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  • Rachin123
    Rachin123 closed this thread because:
    Too long
    19:08, April 3, 2017

    I've been hearing that alot of people here believe that Kaguya is stronger than Momoshiki, I'm going to introduce three arguments, and here what you guys think about them.

    1. People are saying that Momoshiki looks weak, well the Kage had 10 years for a threat they believed to be greater than Kaguya, so obviously they would be prepared for those two, however as shown in the manga they were not able to inflict any damage on Momoshiki unless Sasuke helped. Which just goes to show how strong he really is, even though the Kage were supposedly prepeared, some people would say that they were never shown training, but why would they just sit and hope for the best if they know what a Kaguya level threat can do. I say a decade because that is the amount of time Sasuke spent away from his family, and that's why Sarada never met him.

    2. The second argument is that people do not realize how much stronger Naruto and Sasuke have gotten, Sasuke fully mastered his rinnegan, and Naruto got Kurama's other half, both are significant boosts to their power even though they were weakened prior to the fight.

    3. Lastly why would Kaguya be afraid of people that she is capable of handling. She has abnormal powers, yet even with those she preferred to kill her children rather than stop building her army, to fight them. This amount of fear, requires them to be out of her control, she has many taijutsu attacks that she could have used, but instead she cowered and decided to kill her children instead of not building an army. How fearful she was of their arrival proves how strong they must be.

    With that in mind, I believe that Momoshiki would win as even Kaguya, the pregenetor of chakra fears him, prior to Kinshiki's absorption, imagine after.

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    • kaguya with closed eyes and one hand win.

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    • People fail to understand why the Zetsu army was even created by Kaguya to deal with Momoshiki. White Zetsu can copy people down to their chakra and bloodlines. If just 1 Zetsu touched Momoshiki, they could replicate his abilities and be nearly on par with him in terms of abilities. But on another note, Momoshiki can simply convert a Zetsu into a chakra edible and eat it before gaining it's abilities. Once that occurs, Momoshiki will completely flip the script and quite literally have the upper hand in all cases. If he went around and began converting all of the Zetsu into chakra edibles, he could even gain Kaguya's abilities if just once of those zetsu touched her. Momoshiki's ability to replicate the abilities of others is what makes him so fearsome.

      I'm not saying he'd win or lose, but he'd definitely give Kaguya a real battle.

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    • Actually, there's no reason to believe White Zetsu can replicate the person's abilities in the first place. The only features they demonstrated are copying of the appearance and chakra, but nothing more. Moreover, if Zetsu were capable of that, they would be more of a tool in the FSWW where their efforts were focused only on infiltration and diversions, yet a complete replication of abilities could've turned them into a military force on the jonin/Kage level akin to Kabuto's reanimations had they copied powerful enough shinobi, while there were quite a lot of them. It never happened, so I severely doubt Zetsu can copy such god-level persons like Kaguya or Momoshiki even partially.

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    • lol a decade. the first time we hear of momoshiki and such, is in the gaiden arc thingy. sarada appears to be 9 or 10 y/o. if she is 12/13 as genin, I wouldn't say a decade passed. that's the main thing that u are wrong about. and I do think Naruto has some of he 9 bijuu's chakra. he doesn't have enough to even go into his juubi chakra mode, though like in the war... and imo, half of kurama (his kage form, who has both kurama's, who are, each, 3-4 bijuu lvl, but lack some most of the other bijuu's chakra, which would him 6-8 bijuu lvl, without his psms combined) is weaker than all other 8 bijuu combined (his vote2 form, who lacked half of kurama, who was at 3-4 bijuu lvl, which means that having the chakra all the other bijuu is better than having another kurama, and almost no 8 bijuu's chakra), so by logic, he, as a kage, rusty or not, would still be weaker than his vote2 form.

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    • naruto has all the bijju's chakra (he's the meeting place for every of them for anything, this means even to share chakra again) that's why hagoromo told kurama to stay with naruto (cannon material) some may say that when yin kurama gave naruto his last portion of chakra, kurama wasn't with other bijjus there as they were not seeing but after naruto and sasuke cutted their arms they both freed everyone from IT (all bijju's chakra and rinnengan need to do that) which means naruto has them, also chakra itself regenerates and there are 15 years since naruto hasn't used their chakra so it by now should have been multiplied

      sorry for the speculation as this is a versus board but i saw it be needed

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    • Lorenzo.r.1st wrote: lol a decade. the first time we hear of momoshiki and such, is in the gaiden arc thingy. sarada appears to be 9 or 10 y/o. if she is 12/13 as genin, I wouldn't say a decade passed. that's the main thing that u are wrong about. and I do think Naruto has some of he 9 bijuu's chakra. he doesn't have enough to even go into his juubi chakra mode, though like in the war... and imo, half of kurama (his kage form, who has both kurama's, who are, each, 3-4 bijuu lvl, but lack some most of the other bijuu's chakra, which would him 6-8 bijuu lvl, without his psms combined) is weaker than all other 8 bijuu combined (his vote2 form, who lacked half of kurama, who was at 3-4 bijuu lvl, which means that having the chakra all the other bijuu is better than having another kurama, and almost no 8 bijuu's chakra), so by logic, he, as a kage, rusty or not, would still be weaker than his vote2 form.

      Oh my God, not the Naruto bijuu talk again...He uses in both Gaiden and Boruto the same mode that he had when he fought Kaguya, except he doesn't have the Truth-Seeking Balls anymore.And yes, he does have chakra from all the bijuus, otherwise it would contradict the manga. I think that in Boruto, both him and Sasuke are at their peak.

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    • no the modes are very different.... u guys do know that spsm and all the bijuu's chakra are two entirely different powers right? he uses spsm, not the bijuu's chakra. its very different... he doesn't use the bijuu's chakra at all during gaiden and boruto, so yes, the bijuu talk again. deal with it. and just cuz u think they are at their peak, it doent mean its true.. sorry man, the world doesn't work like that. its called an opinion. u have urs, and I have mine.

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    • Lorenzo.r.1st wrote: lol a decade. the first time we hear of momoshiki and such, is in the gaiden arc thingy. sarada appears to be 9 or 10 y/o. if she is 12/13 as genin, I wouldn't say a decade passed. that's the main thing that u are wrong about. and I do think Naruto has some of he 9 bijuu's chakra. he doesn't have enough to even go into his juubi chakra mode, though like in the war... and imo, half of kurama (his kage form, who has both kurama's, who are, each, 3-4 bijuu lvl, but lack some most of the other bijuu's chakra, which would him 6-8 bijuu lvl, without his psms combined) is weaker than all other 8 bijuu combined (his vote2 form, who lacked half of kurama, who was at 3-4 bijuu lvl, which means that having the chakra all the other bijuu is better than having another kurama, and almost no 8 bijuu's chakra), so by logic, he, as a kage, rusty or not, would still be weaker than his vote2 form.

      If you paid attention to the panels when we see them talking about it the borders were black meaning it was a flashback, so it was a decade, Naruto has been using his six paths sage mode throughout all his latest fights except the last naruto the movie. He has kurama who at half was as strong as 5 bijuu proven by the bijuu dama collision so full kurama would be 10 bijuu lvl, + the six paths chakra which we know he still has as the sun symbol shows on his plams in the boruto manga, and his eye markings are the same.

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    • Lorenzo.r.1st wrote: no the modes are very different.... u guys do know that spsm and all the bijuu's chakra are two entirely different powers right? he uses spsm, not the bijuu's chakra. its very different... he doesn't use the bijuu's chakra at all during gaiden and boruto, so yes, the bijuu talk again. deal with it. and just cuz u think they are at their peak, it doent mean its true.. sorry man, the world doesn't work like that. its called an opinion. u have urs, and I have mine.

      Please, don't try to act all smart and cool, especially since you're wrong.It's the exact same mode...not even once since the war was even brought up the fact that Naruto might have lost parts if his powers series-wise.You are just assuming all of this based on what? When was it even hinted that he lost his mode? Also, even on this wikia it is said that there is no difference.On what are matter are you assuming all of this?

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    • Kaguya wins.Naruto and sasuke with hags chakra couldnt seal her but needed help from DMS kakashi DMS obito and sakura.Kaguya mid diff AT BEST.

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    • Kakashisologod wrote: Kaguya wins.Naruto and sasuke with hags chakra couldnt seal her but needed help from DMS kakashi DMS obito and sakura.Kaguya mid diff AT BEST.

      But here is my question to you, can you justify Kaguya's fear of Momo and Kin, let alone Momo with Kin absorbed?

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    • No feats,its like saying hiruzen is the strongest hokage.

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    • Kakashisologod wrote: Kaguya wins.Naruto and sasuke with hags chakra couldnt seal her but needed help from DMS kakashi DMS obito and sakura.Kaguya mid diff AT BEST.

      i agree thus kaguya could kill them on beginning , but plot helped to survive.

      anyway if she goes hand to hand combat with Momo one stab with bone he is done for , thus he got raped by naruto and sasuke while kaguya use to handle 5000 clones , dodge sasuke , and yet how can Momo do something if she is immune to ninjutsu

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    • Kakashisologod wrote: No feats,its like saying hiruzen is the strongest hokage.

      You still dodged the question because the only justification for her fear is that they are stronger than her, but only together, separately they can challenge her but she wold win mid-diff

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    • Mobzzzzz5 wrote:

      Kakashisologod wrote: No feats,its like saying hiruzen is the strongest hokage.

      You still dodged the question because the only justification for her fear is that they are stronger than her, but only together, separately they can challenge her but she wold win mid-diff

      I didnt escape the question,kishi wanted more money so he made Boruto movie and made momoshiki stronger than her(witch he wasnt).Thats the only reason people consider her weaker than momoshiki.U havent answered either.How are sasuke and naruto stronger than kaguya now as adults,when they had HAGS chakra couldnt seal her.Only when kakashi obito and sakura helped them could they done something like that,so kaguya can easily beat Momokinshiki version.

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    • @Kakashi I apologize I was not aware that you were asking a question, there are two reasons for that, during their fight with Kaguya, they had not fully mastered their abilities, Sasuke more so than Naruto, he didn't even know he could fly until the lava dimension, he was only able to use the kurama avatar during his fight with sasuke, so lack of mastery is one reason. Then sasuke hadn't mastered his powers either which is stated multiple times by him and even Kurama. The other reason is that the have gotten stronger, Sasuke now posseses his rinnegan's full potential, shown by the fact that he can now even travel through dimensions, and use his abilities with comfort. Naruto has gained the other half of Kurama, while he never lost the other tailed beasts' chakra, or the six paths chakra, so he only got rusty, but he got stronger. So they exceeded the kaguya level as their abilities improved. If you look at the fight, Naruto was even able to swap hands with kaguya, if he got stronger by so much what stops him from beating her?

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    • Mobzzzzz5 wrote: @Kakashi I apologize I was not aware that you were asking a question, there are two reasons for that, during their fight with Kaguya, they had not fully mastered their abilities, Sasuke more so than Naruto, he didn't even know he could fly until the lava dimension, he was only able to use the kurama avatar during his fight with sasuke, so lack of mastery is one reason. Then sasuke hadn't mastered his powers either which is stated multiple times by him and even Kurama. The other reason is that the have gotten stronger, Sasuke now posseses his rinnegan's full potential, shown by the fact that he can now even travel through dimensions, and use his abilities with comfort. Naruto has gained the other half of Kurama, while he never lost the other tailed beasts' chakra, or the six paths chakra, so he only got rusty, but he got stronger. So they exceeded the kaguya level as their abilities improved. If you look at the fight, Naruto was even able to swap hands with kaguya, if he got stronger by so much what stops him from beating her?

      Umm,hags chakra>>>>>>>>trumps everything they got.Naruto only cut her arm duo to her being exhausted.

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    • @mobzzzz, I read the panels yesterday man. u should read them as well. the bijuu dama collision was between only 4 bijuu. read the manga again. and that's the max of bijuu that half of kurama can handle. that means that full kurama is at least 8 bijuu lvl. if u add 2 more bijuu, kurama loses. by the way, do u read my comments? his spsm (the mix of kurama/sm iris markings0 isn't the same thing as his chakra mode that got him his tsb (the one that had the tt seal symbol on the back). just look it up, man, since u there are quite a few people who don't seem to believe me. @vlado, im not trying to be smart and cool. I don't need to. I already am. now, it seems that u didn't read my comment correctly, so im gonna explain it to u: his spsm (Im repeating the same thing I wrote on the above part of this comment) is something he got from using hago's chakra with his sm, and the chakra cloak he got, was from using all the chakra from the bijuu's that he got from obito into kurama's cloak, and making it into a pseudo-ttj chakra cloak. yes, it is that simple, smartass. now, im gonna repeat: just look up six paths sage mode on the wiki, and u will find ur answer. and I don't assume. im not as stupid as u are, since u are the one assuming things on ur own, here and now. the only mode he uses after the war, for sure, is his spsm. he doesn't have the cloak to he used against madara, kaguya, and sasuke. he has the 9 bijuu's chakra, but not the cloak. ... ps, guess I burned both of yall now, didn't I? lol

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    • @Lorenzo.r.1st Which Tailed Beast Ball collision you're talking about?

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    • from my point of view, he seems to be talking bout the first time Naruto went to km, and countered 4 bijuu bombs from 2 tails, 3 tails, 5 tails, and 6 tails (the other 2 were sealed away).

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    • @Lorenzo.r.1st Ah, you mean the ones in chapter 571, where Matatabi(Two-Tails), Isobu(Three-Tails), Kokuō(Five-Tails), Saiken(Six-Tails) and Chōmei(Seven-Tails) first fired seperately and then later combined their Tailed Beast Balls against Naruto and Kurama.

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    • yup. well, not me, one of the guys was saying that full kurama was stronger than even more than 10 bijuus, and I was like "half of kurama was fighting only up to 5 bijuu, with killer bee's help, but by himself he was at 4 bjuu lvl, since all the other bijuu were holding back anyways". he doenst seem to get it. if kurama at his full form, he would be 8 bijuu, but only counting with the bijuu he fought against (the ones controlled by obito), and not counting gyuki, who was 2 bijuu lvl. I think its too complicated so...

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    • Ravenlot 27 wrote: Actually, there's no reason to believe White Zetsu can replicate the person's abilities in the first place. The only features they demonstrated are copying of the appearance and chakra, but nothing more. Moreover, if Zetsu were capable of that, they would be more of a tool in the FSWW where their efforts were focused only on infiltration and diversions, yet a complete replication of abilities could've turned them into a military force on the jonin/Kage level akin to Kabuto's reanimations had they copied powerful enough shinobi, while there were quite a lot of them. It never happened, so I severely doubt Zetsu can copy such god-level persons like Kaguya or Momoshiki even partially.

      White Zetsu copied Neji's Byakugan through the Parasite Clone technique, even going as far as copying his Byakugan. The technique allows them to copy the abilities of others, though on a less powerful scale. So YES, they can replicate his abilities, though they will be much weaker.

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    • Princeharris1993 wrote: People fail to understand why the Zetsu army was even created by Kaguya to deal with Momoshiki. White Zetsu can copy people down to their chakra and bloodlines. If just 1 Zetsu touched Momoshiki, they could replicate his abilities and be nearly on par with him in terms of abilities. But on another note, Momoshiki can simply convert a Zetsu into a chakra edible and eat it before gaining it's abilities. Once that occurs, Momoshiki will completely flip the script and quite literally have the upper hand in all cases. If he went around and began converting all of the Zetsu into chakra edibles, he could even gain Kaguya's abilities if just once of those zetsu touched her. Momoshiki's ability to replicate the abilities of others is what makes him so fearsome.

      I'm not saying he'd win or lose, but he'd definitely give Kaguya a real battle.

      @Princeharris1993
      Momoshiki apparently cannot absorb any1 with chakra edible only okutsukis. Since he couldn't absorb naruto using it. which implies he cannot absorb humans. And zetsus are humans who no longer have their own chakra which means they are ideal for handling momoshiki who absorbs chakra.
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    • The gokage didn't prepare for those twos arrivals at all. In fact, when sasuke thought there was something that frighten kaguya, the Kage merely called it conjecture. While, it is true that sasuke and Naruto are strong, they needed Kakashi(who had some of the most OP jutsu at that time) to win. Even, hagoromo said it wasn't likely they would've succeeded without kakashi.

      Naruto and sasuke defeated momoshiki without too much difficulty. Momoshiki only got the drop on them, because that idiot scientist powered him up again. Yes, I know they're stronger as adults but them needing dms kakashi to beat kaguya, has to say something?

      Momoshiki isn't close to kaguya's strength either. He however can counter her vacuum fists at least. The only way i see momoshiki wining is it if he can turn kaguya into a chakra pill. Which could be extremely hard. Kaguya can easily win if she switches to the gravity dimension and fires an ash bone through hirsaka yometsu, with it appearing above a pinned down momoshiki.

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    • OnlineLurker wrote: The only way i see momoshiki wining is it if he can turn kaguya into a chakra pill. Which could be extremely hard. Kaguya can easily win if she switches to the gravity dimension and fires an ash bone through hirsaka yometsu, with it appearing above a pinned down momoshiki.

      Momoshiki 's chakra edible jutsu can be easily countered by Kaguya absorbing it. And two remember she was talking about 3 okutsuki not two when she talked with hagoromo abt them. So their is extra okutsuki who was supposed to fight kaguya at same time. so we may never know how strong of threat she was expecting and it could be she was traumatized before absorbing chakra tree which is why we she feared them too much.
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    • @Namikazenaruto9 how can she absorb being coverted into a chakra pill? That third otsutsuki was in the filler arc, i highly doubt that person will show up in canon.

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    • OnlineLurker wrote: @Namikazenaruto9 how can she absorb being coverted into a chakra pill? That third otsutsuki was in the filler arc, i highly doubt that person will show up in canon.

      using pretha path I guess? Because BZ clearly said in manga that she can absorb any kind of jutsu.
      It could be that guy might not show up or he may come up in Boruto arc. Regardless I pointed out she was expecting more okutsukis.
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    • That chakra pill conversion ability is kinda odd. It like sucks you into the users palm to become a chakra pill or something. I guess, kaguya could resist getting sucked in though. I was just thinking of a way that momoshiki can beat her. I do wish there's more powerful beings out there, but so far only momoshiki & kinshiki have been stated to be the threats.

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    • Lorenzo.r.1st wrote: @mobzzzz, I read the panels yesterday man. u should read them as well. the bijuu dama collision was between only 4 bijuu. read the manga again. and that's the max of bijuu that half of kurama can handle. that means that full kurama is at least 8 bijuu lvl. if u add 2 more bijuu, kurama loses. by the way, do u read my comments? his spsm (the mix of kurama/sm iris markings0 isn't the same thing as his chakra mode that got him his tsb (the one that had the tt seal symbol on the back). just look it up, man, since u there are quite a few people who don't seem to believe me.

      You are wrong about both things because there was the 2,3,5,6, and 7 tails making the bijuu dama, and the spsm does not work that way.

      Kakashisologod wrote:

      Umm,hags chakra>>>>>>>>trumps everything they got.Naruto only cut her arm duo to her being exhausted. </div> That is true but she was exhausted by Naruto and Sasuke so that is invalid.

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    • Not naruto and sasuke,but obito naruto and sasuke.

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    • Kakashisologod wrote: Not naruto and sasuke,but obito naruto and sasuke.

      Actually all obito did is bring Sasuke back from the other dimension

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    • U call that all?He won them the fight.

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    • Kakashisologod wrote: U call that all?He won them the fight.

      How so all he did was give Kakashi that DMS which allowed him to save Sakura and thats all

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    • Mobzzzzz5 wrote:

      Kakashisologod wrote: U call that all?He won them the fight.

      How so all he did was give Kakashi that DMS which allowed him to save Sakura and thats all

      Coughs returned sasuke back,who without they cant beat kaguya,gave kakashi DMS who blitzed kaguya coughs.

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    • Kakashisologod wrote:

      Mobzzzzz5 wrote:

      Kakashisologod wrote: U call that all?He won them the fight.

      How so all he did was give Kakashi that DMS which allowed him to save Sakura and thats all

      Coughs returned sasuke back,who without they cant beat kaguya,gave kakashi DMS who blitzed kaguya coughs.

      Ok all kakashi did was use raikiri on her, other wise he doesn't matter in terms of hurting Kaguya. I get what you are trying to say but this is indirect contribution to her exhaustion which does not count, especially for the one about sasuke. So if we really look at it Naruto and Sasuke were the ones that exhausted her directly, Kakashi hurt her when she was exhausted, but thats about it.

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    • Kaguya wasn't really exhausted when Kakashi hurt her. In fact, BZ stated she hadn't only recovered after absorbing more chakra from IT victims, but had also gained a boost in strength and speed. Only thanks to Kakashi, who disabled her right arm, she didn't have a chance to fire a bone at Naruto and had to rely on BZ and the portal.

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    • No one can counter the fear argument yet so Momoshiki is stronger until someone can disprove that

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    • That's just hype, it's not the first time hype has failed in this series.

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    • OnlineLurker wrote: That's just hype, it's not the first time hype has failed in this series.

      I would disagree, its just that the ninja were well prepared. It would not make sense for it to be false hype because Naruto and Sasuke have only gotten stronger, and the Kage had Around 10 years to prepare so...

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    • Did you even read my reply? No one really prepared for them. The gokage treated sasuke's concerns as a mere "guess". They said the enemy is too vague and sasuke was only investigating the whole thing, not preparing for a battle. Besides, sasuke told them about these concerns when he was an adult, not ten years ago or anything like that.

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    • LMAO the amount of times people hype naruto and sasuke is unreal.As adults they are weaker than they were at vs kaguya,YET they still couldnt beat her,but needed help.U are hyping naruto wayyy too much.

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    • Kakashisologod wrote: LMAO the amount of times people hype naruto and sasuke is unreal.As adults they are weaker than they were at vs kaguya,YET they still couldnt beat her,but needed help.U are hyping naruto wayyy too much.

      maybe you are hyping momoshiki too much. Regardless It's clear Kaguya was tougher than kimomoshiki, capable in any type of combat be it genjutsu, ninjutsu or taijutsu.

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    • Kakashisologod wrote: LMAO the amount of times people hype naruto and sasuke is unreal.As adults they are weaker than they were at vs kaguya,YET they still couldnt beat her,but needed help.U are hyping naruto wayyy too much.

      So even though they still have their six paths powers, and Sasuke mastered his rinnegan, and Naruto got Kurama's other half, they got weaker? That doesn't really make sense to me I don't know what other people think. I think you are confusing rustiness and weakness.

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    • Mobzzzzz5 wrote:

      Kakashisologod wrote: LMAO the amount of times people hype naruto and sasuke is unreal.As adults they are weaker than they were at vs kaguya,YET they still couldnt beat her,but needed help.U are hyping naruto wayyy too much.

      So even though they still have their six paths powers, and Sasuke mastered his rinnegan, and Naruto got Kurama's other half, they got weaker? That doesn't really make sense to me I don't know what other people think. I think you are confusing rustiness and weakness.

      There is also a fact that they lost hags chakra.@Namikazenaruto9 i actually agree with you,momoshiki loses hard.

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    • Kakashisologod wrote: There is also a fact that they lost hags chakra.@Namikazenaruto9 i actually agree with you,momoshiki loses hard.

      Actually they have not lost it, there is no proof that they lost it they just lost the seals that they needed to seal kaguya, and in the boruto manga, which is canon, it is shown that in spsm naruto still has the sun seal, and it would be illogical to say Naruto still has them, but Sasuke does not, there are many pointers towards them stil having it, unless you can prove that they don't then your point is invalid

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    • Boruto manga isnt kishis work and we have also seen naruto not having it in boruto movie.Its like saying i have 3 cookies and i eat them and i still have them.Thats what you are saying right now.

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    • For all those that don't know. Boruto the Manga is canon and Kishi is part of the Boruto team, so yes, Boruto is canon.

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    • Princeharris1993 wrote: For all those that don't know. Boruto the Manga is canon and Kishi is part of the Boruto team, so yes, Boruto is canon.

      How is he part of it when he has 0% in art and the way things will go?

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    • Mobzzzzz5 wrote: Actually they have not lost it, there is no proof that they lost it they just lost the seals that they needed to seal kaguya, and in the boruto manga, which is canon, it is shown that in spsm naruto still has the sun seal, and it would be illogical to say Naruto still has them, but Sasuke does not, there are many pointers towards them stil having it, unless you can prove that they don't then your point is invalid

      SPSM naruto lost the seal after sealing kaguya period. his hand no longer has that seal also going by Boruto series the "seals" is part of major power up in their transformation which implies naruto and sasuke might be weaker than the time they fought kaguya.

      Mobzzzzz5 wrote: No one can counter the fear argument yet so Momoshiki is stronger until someone can disprove that

      Fear argument was their to exaggerate momoshiki's power, to attract fans and so on but based on kimomoshiki's feats he loses hard against kaguya.
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    • Naruto's sun seal in the boruto manga was an art mistake, because it was removed in the volume later.

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    • Kaguya appears to have greater Chakra than other Otsutsukis. However maybe Kaguya feared them, as they already had Chakra from their world's God Tree. And thus could have absorbed her Chakra despite her's being stronger, having more knowledge of it. It also could be, that she couldn't accept any of her Chakra being taken by Momoshiki and sought to use a physical disposable army.

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    • Guys saying they lost the six paths power is saying that during their final fight they were weaker than before, because they had lost the seals. It's like saying Goku lost his god powers, which is illogical because he has the SSJGSS. The same thing with Naruto he still has the spsm proven by the eye mark that he has now during his spsm

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    • well he still miss true seeker orbs and chakra from other beast so i think he dosent have access to Six pats sage mode , only to his own Sage mode , my opinion i might be wrong i never used to wonder does he have it or not.

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    • Mobzzzzz5 wrote:

      1. People are saying that Momoshiki looks weak, well the Kage had 10 years for a threat they believed to be greater than Kaguya, so obviously they would be prepared for those two, however as shown in the manga they were not able to inflict any damage on Momoshiki unless Sasuke helped. Which just goes to show how strong he really is, even though the Kage were supposedly prepeared, some people would say that they were never shown training, but why would they just sit and hope for the best if they know what a Kaguya level threat can do. I say a decade because that is the amount of time Sasuke spent away from his family, and that's why Sarada never met him.

      Just because there are more powerful opponents out there does not mean everyone just gets a mind numbing boost from just training harder. If we're going by that logic, there should have been numerous hashirama and madara level ninja during the years when the senju and the uchiha were fighting and the first ninja war. But there weren't any, despite the fact that hashirama and madara were exponentially stronger than everyone else, no one was able to even come close to their level until about a century later when the sage gave naruto and sasuke his chakra. So even naruto and sasuke couldn't surpass madara and hashirama without the help of the sage. No amount of training can put you on the level of a ninja that has six paths chakra, it has never happened, unless one opens the 8th gate. The closest anyone has ever come was Hashirama and even he paled in comparison to the ninja with six paths chakra.

      Pre transformation Momoshiki is stronger than kinshiki and darui was fighting on par with him. Do you think Darui could do that to kaguya when even teen rinnegan sasuke failed to do it? Throughout the whole battle with kaguya, sasuke only managed to land 1 little hit on her and that was after she was exhausted.

      Mobzzzzz5 wrote:

      2. The second argument is that people do not realize how much stronger Naruto and Sasuke have gotten, Sasuke fully mastered his rinnegan, and Naruto got Kurama's other half, both are significant boosts to their power even though they were weakened prior to the fight.

      It doesn't matter how strong they've become, Kaguya had the whole ten tails minus half of kurama plus the chakra of the billions of people trapped in the infinite tsukuyomi. Full kurama pales in comparison to that. Kaguya also has the byakugan, and the powers of the sharingan and rinnegan plus the abilities of the rinnesharingan. That also trumps what sasuke has.

      Mobzzzzz5 wrote:

      3. Lastly why would Kaguya be afraid of people that she is capable of handling. She has abnormal powers, yet even with those she preferred to kill her children rather than stop building her army, to fight them. This amount of fear, requires them to be out of her control, she has many taijutsu attacks that she could have used, but instead she cowered and decided to kill her children instead of not building an army. How fearful she was of their arrival proves how strong they must be.

      It was never stated that kaguya feared momoshiki and kinshiki. Sasuke said she was building an army because of them. As far as I'm concerned, nothing in the lore clearly shows that they are stronger, yes kaguya was building an army but obviously she was preparing for more than momoshiki and kinshiki. I find it hard to believe that momoshiki and kinshiki are the only otsutsuki's out there, who else will pose a threat to naruto and sasuke if not for the otsutsuki's in the boruto series. Not to mention sasuke never finished telling naruto everything that was written on kaguya's scroll, it most probably has to do with the people she actually feared.

      Momoshiki after eating kinshiki died from a gigantic standard rasengan added to boruto's weak wind release rasengan, this rasengan was not enhanced by six paths senjutsu, it was not enhanced by kurama's chakra, it was not enhanced by naruto's wind release, it was just a humongous normal rasengan. Meanwhile, kaguya tanked the Tailed beast rasenshuriken which was enhanced by all those things plus various tailed beast chakra and there were 9 of nine and she wasn't even critically damaged.

      Kaguya can heal any damage kinshiki does to her but he can't. Thats probably the biggest factor in this fight and she obviously knows about his techniques so she won't be feeding him jutsus. She can also absorb all the jutsu he throws her way as well but her jutsu absorption is better defensively speaking because it acts on every part of her body. Whereas kinshiki has to absorb the jutsu through his hands to successfully defend against it. This means that if kaguya can create a diversion and manage to land an ash killing bone on kinshiki's body, then its curtains.

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    • @Mobzzz it says greater threat than kaguya but not stronger than kaguya,read before acussing others of how they are blind and arent reading.

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    • @Kakashi if theyu are a threat greater than her, and they know that she could wipe out an entire dimension, then they are bound to be stronger as their hax is clearly inneffective against taijustu, it's just that they knew what they were dealing with, and took care of it properly. @Lorenz: The kage neverf fought on par with momo, they got oneshotted by him, I specifically said after kins absorption, so he oneshotted the 5 kage, which proves his strength and speed boost.

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    • I wonder: was it kaguya who supposedly stated that they were a greater threat, or was it sasuke just presuming from her diaries? but this battle is like people who see saitama (momoshiki) fighting, and for some random reason, say that he is stronger than goku (kaguya). its basically the same thing.

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    • Sasuke had his reasons to say that way. I mean, almighty Kaguya designed an army despite handling all the wars by herself before, so it was logical to say Kaguya was fearful of the threat that was at least compared to her own power. Also, it's not hard to deduce that if Kaguya was preparing an army, this army must've had some purpose, because when BZ mentioned Kaguya's army to Naruto/Sasuke, it immediately raised the question "an army for what?".

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    • Lorenzo.r.1st wrote: I wonder: was it kaguya who supposedly stated that they were a greater threat, or was it sasuke just presuming from her diaries? but this battle is like people who see saitama (momoshiki) fighting, and for some random reason, say that he is stronger than goku (kaguya). its basically the same thing.

      I would completely disagree considering that Momoshiki is stronger than Kaguya considering the fact that she was so scared of his arrival that she considered killing her own children.

      Ravenlot 27 wrote: Sasuke had his reasons to say that way. I mean, almighty Kaguya designed an army despite handling all the wars by herself before, so it was logical to say Kaguya was fearful of the threat that was at least compared to her own power. Also, it's not hard to deduce that if Kaguya was preparing an army, this army must've had some purpose, because when BZ mentioned Kaguya's army to Naruto/Sasuke, it immediately raised the question "an army for what?".

      Exactly

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    • she wasn't scared though. she was "wary", its quite different. well, that how I would put it, anyways.

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    • Give up everyone,we showed him the proof that :There is a diffrence between greater threat and stronger and that adult sasuke and naruto<<<<<<<<hag chakra boosted naruto and sasuke.

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    • The official translation did say kaguya was "frighten" of something though.

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    • I agree, Momoshiki should be stronger specially after he ate Kinshiki. People seem to forget that Kinshiki was a confirmed planet buster. Scaling from the higher Naruto characters, this should put him AT LEAST relative to Naruto and Sasuke, and let's not forget that Kinshiki was giving Sasuke a hell of a good fight after he used a portion of his chakra to teleport to Kaguya's world, and then you pick Momoshiki who was stronger, and stack another Planet Buster into him. Don't know if in a fight Momoshiki would win though, he would have to deal with the Expansive Truth Seeking Orb + Kaguya's immortality. The main reason why people think Momoshiki is weaker then he is, is thanks to Boruto the Movie having limited time and not giving Momoshiki some really crazy feats, and of course that stupid Father-Son Rasengan screw-up.

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    • Momoshiki and kinishiki are not planet busters.

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    • he's talking bout that one book-thingy (not want to call @dziga stupid or anything like that) that was supposed to be the "buy my fish! its is the biggest and tastiest!" for the movie.. get my point? @dziga, he's not a confirmed planet buster, but they say he is an "world destroyer", which is a term used by Shakespeare in one of his books. they just want to make him cooler, that's all. well, its not that I don't like kinshiki, hes just very hard to scale. he got the best of 70 percent sharingan sasuke, but kinda lost to the two weakest kage in the show, whom sasuke could've beaten while weakened as well. see what I mean? if kinshiki were to go all out, his strongest attack would be, imo small country lvl. but u never know. they might just show us otherwise. and momo was at juubito lvl, maybe under, before absorbing kinshiki. I would say his powers were not multiplied by 2, but more like, multiplied by 1.5, after he absorbed kinshiki.... what do u think?

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    • Kinshiki is shinju trunk buster,but come on he cant destroy planets.

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    • did u even read my comment?

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    • ah if you people think that kinshiki beats kaguya , then please give a real fact or explanation how is he stronger , i mean sayin she was afraid of them ????? that dosent beat her no for a long shot. Kaguya has way better feats one shoot tehniques better taijutsu , space control and on top of that immortality.

      But then again kaguya was afraid of them she wanted to kill her own children. So thats your best statement?

      Sure then how he gonna take down kaguya somebody explain please.

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    • lol kaguya didn't want to kill hago or hamura anyways. she wanted their chakra, first off. read the manga. its funny, cuz she thought that hago and hamura were veery weak compared to her, and that they could be easily beaten... it didn't happen, now, did it? I don't believe in what that crazy ass bitch says. she said that they, momo and kinshiki, were dangerous to her, but its not like she ever even seen them fight before she got the fruit, or after that, for that matter. the "caution" she had for them, was probably something she developed before she had her powers, so it was more like someone being afraid of the sea as a 5 year old, but still being afraid of pools while being 30 years old.. its literally that simple.

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    • Lorenzo.r.1st wrote: did u even read my comment?

      Was talking to @Mobzzz

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    • Mobzzzzz5 wrote:

      if theyu are a threat greater than her, and they know that she could wipe out an entire dimension, then they are bound to be stronger as their hax is clearly inneffective against taijustu

      Being a bigger threat does not mean you're stronger, mosquitos are bigger threats than lions but they are not stronger than said lions. Kaguya would never wipe out the dimension the earth lies in. In chapter 679 page 13, Kaguya states to naruto and sasuke: "This place... This land is my precious nursery. I cannot let it be damaged any further" Then she takes them to another dimension to prevent any further damage to the earth. Whereas momoshiki and kinshiki don't care about the wellbeing of the planet and would lay waste to it without a second thought.

      Mobzzzzz5 wrote: @Lorenz: The kage neverf fought on par with momo, they got oneshotted by him, I specifically said after kins absorption, so he oneshotted the 5 kage, which proves his strength and speed boost.

      You're wrong, watch the movie again or read the manga, boruto chapter 7 pages 34-37. Darui was fighting on par with pre-transformation momoshiki. In the boruto movie on kissanime, at exactly 1:14:12 mark Darui clashes on par with momoshiki. Again, do you think Darui could do that to kaguya when even teen rinnegan sasuke couldn't do it?

      Tell me exactly using manga and movie facts not assumptions, how momoshiki would get the win over kaguya when he died from a normal humongous rasengan while kaguya tanked 9 tailed beast rasenshurikens. She can regenerate while he can't, she has perfect susanoo busting taijutsu and she has more chakra than he does. So tell me exactly how momoshiki can get the win despite all that.

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    • Lorenzo VonMT wrote: You're wrong, watch the movie again or read the manga, boruto chapter 7 pages 34-37. Darui was fighting on par with pre-transformation momoshiki. In the boruto movie on kissanime, at exactly 1:14:12 mark Darui clashes on par with momoshiki. Again, do you think Darui could do that to kaguya when even teen rinnegan sasuke couldn't do it?

      Tell me exactly using manga and movie facts not assumptions, how momoshiki would get the win over kaguya when he died from a normal humongous rasengan while kaguya tanked 9 tailed beast rasenshurikens. She can regenerate while he can't, she has perfect susanoo busting taijutsu and she has more chakra than he does. So tell me exactly how momoshiki can get the win despite all that.

      Exactly..
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    • Lorenzo VonMT wrote:

      Mobzzzzz5 wrote:

      if theyu are a threat greater than her, and they know that she could wipe out an entire dimension, then they are bound to be stronger as their hax is clearly inneffective against taijustu

      Being a bigger threat does not mean you're stronger, mosquitos are bigger threats than lions but they are not stronger than said lions. Kaguya would never wipe out the dimension the earth lies in. In chapter 679 page 13, Kaguya states to naruto and sasuke: "This place... This land is my precious nursery. I cannot let it be damaged any further" Then she takes them to another dimension to prevent any further damage to the earth. Whereas momoshiki and kinshiki don't care about the wellbeing of the planet and would lay waste to it without a second thought.

      Mobzzzzz5 wrote: @Lorenz: The kage neverf fought on par with momo, they got oneshotted by him, I specifically said after kins absorption, so he oneshotted the 5 kage, which proves his strength and speed boost.

      You're wrong, watch the movie again or read the manga, boruto chapter 7 pages 34-37. Darui was fighting on par with pre-transformation momoshiki. In the boruto movie on kissanime, at exactly 1:14:12 mark Darui clashes on par with momoshiki. Again, do you think Darui could do that to kaguya when even teen rinnegan sasuke couldn't do it?

      Tell me exactly using manga and movie facts not assumptions, how momoshiki would get the win over kaguya when he died from a normal humongous rasengan while kaguya tanked 9 tailed beast rasenshurikens. She can regenerate while he can't, she has perfect susanoo busting taijutsu and she has more chakra than he does. So tell me exactly how momoshiki can get the win despite all that.

      Ok so you completely ignored the fact that I said I am talking about momoshiki after absorbing Kaguya, who oneshotted each of the 4 kage and then went up against Naruto. The only reason Naruto didn't use attacks like that is that Momoshiki would just absorb them, and attacks like that can hurt bi standers when the super bijuu rasenshuriken was done it even knocked Sasuke out of his susanoo, so Imagine what it would do to the kage, not to mention boruto. Kaguya has many abilities, but Momoshiki has the raw power over her, she never knocked Naruto unconcious but Momo did, prior to transforming so don't act like he never did anything on Kaguya's level

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    • Mobzzzzz5 wrote:

      Ok so you completely ignored the fact that I said I am talking about momoshiki after absorbing Kaguya, who oneshotted each of the 4 kage and then went up against Naruto.

      No, I didn't. In your OP you clearly stated that momoshiki was stronger than kaguya pre-transformation:

      Mobzzzzz5 wrote:

      With that in mind, I believe that Momoshiki would win as even Kaguya, the pregenetor of chakra fears him, prior to Kinshiki's absorption, imagine after.

      Whether we're talking about pre-transformation momoshiki or transformed momoshiki, my words still stand. You failed to adequately address anything I said. So what if he one shotted the kage, madara did the same thing to more powerful versions of the five kage (minus gaara) when he got serious and that madara was much weaker than momoshiki so thats not even a feat worth mentioning. When he went up against naruto in his base form, naruto was actually keeping up with him by clashing evenly and dodging momoshiki's attack but naruto was overwhelmed. I ask you again, do you think naruto in his base form could do that to kaguya when he was struggling in six paths sage mode? The answer is no. Do you think naruto in his base could do that to kaguya when teen rinnegan sasuke couldn't even do so with susanoo?? The answer is no.

      However, when naruto went into six paths sage mode, he was actually stronger than momoshiki and before you say none of that happened its all in Boruto chapter 8 pages 15-17. Need I remind you that naruto was weakened from having his chakra drained for a long period of time.

      Mobzzzzz5 wrote:

      The only reason Naruto didn't use attacks like that is that Momoshiki would just absorb them, and attacks like that can hurt bi standers when the super bijuu rasenshuriken was done it even knocked Sasuke out of his susanoo, so Imagine what it would do to the kage, not to mention boruto.

      No one ever questioned why naruto didn't use those jutsu its obvious. What I'm saying is momoshiki is so weak compared to kaguya that he died from a normal rasengan and by normal I mean it had no six paths chakra, no naruto wind style, no tailed beast chakra, no senjutsu, while kaguya tanked 9 tailed beast rasenshurikens that had all the aforementioned attributes without critical damage.

      Mobzzzzz5 wrote: Kaguya has many abilities, but Momoshiki has the raw power over her, she never knocked Naruto unconcious but Momo did, prior to transforming so don't act like he never did anything on Kaguya's level

      First of all, momoshiki does not have raw power over kaguya, why? Because on 2 occasions, kaguya's taijutsu managed to destroy sasuke's six path powered perfect susanoo (chap 688 pg 9, chap 680 pg 17) and she had an expansive truth seeking ball that was going to destroy the planet (or dimension arguably). Momoshiki has shown nothing close to that.

      Moreover, Momoshiki didn't knock naruto unconscious because he overpowered him, naruto was knocked unconscious because he chose to tank momo's jutsu because it was about to destroy the village. In chapter 6 page 7, naruto was about to blast momoshiki's attack away but he didn't, Sasuke then states "If naruto felt like it, he could blast that attack away, but it'd take all these surrounding lands here with it". So no, momoshiki has not shown power on kaguya's level. You forgot to tell me how exactly momoshiki would defeat kaguya, when she has susanoo busting taijutsu, has better ninjutsu, can regenerate, has so much more chakra and she's more durable.

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    • @Lorenz: First of all I said that she feared him in base, then the rasengan did have something specail about it, I don't know what it was, but at the center there was orange chakra, similair to the rasengans Naruto made in the last, so yes tailed beast, or six paths, and it already had wind style from boruto since he doesn't know how to make it otherwise, bottom line Naruto was knocked out because he would have been able to fight back if he was still awake, something Kaguya never managed to do.

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    • Mobzzzzz5 wrote: Ok so you completely ignored the fact that I said I am talking about momoshiki after absorbing Kaguya,

      Is their any feat of momoshiki which ever involved him absorbing kaguya? because last I checked their wasn't.

      Mobzzzzz5 wrote: Kaguya has many abilities, but Momoshiki has the raw power over her, she never knocked Naruto unconcious but Momo did, prior to transforming so don't act like he never did anything on Kaguya's level

      Shouldn't it be other way round? After all if momoshiki had raw power he would have oneshotted kages without absorbing kinshiki. Him needing the chakra pills as well as kinshiki shows that he won't win in taijutsu with kaguya who apparently had complied enough data to defeat the upcoming okutsukis.
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    • Namikazenaruto9 wrote:

      Mobzzzzz5 wrote: Ok so you completely ignored the fact that I said I am talking about momoshiki after absorbing Kaguya,

      Is their any feat of momoshiki which ever involved him absorbing kaguya? because last I checked their wasn't.

      Mobzzzzz5 wrote: Kaguya has many abilities, but Momoshiki has the raw power over her, she never knocked Naruto unconcious but Momo did, prior to transforming so don't act like he never did anything on Kaguya's level

      Shouldn't it be other way round? After all if momoshiki had raw power he would have oneshotted kages without absorbing kinshiki. Him needing the chakra pills as well as kinshiki shows that he won't win in taijutsu with kaguya who apparently had complied enough data to defeat the upcoming okutsukis.

      Sorry I meant kinshiki, and there is one feat that Momo has over her is knocking out a Naruto that is stronger than the one she fought

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    • @mobzz you still avoid the main question , how does he gonna defeat kaguya?

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    • Killer723 wrote: @mobzz you still avoid the main question , how does he gonna defeat kaguya?

      He can counter her physically, send bijuu bombs at her that even knocked out Naruto, but stronger, and absorb any form of energy attack she sends at him.

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    • Mobzzzzz5 wrote:

      Killer723 wrote: @mobzz you still avoid the main question , how does he gonna defeat kaguya?

      He can counter her physically, send bijuu bombs at her that even knocked out Naruto, but stronger, and absorb any form of energy attack she sends at him.

      Unless you are ,mistaken she can also absorb any jutsu momo throws. But if she goes for taijutsu(only) than momoshiki is going to run out off his pills.
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    • Namikazenaruto9 wrote: Unless you are ,mistaken she can also absorb any jutsu momo throws. But if she goes for taijutsu(only) than momoshiki is going to run out off his pills.

      It's just like Naruto's 9 rasenshuriken, she can be hurt by jutsu that contain six paths chakra, which he already absorbed from Naruto, so he can embellish his attacks with six paths chakra, and Kaguya would take quite the damage

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    • Mobzzzzz5 wrote: It's just like Naruto's 9 rasenshuriken, she can be hurt by jutsu that contain six paths chakra, which he already absorbed from Naruto, so he can embellish his attacks with six paths chakra, and Kaguya would take quite the damage

      Naruto's 9 rasenshuriken caused resonance something which momoshiki can't replicate at all and had nothing to do with 6 paths chakra.
      Momoshiki is fighting losing battle against her given her almost infinite chakra. He doesn't has the ability to either seal Kaguya nor the ability to defeat her in mortal combat.
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    • He can do plenty to her especially if it comes to the ETSB, he could just absorb it and send it back at her and she would have absolutely no way to counter it, because it uses a significant portion of her energy, so even dimension hopping would be tiring.

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    • Sasukes PS contains SP chakra but she wasnt hurt by it.Narutos 9 rasenshuriken seem to have more than just SP chakra.

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    • Kakashisologod wrote: Sasukes PS contains SP chakra but she wasnt hurt by it.Narutos 9 rasenshuriken seem to have more than just SP chakra.

      But using it to attack is taijutsu, unless its susanoo chidori then she should be effected by it, the only reason she was not is because she entered a portal

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    • Lol what?U relaise that sasukes amaterasu too is out of SP chakra but it didnt effect her?

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    • Mobzzzzz5 wrote:

      @Lorenz: First of all I said that she feared him in base, then the rasengan did have something specail about it, I don't know what it was, but at the center there was orange chakra, similair to the rasengans Naruto made in the last, so yes tailed beast, or six paths, and it already had wind style from boruto since he doesn't know how to make it otherwise,

      Even if we assume it had the nine tail's chakra, it still didn't have six paths chakra or senjutsu because naruto was not in six paths sage mode, it also didn't have naruto's wind style because thats not what a wind style rasengan looks like. We already saw how much little damage boruto's wind style did to momoshiki so boruto's wind style is irrelevant. The fact remains that kaguya tanked 9 sage art tailed beast rasenshurikens while momoshiki died from a much much weaker version of rasengan.

      Mobzzzzz5 wrote: bottom line Naruto was knocked out because he would have been able to fight back if he was still awake, something Kaguya never managed to do.

      Why are you choosing to be ignorant by ignoring facts? I just explained to you using facts why naruto was knocked out, it wasn't because momoshiki overpowered him, it was because he chose to tank the attack to save the village. Sasuke literally said that naruto could blast away the attack but it would destroy the village in chapter 6 pg 7. If they were fighting in a different battleground naruto would have simply countered by using his beast bomb which he was about to do. You seriously need to read the manga or watch the movie again.

      Mobzzzzz5 wrote: He can do plenty to her especially if it comes to the ETSB, he could just absorb it and send it back at her and she would have absolutely no way to counter it, because it uses a significant portion of her energy, so even dimension hopping would be tiring.

      First of all, kaguya knows about momoshiki's abilities so obviously she won't go around feeding him jutsu like that. Secondly, she has way more chakra than he does so while he's wasting chakra pills trying to get stronger, kaguya would just heal any damage she receives while momoshiki would keep on taking damage until he runs out of pills and kaguya would just finish him with an ash killing bone. Moreover, dimension hoping does not take a lot of chakra from kaguya, only swapping dimensions does. And even after she uses the ETSB which she won't, she will still have enough chakra to hop dimensions because she was about to do so right before sakura punched her. FACTS!

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    • Lorenzo VonMT wrote: First of all, kaguya knows about momoshiki's abilities so obviously she won't go around feeding him jutsu like that. Secondly, she has way more chakra than he does so while he's wasting chakra pills trying to get stronger, kaguya would just heal any damage she receives while momoshiki would keep on taking damage until he runs out of pills and kaguya would just finish him with an ash killing bone. Moreover, dimension hoping does not take a lot of chakra from kaguya, only swapping dimensions does. And even after she uses the ETSB which she won't, she will still have enough chakra to hop dimensions because she was about to do so right before sakura punched her. FACTS!

      Ok so if she knows Momoshiki's abilities, then there is absolutely no reason for her to build an army just to fight him and Kinshiki, if she could take him on since she's on a whole other league, the army is not necassary, she did not need to be weary of his arrival, it doesn't add up

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    • He also has rinnegan why use jutsu then LMAO.

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    • Mobzzzzz5 wrote: Ok so if she knows Momoshiki's abilities, then there is absolutely no reason for her to build an army just to fight him and Kinshiki, if she could take him on since she's on a whole other league, the army is not necassary, she did not need to be weary of his arrival, it doesn't add up

      What exactly will an army of zetsu's do to momoshiki and kinshiki when they could wipe them out with 2 or 3 nukes? That also doesn't add up. Kaguya was a weakling before she ate the fruit she may very well have been too cautious and overestimated momoshiki and kinshiki's powers since nothing we have seen from them put them above kaguya's level.

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    • Lorenzo VonMT wrote:

      Mobzzzzz5 wrote: Ok so if she knows Momoshiki's abilities, then there is absolutely no reason for her to build an army just to fight him and Kinshiki, if she could take him on since she's on a whole other league, the army is not necassary, she did not need to be weary of his arrival, it doesn't add up

      What exactly will an army of zetsu's do to momoshiki and kinshiki when they could wipe them out with 2 or 3 nukes? That also doesn't add up. Kaguya was a weakling before she ate the fruit she may very well have been too cautious and overestimated momoshiki and kinshiki's powers since nothing we have seen from them put them above kaguya's level.

      And kinshiki and momoshiki absorbed some people before them,they might be what kaguya was afraid of.

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    • I don't think it'd be so easy to absorb Kaguya herself in her entirety. I mean, Momoshiki complained about the hardship with extracting even Kurama's chakra from Naruto, while Kaguya possessed billion tonns more than that.

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    • hey, maybe she absorbed people's chakra so that momo and kinshiki couldn't take it for themselves. its what I would do.

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    • Good point.

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    • see people? "my other self" / "second personality" / "yin of my yang" / "eternity of my infinity" / "omega of my alpha" / "guy who copied my name" agrees. ps. forgot to say: momo will never win. black zetsu will simply bring her back after a few thousand years so...

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    • Lorenzo.r.1st wrote: see people? "my other self" / "second personality" / "yin of my yang" / "eternity of my infinity" / "omega of my alpha" / "guy who copied my name" agrees. ps. forgot to say: momo will never win. black zetsu will simply bring her back after a few thousand years so...

      True BZ too op.

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    • nigga, he's three times kaguya bro!

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    • Lorenzo.r.1st wrote: nigga, he's three times kaguya bro!

      I agree with ur point but watch that mouth I am black if you are as well then fine but don't go waltsing around saying nigga if you are any other race

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    • in taijutsu/physical strength

      kaguya after absorbing chakra from all people>=Unrivalled Strength rsm naruto>kaguya>> rsm naruto>>>>>Momoshiki

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    • Omimi wrote: in taijutsu/physical strength

      kaguya after absorbing chakra from all people>=Unrivalled Strength rsm naruto>kaguya>> rsm naruto>>>>>Momoshiki

      Aren't you also on VSBattles, I have seen you comment on my posts, nice to see you here

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    • Mobzzzzz5 wrote:

      Omimi wrote: in taijutsu/physical strength

      kaguya after absorbing chakra from all people>=Unrivalled Strength rsm naruto>kaguya>> rsm naruto>>>>>Momoshiki

      Aren't you also on VSBattles, I have seen you comment on my posts, nice to see you here

      ty

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    • Mobzzzzz5 wrote:

      Lorenzo.r.1st wrote: nigga, he's three times kaguya bro!

      I agree with ur point but watch that mouth I am black if you are as well then fine but don't go waltsing around saying nigga if you are any other race

      He uses it a lot of times,dont take it as an insult.Edit:Momoshiki just gets outmatched in every single determent.

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    • lol thanks kakashi. lol sorry, mob

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    • Lorenzo.r.1st wrote: lol thanks kakashi. lol sorry, mob

      No worries

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    • that was kinda funny though. my bad bro.

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    • Guys Kaguya would not overestimate people she has seen before and considering after an absorption, you gain the absorbed characters' abilities, she cannot overestimate them considering the powers keep adding up, and she would definetly know how strong she became so it would make no sense for her to over estimate them the only logical explanation is that they are stronger than her, and that they seemed weak because the kage were preparing for a threat greater than Kaguya yet they still got one shotted, which makes sense considering they can never reach that level, the only thing she has over Momoshiki is her immortality, otherwise, she would be absorbed after being knocked out.

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    • dude, there was no time for them to prepare for it! I don't remember who said it, but someone said that a whole decade has passed since gaiden to now, in the Narutoverse. that is impossible! in gaiden, sarada was 9-10 years old, and in the borutoverse, right now, she is thirteen. and yes, momo was weak. a hella weak. if he was so strong before absorbing kinshiki, that kaguya was afraid of him, then how come both gaara and darui were kicking his ass the whole fight, without Naruto's and sasuke's help? he had to absorb kinshiki just to punch and dodge Naruto, and then ur saying that he could kill kaguya in base? (since that's the form that she him in) that's just sad man.

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    • Lorenzo.r.1st wrote: dude, there was no time for them to prepare for it! I don't remember who said it, but someone said that a whole decade has passed since gaiden to now, in the Narutoverse. that is impossible! in gaiden, sarada was 9-10 years old, and in the borutoverse, right now, she is thirteen. and yes, momo was weak. a hella weak. if he was so strong before absorbing kinshiki, that kaguya was afraid of him, then how come both gaara and darui were kicking his ass the whole fight, without Naruto's and sasuke's help? he had to absorb kinshiki just to punch and dodge Naruto, and then ur saying that he could kill kaguya in base? (since that's the form that she him in) that's just sad man.

      First I said this before, and I will say it again the gaiden thing was a flashback from Naruto's memory, that occurred at least a decade before considering Sasuke never met his daughter who is currently 13, so again it was a flashback, if you read it again the sides were black just like in any flashback in the manga. So they had a decade to prepare for a threat greater than Kaguya. Gaara and Darui didn't do anything to Momo that hurt him in either the manga or the Movie, the only people that hurt him are Naruto and Sasuke. If you read my other post about his base being the equivelant to the SPSM base and then he transforms similair to what goku does with the god ki, so Naruto's base that you are talking about is really strong. One more thing the only reason they killed him is because Momo's hax was destroyed, otheriwise it would not have worked. BTW Naruto poured Some chakra, either bijuu, or six paths chakra into that rasengan, which is why it's core is orange, so it was not a normal Oodama rasengan that killed him. I'm dead sure that the attack would not have done anything if Momo still had his other rinnegan.

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    • lol every rasengan is orange! the anime depicts it as blue. and how would u know how long ago that flashback was? yo, spsm is a mode, just like sm. there isn't an in-between, for when he is in base and stuff. he has sp chakra, and because of said chakra, he has spsm. the bijuu chakra are totally unrelated to those two other powers. and even though momo was weak, it was plot that killed him. like I said before, boruto actually overpowered momo's thrusting force on his rasengan, with his own force. that is not possible. and of course Naruto at base in strong. he is above gaara in base now, imo.

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    • I will say it again,if u are not focused at doing something,even a completly not comparable person can beat u at it.

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    • yes, obviously.

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    • Kakashisologod wrote: I will say it again,if u are not focused at doing something,even a completly not comparable person can beat u at it.

      which is exactly what Momoshiki was, we never saw him push back it was just the rasengan he created that made the collision but he did not put any additional force as he was way to confused, leading to his death a good example is when Shin pierces Naruto with Sasuke's sword, that would not have been a big deal at all if Naruto was focusing.

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    • momo was focused alright. if he wasn't, the kage would've killed him, before he absorbed kinshiki.

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    • I am talikng about when Boruto's rasengan came along because there were 2 distractions prior to the actual attack, as we saw in the manga when the real boruto appeared Momoshiki still had the clone in his hand. Not all rasengan are orange that is contadicted by the movie, it's just most of Naruto's rasengan and even those are depicted as yellow, but this one had an orange core so he put either biju, six paths, or both into that rasengan. For the flashback it would make sense that right after Sarada's birth Sasuke went on one mission for around 3 years, then brought back his knowledge and what he wanted to tell, then there was a gap in which Sarada did not meet Sasuke I'm saying then decade was from Sarada age 3-13, the 3 years before he was gathering scraps of evidence. I highly doubt that if the kage heard that there was a threat greater than Kaguya coming that they would not start preparing themselves. And what I am talking about for the spsm is when he first got it he was in a mode that was later mixed with the bijuu chakra the result was SPSM, what I am saying is that form prior to the mixing of the bijuu chakra was absorbed into Naruto's base again, I cannot stress enough how similair that is to goku's case, which is more simple to understand. I do not know why you mentioned Gaara, Naruto was stronger than him since they wer kids. Now Naruto is on a whole new level, so no need for that comparison. Naruto's base is the same as the one that pushed back Madara, and threw Youton Rasenshurinkens that cut the god tree.

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    • I don't know what ur talking bout

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    • Mobzzzzz5 wrote: Guys Kaguya would not overestimate people she has seen before and considering after an absorption, you gain the absorbed characters' abilities, she cannot overestimate them considering the powers keep adding up, and she would definetly know how strong she became so it would make no sense for her to over estimate them the only logical explanation is that they are stronger than her, and that they seemed weak because the kage were preparing for a threat greater than Kaguya yet they still got one shotted, which makes sense considering they can never reach that level, the only thing she has over Momoshiki is her immortality, otherwise, she would be absorbed after being knocked out.

      omg I thought we settled this. Your argument lies on the premise that Base momoshiki is stronger than kaguya, so lets discuss base momoshiki. This is the same guy that was clashing on par with darui at the 1:14:12 mark of the movie on kissanime, look it up since I can't post links. Like I said before, Darui can't do that to kaguya because even sasuke failed to do it. You have yet to counter this point.

      Mobzzzzz5 wrote:

      the only thing she has over Momoshiki is her immortality, otherwise, she would be absorbed after being knocked out.

      What jutsu exactly can momoshiki conjure up that will knock kaguya out when even 9 tailed beast rasenshurikens failed to critically injure her? His strongest jutsu couldn't even overpower naruto's standard rasengan that may have had a bit of nine tails chakra but it surely didn't have six paths chakra or senjutsu, or naruto's wind style, because naruto wasn't in six paths sage mode when he made the rasengan.

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    • Lorenzo.r.1st wrote: I don't know what ur talking bout

      He said that momoshiki wasnt focused when he clashed with borutos rasengan.

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    • thats just stupid! that kid needs to get a clue, instead of making excuses! how could a person not be paying attention at a moment like that?!

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    • Lorenzo.r.1st wrote: thats just stupid! that kid needs to get a clue, instead of making excuses! how could a person not be paying attention at a moment like that?!

      Sasuke.

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    • Mobzzzzz5 wrote: He can do plenty to her especially if it comes to the ETSB, he could just absorb it and send it back at her and she would have absolutely no way to counter it, because it uses a significant portion of her energy, so even dimension hopping would be tiring.

      What do you mean by etsb? is it expansive TSB? Because if it is than how can he absorb truth seeker without risking his own rinnegan? Afterall even truth seeker can negate any ninjutsu.
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    • Yes he means expansive truth seeking balls, but it doesn't matter because kaguya knows about momoshiki's abilities so she won't blindly feed him jutsus if it will benefit him, but yeah the expansive truth seeking ball could in fact negate his absorption.

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    • Mobzzzzz5 wrote: I've been hearing that alot of people here believe that Kaguya is stronger than Momoshiki, I'm going to introduce three arguments, and here what you guys think about them.

      I think that a massive misunderstanding has been created regarding Momoshiki and Kaguya.

      The specific words were "greater threat", not "stronger than". Considering the events implied by the Boruto movie, it seems Kaguya rebelled against the Otsutsuki homeworld. Considering that Momoshiki and Kinshiki were looking for immortality, they weren't immortal.

      This brings me to three important points: 1: Momoshiki and Kinshiki were not personally what Kaguya feared. (since by logic, they couldn't have been around) 2: She made an army, suggesting that numbers were her weakness and not firepower. She was also apparently terrified about people stealing her power (As she was willing to murder her sons to take it back). 3: We know that Momoshiki can absorb jutsu and Kinshiki makes stuff from chakra. Judging by their power, about a third of a Fruit is missing (The piece that contains powers like Shikotsumyaku and Eighty Gods, but also the Sharingan (since Momoshiki lacked the tomoe on his third rinnegan).

      All in all, this suggests: 1: the threat Kaguya faced was much greater than what Naruto and Sasuke faced. Although the Third Otsutsuki was scrapped, the revelation of Boruto's mark and kawaki's mark logically suggests the third otsutsuki does exist. Also keep in mind that the idea for the third otsutsuki may still have been in play when Kishimoto wrote these words 2: The threat was not just posed by fruit users but also by essentially a world - or multiple of Otsutsuki. She wasn't preparing to fight two people: she was preparing to fight a gargantuan number. Any of them could be given a chakra edible with some unsuspecting power to backstab her with. (Imagine giving an edible with All-killing Ash bones to some random guy. Fight head-on with the power-trio and slip in an attack with the ash bones. Judging from Naruto's tactics, Kaguya would've been fooled). 3: The threat to Naruto and Sasuke was nevertheless greater than Kaguya. The existence of more Otsutsuki (potentially with Fruit powers) would mean a staggering risk to the Ninja world, as they haven't recovered from the past world war.

      (Keep in mind that about 75% -ish of the Ninja army was destroyed. it was halved after the first day. The fourth division was almost entirely obliterated. The Juubi destroyed many, then the Shinju trunk killed many more).

      So in conclusion, Momoshiki isn't directly stronger than Kaguya. With some planning he could be (again: the point of the story), and as i've suggested before his ability to absorb ninjutsu would be hugely problematic for Kaguya (who mostly spams them). the main reason people disagree seems to stem from All-killing ash bones (and whether Momoshiki can absorb them).

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    • The ash bones are made of chakra, like the rock justu that Momo absorbed from bortuo so they would also be absorbed.

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    • Teleportation combo+ashe bones,narutos clone couldnt react to that,dont think momoshiki can.Hell kaguya can fight with just tajjutsu.

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    • Ravenlot 27
      Ravenlot 27 removed this reply because:
      I was wrong
      11:27, March 19, 2017
      This reply has been removed
    • Mobzzzzz5 wrote: The ash bones are made of chakra, like the rock justu that Momo absorbed from bortuo so they would also be absorbed.

      No they aren't. It's part of her skeleton. just like Kimimaro had.

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    • In the end, it doesn't really matter because like boruto showed, you can land a ninjutsu hit on momoshiki as long as you're able to bypass his hands and make contact with his body with the jutsu. And like kaguya showed, she could shoot those bones through portals and with a distraction, there is a very high chance she could land the hit.

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    • Lorenzo VonMT wrote: In the end, it doesn't really matter because like boruto showed, you can land a ninjutsu hit on momoshiki as long as you're able to bypass his hands and make contact with his body with the jutsu. And like kaguya showed, she could shoot those bones through portals and with a distraction, there is a very high chance she could land the hit.

      Momoshiki didn't absorb it because he though the jutsu failed. He can see Kaguya's bones coming. Thus he can absorb them.

      Also, Shikotsumyaku is about using chakra to control bones. Thus, it seems to me that the bone attack counts as ninjutsu.

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    • @LorenzV: Please give me a panel in which Kaguya knocks out Naruto, not to mention that Naruto is stronger now, but just show me a panel or a mention of her knocking him out, I get your argument that she is more durable but you cannot deny Momo's base stronger attacks excluding the ETSB, which by the way he can just pop a pill and get out of that dimension.

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    • she can teleport to any place, and since every byakugan has a blind spot, u can deduce ur answer from this.

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    • She can tp ash bone to the byakugans blind spot and one shot momoshiki.

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    • see? he gets it.

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    • FOR FUCKING SAKE MOMO CANT TAKE HER IN CLOSE COMBAT NOR TO KNOCK HER, lemme explain.

      byakugan + killing ash bone , she dosent need to lunch at him bone at all she can just use them as weapons , dont forget she can summon bones from part of her body just like kimimaro , but unlike kimi kaguya one shot you with stab

      Dimension control , enormous speed , Eighty Gods Vacuum Attack , true seeker orb.

      EVEN FUSE WITH FIELD and attack him till he dies common he dosent come close to her level this is getting ridiculous.

      and even if he knocks her , is that gonna kill her ? :D

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    • She is immortal.

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    • Mobzzzzz5 wrote:

      @LorenzV: Please give me a panel in which Kaguya knocks out Naruto, not to mention that Naruto is stronger now, but just show me a panel or a mention of her knocking him out

      What will that prove exactly? I never even stated she knocked him out but there is no doubt that she's significantly stronger than naruto.

      Mobzzzzz5 wrote: , I get your argument that she is more durable but you cannot deny Momo's base stronger attacks excluding the ETSB

      Yes I can deny it, what did momo do in base that puts him above kaguya? You can't just say: "he's stronger than her if we ignore her strongest technique". Cmon bro, what kind of biased argument is that. By that logic I can turn around and do the same thing. Momoshiki himself states that traveling through dimensions takes a lot of pills after he absorbed bee's chakra. Kaguya can simply wait till he runs low then use the ETSB, just like how she saved it for last during her battle with team 7 and he won't be able to escape because he doesn't have enough pills left. Kaguya won't be throwing jutsu at him either because she knows he can absorb them.

      But it won't even get to that point because she can simply finish him off with an ash killing bone in a drawn out fight when he starts running low on pills. While he's taking damage and getting weaker, kaguya is simply healing everything he throws at her. She has the ten tails and therefore has more chakra than he does, so theres no doubt that she'll more than outlast him. You have still yet to tell us how exactly momoshiki would win despite all of kaguya's abilities.

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    • One thing that put him above Kaguya in base is knocking Naruto out, If she was so storng she would have just done it instead of fighting a long battle, she could have ended it quickly, but she could not, even with Naruto separated from Sasuke

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    • Mobzzzzz5 wrote: One thing that put him above Kaguya in base is knocking Naruto out, If she was so storng she would have just done it instead of fighting a long battle, she could have ended it quickly, but she could not, even with Naruto separated from Sasuke

      she would have done it if naruto wasn't using dimension filled clones. Naruto was stalling her all the time And Both naruto and sasuke came close to death several times and were rescued by obito and kakashi via kamui every single time. Perhaps if she had gone after the extras and sasuke first Kaguya would have won.
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    • Well the fact that the clones were a problem is even worse, because they are basically Narutos with a fraction of his chakra, and it took her a while to deal with 5000 clones, meaning his chakra was at 1/5000 per clone

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    • Mobzzzzz5 wrote: Well the fact that the clones were a problem is even worse, because they are basically Narutos with a fraction of his chakra, and it took her a while to deal with 5000 clones, meaning his chakra was at 1/5000 per clone

      Still a usefull distraction.

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    • Though it was a distraction, she was never able to knock him out, which is something base Momoshiki has done proving that he at least has better firepower than her

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    • Mobzzzzz5 wrote: One thing that put him above Kaguya in base is knocking Naruto out, If she was so storng she would have just done it instead of fighting a long battle, she could have ended it quickly, but she could not, even with Naruto separated from Sasuke

      Dude, this is the third time I'm answering this question of yours, you didn't even address it, you just kept repeating the same question after every answer I gave you. Here's the answer again

      Lorenzo VonMT wrote:

      I just explained to you using facts why naruto was knocked out, it wasn't because momoshiki overpowered him, it was because he chose to tank the attack to save the village. Sasuke literally said that naruto could blast away the attack but it would destroy the village in chapter 6 pg 7. If they were fighting in a different battleground naruto would have simply countered by using his beast bomb which he was about to do.

      Instead of repeating the same question over and over again, lets hear your counter to the above fact.

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    • That is a completely different thing you are talking about Naruto using his offensive powers to overpower something capable of outdoing his defensive powers, all this shows is that Naruto's defence is weaker than his offense, otherwise your point is inalid because it physically knocked him out, where as none of Kaguya's attacks did more than push Naruto back, or corner him, or hurt him but never to the extent that Momo did. I understand where you are coming from, but that does not change the fact that by protecting the village, he got himself knocked out.

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    • Mobzzzzz5 wrote: That is a completely different thing you are talking about Naruto using his offensive powers to overpower something capable of outdoing his defensive powers, all this shows is that Naruto's defence is weaker than his offense, otherwise your point is inalid because it physically knocked him out, where as none of Kaguya's attacks did more than push Naruto back, or corner him, or hurt him but never to the extent that Momo did. I understand where you are coming from, but that does not change the fact that by protecting the village, he got himself knocked out.

      This is obvious, thats the case for almost every character in the series. My point is not invalid because kaguya has many attacks that could not only knock out naruto but they would kill him. Ash killing bones, expansive truth seeking ball and as a jinchuriki she could use bijuu bombs. Just because she never knocked him out does not mean she doesn't have the capability to do so.

      There were 2 instances where kaguya was going to kill naruto but kakashi or obito saved him. The first time was in the dimension with increased gravity where kaguya was about to kill both naruto and sasuke with ash bones then obito took the hit for them. The second time was when kaguya was about to shoot naruto with another ash bone when she was about to be sealed, then kakashi used kamui on it.

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    • Kaguya isnt the jincukriki she IS the ten tails and she is merged with god tree.

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    • Oh yeah you're right.

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    • As I said Momoshiki is fast enough to react to Ash Bone technique, and if Kaguya uses the ETSB he can just leave the dimension, and the attacks you mentioned are the only ones Kaguya could use to do sevre damage to Naruto, but otherwise he is on par with her, and can even distract her long enough for Sasuke to return from the other dimension. This Naruto is even stronger than the one that fought kaguya, and still he got knocked out.

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    • Mobzzzzz5 wrote: As I said Momoshiki is fast enough to react to Ash Bone technique, and if Kaguya uses the ETSB he can just leave the dimension, and the attacks you mentioned are the only ones Kaguya could use to do sevre damage to Naruto, but otherwise he is on par with her, and can even distract her long enough for Sasuke to return from the other dimension. This Naruto is even stronger than the one that fought kaguya, and still he got knocked out.

      Adult naruto is weaker than vs kaguya naruto.

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    • No he is not he still has the SPSM and he got the other half of kurama, he got rusty, however he has only been getting stronger, suggesting that he is weaker would be like saying Sasuke no longer has his rinnegan, illogical, and there is no evidence that he got weaker

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    • Mobzzzzz5 wrote: No he is not he still has the SPSM and he got the other half of kurama, he got rusty, however he has only been getting stronger, suggesting that he is weaker would be like saying Sasuke no longer has his rinnegan, illogical, and there is no evidence that he got weaker

      ok so he gonna knock kaguya and win ? I mean you keep sayin that , if his only feat is to knock kaguya then am sorry i still cant see him winning this.

      i mean which part you dont understand she is immortal. He gonna knock her ? she is deadly in hand to hand combat , every attack contains one shot. He gonna knock her ? fuse with field and attack him till he dies. He gonna knock her ?

      there are 105 ways how she can kill him with mid diff i just dont understand this anymore.

      Naruto is on par with kaguya ?

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    • I would say they are equal. not stronger and not weaker.

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    • Lorenzo.r.1st wrote: I would say they are equal. not stronger and not weaker.

      prior to Kinshiki's absorption or after? @Killer723: I never said he would knock out Kaguya, I am saying that even efore absorbing Kinshiki, he had a feat that outclassed anything Kaguya did in terms of attack potency, except for the ETSB. Which she did using the power she sucked from the shinobi alliance, and added that on to her own. However with no one under infinite tsukuyomi, she has no last resort. Naruto was near her level during their fight, they swapped hands even, but she beat him slightly, with him retaining absolutely no injury. Now he is even stronger so I would say he is on that level, if he gets a natural energy boost he could be higher. And a victory could just be a K.O. which is something that he has a chance of doing after absorbing Kinshiki. I would say the victory for Momo is High-diff

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    • Mobzzzzz5 wrote:

      As I said Momoshiki is fast enough to react to Ash Bone technique,

      If kaguya blindly shoots it at him yes, but if momoshiki chooses to engage in hand to hand combat with kaguya, he'll definitely get hit with one. Why? because when momo fought naruto, naruto was significantly weakened due to momo draining his chakra for hours but yet, he was able to land several hits on momoshiki. Substitute naruto with kaguya who is stronger and the first hit kaguya lands will be the end of momoshiki if she's using her ash bones like so http://imgur.com/OZQpOET

      Mobzzzzz5 wrote:

      and if Kaguya uses the ETSB he can just leave the dimension,

      Of course he can but he can only do that 2 or 3 times because he himself stated that it takes a lot of pills to travel through dimensions. So tell me how will he defeat her if he's running away to another dimension when kaguya can just undo the ETSB when he runs away?

      Mobzzzzz5 wrote:

      and the attacks you mentioned are the only ones Kaguya could use to do sevre damage to Naruto

      Not "severely damage", the word you're looking for is kill. Theres no doubt the ash bones would kill him, just like theres no doubt a ten tails bijuu bomb would kill him, just like theres no doubt the ETSB would kill him.

      Mobzzzzz5 wrote: , but otherwise he is on par with her, and can even distract her long enough for Sasuke to return from the other dimension. This Naruto is even stronger than the one that fought kaguya, and still he got knocked out.

      Kaguya is out of naruto's league, he was only able to distract her because he used 5000 clones, I think you're under quantifying how large a number 5000 is, she didn't know which was the real naruto so she had to eliminate the clones by trial and error. Most importantly, we don't even know how long naruto was distracting her for. It makes no sense whatsoever how you're using momoshiki's feat that he used on a weaker character to justify him being stronger than kaguya who has jutsus that are mind numbingly stronger than the jutsu momoshiki used to knock out naruto.

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    • Naruto was not as weakned as you make him out to be, he as weakened but not enough for him not to be able to enter SPSM, against Toneri he was so weakened that he could only enter Bijuu Sage mode. There is no proof that she can undo the ETSB. A ten tails bijuu dama is not strong enough to kill him as he has around the same amount of chakra as the ten tails. I am saying that 5000 clones bought them time and she had to kill them 1 by 1, which means she could actually be distracted by something as meek as a clone. She is not out of his league, considering in a one on one he could swap hands with her, and lost with no noticable damage. We know that Naruto distracted her long enough for Sasuke to get back, which took quite a while considering Obito and Sasuke had to find the correct dimension, and then take him out of it, then go back to the ice dimension. Ok one last time Naruto is not weaker, you have no proof of him being weaker in the boruto movie until you can provide some, quit using that dumb argument. Momoshiki accomplished something that Momoshiki never did prior to transforming, and Kaguya feared him for a reason, her ash bone is a hax, that can be dodged, Naruto did dodge it a couple times, even through portals, and the ETSB is her only way of killing him if he does not absorb enough Natural energy to counter it.

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    • Mobzzzzz5 wrote:

      Naruto was not as weakned as you make him out to be, he as weakened but not enough for him not to be able to enter SPSM

      Yes he was, notice how he couldn't maintain six paths sage mode after they defeated the golem and he had to use his version 1 cloak to defend against momoshiki's attack. Again the point is that naruto while weakened was able to land multiple hits on momoshiki. Therefore, kaguya who is stronger than naruto will undeniably be able to repeat the same thing but instead of punches she would use her ash bones like so http://imgur.com/OZQpOET

      Mobzzzzz5 wrote:

      There is no proof that she can undo the ETSB.

      When she was sealed the jutsu stopped, which means its activity is dependent on kaguya therefore its highly probable that she can stop it from expanding. Even if she can't, she can simply wait till momoshiki runs out of pills then use it. What will momoshiki do then?

      Mobzzzzz5 wrote:

      A ten tails bijuu dama is not strong enough to kill him as he has around the same amount of chakra as the ten tails.

      Are you serious? Naruto only has the 9 nine tails and a tiny bit of the other bijuu chakra, kaguya in her prime had the 9 tails along with the other 8 tails. Thats not even close. When she was resurrected she had 8.5 bijuu and the chakra from the people in the infinite tsukuyomi. Naruto got knocked out by a jutsu that amplified boruto kote techniques, a ten tails bijuu bomb thats almost country level would definitely kill him.

      Mobzzzzz5 wrote:

      I am saying that 5000 clones bought them time and she had to kill them 1 by 1, which means she could actually be distracted by something as meek as a clone.

      So what? 5000 clones would distract anyone.

      Mobzzzzz5 wrote:

      She is not out of his league, considering in a one on one he could swap hands with her, and lost with no noticable damage. We know that Naruto distracted her long enough for Sasuke to get back, which took quite a while considering Obito and Sasuke had to find the correct dimension, and then take him out of it, then go back to the ice dimension.

      Yes she is out of his league considering she was dominating throughout most of the fight and if it was a 1v1 naruto would have been dead twice if kakashi and obito weren't there to save him from the ash bones.

      Mobzzzzz5 wrote:

      Ok one last time Naruto is not weaker, you have no proof of him being weaker in the boruto movie until you can provide some, quit using that dumb argument.

      I'm not saying naruto was weaker in that last paragraph, I was saying he is weaker than kaguya.

      Mobzzzzz5 wrote:

      Momoshiki accomplished something that Momoshiki never did prior to transforming,

      So what? Seriously this point of yours make no sense. Put kaguya in the same position as momoshiki and she would not only knock naruto out but she would kill him, either with the ETSB or with a bijuu bomb.

      Mobzzzzz5 wrote: and Kaguya feared him for a reason, her ash bone is a hax, that can be dodged, Naruto did dodge it a couple times, even through portals, and the ETSB is her only way of killing him if he does not absorb enough Natural energy to counter it.

      It can be dodged by momoshiki if kaguya uses it as a projectile but it can't be dodge by momoshiki if she's using it as a melee weapon like I proved above. Moreover, you have no evidence that absorbing natural energy will protect him from an ETSB. By absorbing all the natural energy available to naruto, he was barely able to survive the aftermath of indra's arrow vs FRS. A jutsu that was going to destroy the world would completely obliterate that natural energy shield.

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    • Mobzzzzz5 wrote: No he is not he still has the SPSM and he got the other half of kurama, he got rusty, however he has only been getting stronger, suggesting that he is weaker would be like saying Sasuke no longer has his rinnegan, illogical, and there is no evidence that he got weaker

      Losing hags chakra isnt a evidence?

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    • They lost the seals but not the powers

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    • They lost hags chakra,but they have their own SP Chakra.

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    • No they did no they lost the seals considering that the seals were necessary to defeat Kaguya, if they lost hags' chakra it would have shown in the final fight that they are weaker but they were not so no they have only been gaining power.

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    • I think we can consider the issue of this thread settled.

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    • Mobzzzzz5 wrote: No they did no they lost the seals considering that the seals were necessary to defeat Kaguya, if they lost hags' chakra it would have shown in the final fight that they are weaker but they were not so no they have only been gaining power.

      What final fight?Vs momoshiki?They didnt show they are stronger either.

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    • no in the final fight VOTE2

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    • Mobzzzzz5 wrote: no in the final fight VOTE2

      I was talking about them after VOTE2.

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    • They did not show that they were stronger against Momo for 2 reasons, 1. they were limited to taijutsu

      2. They were not using full power, sasuke made the portal and did not use his EMS the entire fight, and Naruto had chakra sucked out for hours on end.

      These guys were not shown to use any of their insane abilities. In VOTE2 they maintained the same level of destruction as when they fought Kaguya, then they exceeded it slightly with the final attacks

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    • Slightly?They were in the air and kakashi and sakura couldev had felt the attack.Lmao

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    • That was only because those attacks used most of their remaining chakra+ chakra they just gained, against Kaguya Naruto made an attack so strong it knocked Sasuke out of his Susanoo, and the attack was not directed to Sasuke but to Kaguya, the Super Bijuu Rasenshuriken.

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    • It wasn't naruto's attack that knocked sasuke out of susanoo, it was kaguya's eighty Gods vacuum attack that did. Chapter 688 page 7, kaguya hits the susanoo with vacuum palms and you can see sasuke being knocked out of it before naruto charged the tailed beast rasenshurikens.

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    • You are right however the attack still had a present effect on Sasuke as he grunted at the shockwave.

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    • Mobzzzzz5 wrote: That was only because those attacks used most of their remaining chakra+ chakra they just gained, against Kaguya Naruto made an attack so strong it knocked Sasuke out of his Susanoo, and the attack was not directed to Sasuke but to Kaguya, the Super Bijuu Rasenshuriken.

      Still not the same as knocking him out of susano.

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    • I am sorry but still his attack was so strong it made Kaguya pull out her strongest form

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    • Yeah thanks to obito sakura and kakashi.

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    • Not at all actually they had no direct effect on her

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    • Kakashi cutting her arm?Sakura punching kaguya in the head?Obito returning sasuke who without they cant seal kaguya?LMAO tottaly useless.

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    • The arm cut was not a big deal, the head punch also insignificant, the return of sasuke through Obito is indirect, so there you have it

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    • Coughs kakashi blitzed amped kaguya and saved naruto,sakura was the reason they were able to touch and seal her,obito returned sasuke,boosted kakashi,saved sasuke by blocking ash bone.

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    • and don't forget the kamui Susanoo, That thing was instrumental in negating that rabbit Beast.

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    • Namikazenaruto9 wrote: and don't forget the kamui Susanoo, That thing was instrumental in negating that rabbit Beast.

      He thinks sasuke and naruto did all the work and that they 1vs2 her,instead it was the opposite and they 1vs5 her.

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    • If it was 1 vs 5, then the fight vs momo was even worse it was 2 vs 6 then 1 vs 6, so that argument does not play in your favour

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    • Mobzzzzz5 wrote: If it was 1 vs 5, then the fight vs momo was even worse it was 2 vs 6 then 1 vs 6, so that argument does not play in your favour

      Some how you aren't getting the point. I would say Kamui- kakashi's presence was much better than those kages. Technically Kakashi in his kamui powered state could have separated the rinnegan-hands from momoshiki's torso ending the fight even before momoshiki could do anything. The fight would have ended faster than you can blink. But if those kages had fought alongside The duo against Kaguya they would have been "burden".
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    • So no Hag temp boosted naruto and sasuke aint gonna touch kaguya in 1vs2 battle.

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    • I disagree as the Kage would pose distractions and create an opening for Naruto and Sasuke to seal Kaguya,. Kakashi is not going to be able to hurt Momo as his taijutsu is not amazing and not something he is famous for what he is famous for is his kamui raikiri which would just be absorbed

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    • It isnt going to be absorbed since momoshiki cant even react to that.

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    • Kakashisologod wrote: It isnt going to be absorbed since momoshiki cant even react to that.

      Says who, she just thought the ashbone went through him, Kaguya could not react to Naruto's full speed therefore she lost an arm, while Momo is capable of doing so

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    • Yeah momokinishiki is capable of reacting to very exhausted naruto while very weakend kagyua got her arm ripped off to a temp hag booosted naruto with bijjus chakra.

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    • Mobzzzzz5 wrote: Says who, she just thought the ashbone went through him, Kaguya could not react to Naruto's full speed therefore she lost an arm, while Momo is capable of doing so

      You are forgetting Naruto had two sources of chakra at that time. One was Hagoromo's seal and his-kurama 's chakra. And he was only able to blitz when she was low on chakra. Before that even combo attacks from both of them with sasuke using teleportation didn't get to her.

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    • She was low on chakra because those two tired her so that is invalid, it was close and if we are talking about the teleportation it did not work on either of them so there you go INVALID

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    • AND u keep ignoring the fact that they needed OBITO KAKASHI AND SAKURA JUST TO TOUCH HER!

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    • Yeah really, he needed those 3 to land his 9 rasenshuriken, or to swap hands with her, or to use sexy justsu on her, land a perfect susanoo slash on her, right they needed those three to do so

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    • When did he land a perfet susano slash,thought sasuke got slaped in the face?XD So?He couldnt do those things if they didnt exhaust her before or save him.

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    • it was in the lava dimension

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    • @Mobzzzzz5 Ah, you mean the one which Kaguya deflected with ease and sent Sasuke flying?

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    • That did not happen could you please give a page and chapter since you are so confident

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    • Chapter 680, page 17(the one where she deflects the attack) and chapter 681, page 1(the one where Sasuke flys away, his Susanoo dwindling).

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    • rekt

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    • lol ahaha... wait, if he gave the wrong chapter? hahahahaha lmao

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    • all that shows is the explosion from Sasuke's slash

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    • Correction: it shows explosion of Sasuke attempting to slash Kaguya with Susanoo blade, which, by Sasuke's own admission, didn't work(chapter 681, page 2) since Kaguya deflected Sasuke's Susanoo blade with such power that it caused the explosion which not only made Sasuke flying, but also break down his Susanoo.

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    • She did not deflect it she went through a portal to escape it meaning the attack would have hurt her and she had nothing to do but run away.

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    • Except had she done that, there wouldn't be any explosion at all. Which there was. Which also send Sasuke flying and break down his Susanoo. And may I also remind you the fact that Sasuke himself said, "Even Susanoo didn't work..."? So, are you now saying that Sasuke just decided, "Welp, she just vanished, better hit myself for lols"?

      Seriously, you should get help with that denial of yours. It's not healthy.

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    • Kaguya clearly pushed back Sasuke's Susanoo even while low on chakra and with her left hand severed (before Naruto attacked her with Super Biju Rasenshuriken), @Mobzzzzz5 do you seriously thing that fully-powered Kaguya (which she was in the beginning of the fight) couldn't replicate that feat and had to escape?

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    • This is not about them it is about Momoshiki fighting them

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    • Mobzzzzz5 wrote: This is not about them it is about Momoshiki fighting them

      Who lost to super weakend naruto and sasuke,while fresh naruto and sasuke needed obito,sakura and kakashi just to touch and seal her.

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    • Well I could pull out the argument that Sasuke and Naruto had mastered their powers. Naruto was only able to use the Kurama avatar, when he fought Sasuke, and we all know how unexperienced Sasuke was with his rinnegan.

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    • Mobzzzzz5 wrote: This is not about them it is about Momoshiki fighting them

      So do you acknowledge that kaguya did in fact deflect the susanoo or not?

      Mobzzzzz5 wrote: Well I could pull out the argument that Sasuke and Naruto had mastered their powers. Naruto was only able to use the Kurama avatar, when he fought Sasuke, and we all know how unexperienced Sasuke was with his rinnegan.

      Well kaguya has a mastered rinnegan along with a byakugan. Also naruto knew how to use kurama's avatar since the first time he learned it. Just because he didn't use it in the kaguya fight doesn't mean he didn't know how to use it. Not like it would have changed anything considering its as strong as sasuke's susanoo which got easily destroyed by kaguya twice.

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    • It makes sense that he could not pull it out as he may have had to learn how to manifest only one of he Bijuu's chakra in to a beast with the chakra of the other tailed beasts' present, That would pose a distraction so there is that, and I said she did not deflect it she went through a portal and escaped it though I agree that she can hurt the Susanoo

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    • Hurt?More like completly destroy.

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    • Mobzzzzz5 wrote:

      It makes sense that he could not pull it out as he may have had to learn how to manifest only one of he Bijuu's chakra in to a beast with the chakra of the other tailed beasts' present,

      Thats wrong, kurama's avatar is already something he knows how to do and in six paths sage mode he has the ability to understand the nature of all universal things so theres no need to learn anything because he already knew how to do it. What you just said was an assumption, you need some evidence to back it up.

      Mobzzzzz5 wrote: and I said she did not deflect it she went through a portal and escaped it though I agree that she can hurt the Susanoo

      So even after someone provided concrete evidence that says otherwise you're still denying it? Show us the manga scan where kaguya went through the portal please. Why would the susanoo get destroyed if she escaped through a portal? Did the portal destroy the susanoo? This is the anime scene when she destroyed the susanoo http://imgur.com/soq9bWq lets see you deny this.

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    • Ok good job you caught me I did not watch that episode

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    • @Lorenzo VonMT the winner!

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    • good kaguya won.

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    • That is just a susanoo slash, momo also broke the susanoo so what are u saying

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    • Momoshiki didn't break a PS...Kaguya broke it like it was nothing

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    • Then agian Naruto and sasuke did not even fuse their avatars for her, but they did for Momo so ...

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    • Mobzzzzz5 wrote: Then agian Naruto and sasuke did not even fuse their avatars for her, but they did for Momo so ...

      And yeah they lost vs kaguya because they didnt do it.

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    • They did not lose, they sealed her after cutting off one of her arms, and provoking her to use her strongest form

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    • Momoshiki didn't obliterate a susanoo like kaguya did, he just destroyed parts of the helmet with multiple attacks. Much weaker feat.

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    • Mobzzzzz5 wrote: They did not lose, they sealed her after cutting off one of her arms, and provoking her to use her strongest form

      Yeah with sakuras,DMS kakashis and DMS obitos help.

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    • Holy crap that argument does not matter if you use that argument momo fought 7 people on his own, boruto included

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    • Yeah lets look at the facts shall we?Super exhausted naruto and sasuke 1vs2 momoshiki,after that those 2 guys gave momo super power up So that the reason he was able to fight 7 people for crying out loud.

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    • Ok if kaguya had beec concerned about those three you claim were so vital, she would have easily killed them, as they were basically defenseless. Besides all their effects prior to Naruto cutting off Kaguya's arm were indirect, they brought Sasuke back but Sasuke was the one who fought Kaguya otherwise it was indirect effect until Kakashi got the DMS, and even then those were minor effects, clearly Naruto and Sasuke had enough chakra to keep going for a while aka the final fight, so they could have just chopped the other arm off and tried again.

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    • Really dude?EVEN indirect help IS STILL a help.ALSO OBITO SAVED SASUKE letting himself get hit by the ashbone,kakashi cutting amped kaguyas arm is a little help?Yeah,no.Sakura also punched her in the head AND THATS the reason they were able to seal her.Sasuke and naruto ARE NOT stronger than kaguya.

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    • This is very simple OP, if you take out all the people that fought momoshiki and kinshiki besides naruto and sasuke, naruto and sasuke would still win because naruto and sasuke would still force momoshiki to eat kinshiki and that scientist guy wouldn't be around to feed momoshiki chakra after his golem got defeated and he was out. Naruto and sasuke would then proceed to finish him off. However, if you take out obito, kakashi and sakura from the kaguya fight, naruto and sasuke would have lost many times over, this is why:

      First of all, obito wouldn't be around to rescue sasuke, sakura wouldn't be around to provide obito with chakra to rescue sasuke. 2. Obito wouldn't be around to use kamui to save naruto and sasuke from kaguya's ash bones in the gravity dimension, they would have died btw. 3. Kakashi wouldn't be around to use kamui raikiri on kaguya which placed kaguya in an ideal position for naruto and sasuke to seal her 4. Kakashi wouldn't be around to use kamui on the ash bone kaguya fired at naruto as she was about to be sealed. 5. Sakura wouldn't be around to punch kaguya which allowed naruto and sasuke to seal her because kaguya was just about to escape before the punch.

      Therefore, the contributions naruto and sasuke had in the kaguya fight, heavily outweigh the contributions they had in the momoshiki fight.

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    • You are not considering that naruto sasuke were more experienced now

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    • Yes I am, I'm also considering they were weakened in the momoshiki fight. My point still stands.

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    • And that they do not have hags chakra as adults.

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    • And why do you say that?

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    • Lorenzo VonMT wrote: Yes I am, I'm also considering they were weakened in the momoshiki fight. My point still stands.

      Sasuke can even fly with the rib cage susanoo now so even weakened their experience boost still stands, they have also managed to merge the PS instead of just the humanoid susanoo with the kurama avatar

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    • I never said their experience boost doesn't stand, I already told you I took it into consideration but it still doesn't make up for the 6+ times kaguya could have won their fight if they didn't have help. I also don't see how flying with ribcage susanoo is relevant in terms of growth. If you're gonna talk about revenant growth, mention sasuke's new portal ability or naruto's full kurama.

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    • Lorenzo VonMT wrote: And why do you say that?

      Cause chakra boosts are temp.

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    • If it was so you are saying base Naruto is able to take blows from a guy who is amped and scared Kaguya, with no six paths chakra in him?

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    • When did he took blows from him?

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    • in the boruto manga which is cannon

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    • Kakashisologod1 wrote:

      Lorenzo VonMT wrote: And why do you say that?

      Cause chakra boosts are temp.

      Was it really explicitly stated that there was ever a difference between Six Paths chakra's? No right? So I really don't think it's fair to think otherwise.

      Sure they may not have the chakra that Hagoromo originally gave them, but they clearly still have Six Paths chakra of their own, but is it really any different than the chakra Hagoromo gave them?

      Six Paths chakra is Six Paths chakra. It may not be Hagoromo's Six Paths Chakra, but I highly doubt there is a difference between Naruto's SP Chakra, to Hagoromo's own SP chakra.

      I doubt theres a difference in "purity", as some of you may say it, since he originally awakened it from the legit source.

      It's not like it's some kind of bootleg SP chakra lmao.

      /cough/ Madara eating Hashi's flesh /cough/

      And even then we can't even determine if there was a real difference between the two, since he awakened the Rinnegan.

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    • They probably still have the SP chakra, but they lost the seals that allow them to create the six paths CT, otherwise all their powers reside this is shown as they lost the seals but they are still just as strong in the final fight, with no seals, but the six paths chakra is still there, they still have it

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    • if naruto in SPSM cant beat him in tajjutsu why do u think base naruto can?o_O
      
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    • he punched him so hard the mountain he bumped in to fell apart in the movie, and his base he was able to dodge, and block some hits, then he went SPSM and a stomp occured, in terms of taijutsu. What I am saying his base has absorbed the six paths chakra the one with the cross eyes in base. The SPSM is when he mixes that one with the bijuu chakra, which is what Naruto shows

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    • And u are saying that momoshiki is somehow stronger than kaguya when base naruto was fighting on par with him?

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    • I am saying that the only reason Naruto in base was able to block some attacks is because he absorbed the six paths chakra in to his base. Also if she stomped so hard on him then there was no reason for her to fight her sons, or build the white zetsu army, or to create black zetsu

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    • Mobzzzzz5 wrote: I am saying that the only reason Naruto in base was able to block some attacks is because he absorbed the six paths chakra in to his base. Also if she stomped so hard on him then there was no reason for her to fight her sons, or build the white zetsu army, or to create black zetsu

      why did she fought her sons? because she was greedy.

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    • if she was greedy and stronger than him then she would not need the army it does not add up with her being stronger than him

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    • why not? She was paranoid about sharing her chakra. Emphasis on HER

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    • I agree that she is paranoid, but the zetsu army is way too weak to fight them, with like a couple sweeps of his new weapons momo would wipe them out. She logically would not do that. He was stated to be a greater threat for a reason, if he does not have hax like the ash bone or the ETSB then he is bound to be stronger than her considering she could destroy his rinnegan with simple ash bones. With all that at her disposal, the only way for him to be a greater threat is brute force which he has shown, in the instance of using his base form, knocking out Naruto. And he was holding back because he did not want to kill Naruto, in fact he was holding back for Naruto the entire fight as he did not want to kill him. Kaguya on the other hand tried to kill them, and failed, she was unable to do so, given they were saved 2X, otherwise they were able to royally piss her off, making her use her strongest attack which would have wiped out her main dimension where she has a direct connection to the god tree. So for her to be willing to give up that boost she must have seen no other option, while during the entire fight, Momo had an objective that kept him from Killing Naruto, if it weren't for Boruto, they would have been dead and Naruto's chakra would have been taken.

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    • Can a mod please close this thread? Its going nowhere, I'm sure the people here are tired of repeating the same thing over and over again to one person.

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    • Momoshiki did not hold back entire fight,only when he wanted to Shoot naruto with TBB,but we most remember that the only reason he had a chance to do so was because of those two guys that boosted him.

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    • he specifically said but you must not die fox, so he held back so that Naruto would not die

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    • Mobzzzzz5 wrote: he specifically said but you must not die fox, so he held back so that Naruto would not die

      And again,he said that WHEN he was about to fire TB.

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    • ye which means the chakra he put in there was specifically made for him not to kill Naruto

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    • Witch he was not able to fire anyways.

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    • what do you mean?

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    • Please stop making excuses, he might have held back against naruto but he didn't against sasuke who is equal to naruto. Kaguya was holding back against both of them for 90% of the fight so you have no ground to stand on.

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    • Lorenzo VonMT wrote: Please stop making excuses, he might have held back against naruto but he didn't against sasuke who is equal to naruto. Kaguya was holding back against both of them for 90% of the fight so you have no ground to stand on.

      I'm the one making excuses, where was it ever stated that she was holding back, what I am saying is factual, and by the way Momo knocked out Sasuke with that flaming rock thing, if it weren't for Naruto, Sasuke would have been out for a while

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    • Then you obviously weren't paying attention, kaguya was keeping naruto and sasuke alive because she wanted to absorb their chakra. It wasn't until zetsu convinced her to kill them in chapter 684 page 13 that she started going all out.

      Mobzzzzz5 wrote: by the way Momo knocked out Sasuke with that flaming rock thing, if it weren't for Naruto, Sasuke would have been out for a while

      Do you want me to start naming all the 6+ times kaguya could have killed naruto and sasuke if they weren't saved by someone or if she wasn't trying to kill them? Because you'll lose very quickly.

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    • First of all, page 15 of that chapter for those who say switching dimensions is easy for Kaguya, zetsu says it uses alot of her chakra, second that is no where near 90% of the fight in fact it is about 50% considering the fight starts at 680, and ends at 689. Yes she nearly killed them many times, but the same happened with Momo, Sasuke got K.O and Naruto got K.O, Kage got oneshotted, and if it weren't for boruto's rasengan they would have been dead, and Naruto's chakra taken. Also let's talk about the failed attempts to kill him, like when she first shot an ash bone at him, through a portal none the less, and he just dodged it, so Even with portals on her side she could not land one on him, and that was a clone that is clearly weaker than the original

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