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  • "Izuna was noted to be of prodigious talent, even by the battle-adept Uchiha clan's standards, and was one of the most powerful Uchiha in history being his brother Madara's equal before Madara acquired the Eternal Mangekyō Sharingan."


    I don't see anywhere it listed this, the only part of the databook that said izuna was equal to anyone was tobirama not madara. and if it did say he was equal to his brother, i'm sure it was before they awakened Mangekyou. If i'm correct, then please change that in the wiki part.

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    • Chapter 624 Page 8 , also confuses me that Izuna was equal.

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    • He was equal to MS Madara, not EMS Madara. Databooks confirm.

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    • QuakingStar wrote: He was equal to MS Madara, not EMS Madara. Databooks confirm.

      but the databook says izuna was the strongest next to madara. that's not equal. lol

      @killer. yeah that chptr shows it's always been hashi>madara>izuna even as kids.

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    • Not what the proper translation is. I know translators so don't go spreading that lie. That is utter bs.

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    • It's not that shocking that the brothers were equals with MS. Madara's real power came with/after the EMS.

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    • The EMS doesn't give you a power boost so what made him better then his MS self was that he gained perm eyesight and less tech strain which is easily noticeable.

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    • Izuna=MS madara,but EMS madara is stronger.

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    • QuakingStar wrote: The EMS doesn't give you a power boost so what made him better then his MS self was that he gained perm eyesight and less tech strain which is easily noticeable.

      Well it's a lot easier to develop proper MS techniques (Like combining eye techniques with Susanoo) if you can use these techniques more than twice per eye. It also helps if you have eyesight left by the time your Susanoo manifests fully (meaning armored).

      In both Sasuke's and Itachi's case, they were nearly blind by the time they could really use their Susanoo. Itachi could barely use Tsukuyome and Amaterasu twice, and Sasuke's constant ability spamming robbed him of eyesight in months.

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    • He definetly could use amaterasu and tsukuyomi more than twice.

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    • QuakingStar wrote: Not what the proper translation is. I know translators so don't go spreading that lie. That is utter bs.

      idgaf who you "know", you're not kishimoto. now just link us where it says he's equal to izuna, that simple.

      > this should be the inaccurate manga translation http://i1300.photobucket.com/albums/ag85/Speed42503/Tobi2_zps19341431.png


      > this should be the VIZ translation http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-jFSuEuMnGS4/WCWQibihk2I/AAAAAAACl0Y/ueunHW6XZtMaM9L1DS7yQ7wIaW7WLlH4ACHM/s16000/0386-005.png

      > this databook info says that izuna is next to madara. The question is it accurate. because next to someone doesn't mean equal in power. http://i.imgur.com/hbGZcKU.jpg

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    • Kakashisologod1 wrote: He definitely could use amaterasu and tsukuyomi more than twice.

      In a row, i meant. He used Tsukuyome on Kakashi, then Sasuke. He uses Amaterasu to escape Jiraiya while Kisame calls him out on not overusing his eyes. In the fight against Sasuke he uses Tsukuyome once and Amaterasu twice.

      Itachi gives us data on safe use limits (twice per eye before serious downsides set in), Sasuke gives us an overall limit (Not clear how Susanoo factors into this regarding eye strain) of a dozen or so techniques, plus some unknown Susanoo time. Though Itachi uses a full susanoo once (meaning he did fully develop it), Sasuke was fighting with Susanoo for extended periods of time on several occasions. Also his eyesight wasn't fully gone like Itachi's, but it was quickly getting bad.

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    • Well as Thekillman said its really possible that they were equal during their MS days, but i never believed in that since there are some little things that puts Madara a little above Izuna for example.

      Chapter 624 Page 8, Chapter 625 Page 9, Chapter 624 Page 10, Also chapter 624 Page 11, Madara became leader of his clan, same goes for Hashirama. Chapter 623 Page 10.

      Now those things really make me wonder were they equal at the time, since as Sayian101 said next to some one and equal are not same things.

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    • Leader does not have to be the strongest person.

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    • You are right , but in Naruto verse that's the case most of the time. Especially here.

      isn't the case most of the time that Kage is greatest shinobi in village ?

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    • Leader is the one who people respect and who can choose the best options to win.Shikamaru was not stronger than say neji or naruto,yet he was the leader of that squad.

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    • Kakashisologod1 wrote: Leader is the one who people respect and who can choose the best options to win.Shikamaru was not stronger than say neji or naruto,yet he was the leader of that squad.

      At that time Shikamaru was the only chunin. Plus, i'm pretty sure Shikamaru is the only exception we really know of. So far the various Kage were all the strongest of their village: Hashirama was the strongest in the world, Tobirama was probably top 5, Hiruzen was touted to be the strongest of his equals, Minato was called a prodigy by many, but also probably the strongest of Konoha, Tsunade was a Sannin, a group of people equally strong as famous.

      Kakashi's power we don't know as Hokage, making his position unclear.

      So yea, most of the time the kage is the strongest of the village.

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    • Guy was stronger than tsunade,yet he was not a hokage.Also shikamaru was chunnin because of his brain,not power.

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    • Kakashisologod1 wrote: Guy was stronger than tsunade,yet he was not a hokage.Also shikamaru was chunnin because of his brain,not power.

      Guy's strength is heavily dependent on his use of gates. I don't think he'll beat Tsunade with anything less than the 7th, and those gates he can't keep up for very long.

      But again: exceptions. Most of the time, the leader is the strongest. Even with the 4th war alliance, the Hidden Cloud was the strongest, and the Raikage was probably the strongest of those Kage.

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    • Hidden cloud was the leader in the 4th war alliance duo to never using akatsuki.

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    • Kakashisologod1 wrote: Hidden cloud was the leader in the 4th war alliance duo to never using akatsuki.

      Yet they also were the strongest, both in village and Kage.

      It's a bit of a running theme that justice equals power. The Hokage that founded an era and instilled a sense of purpose into hundreds of thousands was also the strongest, whereas the people who were wrong tended to be strong, yet always weaker.

      You could argue endlessly whether in Naruto Might Makes Right or Right Makes Might, but it makes sense that in the fighting-oriented world, power also means the ability to impact the world, and the people who impact the world the most (for the better) get to be (Ho)Kage.

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    • 4 databook states that Izuna was equal only to MS Madara ,not because Ems Made Madara Stronger But because Madara got way stronger after that,he himself stated that to Hashirama in their Final battle.

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    • No, he said with Kurama he was much stronger.

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    • QuakingStar wrote: No, he said with Kurama he was much stronger.

      he only stated to Hashirama how much he changed after their last battle he never said it was thanks to kurama.

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    • I'll ask Seelentau to translate the page soon.

      Narutopwnu7 can you tell me what chapter and page that was on? I have the digital colored raws and I can show Seelentau the panel if he asks for it.

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    • QuakingStar
      QuakingStar removed this reply because:
      dbl post
      21:55, June 18, 2017
      This reply has been removed
    • Chapte 621 page 8 After Hashirama using quintuple Rashomom,Madara stat how much he changed since their last battle there is not mention of kyuuby whatsoever.

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    • Him changing does not equate to being stronger, but it can hint he changed his battle style vs Hashirama and learned some techs between then and the VotE battle.

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    • QuakingStar wrote: Him changing does not equate to being stronger, but it can hint he changed his battle style vs Hashirama and learned some techs between then and the VotE battle.

      And his thoughts on the world and plans.

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    • Since Tobirama was able to defeat Izuna and Izuna = MS Madara, is it safe to say Tobirama >= MS Madara?

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    • Hard to say seeing as we never really got to see Izuna do...well anything really besides get his gut sliced open by Tobirama. He got himself a nice pair of eyes for sure and he was always kinda shown in a light to be if not an equal than as close as you can be to an equal without actually being one to his brother back in the day. Still, if he can get suckered by Tobirama who is definitely below Hashirama and Madara's level...it leaves a lot to be desired. But in fairness to Izuna, he looked pretty dead worn out during his last fight so maybe he's closer to Tobirama's level.

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    • Alright so is he equal or next to ?

      is this from fourth Databook http://imgur.com/hbGZcKU ?

      I really don't understand that Izuna was equal to his older brother.Am not saying that is not possible for them to be equal , but the whole thing of Madara trying to protect Izuna doesn't make sense then.

      Am really curious about this.

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    • I find it kind of impossible to imagine anyone is an equal to Madara...except Sasuke after some BS Six Paths upgrades and that waste of space Kaguya. I think the only one who is legitimately shown to be an equal and stronger than him is Hashirama. I don't think Kishi really put in enough thought into Izuna as a character to really decide if he's Madara's equal as he was kind of just a bland, stereotypical uchiha who looked like Sasuke and had Mangekyo. His only real contribution is his impact on Madara and his eyes which Madara would later evolve to Rinnegan.

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    • Manga made it clear with MS they were equals. Tobirama was stronger than MS Izuna, but not by some large margin.

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    • lol if tobirama was stronger than izuna and izuna was equal to MS Madara that would mean that Tobirama was stronger than Hashirama when the manga cleary stated the other way around.

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    • Narutopwnu7 wrote: lol if tobirama was stronger than izuna and izuna was equal to MS Madara that would mean that Tobirama was stronger than Hashirama when the manga cleary stated the other way around.

      This statement makes no sense. Just because Tobirama is stronger than Izuna who is equal to MS Madara doesn't make Tobirama stronger than Hashirama. Hashirama was stronger than Madara.

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    • Rachin123 wrote:

      Narutopwnu7 wrote: lol if tobirama was stronger than izuna and izuna was equal to MS Madara that would mean that Tobirama was stronger than Hashirama when the manga cleary stated the other way around.

      This statement makes no sense. Just because Tobirama is stronger than Izuna who is equal to MS Madara doesn't make Tobirama stronger than Hashirama. Hashirama was stronger than Madara.

      the difference between Madara and hashirama was very small though,at leats databook 4 claims that both of them were nearly equal. But of course the databook is refering to Ems Madara.

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    • @narutopwnuwnu7 which would mean that DB4 has no use here...we are comparing MS madara to hashi,not EMS madara.

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    • alright so @QuakingStar you keep saying its proven by Data book and Manga that they were equal , which is fine , that's your theory. But you claim it as an fact do you have a link from Manga or Data book that is correctly translated and claims that Izuna is equal to his older brother. Since you said yourself you know translators so give link or something.

      Am really curious to know is it equal or next to.

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    • QuakingStar wrote: Manga made it clear with MS they were equals. Tobirama was stronger than MS Izuna, but not by some large margin.

      Seems about right, well it's not like anyone really cares about Izuna as a character anyway.

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    • Starscream1998 wrote:

      QuakingStar wrote: Manga made it clear with MS they were equals. Tobirama was stronger than MS Izuna, but not by some large margin.

      Seems about right, well it's not like anyone really cares about Izuna as a character anyway.

      I do!!!xd

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    • Have fun with that.

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    • Killer723 wrote: alright so @QuakingStar you keep saying its proven by Data book and Manga that they were equal , which is fine , that's your theory. But you claim it as an fact do you have a link from Manga or Data book that is correctly translated and claims that Izuna is equal to his older brother. Since you said yourself you know translators so give link or something.

      Am really curious to know is it equal or next to.

      You do realize that you can go to Izuna's page to find the reference?

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    • the databook says next to is that the same thing of being equal?because the same page from the databook claims that Izuna was equal to Tobirama.

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    • @rachin123 all am seeing there is equal both on Izuna page and Madara page. But http://imgur.com/hbGZcKU

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    • "Next to" could mean equal and considering how it is explained that Izuna was "next to Madara in ability (true power, force)", it supports it.

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    • Hashirama is stronger than Madara?

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    • Dongkog wrote: Hashirama is stronger than Madara?

      EMS madara yeah,probably rinnegan madara too,since he won vs EDO madara.

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    • A FANDOM user
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