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  • Rinnegan of Nagato below's to madara, right? And, the rinnegan is the evolution of the mangekyou of Madara, right? So, if he have the eyes of Madara, can he use the Susano'o?

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    • Since Nagato never used it, despite the fact it'd be pretty useful in some situations, I'd say he never managed to master it. Nothing implies he ever got to know that his Rinnegan is in fact Madara's evolved EMS, also it's likely that he never knew about Susanoo as a technique as well. He couldn't even use Limbo which is already a Rinnegan techique, yet only Madara proved to be able to use it.

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    • No he cant becuse those are not his eyes.Let me explain madara was only able to use MS powers becuse he was the one who evolved ems into a rinnegan.Nagato got the rinnegan and cant use ms powers becuse he didnt evolve ems into a rinnegan.

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    • Rinnegan is not an evolution of the Sharingan, even though this wiki states such... oh well, time to bring that up.

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    • You only need the MS to awaken Susanoo. Madara can use it without eyes and Itachi can use it while blind. So Madara himself is the only one who can use his Susanoo.

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    • U cant always get susano when awakining MS.Remember that only powerful ms users can awake it?Itachi said to sasuke something like i am suprised u awakended susano.

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    • Susanoo is manifested by the eyes, but the true origin of the technique is in the brain. (even the mythology of Susanoo -that it was formed from the nose- suggests it's not a power actually tied to the eyes).

      Since Nagato doesn't possess Madara's brain, he can't access it.

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    • Not just that but he lacks his own ems that was formed into rinnegan.

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    • Madara's eyes are the EMS formed into Rinnegan. Like Thekillman said.. he just doesn't have the source(Madara's brain) for Susanoo.

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    • just plot in my head, cuz kakashi used obito's susanoo, so..

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    • Obito was literally inside of Kakashi.. he placed his Spirit and chakra in him so therefore the brain origin chakra was inside of Kakashi too which is why he was able to awaken both Mangekyo Sharingan and use Susanoo.

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    • QuakingStar wrote: Obito was literally inside of Kakashi.. he placed his Spirit and chakra in him so therefore the brain origin chakra was inside of Kakashi too which is why he was able to awaken both Mangekyo Sharingan and use Susanoo.

      Yeah, true. if Madara placed his spirit in Nagato, maybe Nagato could use Susanoo, which Madara didn't, so, no Susanoo for Nagato.

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    • And kakashi was enchaned by SP chakra

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    • Kakashisologod wrote: And kakashi was enchaned by SP chakra

      That is actually not important.

      What Obito did to Kakashi is similar to how Edo Tensei work. If a spirit possesses a body, that body gains access to the spirit's powers. Now Edo Tensei has a few other things going on since it works forcefully. Obito however, could apparently do it voluntarily (probably because of his Six Paths power).

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    • ur funny.. nagato too has six paths chakra since rinne=six paths so.. oh, and the spirit is not necessary to use susanoo, since every single ems user could do it..

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    • U dont get it, madara was able to use susano when he was blind becuse he had it in his brain.Nagato dosent have that.Every single ems user could do it becuse once they awaken susano its in their brain.

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    • Lorenzo.r.1st wrote: ur funny.. nagato too has six paths chakra since rinne=six paths so.. oh, and the spirit is not necessary to use susanoo, since every single ems user could do it..

      I have no idea what you're talking about.

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    • Thekillman wrote:

      Lorenzo.r.1st wrote: ur funny.. nagato too has six paths chakra since rinne=six paths so.. oh, and the spirit is not necessary to use susanoo, since every single ems user could do it..

      I have no idea what you're talking about.

      Me neither.

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    • Kakashisologod wrote:

      Thekillman wrote:

      Lorenzo.r.1st wrote: ur funny.. nagato too has six paths chakra since rinne=six paths so.. oh, and the spirit is not necessary to use susanoo, since every single ems user could do it..

      I have no idea what you're talking about.

      Me neither.

      Me too.

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    • first: the rinnegan can only be achieved if u have the chakra from the sage of the sp, right? and nagato has rinne so that's one problem solved. second: ems is when u steal someone else's eyes if ur ms is goin blind, but u still remain with all ur abilities, INCLUDING SUSANOO, while using another persons eyes even though u dint have theirs spirits and stuff. get now?

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    • But using somebodys eyes dosent effect your spirit.U are right about that one rinnegan wielder has sp chakra.

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    • thank u, but wat I mean is that if sasuke has itachi's and can use susanoo, or if kakashi (who is literally in the same position as nagato) has obito's ms and is not a uchiha, why cant nagato who has madara's ems/rinne use susanoo? I think its plot if u give it some thought.. maybe because itachi was the first person to use, they wanted it to be a more itachi-like-ability, and nagato who had rinne, which was the most interesting part of nagato himself and because it was very AND because they didn't want to make the most powerful villain yet right off the bet, they chose to make rinne HIS thing.. every akatsuki has that.. orochimaru is sage chakra and experimentation user aka mad scientist- sasori is the people body stealer aka doll creepo or the guy from chainsaw massacre movies.. and the list goes on.

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    • People are over thinking it. If Nagato could transition his (Madara's) Rinnegan into the EMS or MS, he could automatically meet the requirements for Susanoo. It has nothing to do with Spirit because Kakashi did this exact thing. Kakashi merely took on Obito's Chakra and gained access to both MS abilities and Susanoo simultaneously, despite never using Close Range Kamui nor Susanoo previously.

      On another note, anyone and theoretically gain the Sharingan if they obtained the special Chakra produced by Uchiha and channeled it into their eyes, even without Uchiha DNA, because it's literally special Chakra produced in the brain.

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    • Lorenzo.r.1st wrote: first: the rinnegan can only be achieved if u have the chakra from the sage of the sp, right? and nagato has rinne so that's one problem solved. second: ems is when u steal someone else's eyes if ur ms is goin blind, but u still remain with all ur abilities, INCLUDING SUSANOO, while using another persons eyes even though u dint have theirs spirits and stuff. get now?

      But that has nothing to do with what i'm talking about. The origin of sharingan powers is in the brain. Changing eyes doesn't change that, which is why powers are conserved even when eyes are switched. But Nagato doesn't have Madara's brain.

      Obito on the other hand was able to mimic an Edo Tensei and gave Kakashi access to his powers, including Susanoo.

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    • Thekillman wrote:

      Lorenzo.r.1st wrote: first: the rinnegan can only be achieved if u have the chakra from the sage of the sp, right? and nagato has rinne so that's one problem solved. second: ems is when u steal someone else's eyes if ur ms is goin blind, but u still remain with all ur abilities, INCLUDING SUSANOO, while using another persons eyes even though u dint have theirs spirits and stuff. get now?

      But that has nothing to do with what i'm talking about. The origin of sharingan powers is in the brain. Changing eyes doesn't change that, which is why powers are conserved even when eyes are switched. But Nagato doesn't have Madara's brain.

      Obito on the other hand was able to mimic an Edo Tensei and gave Kakashi access to his powers, including Susanoo.

      kinda agree. The reason Nagato couldn't use Susanoo because he doesn't know that technique and of course he didn't realize that his rinnegan is an evolution of EMS.

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    • And becuse he dosent have madaras spirit/brain.

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    • Kakashisologod wrote: And becuse he dosent have madaras spirit/brain.

      Yes, this was my actual point. Similar to how kakashi couldn't deactivate Sharingan because he didn't have an uchiha brain, Nagato can't activate Susanoo because he doesn't have an uchiha brain (and can't deactivate Rinnegan because he doesn't have Madara's brain specifically).

      Merely possessing Six Paths chakra doesn't grant you that or else Naruto, Obito and Sasuke would've awoken dual Rinnegan.

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    • Yeah possessing sp chakra grants u ability to wield rinnegan or some other dojutsu like its yours.

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    • Kakashisologod wrote: Yeah possessing sp chakra grants u ability to wield rinnegan or some other dojutsu like its yours.

      Except that's not how it works. Obito didn't use the Rinnegan as if it were his, nor did Nagato.

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    • Dude nagato was EASILY able to use all of the paths of rinnegan and i even made new trick.Dead bodies.He is defently god with rinnegan

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    • Nagato was the perfect host for it, hence he was able to use it to almost its full power, hence the label Third Sage of Six Paths. Obito did not have the body for it. So he could not handle both eyes or use almost its full power

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    • Kakashisologod wrote: Dude nagato was EASILY able to use all of the paths of rinnegan and i even made new trick.Dead bodies.He is defently god with rinnegan

      Yet Nagato acknowledged he was nothing compared to the Sage, and it's clear from both Madara, Hagoromo and Sasuke that he was nowhere near a true user.

      QuakingStar wrote: Nagato was the perfect host for it, hence he was able to use it to almost its full power, hence the label Third Sage of Six Paths. Obito did not have the body for it. So he could not handle both eyes or use almost its full power

      I disagree. If lineage matters, why would Obito be any worse at it than Nagato? After all, he's directly part of the lineage that inherited magic eyes and the rinnegan is a magic eye. In fact, i'd argue that Obito is better at using the Rinnegan than Nagato when he first got that eye.

      What's the difference then? Time. Nagato apparently didn't use any serious from of Rinnegan power until he was much older. Obito plucked in the eye and started controlling Biju from pretty much the get-go. Nagato however had 10-20 years to learn how to use the Rinnegan, and over time got considerably better. Obito didn't use it for more than a few...days? A week at best?

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    • Obito had hashiramas cells in him and didnt even use any rinnegan jutsu.Also sage of the six paths is a ttj plus true owner of the rinnegan.U cant blame nagato for not being on his lvl.Also nagato was able to wield it when he was a little kid.

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    • Except kid Nagato fainted every time he used Rinnegan power and usually didn't remember what happened.

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    • But he was still able to use them,while obito didnt.

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    • Obito could use it, and almost immediately, while Nagato has gone through an adjustment period during his entire childhood. Obito had not that much time and just a single eye, yet learned to use it quite effectivelly.

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    • Kakashisologod wrote: Obito had hashiramas cells in him and didnt even use any rinnegan jutsu.

      That means you thoroughly debunk the idea that Nagato could use Rinnegan because of his lineage. Obito had the chakra of a transmigrant and belonged to the clan of the other transmigrant. If Nagato is qualified for Rinnegan because of his lineage, Obito is doubly qualified by any metric.

      Kakashisologod wrote: Also sage of the six paths is a [..] true owner of the rinnegan.

      Yes, which is why he can use it better than Nagato: He's a true owner and Nagato is not.

      Kakashisologod wrote: But he was still able to use them,while obito didnt.

      He could, just didn't.

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    • First of all obito had fake body power and didnt even reach full ponteinal as a uciha.OK we agree about hagoromo part.Why wouldnt he use it when he is fighting alied shinobi forces?

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    • Actually, he used a lot of stuff, although mainly connected to the Outer Path. Six Paths of Pain to control 6 Edo-Jinchuriki at the same time. Gedo Chains to restrict his enemies. The Summon of the Gedo Statue itself and control over it as well. Also, Obito mentioned he could use Human Path on Yamato to read his mind (but decided to avoid this to keep Yamato alive), and finally he Rinne Tensei'ed Madara (though forced by BZ). There was no sense in using something else, especially against Shinobi Allance, when he attained greater power in his disposal (the control over Ten-Tails > the powers as its Jichuriki, including TSBs). Plus, Kakashi himself mentioned that Obito was smart enough not to waste his time on techniques everyone is already familiar with after Pain's attack on Konoha. In fact, this was the main reason why his SPoP got defeated, since Naruto knew how the jutsu works.

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    • He still had some TTJ chakra left and thus he was better in using its abilitaes.ONLY used contoriling gedo statue thing and human path,nothing more nothing less.

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    • Most of the performance I mentioned happened even before Obito became a TTJ. The only Rinnegan technique he used after losing Ten-Tails was Rinne Tensei. So his quite adept use of the Rinnegan can't be denied.

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    • Like i said he only used controling and human path.

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    • And all the other was meaningless for him to use. Everyone knew Pain's techniques and how to counter them.

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    • Umm only naruto knew so moot point(maybe kakashi and guy but they didnt directly face all of the abilitaes).

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    • Actually, almost everyone could know since Katsuyu was the main informer of Naruto after the Pain's attack and she could deliver the info to others through her multiple pieces. Also, it was enough to know only for Naruto/Kakashi/Guy because they were the opponents of Obito in personal battle, the fight against Shinobi Alliance included Ten-Tails on Obito's side and then its power as a TTJ, so there was no need in the abilities of the lower class when he had much more advanced tools to use.

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    • Soo why are u and @TheKillMan assuming he knows all paths when he didnt used them?

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    • It's just an assumptions. He didn't use other paths in the series, so he isn't their user by default, but it's almost the same case with Madara/Sasuke who even were the orinal owners of their Rinnegans, yet haven't used most of the techniques Nagato demonstrated. But I think it's the right choice, since it'd be quite boring to see the same techniques again and again.

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    • Kakashisologod wrote: Soo why are u and @TheKillMan assuming he knows all paths when he didnt used them?

      Show me the evidence he doesn't. Didn't use is not equal to can't use.

      After all, Obito managed to subdue no less than 6 biju. He struggled a bit at first with transforming them into their full power state, but adapted and succeeded. These biju showed a power roughly equal to Kurama near-full power. Remember that Nagato was struggling against that.

      Secondly, Nagato relied on the use of the Paths. Obito didn't. He had his own Mangekyou to phase through stuff, making techniques like Animal Path (solely used for mobility) and Ashura Path (defence) useless. He could use Human Path, but it's a useless combat path. Preta Path may have been useful, but then again there's the phasing thing which largely made that obsolete. King of Hell is used only to reinvigorate the Paths, which Obito didn't need since they were Edo Tensei.

      So what exactly does Obito gain from using the Six Paths? not a whole lot. With his Zetsu army he probably was up-to-date about Nagato v Naruto (both times) and probably figured out that Chibaku Tensei is useless against Naruto/Bee. The push/pull thing is useful, but if binding chakra to your feet is all it takes to deny that power, why use it?

      In stead, it seems Obito primarily used the Rinnegan to control the Edo Tensei (even though they weren't his) and the Biju for raw power.

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    • 50% of kurama EASILY defeated all those bijjus,yet nagato while seriously weakend was able to fight against it on his own.....with deva path who is weaker then nagato in therm of using that jutsu.If obito knew deva path for example he wouldev had pulled naruto to him(while he was taking out son gokus chakra binding thingy)and kill him.

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    • Kakashisologod wrote: 50% of kurama EASILY defeated all those bijjus

      You have a very strange idea of what easily means.

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    • It wasn't as easy as guess. Would be a lot more problematic if not the main weakness of the Edo-Jinchuriki (chakra receiver controlling them). And Nagato actually wasn't able to hold his own against Kurama-controlled Naruto, even Chibaku Tensei turned out to be not enough to subdue him. Also, Obito didn't want to kill Naruto back then, he wanted him alive (because of Kurama), if he had tried to pull Naruto and suck him into Kamui, he would've made himself vunerable since he has to be tangible to use teleportation. And there were other opponents aside from Naruto who could've used this chance to counterattack. Gedo Chains were much more effective to stop Naruto.

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    • Deva path defenetly fought equaly with 8 tails naruto,full powered 9 tails wouldev had completly broke CT and finish deva off.Also why not just pierce him with black receviers?He couldev had just pull him and pierce him,so why not do that?

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    • its weird that obito never used rinne powers.. he said he didn't want to waste chakra, but he could've had more chakra than nagato himself, and all the while he was an uchiha with half of his body of a senju, and I already know some of u guys alreay said this, but if think about it, obito could've awakened his own rinne after a while.. and why didn't obtito use susanoo with only one eye, if madara had neither of his eyes and still used it? that's messed up.. back to the obtio-rinne talk, the lack of chakra to use his rinne was solved the moment he became the ttj.. pretty sure that more than enough chakra..

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    • Again, he needs to be tangible for physical attacks. And physical attacks were something Obito avoided. And no, Deva Path was already overwhelmed by Kyubi-Naruto ever since he entered the 6-tails form, even reflecting Shinra Tensei back at him, and CT was the last attemp to subdue Naruto, though the 8-tails form was enough to broke free of it. Probably, more attemps of Nagato to make CT bigger could result in him using up all the chakra and dying, but they still couldn't guarantee the success.

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    • Actually u need both eyes to awaken susano,obito had only one.Madara already awakended it and had spirit of susano in his brain so he didnt need eyes.

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    • where did u even read that?

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    • Itachi said so.

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    • Kakashisologod wrote: Deva path defenetly fought equaly with 8 tails naruto,full powered 9 tails wouldev had completly broke CT and finish deva off.Also why not just pierce him with black receviers?He couldev had just pull him and pierce him,so why not do that?

      Because he had a much safer way of doing it by throwing the receivers with Kamui. But as Naruto showed, he learned to use Shadowclones to remove the black rods. So it's also not as effective.

      Obito was facing an opponent who had more experience against the Rinnegan, than he had with the rinnegan.

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    • You still havent answered my question,why not pull naruto and black receivere him in the head?(i know it wouldnt workt but why not try)And the last part dosent have to do anything with our argument,but u are right about it.Last post for tonight,so save your posts for tomorow.^^

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    • There's so many to read... But I agree that Obito is better than Nagato because he adapts to use and stabilize Rinne in short time while Nagato had years.

      Thekillman wrote:

      Kakashisologod wrote: Deva path defenetly fought equaly with 8 tails naruto,full powered 9 tails wouldev had completly broke CT and finish deva off.Also why not just pierce him with black receviers?He couldev had just pull him and pierce him,so why not do that?

      Because he had a much safer way of doing it by throwing the receivers with Kamui. But as Naruto showed, he learned to use Shadowclones to remove the black rods. So it's also not as effective.

      Obito was facing an opponent who had more experience against the Rinnegan, than he had with the rinnegan.

      Yeah, Obito is a cunning man. He knew that Naruto already seen through all rinne techniques that Pain has used, so he chose not to.

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    • Obito is not better than Nagato with Rinnegan. Nagato wasn't even taught the techs and how to use it fully until after Yahiko died, yet before he was 10 he killed a Iwa Chunin and two Konoha ninja with it although he blacked out afterwards, he also mastered all nature transformations at age 10. Madara taught Obito when he was 13 all that stuff. If Obito actually taught Nagato everything instead of withholding info on techs and etc.. just like how Madara withheld info about Limbo and Tengai Shinsei.. then Nagato would know more. If Nagato knew Limbo and Tengai Shinsei then this series would not have made it this far lol

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    • When you unlock the susanoo u have a susanoo type chakra so I'm guessing that's why Nagato couldn't use it

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    • QuakingStar wrote: Obito is not better than Nagato with Rinnegan.

      I think you missed my point. Obito is better than nagato when he received that eye. In a few days, weeks at most, Obito was controlling 6 biju. His Six Paths technique was more advanced. He did a bunch of things. Nagato's first documented use of a Path is summoning Gedo when he was already in Akatsuki (ten-ish years later?). The rest of the paths he developed afterwards (since the Six Paths technique is a response to his immobility). We don't know how he took down a few mediocre ninja, for all we know he simply genjutsu'd them and cut them down.

      Comparatively, Obito learned it a whole lot faster. He was also busy growing an army, developing the Ninjutsu to create his six paths (e.g double sealing Biju, creating the controlling chains, etc), etc. He simply may not have had time to learn to use all techniques. After all, he saw what awakening Susanoo did to Sasuke and may not have wanted to spend a day or more half-dead from the aftereffects, when his time was limited and precious. (Keep in mind, Kabuto didn't join until a day or two before the war. Until then, Obito was expecting to fight the entire thing himself, with 6 biju, his Paths and 100 000 zetsu).

      Kakashisologod wrote: You still havent answered my question,why not pull naruto and black receivere him in the head?(i know it wouldnt workt but why not try)

      There may be unknown side-effects to using this. For instance, i wonder if it prevents Obito from phasing, in which case it's simply not worth it. Alternatively, if Tsunade's counter to this technique works (which is really cheap and easy to do) then it may just be too pointless a technique to even bother to learn. Either way, Obito didn't bother, which suggests there's a good reason he didn't bother. I personally think he can't actively use Rinnegan techs and phase at the same time.

      So a TLDR for all of this:

      Obito learned the Rinnegan in a surprisingly little amount of time. Had he gotten more time to use it (decades like Nagato) he would've rivalled and probably outdone Nagato. But, just like other characters (Minato, EMS Sasuke) we never saw it because they died or transformed before they could manage the full potential.

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    • When kakashi used susanoo it clearly was not Obito's chakra. it was clearly Kakashi's thats why his susanoo had a scar across its right eye, just like kakashi.

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    • Actionmanrandell wrote: When kakashi used susanoo it clearly was not Obito's chakra. it was clearly Kakashi's thats why his susanoo had a scar across its right eye, just like kakashi.

      Left eye. Besides, Kakashi was the one manifesting it, so it makes sense it looks like him.

      EDIT: Chapter 567 also puts forth both theories: Obito either can't use the Paths because he uses all his concentration to keep the Biju in check (since he's not just controlling the 6 paths, he fights alongside them AND keeps 6 biju in check) or he won't waste chakra on these techniques since the counters are known. Or both.

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    • Thekillman wrote:

      Actionmanrandell wrote: When kakashi used susanoo it clearly was not Obito's chakra. it was clearly Kakashi's thats why his susanoo had a scar across its right eye, just like kakashi.

      Left eye. Besides, Kakashi was the one manifesting it, so it makes sense it looks like him.

      EDIT: Chapter 567 also puts forth both theories: Obito either can't use the Paths because he uses all his concentration to keep the Biju in check (since he's not just controlling the 6 paths, he fights alongside them AND keeps 6 biju in check) or he won't waste chakra on these techniques since the counters are known. Or both.

      Yeah, just like Sasuke's susanoo who had evil grin... Agreed on whatev's written above.

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    • Again, how could Nagato use those techs if he was never taught about them like Obito was?? We also don't know how long it took Obito to teach him once he did so(going by Jiraiya's words Nagato masters everything he is taught) so again if Nagato knew what Obito knew he would have done the same if not better with the techs.

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    • QuakingStar wrote: Again, how could Nagato use those techs if he was never taught about them like Obito was?

      Sasuke seemed to figure out his powers simply by using the eye. So, practice i guess? I do think Obito taught him to use the eye though.

      QuakingStar wrote: if Nagato knew what Obito knew he would have done the same if not better with the techs.

      If Nagato is qualified to use the Rinnegan because of his senju lineage, Obito is doubly qualified.

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    • Obito didnt reach full ponteintal as uciha and has fake body power.

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    • Technically, Hashi's DNA in Madara's body was also a "fake body bower", yet it proved to be crucial in awakening of this Rinnegan in the first place. And Obito had a half of his body made from this DNA. Fake or not, it plays the important role in Rinnegan awakening and control. Also, nothing implies that Nagato "reached full potential" as an Uzumaki as well (I didn't see him performing Kushina's chakra chains or possessing a hax Uzumaki regeneration like Kabuto). Both Nagato and Obito weren't Asura/Indra reincarnates, yet possessed the powers of their lineages, with Obito obtaining the lineage powers of both Indra/Asura. Madara actually stated this was the reason why Obito could control Gedo Statue without even wielding the Rinnegan.

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    • Yes, and between them ONLY Nagato could use both eyes, let alone as well as he did.. and he was able to basically spam six paths techs. Obito just had advanced knowledge on the Rinnegan and its techs. Nagato did not.

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    • Obito has greater knowledge about rinnegan then adult nagato?U have got to be kidding me.

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    • QuakingStar wrote: Yes, and between them ONLY Nagato could use both eyes, let alone as well as he did.. and he was able to basically spam six paths techs. Obito just had advanced knowledge on the Rinnegan and its techs. Nagato did not.

      Nagato had no other choice but to adapt to the both eyes, since Madara didn't ask him if he wanted them to wield. On the other hand, Obito had this choice and dedided to avoid possible risk on the eve of the FSWW just for safety reasons. It doesn't exclude the possibility of him being able to wield the both eyes at all, since Obito desired to get an immediate access to the power of the Rinnegan without any adjustment periods, and in mere days he could control several Edo-Jinchuriki along with their beasts, as well as use the Gedo Statue ifself effectivelly. It's almost the same as if kid Nagato tried to use the same techniques almost immediately after Rinnegan transplantation.

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    • Nop i dissagree.Obito wasnt able to wield 2 eyes at all.It was already a risk for him to wield rinnegan.5-6 years old kid nagato killed 2 shinbois with rinnegan powers and unlike obito he wasnt an expirenced shinobi,wasnt adult and didnt have time to train.

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    • We don't even know what Nagato has done to these shinobi to kill them. Either way, he fainted each time he used Rinnegan that way and didn't even remember what happened. Obito battled almost non-stop after clashing with Naruto, he couldn't allow something like this for himself. Also, Kamui was still a nice option which made Obito's right MS worth to spare.

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    • Ravenlot 27 wrote: We don't even know what Nagato has done to these shinobi to kill them.

      A genjutsu would've been enough, really.

      Kakashisologod wrote: Nop i dissagree. Obito wasnt able to wield 2 eyes at all.

      When obito got his half-zetsu body, he couldn't use it at all. Until he could. Like i said, the major difference between nagato and Obito is time. Nagato had much more time to learn his techs. Obito started doing pretty insane stuff from Day 1. The only other ones that subdued 6 biju at a time, are Madara and Sasuke, true rinnegan owners.

      We didn't see Nagato use any rinnegan techs until he was an adult. The burden would simply not have been the same for him.

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    • Well, I think that it was at least not a genjutsu, since a) we don't know if Nagato could use them with Rinnegan b) genjutsu can't kill the victim, while Nagato surely did this.

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    • Ravenlot 27 wrote: Well, I think that it was at least not a genjutsu, since a) we don't know if Nagato could use them with Rinnegan b) genjutsu can't kill the victim, while Nagato surely did this.

      he killed them himself, he just needed Genjutsu to easily kill them. Besides, it's likely that the Rinnegan can cast genjutsu (it's awakened from the Sharingan), just not very powerful ones (else they'd have been spammed).

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    • And assumptions we dont know what happend

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    • Kakashisologod wrote: And assumptions we dont know what happend

      So assuming he used advanced rinnegan techniques falls under the same thing: it's just an assumption.

      They were run-of-the mill shinobi. they didn't even notice civilians in the next room. It wouldn't have required that nuch to kill them.

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    • U really think nagato wouldev had kill them consciously?

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    • Run of the mill or not, he was a child who was not a shinobi nor learning to be one.. and just happened to be the perfect host according to Madara/Black Zetsu, therefor the eyes were transplanted into him. If Nagato was trained by Madara instead of Obito. He would have accomplished the eye of the moon plan much earlier. There is nothing to say he could not do the things Obito did. He simply did not know of the variations Obito used. Obito told Sakura that he could barely handle One Rinnegan eye and almost lost control with it, so he did not try and implant the second one. Nagato and Madara alone were labeled as Second and Third Six Paths.

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    • Thank u @QuakingStar.

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    • Kakashisologod wrote: Obito didnt reach full ponteintal as uciha and has fake body power.

      He's not, he's a late bloomer. Who has the ability to be intangible? Obito. Anyone else? No...

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    • Thats MS ability,but still didnt reach full ponteintal .

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    • Kakashisologod wrote: Thats MS ability,but still didnt reach full ponteintal .

      what do you mean by "reaching full potential as uchiha"? If it's not MS, then what is it? rinnegan?,,,,

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    • Kakashisologod wrote: U really think nagato wouldev had kill them consciously?

      The human flight-or-fight response is part of the primitive brain. If it triggers, intentions or consciousness don't matter: it just flicks a switch and only later do you wonder about what happened. It's a fundamental survival mechanism that your conscious brain has no control over whatsoever.

      QuakingStar wrote: Obito told Sakura that he could barely handle One Rinnegan eye and almost lost control with it, so he did not try and implant the second one. Nagato and Madara alone were labeled as Second and Third Six Paths.

      And Obito couldn't handle his zetsu body until he could. naruto couldn't handle Kurama until he could. If Nagato can use the Rinnegan so well because he's a senju descendant, Obito is twice as qualified. And so i once more return to what i said earlier: The only difference is time. Time to learn and adjust.

      (Sidenote: we don't know why Obito "nearly lost control". But two things on that: Nagato used rinnegan and lost control, killing a bunch of shinobi. And we saw Obito do pretty crazy things like controlling biju. Wouldn't it make sense that Obito overestimated his control over rinnegan, transplanted it, tried to use a high-level jutsu and nearly lost control because of it? Not realizing that it took Nagato years before he did anything serious with it like summoning Gedo?)

      Sasukesaradasakura wrote: what do you mean by "reaching full potential as uchiha"? If it's not MS, then what is it? rinnegan?,,,,

      It's irrelevant. There's no such thing as a "full potential" Uzumaki. There's nothing to suggest Nagato was special in any way other than being connected to the Senju clan. Why then would Obito need to be a "fully realized uchiha", whatever it may mean? If lineage is all that counts, Obito counts double.

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    • OK nagato is weakest character in narutouniverse by your logic.

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    • That's already redundant. The point is that Obito wasn't that weak in controlling the Rinnegan compared to Nagato. If Senju lineage was the reason Madara choose him as Rinnegan's host, then by the pure logic, Obito, a shinobi of Uchiha lineage + with pure Senju DNA of Asura's reincarnate (which even Nagato didn't possess) should have exceeded Nagato in Rinnegan mastery if he was chosen as its host in Nagato's place. It's even evidenced by Obito using high-level Rinnegan techniques almost immeadiately after its transplantation (though he initially seemed to have some problems).

      Also, as I said earlier, neither of Nagato's abilities show him "reaching the full potentian" as Uzumaki either (no chakra chains, no Uzumaki hax regeneration etc).

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    • Kakashisologod wrote: OK nagato is weakest character in narutouniverse by your logic.

      Nagato's not weak, and obito's neither. Both of them are very strong shinobi.

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    • @Ravelnot27 but u cant compare kushina and nagato since nagato is 50% uzumaki and 50% senju.Also do we count that deva path rengenerated quite fast,is that becuse of nagatos regeneration or no?

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    • Kakashisologod wrote: @Ravelnot27 but u cant compare kushina and nagato since nagato is 50% uzumaki and 50% senju.Also do we count that deva path rengenerated quite fast,is that becuse of nagatos regeneration or no?

      And where is it stated that Nagato is 50% Senju? Okay, Madara called him a Senju descendant, but since the entire Uzumaki clan is related to Senju, Madara likely meant that Nagato was a Senju descendant through Uzumaki lineage. Also, even if Nagato possessed some healing factor, I don't think his Paths, essentially just dead bodies, would share it. It's a power connected to Uzumaki DNA, yet the Paths had no way to have it, all they had was Nagato's chakra he channeled through them.

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    • One of the nagatos parents is uzumaki and the other one senju,thats why i think my calculations are right.

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    • Doesn't necessary have to be so. All we know for sure is that Nagato belongs to Uzumaki clan, and Uzumaki = Senju lineage.

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    • It was hinted but never confirmed that Nagato is half Senju half Uzumaki. Multiple times he was called a Senju/Senju descendant and he was confirmed to be Uzumaki too.

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    • Kakashisologod wrote: OK nagato is weakest character in narutouniverse by your logic.

      Maybe you ought to read what i write, in stead of just baselessly assuming things.

      Ravenlot 27 wrote: Doesn't necessary have to be so. All we know for sure is that Nagato belongs to Uzumaki clan, and Uzumaki = Senju lineage.

      We know that the Senju and Uzumaki share a common ancestor. It's not clear what that ancestor was: whether Uzumaki are an offshoot of the Senju or vice versa, or whether they trace back to Ashura Otsutsuki and that predecessor clan split into Senju and uzumaki.

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    • He was called a Senju descendand only once, when Madara mentioned that Nagato was quite suitable person for the Rinnegan transplantation due to his Senju lineage. Even if I just cannot recall when he was called a Senju again, it could still mean that Madara called him that way because of Uzumaki's relation with Senju. It's the most possible version.

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    • Ravenlot 27 wrote: He was called a Senju descendand only once, when Madara mentioned that Nagato was quite suitable person for the Rinnegan transplantation due to his Senju lineage. Even if I just cannot recall when he was called a Senju again, it could still mean that Madara called him that way because of Uzumaki's relation with Senju. It's the most possible version.

      Agreed, I always think about senju and uzumaki as one, through marriage, maybe.

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    • Sasukesaradasakura wrote: Agreed, I always think about senju and uzumaki as one, through marriage, maybe.

      Considering that the Uzumaki seem ideal jinchuriki and share a powerful body as their "clan ability" with the Senju, i think they simply were one clan at some point that geographically separated and eventually developed differently. Ashura and Indra are still Otsutsuki, so it's not clear at what point these Otsutsuki clans became Senju and Uchiha clans.

      Ravenlot 27 wrote: He was called a Senju descendand only once

      During/after the Gokage summit, Obito talks about the conflict between the Sons and says something like "Hashirama and Madara, Naruto and Sasuke, Senju and Uchiha". It's not clear if he implies that Naruto's clan is essentially a Senju clan or whether it's mean to be symbolic (since Konoha accepted Senju ideology and are essentially Senju surrogates)

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    • Thekillman wrote:

      Sasukesaradasakura wrote: Agreed, I always think about senju and uzumaki as one, through marriage, maybe.

      Considering that the Uzumaki seem ideal jinchuriki and share a powerful body as their "clan ability" with the Senju, i think they simply were one clan at some point that geographically separated and eventually developed differently. Ashura and Indra are still Otsutsuki, so it's not clear at what point these Otsutsuki clans became Senju and Uchiha clans.

      Ravenlot 27 wrote: He was called a Senju descendand only once

      During/after the Gokage summit, Obito talks about the conflict between the Sons and says something like "Hashirama and Madara, Naruto and Sasuke, Senju and Uchiha". It's not clear if he implies that Naruto's clan is essentially a Senju clan or whether it's mean to be symbolic (since Konoha accepted Senju ideology and are essentially Senju surrogates)

      I think Otsutsuki became uchiha after Indra lost to Ashura and pursue his own goal.

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