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  • dealing w/ typical itachi hype wankers and annoying low balling nagato fanboys, so i can't trust either side. need to know if this contains chakra since if it's chakra, it can be sense by chakra sensors or it's not meaning it can't sense it's range(blade) coming(except sagemode obviously)

    quick references

    - existence was acknowledge by orochimaru. (meaning it exist pre-susanoo)

    - for some reason itachi only reveals it in his armored susanoo state.

    - sasuke gained itachi's power(quote) but did not obtain the spiritual weapons.

    - databook makes no mention of it being chakra but ethereal

    - manga makes no mention of chakra but no physical form.

    - something about the sealing part being made of drunken sake.

    - the perfect counter to kusanagi(orochimaru's sword)

    - continuously sealed victims even after it dispersed.

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    • "The sword has been popularly mistranslated as a "perfect counter to the Kusanagi".". Do you even trivia, brah?

      In all seriousness, it was said that the sword is made of sake.

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    • Seelentau wrote: "The sword has been popularly mistranslated as a "perfect counter to the Kusanagi".". Do you even trivia, brah?

      In all seriousness, it was said that the sword is made of sake.

      so it's not chakra related. okay

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    • Well, in a magical universe where chakra is the basis of every special power, I'd bet my left hand that it's somehow related to chakra, but we don't know how. After all, sake usually doesn't take on the form of a sword.

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    • Seelentau wrote: Well, in a magical universe where chakra is the basis of every special power, I'd bet my left hand that it's somehow related to chakra, but we don't know how. After all, sake usually doesn't take on the form of a sword.

      Yeah, if it's jutsu related or coated by chakra. both of which totsuka is not. i think the blade requires chakra to activate (susanoo) but the sword itself is not. similar to orochimaru's living corpse reincarnation jutsu and six path sealing pot. both of which is similar to totsuka since all 3 involves shifting souls to it's new location.

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    • Sayian101 wrote: Yeah, if it's jutsu related or coated by chakra. both of which totsuka is not. i think the blade requires chakra to activate (susanoo) but the sword itself is not. similar to orochimaru's living corpse reincarnation jutsu and six path sealing pot. both of which is similar to totsuka since all 3 involves shifting souls to it's new location.

      i dont think susanoo is required :I, otherwise orochimaru would have no use in this blade :)

      mostlikely it is a normal artifact which is like the examples you mentioned but itachi somehow fused it with his susanoo, the same with the mirror ^_^

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    • Do you really think someone as Orochimaru would stop looking for a super-strong sword just because he wouldn't be able to use it? Remember, he wanted Itachi's and Sasuke's bodies. He probably would've been able to use it afterwards.

      Oh and the sword is jutsu-related. It's imbued with a genjutsu, which in turn requires chakra.

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    • Seelentau wrote: In all seriousness, it was said that the sword is made of sake.

      Seelentau wrote: After all, sake usually doesn't take on the form of a sword.

      I though it was more, like, the chakra was taking on the likeness of liquid/sake spilling from a gourd, not literally sake.

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    • It's literally sake^^

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    • Since Totsuka (and by extension Yata Mirror) are part of Itachi's Susanoo, which is a chakra construct, yes, they are made of chakra.

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    • Not true. At least for the sword. And who said they're part of Itachi's Susanoo, anyway?

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    • SuperSaiyaMan wrote: Since Totsuka (and by extension Yata Mirror) are part of Itachi's Susanoo, which is a chakra construct, yes, they are made of chakra.

      the blade is formed from the sake in the jar

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    • Seelentau wrote: Not true. At least for the sword. And who said they're part of Itachi's Susanoo, anyway?

      Third Databook. And if they aren't part of Itachi's Susanoo, why are they made of the exact same chakra that his Susanoo is made of?

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    • The sword isn't, as I said. And the databook doesn't state that they're "part of Susanoo". It just says Susanoo holds them in their hands.

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    • Seelentau wrote: The sword isn't, as I said. And the databook doesn't state that they're "part of Susanoo". It just says Susanoo holds them in their hands.

      THat doesn't make any sense. We've seen them form with Itachi's Susanoo both in the anime and manga. If they aren't part of Itachi's Susanoo, what the hell are they?

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    • They're ethereal weapons held by Itachi's Susanoo.

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    • Seelentau wrote: They're ethereal weapons held by Itachi's Susanoo.

      They cease being ethereal weapons when they are used by Itachi's Susanoo.

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    • How so?

      By the way, I meant incorporeal, not ethereal. But they're really just weapons, the sword is made of sake from the gourd, the shield is probably chakra, since it can take on every nature transformation. Plus, Orochimaru looked for them, so at one point, they weren't in Itachi's possession. Or how would Orochimaru know about them if they only existed since Itachi had his Susanoo?

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    • Seelentau wrote: How so?

      By the way, I meant incorporeal, not ethereal. But they're really just weapons, the sword is made of sake from the gourd, the shield is probably chakra, since it can take on every nature transformation. Plus, Orochimaru looked for them, so at one point, they weren't in Itachi's possession. Or how would Orochimaru know about them if they only existed since Itachi had his Susanoo?

      Itachi did probably integrated them into his Susanoo. When they are part of his Susanoo, they're made up of the same chakra material. And we've seen that 'sake' be shaped into a blade, so there has to be chakra manipulation in it.

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    • As I said, the sword is sake. Heaven knows how it's transformed into a blade. Probably chakra, but that doesn't make the sake chakra.

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    • SuperSaiyaMan wrote: Itachi did probably integrated them into his Susanoo. When they are part of his Susanoo, they're made up of the same chakra material. And we've seen that 'sake' be shaped into a blade, so there has to be chakra manipulation in it.

      How is this different from Orochimaru and his Kusanagi? for all we know, Itachi used a similar swallowing technique on the Mirror and Blade and it simply manifests in his Susanoo because he wishes to. Nobody asks if the Kusanagi Orochimaru manifests in thousands of snakes are real or chakra or whatever.

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    • ^ Since its became part of Itachi's Susanoo. They've became converted into the same chakra that Susanoo has so they can be wielded.

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    • But that was never stated? o.o

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    • Seelentau wrote: But that was never stated? o.o

      ...does it need to be stated? They're clearly made of the same chakra that Susanoo is when Itachi uses them. Thus they cease to be spirit weapons, they're part of Itachi's jutsu. If they weren't part of the technique, they'd have a different appearance.

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    • SuperSaiyaMan wrote: If they weren't part of the technique, they'd have a different appearance.

      again, orochimaru and his Kusanagi. It changes based upon how he wants to use it. Why Itachi manifest Totsuka as an ethereal susanoo weapon?

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    • SuperSaiyaMan wrote: ...does it need to be stated? They're clearly made of the same chakra that Susanoo is when Itachi uses them.

      But they aren't, the databook even states that the sword is made of sake? I don't get you...

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    • Seelentau wrote: But they aren't, the databook even states that the sword is made of sake? I don't get you...

      ...how can the sword be made of sake? That doesn't make any sense.

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    • ...in a fictional world with mountain-tall entities you're looking for logic?

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    • Seelentau wrote: ...in a fictional world with mountain-tall entities you're looking for logic?

      In the terms of the logic of the series, yes. The gourd which contains the sword is made of the same material as Susanoo. As does the Yata Mirror. Stands to reason that Totsuka Sword is also made of chakra. Hell if it was just sake it should be used by spraying it into the target's mouth, not as a blade that needs to pierce to put it into a fuinjutsu and genjutsu.

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    • This "material" is either chakra or something unknown. That doesn't mean that the sword is made from the same material as the gourd. Or are the water bottles in your country made of water? I mean, you can believe what you want, but the databook and plain logic say otherwise.

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    • Seelentau wrote: This "material" is either chakra or something unknown. That doesn't mean that the sword is made from the same material as the gourd. Or are the water bottles in your country made of water? I mean, you can believe what you want, but the databook and plain logic say otherwise.

      Isn't the databook written in colorful language? It does mention stuff like 'light speed' for Haku's attacks.

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    • Now you're just grasping at straws. :D

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    • SuperSaiyaMan wrote: Hell if it was just sake it should be used by spraying it into the target's mouth, not as a blade that needs to pierce to put it into a fuinjutsu and genjutsu.

      Then the whole Susanoo/Orochi/Kusanagi/Yata/Yasaka/Totsuka symbolism wouldn't work anymore.

      According to the legend, Susanoo defeated Orochi with a Totsuka blade (it's a type of blade) while making the snake drunk with Sake. It's why Orochimaru (based on Orochi) was defeated by the Totsuka blade, why Itachi's Susanoo wielded those weapons. And why, against any sense of logic, the Totsuka blade in Naruto is made of Sake.

      I'm just going to mention this again: there's no reason to believe that the Yata and Totsuka in Susanoo's possession were the actual weapons. People have "stored" weapons before and have channeled those weapons through other jutsu before.

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    • Seelentau wrote: Plus, Orochimaru looked for them, so at one point, they weren't in Itachi's possession. Or how would Orochimaru know about them if they only existed since Itachi had his Susanoo?

      Have you considered the possibility of this armament being used through another Uchiha ancestor's Susanoo from the distant past? Maybe even before Indra's descendants came to be known as the Uchiha?

      Of course, that would raise questions concerning how this ethereal/spiritual object(which I have always presumed to be described this way because they are comprised of the immaterial chakra from which it originates) is known as a type of Kusanagi no Tsurugi, and what defines this "brand" of grass cutters in general... Which we'll never get answers to. ._.

      People keep coming to the conclusion that Itachi went seeking out these items to accessorize his Susanoo with, just because they have vague history, and Orochimaru sought one of them out. Admittedly, it's the easiest conclusion to reach, but it's not the only one available to us—and this is why I've insisted that Itachi's acquisition of these items be left vague in their related articles on this wiki in the past.

      I still personally believe they are just as inherently a part of Itachi's ocular power as the Enton weaponry/sabre, and kris-lookin' blades are to Sasuke and Madara's. It's not like they would be the only "legendary" items forged from a prior established, innate ability... See: the Nunoboko no Ken.

      Not even trying to turn this into a debate, just offering my two cents.

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    • Then again, if they were only ever used by Susanoo users, wouldn't someone like Orochimaru know that? The only thing that could've stopped him from knowing Itachi had the weapons would've been not knowing that Itachi was able to use Susanoo in the first place.

      As a random thought: Would've been nice if, in the flashbacks, Madara was able to use those weapons.

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    • Time can have a way of disassociating closely related topics. I imagine that would be moreso with rare, and closely guarded bloodline techniques like Susanoo.

      I appreciate the irony of Orochimaru desperately seeking out a weapon that lied with one of the abilities he coveted the most.

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    • I think the closest thing we can compare blade of Totsuka is Gaara's sand, which is infused with chakra.

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    • Nunoboki is to me just a technique name. TSB's can already change shape and composition into whatever the user needs. Nunoboko doesn't seem to be anything other than just a shape.

      Sasuke's sword is called Kusanagi as well, i believe. It's possible these legendary weapons are simply remade, and the secret to their creation is what's valuable.

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    • Thekillman wrote: Nunoboki is to me just a technique name. TSB's can already change shape and composition into whatever the user needs. Nunoboko doesn't seem to be anything other than just a shape.

      And yet, Obito deemed it a "holy relic". :P

      Not all that different from the manner in which the Totsuka no Tsurugi and Yata no Kagami are distinguished from other Susanoo's armaments.

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    • SaiST wrote: And yet, Obito deemed it a "holy relic". :P

      If memory serves the sealing pot and jar were inside Obito at the time, so it's possible that somehow he gained that weapon from that. But to me it's more logical that he accessed the Juubi's memories (surely it has memories) and learned of how Hagoromo formed the weapon. Besides, there's a fairly thin line to walk between a technique-formed weapon and a weapon-turned-technique. The last time that discussion was made, it was shut down as it led nowhere.

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