama aswell as him being an uzumaki. we also have no way of telling if his regeneration sped up since fully awakening asura's powers. nothing has been said or shown so we can only assume that they increased. and no one has tried to take naruto's Cells so we don't know if they carry the same properties of hashirama's cells or not

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    • he always had asura's powers. he got hago's power (right seal) and chakra (half). asura IS him, and vice versa.

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    • The answer is simply that Hashirama has a number of very potent genetic abilities, including massive reserves, nature energy compatibility, strong healing, strong lifeforce, and biological compatibility with everyone (though few can withstand the lifeforce part).

      Any of these individual abilities would make those cells worth a lot, but their combined abilities synergize a LOT. Just look at how Yamato uses it, someone who has Hashirama's abilities in far less extreme form. He doesn't have godlike chakra, godlike healing or Sage Mode.

      As in Naruto's case, i think that Kurama already provides most of the power hashirama got (Sans wood release), so it's not as noticeable. Hashirama heals so fast due to high chakra levels and cell control (emulated by the Strength of a Hundred seal), but Kurama already gives that power. What we've seen of Naruto's cells is comparable to Hashirama's cells. The thing is, we don't know what Kurama's chakra did to him. For all we know, Ashura's power doesn't manifest properly because Kurama's chakra already expresses that power. Imagine a car that runs on a diesel engine for propulsion, versus a turbine or gasoline engine. Similar purpose, similar effects, but the machinery is different. And if there's already an engine under the bonnet, you can't fit another and different one in there, nor can you take the existing engine and modify it to be half-turbine, half combustion engine.

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    • Elveonora
      Elveonora removed this reply because:
      caps
      11:28, June 11, 2017
      This reply has been removed
    • Caps warning... edit or it shall be deleted. For the answers, the theory that Kurama's chakra sort of suppressed Asura's chakra in Naruto kind of makes sense. But I have another theory of my own, similar, but more complex.

      Some of us here may know the very basics of how genes in terms of heredity work and I have my own theory about how it all works in relation to chakra in general, being a jinchuuriki and an incarnate.

      So first, Naruto is foremost a child of Minato and Kushina, so his genome, sans mutations, consists partially of some of Minato's genes and some Kushina's, with some variables because of mutation. His chakra has therefore traits of both Kushina and Minato, but they don't have to be the special traits, they might not have been inherited. Then there is Asura's chakra. In my opinion, when it comes to being an incarnate, traits of Asura's chakra, Minato's chakra and Kushina's chakra overwrote each other in parts. In case of which, Asura sort of acts like a 3rd parent to Naruto in terms of chakra. That automatically means, all traits of Asura, Minato and Kushina can't be inherited and manifested in Naruto, since they have to split. Even more so, there is also Kurama, whose chakra has been merging with Naruto's since birth, acting like a 4th parent of sorts. Therefore, Naruto has circa one-fourth of traits from Asura, Minato, Kushina and Kurama + some original ones from mutations.

      In Hashirama, Asura's chakra had to compete only against his parents' chakras, leaving more space for traits to be inherited. Not to mention, Hashirama might have inherited all the best traits from both of his parents and also Asura, being super lucky, plus also possibly having manifested a positive mutation, being super super lucky. In Naruto, Asura's chakra had to compete against not only Minato's and Kushina's, but also Kurama's, leaving less space for traits to be inherited. Not to mention Naruto might have inherited all the worst traits from both Minato and Kushina, Asura and Kurama, being super unlucky, on top of which also having possibly manifested a negative mutation, being super super unlucky.

      So in short, the two main reasons are: space and luck, or lack of thereof.

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    • Elveonora wrote: For the answers, the theory that Kurama's chakra sort of suppressed Asura's chakra in Naruto kind of makes sense. But I have another theory of my own, similar, but more complex.

      I dont really see the big difference. Your parental theory still assumes that certain traits compete.

      The difference between having a power and not having a power, is much much greater than having either power or slightly more. IE, having one sharingan is a great leap of power from having none. Having a second Sharingan adds more power, but not nearly as much. Kurama already gives a bunch of power, adding some more from Ashura or Kushina does not nearly add as much power to Naruto. It would've been far more shocking if Sasuke were a jinchuriki or of Naruto had a Sharingan.

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    • ohkay you guys are overcomplicating this

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    • Don't worry, 40 years later in the storyline, they'll be worshipping Naruto's DNA as well lmao

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    • that would be cool as fuck. "27th hokage!! someone just stole the secret scroll of 'awesomeness'!!"... "how?! that scroll was hidden inside the 6th hokage's mask?! that's impossible!!".... 3 hours later... "hokage-sama!!".. "what?!".. "there's some random ass genin running around naked yelling that he found the most powerful jutsu ever!"... "NO!! u don't mean_!".. "yes sir! its the SEXY JUTSU!!!!"

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    • yeess Exactly! XD

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    • @Lorenzo. Lol, that jutsu would probably by then have it's own multiple version. Forbidden jutsu details: Distracts too much people, caused too many accidents in village. It's previous use was at the fifth shinobi war where it one shotted all of the opponent's armies.seeing the danger and power of the jutsu, the tenth Hokage, titled it as a forbidden jutsu and sealed it away where no one can ever find it.


      Hashirama cells. It's funny to see that the guy who only wanted to spread peace, love and happiness in his own and other villages had so much potentiel for destruction and weopenary in his blood lol.His blood is literally being used for enhancing humans for nothing good in his own village.

      Anyways, from what I know, transmigrants only get the special chakra rather than any special abilities. All other abilities are of the transmigrant's bloodline.

      The fact that I don't get is, Ashura inherited Hagoromo's six paths powers. So shouldn't Ashura incarnate's have Six paths chakra?

      Here's how I take it.

      Ashura's and Indra's chakra only powers up a incarnate's body, basically powering up any genetically gained KKG(Sharingan,Wood release for example).

      There's another of part of me thinking...

      What if chakra power and amount depletes each time Ashura and Indra reincarnates into a shinobi?

      I mean since both Madara and Sasuke and Hashi and Naruto as kids had a really big gap in their early and late ages. Like Madara defeated war shinobis as a very young kid. 12 year Sasuke probably could only manage a chunnin. And Hashirama was stronger than Madara. and we know where stands there(without Kurama).

      So what if almost all of Ashura and Indra's chakra were spent on Hashi and Madara? I mean since Hashi seemed to almost have six path chakra like chakra. So as a result, the next unexpected reincarnation had only a few chakra mentionable chakra left but enough to influence the will and personality of the transmigrants.

      This could also be because of Madara. Since Madara lived too long and thus complicated the chakra of the next incarnates possibly because they didn't have a time to recharge(since Uchiha clan seemed to have only one child at that time and the unknown disappearence of Senju and Uzumaki being left with very few members)

      So basically Madara had Indra's powerful chakra at the start of his birth and Hashi had Six paths chakra like power at the start of his birth.

      While Naruto and Sasuke had to manage whatever their bloodline and destiny offered them(Powerful Uchiha Chakra,Sharingan and okay enough chakra reserves, life force and a tailed beast). It was pretty clear that Sasuke had to grow up his power by training and plus his own Uchiha hatred boost. While Naruto had to train too to reach his own transmigrant enough level of chakra.

      Thus far from my own opinion I think it was only because of Sasuke's bloodline and his own determination(hatred) that awakened or regenerated Indra's chakra in him, thus being about closer to his previous predecessesor's power(EMS Madara), thus it making up for the loss of his incarnate chakra while Naruto's Jinchuriki chakra and Bloodline was enough to make up for the loss of his incarnate chakra.

      Which is the reason for the big gap of difference in their powers as kids against their predecessor's power at the same age.

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    • well, every incarnate seems to have his own unique trait that comes from hago in some way. hashi- wood release, sm, super omega life force, kurama lvl chakra, madara- second ms user ever, first ems user, strongest uchiha ever, genius, deciphered the tablet by himself, awakened rinne by himself, sasuke- youngest person ever to awaken the sharingan, youngest ems user ever, youngest rinne user ever, youngest ps user ever, Naruto- most perfect jinchuriki yet, youngest sm user, youngest spsm user, youngest perfect jinchuriki ever, do I need to go on?

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    • Well since I actually didn't get your point, yes, please go on.

      Well before that I would like to clearly state what I said.

      Sasuke and Naruto were entirely uncomparable to Madara and Hashi at their young age.

      And we clearly saw that both Sasuke and Naruto grew their chakra power rather than being born with it.

      I even think that they aren't actually even powered by that chakra, maybe they only influence their will and the appearence of their chakra. Hear me out here.

      Sasuke for example, came from the strongest family in his clan at that time. His father was a very powerful Uchiha and his brother too. So it's natural that he would be a powerful Uchiha with or without reincarnation.Naruto came from a family of a Uzumaki(large life force and Chakra reserves) as his mother and from a very very talented and powerful ninja as his dad. So it's natural that he would eventually atleast catch up to his state or let's just take Kurama, who Naruto probably will befriend eventually atleast.

      So basically both Sasuke and Naruto have very high potentiel. But unlike their predecessor's their youngest selves didn't posses such jonin level power.

      So I think that since Sasuke's chakra was never orginally strong at the start of the series(since there was no big mention of it) and since we literally saw him growing his chakra stronger by his own hatred unlike being born of it.

      And seeing Naruto being mostly helped by Kurama and having not much of any chakra feats without him.

      I think that Madara and Hashi kind of depleted any of their reincarnated chakra Indra and Ashura had. And I think Madara's actions of remaining for a very long time led to their reincarnation having less of any time left and mostly also very out of options left. Since the Uchiha clan did not seem to have any new children other than Sasuke, and also any vessel that shown enough power. While the Senjus were non and Naruto was probably the only Uzumaki left for Ashura and also taking Ashura chose him. I'm kind of losing my point....

      Basically Naruto and Sasuke were not lucky enough to gain the Chakra of Madara and Hashi at the very start. So they had to find their own ways to become strong.

      And with that I say that Hashi was probably powered up by Six paths Chakra(the chakra Ashura inherited).

      That and his possible nature affinity too. I mean since Senju were a clan that were able to take on the Uchihas a clan of mainly fore release users and taking that Tobirama Senju's natural affinity was Water release, it just seems that water release is a natural affinity in Senjus and Hashi possibly got a second affinity in earth release by himself(Like Sasuke) or by one of his parents. That with his extreme chakra control and his life force( since Kurama's strong life force was able to influence plant growth) with his own special ashura chakra, he was thus able to use Wood Release. And maybe because all of these specific traits being combined in him was the real reason why he was the only one able to truelly use it.

      And did anyone notice that Hashi and Madara's skills was supposed to be reversed considering their reincarnation thing with Indra being the skilled one at birth?

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    • Correction, not reversed. Madara too was extremely skilled, it just seems unusual for an Asura incarnate like Hashirama to have been so talented and powerful, since another one, Naruto was laughed at. Not to mention it was said that Asura too was born weak and had to reach his power through training and determination + from Hagoromo himself, so Hashirama seems to be an exception. For all we know, there might have been at least one extremely weak and untalented Indra incarnate in the past as an exception.

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    • Elveonora wrote: Correction, not reversed. Madara too was extremely skilled, it just seems unusual for an Asura incarnate like Hashirama to have been so talented and powerful, since another one, Naruto was laughed at.

      Hagoromo's reaction to Naruto seemed to indicate that Naruto's actually the dumbest Transmigrant so far.

      But yea, it seems that Transmigrants inherit their forefather's situations, not talents or personality traits. Ashuras have immense potential but it needs to be unlocked, whereas Indra are born with fairly easily accessed power. But Hashirama was already very skilled from the start. Well, Naruto was also extremely un-Ashura like since he had immense power from the start, he just didnt have the skill to use it.

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    • I really think that my/our theory is correct and Asura's chakra got overwritten in Naruto by Minato's, Kushina's, Kurama's + possible mutation. Even Hagoromo says that being born to two powerful individuals doesn't necessarily guarantee inheriting their power and talent. It's simply a matter of genetics, randomness is a thing. Naruto didn't inherit all of his parents' talents, Naruto didn't inherit his mother's special Uzumaki traits and powers, Naruto didn't inherit all of Asura's power, he was simply unlucky.

      But later he got rewarded with Six Paths Senjutsu from Hagoromo and Hashirama's cells which should contain not only Hashirama's chakra but also even more of Asura's, means, that Naruto now has the same or even higher power and skill as Hashirama.

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    • I think obvious aswer in this case is right one. Hashi cells deemed so hight cause they are: Asura transmigrant cells(with all thing Naruto have but not overshadowed by Kurama like in Naruto' case) + mokuton wich is bassically life realise. Mokuto works Asura powers - synergetically so well that said cells long since outlived Hashirama.

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    • yeah but Naruto could've been menma for all we know, if he had parents, remember? so maybe it was circumstances after all (yes, I do know that menma isn't cannon, but Im just using him as an example)

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    • It's because Hashi's DNA can give someone healing abilities, let them survive without food and water, give them wood style provided they can handle it, extend the use of Izanagi if you got some Sharingan on you...it's basically a must have for any OP character. So long as you got some of Hashi's wood in you, you can pull off any number of deus ex machinas with little to no actual effort in the writing.

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    • that or having ootsutsuki clan chakra lvls, being a bijuu/jinchu, or senjutsu.

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    • You need to have a LARGE portion of your body be made of Hashi cells(Zetsus), or have a Hashi face on your body in order to have Wood Release(Danzo, Edo Madara). So having his cells in you does not automatically give you Wood Release.

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    • QuakingStar wrote: You need to have a LARGE portion of your body be made of Hashi cells(Zetsus), or have a Hashi face on your body in order to have Wood Release(Danzo, Edo Madara). So having his cells in you does not automatically give you Wood Release.

      (cough) Yamato

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    • His entire bodies DNA was overwritten so he doesn't count... I guess Zetsu's technically don't count either then.

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    • How was it overwritten, he didn't suddenly turn into Hashirama.

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    • Starscream1998 wrote: How was it overwritten, he didn't suddenly turn into Hashirama.

      The manga isn't very clear on this, but apparently the DNA got spliced in. IE part of Yamato's DNA is hashirama DNA.

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    • Kishimoto: clearly did well on his science test back in school.

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    • Starscream1998 wrote: Kishimoto: clearly did well on his science test back in school.

      It's a show on ninja with magic. Science would only ruin that.

      Though Kishimoto did get things right like Kakashi and Obito sharing a blood type.

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    • I know, I know I'm joking.

      Really...well isn't that...interesting.

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    • yeah. like, I kinda quit on trying to be specific with these types of things. anime writers and drawers aren't scientists so...

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    • Oh well, logic is overrated anyway.

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    • lol fuck logic!!! that's why ice cream is my favorite calorie-free, salty, warm food!!

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    • Yeah how dare these mangaka's and animators make up stuff in the universes they made sheesh

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    • fuck yeah. imagination is for faggots and people that have dreams and shit... screw that.

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    • Lorenzo.r.1st wrote: yeah. like, I kinda quit on trying to be specific with these types of things. anime writers and drawers aren't scientists so...

      Trying to add realism to a series about Magic Ninja would create way more problems than the realism itself is worth. It would also create a cascade of problems.

      Logic in series with magic is overrated. It can be done (Prince of Thorns basically did Magiscience, so did The Name of the Wind), but more often than not the expectation of logic causes people to look for it in places it was never meant to be.

      Harry potter for instance is a very fun book series to read, but please don't think too much about it, you'll only ruin it for yourself. It was never really meant to be logical, it was meant to be whacky (or "magical").

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    • It's why I never understood people who measure Manga characters with Math and Science especially in vs videos. Here's the truth, the character who wins is the one the author wants to win trying to use science in a fictional universe is like trying to squeeze blood out of a rock you just look like a total moron and nothing is accomplished. Granted, some people genuinely just have fun with calculating Manga/Anime and analysing their strength and things like that and they're alright but it's the ones who go around stating their calculations as fact.

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    • yeah, if u take saitama's (from one-punch man) moon jump, u can see that ONE drew a trail behind him, when he was jumping back to earth, but that impossible, since that trail would've only been created if the moon had the same conditions as earth (same gravity, atmosphere, etc), even though the moon is a semi-vacuumed space, which would've made that trail impossible. but then take some of those psycho fans, that say that's just cuz their moon is different from ours... yeah, I've quit a while ago...

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    • Saitama is quite literally a badass middle finger to the anime trope of long hair = more power as well as just casually defying science.

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    • that's why I read for the laughs.

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    • Yeah, give me One Punch Man over Tokyo Ghoul, AoT, parasyte or any of that other depressing crap. Seriously, if I wanted to be depressed I'd listen to the news.

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    • lol.. yeah, ur gonna kill urself in at least 10 years. prolly gonna kill someone else before that.

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    • Nah, no need to bring anyone else into the picture here.

      "I'm the one that's got to die when it's time for me to die, so let me live my life the way I want to.” - Jimi Hendrix.

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    • or "alahu wakbar!!!"... looks familiar?

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    • Yeah going back to the OP Hashi is basically Genghis Khan because his DNA is basically in pretty much everyone or everyone of relevance...except Yamato nobody cares about him.

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    • Lorenzo.r.1st wrote: yeah, if u take saitama's (from one-punch man) moon jump, u can see that ONE drew a trail behind him, when he was jumping back to earth, but that impossible, since that trail would've only been created if the moon had the same conditions as earth

      It's a trail of moon dust/debris, kicked up by Saitama's jump.

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    • One Punch Man =/= real world physics people

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    • Starscream1998 wrote: One Punch Man =/= real world physics people

      I know, but in this case there is a perfectly reasonable explanation. No need to say "it's illogical" when it's logical.

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    • Since when did any of us visit the moon exactly?

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    • Hashirama simply has better DNA than Naruto, Madara, and Sasuke.. by far. Some people are blessed with the best genetics, some aren't.

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    • yeah. look at me? I have three arms cuz I am a more evolved human (true story)

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    • I miss the days when Naruto was about effort over genetics but I guess Kishimoto screwed that up.

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    • Starscream1998 wrote: I miss the days when Naruto was about effort over genetics but I guess Kishimoto screwed that up.

      It never really was. Effort + Genetics beats effort alone. Haku's genetics and Sasuke's genetics already made them superior to Naruto.

      Effort beats genetics alone, but effort + genetics beats just effort.

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    • What about naruto genetics makes him inferior?? Physically he is one of the strongest shinobi, without artificial means such as weightlifting. I am certain he is naturally stronger than Minato, sasuke, maybe even hashirama, I'm not talking about ninjutsu just base physical strength. And this also depends on genetics, he is also coordinated early on kuruma just messed with him, with the proper tutor he could have even been more intelligent, I don't see where exactly he falls short genetically. The wood release could simply be due to naruto having kuruma to rely on rather than just himself in which case he never got pushed to his limits to discover the full potential of his body without kuruma as a failsafe.

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    • Thekillman wrote:

      Starscream1998 wrote: I miss the days when Naruto was about effort over genetics but I guess Kishimoto screwed that up.

      It never really was. Effort + Genetics beats effort alone. Haku's genetics and Sasuke's genetics already made them superior to Naruto.

      Effort beats genetics alone, but effort + genetics beats just effort.

      Um no, Naruto beat Haku and near the end of Part 1 Sasuke got green with envy over Naruto's development. The fact is Kishi completely forgot what made Naruto so attractive in the first place and mutated the theme of overcoming the odds to achieve dreams to all this reincarnation/prophecy/destiny BS.

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    • Starscream1998 wrote: Um no, Naruto beat Haku and near the end of Part 1 Sasuke got green with envy over Naruto's development.

      And how did he beat Haku? With the single strongest demon in existence. It's how naruto got his power. It also nicely shows that pre-existing power + effort beats effort alone, since Naruto did have immense power, he just sucked at using it.

      Kishimoto doesn't really seem to like Aesops since every time we get one he quickly deconstructs it. The villains put in some of the most effort in the series (Nagato worked hard for decades for his village and dream, obito worked for years to implement the plan, Madara worked for decades to achieve his power), yet they lost.

      People with effort (most of Konoha, but also most of K11) lost to people with effort and genes (Sasuke, Neji for instance) and got eclipsed by people with effort, genes and smarts (Minato, Itachi, Madara, you name it).

      The closest thing to Aesops that we get are:

      -While power is great to achieve your dreams, unless you share your dream your empire will crumble (Kaguya, Madara, Obito).

      -Just genes, effort or smarts isn't enough. Ideally one has a bit of everything. But the more power one has, the less dependent one becomes, and the more power one has the more they'll depend on just that power. Or "when all you've got is a hammer"

      -the most powerful thing in the world is a dream, to share and make true. Power without dreams is meaningless (Obito), Dreams without sharing them is short lived (Madara). Sharing one's dream can make your legacy last far longer than your lifetime.

      -True power isn't raw power but the ability to understand others, to use their wisdom and power to add to your own, to correct yourself and carry on the lessons learned.

      and finally -If you expect the worst in people, you will see the worst in people. But in the end, if you just try to see the light, you'll always find a glimmer of hope, and every step to a better future is still a step, no matter how small.

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    • Ok man, gotta give your points that was really well said and I agree with your last couple of paragraphs. But the Nine tails power isn't the same as bloodlines or any of that other genetically enhanced tosh back then using the Nine Tails was serious business that could mean the end of Naruto's sanity and well-being. It was a power that had to be honed thus effort is still the main factor in power here. Part 1 I feel is better is because I get a sense that these abilities like the Sharingan and Byakugan may be OP but they need to be honed and trained first i.e. a sense of growth in the abilities of the characters.

      Part 2 gradually chucked this away with Naruto and Sasuke receiving power ups like it's Dragon Ball with no real sense of risk or any real exertion.

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    • A FANDOM user
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