Shadowflame55555 wrote: I don't know about Tengai Shinsei, but Madara didn't teach anybody about Limbo because he wanted to keep it to himself as a personal trump card. His conversation to Obito atop the Ten Tails made it clear that neither fully trusted the other and both had their own reasons for what they were doing, and they would willingly sacrifice the other for their own goals.
Just prior to facing Might Guy, Madara did not want to use Limbo because he knew Obito could see it with the Rinnegan, so if he could have helped it, Madara would have never wanted the secrets of Limbo to be revealed to anyone.
Shadows from Rinbo cannot be seen without Rinnegan which no one possesses except Nagato before the war. Moreover, shadows are invulnerable unless you have Six Paths Chakra. Both Naruto and Sasuke didn't have it before. So in this case it doesn't matter if you aware or unaware of this jutsu because you have no powers to counter it.
JOA20 wrote:
Namikazenaruto9 wrote:
it was only mentioned for indra and his reincarnates....
not for asura or his reincarnates...that's why BZ was after indra and his reincarnates trying to make them awaken the rinnegan.
Hagoromo himself said that in order to awaken the Rinnegan, one must combine Indra and Asura's chakras to bring forth Hagoromo's chakra, it doesn't matter who. Indra's reincarnations have better chances at awakening the Rinnegan, I'll give you that, but one can't awaken Six Paths Sage Mode by oneself without Hagoromo's gift.
Madara's statements debunk that. when fighting Naruto and Sasuke Madara says" one of them has the Rinnegan, the other has the senjutsu of the six paths, I have them both"
Elveonora wrote: I'm almost positive that Asura incarnates could get the Rinnegan if they were to get their hands on chakra/Sharingan of an Indra incarnate, but I think Indra incarnate getting Asura incarnate chakra results in a superior Rinnegan or at least usage, because we were told that only original user of eyes can use their full power and an Asura incarnate taking eyes of an Indra incarnate wouldn't make him the original eye owner.
i disagree. if that is the case then Sasuke's EMS wouldn't be as efficient as Itachi's Mangekyou Sharingan because they were not sasuke's original eyes. if Sasuke were to give Naruto his EMS the eye would then evolve into a Rinnegan. said eye wouldn't be sasuke's Rinnegan it would be Naruto's Rinnegan the same way Sasuke's EMS is his EMS and not itachi's
Ravenlot 27
wrong. Black Zetsu specifically stated that he pitted both clans against each other to get either side to awaken the Rinnegan. he then stated later on that he didn't suceed until Madara. but he specifically stated he tried with both clans
Thekillman
it was specifically stated that Nagato Mastered the Rinnegan
in the end its illogical to believe that only Indra's side could use the Rinnegan properly. if Asura's transmigrant were to get a hold of Indra's transmigrants Flesh, chakra or Sharingan. the eyes would eventually evolve in the case of Flesh or chakra eventually there normal eyes would turn into Hagoromo's eyes. if they took the eyes of Indra's transmigrant once the Eyes evolved and became Rinnegan they would be the eyes of whom ever they evolved in. the proof is in the fact that both Madara and Sasuke's EMS are there own EMS not that of there brothers. so no matter what. If Hashirama or naruto or any of asura's transmigrants got a hold of Indra's power the merging of them would become Hagoromo's power
on a side note. the Senjutsu of the six paths doesn't come about just because the individual gets it given to them from hagoromo Madara specifically stated that He has both the Rinnegan and the senjutsu of the six paths. the only required method to have the Senjutsu of the six paths is to have six paths power as well as senjutsu
^ Madara got Six Paths Senjutsu by becoming Ten-Tails jinchūriki. It is said pretty straight that only way one gets Six Paths Sage Mode(the one Naruto uses) is by receiving it from Hagoromo.
Actionmanrandell wrote: i disagree. if that is the case then Sasuke's EMS wouldn't be as efficient as Itachi's Mangekyou Sharingan because they were not sasuke's original eyes. if Sasuke were to give Naruto his EMS the eye would then evolve into a Rinnegan. said eye wouldn't be sasuke's Rinnegan it would be Naruto's Rinnegan the same way Sasuke's EMS is his EMS and not itachi's
Actually, I have to disagree with the "eyes" issue. Itachi's eyes are compatible with Sasuke (because they are his sibling's eyes), so they are assimilated by him and essentially become his own eyes when transplantated. Otherwise the EMS cannot be created, since there's a necessity of the compatible eyes - compatible by genetics and by chakra. Naruto isn't Sasuke's sibling, so if he gets Sasuke's EMS, for example, it still would be a foreign material for his body and he must be accustomed with it, which is a lot harder for him cause he doesn't possess the special chakra of the Uchiha in the brain (the one which influences the eye nerve and awakens the Uchiha doujustu). Only thanks to this chakra and it's influence on sibling's transplanted MS, the EMS appearance is possible. Yeah, if evolved into the Rinnegan, the eyes become Naruto's own Rinnegan, but the point stands clear - doujutsu isn't his speciality, so his mastership of the Rinnegan, if not inferior to an Uchiha, would need a lot more time and training to perfect.
Edit: again nope, BZ specifically stated that the Uchiha clan was chosen by him as a main tool to achieve his goal. Otherwise he wouldn't be so fixed on them, tempting Indra, rewriting the Uchiha Stone Tablet and influencing Madara.
2TheKillman
That's exactly what I mean: Nagato could not use Rinbo at all. There were an opinion that Nagato just didn't know about this technique and that's why I tried to explain that leaving him unawared about this powerful technique was a bad idea of Madara.
I agree with your opinion that Obito's plan to destroy Konoha was strange and stupid because he lost the whole Kurama while he was in Obito's possession.
Ravenlot 27 wrote:
Actionmanrandell wrote: i disagree. if that is the case then Sasuke's EMS wouldn't be as efficient as Itachi's Mangekyou Sharingan because they were not sasuke's original eyes. if Sasuke were to give Naruto his EMS the eye would then evolve into a Rinnegan. said eye wouldn't be sasuke's Rinnegan it would be Naruto's Rinnegan the same way Sasuke's EMS is his EMS and not itachi's
Actually, I have to disagree with the "eyes" issue. Itachi's eyes are compatible with Sasuke (because they are his sibling's eyes), so they are assimilated by him and essentially become his own eyes when transplantated. Otherwise the EMS cannot be created, since there's a necessity of the compatible eyes - compatible by genetics and by chakra. Naruto isn't Sasuke's sibling, so if he gets Sasuke's EMS, for example, it still would be a foreign material for his body and he must be accustomed with it, which is a lot harder for him cause he doesn't possess the special chakra of the Uchiha in the brain (the one which influences the eye nerve and awakens the Uchiha doujustu). Only thanks to this chakra and it's influence on sibling's transplanted MS, the EMS appearance is possible. Yeah, if evolved into the Rinnegan, the eyes become Naruto's own Rinnegan, but the point stands clear - doujutsu isn't his speciality, so his mastership of the Rinnegan, if not inferior to an Uchiha, would need a lot more time and training to perfect.
Edit: again nope, BZ specifically stated that the Uchiha clan was chosen by him as a main tool to achieve his goal. Otherwise he wouldn't be so fixed on them, tempting Indra, rewriting the Uchiha Stone Tablet and influencing Madara.
the entire point Of the transmigrant thing is that mixing there chakra's creates hagoromo's it is illogical to believe that Naruto wouldn't be able to use that power masterfully
and black zetsu said that he focused on both clans this is an irrefutable fact. he altered the stone tablet so that who ever got the Rinnegan would believe in the eye of the moon plan.
JouXIII
it was never once was said that. Not once. what happens when one comines natural energy with chakra? it creates senjutsu. so it is 100% logical that combining Six paths power with Senjutsu would in fact give the person six paths senjutsu. in fact it never once said that hagoroomo gave naruto the senjutsu of the six paths he gave both naruto and sasuke the six paths power he didn't give Sasuke the Rinnegan and Naruto the senjutsu of the six paths he simply gave them six paths power. because sasuke already had the EMS his eye evolved into a Rinnegan because Naruto already has senjutsu he gained the senjutsu of the six paths not once does it EVER say that it was a gift from hagoromo
Actionmanrandell wrote: in fact it never once said that hagoroomo gave naruto the senjutsu of the six paths
It is actually stated that Hagoromo gave Naruto the Six Paths Sage Mode. Right at the start of the page.
@Actionmanrandell, again, I have to repeat that BZ focused mainly on the Uchiha clan. Asura's descendants aren't able to read the stone tablet due to their complete lack of doujutsu, while those of Indra can already read something with just the Sharingan. It was the entire point of the content's encryption - the tablet was originally ment for Indra's descendants, by both Hagoromo and BZ. And BZ's sentence that the IT is the Uchiha jutsu and is going to save the Uchiha should finally convince that BZ used only Uchiha clan in his pursuit of the Rinnegan recreation. Besides, it even seems like Madara was preparing the Eye of the Moon plan after reading the tablet just with his MS (EMS, to be precise), he already had no chance to reread it with the Rinnegan upon his awakening.
@actionmanrandell The databook says pretty clearly that only Hagoromo can give Six Paths Sage Mode(the one Naruto uses). Obito and Madara got access to Six Paths Senjutsu by becoming Ten-Tails jinchūriki through use of Six Paths Ten-Tails Coffin Seal. While both ways allows the use of Six Paths Senjutsu, they are still different.
I suggest you actually read the articles.
Ravenlot 27 wrote: Actually, I have to disagree with the "eyes" issue. Itachi's eyes are compatible with Sasuke (because they are his sibling's eyes), so they are assimilated by him and essentially become his own eyes when transplantated. Otherwise the EMS cannot be created, since there's a necessity of the compatible eyes - compatible by genetics and by chakra. Naruto isn't Sasuke's sibling
They are technically sibling, if not by blood they are by chakra, so they are compatible, being transmigrants and all. I see where you are coming from, dojutsu are Indra and his descendants thing so we assume that they'll wield it skilfully, but in terms of power or lets say potential they should be equal ...
For ones saying Nagato could use Limbo but didn't knew about it, how Madara knew about it in the first place. Nagato probably wielded Rinnegan longer that Madara himself. If Madara learned it by himself Nagato would definitely done the same. It's safe to assume Nagato only had access to basic Rinnegan abilities aka six paths.
EDIT: @JOU I wouldn't take things literally about Hag giving mode to Naruto but unlocking it (Naruto couldn't access tbs power before meeting Hag despite having chakra of most tbs) since Naruto already had requirements (nine tailed beasts and senjutsu). Madara got it from Juubi, Naruto from all beasts. And before u say how Naruto still has it despite being low (or at zero) on tb chakra, once its awakened it stays permanently same as Rinnegan. Thats just my opinion anyway.