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  • Rachin123
    Rachin123 closed this thread because:
    Too long.
    02:11, March 23, 2017

    In the boruto manga/ movie, Naruto lost a significant amount of chakra prior to his fight with momshiki, however he was still able to put up a good fight, with sasuke, who was also tired due to the portal creation ,but what if Naruto was at full power. My question is who do you think would win between Momoshiki after the absorption of kinshiki, and Naruto without having any chakra absorbed. My money is on Naruto because he has become so much stronger since he got the other half of Kurama. There has been a pattern of Naruto getting weakened before a big fight for some reason, like having all his chakra sucked out before fighting Toneri, and having a lot of chakra sucked out before fighting Momoshiki, why do you think that is, I think it is because he has become so strong.

    The setting is in one of the alternate dimensions, so Naruto can fight to his hearts content not worrying about the planet's conditions, after the fight, Naruto has prior knowledge of Momoshiki's abilities

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    • Momoshiki is no TTJ Madara or Kaguya. I'm sure Naruto at full power could kill him, even when he absorbed his father.

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    • QuakingStar wrote: Momoshiki is no TTJ Madara or Kaguya. I'm sure Naruto at full power could kill him, even when he absorbed his father.

      I agree but he is a considerable foe, it's just that the kage over prepared, they were told a decade prior to Momo's arival that they were up against a threat greater than Kaguya which makes sense considering how scared she was of them ,so he is stronger than her, but Naruto and Sasuke got so much stronger that it didn't matter.

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    • No they didn't. Nothing to indicate that at all. It was Momo and Kinshiki as separate entities that she feared, because she already know Momo could absorb stuff and had those chakra pills. She knew what they both could do together. Naruto had no time to train as Hokage and Kurama even calls him rusty and pitiful in the Gaiden, Sasuke didn't really train either.. he spent his whole time investigating Kaguya, and helping the people of the world. 1v1 Kaguya kills Momo, same for Kinshiki.. she could also kill MomoKin. Naruto and Sasuke have not gotten any stronger than The Last versions of themselves.

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    • QuakingStar wrote: No they didn't. Nothing to indicate that at all. It was Momo and Kinshiki as separate entities that she feared, because she already know Momo could absorb stuff and had those chakra pills. She knew what they both could do together. Naruto had no time to train as Hokage and Kurama even calls him rusty and pitiful in the Gaiden, Sasuke didn't really train either.. he spent his whole time investigating Kaguya, and helping the people of the world. 1v1 Kaguya kills Momo, same for Kinshiki.. she could also kill MomoKin. Naruto and Sasuke have not gotten any stronger than The Last versions of themselves.

      They got weaker duo to not training.

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    • QuakingStar wrote: No they didn't. Nothing to indicate that at all. It was Momo and Kinshiki as separate entities that she feared, because she already know Momo could absorb stuff and had those chakra pills. She knew what they both could do together. Naruto had no time to train as Hokage and Kurama even calls him rusty and pitiful in the Gaiden, Sasuke didn't really train either.. he spent his whole time investigating Kaguya, and helping the people of the world. 1v1 Kaguya kills Momo, same for Kinshiki.. she could also kill MomoKin. Naruto and Sasuke have not gotten any stronger than The Last versions of themselves.

      Their the last versions at full power are stronger than their war arc selves. Naruto never stopped going on missions + other half of Kurama, and sasuke mastered his rinnegan, if she feared them separately, combined is even scarier, it's like hen goku and vegeta fuse, the result is stronger than them fighting together against an opponent, so the end result is him being stronger than what she expected of them combined, so stronger than Kaguya. For those who think that Naruto and Sasuke got weaker, think about this. First Sasuke, who during the fight with Kaguya could not even get himself out of a dimension, now he is even capable of taking other people with him in and out of dimensions, so there is that immense boost. Naruto only got rusty, not weaker, rusty refers to skill, not power, and considering he got Kuramas other half, he only got stronger, than before, as we see during the fight he is able to wipe away mountains with mere punches.

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    • Naruto would definitely win. The weakest version of naruto(who you could argue wasn't at full stamina and rusty) is able to dodge,react and block super momo's strike despite being on the defense & overwhelmed. Once naruto activated his rikduou form, he immediately turned the tables on momoshiki. That wasn't even naruto's strongest form either. I don't see how momoshiki could deal with naruto's ashura avatar, i doubt he's absorbing jutsu like tailed beast ball rasenshuriken.

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    • OnlineLurker wrote: Naruto would definitely win. The weakest version of naruto(who you could argue wasn't at full stamina and rusty) is able to dodge,react and block super momo's strike despite being on the defense & overwhelmed. Once naruto activated his rikduou form, he immediately turned the tables on momoshiki. That wasn't even naruto's strongest form either. I don't see how momoshiki could deal with naruto's ashura avatar, i doubt he's absorbing jutsu like tailed beast ball rasenshuriken.

      Actually he could absorb it and release it at double, I agree with your conclusion that Naruto would win, since the end of the war Naruto's base has grown stronger, like in the last he was throwing rasenshuriken with no need to access sage mode, and now he is able to go hand to hand with someone comparable to Kaguya so yeah he has gotten so much stronger.

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    • If anything, the Boruto manga showed Naruto kind of opposide than the Gaiden. I mean in Boruto, he was the only kage that reacted to Momoshiki after he absorbed Kinshiki,and that was his base mode, so one could argue that even in his base mode he's still faster and has better reaction senses than the rest of the Kage.Now goind back to the Gaiden, in his SPSM he wasn't able to react to a sword? That's BS.SPSM is supposed to empower the user's reflexes and sensing to far greater extends.And i doubt that this has anything to do with training.During the war he litteraly had it for like couple of hours max and was able the sense Madara's limbo and dodge it, and also dodge Kaguya. The same with Sasuke.In Boruto he can notice Boruto's rasengan and even notice Momoshiki's time stop, but in Gaiden he can't notice that his own sword was marked? The gaiden kind of dropped the ball, and i really don't like reading much into it.

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    • Vladosaurus wrote: If anything, the Boruto manga showed Naruto kind of opposide than the Gaiden. I mean in Boruto, he was the only kage that reacted to Momoshiki after he absorbed Kinshiki,and that was his base mode, so one could argue that even in his base mode he's still faster and has better reaction senses than the rest of the Kage.Now goind back to the Gaiden, in his SPSM he wasn't able to react to a sword? That's BS.SPSM is supposed to empower the user's reflexes and sensing to far greater extends.And i doubt that this has anything to do with training.During the war he litteraly had it for like couple of hours max and was able the sense Madara's limbo and dodge it, and also dodge Kaguya. The same with Sasuke.In Boruto he can notice Boruto's rasengan and even notice Momoshiki's time stop, but in Gaiden he can't notice that his own sword was marked? The gaiden kind of dropped the ball, and i really don't like reading much into it.

      Like I said they were rusty, not weaker, if anything, they are much stronger.

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    • Mobzzzzz5 wrote:

      OnlineLurker wrote: Naruto would definitely win. The weakest version of naruto(who you could argue wasn't at full stamina and rusty) is able to dodge,react and block super momo's strike despite being on the defense & overwhelmed. Once naruto activated his rikduou form, he immediately turned the tables on momoshiki. That wasn't even naruto's strongest form either. I don't see how momoshiki could deal with naruto's ashura avatar, i doubt he's absorbing jutsu like tailed beast ball rasenshuriken.

      Actually he could absorb it and release it at double

      in fact if naruto is on SPSM momoshiki can't absorb it due to having sage chakra, he can turn them into chakra pills but there would come a time he would need those chakra pills he created from absorbing the tailed beast ball rasenshuriken and if he eats them he turns into a frog statue

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    • Momoshiki never absorbed anything on that level of power before, we can't just assume he can. Besides even if he can, that still doesn't change the outcome of the fight.

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    • OnlineLurker wrote: Momoshiki never absorbed anything on that level of power before, we can't just assume he can. Besides even if he can, that still doesn't change the outcome of the fight.

      He has not been shown to have limits with his absorption, it is not like Toneri's justsu which clearly had a limit, this one absorbs a technique, and immediately releases it with double the force, so a problem of limits has not occured so we cannot assume that there are limits to this ability.

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    • Uzumaki1naruto wrote:

      Mobzzzzz5 wrote:

      OnlineLurker wrote: Naruto would definitely win. The weakest version of naruto(who you could argue wasn't at full stamina and rusty) is able to dodge,react and block super momo's strike despite being on the defense & overwhelmed. Once naruto activated his rikduou form, he immediately turned the tables on momoshiki. That wasn't even naruto's strongest form either. I don't see how momoshiki could deal with naruto's ashura avatar, i doubt he's absorbing jutsu like tailed beast ball rasenshuriken.

      Actually he could absorb it and release it at double

      in fact if naruto is on SPSM momoshiki can't absorb it due to having sage chakra, he can turn them into chakra pills but there would come a time he would need those chakra pills he created from absorbing the tailed beast ball rasenshuriken and if he eats them he turns into a frog statue

      Pain absorbed rasen shurkien but didnt turn into a frog.Only when u have a direct contact with the sage mode user u will turn into a frog.Also Vs kaguya naruto and the last naruto are the strongest versions.

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    • Kakashisologod wrote:

      Uzumaki1naruto wrote:

      Mobzzzzz5 wrote:

      OnlineLurker wrote: Naruto would definitely win. The weakest version of naruto(who you could argue wasn't at full stamina and rusty) is able to dodge,react and block super momo's strike despite being on the defense & overwhelmed. Once naruto activated his rikduou form, he immediately turned the tables on momoshiki. That wasn't even naruto's strongest form either. I don't see how momoshiki could deal with naruto's ashura avatar, i doubt he's absorbing jutsu like tailed beast ball rasenshuriken.

      Actually he could absorb it and release it at double

      in fact if naruto is on SPSM momoshiki can't absorb it due to having sage chakra, he can turn them into chakra pills but there would come a time he would need those chakra pills he created from absorbing the tailed beast ball rasenshuriken and if he eats them he turns into a frog statue

      Pain absorbed rasen shurkien but didnt turn into a frog.Only when u have a direct contact with the sage mode user u will turn into a frog.Also Vs kaguya naruto and the last naruto are the strongest versions.

      back there naruto was just adapted with senjutsu chakra while as hokage he can enter it without preperations, imagine in six paths sage mode how immense sage chakra would be in a jutsu like tailed beast rasenshuriken (he needs the help of kurama to do that which means that kurama also is using sage chakra because of naruto's six paths sage mode) hokage naruto is the strongest version

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    • @JouXIII sorry

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    • And?I am saying that pain absorbed rasen shuriken and didnt turn into a frog,but did after absorbing little amount of chakra from naruto.Hokage naruto is the weakest version.

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    • @kakashi read the full comment hokage naruto is the strongest one and everyone here knows it ;P

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    • Uzumaki1naruto wrote: @kakashi read the full comment hokage naruto is the strongest one and everyone here knows it ;P

      Kappa.Many people dissagree.

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    • he wouldn't turn into a frog, and stuff, imo, cuz he wouldn't be adding the chakra from said jutsu to himself. its as if someone shot an arrow at him, and he dodged it, took the arrow, and used it for later, instead of just waiting in the open, trying to get the arrow midair. he never touches the arrow while its "active".. get my point? he only uses the others person's arrow (jutsu/chakra), after he has it safely for picking (stolen, but not necessarily absorbed), and puts it to use with his own arrow (he adds his own chakra to said jutsu/chakra, instead of the opposite). but Naruto would win, imo

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    • @Lorenzo kudos for you man.

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    • I know right... I thinks its because I was watching BRAVE lol...

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    • 2 points to make, Hokage Naruto is both rusty and the strongest Naruto to date, if anyone asks for an argument I will give it. Secondly Momoshiki would not turn in to a frog as the only thing that can hurt him is Natural energy/ six paths chakra, or taijutsu, He is just like the juubi jinjuricki or Kaguya, who are also only hurt by those 2 things

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    • I would also like to point out few things.
      one Naruto hasn't been hokage for very long time, barely 2-3 years(or at best 5 years) that's not enough time for someone of naruto's caliber to lose his skill. And two even as hokage he was catering to village's needs via shadow clones, so I believe he still not that rusty.
      two even if momoshiki could absorb naruto's rasenshuriken(and remember it's a big if) I don't think he could return the attack with double power, since inorder to double that much he would need too many chakra pills. That's suicide strategy given that even 2xor 3x won't guarantee naruto's defeat since naruto can always counter with his own powerful attack. Momo would just waste the pill at this rate.
      third If naruto really wanted he could have tapped danced with momoshiki/Rinnegan user using frog kata. And momoshiki won't be able to counter such an attack.(INVISIBLE, won't know from where the attack's coming).Even if naruto goes for taijutsu he's more than a match for momo going by his past feats.

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    • @Namikazenaruto9: I like the taijutsu argument, everytime he lands it thats a mountain busting punch, that is a battle I would have liked to see

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    • Please show me momoshiki absorbing an attack even close to naruto's ashura bijuudama rasenshuriken. If not, then we can't assume he can absorb it. Unless, you put that in as a condition where he can absorb any jutsu no matter how strong it is.

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    • OnlineLurker wrote: Please show me momoshiki absorbing an attack even close to naruto's ashura bijuudama rasenshuriken. If not, then we can't assume he can absorb it. Unless, you put that in as a condition where he can absorb any jutsu no matter how strong it is.

      There is none as they were aware that he could absorb jutsu, so they did not use any. If he absorbs any of the attacks he could amp them way beyond double. Like when he absorbed B's bijuu dama then used it it was able to knock out Naruto who is far stronger than 2x B. So if he did the same for example with one of Naruto's bijuu damas, it would do some damage, to say the least, possibly posing a threat to the entire planet.

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    • Funny how sasuke said naruto could easily wipe out momoshiki's attack. Sasuke was worried about the surrounding area being destroyed by naruto's attack rather than the possibility of momoshiki absorbing it. That has to tell you something? By the way, momoshiki enhances jutsu with his chakra. He was able to make killer bee's bijuudama much more powerful because of it. That doesn't mean however, that he can do the same with jutsu from naruto, who has far more powerful chakra than bee.

      If we go by your assumption, Momoshiki could likely shoot out a stronger bijuudama than naruto since he's adding his own chakra into the mix. Will he be able to make it tens of times stronger though? I highly doubt that since like i said, naruto is far superior than killer bee in chakra. Do you get what i'm trying to say?

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    • Yeah I do, and I agree with the fact that Naruto would beat him, but I'm saying it would be low-diff, not absolute curb-stomp, but I wish that that fight had actually happened just those two battling it out, it would be nice to see.

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    • I wasn't trying to say it was going to be a stomp. In fact, momoshiki could have a chance to win, if he prevents naruto from conjuring ashura's avatar. I just think that if naruto conjures that up, things could get ugly for momoshiki real fast. We should just leave momoshiki's absorption limit or whatever as "unknown" then.

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    • I agree, I have a question, do you think if they went all out, that they could destroy the planet?

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    • If Kaguya feared Momoshiki and Kinshiki, who Naruto and Sasuke could not "defeat", why on earth does anyone think that Naruto alone can defeat Momoshiki fused with Kinshiki.

      Also, why am I hearing about Naruto having mountain busting punches? And that his Rasenshuriken and Sasuke's Indra's Arrow are both planet busters. This is not fanon. Stick the facts please.

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    • @Lorenzo how can you think that momoshiki can dodge an attack like that

      also when "he puts it to use" he needs to eat the chakra pills in order to make a jutsu thus adding the stolen chakra to himself and using it, that means that he firstly needs to absorb tailed beast ball rasenshruriken, he may choosenot to use it but eventually would come a time he'd need those chakra pills and he'll eat them which means he will "eat" the jutsu and the massive sage chakra in it will turn it into a frog statue
      

      @kakashi a sage art rasenshuriken hasn't the same amount of sage chakra like in a sage art tailed beast ball rasenshuriken performed by SPSM hokage naruto and also pain when absorbed the rasenshuriken didn't absorb all the sage chakra of nauto and that was proven when he absorbed chakrs from naruto

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    • Rachin123 wrote: If Kaguya feared Momoshiki and Kinshiki, who Naruto and Sasuke could not "defeat", why on earth does anyone think that Naruto alone can defeat Momoshiki fused with Kinshiki.

      Also, why am I hearing about Naruto having mountain busting punches? And that his Rasenshuriken and Sasuke's Indra's Arrow are both planet busters. This is not fanon. Stick the facts please.

      As far as I have read no one has said anything about planet busting attacks except for my question, the reason I believe Naruto could beat him is that Naruto got so much stronger since he got the other half of Kurama, and when he and Sasuke fought Momoshiki they were weakened, as Naruto had lost chakra as a result of Momoshiki sucking it out, and Sasuke had opened the portal which drains him as well, yet they were still able to beat him. In the Boruto Movie Naruto threw a punch that wiped out a mountain, watch the fight, then you will know what I am talking about.

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    • I'm not sure. I've read calcs of naruto and sasuke's final attack at the end of the old series, being around moon level. They could at least, cause alot of damage on the surface though.

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    • Fair enough, but you have to consider how much stronger they got since then, and you have the Zai No Sho saying that Kinshiki can split worlds, and stuff like that that hint towards planet busting, so think about that as well.

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    • @OnlineLurker

      I hope you are not talking about the calcs from the Versus Battle Wiki because those are being done over because people scaled them too high. And even then, you are taking a leap of fate with them.

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    • Rachin123 wrote: If Kaguya feared Momoshiki and Kinshiki, who Naruto and Sasuke could not "defeat", why on earth does anyone think that Naruto alone can defeat Momoshiki fused with Kinshiki.

      Also, why am I hearing about Naruto having mountain busting punches? And that his Rasenshuriken and Sasuke's Indra's Arrow are both planet busters. This is not fanon. Stick the facts please.

      Woah, calm down. Don't need to be rude. You are the moderator here. Regardless, i agree with you. No one in Narutoverse has shown planet busting feat save for Kaguya with her Expansive Truth-Seeking Ball. They are continent busting level at best IMO. As for Naruto, i think only his VOTE2 version has chance to take down Momoshiki-Kinshiki by himself, though it's still debatable.

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    • @Savage Sage

      I really don't even know what you are talking about. I am calm and I am not being rude.

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    • I've read calcs similar to that on other forums. What would you say their highest destructive capacity is then?

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    • Rachin123 wrote: @OnlineLurker

      I hope you are not talking about the calcs from the Versus Battle Wiki because those are being done over because people scaled them too high.

      That could be false considering what I said in my last comment, like the Zai No Sho states Kinshiki can split worlds, plural, which can be lowballed to Planet level, and then there is Momoshiki who is around Kinshiki level, so his power is doubled making him at least Multi-Planet level, and a weakened Naruto and Sasuke take him out, so Moon level is not too far fetched

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    • You know that can be taken as exaggeration. It doesn't have to be taken word for word. It could just mean he's really, really powerful. I mean even Madara said his Perfect Susanoo's sword can destroy the universe. Now if that were true, even half of that power could have wiped the entire shinobi force out, including Naruto and Sasuke. Also, for someone who is apparently is planet level, he hasn't displayed half the power it would take to do it, even when combined with Kinshiki. And Sasuke was not weakened. He had no problem maintaining his Rinnegan and creating another portal to go home, so while it might have token a bit of a toll, clearly it was nothing big.

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    • Rachin123 wrote: You know that can be taken as exaggeration. It doesn't have to be taken word for word. It could just mean he's really, really powerful. I mean even Madara said his Perfect Susanoo's sword can destroy the universe. Now if that were true, even half of that power could have wiped the entire shinobi force out, including Naruto and Sasuke. Also, for someone who is apparently is planet level, he hasn't displayed half the power it would take to do it, even when combined with Kinshiki. And Sasuke was not weakened. He had no problem maintaining his Rinnegan and creating another portal to go home, so while it might have token a bit of a toll, clearly it was nothing big.

      The argument of not having displayed it is invalid its like saying goku is only a moon level, since he has never been shown to destroy a planet, a star, or a galaxy, so its that kind of argument, we know he can it was just never his objective, just like there's was just to revive the shinju, not to kill everyone.. The hyperbolic argument would work if it was an out of line statement like temari blowing away the universe, but since they are close to this level, it is no longer hyperbolic, but realistic, especially considering that I lowballed it.

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    • Actually, i do agree that some exaggerate naruto & sasuke being "tired" or weakened. They've been through an entire war and still were performing great.

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    • Rachin123 wrote: @Savage Sage

      I really don't even know what you are talking about. I am calm and I am not being rude.

      Ok then. I'm sorry to mistook you for being rude.

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    • OnlineLurker wrote: Actually, i do agree that some exaggerate naruto & sasuke being "tired" or weakened. They've been through an entire war and still were performing great.

      Well during that war, Sasuke was never able to open a portal with his rinnegan, if it weren't for Obito he would have died there

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    • Mobzzzzz5 wrote:

      OnlineLurker wrote: Actually, i do agree that some exaggerate naruto & sasuke being "tired" or weakened. They've been through an entire war and still were performing great.

      Well during that war, Sasuke was never able to open a portal with his rinnegan, if it weren't for Obito he would have died there

      Add kakashis help+sakuras.Thats the only reason the defeated kaguya.@Uzumaki1naruto dosent matter.I gave u an example of the diffrence between making contact with the sage mode user and absorbing his jutsu.Wether he can absorb more chakra or not does not change that.

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    • @Uzumaki1naruto: yeah the amount of sage chakra doesn't make a difference at all, because there are only 3 things that can hurt the otsutukis: Six paths chakra, Natural energy, and taijutsu, sasuke uses 2, the kage use taijutsu, and Naruto can use all 3

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    • Mobzzzzz5 wrote: The argument of not having displayed it is invalid its like saying goku is only a moon level, since he has never been shown to destroy a planet, a star, or a galaxy, so its that kind of argument, we know he can it was just never his objective, just like there's was just to revive the shinju, not to kill everyone.. The hyperbolic argument would work if it was an out of line statement like temari blowing away the universe, but since they are close to this level, it is no longer hyperbolic, but realistic, especially considering that I lowballed it.

      You are trying to compare Naruto to DBZ. They aren't even remotely similar. There logic goes by the amount of chi a person has. If a person with a certain amount of chi can destroy a moon, so can anyone with the samee or higher amount of chi. Same goes for their speed, durability, etc. The closet any member in Naruto had displayed moon level feat, is when Toneri cut the moon, but even then he didn't destroy and we honestly have no proof that he could have. We surely can assume. But, seeing as Naruto characters were never made to be like DBZ in the first place, none of them are really planet busters and such. Their best are about large mountain busters. Maybe collectively Naruto and Sasuke could be continent level, and I'm being generous.

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    • Ok for starters the force required to split a planet is the same as the force required to split a planet without its gravitational force pulling it back together, thats first. And secondly you are saying that Toneri who is moon level given that statement, is stronger than Naruto and sasuke combined? just think about what you have said, even splitting a hollow moon is Multi-continent, so you are saying Naruto, while in s weakened state who pushed that attack back with ease, then there is the fact that he is using a stronger form now, the next step from Multi-Continent is moon so I do not know where you got continent at best.

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    • I don't know what you are rambling on about. I never said Toneri was stronger than Naruto and Sasuke. I didn't even say Toneri was a moon buster. What I said was the closest to a moon buster we seen was Toneri and all he did was cut the moon. You have to actually be able to destroy the moon. It takes lot more power to actually do such feat. And if Toneri was such a moon buster, did he really need the moon to crash down on Earth?

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    • Yes because he never wanted to destroy earth, he only needed to ruin the surface, a moon busting attack would hurt the not just the atmosphere, but the actual shape, and functions of the planet

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    • Like I said. The best we seen of a moon busting attack in Naruto is when Toneri cut the moon. If you wanna take that as he could destroy the moon, go ahead, but I have every right to believe that that is the best of his ability.

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    • Well toneri induvidually is stronger than naruto and sasuke.Edit:Naruto and sasuke are not moon lvl,but they are surely above mountain lvl.So something in between.

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    • Rachin123 wrote: Like I said. The best we seen of a moon busting attack in Naruto is when Toneri cut the moon. If you wanna take that as he could destroy the moon, go ahead, but I have every right to believe that that is the best of his ability.

      That is fair for you to stick to your opinion

      Kakashisologod wrote: Well toneri induvidually is stronger than naruto and sasuke.Edit:Naruto and sasuke are not moon lvl,but they are surely above mountain lvl.So something in between.

      Mountain level is out of the question, the databooks clearly mark Oodama rasengan as being capable of and I quote "easily carving away a mountain," and this is part of the description, not the tagline so not a hyperbolic statement. When Naruto first used bijuu mode the explosion of the 2 bijuu bombs was around island level. In the boruto movie Naruto threw a punch that wiped away a mountain, while weakened, so don't rank them as somwhere inbetween moon and mountain, Mountains are fodder for them.

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    • Naruto didnt use a punch that destroyed a mountain.

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    • Mobzzzzz5 wrote: When Naruto first used bijuu mode the explosion of the 2 bijuu bombs was around island level.

      You do realize that island doesn't have to be huge. Literally an island can be just sizable enough for one person. I have no doubt it was the explosions of two biju bombs can be small island level, but huge island level, I don't think so.

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    • @Mobzzzzz5 Surely, fighting against several enemies in the same day is more taxing than opening a portal? Like Rachin123 said, unlike gaiden, sasuke's doujutsu didn't even downgrade to a regular rinnegan after entering momoshiki's world/dimension. No one was complaining about being tired or rusty either.

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    • I think that since toneri cut the moon in half, hollow or not, the moon is still as long as Australia. that means the he could literally cut Australia in half. if Naruto wasn't even at his full power in that fight, and still withstood that attack, the he could cut at least 3 Australias, by logic. and another thing that people seem to forget is that the Naruto in the momo fight wasn't at his full power at all. he was tired, sure, but that's not what I mean, nor is it the main factor in this taijutsu battle. anybody ever thought that he didn't even use frog kata, chakra arms, kurama chakra-waves, sensing of any type, and other senjutsu skills at any moment in that battle? if he were to use it, tired or not, he would still win, by not using a single jutsu. the one jutsu that will obviously appear, and its the perfect jutsu for this battle, is the kage bushin. Naruto wins.

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    • Kage bunshin can be absorbed though^^.Also vs toneri naruto both lost and no,he was at full power.That KSM naruto was meant to be equal to his SPSM,but they didnt animated it yet.

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    • Kakashisologod wrote: Well toneri induvidually is stronger than naruto and sasuke.Edit:Naruto and sasuke are not moon lvl,but they are surely above mountain lvl.So something in between.

      toneri isn't stronger than any of them, this was shown when naruto only needed one punch to beat him down (toneri himself stated this "you beated me with one punch")

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    • I know this is not the time, nor the place, but can Naruto use body flicker, or is he just fast? (cuz boruto, in the last chap, throws a shuriken at Naruto, but Naruto catches it, and boruto says its unfair that he used shunshin). im confused.

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    • @Lorenzo i was confused about it too but if you want some extra info you can find it here => http://naruto.answers.wikia.com/wiki/Thread:78392 me too sorry for not the suitable place or time to write it

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    • Rachin123 wrote: You are trying to compare Naruto to DBZ. They aren't even remotely similar. There logic goes by the amount of chi a person has. If a person with a certain amount of chi can destroy a moon, so can anyone with the samee or higher amount of chi. Same goes for their speed, durability, etc. The closet any member in Naruto had displayed moon level feat, is when

      Not even DBZ uses ABC logic. Sorry to go off-topic

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    • UltimaDude wrote: Not even DBZ uses ABC logic. Sorry to go off-topic

      For the most part, yes it does. If you have higher chi than someone, you will ultimately beat them. There are of course exceptions.

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    • lol no androids have chi hahaha lol

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    • Rachin123 wrote: For the most part, yes it does. If you have higher chi than someone, you will ultimately beat them. There are of course exceptions.

      While that part is true, that doesn't mean that having higher Ki means triumphing your opponent in everyway (being stronger, faster, being more durable, and etc). That is what ABC logic is

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    • its works 90 percent of the time, though.

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    • Lorenzo.r.1st wrote: lol no androids have chi hahaha lol

      I know that. That's why I said it is exceptions. But, for the most part, for those with chi, that defines who is stronger.

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    • yo, if Naruto was like dragon ball, kaguya would have never been beaten hahaha imagine that shit lol

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    • Uzumaki1naruto wrote:

      Kakashisologod wrote: Well toneri induvidually is stronger than naruto and sasuke.Edit:Naruto and sasuke are not moon lvl,but they are surely above mountain lvl.So something in between.

      toneri isn't stronger than any of them, this was shown when naruto only needed one punch to beat him down (toneri himself stated this "you beated me with one punch")

      Who needed hinata to help him defeat toneri?

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    • Naruto didn't, since he only got hamura's chakra after he beat toneri.

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    • I can remember Toneri using a attack that basically killed Naruto by draining almost all his chakra and even reaching to the moon to do damage. I wonder why he didn't do that again. Because Naruto would have lost.

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    • sure... so, tell me, when has the same attack worked on Naruto? ever? yeah, exactly. oh, and since he was in sm/bm, the chakra that would be drained wouldn't even be his in the first place.

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    • Plot. Naruto loses without plot and friends to help him.

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    • so, learning from ur mistakes, and asking for help is plot?.... yeaaaaah, no.... I still don't see ur point man... sorry

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    • Guys if you watch the boruto movie fight, Naruto punched momo so hard that when he hit a mountain, it was destroyed. And there is no way in hell that toneri is stronger than Naruto, or sasuke, Naruto beat him without even being in his strongest form, the only thing toneri had over Naruto was hax, nothing else

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    • @kakashisologod toneri's ability to absorb is limited as if you saw it he would be dead if he absorbed more from naruto's chakra, also naruto didn't seem to have lost much chakra from toneri's absorption which means if they were placed to fight against eachother again, naruto could give him plenty of his chakra to absorb and then let him die

      sth else if toneri absorbs too much nature energy from naruto ... well.. u know

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    • Lorenzo.r.1st wrote: sure... so, tell me, when has the same attack worked on Naruto? ever? yeah, exactly. oh, and since he was in sm/bm, the chakra that would be drained wouldn't even be his in the first place.

      His SM chakra isnt unlimited,toneri drained almost all of his chakra to the point he couldnt even enter in any mode.@Uzumaki1naruto toneri also has SPS,he can balance it just fine.

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    • hahahahah

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    • Mcpowa wrote: hahahahah

      To this thread yea,naruto mid diff.

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    • Guys we have all agreed that Naruto would win correct?

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    • No I haven't agreed to this. And just so you know it doesn't matter how many people agree, it's about what you bring to the table.

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    • Rachin123 wrote: No I haven't agreed to this. And just so you know it doesn't matter how many people agree, it's about what you bring to the table.

      And what is your argument exactly, against the general consensus?

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    • I already said what I Naruto would lose to Kimoshiki (See what I did there). I could care less what the general consensus is.

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    • Rachin123 wrote: I already said what I Naruto would lose to Kimoshiki (See what I did there). I could care less what the general consensus is.

      Kimoshiki=new character!:P

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    • I seriously don't see how a fresh Naruto would lose against Momoshiki. All it took for him to kill him was a big-ass Rasengan he created while drained and restrained by black receivers. Naruto can use clone feints to disable Momoshiki's absorbing Rinnegan and finish him off. I can't say how hard it would be for Naruto to win, but I believe he would win.

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    • Plot was the reason for Kimoshiki's defeat.

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    • Rachin123 wrote: Plot was the reason for Kimoshiki's defeat.

      So using actual strategies is because of plot? Plot saved Momoshiki from getting destroyed earlier in the arc.

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    • Rachin123 wrote:

      If Kaguya feared Momoshiki and Kinshiki, who Naruto and Sasuke could not "defeat", why on earth does anyone think that Naruto alone can defeat Momoshiki fused with Kinshiki.
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    • Rachin123 wrote:

      Rachin123 wrote: If Kaguya feared Momoshiki and Kinshiki, who Naruto and Sasuke could not "defeat", why on earth does anyone think that Naruto alone can defeat Momoshiki fused with Kinshiki.

      Because kaguya being weaker than momokinshiki is a lie?
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    • @Rachin123: Naruto in base was barely able to deal with "Kimoshiki' (nice one:)) but when he entered spsm, he absolutely stomped, he was able to knock him all the way to Sasuke, and them his Kurama avatar was struggling with the lava golem, so a full power Naruto would stomp even more in Taijutsu and would at least go toe to toe with the lava golem, all this and he still has the asura mode trump card.

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    • Kakashisologod wrote: Because kaguya being weaker than momokinshiki is a lie?

      She doesn't necessarily have to be weaker, but they can prove to be a great threat to her. And if that was the case, Naruto shouldn't even solo. It makes no sense. When Momoshiki was throwing elemental attacks, it was breaking through Naruto's shield, having to need Sasuke to armor it. Then he gets knocked out by Momoshiki's Tailed Beast Ball. You mean to tell me with his moon level durability, he couldn't tank it without being knocked out. Then after having his chakra drained and in all, he still had enough chakra to create a gigantic Rasengan? Then he can apparently move just as fast as Kimoshiki who he couldn't even touch in base form before and even Sasuke needed to use the Ameno to escape Momoshiki's grasp. You can't hype a person up, show them off being powerful to the point of being threatening, and have a weaker version of the person you are fighting someone miraculously beat that person. It happened, but doesn't mean it wasn't bs. Anyone with enough sense will agree.

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    • @Rachin123 You don't have to be strong to be considered a threat. What is more of a threat, a lion or a disease-carrying mosquito? Anyone with enough sense would pick the latter. The only reason why Momoshiki and Kinshiki were considered a threat to Kaguya is because of their abilities. Momoshiki can absorb and cast any ninjutsu back at the user ten-fold. Not to mention, he can probably flat out absorb Kaguya and turn her into a fruit just like he did to Kinshiki. Kinshiki has strength and speed that can most likely pressure Kaguya. Coupled that with Momoshiki who can constantly absorb your ninjutsu and blast it back at you with 10x the power and you got yourself with a threat that even Kaguya herself is afraid of

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    • UltimaDude wrote: You don't have to be strong to be considered a threat. What is more of a threat, a lion or a disease-carrying mosquito? Anyone with enough sense would pick the latter.

      Well that is a good point, but bad representation of what's going on here. We are talking about powerful beings.

      UltimaDude wrote: The only reason why Momoshiki and Kinshiki were considered a threat to Kaguya is because of their abilities.

      You don't say??? And the point still stands. Kaguya feared them, creating an army of zetsu clones for their arrival. Since Naruto uses ninjutsu a lot, those attacks will be ineffective basically. Then Momoshiki has proven to be skilled in taijutsu and fast too. Being combined with Kinshiki who pressured Sasuke in speed and taijutsu, should have made him stronger than they displayed him to be. And that is just a fact. It doesn't make any sense. And plot is the only reason Kimoshiki was defeated. At least they could have made his defeat more acceptable than that bs.

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    • It can also be ABC logic,just because A>B and B>C dosent mean A>C

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    • Rachin123 wrote: Well that is a good point, but bad representation of what's going on here. We are talking about powerful beings.

      It still applies since the discrepancy between Kaguya and Momoshiki/Kinshiki is just as high as it is between a lion and mosquito.

      Rachin123: You don't say??? And the point still stands. Kaguya feared them, creating an army of zetsu clones for their arrival. Since Naruto uses ninjutsu a lot, those attacks will be ineffective basically. Then Momoshiki has proven to be skilled in taijutsu and fast too. Being combined with Kinshiki who pressured Sasuke in speed and taijutsu, should have made him stronger than they displayed him to be. And that is just a fact. It doesn't make any sense. And plot is the only reason Kimoshiki was defeated. At least they could have made his defeat more acceptable than that bs.

      Then you have no reason to complain. Momoshiki himself was pressured by the Kages so Mokinshiki shouldn't be as strong as you are suggesting. Not to mention that both Naruto and Sasuke (though weakened) were fighting Mokinshki, so it isn't like one of them were absolutely wrecking him. His defeat makes compete sense and is not BS. All-in-all, you are complaining for no reason

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    • Kakashisologod wrote:

      Lorenzo.r.1st wrote: sure... so, tell me, when has the same attack worked on Naruto? ever? yeah, exactly. oh, and since he was in sm/bm, the chakra that would be drained wouldn't even be his in the first place.

      His SM chakra isnt unlimited,toneri drained almost all of his chakra to the point he couldnt even enter in any mode.@Uzumaki1naruto toneri also has SPS,he can balance it just fine.

      by SPS do you mean six paths senjutsu? if that's it he doesn't have it and can't balance it, naruto after toneri's merged with byakugans entered again in senjutsu kurama mode and saved him

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    • He has it.To get TSBs u need SPS.

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    • but it's not the only way, one of them is by possessing tenseigan, please don't write uncannonal things

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    • @UltimaDude

      Not complaining. Just voicing my disdain for the bs that it very well was. If a full powered Naruto could defeat Kimoshiki (mine sounds better) by himself, than Kaguya should not be so fearful of them, seeing as Naruto and Sasuke together could not beat her. While ABC logic may not work in the Narutoverse so much like DBZ, this is very well the case with these guys in particular.

      All in all, Naruto beats Kimoshiki with plot, but he really should lose.

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    • @Rachin123 It's not BS. Kaguya's MO is ninjutsu, while Naruto has other things to rely own (e.g, tactics and diversions). Of course Kaguya would fear the individuals that severely counters the only thing she literally does. There are so many things to be considered. ABC logic doesn't work in Naruto and DBZ

      Naruto beats Kimoshiki (your'e right, it does sound better) with his powers and abilities, not plot

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    • @UltimaDude

      You mean those bs tactics and diversions that somehow these characters fall for, for plot purposes, than yea. All Kinshiki needs to do is hit Naruto with that gigantic Tailed Beast Ball twice and it's over for Naruto. One knocked him out. Sure Naruto can for the more direct taijutsu approach, but Kimoshiki has speed and taijutsu that are on par with Sasuke, so really it wouldn't matter. His best bet would be to stab that Rinnegan on Kimoshiki's hand, and seeing the bs way it happened in the movie, he would pull off because you know plot.

      Did I say ABC logic works all the time in Naruto? No I didn't. But, there are cases where it does work, you can't deny that. In DBZ it is more common and that is a fact.

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    • Uzumaki1naruto wrote: but it's not the only way, one of them is by possessing tenseigan, please don't write uncannonal things

      Where does it say that?

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    • Rachin123 wrote: You mean those bs tactics and diversions that somehow these characters fall for, for plot purposes, than yea. All Kinshiki needs to do is hit Naruto with that gigantic Tailed Beast Ball twice and it's over for Naruto. One knocked him out. Sure Naruto can for the more direct taijutsu approach, but Kimoshiki has speed and taijutsu that are on par with Sasuke, so really it wouldn't matter. His best bet would be to stab that Rinnegan on Kimoshiki's hand, and seeing the bs way it happened in the movie, he would pull off because you know plot.

      Did I say ABC logic works all the time in Naruto? No I didn't. But, there are cases where it does work, you can't deny that. In DBZ it is more common and that is a fact.

      So falling for tactics and diversions that you have never experienced is because of plot? Do you not recall the jutsu that nearly saved the world? Naruto could of easily deflect the TBB that knocked him out, but he didn't because it was taken place in the Chunin Exams. Or do you prefer me to ignore context and say it was because of plot. You are forgetting that Naruto, while in SPSM, has speed on par with Sasuke? Has the duo ever encountered ninja tactics? Oh wait, they haven't, so the way it happened wasn't BS

      But you did say that it works, which is certainly not true. ABC logic has never worked, not in Naruto and certainly not in DBZ.

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    • @UltimaDude

      I really am trying to figure out what's going through your mind because it seems that either you are being too confident in the character or in denial. Either way this is getting us nowhere. Let this be it for our conversation on the thread. Lets agree to disagree.

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    • @UltimaDude only thing i dissagree with you is ABC logic,it surely exists in naruto.

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    • Rachin123 wrote: @UltimaDude

      I really am trying to figure out what's going through your mind because it seems that either you are being too confident in the character or in denial. Either way this is getting us nowhere. Let this be it for our conversation on the thread. Lets agree to disagree.

      So now you are attempting to dismiss the debate and do an ad hominem because you can't prove your case, like at all. I already saw this coming, so it's whateves.

      @Kakashisologod Can you prove that it exists in Naruto?

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    • @UltimaDude

      I'm dismissing the case because we are at a disagreement. I'm not going to keep arguing over this when it is clear we aren't changing our minds. You want me to admit you are right? Will that make you feel better? Oh well I'm not. If you want to believe Naruto wins, that's fine for you. I don't. Don't make this out to be bigger than it really is.

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    • @UltimaDude example :Kisame B Kakashi

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    • imo ,the only reason she was afraid of momo and such, was because she sucked at taijutsu. that means her main option was ninjutsu, which would make lose, even though she would still be stronger. now, why the zetsu then? they are perfect for fighting the byaku, and they dotn use any chakra or ninjutsu, and are pretty much infinite. sounds plausible, correct? that means that Naruto is literaly, out of might guy, the worst match for kimoshiki, since a lot of his jutsu are based on taijutsu alone, besides of rasengan and jutsus like that. he has the best sensing, chakra arms, spsm, kurama's chakra-waves, which are all prefect for countering momshiki. imo that's why he wins.

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    • Rachin123 wrote: @UltimaDude

      I'm dismissing the case because we are at a disagreement. I'm not going to keep arguing over this when it is clear we aren't changing our minds. You want me to admit you are right? Will that make you feel better? Oh well I'm not. If you want to believe Naruto wins, that's fine for you. I don't. Don't make this out to be bigger than it really is.

      I want you to convince me on how Naruto loses, which you are doing a poor job. Instead of bringing sufficent evidence you simply say "plot this" and "plot that" and now you are dimissing the case while coing at me. But like I said before, whatever

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    • He already said he is done talking to you. You are the kind of person who picks what you believe and refuse to see otherwise so why would he try? Move on to another person.

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    • QuakingStar wrote: He already said he is done talking to you. You are the kind of person who picks what you believe and refuse to see otherwise so why would he try? Move on to another person.

      Was anyone talking to you? I don't think so.

      Kakashisologod wrote: Kisame B Kakashi

      What are you trying to say here?

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    • Kisame is stronger than say not full power B but V2 cloak B who is stronger than 1 eyed kakashi.But that dosent mean kisame>1 eyed kakashi.

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    • Aww he gets his feelings hurt and resorts to the "who was talking to you" line. Go cry in another forum.

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    • Okay guys. Let's just stay on topic. We don't need to antagonize one another.

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    • QuakingStar wrote: Aww he gets his feelings hurt and resorts to the "who was talking to you" line. Go cry in another forum.

      Annnd, the immaturity is back. Don't be a hypocrite

      Kakashisologod wrote: Kisame is stronger than say not full power B but V2 cloak B who is stronger than 1 eyed kakashi.But that dosent mean kisame>1 eyed kakashi.

      You're defeating your own argument

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    • samehada fusion kisame water bubble> full gyuki killer bee> samehada fusion kisame> v2 killer> samehada sword kisame> kakashi 1 ms> killer bee gyuki chakra cloak> sharingan kakashi... this good enough?

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    • @UltimaDude now you explain.

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    • Kakashisologod wrote:

      Uzumaki1naruto wrote: but it's not the only way, one of them is by possessing tenseigan, please don't write uncannonal things

      Where does it say that?

      here => http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Truth-Seeking_Ball

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    • You are right about that one,however toneri can just absorb his chakra not SP chakra.

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    • Kakashisologod wrote: You are right about that one,however toneri can just absorb his chakra not SP chakra.

      why is that? cause only chakra he can't absorb is hamura's..

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    • Lorenzo.r.1st wrote: samehada fusion kisame water bubble> full gyuki killer bee> samehada fusion kisame> v2 killer> samehada sword kisame> kakashi 1 ms> killer bee gyuki chakra cloak> sharingan kakashi... this good enough?

      What are you exactly comparing?

      @Kakashisologod You said that ABC logic exists in Naruto, but your example contradicts your claim. In your example you said that Kisame beats V2 Bee and V2 Bee beats Kakashi, but it doesn't mean that Kisame beats Kakashi. That's not ABC logic, that's the exact opposite

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    • @UltimaDude

      I guess that depends on what Kakashi. Clearly it's not DMS Kakashi. Any other Kakashi, Kisame wipes the floor with. I mean he counters everything he can pull off. Sure Kakashi is more tactical, but it won't help him win. For the record, Kakashi can't beat V2 Bee. If Sasuke basically died against V1 Bee, MS Kakashi loses too.

      But, if still want to deny that ABC logic doesn't work at all in Naruto, then that is up to you.

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    • UltimaDude wrote:

      Lorenzo.r.1st wrote: samehada fusion kisame water bubble> full gyuki killer bee> samehada fusion kisame> v2 killer> samehada sword kisame> kakashi 1 ms> killer bee gyuki chakra cloak> sharingan kakashi... this good enough?

      What are you exactly comparing?

      @Kakashisologod You said that ABC logic exists in Naruto, but your example contradicts your claim. In your example you said that Kisame beats V2 Bee and V2 Bee beats Kakashi, but it doesn't mean that Kisame beats Kakashi. That's not ABC logic, that's the exact opposite

      .Characters in naruto(some,not all)work like elemental natures.Toneri naruto sasuke is also a good example.

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    • @Rachin123 Using ABC logic is ignoring context and circumstances. The reason why Bee had trouble against Kisame is because most of his attacks are enhanced by chakra which Kisame absorbs and fuels himself with via Samehada. Bee had to deal with this while having to protect Sabu and Ponta. Unlike Bee, Kakashi has a more effective way of disarming Samehada (Kamui) and without Samehada, Kisame won't be able to heal any injury he might receive. If Kisame can die from a pencil covered in Lightning-Release chakra, then he can die from a Raikiri to the heart. Though it would be an extremely tough battle, I'd say that Kakashi can beat a Samehada-less Kisame. I can agree that Kakashi loses to Bee, but it's not because Bee stomped Sasuke

      Sure, ABC logic exists, if you throw context and circumstance out of the window

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    • To satisfied everyone, please read this:

      Stan Lee once said: "So many people asked me, who's stronger than who?, who'll win between A and B?...and my answer is that it's up to the scenarist to decide. If I want to write a story where Spider-man and Iron-man fought and i want spidey to win, than i'll write the story in order to make spidey the victor. That why asking me who'll win in a fight make no sense in absolute."

      To put it in simple words, you all think as fans (and that's good, i'm not saying the opposite) but you also have to think like scenarists.

      If Toriyama wants to write Goku vs Freezer and he wants goku to win, than he'll write the fight in order to make Goku the victor.

      If Tite Kubo wants to write Ichigo vs Grimmjow and he wants Ichigo to win, than he'll write the fight in order to make Ichigo the victor.

      If Kishimoto wants to write Naruto vs Momoshiki and he wants Naruto to win, than he'll write the fight in order to make Naruto the victor.

      Comparing mights and prowness are a thing, but don't forget that even Konohamaru won against one of the pain, although he was technically weaker than him; in DBS Ressurection of F, Sorbet manage to badly wound Goku because he caught him off guard, although Goku is stronger than him.

      So yes, between Full potential Naruto and Momokishin, one is stronger than the other....but don't forget that the author'll decide the victor to best serve his vision of the story.

      Now, my personnal opinion about the final fight: Kishimoto had wants to make Boruto the one who vanquish Momo but he also show us that Naruto and Sasuke are perfectly capable of beating him.

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    • I think they are making boruto be something that he isn't and will never be...imo. they made boruto overpower kimomoshiki... when in the fuck will that ever happen?! im talking bout the rasengan clash. boruto was supposedly stronger than a guy who, with a swing of his arm, can/ might be able to cut a shinjuu in half when at full power..... and boruto overpowered him... see my point?

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    • @UltimaDude

      The way you are making it out to be, ABC logic don't exist period.

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    • Rachin123 wrote: The way you are making it out to be, ABC logic don't exist period.

      I have no reason to believe that it does

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    • Already gave 2 examples.

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    • Kakashisologod wrote: Already gave 2 examples.

      Two examples that you miserably fail to elaborate on

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    • UltimaDude wrote:

      Kakashisologod wrote: Already gave 2 examples.

      Two examples that you miserably fail to elaborate on

      Lol?

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    • Rachin123
      Rachin123 removed this reply because:
      As per request
      15:12, March 15, 2017
      This reply has been removed
    • Did you mean to copy and paste your entire response over again?

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    • AsianReaper. Actually no. I'm really sorry about that.I really didn't want to do that. can you delete the above message, I'm not able to delete it for some reason. Here is the orginal post. I really don't get why people are saying it is only because of sakura and kakashi with DMS that they won against kaguya. I mean yes they did win with their help. but that doesn't mean they would haven't done it by themselves. sure it would take much longer but it could happen. From what I know The sage of the six paths and Hamura were fighting the ten tails for way more than a day. They were already getting used to their powers. And even after they lost their six paths they showed quite a bit potentiel. Like let's look at their adult versions and judge how powerful they are by it. 1.Sasuke this time cannot be easily trapped in a dimension. 2.Naruto can make a powerful rasenshuriken without sage mode. 3.Sasuke could destroy a very large meteorite with his chidori with ease. 4. Naruto using Kurama clones,having his kurama ashura avater. And sasuke and naruto could merge their own avaters to make it stronger. There are so many possibilities like one that momoshinki and kinshinki could have been stronger or that kaguya might have been weaker and had to train herself to today become the seems to be stronger than kinshinki absorbed momoshinki Kaguya. Or, It seems more than likely that kaguya have met the individuals, maybe they destroyed her whole clan, absorbed everyone of them other than kaguya who ran to another dimension itself and first sought for peace. Or finally it could be that they know about a certain weakness of kaguya's power. We have already seen from the series That people with knowledge can be as deadly as people with insane power. Anyways about the ABC logic I think it doesn't exist in narutoverse since Himawari knock down naruto with just one hit. While we all know that was a lucky hit and naruto wasn't at all prepared for that. And we know that, that Himawari can't beat anyone Naruto ever faced. And about "the MS Sasuke was beaten by B so MS Kakashi can't beat B" Actually MS sasuke was still recovering from his wounds and it was also a capture misson, so he couldn't kill B. And we saw how MS Sasuke just needed to cast ameterasu at Gyuki B and the only way he could have escaped was by a tanticle clone thing. And by that MS kakashi can just kamui B or even a good part of B. So I think ABC logic doesn't exist in Narutoverse. maybe a little but not that much.

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    • @Blaze

      It has been removed.

      But, enough about the ABC logic please. I believe it exists in Narutoverse and I have my reasons, but it seems that this is becoming more of the topic than the actual topic itself.

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    • Rachin123. Thanks man. Okay I won't talk about ABC logics anymore lol. well about the fight. If Naruto has intel (remember it was Boruto and Sasuke who figured out Momoshinki's absorbtion secret) about Kimoshinki then he wins Mid difficulty. Kimoshinki has alot of potentiel like his rinnegen and byakugan abilities. and his lava golem was able to overpower naruto's kurama mode, if it wasn't for sasuke to power him with susanoo he might as well not survive it. as well as the fact that Kimoshinki could have used his shadow binding jutsu absorbed from shikamaru to defeat him.Rachin123. Thanks man.

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    • I'm really sorry about that too..

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    • Okay, Can you guys edit or remove that post? I know I did this the second time and after ten minutes from the same previous mistake. But I won't do it again.

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    • BlazeRelease wrote: Okay, Can you guys edit or remove that post? I know I did this the second time and after ten minutes from the same previous mistake. But I won't do it again.

      They might adress you again for double-posting.

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    • BlazeRelease, please do not double/triple post. If your comment is the latest one, remember to click the edit button on it and add to it rather than make consecutive comments within short periods of time without waiting for others to respond.

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    • Lorenzo.r.1st wrote: imo ,the only reason she was afraid of momo and such, was because she sucked at taijutsu.

      Kaguya did not suck at taijutsu, she was easily blocking and dispatching of multiple six paths sage mode naruto clones in hand to hand combat, ch 684 pg 10, 686 pg 4-6. Its clearer in the anime.

      Lorenzo.r.1st wrote: they made boruto overpower kimomoshiki... when in the fuck will that ever happen?! im talking bout the rasengan clash. boruto was supposedly stronger than a guy who, with a swing of his arm, can/ might be able to cut a shinjuu in half when at full power..... and boruto overpowered him... see my point?

      Boruto used an attack that was comprised of 99.999999999% of naruto's own power and was only able to land it because he had some major assistance from sasuke.

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    • This is not about Kaguya

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    • True,sasuke made a distraction and thus boruto defeated momoshiki.

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    • but who pushed naruto's reasengan against momoshiki's? the rasengan is not a rocket. it needs someone to thrust it. and my comment is: how did momo have less thrusting force than bortuo? and yes she suck at taijutsu. what she was doing was literally using giant, explosive gloves randomly, and stabbing naruto's all over the place. that is certainly not taijutsu.

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    • She used gentle fist vs naruto.Also momoshiki was already really weakend(got his eye stabbed) and not focused.

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    • how was he not focused? and remember: its not his actual eye. his palm got stabbed. when u have adrenaline in ur body, u don't feel pain either, nor fear, and u become really focused in what u are doing. basically u get into the zone (u know what that is, right?)

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    • Yeah but sasuke already stabbed him with kunai and made distraction.

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    • Lorenzo.r.1st wrote:

      but who pushed naruto's reasengan against momoshiki's? the rasengan is not a rocket. it needs someone to thrust it. and my comment is: how did momo have less thrusting force than bortuo?

      The thrusting force is negligible since naruto's rasengan is so much stronger than momoshiki's attack that it made up for boruto's lack of strength.

      Lorenzo.r.1st wrote:

      and yes she suck at taijutsu. what she was doing was literally using giant, explosive gloves randomly, and stabbing naruto's all over the place. that is certainly not taijutsu.
      

      No she doesn't. One does not suck at taijutsu if one can block punches from naruto while he's using boil release unrivaled strength in six paths sage mode to increase his strength and speed. She wasn't only using the vacuum palms, she was evading everything naruto's clones hit her with while dishing out her own attack, call it kenjutsu or whatever but it was definitely hand to hand combat. ch 684 pg 10, 686 pg <---- Read these pages again, on mangapanda to be exact.

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    • reflexes don't mean taijutsu. look, I hate to brag, and I despise who do so, but I fight. a lot. its not the same thing. and by the way, she didn't even block his punches when he was using boil release. she got hit head on. she had a byakugan. knowing where the punches are coming from kinda like, obviously, helps. kenjutsu is not hand to hand combat in the first place. its like, the opposite. hand to hand is punches and kicks. has she even punched anyone, at all, in the whole fight? bare handed I mean. and she teleported outta the way so many times, it cant even be called dodging anymore. im not saying agree with me, but at least try and believe me, for this s something that I know of, for sure.

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    • The distraction Sasuke posed for Momoshiki was essential in his defeat, other wise that rasengan would not have been enough, but if Naruto was at full power, Sasuke and the Kage would not even need to be part of the fight.

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    • Mobzzzzz5 wrote: The distraction Sasuke posed for Momoshiki was essential in his defeat, other wise that rasengan would not have been enough, but if Naruto was at full power, Sasuke and the Kage would not even need to be part of the fight.

      you are grasping straws now my dear friend. The rasengan was more than sufficient to kill momoshiki at that time. the only problem was the rinnegan which Boruto and sasuke disabled. I would venture to say that perhaps even smaller rasengan would have been necessary to defeat him given he used his one to counter naruto's and still wasn't able to overpower it despite the size advantage.

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    • @Namikaze fair enough but the only reason they did kill him was the stabbing of the rinnegan, if naruto were to go up against him he would win because he overpowers Momo, not because of destroying his hax

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    • fair enough.

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    • Lorenzo.r.1st wrote:

      and by the way, she didn't even block his punches when he was using boil release. she got hit head on.

      Yes she did, its easy to miss but in ch 684 pg 10 on the last panel on mangapanda. Kaguya uses her vacuum palm and naruto punches through it, then on the next page, she blocks the punch he used to break through the vacuum palm. This was right after naruto's first use of boil release so the jutsu was still active. And the only way naruto could punch through a vacuum palm is if he's using boil release because he tried overpowering the vacuum palm in the beginning of the fight with regular punches but was blown back.

      Lorenzo.r.1st wrote:

      she had a byakugan. knowing where the punches are coming from kinda like, obviously, helps.

      Yes thats her power.

      Lorenzo.r.1st wrote:

      kenjutsu is not hand to hand combat in the first place. its like, the opposite. hand to hand is punches and kicks. has she even punched anyone, at all, in the whole fight? bare handed I mean. and she teleported outta the way so many times, it cant even be called dodging anymore. im not saying agree with me, but at least try and believe me, for this s something that I know of, for sure.
      

      Kenjutsu in naruto is similar to taijutsu because most ninja that use kenjutsu mix in a significant amount of hand to hand combat, e.g: sasuke, bee, kakashi, itachi etc. I get what you're saying but if this doesn't tell you she's skilled enough in taijutsu/kenjutsu to fend off momoshiki then I don't know what will. http://imgur.com/OZQpOET

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    • in kenjutsu, yes, of course. in taijutsu? not really. but don't get me wrong, cuz imo, momo and her both suck at taijutsu. they were "keeping up" with Naruto and sasuke, but not technically winning, nor equaling them, in said are of expertise. see what I mean?

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    • First of all this is not about Kaguya second of all kenjutsu is just the use of swords in physical combat.

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    • yes, ive already said that. thanks.

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    • Kaguya blocked narutos attacks and was ovherleming him,how is she sucking at tajjutsu again?Edit:Naruto mid-high diff.

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    • cuz she didn't even use taijutsu once. that's how. blocking someone is a shit based assumption. if someone throws a baseball at u really fast, but u still catch it by instinct, or just cuz ur eyes saw it coming for some reason, doesn't mean u know how to play baseball. at all.

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    • Dude dont compare those two things,she fought on par with boosted naruto.

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    • Full Power Naruto low-mid dif

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    • look, im right. if u think u are right as well, keep it for urself, cuz im very bias about some shit. Naruto wins. period.

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    • LMAO ^

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    • Naruto would win

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    • QuakingStar wrote: LMAO ^

      Well naruto is the winner here,though his argument is one big lmao.

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    • Rachin123
      Rachin123 removed this reply because:
      Inappropriate
      16:13, March 19, 2017
      This reply has been removed
    • at least u agree with me, kakashi, even though ALL ur argumetns are lmao's.

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    • I cant believe people say Naruto would win this. If Normal Naruto went head first into this with all his chakra techniques he normally uses against his opponents, he will lose because Momoshiki would absorb them and use them against him. You saw what happened to Naruto at the beginning of the movie. Naruto is powerful, but against Momoshiki by himself, he wouldn't last as long as you'd think based off the natural way he fights. Hell, he was about to use clones in the fight, but stopped because Sasuke told him not to use them. If Momoshiki got a hold of just one of Naruto's clones and absorbed it, Naruto would certainly be doomed, no doubt about it. Then things will go downhill quite fast because Momoshiki would spam clones and they would drain Naruto dry.

      I'm not saying it will be impossible for Naruto, but he will have very high difficulty by himself.

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    • Dosent naruto have knowledge here?

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    • Yes he does

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    • Then why does @Princess says that naruto will use ninjutsu o_O

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    • She is not the one who created the thread, I am

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    • The fact that Naruto has prior knowledge of Momoshiki, already puts him at an disadvantage. If Naruto at full power could defeat Momoshiki anyway, why would you give him knowledge on him, making his win easier.

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    • this knowledge business, naruto only knows about the rinnegan right? or you are including that 10-100x stuff?

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    • I don't think he can multiply the jutsu's power by an specific amount (aka x10-x100), but more like he can make more powerful by adding his chakra to it.

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    • I get that stuff. But what is the info rinnegan or this multiplier.

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    • if ur wondering if Naruto knows momo's abilities, then yes, he does.

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    • He just knows that the rinnegan can absorb justu, nothing more

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    • than even if he enter the fight without knowing the rinnegan don't you think he would obsereve the one on his forehead especially in kimomoshiki form?

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    • That still doesn't change the fact that you are trying to make the fight one sided.

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    • I am not making fight one sided I am just pointing out the obvious that naruto would know about rinnegan the moment he sees kimomoshiki. The fight's conclusion is still open in the air.

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    • Nobody is talking to you @Namikaze. I was referring to the OP.

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    • okay

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    • That is false no matter in who's favor

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    • The truth is, the reason you gave Naruto prior knowledge is because he would lose miserably and to help even the plain field, you gave it to him. Otherwise why do so if he could already win.

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    • Rachin123 wrote: The truth is, the reason you gave Naruto prior knowledge is because he would lose miserably and to help even the plain field, you gave it to him. Otherwise why do so if he could already win.

      would you mind telling all of us how the field is uneven? and without prior knowledge of rinnegan how would naruto lose?

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    • @Namikaze

      Again I was talking to the OP, but since you wanna butt in, the reason why the field would be uneven is because Naruto uses ninjutsu a lot, as even Sasuke had to warn not to do so, as Momoshiki's can absorb and replica his ninjutsu attacks, giving Momoshiki the advantage. And since they both have around the same level in speed and combat, Naruto would most likely lose. I mean it's common sense. It's like someone making a versus thread and saying speed equalized. But, why do so when that person would stand around the same chance if it wasn't.

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    • Rachin123 wrote: The fact that Naruto has prior knowledge of Momoshiki, already puts him at an disadvantage. If Naruto at full power could defeat Momoshiki anyway, why would you give him knowledge on him, making his win easier.

      Fighting momoshiki without knowledge is worse than commiting suicide.

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    • with knowledge of one rinnegan it is balanced

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    • Exactly my point. Without knowledge Naruto loses. With knowledge, Naruto stands a better chance of winning.

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    • Rachin123 wrote: Exactly my point. Without knowledge Naruto loses. With knowledge, Naruto stands a good chance of winning.

      Well without knowledge naruto enters Kurama avatar mode,gathers NE throws SP UBBRS at momoshiki witch gets absorbed and returned 10-100x witch kills naruto.

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    • Even if Naruto has no prior knowledge, the first Ninjutsu that he would use would be either rasengan or Shadow Clones.Most likely shadow clones. After these would be absorbed, he would undertsand the he isn't supposed to use Ninjutsu. As for dealing with the shadow clones, well, Momoshiki isn't as experienced with them as Naruto is. I don't think it would be much of a problem for Naruto to deal with them, especially since he's crazy powerful and knows arguably better than anyone how shadow clones work. It depends on the scenario, but he would still have a chance of winning, even if he made the mistake to use ninjutsu. The same way Momoshiki would still have a chance of winning even if Naruto has prior knowledge.

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    • Kakashisologod wrote: Well without knowledge naruto enters Kurama avatar mode,gathers NE throws SP UBBRS at momoshiki witch gets absorbed and returned 10-100x witch kills naruto.

      What nonsense are you spouting? Naruto didn't even enter the BM state when he fought an army of puppets in the Last. He held every single one of them with taijutsu. And he defeated every single of those puppets in base. If he starts entering in that state for every ninja than it would be too much of overkill.

      Rachin123 wrote: @Namikaze Again I was talking to the OP, but since you wanna butt in, the reason why the field would be uneven is because Naruto uses ninjutsu a lot, as even Sasuke had to warn not to do so, as Momoshiki's can absorb and replica his ninjutsu attacks, giving Momoshiki the advantage. And since they both have around the same level in speed and combat, Naruto would most likely lose. I mean it's common sense. It's like someone making a versus thread and saying speed equalized. But, why do so when that person would stand around the same chance if it wasn't.

      Unless I missed something this is the hybrid Naruto is fighting right. So unless you gouge out Naruto's eyes Won't he see the rinnegan?
      Sasuke warned naruto against momoshiki who had rinnegan in his hands. Naruto won't use ninjutsu the moment he sees that forehead. so Unless you are going to make naruto blind lack of intel isn't going to matter.
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    • It does depend on the scenario but 7/10 times Naruto wins

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    • which scenario you are talking about?

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    • @Namikaze

      Oh really. Despite Naruto knowing Kaguya had the Rinnegan, to his knowledge at the time, he still used ninjutsu. Even in the 1st Shippuden movie, he used ninjutsu against Hiruko even when he knew he could absorb it. So much for that intelligence.

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    • But now he is definitely more mature than when he was a kid/ teen

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    • Rachin123 wrote: @Namikaze

      Oh really. Despite Naruto knowing Kaguya had the Rinnegan, to his knowledge at the time, he still used ninjutsu. Even in the 1st Shippuden movie, he used ninjutsu against Hiruko even when he knew he could absorb it. So much for that intelligence.

      Kaguya doesn't has rinnegan.
      Yet rasenshuriken worked against him plus this isn't even cannon
      Lastly even if you say that naruto still has mind of 17 years old their is always kurama
      And even if what you say was true than why did he listen to sasuke instead of charging in, That's because he has brains and he can easily pick stuff like that better than many other ninjas.
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    • @Namikaze

      Kaguya didn't have the Rinnegan, but a stronger form of it. And he still used ninjutsu. Did he aim at her forehead? No he did not. Oh and Sasuke had the Rinnegan and Naruto still used ninjutsu. Clearly we know he doesn't have the same mindset as his 17 year old self, but that just mean he matured. It doesn't mean he got so much smarter. I mean Naruto listened to Katsuyu when she said ninjutsu won't work on the Preta Path. And that was 16 year old Naruto and he didn't go charging in, ignoring her.

      And what about Kurama?

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    • Rachin123 wrote: @Namikaze

      Kaguya didn't have the Rinnegan, but a stronger form of it.
      Their was no intel on any of its ability infact neither didn't know that she could absorb chakra.

      Rachin123 wrote: And he still used ninjutsu. Did he aim at her forehead? No he did not.

      How would that change the outcome? And what do you mean aim at forehead? she would absorb that attack too.

      Rachin123 wrote:

      Oh and Sasuke had the Rinnegan and Naruto still used ninjutsu. Clearly we know he doesn't have the same mindset as his 17 year old self, but that just mean he matured.
      yes naruto used ninjutsu their but only to counter Sasuke's jutsu And not to feed chakra to him purposely. He even used nintaijutsu against momoshiki despite him having rinnegan in the movie.

      Rachin123 wrote: It doesn't mean he got so much smarter. I mean Naruto listened to Katsuyu when she said ninjutsu won't work on the Preta Path. And that was 16 year old Naruto and he didn't go charging in, ignoring her.

      KAtsuyu told him after he had fired the jutsu plus on top of that he did destroy the pretha path twice.

      Rachin123 wrote: And what about Kurama?

      the one thing which would remind him if he really rushes in to make mistake.
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    • @Namikaze

      I love how you are trying to do everything in your power to save your beloved Naruto from his fate. Kurama was no help in telling him not to face Sasuke in close combat as he can absorb his chakra. I also don't know how Naruto destroying the Preta Path has anything to do with anything. Even after knowing she absorbs ninjutsu, Naruto still used it. We've also had instances when people know about the Sharingan and still look the user in the eyes. I know you want Naruto to be smart enough to know not to use ninjutsu against Kimoshiki, but Naruto is Naruto and he will use ninjutsu.

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    • Rachin123 wrote: @Namikaze I love how you are trying to do everything in your power to save your beloved Naruto from his fate. Kurama was no help in telling him not to face Sasuke in close combat as he can absorb his chakra. I also don't know how Naruto destroying the Preta Path has anything to do with anything. Even after knowing she absorbs ninjutsu, Naruto still used it. We've also had instances when people know about the Sharingan and still look the user in the eyes. I know you want Naruto to be smart enough to know not to use ninjutsu against Kimoshiki, but Naruto is Naruto and he will use ninjutsu.

      kurama never had to say anything during that fight. Naruto didn't do anything wrong in it.But he provided several useful insight like conjecturing that Sasuke can't use ninjutsu as well as pretha path simultaneously.
      I still don't get why you brought the kaguya argument again, it could be naruto knew he could destabilize her with ninjutsu via resonance.
      I don't know why you are suggesting naruto would use ninjutsu without even knowing the opponents ability. Going by Last he doesn't uses ninjutsu mostly even when facing large number of foes.(he fought complete puppet army with taijutsu for very long time while simultaneously chasing toneri.
      Plus I am kind of amused you are relying on naruto being too stupid(i.e. not seeing rinnegan and realizing full extent of his abilities) and losing the battle rather than momoshiki winning it by himself.
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    • Guys it is literally in the post that Naruto has prior knowledge, considering that, who do you think would win

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    • The lies you tell. He surely did use the Rasenshuriken, Planetary Rasengan and Multiple Shadow Clone Jutsu. So what he fought puppets using only taijutsu. So did Sakura and Hinata. They are just puppets. Naruto is not known for his intelligence, rather he is a kage or not. I brought up Kaguya again because you wanted to use the excuse that he didn't know, but when he did, he still used ninjutsu against her. And last time I checked, Naruto wouldn't be winning the battle by himself anyway if you want go there. It's partially thanks to Kurama, just as it'd be partially thanks to Kinshiki for Momoshiki. Either way Naruto loses. With prior knowledge, he may not, but I'm still putting my money on Kimoshiki for the fact that he needed Sasuke's help in that taijutsu brawl. You can try to use the excuse that his chakra was drained, but to what extent. Clearly it didn't effect his physical prowess.

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    • lol all the jutsu used, and absorbed, on kaguya were done by sasuke.

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    • The he never used planetary rasengan against the puppets, he is known to be very perseptive, he was the first one to notice that sage mode was the only thing that worked on obito.

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    • Mobzzzzz5 wrote: The he never used planetary rasengan against the puppets

      ^Who said he used the Planetary Rasengan on the puppets. I was countering the user's claim of Naruto not using ninjutsu in The Last.

      Mobzzzzz5 wrote: he is known to be very perseptive, he was the first one to notice that sage mode was the only thing that worked on obito.

      Considering he used senjutsu chakra, that's not that impressive.

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    • @rachin123
      if you feel I am telling lies that's upto you. But before you form conclusion any further I would like to clarify something for you. I am not talking about naruto winning the fight. I am talking about the intel. Intel won't change the outcome. If Naruto knowing abt momoshiki could win the fight. Than Naruto not knowing abt momoshiki can also win, The intel won't really matter much That's what I am trying to reiterate. It has nothing to do with me wanting Naruto to win.
      Plus you and I both know that Naruto could easily win just by using continuous Frog kata. He would tap dance momoshiki/ Rinnegan users to death If he wants to from start and momoshiki can't do anything about it.

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    • Namikazenaruto9 wrote:

      @rachin123

      Plus you and I both know that Naruto could easily win just by using continuous Frog kata. He would tap dance momoshiki/ Rinnegan users to death If he wants to from start and momoshiki can't do anything about it.

      Clearly it wouldn't have changed much or else he would have used it. For all we know Momoshiki could have absorbed the senjutsu attack because it's still using chakra.

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    • Rachin123 wrote: Clearly it wouldn't have changed much or else he would have used it. For all we know Momoshiki could have absorbed the senjutsu attack because it's still using chakra.

      it doesn't use chakra. Only nature energy.

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    • Still doesn't change the fact that he didn't use it.

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    • so now that this is perfect chance for him to use it, he wont? that's makes soo much sense.

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    • There was a chance for him to use other times and didn't. Are we to assume he would now, considering in the canon fight he didn't even do it.

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    • Even if naruto doesn't have intel, the first jutsu he will use will be the shadow clone like he showed in the movie, it will get absorbed so momoshiki now has the shadow clone jutsu. Naruto will no longer use ninjutsu after seeing his shadow clone get absorbed. Now, naruto still has more chakra than momoshiki because of kurama, so even if momoshiki can use clones, naruto can make more than he can. Momoshiki was slightly stronger than a weakened naruto in taijutsu as shown in the movie, a fresh naruto would probably be even or a bit above momoshiki in taijutsu.

      Naruto has access to natural energy to replenish himself while momoshiki relies on his pills. Since naruto won't be feeding him jutsus, momoshiki will eventually run out and naruto would win.

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    • Considering that was base Naruto and we have nothing to base off of, that taijutsu battle was the best we've seen of Naruto. Naruto chakra supply has nothing to do with his physical prowess.

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    • wait, how will momo absorb his kage bushin? they are a bunch of narutos, so... that's almost impossible right?

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    • He absorb a shadow. I'm sure he can absorb a shadow clone. There was a reason Sasuke told him not to use it.

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    • he absorbed something unmovable, that was touching his body at said time. a shadow clone is another Naruto, who keeps moving, and not a rasenshuriken, that when made, is thrown into the enemy. sasuke told him not to use, as in a means to not make said probabilities come true.

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    • Lorenzo.r.1st wrote: he absorbed something unmovable, that was touching his body at said time. a shadow clone is another Naruto, who keeps moving, and not a rasenshuriken, that when made, is thrown into the enemy. sasuke told him not to use, as in a means to not make said probabilities come true.

      The shadow clones will come Kimoshiki's way. It's not like they are playing ring around the rosy. And yes, just in case Kimoshiki could absorb the shadow clones, Sasuke told Naruto not use it.

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    • Thank you Rachin123. People don't seem to understand that Naruto will inevitably use Ninjutsu as he always does. Hell, he may even use Senjutsu against Momoshiki, thinking it will work and then it will really be over for him.

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    • how will senjutsu NOT work? and just cuz its a jutsu, doesn't mean its gonna get absorbed immediately.

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    • Then Naruto would have used senjutsu. Thanks to Sasuke's warning, Naruto had to be cautious when using ninjutsu. I honestly don't know what was stopping Kimoshiki from just absorbing chakra from Naruto when he was in his mode, considering he could absorb chakra from within Naruto. Oh wait. Plot.

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    • Rachin123 wrote:

      Considering that was base Naruto and we have nothing to base off of

      What are you talking about?

      Rachin123 wrote: , that taijutsu battle was the best we've seen of Naruto. Naruto chakra supply has nothing to do with his physical prowess.

      Naruto showed greater taijutsu prowess in the last. Moreover, chakra level is directly proportional to stamina. This is from the databook:

      Chakra is created when two other forms of energy, known collectively as one's "stamina", are moulded together. Physical energy (身体エネルギー, shintai enerugī) is collected from each and every one of the body's cells and can be increased through training, stimulants, and exercise. Spiritual energy (精神エネルギー, seishin enerugī, English TV: Mental Energy) is derived from the mind's consciousness and can be increased through studying, meditation, and experience.

      If one of the components that makes up chakra is physical energy, then the less chakra you have the lower your physical energy. This was proven in sasuke's fight with yoroi in the chuunin exams. When yoroi absorbed sasuke's chakra, sasuke said his strength was leaving his body. This is exactly the same case with naruto and momoshiki. Naruto was even shown weakened by the chakra absorption right before sasuke rescued him.

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    • Lorenzo.r.1st wrote: how will senjutsu NOT work? and just cuz its a jutsu, doesn't mean its gonna get absorbed immediately.

      Jirayas UBBR was out of Senjutsu but it still got absorbed.

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    • @Lorenzo

      What I meant was it wouldn't have improved his taijutsu. His taijutsu is set. Its the speed and strength that would be affected. But, we have no way of measuring how much chakra was absorbed. Considering he was able to fight rather impressively, clearly he still contained a good 2/3 f his chakra. But, what makes no sense is how he couldn't free himself, making it seem like he was so weakened, but turns around and fights perfectly fine. The only thing that Naruto at full power would be able to do is fight more evenly with Kimoshiki, as Naruto went straight to using his biju mode, even with the aid of Sasuke.

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    • Ok I see what you mean but I doubt he had 2/3 of his chakra considering he couldn't maintain six paths sage mode after they killed the golem, he had to result to using his version 1 cloak to block momoshiki's attack right afterwards.

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    • My point is, he was hardly weakened to the point that he got stomped in his fight against Kimoshiki, although he had help from Sasuke. If Naruto was so much faster and stronger than both Kinshiki and Momoshiki combined, why couldn't he just wreck them with the aid of Sasuke the first time? And don't feed me that excuse about not trying to wreck the village because they didn't have to shoot big blasts or anything, just defeat them with speed and taijutsu. It's never the kage's objective to get the village damaged in a fight, but still. It still stands that 1 direct hit by 1 gigantic TBB knocked Naruto out, so two would most likely kill him. If he could stop he would have smacked it into the sky. Instead he was hardly able to hold it back and had to contain it.

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    • Everybody loves to overrate Naruto and Sasuke, Rachin. It's amusing.

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    • everybody loves to underrate Naruto and sasuke, world. its amusing.

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    • I've never heard anyone ever underrate Naruto and Sasuke, like ever. But, people very much tend to overrate them. I can show you plenty of instances of that.

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    • Lorenzo just has some kind of childish pettiness about anything I post that he disagrees with, it's sad.

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    • Rachin123 wrote: My point is, he was hardly weakened to the point that he got stomped in his fight against Kimoshiki, although he had help from Sasuke. If Naruto was so much faster and stronger than both Kinshiki and Momoshiki combined, why couldn't he just wreck them with the aid of Sasuke the first time? And don't feed me that excuse about not trying to wreck the village because they didn't have to shoot big blasts or anything, just defeat them with speed and taijutsu.

      Because the opportunity never presented itself, before they could do anything momoshiki already charged the TBB. Moreover, that was how the writers wanted things to play out, it had nothing to do with naruto and sasuke's inability to handle those guys.

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    • uhu, oh wait, aren't u doing the same thing? wow, now THAT is sad. the hypocrisy huh? ps, @rachin, don't worry bout it. I was just annoying quakignstar, I've never seen anyone do it either lol

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    • @Lorenzo VonMT

      Oh yes it did. If Naruto was as powerful as he was, he could have smacked the TBB into the air or could have tanked it and never been knocked out, but at last he didn't and he was. A question I'd like to point out is why didn't Sasuke absorb the TBB. He does have the Preta Path's ability. I would bet he'd win over Naruto any day.

      @Lorenzo 1st and @QuakingStar

      Purposely trying to get a rise out of someone is not the way to go. I'll advise you guys to be more civil before things escalate.

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    • and sasuke has his own susanoo as well. actually, couldn't sasuke put them both in a genjutsu? and im pretty sure that Naruto is strong enough to smack that tbb into the air, since nothing was holding it in place, out of momo, who was waay weaker than kurama, physically.

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    • Lorenzo.r.1st wrote: actually, couldn't sasuke put them both in a genjutsu?

      Your guess is as good as mine.

      Lorenzo.r.1st wrote: and im pretty sure that Naruto is strong enough to smack that tbb into the air

      Clearly not as he was struggling to hold it back before having to contain it with his biju cloak. And yet was knocked out by it. So much for that moon level durability.

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    • So he gets to "annoy" me because it's fun to him, and he doesn't even get a warning?? that's interesting.. back on topic though. Momoshiki wins.

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    • @QuakingStar

      No sorry I meant to add something. Saying for you not to retaliate by trying to annoy him back. And he was warned.

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    • u seem to misunderstand. it was heavy of course. but was there anyone pushing it down, though? nope. if he gave it some distance, he could probably punch it up in the sky, or something like that. but if it was so impossible to hold it back, then how come he contained the explosion? by logic (not even science. just by logic), he shouldn't even by alive, if the tbb was heavy enough to almost crush, and the weight was just energy amassed (u have to remember this. tbb are pure energy), then the explosion would probably be 100x an atomic bomb. at that range, nothing could, and I mean NOTHING, could contain 100 atomic bombs in place, and again, NOTHING could contain said explosion caused by 100 atomic bombs... see my point?

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    • Rachin123 wrote: Oh yes it did. If Naruto was as powerful as he was, he could have smacked the TBB into the air or could have tanked it and never been knocked out, but at last he didn't and he was. A question I'd like to point out is why didn't Sasuke absorb the TBB. He does have the Preta Path's ability. I would bet he'd win over Naruto any day.

      Sasuke himself said in the Manga that Naruto could blast away the TBB away if he wanted, but that would mean that he would destroy everything around him. And let's not forget that Naruto tanked an overcharged TBB, serveral times more powerful than a normal one, as Momoshiki himself said.I mean it was way bigger than the Kurama avatar.And let's take in consideration that Naruto tanked it in such manner, that nobody got severely injured, not even Sasuke and the kids who were standing right next to him.I think that's a very impressive feat, even for someone like Naruto. You are kind of down playing him a lot...

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    • @Lorenzo 1st

      Why are you talking about? I'm not saying it was impossible for Naruto to hold it back, but that he struggled with doing it. Him being able to contain the TBB has more to do with his defensive properties then his strength. Also, what are you talking about. Where do you even get the assumption that that attack is equal to 100 atomic bombs? Also, this is fiction, while in normal life nothing can contain the explosion of 100 atomic bombs, fiction throws that logic out the window. Do you see my point?

      @Vlad

      That is not what Sasuke said. He said that they could not use their powers without dragging everyone else in. Naruto "tanked" and got knocked out by the attack. Another one would kill him. You also have to remember that Sasuke also shielded himself and the kids too. Nobody is downplaying him. You might be overrating him though.

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    • Rachin123 wrote: @Lorenzo 1st

      Why are you talking about? I'm not saying it was impossible for Naruto to hold it back, but that he struggled with doing it. Him being able to contain the TBB has more to do with his defensive properties then his strength. Also, what are you talking about. Where do you even get the assumption that that attack is equal to 100 atomic bombs? Also, this is fiction, while in normal life nothing can contain the explosion of 100 atomic bombs, fiction throws that logic out the window. Do you see my point?

      @Vlad

      That is not what Sasuke said. He said that they could not use their powers without dragging everyone else in. Naruto "tanked" and got knocked out by the attack. Another one would kill him. You also have to remember that Sasuke also shielded himself and the kids too. Nobody is downplaying him. You might be overrating him though.

      When Naruto manifested Kurama for the first time at the arena,he was getting ready to blast the TBB away with his own TBB. Then he stops, and when Boruto asks why he isn't blasting it away, Sasuke replies that Naruto could blast it away if he felt like it, but that would mean he would destroy the surroundings. Go re-read the manga if you don't belive me.Also, Sasuke was bearly using any susanoo protection, he didn't even display skeleton-level...i don't think i am overrating him, i just state the facts. You however are kind of down-playing him...

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    • Nobody is talking about the manga. We are talking about the movie. There are differences between the movie and manga adaptation. Take what you will, but I'm sticking to the first and official source.

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    • Rachin123 wrote: Nobody is talking the manga. We are talking about the movie.

      The manga is more canon in this situation, even if the movie came out first. Why would you argue with that? C'mon man...really?

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    • You do realize that fight in the manga is an adaptation of the movie? So how the heck is it more canon the movie? The movie was even officially stated to said to be chapter 699.5. So you c'mon on man.

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    • Rachin123 wrote: You do realize that fight in the manga is an adaptation of the movie? So how the heck is it more canon the movie? The movie was even officially stated to said to be chapter 699.5. So you c'mon on man.

      So, the manga, that sets the entire Boruto franchise, and that sets the power level of entire adult-hood Naruto characters is less canonically that the Movie because it came first? You know that the future actions/battle of the Naruto chracters with link with the manga, not with the movie, right? And also, there are a lot of parts in the manga that made a whole lot sense than in the movie, but of course you will overlook these things... Honestly, you are losing an argument and you bring up the most ridiculous things.I think i proved you wrong, and you just won't accept it. And yes, since you are a Naruto hater,as i've seen in previous topics, is no surprise that you are down playing him. Whatever, belive what you want.If you are that arrogant that you won't even acknowledge facts, i have no business here. I'm out.

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    • Rachin123 wrote: @Lorenzo VonMT

      Oh yes it did. If Naruto was as powerful as he was, he could have smacked the TBB into the air or could have tanked it and never been knocked out, but at last he didn't and he was. A question I'd like to point out is why didn't Sasuke absorb the TBB. He does have the Preta Path's ability. I would bet he'd win over Naruto any day.

      Remember when naruto deflected 4 bijuu bombs the first time he linked with kurama with pure strength and speed alone? Now that he has six paths sage mode with full kurama, why do you think he can't repeat the same feat to a TBB thats twice the strength of the 8 tails' version. The main reason why that didn't happen was because of plot, the writers did not intend for the battle to end in konoha, there was still more to the story thats why they needed a plot device to extend the movie.

      Even if you don't agree to that, I don't see what naruto's inability to tank it has anything to do with this discussion, Momoshiki died from a much weaker technique. If the village was not there, naruto fires a more powerful jutsu at it, simple.

      Sasuke didn't absorb it because of either plot or the rinnegan has an absorption limit. Madara didn't absorb the lava style rasenshuriken either and kaguya didn't absorb the tailed beast rasenshuriken.

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    • UntappedRage
      UntappedRage removed this reply because:
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      00:16, March 23, 2017
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    • We've only ever seen Naruto actually get hit by such a large technique in the entire series (Indra's Arrow), and it technically didn't even actually hit him for Naruto to knocked out of his chakra cloak. This Tailed Beast Bomb was enhanced by Momoshiki, so it was definitely a lot stronger than a regular one.

      He also tanked it by placing it within his chakra cloak, so it's literally no different than him jumping on a live grenade to shield his mates from an explosion. As opposed to tanking it if it was shot at the cloak, which in turn is literally no different than him hiding behind a piece of cover.

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    • @Vlad

      Why are you so mad. Calling me a Naruto hater. Do you honestly think I care that much of a fictional character to hate them? If you do, then clearly you are mistaken. You claimed that the Boruto manga is more canon than the movie, which makes no sense. It's an adaptation of the movie which has been stated to be chapter 699.5 by the author. The only reason you want to go with the Boruto manga version is because it best suits your position on this thread. I never knocked you down for you picking to use that version of the fight. Also, who is to say even if Naruto used a TBB that he would overpower it? You say you proved me wrong. Where? How am I being arrogant exactly? You make no sense whatsoever. How about you take your certain feeling self and bother someone else cuz I don't need it from you.

      @Lorenzo VonMT

      When it's Naruto losing, it's plot, but when Naruto wins, it's not plot. Yea whatever.

      How does Naruto getting knocked out by a gigantic TBB have to do with this discussion? You aren't being serious right? If that's what it takes to knock him out, why wouldn't it be brought up? Smh

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    • Sasuke not using absorbtion ability is plot but naruto getting knocked up isnt.

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    • @Kakashi

      Are you using sarcasm? Like do you believe that Naruto getting knocked was plot. I do however do believe it was plot that didn't allow Sasuke to absorb the attack. Unless it was too much. But, he made no claim so how are we suppose to know.

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    • No, it was. Sasuke didn't use the Preta Path to absorb the technique only for Naruto to get knocked out for Boruto to have some kind of last minute epiphany.

      How was Boruto even fast enough to stab Momoshiki? The guy who could almost keep up with Naruto and Sasuke? Plot. Plot for Boruto's development. The whole movie was plot. Why couldn't they just have started Boruto off as an adult? Somebody cool? No becaus-rant rant *AUTISTIC SCREECHING*

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    • Exactly. Why didn't Kimoshiki just smack Boruto away like he did poor Sasuke, instead of catching him knowing he had a kunai in his hand.

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    • Because poor Naruto and Sasuke have lost MC privileges of winning the fights.

      i cri evrytiem

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    • Rachin123 wrote: @Lorenzo VonMT

      When it's Naruto losing, it's plot, but when Naruto wins, it's not plot. Yea whatever.

      When did I ever say naruto winning wasn't because of plot? As far as this discussion is concerned, I provided evidence to support my argument.

      Rachin123 wrote: How does Naruto getting knocked out by a gigantic TBB have to do with this discussion? You aren't being serious right? If that's what it takes to knock him out, why wouldn't it be brought up? Smh

      We were talking about naruto beating momoshiki and kinshiki with taijutsu and you suddenly bring up a TBB knocking naruto out, which doesn't really help your argument because momoshiki died from a much weaker jutsu.

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    • @Lorenzo VonMT

      You make it seem like that Parent and Child Rasengan was weak. It burst through the tree trunk like nothing, tore through the ground and sent Kimoshiki into the space before blowing up. Him dying from that doesn't much surprise me. And all that proves is Naruto is more durable than Kimoshiki.

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