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  • Who will win?

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    • It's impossible for the 3rd to win.

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    • Sarutobii2 wrote: It's impossible for the 3rd to win.

      Why? He is much faster and his weapon is stronger than Rasenshuriken.

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    • Because Itachi is an Edo. That means his chakra reserves will probably never run out and he regenerates any damage. Unless the Raikage has the Kohaku no Jōhei he literally has no way of winning.

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    • Curse of Hatred wrote: Because Itachi is an Edo. That means his chakra reserves will probably never run out and he regenerates any damage. Unless the Raikage has the Kohaku no Jōhei he literally has no way of winning.

      Ok, I will change in Prime Itachi vs Raikage (which means Edo Itachi without ability to regenerate of any damage, but not sick). But won't Edo go back to the Pure Land after some time.

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    • Itachi still wins. Yata Mirror can defend against the Raikage's attacks and Itachi can use a simple genjutsu whenever the Raikage is in range.

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    • itachi probably could genjtuse the 3rd raikage and seal him with his sword.

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    • Hard to say, Itachi can win with his genjutsu prowess but first he'd have to make eye contact with the Raikage. With the Raikage's phenomenal speed and reflexes he shouldn't have a problem blitzing Itachi and attacking his susanoo (which he would have to use to not die almost immediately) and Itachi has his yata mirror to defend. But it's not omnidirectional and the Raikage could easily change his position and attack Itachi from another side incredibly fast. But Itachi also has amaterasu and the totsuka blade to use against him (if it can pierce his skin). So it's a pretty close match if you ask me.

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    • itachi doesn't need eye contact to use genjutsu.

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    • Godsenju wrote: itachi doesn't need eye contact to use genjutsu.

      For his most powerful ones he does. The only genjutsu he's casted with his finger was that weird one on Naruto that didn't do much to him. He's never casted any Sharingan genjutsu without eye contact and definitely not Tsukuyomi.

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    • Agreed. He needs eye contact for a genjutsu like Tsukuyomi, but he's more than capable of catching the Third without it.

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    • This might be one for the theory and speculation board, but does Itachi need to move the Yata mirror quick enough to defend himself from an attack or is it a 360 ting???

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    • Raikage has no chance. He cant even so much as scratch itachi through the yata mirror, he is nowheere near as smart, he will get rekt by anyone of itachis genjutsu. Itachi's finger genjutsu is pretty dam good so dont know why its being downplayed. Itachi has the wisdom experience and the intelligence to connect the totsuka blade or make the raikage hit himself. Raikage only advantage is speed but thst isnt enough. Itachi can make the yata mirror 360 if need be. It was already shown changing size and if you read the databook it confirms it can change any of its properties. Anyone who thinks otherwise is in denial.

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    • Wait so Itachi is fast enough to get Third in genjutsu even though the Sharingan can't keep up at looking at him?? Sasuke couldn't even turn his head quick enough to see A's attack. Yata mirror is a good shout but lets see how many times Itachi can use Susanoo to block Third's flurry.

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    • I never understood people who use that logic. Blitzing people has several flaws. First of all substitution, susanoo, genjutsu , amaterasu to the face are all counters itachi has since he has good reflexes and fast hand sign speed. When you blitz your opponent and if you miss you cant immediately change direction and during that time you are susceptible to counter attack. If you dont believe me watch raikage vs minato. If raikage blitzes he is susceptible to almost all of itachi's genjutsu since he isnt focused he is just charging head on and he also isnt smart enough to avoid getting trapped. Lol dont compare that idiot sasuke to itachi. He should have been killed by the liger bomb and also he was stupid for using amaterasu in that situation, he should know that amaterasu ing him before blitzing is stupid since raikage can just side step. He also isnt as skilled at genjutsu as itachi and if he was smart he would use a smoke bomb first so raikage's blitzing isnt as effective.

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    • If 4th Raikage couldn't blitz Madara then 3rd can't blitz Itachi. Itachi would kill 3rd after a long battle.. only because of his battle sense, strategic mind, wits and intelligence. Itachi isn't a brute force fighter he wins with everything other than brute force although he is capable of mustering that up, he doesn't.

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    • It wont be a long battle at all, especially if raikage idotically opens with a blitz. He will run right into totuska blade

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    • MlGshinobi wrote: I never understood people who use that logic. Blitzing people has several flaws. First of all substitution, susanoo, genjutsu , amaterasu to the face are all counters itachi has.

      Third can break Susanoo but YM can negate his attack but Itachi can't keep Susanoo up for long. Even minus the sickness he can't keep it up for long - not as long as Sasuke.

      When you blitz your opponent and if you miss you cant immediately change direction and during that time you are susceptible to counter attack. If you dont believe me watch raikage vs minato.

      A had all markings covered and minato didn't counterattack he just attacked Bee

      If raikage blitzes he is susceptible to almost all of itachi's genjutsu since he isnt focused he is just charging head on and he also isnt smart enough to avoid getting trapped.

      Like I said, Sharigan can't even keep up with Third's movement so how can you put Third in Genjutsu. (Too fast to point at him)

      Lol dont compare that idiot sasuke to itachi.

      This just proves you're a fanboy.

      He should have been killed by the liger bomb and also he was stupid for using amaterasu in that situation, he should know that amaterasu ing him before blitzing is stupid since raikage can just side step.

      He should have been killed by LB but Amaterasu, have you fought a Raikage before?? So how was he supposed to know

      He also isnt as skilled at genjutsu as itachi and if he was smart he would use a smoke bomb first so raikage's blitzing isnt as effective.

      Let's say as Itachi is throwing his smoke bomb Third hasn't got behind him already. And lets say Third is disorientated by the smoke bomb and after he dissipates it Itachi is gone :O As soon as he swings TB or counterattacks Third is already counterattacking him.

      Third and A can blitz because they are just that good. I understand what you're saying. Kid-Kakashi when using Chidori shouldn't because he susceptible to counterattacks. But in the Raikage and Minato "fight" Raikage is attacking whilst looking at all of Minato Kunai's to see where he jumps too. HE'S NOT EVEN LOOKING AT MINATO. People like this can blitz and should. They're not average joes who have to obey basic principles like not going in battle head first because they are incredibly strong shinobi. Kinda like how the Kage ET's were purposely reckless because they knew they would regenerate.

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    • Like I said, if raikage is blitzing in a straight line genjutsu is easy to cast on him. The shortest distance between two points is a straight line. If raikage takes another path its even easier for itachi to set up his defense. If itachi uses his smoke bomb raikage is disoriented and has to stop and retrack himself. In that time he will be stabbed by totsuka. Again bee was the one that saved ayy from his failed blitz. Like I said rewatch the fight.

      How am I a fanboy? You comparing two different characters who have vastly different fighting styles and intelligence. So im free to dimiss your point itachi doesnt equal sasuke and is by far superior. Sasukse had plenty of time to know because he saw how fast raikage was prior. I never said itachi can track raikage speed but he wont need to if the raikage is dumb enough to start with a blitz without excerising caution.

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    • Just like there is no bathroom, there is no straight line. Itachi won't be able to see where Raikage is coming from. When A when into to attack Minato, countered yes in the first instance(BTW what was Minato gonna do after that Sasuke chidori didn't faze him and that only hit because it was of Lighting nature).

      If Raikage retreats how will he get hit by Totsuka blade. This smoke scenario is only because of Nagato and TB has never been used on someone with as much speed as Third Raikage so easily I can say he can dodge it.

      The only reason why I think you're are a fanboy is from other Itachi realted debates it just doesn't seem like you're are looking at both sides and just how Itachi can win. Its also annoying for me to hear you say read the manga whilst saying not to compare Sasuke and Itachi when Cee in the Manga compares them mentioning how he is more skilled due to his ability in the shape manipulation of Amaterasu.

      If it helps Itachi is my favorite character in the series and although I came into this fight thinking its a one sided victory for Third I'm starting to see some ways Itachi could win only if Yata mirror can keep up with Third's speed.

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    • @Ishi208 how do you know that the third would be able to break the susanoo?My memory is not very good,so correct if I'm wrong, but the only time that a susanoo was really breaked was when hashirama removed majestic attire from kyubi.

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    • Tsunade broke Susanoo, and Onoki boosted Ei so much he broke Susanoo.. before that he only broke one rib on the incomplete Susanoo. So Ei can't break a Itachi's Susanoo.

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    • tsunade only broke a rib imcomplete susanoo.

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    • I laughed when I saw that A only broke a rib but its completely true. However, A put a hole thorugh Madara's Humanoid Susanoo albeit with the help of Onoki's make things heavy jutsu. Couple this with Third is stronger than A since he's the strongest Raikage ever as well as what his Hell stab did to the wall of earth and rubber (Which was only at four fingers) and the power the Third generates is just incomprehensible. His feats (apart from how he died) are nearly all whilst he was ET also so he's much stronger alive. TBH I find it hard to believe Third was beat by only 10000 ninja's when he was taking dozens out like it was nothing as an ET. Itachi just doesn't have the reflexes to hit him or react for Yata to block.

      Oh and Itachi doesn't have EMS so Susanoo's use is limited and won't be up for long. It's his last resort and even without his illness he still has low stamina and causes incredible pain.

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    • Itachi can catch him in Genjutsu, or use Sword of Totsuka, or even use amaterasu.. yea the third is one of the most devastating and powerful shinobi to ever live.. but he isn't genjutsu proof and those amaterasu flames can definitely burn him and the sword of totsuka can seal him.. he can't break the yata mirror either. Itachi needs to worry about defense not offense. Itachi can beat him with his smarts.

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    • QuakingStar wrote: Itachi can catch him in Genjutsu, or use Sword of Totsuka, or even use amaterasu.. yea the third is one of the most devastating and powerful shinobi to ever live.. but he isn't genjutsu proof and those amaterasu flames can definitely burn him and the sword of totsuka can seal him.. he can't break the yata mirror either. Itachi needs to worry about defense not offense. Itachi can beat him with his smarts.

      He can dodge Amaterasu and Totsuka blade. He doesn't know for Amaterasu, but he won't wait for Itachi to hit him with Amaterasu.

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    • Do we even know that the Totsuka blade can even harm the Third Raikage? The Third was described as having a body known as the strongest shield, even the Rasenshuriken didn't even pierce his body. It is quite possible that the Totsuka blade will have no effect on him because it cannot pierce him.

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    • It doesn't actually need to pierce him to seal him. It needs to touch him. Itachi can stun him with Genjutsu and then bam its over.. even 1 second is enough for Itachi.

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    • QuakingStar wrote: It doesn't actually need to pierce him to seal him. It needs to touch him. Itachi can stun him with Genjutsu and then bam its over.. even 1 second is enough for Itachi.

      It does needs to pierce him in order to seal him. As proven when Itachi used the Totsuka Blade to slice of the snake-heads of Orochimaru's giant, 8-headed snake form

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    • Will Totsuka Blade work against the strongest shield?

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    • 3rds mind is just as vulnerable as anybody elses.. Itachi would get him with the full force Tsukuyomi and that would finish him.

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    • The Third is too fast for Tsukuyomi, because eye contact would be nigh impossible.

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    • No he isn't, Itachi only needs a split second to catch him in it.. he only needs to halt him for that long to get him.

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    • I dont think that cuold work sasuke wasnt fast enough to hit fourth raikage with amaterasu which is one of teh fastest attacks in teh series

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    • Amaterasu is out of the question unless Itachi uses for defense like he did against Kabuto but Raikage it too quick for him to get it up so yh. @Minato 87 I was thinking that as well about TB but its sort of a mystical/magical sort of weapon so I would say it would just need to touch even tho both instances of sealing were through piercing. The only way I see Itachi winning is whilst Third is piercing Susanoo from the back Itachi drops a smoke bomb Third backs away Itachi appears right in front of him Third cuts it in half its a crow clone and in the disorientation of the crows of which many have fallen to the real Itachi appears and Tsukuyomi...Fin. But there are problems with this scenario as you might draw and in the end I still think Third wins (Mainly because I think hell stab would destroy Susanoo not giving Itachi time to smoke ball it up).

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    • @Ishi208

      Actually the TB is described as sealing things it pierces only, if it cannot pierce the 3rd then it cannot seal him.

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    • QuakingStar wrote: No he isn't, Itachi only needs a split second to catch him in it.. he only needs to halt him for that long to get him.

      Itachi can't catch someone in a genjutsu if the person is faster than he can react to. The Third is clearly faster than him and can easily speed blitz Itachi before he realizes that there's a gaping hole in his abdomen

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    • Ninja Of War wrote: @Ishi208

      Actually the TB is described as sealing things it pierces only, if it cannot pierce the 3rd then it cannot seal him.

      You're right it does have to pierce

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    • I can almost bet this was set up in Itachi's favor...

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    • Princeharris1993 wrote: I can almost bet this was set up in Itachi's favor...

      When you look at Itachi's arsenal and what's been shown and said about him, it's extremely hard to set his limits as to who he can and cannot beat. That's why Itachi debates are always so iffy.

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    • Itachi should be as fast as him or slightly slower since he kept up with Chakra mode Naruto .All he'd need is eye contact or totsuka blade to either trap him in an illusion or seal him.And his Edo body should be able to whitstand his physical blows.

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    • ^ Except this isn't Edo Itachi we're talking about. This Itachi is alive.

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    • ^ Technically, yes. However Edo Tensei has two advantages: infinite Chakra and regeneration. So while alive Itachi may have full strength, the Edo Itachi can use MS techniques more freely and his wounds will heal. And since we're talking about alive Itachi, that Itachi cannot take physical attacks from Third Raikage carelessly.

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    • Totsuka Blade is out of the question, as if it can't pierce him, it can't seal him. If Slow Sasuke could outrun Amaterasu bursts from Itachi, then so can he. The Yata Mirror won't provide all around, full body protection, and once the Third Raikage gets behind him, its over. I'm very confident that his lightning attack can slice through Susanoo's defense.

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    • Movement speed isnt eveything in a fight. When raikage blitzes he becomes tunnel vision and can't easily change direction. In that moment of time, he is vulnerable. Lol at totuskablade being out of the question when there is no evidence the totuska blade cant pierce the raiton armor. Even then, an amaterasu to the face is more than sufficient. Sasuke himslef said itachi was on a higher level than him, so no not comparable. I like how everyone assumes itachi will be standing like a lifeless scarecrow when he plenty of options to counter raikage's blitz. On chapter 555 pages 5-6 is a good example of why blitzing can easily back fire. You really think an S rank akatsuki, someome who had the wisdom of a hokage at age 7, anbu black ops captain st age 13 cant deal with a simple speed blitz? In fact , most kages in the series can deal with a speed blitz. Riakage will blitz himself into an exploding shadow clone, be disoriented, and from there he is dead since he was stupid enough to make that decision as his opening move.

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    • MlGshinobi wrote: Movement speed isnt eveything in a fight. When raikage blitzes he becomes tunnel vision and can't easily change direction. In that moment of time, he is vulnerable. Lol at totuskablade being out of the question when there is no evidence the totuska blade cant pierce the raiton armor. Even then, an amaterasu to the face is more than sufficient. Sasuke himslef said itachi was on a higher level than him, so no not comparable. I like how everyone assumes itachi will be standing like a lifeless scarecrow when he plenty of options to counter raikage's blitz. On chapter 555 pages 5-6 is a good example of why blitzing can easily back fire. You really think an S rank akatsuki, someome who had the wisdom of a hokage at age 7, anbu black ops captain st age 13 cant deal with a simple speed blitz? In fact , most kages in the series can deal with a speed blitz. Riakage will blitz himself into an exploding shadow clone, be disoriented, and from there he is dead since he was stupid enough to make that decision as his opening move.

      Oh my god. This was actually hilarious to read man, seriously. Do you honestly think that an exploding clone can do anything to the Sandaime's Lightning Armor? XD That shit took on a KCM enhanced Futon:Rasenshuriken head on and the man walked away with a few friction burns from the wind speed. If an S-Rank attack with an elemental advantage could barely do anything to this guy, what hope does Itachi have of scratching him with anything other than an armored Susanoo? And that is only if Itachi is fast enough to hit him, which he isn't since in terms of speed

      Edo 3rd Raikage > KCM Naruto >= Edo Itachi

      Not to mention the Sandaime is just as strong as Gyuki, so unless you are saying that Itachi can beat the Hachibi on his own then he has no way of feasibly winning more times than he loses. Aka Raikage ROFLstomps Itachi.

      P.S. I hope by wisdom of a hokage at age 7 you mean he thinks like a Hokage and not that he is as smart as one because a lot of people seem to believe wisdom = intelligence

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    • MlGshinobi wrote: Movement speed isnt eveything in a fight. When raikage blitzes he becomes tunnel vision and can't easily change direction. In that moment of time, he is vulnerable. Lol at totuskablade being out of the question when there is no evidence the totuska blade cant pierce the raiton armor. Even then, an amaterasu to the face is more than sufficient. Sasuke himslef said itachi was on a higher level than him, so no not comparable. I like how everyone assumes itachi will be standing like a lifeless scarecrow when he plenty of options to counter raikage's blitz. On chapter 555 pages 5-6 is a good example of why blitzing can easily back fire. You really think an S rank akatsuki, someome who had the wisdom of a hokage at age 7, anbu black ops captain st age 13 cant deal with a simple speed blitz? In fact , most kages in the series can deal with a speed blitz. Riakage will blitz himself into an exploding shadow clone, be disoriented, and from there he is dead since he was stupid enough to make that decision as his opening move.

      Your whole blitzing doesn't work idea is moot when talking about Raikages they are allowed to be reckless. Who said he has tunnel vision when he attacks? He's shown great agility and even the Fourth Raikage could change his direction of attack in an instant. You are right to say there is no evidence stating TB can't penetrate Raikages shield. Your reference is a good one but Raikage was already disorientated by the rubble and he was an ET so he wasn't aloud to think for himself. Itachi's backstory is irrelevant. I get you're trying to use an Explosive clone to cause confusion even though it won't hurt Third but is Itachi fast enough to do that?? If Third doesn't know who Itachi is at the moment of the fight and Third underestimates him, Itachi could win. For example, like how Fourth and Sasuke at first contact just ran at each other. Fourth didn't blitz him like he did when dodging Amaterasu but if Itachi and Third run at each other and just taijutsu it up Itachi could make a clone with his invisible hand seals summon some crows then like a said before fall to the disorientation of the crows of which many have fallen to, the real Itachi appears, Tsukuyomi...Fin. But I like many people are taking it as "fight to the death" or "go all out" kind of battle so there is no reason for Third to hold back.

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    • AnyonymousBlank, I never said the exploding shadow clone would do anything to the raiton armor, so joke is on you. The smoke cloud will disorient him because he still ran into an explosion at top speed and the debris wil temporarily blind him. In that moment he will be distracted, and then tsyukyomi or amaterasu is gg. Secondly for all we know he only survived the rasenshuriken due to edo tensei, and thirdly , you clearly dont understand how rasenshuriken works. Once it detonates, it becomes a flurry of microscopic wind blade piercing attacks , essentially a barrage of bullets that attack you on the cellular level. The blades clearly didnt damage him fully because he was still armored. If rasenshuriken functioned like a bazuka rather than a barrage of bullets, raikage would have been obliterated most likely. I never said wisdom equals intelligence, but joke is on you because itachi has both. What evidence do you even have that the third raikage is even faster than 4th raikage, who admitted naruto was faster than him. And the battle naruto had with 3rd raikage showed naruto to be faster if you ask me. All we know is the third raikage is stronger than his son, not necessarily faster. @ishi, the way you ignore facts is pretty funny. If raikage is allowed to be reckless, why did Bee need to save him after he was punished for his blitzing fail? If raikage is allowed to be reckless, why was sasuke still able to react to his blitz , and why did raikage need to slow down before he hits him? Raikage not being able to think for himself is irrelevant because even if he could think for himself, his blitz still would have failed.

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    • MlGshinobi wrote: AnyonymousBlank, I never said the exploding shadow clone would do anything to the raiton armor, so joke is on you. The smoke cloud will disorient him because he still ran into an explosion at top speed and the debris wil temporarily blind him. In that moment he will be distracted, and then tsyukyomi or amaterasu is gg. Secondly for all we know he only survived the rasenshuriken due to edo tensei, and thirdly , you clearly dont understand how rasenshuriken works. Once it detonates, it becomes a flurry of microscopic wind blade piercing attacks , essentially a barrage of bullets that attack you on the cellular level. The blades clearly didnt damage him fully because he was still armored. If rasenshuriken functioned like a bazuka rather than a barrage of bullets, raikage would have been obliterated most likely. I never said wisdom equals intelligence, but joke is on you because itachi has both. What evidence do you even have that the third raikage is even faster than 4th raikage, who admitted naruto was faster than him. And the battle naruto had with 3rd raikage showed naruto to be faster if you ask me. All we know is the third raikage is stronger than his son, not necessarily faster. @ishi, the way you ignore facts is pretty funny. If raikage is allowed to be reckless, why did Bee need to save him after he was punished for his blitzing fail? If raikage is allowed to be reckless, why was sasuke still able to react to his blitz , and why did raikage need to slow down before he hits him? Raikage not being able to think for himself is irrelevant because even if he could think for himself, his blitz still would have failed.

      What was Minato going to do to Raikage if bee wasn't there?? Silly me I guess I'm just underestimating the sharpness of Minato's KUNAI. How can 4th not think for himself when he attacked Minato whilst looking at the Kunais Minato had placed? (Please read everything I say as I have mentioned this before but I guess you just ignore facts. One might even say the way you ignore facts is pretty funny) A slowing down when he's about to attack is moot and inconsistent. It makes every situation in every fight "couterattack-able". "Blitzing" is just really fast attacks. The only time they're ever slowed down is when its for the reader eye. It's inconsistent since things like A dodging Amaterasu then it appearing faster on Sasuke's Susanoo than A's blitz occur. Also If Bee's save was so crucial, YOU are saying that Bee is faster than Minato since Minato didn't get a chance to drive his toothpick into A before Bee's tail intercepted the attack AND Itachi magically has Sage mode since his reflexes to you are so amazing.

      Raikage's and Minato are frightening because of their speed. Why do you think Shinobi were given "flee-on-sight orders" upon seeing Minato? You think the Stone Shinobi in Ch240 should've been able to react to Minato? In the same chapter is a example of the delusional mindset you keep sticking to and what I've been trying to explain this whole time. Kakashi tries to blitz and fails. But can he be allowed to?? No. Because he's a cocky summabitch who thought he was untouchable unlike the Raikage's who are very close to.

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    • Thats how I know you are ignoring facts. I never said minato would have killed raikage with the kunai, but its an exmaple of how blitzing can fail. If you cant see how it did, then you are the delusional one. Bee saved him because he knew that raikage was potenitally in danger.Raikage then exclaimed SORRY BEE! You guys really dont pay attention to personality either, the only reason he even blitzed minato and took that risk was because of ego. His title of speed was being challenged by the so called yellow flash. Yet when raikage first fought sasuke, he didnt blitz at top speed he tanked chidori and then went for liger bomb. A slowed down because of the amaterasu shield put up. As crappy as sasuke is, even he was able to slow down the raikage for a brief second and made him hesitate. The only reason kakashi and sasuke are able to blitz effectively with chidori is because of the sharingan. I showed you another example of raikage blitzing fail during the war arc and you ignored it because it solos your argument.

      Like I said , reflex speed isnt the same thing as movement/ foot speed. Bee reacted to minato pull ing out his kunai to stab him. Two different things. The raikages are far from untouchable, area of effect attacks still exist. They are fast on foot. Minato has never blitzed any one using tunnel vision speed, because even he is smart enough not to do that. Look at his fight with kid obito. He uses teleportation when he blitzes which is teleporation rather than blitzing, so its nowhere near as risky as raikage blitzing.

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    • "Reflex isn't the same as movement speed" Well if Bee reacted to Minato and moved to defend himself/his brother, you're saying Bee is faster either way lol.

      Also I don't understand your argument about the Rasenshuriken. yes, it's a bunch of microscopic blades. But it still clearly shreds things when it was complete with Sage Mode or Kurama, just ask the Pains he destroyed with it. And it's probably just as powerful as bomb, considering all the damage it did when it was incomplete against Kakuzu. (Giant crater and all).

      Also, we know it wasn't because he was an Edo because he didn't take any time to regenerate.

      And I believe you are correct about 3rd being slower than 4th. But 3rd was still about as fast as KCM so it's not too much of a difference.

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    • There is also no evidence that the Totsuka blade will work on the Third.

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    • If the blade pierced his hair, i guess that would seal him.

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    • Or would it only seal his hair? making him bald and enraging him further, giving him the win.

      Lol in all seriousness, I have no idea what would happen if it only pierced his hair. I feel like it could go either way

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    • AsianReaper wrote: "Reflex isn't the same as movement speed" Well if Bee reacted to Minato and moved to defend himself/his brother, you're saying Bee is faster either way lol.

      Also I don't understand your argument about the Rasenshuriken. yes, it's a bunch of microscopic blades. But it still clearly shreds things when it was complete with Sage Mode or Kurama, just ask the Pains he destroyed with it. And it's probably just as powerful as bomb, considering all the damage it did when it was incomplete against Kakuzu. (Giant crater and all).

      Also, we know it wasn't because he was an Edo because he didn't take any time to regenerate.

      And I believe you are correct about 3rd being slower than 4th. But 3rd was still about as fast as KCM so it's not too much of a difference.

      There are different types of speed. There is reflex speed, movement speed/footspeed , hand seal speed, etc and none of them necessarily trump the other.First of all, we dont know when killer bee began forming his tentacle to protect Ayy, and minato was on raikage's back , so he wasnt moving using his foot speed. Thats like saying Gaaras sand is faster then V2 raikage in a movement speed race just because the sand intercepted his kick when he was falling at the speed induced by gravity versus sasuke. Itachi susanoo can form in under a second due to his reflexes, does that automatically mean he is faster than V2 raikage in a foot race? Absolutely not. The third raikage's right hand man was able to put naruto in a rubber ball before the third raikage was able to punch him, under that logic he is also faster than the third raikage on foot to when he clearly isnt.

      All in all, all of this is completely irrelevant to my point. The point is blitzing isnt the perfect strategy these people make it out to be. Blitzing can fail/back fire in mutlipe scenarios. Its absolutely absurd that people think third raikage is killing itachi with one blitz, or any half decent character with a name for that matter. Movement speed isnt the sole determiner of a fight. Under that logic the 4th raikage should have been able to kill madara easily just because he is faster.

      Like I said , rasenshuriken is like a barrage of wind bullets and its simple physics. When it detonated it engulfed the area around raiksge in a huge dome. Pressure =Force divided by area. All the invidiual blades are striking at the large area around raikage as well as over his armor and across the entire body Each blade wasnt able to pierce his body effectively since he is still wearing armor. Rasenshuriken disentegrated The Human path easily because he was just flesh and clothes, whereas Raikage is still wearing chakra armor. The only reason the raikage lost to his own spear is because again, pressure equals force over area. His finger assault has massive force all applied to one small area on his body where his scar was , so maximum damage was done. Even then, its perfectly possible the third raikage survived rasenshuriken only because of edo tensi and the sealing corps were a bit slower to seal him that first time. My main point here is that there is no evidence the totsuka blade cant or can pierce his raiton armor.

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    • What physics are you arguing? The blades are attacking on a cellular level, so the surface area is MUCH smaller, and still have a lot of force. That's like saying that a stick would do more piercing damage than a knife.

      Aaand no. It was obvious that the Raikage didn't reform, so it's obvious that he wasn't damaged by the attack.

      Also, Bee had to react to Minato, yeah? So he obviously formed it when he saw that his brother was in danger. He wouldn't move before, lest he get in his brother's way.

      And no, Gaara wouldn't be faster. Because Gaara doesn't really move in fights. His sand's speed was apparently fast enough to intercept him though.

      Also Mr. Rubber was much closer to Naruto, so obviously he has more time to perform his technique than the Third has time to get to Naruto. So that's not a very good argument either.

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    • You already proved my point, speed isnt everything because there is still distance and reflex to account for. I never said mr rubber is faster than the raikage, yet he reacted to his blitz. That proves speed doesnt automatically mean everything in a fight. You clearly didnt read my previous comments properly. And like I said, proving my point, gaara isnt as fast as the raikage but his sand has good speed feats. And no sand was only faster becsuse raikage, speed was induced by gravity. You really think V2 falling speed from that height equals his running speed? If you think so, then I dont know what to say. Again, the blades still have to penetrate through raiton armor first, and the blades are hitting him all over his body, not just one particular point, so the pressure is still smaller than it would be if it was a focused attack.i already know the pressure is maxmized for each individual wind blade, but it isnt maximuzed for the entire attack. If all the wind blades were all justfocused at his heart then the pressure is increased ten fold. It isnt obvious at all because like I said his armor was gone and he had scratches on his body and he was also temporarily knocked out, he could have been saved by edo tensi.

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    • I'm saying you gave bad analogies to my argument. They didn't fit well to what I was saying in the first place with Bee. Bee obviously had to move to save himself/his brother. So that includes his movements and his reflexes.

      Also... your Rasenshuriken argument. It doesn't really matter that the blades hit him all over, each still has an edge that is sharper than a cell. Are you saying a bunch of knives thrown at a target has less piercing damage than a finger just because the finger's energy's focused on one point? Of course not. So...

      Still think Third Raikage would win in any case.

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    • Because what you were arguing has no relevance to what I said , and in fact I dont even know what we are debating in the first place. My argument was that speed blitzing isnt guaranteed to work, so I dont even know where this whole killer bee thing came from. The tentacle saved Ayy , but that doesnt mean the tenetacle itself is faster than minato in a foot race. Like I said minato was stationary on Ays back , he was going to stab the raikage wnd bee tentacle stopped it in time. All my analogies were fine.

      No it just means the knives should have been directed at one area. The more piercing attacks you have in one spot the higher the pressure. Each knife is being thrown at a different portion of the ration armor, which you seem to be forgetting. The piercing attacks are hitting his armor before they actually get to his cells. What is more effective on a tank ( raiton armor) a barrage of microscopic knives spread across his body , or a bazooka ( one finger assault) focused on area ?. The analogy stands.

      There is a way the raikage can potentially win, but if he opens with a head on blitz he will die prettty quickly.

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      • rubs forehead* Okay. You argued that Bee only reacted fast enough to save Ay. When he obviously had to move to save him too. Idk what you're saying.

      If the knives are microscopic and hitting with the power of a Rasengan behind it, a tank would definitely be shredded. I'm not forgetting each knife is hitting a different area. I'm saying based on the physics you keep arguing, each one of those knives would have more cutting power than the Third's finger. Like you said, the less surface area, the more piercing power. So each blade would have insane cutting power, because each point of impact is so small.

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    • First of all, when I said bee reacted I was talking about when killer bee pulled out his knife when minsto was going to stab him with the kunai. Thats completely different. Even in the scenario with Ayy, bee's tentacle stopped a minato who wasn't using his feet . He was on top of Raikages back, its not hard to understand that the tentacle was faster than minato's ability to stab, because its clear bee formed the tenacle when minato teleported on to Raikages back. Your basically now saying itachi is faster than the raikage in a foot race because he can form susanoo in less than a second. Stop comparing different types of speed . Itachi has faster hand seal speed than most people but that doesnt necessarily mean he is faster than you in a foot race.

      My point with the rasenshuriken is that clearly it was less effective than the finger asssult, or otherwise naruto wouldnt have needed to resort to make the raikage hit himself. You keep taking about the pressure of each individual blade, which yes their indiviudal pressures are very high. But their combined pressures are lower overall than the one finger assault because the blades arent all being fired at a single point. All the energy of the finger assault is focused on raikages right chest, so the force isnt as distributed. That means the overall pressure is higher. Each blade from the rasenshuriken failed to properly pierce through the raiton armor on various parts of the body because the blades arent all focused on one spot.The blades are hitting the raiton armor onhis hair, his chest, his legs, etc, so the pressure is still lower because the finger assault is only hitting one small area on his body.

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    • Princeharris1993 wrote: Totsuka Blade is out of the question, as if it can't pierce him, it can't seal him. If Slow Sasuke could outrun Amaterasu bursts from Itachi, then so can he. The Yata Mirror won't provide all around, full body protection, and once the Third Raikage gets behind him, its over. I'm very confident that his lightning attack can slice through Susanoo's defense.

      Your full confidence don't mean jack sh1t. you're telling me stage 1 susanoo was able to tank a direct blow from an unavoidable kirin attack but raikage's good enough to break through full armored susanoo? get out of here with that nonsense. just because he was able to slice off some bijuu tail don't mean he can solo that susanoo. hell, even sasuke's chidori spear slice through the tails like butter. also it's pretty folly to compare each susanoo, it's obvious each one has different durability stats in each form.

      as for totsuka blade, manga and databook directly states it could pierce any. so, yes that is out of the question nor can it be debated.

      as for how itachi will beat kage, it's simple. 1. assuming the kage isn't already in the gen and didn't realize it. (sensory is useless against itachi gen, confirmed by sensory division).

      2. itachi will simply just bait out the kage, with shadow clones, crow clones etc. while protecting himself with susanoo. at some point the kage will end looking at itachi's eyes. also. just because finger gen that itachi placed on naruto isn't as op as his tsukuyomi doesn't mean the kage can break out of it in time. naruto even had a time-skip training just to break gen and still failed to do so.

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    • Yea exactly, and if the raikage opens with a blitz he is gonna die pretty quickly. It only takes one hand sign for itachi to form an exploding shadow clone. Which will detonate a blitzing raikage. It wont kill him but in that disorientation amateradu and tsyukyomi end him, totuska blade not needed. If raikage start s smart and doesn't blitz immediately, his chances of winning go up because he indeed can dodge most of itachis non area of effect attacks. The finger assault did show the impressive feat of piercing throhgh rubber which does have electrical resistance, but rubber <<<< then susanoo. It did pierce his raiton armor too, but unless you guys think raiton armor> susanoo I dont see how we can know if it can pierce through susanoo completely. I think he can to an extent though. But even if he does to a degree he is now within range of itachis genjutsu and such. Raikage does have superior stamina by far, but with the raikage fighting style requiring close quarters combat he is more likely to be disoriented in some form when he gets close by itachi'sattack overlays. However there is the black lightning to consider as well

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    • I believe we are all forgetting that the Third Raikage has Hell Stab. Which is significantly stronger than what the Fourth Raikage used against Sasuke. Remember, he bulldozed his way through several reinforced defenses with amount of effort necessary to snap a toothpick. Note that this was at four-finger nukite level. We aren't even talking about three, two and one. I would estimate that his one-finger nukite is capable of bypassing a Susanoo's defenses. Let's also note that Itachi's stamina is vastly inferior to the Third's. So the longer this battle is lasts, the more likely A the Third will win.

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    • wow so everyone is really underestimating itachi here?'@greatAchulus' I hope you do remember sasuke fought all five and not only that 4Th lost his arm(where as sasuke didn't suffer any major problem other than exhaustion),if itachi burns his Susanoo like sasuke did all that blitzing tactic will fail and cause the 3rd raikhage to lose his arms just like 4th did. also there can be doubt about Susanoo's defense against hell stab but itachi can(might) survive with PS but if the raikage touches it he is a goner for sure!

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    • Namikazenaruto9 wrote: wow so everyone is really underestimating itachi here?'@greatAchulus' I hope you do remember sasuke fought all five and not only that 4Th lost his arm(where as sasuke didn't suffer any major problem other than exhaustion),if itachi burns his Susanoo like sasuke did all that blitzing tactic will fail and cause the 3rd raikhage to lose his arms just like 4th did. also there can be doubt about Susanoo's defense against hell stab but itachi can(might) survive with PS but if the raikage touches it he is a goner for sure!

      Sasuke fought the five kage and barely survived. The Fourth Raikage alone roughed him up a lot, luckily for him he had the Susanoo to protect him, and even that soon began to fail him. Also, we have no proof Itachi can manipulate flames like Sasuke can, that it just fan ideas. Itachi doesn't have PS so what are you guys getting at here.

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    • @Namikazenaruto9 Except Itachi doesn't have Kagutsuchi, meaning he can't shape manipulate Amaterasu.

      Also, as Rachin said, Itachi doesn't have Complete Body Susanoo.

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    • Sasuke actually got his ass handed to him by the kage in the summit arc, and would have lost to each of them if not for third party intervention.

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    • Ninja Of War wrote: Sasuke actually got his ass handed to him by the kage in the summit arc, and would have lost to each of them if not for third party intervention.

      Sasuke at that time was much stronger than Gaara, he only had trouble with the mizukage because of his weakened state and Ohnoki caught him off guard. so no the only kage at the time that was a match for Sasuke one on one was the Raikage and maybe Danzo.

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    • @Uchiha How was Sasuke "much stronger" than Gaara at that time? And it doesn't matter if Sasuke was in weakened state when he fought the other kages, because like we are saying he just barely made it passed the Raikage and it all went downhill after that for him. So while he did decent considering who hw was up against, he in no had any chance of winning even with Jugo and Suigetsu helping.

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    • Rachin123 wrote: @Uchiha How was Sasuke "much stronger" than Gaara at that time? And it doesn't matter if Sasuke was in weakened state when he fought the other kages, because like we are saying he just barely made it passed the Raikage and it all went downhill after that for him. So while he did decent considering who hw was up against, he in no had any chance of winning even with Jugo and Suigetsu helping.

      Gaara's sand couldn't even scratch Sasuke's susanoo which at the time was only in it's skeletal state, Sasuke's many times faster than Gaara, Sasuke's lightning style breaks through Gaara's sand like nothing, need I go on.

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    • First off that wasn't even Gaara's strongest sand attack. And it's obvious that Sasuke is way faster than Gaara, its been established way back in Part I. But Gaara's sand had the speed to block Amaterasu that it super fast itself so. I'll give you the fact that Sasuke using his lightning attacks will give him a advantage but even that was proven not to mean victory.

      But this isn't about Gaara. This is about Itachi who doesn't have anything to hurt the Raikage. Amaterasu is useless as he can dodge it. The Fourth Raikage broke Sasuke's Susanoo on several occasions (although only the skeleton state, it is still an impressive feat) and with the 3rd Raikage being physically stronger than his son, than he most likely can do some damage to Itachi's Susanoo too. I believe the 3rd Raikage will be the winner with mid to high difficulty. Unless Itachi uses Izanami he wins but I that's just a cheap copout

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    • @Rachin123 I doubt Izanami will even work on the Third Raikage. The dude fought 30+ elite shinobis for days so that his men can escape. If that's not being true to oneself, then I don't know what is

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    • Actually, Itachi has more then one Genjutsu he can use without Eye Contact. He has the Demonic Illusions for example which are stated to be able to be used without eye contact. I was gonna come in this debate and yell "STOP WITH THE ITACHI FIGHTS!" but I actually like this one, because Itachi actually has little to no Chance in winning this. The only way he could win, is if he can catch him in Genjutsu or hit him that that Totsuka (which is possible from a Susanoo's power.) however its unlikely Itachi can even keep up to do that. Third is wayyyy too fast. Then again, Naruto in just Sage was able to dodge him, Maybe Itachi can since he fought Chakra Cloak Naruto. However, I wanna say Narutos feat was just pure Plot Armor. The fight comes down to this, if Raikage hits him, it's over, if Itachi hits him with Genjutsu or Tot, its /possible/ that its over. Raikage is more likely to win.

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    • ^Itachi fought Naruto in KCM for like 5 seconds and he was the one to attack, Naruto just blocked. No speed feats from that battle. I really don't know what people reading or watching. Naruto reacted to the Third's attack but that's reaction speed not general speed, and that's thanks to SM. Itachi could use the Ephemeral but he hardly uses that for a reason. As for the Shackles genjutsu. We have no solid proof that it doesn't require eye contact. For all we know, Itachi put Orochimaru in genjutsu before he attacked him with eye contact.

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    • Sage mode does give you speed boost just see Sage kabuto x itachi/sasuke fight.

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    • I'm not denying it gives you a speed boost, and I watched the fight, and it was mostly reaction speed Kabuto showed because of his danger perception. Either way Itachi doesn't have speed or reaction speed on these guys par so it really doesn't matter here.

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    • @Rachin look at every Demonic Illusion in Itachis arsenal, they all state it doesn't require eye contact. Not just that one.

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    • Well lets see Shishi

      1. Demonic Illusion Crows: The only one I believe will work well but Itachi won't be able to harm him and using the Totsuka Blade is a last resort. I'm sure the 3rd Raikage would gave already figured out it was a genjutsu and break or he might get broken out of it by Itachi's jutsus. Even if Itachi's attacks does nothing to the Raikage but knock him to the floor, that can get him out.

      2. Demonic Illusion Heaven and Earth Change: A jutsu that can only be used when genjutsu is used on him so it's useless here.

      3. Demonic Illusion Shackling Stakes Technique: Highly doubt this will work when Itachi will not be abke to catch the 3rd Raikage with eye contact with his speed.

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    • well itachi doesn't need to catch him, as far as I remember that raikage isn't very intelligent, if he burns his Susanoo armor from outside with amaterasu and definitely this guy would go for kill he will surely die from the burns caused by Amaterasu also once he starts burning he won't move because of pain than he can start using genjutsu after extinguishing the flames. also he can burn nearby area completely with Amaterasu and wait for the raikage(in Susanoo) to attack once he comes he can just catch that guy before/immediate after the attack and throw him there. either way raikage would lose

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    • @Namikaze Says what proof. The Third Raikage hasn't shown to be unintelligent. He's not like his son who is pretty reckless. Once again Itachi doesn't have have Kagutsuchi so no cladding his Susanoo with Amaterasu. Also, when the 3rd Raikage's arm was burned it did no damage immediately, ge didn't even feel it but knew that keeping it on will mean spreading and eventual pain so he chopped it off and that didn't even harm him. So the Amaterasu even if it somehow hit the 3rd Raikage, it isn't harming him any time soon with his durability. Also, Itachi would want to extinguish Amaterasu for his own safety as the 3rd Raikage can cause his Susanoo to catch ablaze or himself.

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    • So let me get this straight. Is the third raikage suddenly this perfectly infallible person because he can't be touched due to his " overwhelming speed" and the the fact thathe has his " invincible shield". So he can dodge every and any attack and also block any and every attack too for eternity?Because I'm just gonna point that by this logic, he is invincible against any opponent. First off, there isn't even much evidence he is as fast as his son. The only people he blitzed successfully were fodder, and anyone can blitz those. The third raikage was known in particular for his shield and spear, not for immense speed. His son never attribute d him as the fastest one around. The third raikage still is extremely fast of course, but his speed is being overhyped. Secondly, I knew you guys would reference him making amaterasu a non factor in a situation where his son saw the technique coming. Sasuke was dumb enough to open with amaterasu knowing the raikage was looking right in his eyes and it was obvious it was coming. When you are facing a speedy opponent, the point is to either use an area of effect attack or hit him with an attack he doesn't see coming. Sasuke didnt even make a distraction, he just assumed he was gonna solo a kage level shinobi with one obvious attack. First of all, itachi doesn't use amaterasu as his go to technique, and his fighting style is different and more subtle. He isn't gonna use amaterasu in a situation when he knows the raikage sees it coming and will casually dodge. Like I said, since some of you insist he will open with a blitz, the fight ends pretty quickly as he blitzes top speed into great clone explosion, in which he becomes disoriented. And with that distraction, he will be nice and still for an amaterasu to the face /head, which the raiton armor was proven not to protect against. He will suffer from burning eyes, head, throat, etc, so he won't be fighting anymore. And Secondly, even when blitzing at top speed, the 4th raikage slowed down for a moment when sasuke threatened him with a dangerous attack. And in that moment, he isn't moving at blinding speed, and can be caught by any genjutsu of itachi's choice. Itachi doesnt use ephemeral " often" because he has a wide variety of genjustu to choose from. The only fights we have seen itachi go all out in he used regular genjustu or tsyukyomi because that sufficed for the situation. So itachi just needs to threaten raikage with a dangerous attack to make him hesitate, and then from there it's over.

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    • @MIGshinobi The 3rd won't get hurt by the Clone Great Explosion. If he can tank a Rasenshuriken, which already powerful on its on and being his nature weakness than, an explosion that was so close to Itachi and the Konoha-nin and yet weren't pushed back by the explosion or hurt by the sound of the boom, it is not that strong. Also, while it isn't said, it is hinted that the 4th is faster than the 3rd but the fact is the 3rd was was able to dodge attacks of great speed at point-blank range, that is fact. If anybody's speed is overhyped, it's Itachi. Itachi is not faster than the 3rd that is a fact nor is he on his level of speed. Itachi is fast though and distance will be Itachi's best option. And using Amaterasu to face, classic never done it, why do it now move. The only option for Itachi is genjutsu and the eye contact will be difficult for him to achieve so his only best one will be Ephemeral or Demonic Illusions Crows Technique, mind you these are average at best genjutsus, and what will Itachi do from there, because A's armor will still be on. And time is of the esscence. Let me guess, Amaterasu, sure that'd work but lets say A figures the genjutsu out and breaks it and attacks Itachi clad in black flames which won't work well in Itachi's favor. It won't be easy to make a Guy who took on the 8-Tails and 1000 shinobi hesitate. The odds roll more in A's favor than Itachi sorry to say. If you don't see that than well farewell to you sir.

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    • See I never said great explosion would hurt him, so first misconception. I said it would disorient him. I don't care how strong his armor he is still hit with an explosion at point blank range right in his face. He will be blinded by the debris and he no longer knows where itachi is and his mind will be off center. Secondly, kakashi ran off with kurenai and got a head start, and it's also important to note the explosion happened in water, meaning most of the energy was used to create the tidal wave and less to actually blow kakashi to bits. Even then, kakashi was visibly hurt by it and had black marks all over his back. So at minimum, it will just disorient the raikage, which all itachi needs as a distraction to land amatersau or tsyukyomi. Regarding rasenshuriken, the elemental advantage is good and all but raikage is still wearing armor and he also was incapacitated for brief moment before getting up. Im pretty sure that was because of edo tensi

      Amaterasu to the face used on gyuki by sasuke. Itachi has never used amaterasu to the face because it was never necessary. Look at his fights. In part one vs kakashi he is a pacifist and a spy for konoha, he used tsyukyomi instead of amaterasu to break kakashi's will without killing him, kakashi admits this. In his fights with deidara and orochimaru, one genjustu , his regukar sharingan one at that, was all that was necessary. In part 2 , he held back vs team chiyo, held back versus sasuke, amaterasu was useless on nagato, and he held back against kabuto too, so there is the reason he didn't use amaterasu to the face.

      I don't buy itachi's genjustu being average when he is the second best specialist in the series. The 4th raikage couldn't even break madara's genjustu and his raiton armor shut off iirc, and naruto who has massive chakra reserves couldn't break ephemeral. In addition, I haven't even accounted for susanoo yet. The 4th raikage needed two powerful hits on the lowest stage if he wanted to kill sasuke. Also, that susanoo didn't have arms. So sasuke could have have grabbed him with the sussano arm if he had it at the time when raikage hesitated, just like madara did to the raikage. And yes, the raikage who had bijuu levels of chakra hesitated to a deadly attack. The 1000 shinobi cop out doesn't sit well with me, hebi sasuke did that. And I'm sure people like hashriama tobirama, minato and even madara could do that with ease. What the third raikage did was definitely a feat, but it was more so a feat of stamina since he did it without the pill enhancer. And I'm pretty sure itachi can beat gyuki as it is a rather large target for the totsuka blade. Im sure the third raikage can do massive damage to susanoo but I highly doubt it's enough to tip the battle that much in raikage's favor.

      And yea I agree that raikage can evade attacks all day long but if he is doing that itachi has no reason to do anything. Once the third raikage takes initiative inthe fight and take s things to itachi he becomes vulnerable just like anyone else. In short, I dont like the amount of free wins that are handed to the raikage simply because of speed. We all know speed is not the most determing factor in a fight, ask rock lee after his battle with gaara.

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    • @MIGshinobi First off the explosion happened on top of water, not in water. And I don't recall any harm came to Itachi either who was a few feet from the clone. If the 3rd Raikage can not be disoriented by the explosion of the Rasenshuriken, than he ain't getting disoriented by that small ass explosion. The 3rd Raikage was not incapacitated for any moment. He got hit, the attack exploded and got right back up.

      Actually Amaterasu worked on Nagato though until he pushed the flames off and yet he didn't shoot the Amaterasu at his face but his torso. Nagato wasn't expecting the attack. What was stopping Itachi from shooting it at his face? It sure would have helped to get rid of the Rinnegan quickly.

      I never said Itachi's genjutsu is average, I said those ones specifically not requiring eye contact are because if that was the case, he would use those more often than Genjutsu: Sharingan. Please get your facts straight. Also, the 4th Raikage is not the 3rd Raikage either. Also, the 3rd Raikage's strength is way more powerful than the 4th. But while we are on the subject, the 4th Raikage was able to break the side of Sasuke's ribcage Susanoo with a simple chop. "Sasuke could've created an arm to grab the 4th Raikage", but he didn't, because he was too busy trying to find him and wincing in pain from overusing his MS. He'd most likely dodge the arm anyways like he did that lotus attack by Jūgo at point-blank range. I never said the 3rd won't get hesitated but it would be hard to given who has dealt with, facing 1000 shinobi and the 8-Tails itself.

      Itachi also doesn't have high chakra reserves like the 3rd so by your statement, A dodging "all day" is totally fine but Itachi can't go on for a day, shoot he can't go on for an hour. And I never said speed is everything, but it is here and not to mention is high durability and high chakra reserves, while Itachi isn't so lucky. Gaara also couldn't touch Lee after his weights was off so speed definitely helped there and Lee practically destroyed Gaara in gates. Do you have anything else to say on the matter?

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    • Itachi didnt get damaged maybe cause he is smart enough to stay away from the area of effect of his own technique? Maybe he used susanoo? You do realize that once the huge volume of water went up we dont see what is happening on itachi's side of the water? And yes they were stand ing on top of the water and the explosion created a large waterfall due to physics and still harmed kakashi. And like I said, the raikage is still getting disoriented because he ran into a bomb and debris will be in his face.


      Yea except nagato is an edo tensi and amaterasu was irrelevant, the eyes would just grow back just like the rest of his torso did... in fact itachi using amaterasu in that situation was plot armor for nagato, itachi could have just sealed him with totsuka blade as he knows edo tensi are immortal. In a real fight with no edo tensi and no plot induced stupidity itachi is smart enough to aim amaterasu at his opponent's face.

      The third raikage did not get right back up as the alliance joyed with Victory, then sent the sealing papers, and then he pushed it off and got back up. And that could have been due to edo tensi.

      Like I said itachi has a wide variety of genjustu to choose from. He used what was necessary for the situation and in most of his battle he wasn't even going all out, so I don't see how that's evidence of anything. None of itachi's genjustu are average as otherwise Ao wouldn't say that itachi was the only one capable of keeping people in regular genjustu outside the range of sensors. And no one has canonical ly broken any of his genjustu without help except for sasuke.

      Except sasuke could not form limbs in his susanoo during his battle with raikage. That came when he unlocked the next stage of susanoo. And no madara was able to grab raikage with his susanoo arm in close range while the raikage got distracted. And sasuke didnt need to find him because that was obvious once raikage was in close range, and sasuke was able to delay his attack. It didn't Amount to much, but if we replace sasuke with itachi in that situation then he would have just used tsyukyomi when they briefly made eye contact, which would be gg. The third raikage is stronger but there is no evidence of how well he would fair against advanced stages of susanoo. The 4th raikage broke a rib and he didn't breach susanoo , he most likely cracked it and when sasuke falls down there is no indication it was completely broken. Yea except Guy sensi had to save rock lee's life. Rock lee 's speed is more dangerous than the raikage because he actually has sharp taijutsu proficiency and can change direction easily. The third raikage travels in a straight line overextending his spear. Naruto simply side stepped and there was nothing the raikage could do and he was punished for overextending.And even Mr. Rubber effectively countered the third raikage's blitz and distracted him for a while. If he can do that so can itachi, and itachi actually has the fire power to take down the raikage to back it up. Gaara couldn't tag lee but he used his sand and his sand armor to help tank the hits even though the sand wasn't keeping up. It became a battle of endurance and lee lost, and gaara won. My point with that example is that rock lee's superior speed was moot in the end.

      I know itachi has way less stamina, but if Raikage is just playing the game of solely dodging attacks itachi can just stop attacking and let the raikage take initative. Once raikage gets in close range he isn't dodging attacks as effectively and has to deal with susanoo and itachi's other diversions. And since itachi verfiably has two one shot kill techniques in amaterasu and tsyukyomi, he only needs to land one to win, so it won't be a battle of stamina. secondly, raikage can only dodge attacks he sees coming, and he can only dodge attacks that don't have a high area of effect, I.e if there is no where to run you could have all the speed in the world but it won't matter, and he can only dodge attacks if he is physically capable of doing so. That's how naruto landed rasenshuriken on him in the first place,using misdirection and forcing raikage to get stuck in mid air. This idea that the raikage is untouchable has got to stop. And I like how you guys are assuming the raikage will open with blistering speed. His son, the only decent reference point we have for the third since we have barely seen the third in action, didn't even initially blitz sasuke at top speed. He charged with regular speed, sasuke dodged his elbow causing raikage to tank chidori, and go for liger bomb. So the idea that he is gonna be " too fast" to get caught in genjustu or get hit with other attacks at all times is also a myth.

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    • @MIGshinobi Despite the example I just gave you on the 3rd Raikage enduring a far more powerful attack, you ignore it, wow just wow. It is obvious striking speed is different than running speed. The 4th Raikage's speed of movement had shown to be far more superior than his striking speed. While the 3rd hasn't shown any real speed feats, his reaction speed is top notch. Also, you realize Naruto had Sage Mode which uped his reflexes and had Danger Perception. Itachi had the Sharingan and yet even Sasuke couldn't track the 4th Raikage until he reappeared to attack. Naruto also had a mode that gave him a boost in skills so trying to compare that Itachi is ridiculous. Nobody said Itachi wouldn't catch him in genjutsu or that he'd straight up blitz Itachi, you are just taking it that way because you are bent on Itachi winning.

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    • I didn't ignore anything. I said myself that the great clone explosion would do no damage, probably 3 times in this thread already, I will quote myself if I had to. But saying he wont be disoriented by the debris and smoke from a sudden point blank explosion at all is ridiculous. It doesn't matter that he is armored, his armor doesn't protect him from disorientation. The raikage tanked the rasenshuriken due to being armored and also edo tensi. And with rasenshuriken, it's not your standard explosion it just becomes a flurry of wind needles that surrond the victim, and even then, while raikage was caught in it he couldn't do anything to anyone until the attack was over, so that counts for something. Yea naruto had increased reflexes but that's my point I waa explaining earlier, there are different types of speed. And as you said the raikage's striking speed is a far cry from his movement speed and reflex speed and he also has a hard time changing direction when he uses his top speed. The important thing to note about the gaara vs rock lee fight is that he never outsped the sand's first defense. He was moving fast and changing direction at high speed and effectively attacking gaara from multiple directions, thinning the sand and making it hard for it to all keep up. Gaara's sand is fast enough to block amaterasu, so it's extremely fast but only if the attack is coming from one direction. Yea itachi wont be able to track raikage at top speed, but the raikage has to slow down a bit to actually attack because he is also tunnel visioned by his own speed. The raikage's have the same problem as kakashi and sasuke do with the chidori. That's why kakashi stopped using chidori after he lost his sharingan, the speed is too great for an over extending attack. Without the sharingan it's too diffcuult to tag your opponent and a miss ends being fatal potentially. That's why minato needed to save kakashi the first time he used it and told him to never use it again. My point is when I joined this discussion I see the same arguments about raikage blitzing itachi's head off before he can even activate his sharingan, and the same argument s that the raikage is untouchable and all attacks won't ever land despite the fact it's been shown with careful misdirection the raikage s can be hit. Sasuke, if he was smart, would have used a smoke bomb once he lost sight of the raikage. Then step out side of susanoo while the raikage still thinks sasuke is inside the susanoo. When raikage knocks down the susanoo he will be confused and hot headed as to where sasuke is, by then he would have gotten hit by amatersau in the head. What sasuke did was a decent move but in hidnsight it wasn't very effective because amaterasu is only a deterent, not a proper defense. The raikage was too hot headed and his arm burning wasn't gonna be enough. So sasuke would have died if gaara didn't save him. My point in this is that I actually want to see how this battle plays out without the raikage being untouchable cop out, and how effective his spear is against susanoo and whatever diversions itachi pulls.

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    • Doesn't the Lightning chakra mode make up for tunnel vision? Doesn't it speed the user's perception up to the point where there wouldn't be tunnel vision?

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    • It doesn't for both raikages. When the 4th blitzed minato the raikage could not change direction at all after he missed, prompting bee to save him. When the third blitzed mr. RUBBER, same thing he went flying with the rubber ball. And against sasuke, the 4th slowed down before closing in on his attack. That's why I said rock lee's speed is more dangerous overall because at least when he misses he easily recovers and also can attack you from multiple directions almost at once.

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    • Changing direction is one thing. I'm talking about tunnel vision in general. They don't have tunnel vision, otherwise they wouldn't use those lightning charges for the same reason Kakashi wasn't able to after he lost the Sharingan.

      Also, I don't think the Third "went flying with the rubber ball." The rubber ball was his goal, so he went after it. He didn't exactly just get thrown along with it. And Third has been shown to change direction quite well. When he broke through the Earthen walls, he quickly went between enemies, taking them down left and right. That accounts for change in direction. ANd he did it, as Naruto said, in an instant. While we know it wasn't actually just in an instance, that means he's very fast, and very good at moving between targets.

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    • @Asian I'm saying that when the raikages use their top speed they can't change direction immediately without slowing down. The third raikage blitzed those fodder at regular speed. He blitzed naruto with a punch at top speed and Mr. RUBBER tricked him. He was moving too fast and carelessly to notice that naruto wasn't in the rubber ball. If the third raikage does something similar against itachi, he is dead. The raikage s haven't killed any character with a name with one top speed blitz. If sasuke was a bit smarter, he should have used a smoke bomb like I said when the raikage blitzed him. And even then, sasuke still was able to make him hesitate before he closed in, meaning he was able to react to the blitz and potentially stop it. And when you look at the rest of the raikages' screen time, they haven't always opened with a blitz and their flight style isn't just about evading attacks all day long. Look at raikage vs killer bee, the raikage s like to get up close and personal. V1 raikage didn't even blitz sasuke at first he charged with regular speed and picked him up for liger bomb. Please consider all these facts

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    • Well, the Fourth Raikage was changing direction quite well with NTCM Naruto, and both were moving quite fast. Naruto in NTCM is just about as fast as the Fourth Raikage, while changing direction. You're telling me that Itachi is fast enough to keep up with those speeds?

      Itachi isn't nearly as fast as the Raikages. He might keep up with the Sharingan, but like you said, Sasuke only managed to dodge the Fourth when he was going at, as you say, "regular" speed. So how would he fair against the fastest punch? Or the Third's Hell Stab? If he barely dodged the Raikages at "regular" speed, a full on speed dash would barely let them defend themselves, much less give a counter attack.

      Also, let's look at it this way. If the Third Raikage blitzes, he'll be able to get in very close due to his immense speed. Itachi might manage a dodge, but if he does, I think that's all he'd manage to do. If he tried throwing a smoke bomb, the Raikage would simply keep moving through it.

      In regards to your comment about the Fourth Raikage hesitating, of course he hesitated. There were the black flames of Amaterasu in front of him. But he quickly assessed the risk vs the reward, and attacked again before Sasuke could react. He's that fast. He stopped, assessed the situation, and took action, all in the time it took Sasuke to just realize he had hesitated. It's no different than if the Fourth decided to quickly retreat; Sasuke had no opportunity for a counter attack. So the hesitation is hardly an advantage; by the time Itachi realized a Raikage hesitated, the Raikage would already be on the move again.

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    • AsianReaper wrote: Well, the Fourth Raikage was changing direction quite well with NTCM Naruto, and both were moving quite fast. Naruto in NTCM is just about as fast as the Fourth Raikage, while changing direction. You're telling me that Itachi is fast enough to keep up with those speeds?

      Itachi isn't nearly as fast as the Raikages. He might keep up with the Sharingan, but like you said, Sasuke only managed to dodge the Fourth when he was going at, as you say, "regular" speed. So how would he fair against the fastest punch? Or the Third's Hell Stab? If he barely dodged the Raikages at "regular" speed, a full on speed dash would barely let them defend themselves, much less give a counter attack.

      Also, let's look at it this way. If the Third Raikage blitzes, he'll be able to get in very close due to his immense speed. Itachi might manage a dodge, but if he does, I think that's all he'd manage to do. If he tried throwing a smoke bomb, the Raikage would simply keep moving through it.

      In regards to your comment about the Fourth Raikage hesitating, of course he hesitated. There were the black flames of Amaterasu in front of him. But he quickly assessed the risk vs the reward, and attacked again before Sasuke could react. He's that fast. He stopped, assessed the situation, and took action, all in the time it took Sasuke to just realize he had hesitated. It's no different than if the Fourth decided to quickly retreat; Sasuke had no opportunity for a counter attack. So the hesitation is hardly an advantage; by the time Itachi realized a Raikage hesitated, the Raikage would already be on the move again.

      This is the same problem in all raikage versus threads. Why do you think itachi , or anyone for that matter as this isn't just about itachi anymore, needs to beat raikage in speed in order to win? Battles aren't determined purely by speed. The 4th raikage changed direction only when he wasn't at top speed. When he blitzed naruto at his top speed naruto used his own speed to dodge yes, but raikage failed to change direction and punched straight into the wall. My point is that when the raikage s use their TOP speed there isn't changing any direction. Itachi doesnt even need to be as fast as naruto to evade that attack. He can just use a bunshin feint, substitution, genjustu, tank with susanoo, or just deceive the raikage. The 4th raikage used regular speed at first because he wasn't as hotheaded yet and was making a better decision. If he opened with his top speed blitz and missed his attack for whatever reason sasuke had the advantage. He only blitzed sasuke after dodging an attack while sasuke was focused on casting amaterasu. Sasuke dropping a smoke bomb is a better decision. Sasuke didnt react because he was confident that his amaterasu would stop the raikage from hitting him, but he clearly didn't realize the raikage is too hotheaded to care. If sasuke drops a smoke bomb, and THEN , steps outside of susanoo, the fact that raikage runs into the susanoo doesn't matter as he doesn't know where sasuke is. Then sasuke hits raikage with amaterasu while raikage is confused. It's called using a distraction and tricking your opponent. Sasuke used no deception whatsoever and that's why he lost. If the third hokage does the same thing against itachi, him running through the smoke doesn't do much for him as he lost sight of where itachi is. Looking around in the wrong direction can spell doom because the second he accidentally locks eyes with itachi he is dead, and this has been my point. It doesn't come down to a battle lf stamina when he is a close range fighter , is likely not as intelligent as itachi, and itachi has one shot kill options that aren't even projectiles. The raikage's speed is important but it isn't the end all. He has the advantage of being able to evade attacks all day long but he still has to use his speed and strength up close to do his best. And carelessly using thst speed and overextending spear can get him killed, it was shown multiple times and like I said all of raikages' top speed blitzes have failed to work on an intelligent character with a name.

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    • @MIGshinobi Yes I'm sure Sasuke would believe that using a smoke bomb would be best, but he didn't and that's that. He felt that using the black flames to cover Susanoo would the best decision. That is besides the point. Also, the 3rd Raikage isn't careless. Stop with that. He has not shown to be anything with it came personality like his son. And lets say Itachi uses a smoke bomb, he then does what? All it would obscure his vision as well. And if lets say the 3rd used his top speed then to blirz Itachi, Itachi ain't dodging it. So unless Itachi created a clone or something already, then no.

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    • My point with sasuke is that had he been replaced by a more competent shinobi who would have did did his homework on the raikage, and let's say they had been given the same abilities as sasuke just for this example,someone like shikamaru, he would have known that amaterasu is a flimsy defense. In fact, it's hardly a defense because raikage was too filled with adrenaline to notice the pain. Sasuke just assumed raikage wouldn't touch the flames, it was hardly a counter attack. People like itach and shikamaru would have used a smoke bomb in that situation to obscure the raikage's sight? How do you know what the third raikage's personaility was like, he was barely shown. And no one ever complimented his intelligence, so it's safe to assume he has has an average mind. When a character is intelligent, we get both hype and feats, and all the third raikage was known for was his brawns. The smoke screen does matter, as neither the raikage or itachi can see each other, and that scenario is worse for the raikage because once the smoke clears, accidentally making eye contact is GG. Or what, is the raikage just gonna keep aimlessly running through the smoke? And now are we saying that the raikage is gonna Lolwhat just happened blitz itachi before he can make a single hand sign? Because that's what ive seen in most raikage threads, they just blitz off their opponents head before they can blink. If the raikage isn't carless as claimed, he wont open with a top speed blitz , because not even his son did that at first against sasuke. And blitzing speed in a straight line spells disaster, Mr. Rubber proved that during the war, and he didn't need to dodge, in fact his legs didn't move an inch. He simply tricked the raikage, and that's all that's needed to counter a careless blitz. Itachi is known for having insanely fast jutsu speed according to sharingan users, and he got in a shadow clone against kurenai without anyone else noticing on chapter 141 page 15. If this is a legit fight, the raikage starts a normal distance away from itachi, and activates his raiton armor and itachi his sharingan. Itachi knows the possibility of a blitz, and does a hand sign that the sharingan cant track while the lightning fast raikage is already mid way to blitzing itachi's head off as you guys say, so he isn't changing direction as runs right into a freshly spawned shadow clone that formed in between him and the real itachi at lightning speed, right into an explosion. He is disoriented and blinded by the debris and smoke, but of course he doesn't have any physical damage thanks to his OPraiton armor. The smoke begins to clear at a moderate pace while the real itachi assumes a more tactical position. The raikage isn't a sensor type so he has no clue where itachi is as the smoke finally is almost gone. So now what? Is he gonna turn around with his eyes closed ? Is he gonna keep them open , look around, risk getting hit with a match ending tsyukyomi when he doesn't know itachi's exact position yet? Is he now contemplating what a poor decision it was to open with a top speed blitz? All these questions are for you guys to answer. Or are you gonna say that this was an unsatisfactory match start, and itachi is just gonna stand still and do nothing after the raikage activates his armor and starts his undodgeable blitz?

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    • @MIGshinobi So in the history of Itachi, he felt that he didn't need to use a smoke bomb but will now all of a sudden. Nice. Also, though it was little seen from the 3rd, we can gather from what we saw that he isn't one to rush into a situation so quickly and arrogantly. And there would be slight possibility that in the smoke that A would make eye contact when it clears but it is also possible that A can end up behind Itachi and ram him. Also, Dodai already planned the jutsu before A attacked, and with the rubber ball trick, he didn't notice because the rubber ball was big and didn't he couldn't see beyond it, just assumed it was used for protection. If Itachi could come up with something like that fine but Itachi has nothing to hurt the 3rd Raikage. That is the problem. Also, nobody in this thread ever said the Raikage is gonna blitz Itachi's head off. Nor did anyone say Itachi was just gonna stand there ready to get pummeled. I think you are taking this to the head. Honestly, I'm sick of repeating myself. If you want to believe Itachi wins, be my guest.

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    • Like I said before which battle has itachi been in that wasn't handled by a genjustu, and which battle has he been 100 percent serious in that we have seen on panel? Smoke bombs are standard ninja kit, along with kunai shuriken s, and paper bombs. Madara carries smoke bombs, shikamaru, jiraiya, naruto, hell even kiba has used smoke bombs. Just because you carry a ninja tool doesn't mean it's useful in every situation. Itachi soloed deida ra with one genjustu, soloed orochimaru with one genjustu, after a small ninjutsu skirmish that kakashi admitted was itachi's warm up, and he used an exploding shadow clone that would have created smoke if they were on land, so there is your " smoke bomb" . In part 2, again holding back in a 4 on 1 fight vs team chiyo while using a 30 percent clone. Sasuke fight, holding back the whole time while sick and he used his shadow clone to help catch sasuke in tsyukyomi, smoke screen not even needed. And no , almost every single person in this thread has said itach simply gets blitzed, I'll start quoting people. Tsyukyomi and amaterasu both can one shot the raikage, so what do you mean he has nothing to harm the raikage?

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    • ^I don't think Itachi would use a smoke bomb, since it would hinder his Sharingan. Itachi, like all Uchiha, rely on their Sharingan as their main ability, he wouldn't handicap himself with a smoke bomb. Especially since his opponent is kage. Since the Third Raikage is a kage, he would not have an "average mind", he would have kage-level intelligence. Also, certain ninja tools don't fit character's battle style. Itachi is proficient in shurikenjutsu yet we have never seen him use, paper bombs, smoke bombs and wire strings. The third can out-run Amaterasu and also Tsukuyomi or do you really think Itachi can keep up with the Third's speed?

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    • Fact check. It wasn't 1000 shinobi that the 3rd Raikage faced. It was 10,000.

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    • Ninja Of War wrote: ^I don't think Itachi would use a smoke bomb, since it would hinder his Sharingan. Itachi, like all Uchiha, rely on their Sharingan as their main ability, he wouldn't handicap himself with a smoke bomb. Especially since his opponent is kage. Since the Third Raikage is a kage, he would not have an "average mind", he would have kage-level intelligence. Also, certain ninja tools don't fit character's battle style. Itachi is proficient in shurikenjutsu yet we have never seen him use, paper bombs, smoke bombs and wire strings. The third can out-run Amaterasu and also Tsukuyomi or do you really think Itachi can keep up with the Third's speed?

      Confirms my point that everyone in this thread thinks speed is the most important thing in a battle. Right, the itachi needs his eyes to see, and now I suppose the raikage can also see through smoke too? Was there a byakugan that the raikage had that I didn't know about ? Smoke bombs and paper bombs are standard ninja tools, we have seen most high level ninja use them one time or another, and we have seen itachi use paper bombs. Like I said before, he has 3 things to create a smoke screen, great clone explosion, smoke bomb, paper bomb. I don't see anyone bashing kakashi for using a smoke bomb versus pain that also "hindered his sharingan", because that same smoke bomb allowed him to almost kill the Deva Path.Right, the raikage can dodge attacks he can SEE coming. If he doesn't see amatersau coming there is no dodging. If he accidentally makes eye contact there is no dodging either. This is the third time someone has referenced the sasuke fight, but thing is, the Raikage was LOOKING at sasuke's sharingan and he saw amaterasu coming because he had intel on it and sasuke used no distraction whatsoever, so much for sneak attacks. The raikage can dodge amaterasu if he sees it coming, and only if he sees it coming. Right and more of the untouchable argument , I see. Raikage is too fast to get hit by any attack ? Let's look into this claim. Chapter 588 page 7, oh look the untouchable raikage was touched by a susanoo arm ! Oh look the same raikage too fast to be caught in genjustu gets caught in genjustu on chapter 588 page 8. Chapter 463 page 1 oh look the raikage apparently didn't use his untouchable speed to dodge a point blank chidori. look here is another untouchable raikage on chapter 554 page 4 -5that got touched! This is blasphemy! Now that we have removed the untouchable myth, itachi simply needs to decieve the raikage to land his one hit kill techniques. Itachi doesnt need to be faster than the raikage to deceive him, Mr. Rubber proved that. Oh so now all kages are equal in intelligence now? What intelligence hype or feats does raikage have that suggests he is as smart as kakashi tobirama minato or hiruzen? Last I checked the third raikage was known for his spear and shield, not his brain. No one is answering the tough questions. Is the third raikage breaching armored susanoo? Is he smarter than itachi? Is he wiser than itachi? How effective will his blitz be considering the fact that itachi won't be standing still when he starts it and likely will be weaving handsigns that the sharingan couldn't track? Because all I have seen in this thread is that raikage is untouchable and his blitz is uncounterable and itachi supposedly cant harm him when tsyukyomi and amaterasu both can harm the raikage, rather they one shot him. It's obvious that the raikage wins in speed and stamina, now that we have gotten that out of the way, what about the other areas of fighting?

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    • MIGshinobi wrote: Confirms my point that everyone in this thread thinks speed is the most important thing in a battle.

      When you're up against someone like the Raikage, who's so fast the sharingan has difficulty tracking it; has a body that can tank a Sage Art: Rasenshuriken with only a few minor scratches; AND has a lighting spear that can damage that monstrous body, then yes, speed is very very important. It's your fanboyism that is clouding your judgement here.

      The Raikage's phenomenal speed will effectively prevent him from being caught in one-shot kills like Tsukuyomi, Amaterasu and the Totsuka Blade. Itachi is smart and skilled enough to eventually catch the Raikage in those jutsus, but that's not happening during the beginning of the battle. The Raikage will keep on avoiding the jutsus while simultaneously forcing Itachi to use his Susanoo. Because without Susanoo, Itachi will be slaughtered in the first few minutes of the battle.

      And we know what happens when Itachi starts using his Susanoo: incredible pain and rapidly diminishing chakra reserves. By the time Itachi does manage to catch the Raikage in Tsukuyomi, Itachi would most probably fall to the ground out of exhaustion, with the result being that both end up being severely disoriented.

      It's highly unlikely that Itachi will catch 3rd Ay in Tsukuyomi before collapsing himself. Because whether you like it or not, his speed and strength will ensure that Itachi will be heavily exhausted before he manages to trick Ay into looking into his eyes. After that, the victory goes to the shinobi who manages to recover faster. I don't know who will in that situation.

      Also, your smoke-bomb argument doesn't hold either. First of all, it's not going to disorient the Raikage. He'd be moving too fast for the smoke to cloud his eyes effectively. Also no, Itachi isn't going to Amaterasu the Raikage's ass from behind the smoke bomb, because the Raikage's speed is difficult for even the sharingan to track. More often than not, Itachi won't even know what hit him before he notices a gaping hole in his body.

      This thing has been stated again and again and again by others so I'm not going to argue this further because clearly, the smoke bomb of Itachi-Wins-No-Matter-What has disoriented you.

      Also, it doesn't matter if the Raikage can't pierce Itachi's Armoured Susanoo. He doesn't need to. All he needs to do is to pressurize Itachi to use his Susanoo continuously for, at most, half an hour. We've seen what the Susanoo did to Sasgay, who had Indra's chakra. No way Itachi is going to hold up Armoured Susanoo properly for more than 15 minutes. I'd give him 30 mins of Susanoo max.

      After that, Itachi coughs blood from his mouth; bleeds blood from both his eyes; and before he knows it, his chest and abdomen will be dripping with bucket loads of blood and the squashed remains of his entrails. That's the Raikage's Hell Stab for ya.

      So I give the victory to the Raikage 8/10. Itachi is no pushover. But I seriously hate the irrational glorification of Itachi.

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    • BakumatsuWarrior wrote:

      MIGshinobi wrote: Confirms my point that everyone in this thread thinks speed is the most important thing in a battle.

      When you're up against someone like the Raikage, who's so fast the sharingan has difficulty tracking it; has a body that can tank a Sage Art: Rasenshuriken with only a few minor scratches; AND has a lighting spear that can damage that monstrous body, then yes, speed is very very important. It's your fanboyism that is clouding your judgement here.

      The Raikage's phenomenal speed will effectively prevent him from being caught in one-shot kills like Tsukuyomi, Amaterasu and the Totsuka Blade. Itachi is smart and skilled enough to eventually catch the Raikage in those jutsus, but that's not happening during the beginning of the battle. The Raikage will keep on avoiding the jutsus while simultaneously forcing Itachi to use his Susanoo. Because without Susanoo, Itachi will be slaughtered in the first few minutes of the battle.

      And we know what happens when Itachi starts using his Susanoo: incredible pain and rapidly diminishing chakra reserves. By the time Itachi does manage to catch the Raikage in Tsukuyomi, Itachi would most probably fall to the ground out of exhaustion, with the result being that both end up being severely disoriented.

      It's highly unlikely that Itachi will catch 3rd Ay in Tsukuyomi before collapsing himself. Because whether you like it or not, his speed and strength will ensure that Itachi will be heavily exhausted before he manages to trick Ay into looking into his eyes. After that, the victory goes to the shinobi who manages to recover faster. I don't know who will in that situation.

      Also, your smoke-bomb argument doesn't hold either. First of all, it's not going to disorient the Raikage. He'd be moving too fast for the smoke to cloud his eyes effectively. Also no, Itachi isn't going to Amaterasu the Raikage's ass from behind the smoke bomb, because the Raikage's speed is difficult for even the sharingan to track. More often than not, Itachi won't even know what hit him before he notices a gaping hole in his body.

      This thing has been stated again and again and again by others so I'm not going to argue this further because clearly, the smoke bomb of Itachi-Wins-No-Matter-What has disoriented you.

      Also, it doesn't matter if the Raikage can't pierce Itachi's Armoured Susanoo. He doesn't need to. All he needs to do is to pressurize Itachi to use his Susanoo continuously for, at most, half an hour. We've seen what the Susanoo did to Sasgay, who had Indra's chakra. No way Itachi is going to hold up Armoured Susanoo properly for more than 15 minutes. I'd give him 30 mins of Susanoo max.

      After that, Itachi coughs blood from his mouth; bleeds blood from both his eyes; and before he knows it, his chest and abdomen will be dripping with bucket loads of blood and the squashed remains of his entrails. That's the Raikage's Hell Stab for ya.

      So I give the victory to the Raikage 8/10. Itachi is no pushover. But I seriously hate the irrational glorification of Itachi.

      First of all, it was v2 4th raikage who couldn't be tracked by the sharingan at top speed, and I don't need to repeat myself 2 million times on the flaws of blitzing, and I'm also not gonna repeat myself and post panels of those "untouchable" raikages being touched and caught in genjutsu, you simply disregarded them , and yet I'm a fanboy? His armor doesn't protect him against tsyukyomi nor does it against amaterasu, so I rest my case there. There is no recovering from tsyukyomi, the diagnosis is instant coma, and kakashi implied that the trauma can be potentially Enough to leave you very close to death. The only reason kakashi was still somewhat standing is because the sharingan resisted some of the damage


      Right, because the raikage isn't gonna be disoriented by a point blank explosion in his face after blitzing into it at top speed, and sure, he can keep runninng all he wants, he has lost sight of itachi and now must turn around and regain his bearings. Its itachi who has the advantage in that situation, not the raikage. And like I said, great clone explosion or a simple paper bomb can do this and punishes a top speed blitz heavily.

      No one said speed isn't important, it isn't the most important when you are lacking against your opponent in other stats. I see this all the time in raikage threads , they win with one blitz no matter the opponent as if the only option for countering a blitz is simply dodging. Itachi has an advantage most people don't have against the third raikage, which is the fire power to one shot him, so his whole armor hype is out of the Window. He is also outclassed in intelligence and wisdom, and due to the yata mirror and susanoo his hell stab isn't nearly as effective as it normally would be. His only advantage is basically speed/ reflexes (and its not like itachi doesnt have absurdly fast jutsu speed of his own) andstamina, and last time I checked this is prime itachi, so he is still using his medication. Do I think the raikage can outlast itachi and come out of this alive? Yes because he can evade attacks that he sees coming and has the stamina and strength to keep going, but that isn't something happening consistently when itachi beats him in everything else. And itachi's time with susanoo is being exaggerated, as he held it up and nearly outlasted hebi sasuke after splitting his stamina in half with a kage bunshin, using tsyukyomi, 2 amaterasu, one of them being used to cover the surrounding area of the mountain, as well as miscellaneous genjustu plus fireballs while he stopped taking his meds. This time, itachi isn't holding back and he won't be wasting 30 percent of his chakra after a tsyukyomi, because unlike sasuke, raikage can't break it.

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    • @MIGshinobi: You don't like the blitzing argument because you know Itachi will be slaughtered if he doesn't use Susanoo. Give us one good reason why the Raikage can't blitz Itachi without Susanoo. The Raikages are masters at blitzing and fighting at superhuman speeds. The 4th Raikage fought with Minato, a master of FTG, quite a number of times. And he was able to keep up and survive against an FTG master. Do you really think Itachi can defeat the Raikage without Susanoo?

      Itachi will evade with his smoke bombs and exploding bombs for a few minutes. And then he gets slaughtered if he doesn't use Susanoo. Small-time genjutsus will work only if the Raikage is made immobile, which would buy Itachi some time to use Amaterasu. And I see little reason to believe that Itachi's weak genjutsus can immobilize the Raikage. And if the Raikage keeps running around even in genjutsu then Itachi will have a difficult time to one-shot the Raikage. And sooner or later, the Raikage will realise he's in a genjutsu and act accordingly.

      Also your assertions about the Raikage's lack of intellect holds no water whatsoever. You judge the 3rd Raikage's intelligence based on his son. That's the same as arguing that Minato is DUMB because NARUTO is dumb. Do you see how ridiculous your argument is?

      3rd Ay was fully controlled by Kabuto during his fight with KCM Naruto. He had no need to use his intellect against Gaara and Ohnoki's division of shinobi fodders because of his overwhelming strength. So your assertion that Itachi outclasses the Raikage in other skillsets such as intelligence and planning is heavily unfounded.

      And I say again, the Exploding Clones and the smoke bombs aren't going to disorient the Raikage even the slightest bit. He's moving too fast for the smoke or explosion debris to latch on to his eyes. And neither is the shockwave from the exploding clones going to affect the Raikage's monstrous in the least bit.

      And you talk about the Raikage needing to change directions as a liability. How is that a liability when Itachi won't be able to counteract quickly enough after his smoke bomb/exploding clone feint? You talk as though those distractions are going to give Itachi enough time to effectively trap the Raikage into something bad, like some genjutsu or amaterasu or whatever is in your mind. It's NOT. That guy dodged KCM's Rasenshuriken twice in succession, once in point blank range. Do you really think someone like that is going to fall for Itachi's traps that easily? With the Raikage's speed and blitzing abilities, it's gonna take a longass time and a lot of hit and miss strategies to fully trap him. But the Raikage's relentless attacks and his overwhelming strength means that Itachi will be forced to use Susanoo if he wants to stay alive.

      So let me remind you. Itachi is fast, but he's NOT THAT FAST either. He's gonna need quite some time to trap the Raikage. Small-time finger genjutsus aren't enough to do anything against the Raikage, unless Itachi already has his Susanoo ready in order to quickly finish him off with the Totsuka Blade. And I'm not in the slightest bit convinced that Itachi can pull that off simultaneously. Either he traps the Raikage in some small genjutsu, then spends a few seconds after that to manifest his Susanoo and then the Totsuka Blade, which gives the Raikage enough time to realise he's in a genjutsu; or he uses his Susanoo full-time to withstand the Raikage's relentless attack while simultaneously trying to hit him with the Totsuka Blade, which the Raikage will evade with ease.

      And we all know what the Susanoo does to an MS user, so let's not jump into Uchiha-wankery here. Itachi isn't going to use Armoured Susanoo and the finger genjutsu at the same time, at least not easily. Itachi will need intense focus and concentration to point the finger at the right direction for a super-fast Raikage. That will distract him from maintaining his Susanoo, which is already producing intense pain in each and every cell of his body (not to forget making him progressively blinder).

      Also, you over-estimate Prime Itachi. Like I said, if someone with Indra's chakra had such a hard time maintaining Susanoo, then it's foolish to expect Itachi to perform better. And I repeat again, the Raikage doesn't need to pierce Itachi's Armoured Susanoo. All he needs is to pressurise Itachi long enough to maintain his armoured Susanoo. Within a max time of half an hour of maintaining Susanoo, Itachi will be on his knees spitting buckets of blood out of his mouth.

      You've countered this argument by saying that a sick Itachi covered a mountain with Amaterasu after using MS jutsus a couple of times, along with some taijutsu and Katon jutsus before using Susanoo. Let me remind you that while Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi does produce great pain to the MS user, it does not produce nearly enough pain as an MS Susanoo. Itachi used Susanoo in his last fight against Sasuke for only a couple of minutes. Sasuke, with his Indra chakra, used Susanoo quite a lot against the Five Kage. THAT is the benchmark with which to compare and contrast Prime Itachi's hypothetical ability to maintain the Susanoo, NOT Itachi covering a mountain with Amaterasu.

      And based on Sasuke's performance, it is really naive to believe that Prime Itachi will be able to maintain the Susanoo long enough to defeat the Raikage.

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    • Minato 87 wrote: Will Totsuka Blade work against the strongest shield?

      Yeah the blade can work it can pierce anything it`s an auto defeat type move however the question is will Itachi`s body and speed be able to keep up with the 3rd. Itachi only has MS not EMS so using it many times will cause great strain on his eyes unless he is Obito then he can abuse MS as much as he wants heh.

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    • Naglfar94 wrote: Yeah the blade can work it can pierce anything....

      Where did you get the notion that the Totsuka Blade can pierce anything?

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    • @MIGshinobi

      Itachi is not going to risk losing the predictive and perceptive abilities of the Sharingan to put the third in genjutsu, he would be extremely vulnerable to a counterattack at that point, just like when Kakashi used the chidori without the Sharingan. It matters more that Itachi can't see, because the Sharingan is his advantage, without it he is at a great disadvantage, since it is the core of his abilities. On the third seeing Amaterasu, he does not need to look into Itachi's eyes, he just needs to see when the blood runs down his face to anticipate it.

      Never did I say that the Third is untouchable, but like his son, he uses lightning release armor. The 4th was able to avoid pointblank attacks with this jutsu, it is reasonable to assume that the Third can do the same. Since you stated that the Third has an "average mind", you have to prove that he is unintelligent, otherwise, we have to accept that he has kage-level intelligence.

      The third has way more battle experience than Itachi, so he is definitely wiser that Itachi. The full powered Hell-stab technique was able to harm his own body(known as the strongest shield), so in my opinion he can break through armored Susanoo. Itachi weaves signs extremely fast, but he was unable to weave signs when a fuma shuriken was thrown at him. Also, Itachi apparently can't dodge lightning, so the Third can use his black lightning on him and it's guaranteed to hit.

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    • UltimaDude wrote:

      Naglfar94 wrote: Yeah the blade can work it can pierce anything....

      Where did you get the notion that the Totsuka Blade can pierce anything?

      It`s been awhile so i forgot where but it was mentioned atleast once in the manga I think hmm was it Zetsu that brought it up? hmm I forgot. and due to the nature of the blade being sealing and all all it really needs to do is touch the opponent I suppose. read the wiki entry on this very wiki and it says the blade can pierce almost anything so yeah I wasn`t too far off saying that it can go through anything so the blade will have no problem piercing the lightning armor I mean it`s not like it is on the same level of Madara perfect Susanoo so yeah the problem is landing the hit.

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    • Naglfar94 wrote: It`s been awhile so i forgot where but it was mentioned atleast once in the manga I think hmm was it Zetsu that brought it up? hmm I forgot. and due to the nature of the blade being sealing and all all it really needs to do is touch the opponent I suppose. read the wiki entry on this very wiki and it says the blade can pierce almost anything so yeah I wasn`t too far off saying that it can go through anything so the blade will have no problem piercing the lightning armor I mean it`s not like it is on the same level of Madara perfect Susanoo so yeah the problem is landing the hit.

      I highly doubt it can pierce the Third R's lightning armor since a Rasenshuriken couldn't do jack

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    • The 3rd Raikage's moveset possesses no technique that can harm Itachi behind Susano'o. Nukite bounces right off the Yata Mirror. Totsuka doesn't possess the feats to pierce the 3rd clad in Raiton armor though. Not sure what kind of effect Amaterasu would have on the 3rd Raikage. If Itachi hits him, the 3rd may be able to keep fighting due to his durability and endurance.

      The 3rd Raikage can definitely outlast though since he stalemated Gyuuki.

      Itachi can win if he can exploit the 3rd's weakness like Naruto did, though that doubtful.

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    • well not very sure about this but itachi can keep up with high speed combatants, he was able to spar with NTCM Naruto who's speed is same as the 4th raikage.infact I believe it was only because of sharingan that he can see any attack coming before hand and is able to counteract in time even against much faster opponent.(just like sasuke was able to predict naruto's movement in VOTE when they fought for first time during sasuke's recovery mission) Also that rasenshuriken not affecting raikage during battle is a moot point since the technique doesn't cause huge physical damage (not comparable to what it does to internal chakra network)instead it destroys the chakra network(that's why tsunade was talking about it being more like a poison than some physical attack). so comparing his defence by stating this feat is obsolete since if he had been alive he would have definitely died because of a damaged chakra network even if his body survived the physical damage.

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    • 8Gates wrote: Not sure what kind of effect Amaterasu would have on the 3rd Raikage. If Itachi hits him, the 3rd may be able to keep fighting due to his durability and endurance.

      Amaterasu burns everything. So it would burn through his armor and defeat him. He may last a few minutes extra because of his ridiculous endurance, but if Itachi hits Amaterasu, it's over. If the Raikage hasn't already been hit and defeated by Tsukuyome, that is.

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    • @Namikaze He did not spar with NTCM Naruto. He attacked Naruto simply blocked while holding back to talk to Itachi. As for statement that because the Sharingan has predictive abilities, Well when the 4th dodged Amaterasu, Sasuke lost sight of him. Also, that statement about the jutsu not causing physical damage, explain that to the Human Path who was severely hurt by the attack. And no even if he was alive, it still wouldn't harm him because of his extreme durability.

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    • Namikazenaruto9 wrote: well not very sure about this but itachi can keep up with high speed combatants, he was able to spar with NTCM Naruto who's speed is same as the 4th raikage.infact I believe it was only because of sharingan that he can see any attack coming before hand and is able to counteract in time even against much faster opponent.(just like sasuke was able to predict naruto's movement in VOTE when they fought for first time during sasuke's recovery mission) Also that rasenshuriken not affecting raikage during battle is a moot point since the technique doesn't cause huge physical damage (not comparable to what it does to internal chakra network)instead it destroys the chakra network(that's why tsunade was talking about it being more like a poison than some physical attack). so comparing his defence by stating this feat is obsolete since if he had been alive he would have definitely died because of a damaged chakra network even if his body survived the physical damage.

      NTCM Naruto is even slower than V1 A when he doesn't use the Body Flicker. V1 A was smacking him around easily and Naruto kept talking about how fast he was. Naruto never made any comments about Itachi's speed during their battle. Infact, Naruto and Itachi discussed Sasuke the whole time during their brief fight. Had Naruto been 100% serious he would have easily blitzed Itachi since he is fast enough to avoid V2 A's full speed attack at point blank when he combines NTCM with BF.

      Also, the Rasenshurikens that NTCM Naruto fired were so powerful and large that they exploded into swirling vortexes of destruction that left craters in the ground. Hell, even SM Naruto's Rasenshuriken was so strong that it could vaporize bodies. The Third Raikage tanking that is extremely, extremely impressive.

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    • Namikazenaruto9 wrote: Also that rasenshuriken not affecting raikage during battle is a moot point since the technique doesn't cause huge physical damage (not comparable to what it does to internal chakra network)instead it destroys the chakra network(that's why tsunade was talking about it being more like a poison than some physical attack). so comparing his defence by stating this feat is obsolete since if he had been alive he would have definitely died because of a damaged chakra network even if his body survived the physical damage.

      Err....you might want to check out what Naruto's Sage Mode Enhanced Rasenshuriken did to Pain's Human Path.

      SPOILERS: Only the upper part of his face was left when the Rasenshuriken was done with its job. The rest of the body was totally obliterated. I'm pretty sure THAT feat his highly relevant to this discussion, since the jutsu that obliterated 90% of Pain's Human Path only gave a few minor scratches to the Raikage's body.

      There's no way in hell Itachi's normal katon and shuriken jutsus would get past the Lightning Armour. His only hopes are Amaterasu, Tsukuyomi and Totsuka Blade. If Itachi resorts to using Susanoo, and he will, it's only a matter of time before he runs out of chakra and collapses to the floor out of sheer pain and exhaustion.

      Like I've said before, the Raikage has no need to break or damage the Susanoo. All he needs to do is to pressurize Itachi into maintaining his Susanoo by relentlessly attacking from different angles. It's highly unlikely the Totsuka Blade will be able to make physical contact, thanks to the Raikage's speed. So we have an impasse that will eventually (and quickly) be broken by an exhausted Itachi collapsing to the ground.

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    • @Legendary Super Saiya-Jin 4 Naruto doesn't use the Body Flicker Technique

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    • UltimaDude wrote: @Legendary Super Saiya-Jin 4 Naruto doesn't use the Body Flicker Technique

      It is a basic technique that almost all shinobi can use according to the wiki, and if not, that only further proves my point that he was holding back severely.

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    • Legendary Super Saiya-Jin 4 wrote: It is a basic technique that almost all shinobi can use according to the wiki, and if not, that only further proves my point that he was holding back severely.

      He hasn't used it in base so I don't think he was using it in KCM. Nonetheless, I agree with you

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    • @rachin 123 well to me it looked like a small taijutsu spar ,and I was trying to explain how itachi was able to keep up with Naruto using his sharingan prowess. also during the fight between sasuke and 4th raikage it was sasuke who was able to match his speed and reflexes throughout the fight (with sasuke even dodging his attack and using chidori to penetrate his cloak of lightning or whatever).if you are quoting that instance where he couldn't keep up with raikage I would like to point out that Amaterasu causes a huge strain and recoil to his eyes too which was perhaps why he couldn't keep up with him after the use. @Legendary Super Saiya-Jin 4 and BakumatsuWarrior , I think perhaps I exaggerated about the physical damage but nevertheless if that 3rd raikage was alive during that fight(with Naruto) he would have definitely died a long painful death also whatever I said about that chakra network and that he not being able to heal up that damage is still true.

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    • @Namikaze But Naruto never fought Itachi in taijutsu or period in his KCM. Like I said Itachi used Body Flicker, jumping above, Naruto jumped after him, Itachi swung, Naruto blocked, conversation. That's there fight. From there Naruto fought Nagato. I don't know what you were looking at but it wasn't them fighting.

      Also about the damage of the Rasenshuriken. It very briefly left the Raikage unconscious and with small scars, but him surviving had nothing to do with being an Edo especially with his astounding durability either. The fact that it didn't even tear him apart like it did the Human Path actually proves your theory wrong. It is shown that the stronger the attack the longer it takes to regenerate. It is not possible that after the dust cleared he regenerated.

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    • @Namikazenaruto9:

      Well let's look at it this way. Sage-enhanced Rasenshuriken is so destructive that its microscopic wind needles completely obliterate 90% of the cells it comes into contact with, at least for shinobis with normal bodies. But this does not work on the Raikage. He first has his Lightning Armour, which effectively blocks a good chunk of those microscopic Wind needles. Those needles that do make it past the Lightning Armour managed to produce only minor scratches in the Raikage's body.

      Since you're talking at the microscopic level, I'll try and do the same. The extreme durability of the Raikage's body could perhaps be because.....the Raikage's individual cells have extremely thick cell walls? In real life, animal cells don't have cell walls but plants do. At least that was what I was taught in high school, so feel free to correct me. Maybe the Raikage's cells were somewhat like plants, except that the cell "walls" were orders of magnitude tougher than anything known in the real world.

      Or we could throw that ridiculous theory out of the window and assume that the Raikage possessed special chakra that enhanced his cells and somehow the chakra also gave strong protective shields to the individual cells. That sounds more in tune with the Naruto-verse.

      Either way, contrary to your claims, the Rasenshuriken's chakra needles failed to do any notable damage to the Raikage's chakra system. Had the damage been done, the Raikage's scars would have been much, much deeper. Yet the manga shows that the Raikage's scars were very shallow. There couldn't have been any damage done to the Raikage's chakra system with such shallow scars.

      And as @Rachin123 made it clear, even in Edo mode the Raikage's body didn't show any sign of significant body recovery. I'm talking about how, a damaged Edo body reconstructs itself from its scattered debris. The debris themselves look like pieces of paper. If your theory were correct, there should have been a lot of Edo debris around the Raikage thanks to the huge damage to the chakra network. But there was not. The wounds were too shallow and looked little more than scratches. So no, in real life, the 3rd Raikage would successfully tank KCM Naruto's Rasenshuriken.

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    • @Baku, except the raikage didn't keep up with minato, it was bee who saved him. The raikage blitzed minato purely out of ego, minato casually let the raikage close the distance, and nearly punished the raikage for that poor decision. That fight waa a perfect example of the flaws of blitzing since blitz ing speed=/= striking speed. Minato was just skirmishing with them it was never a fight to the death. The raikages arent killing any high level ninja with one blitz whether they are slower or faster, this isn't just about itachi like you think. In fact, you can't even reference me one shinobi with a name who the raikages killed with a blitz right off the back. The raikages have only blitzed fodder successfully, and fodder are irrelevant. You think that itachi, or anyone for that matter, can't weave a single hand sign when it takes a second for the raikage to even activate his raiton armor? It only takes a few hand signs for a substitution jutsu, crow substitution jutsu, a shadow clone jutsu, all the more easier with itachi's absurd jutsu speed. Mr. Rubber, who is much slower than the raikage successfully countered his blitz. Even the slower killer bee touched the supposedly untouchable v2 raikage. If you can't beat your opponent in speed, then simply dodging is out of the question but don't act like there arent a TON of other options for dealing with a blitz

      Saying the raikage won't be disoriented after charging at sonic speed into a big explosion into it is pure bias. It won't damage him but he will be disoriented and need to regain his bearinngs. I have said time and time again how smart minato and naruto are, so I don't see that's relevant. The raikage dodged rasenshuriken because he SAW it coming. And even then, using careful misdirection naruto landed his attack on the supposed ly untouchable raikage. Itachi's fighting style involves overlaying multiple sneak attacks at once, just watch his fight with kakashi in part one. The third raikage is average intelligence because he was only known for his spear and shield. You guys can claim he has " kage level intelligence"all you want, he has zero intelligence hype and feats, and there is more than enough evidence that itachi is smarter and wiser. The raikage fought those 10, 000 shinobi and gyuki purely using brawns. Then look at itachi vs kisame, he used crow substitution to dodge kisame's shark droplets, then after reforming he clashed his katon with kisame's suiton creating mist but itachi used his sharingan prowess to tag kisame's shadow in the mist to then gain the upper hand, and also had his crow observe kisame's location to then counter kisame's bunshin feint. So like I said, let the third raikage use his sonic blitz right into an explosion, become disoriented, itachi isnt disoriented and has his crow summon plus shadow tracking to detect raikage's location with more ease. If the raikage sees itachi's GG jutsu coming, he will be able to dodge, but that's if he does. All that speed doesn't mean a thing if you don't see the attack coming . Referencing sasuke is pointless because he didn't even make one attempt to trick the raikage, he let the raikage see amaterasu coming, and then used a poor defense once raikage closed the distance. If he was smarter, he would have used a smoke bomb then step out side of susanoo. The hotheaded, reckless raikage knocks down susanoo, doesn't know where sasuke is, and by that time he gets an amaterasu to the head. Unlike sasuke, itachi will be putting his intelligence to good use. So now that I have said that let's recap once again, the raikage isn't untouchable as he and his son have been touched by slower opponents, the raikage is a close range fighter so that makes him have a higher chance if getting caught in genjustu, there is no evidence of how he would fair against itachi's lower tier genjustu considering his son was one shotted by madara's regular sharingan genjustu, who is not as good a specialist as itachi, and that genjustu deactivated his raiton armor iirrc, itachi isn't standing idoly while the raikage attempts to stall out susanoo, and the third's armor is irrevelant because itachi has 2-3 jutsu that one shot and itachi is smarter. The raikage does have a decent chance to win but let's stop with the myths. His speed, strength and durability as well as stamina are all very impressive, but itachi has answers for everything, the only real problem is speed but there are counter measures for that.

      No one is overrating prime itachi, his stamina is still medicore, tell me something I don't already know. But using stamina feats from a sick , blind, holding back itachi who already sapped 30 percent of his chakra on his GG genjustu that only sasuke and few others could break, and then spamming amaterasu across the battle field on purpose to further drain his stamina on purpose is very illogical. His susanoo time will obviously be better.

      @Ninja of War, I'm free to dismiss the argument about itachi not being able to outpace a shuriken on the grounds that even black zetsu said that should have been a piece of cake for itachi, and that we are talking about prime itach, not sick itachi. Itachi cant dodge a lighting technique? Oh so dodging sasukes chidori in part one must have been a miracle. He couldn't dodge kirin because no can , it's actual lighting which hits the ground in a fraction of a second, even black zetsu says this. I'm not addresing the smoke bomb argument, because by that logic no ninja should use smoke bombs since it obscures the vision of anyone who lacks a byakugan, so I guess sharingan kakashi was hindered by the smoke bomb he almost killed pain with too. Evidence the third raikage has more battle experience? Battle experience=/= wisdom, and no he isn't wiser than itachi who actually has wisdom feats, unlike the raikage. Evidence the raiton armor is sturdier than susanoo? The rasenshuriken he tanked left him without armor and incapacitated for a brief moment, and for all we know he recovered quickly because of edo tensei and also rasenshuriken messes up the chakra network. The only way to cure that is edo tensi , the raikage's armor is durable and he has high pain tolerance but he is still flesh and blood. Without edo tensi he would be paralyzed like kakazu was.Just as he was about to be sealed he then got back up. His one finger nukite was more effective because of the energy being concentrated instead of being distributed across his armor. I highly doubt it's gonna completely break through armored susanoo.

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    • MIGshinobi wrote: @Baku, except the raikage didn't keep up with minato, it was bee who saved him. The raikage blitzed minato purely out of ego, minato casually let the raikage close the distance, and nearly punished the raikage for that poor decision.

      He was very close to Minato's speed. He got his ass handed down to him, but he was very, very close to Minato's speed indeed. It's no use denying that. Worse, you assume the Raikage will end up with the same result against Itachi. Minato has been hyped up to be one of the fastest shinobi in history, if not the fastest. Itachi has some speed hype but nowhere near that level. Failing to blitz an FTG master doesn't mean failure to blitz Itachi. Itachi is an entire tier lower to Minato in speed, thanks to FTG. And it was FTG that gave Minato the edge against the Raikage.

      Saying the raikage won't be disoriented after charging at sonic speed into a big explosion into it is pure bias.

      No it's not bias. It's a well-founded conclusion based on the feats of both the Raikage and the Exploding Clone Technique. The explosion isn't big at all, and the Raikage easily tanked NTCM Naruto's Rasenshuriken with shallow scratches. In order to disorient the Raikage, his body must be subjected to enough force to forcefully dislodge him from his path, or his eyes should be obscured with smoke or debris.

      The force produced by Itachi's exploding clone isn't even going to budge the Raikage by a millimeter, forget about appreciably disorienting him. And he'll be moving too fast for any appreciable debris to latch on to his eyes.

      There might be an argument if Itachi detonates his clone well before the Raikage hits him. That might blur a portion of the Raikage's field of vision for like a second. And Itachi would lose the element of surprise if he detonated before the Raikage hit the clone. Plus the shockwave of the explosion, insignificant as it is compared to the Raikage's tanking ability, will not hit the Raikage as forcefully as it would if Itachi were to explode when the Raikage is in point-blank range. But like I've already explained above, whether the clone explodes in point-blank range or not doesn't matter much in terms of the shockwave, since the Raikage eats shockwaves like that for breakfast.

      The only advantage exploding a clone well before the Raikage hits it is that it might blur a portion of the Raikage's field of vision, which will give Itachi an extra second to do something. But on the flipside, the explosion will blur a portion of Itachi's field of vision too, since Raikage's speed will prevent Itachi from moving far away from his clone. As fast as Itachi's handseals are, the Raikage's attack is at least equally fast, if not more. Itachi will have his hands full, and hence will not have an easy time doing the bunshin feints you're conjuring up.

      The raikage dodged rasenshuriken because he SAW it coming. And even then, using careful misdirection naruto landed his attack on the supposedly untouchable raikage.

      Nobody here is saying that the Raikage is untouchable. We're merely claiming that he's 'difficult to touch. And even if he is touched, we're claiming that he won't be harmed in the slightest bit by most of Itachi's attack, except for Amaterasu and Totsuka Blade. But it's going to be super difficult to Amaterasu the Raikage's ass, since not only is he a moving target, but he's a moving target that moves very, very fast. Fast enough to blitz Itachi if he loses focus for a second and doesn't have the Susanoo to protect him.

      Itachi's fighting style involves overlaying multiple sneak attacks at once, just watch his fight with kakashi in part one.

      Yes because the Raikage and Kakashi are sooooo comparable, the former is known as the strongest Raikage in history, while the latter is known as the weakest Hokage in history.

      Well I'll put aside the sarcasm and give a clearer logic which has been repeated by me and others a hundred times already: The Raikage is too fast for Itachi to effectively come up with multi-layered sneak attacks. Itachi is definitely capable of eventually coming up with an attack, but it's not gonna happen against the Raikage in the beginning of the battle, and it's gonna take a lot of hit and miss strategies to come up with that.

      But one "miss" could potentially end Itachi's life in an instant. So Itachi will inevitably use his Susanoo. And that will limit his abilities to sneak up considerably, thanks to the pain Susanoo causes. And once Itachi starts using the Susanoo, it's a downhill battle for Itachi if he doesn't finish the Raikage quickly.

      The third raikage is average intelligence because he was only known for his spear and shield. You guys can claim he has " kage level intelligence"all you want, he has zero intelligence hype and feats, and there is more than enough evidence that itachi is smarter and wiser.

      Without doubt, Itachi's intelligence hype and feats are above the Raikage. But the rest of us are not convinced it's enough to secure a victory against the Raikage. Because Itachi will have his hands full dodging the Raikage, so it will be very difficult for him to come up with effective plans quickly.

      Then look at itachi vs kisame

      Please don't bring game-only OVAs into the discussion.

      Referencing sasuke is pointless because he didn't even make one attempt to trick the raikage

      Nobody is referencing Sasuke with respect to intelligence. I'm referencing Sasuke to gauge Itachi's stamina while using SUSANOO. And like I said, if an Indra-transmigrant struggled to keep Susanoo activated for a prolonged period of time, then no way in hell is Itachi going to do that either, whether he is healthy or not.

      there is no evidence of how he would fair against itachi's lower tier genjustu considering his son was one shotted by madara's regular sharingan genjustu, who is not as good a specialist as itachi

      From the looks of it, it was Genjutsu:MS, not Genjutsu: Sharingan. Also, Edo Madara was an overwhelming MONSTER of strength and power, which is why the 4th Ay wasn't running around trying to blitz Madara, because Edo Madara was a monstrous tank while 4th Ay was a mini-jeep in comparison. His slower speed meant that Madara had enough reaction time to one-shot Ay with Genjutsu: MS.

      Itachi is nothing like Edo Madara in terms of destructive power. Not even close. So the 3rd Ay has the luxury of blitzing around and going here and there casually avoiding Itachi's attacks, which drastically reduces his chances of establishing eye contact with Itachi.

      the third's armor is irrevelant because itachi has 2-3 jutsu that one shot

      Except Itachi's gonna have a very, very, VERY hard time one-shotting the Raikage, thanks to his speed, stamina, reflexes and his tank of a body. Itachi, on the other hand, is much slower and has far far less stamina: a fact you conveniently choose to ignore, over and over again.

      The raikage does have a decent chance to win but let's stop with the myths.

      ITACHI is the myth, NOT the Raikage.

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    • Minato purposely let the raikage get that close is what you are not understanding. The point was to flicker the kunai near the raikage's body once he got close so he could easily teleport back and counter attack. The speed wasn't the moral of the story its why blitzing isn't killing any high level shinobi right off the back. Killer bee was able to tag his brother in the fight to kill naruto too despite being the slower of the two. Itachi is slower than the third raikage, however like i said, blitzing speed =/= striking speed. Substitution, crow substitution, shadow clone , susanoo are options for itachi. Look, if the third raikage blitzes top speed into an explosion, it doesn't matter that it won't damage him, he is getting disoriented. The emphasis is on the sonic speed, he isn't gonna notice the great explosion detonating, it will be sudden, and even if he opted to keep running, he is still temporarily blinded by the smoke and debris, he has lost sight of itachi, he needs to stop and regain his bearings, meanwhile, itachi has the better position, his sharingan can help in taggimg the raikage's position. The rasenshuriken example even shows that the third raikage waa unable to do anything once he was trapped within the sphere and then was left on the ground for several seconds. And whyy exactly is the madara scenario any different when itachi is also a skilled susanoo user? The raikage wasn't blitzing around madara like an idiot because he knows that achieves nothing and his speed doesn't help him other than for dodging attacks because he is a close range fighter. Like I said , blitising speed =/= striking speed. Even against sasuke, once the raikage closed in he slowed down to begin his chop giving sasuke the chance to react, and sasuke was using a very premature version of susanoo, he couldn't use limbs. I dont see what madara being stronger has to do with anything, susnaoo is susanoo at the end of the day , only difference was that madara was using legs, but they still have the swords and yasska matagama. Itachi has genjustu: Ms as well as tsyukyomi, and as well as ephemeral and his demoinc illusions which don't even require eye contact, so he brings even mmore genjustu press ure than madara does. As much as the raikage showed impressive dodging feats, naruto used his chakra arms to carefully land his attack, andnthe raikage even saw them coming. With itachi, he won't see them coming as well because itachi is even smarter than naruto. Kakashi is still very intelligent, he is smarter thannthe raikage as well and still barely outmaneuvered the sneak attacks, and the raikage being " too fast" cop out has already been refuted. Once raikage is in close range he is still vulnerable to the attack overlays. His speed will help, but one mistake on his part causes him to get hit with A GG jutsu.

      And even in the smoke screen example, once in the smoke another crow bunshin feint can be created that can make an attempt to attack , the raikage will counter but itachi has shown he can use thst feint with the crows flocking to initiate tsyukyomi, sothat' s another possibility.

      I don't see how the ova isn't relevant, because it confirmed the canon state ments that kisame wasinferior to itachi and is the same hypothetical battle thing we are doing here. And nothing in it was really unrealistic. So like I said, the raikage's armor isnt a problem in this match up, it's only the speed and stamina. But based on all the screen time ive seen from the raikage s, the effectivnes of their speed has never made any battle one sided bar the sasuke one, and the stamina dominace is the problem itachi lacks against every opponent, so like I said nothing new.

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    • @MIGshinobi

      Actually, you can't just disregard Itachi not being able to weave signs and dodge a fuma shuriken, that is evidence of a limit to his hand sign speed. I meant that Itachi can't dodge a ranged lighting technique, which the Third has. If you are implying that the Third's black lightning is slower than Kirin lightning, please provide evidence. Itachi won't risk losing sight of the Raikage, since he would be already be hard to track. I'll say it again, it matters more that Itachi can't see, since he relies on the Sharingan as the core of his abilities, example; if he can't see the Raikage he can't predict the Raikage's attack and counter it.

      Battle experience == wisdom. Why do you say otherwise?

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    • all right guys I get that the raikage is highly durable but what about sharingan keeping up with raikage (the first argument I gave)?also what would happen if the 3rd gets hit by a water jutsu? will he get electrocuted by his own armor of lightning or whatever? also neither is their any evidence that the raikage can break itachi' Susanoo completely! also it won't be first time that he is fighting a fast opponent, he could fight shisui to stalemate too.so that speed factor won't give decisive advantage in this context

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    • Itachi actually wins this handily . Itachi has amazing observation skills and definitely WILL be able to find out the 3rd raikages weak spot like naruto did . Once that is established , a small genjutsu and an attack to that area would result in a victory for itachi .

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    • Ninja Of War wrote: @MIGshinobi

      Actually, you can't just disregard Itachi not being able to weave signs and dodge a fuma shuriken, that is evidence of a limit to his hand sign speed. I meant that Itachi can't dodge a ranged lighting technique, which the Third has. If you are implying that the Third's black lightning is slower than Kirin lightning, please provide evidence. Itachi won't risk losing sight of the Raikage, since he would be already be hard to track. I'll say it again, it matters more that Itachi can't see, since he relies on the Sharingan as the core of his abilities, example; if he can see the Raikage he can't predict the Raikage's attack and counter it.

      Battle experience == wisdom. Why do you say otherwise?

      Like I said, even black zetsu said that itachi should have been able to outpace that shuriken, it wss because that was sick itach. This is prime itachi, not sick itachi. By your logic all lighting style users withnranged attacka are undodgebable. Black zetsu clearly said kirn was undodgebable because it hits the ground in 1/1000 second sin ce it's REAL LIGHTNING. By your logic no one should be able to dodge kakashi's lightning dog.

      Battle experience isn't battle wisdom. Wisdom is your ability to decipher things you have no prioer knowledge on. Itachi figuring out the weaknesse of chibaku tensi was a feat of wisdom, and he had the wisdom of a hikage at age 7. Battle experience is your ability to react to things based on similar things you have seen before. Plus you still haven't proven that the raikage has more battle experience, nor have you shown me references for him being smarter than itachi. Your smoke bomb argument doesnt hold water because sharingan kakashi has used smoke bombs against his opponent without a problem. Like I said , it was v2 4th raikage who couldn't be tracked at top speed, the 3rd has show n no such abilities, and the raikage s have been touched by slower opponents and have been caught in genjustu.

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    • @MIGshinobi

      Actually, since you stated that the Third has an "average mind" you have to provide evidence. My evidence is that the Third is a kage, and kage have kage-level intelligence. Or are you implying that kage have "average minds" aswell? Again, if you are implying that black lightning is slower than kirin lightning, please give evidence.

      Battle experience == wisdom(in battle). Learning from combat is a vital to being a shinobi. Otherwise, Naruto would have never defeated Kakuza or a few peins. The Third fought 10000 shinobi in three days, that's a little bit more battle experience than most shinobi get in there entire lives, and that was just one battle. I don't know why you are talking about Kakashi and why he used smoke bombs. I'm talking about Itachi and why smoke bombs would hurt him, rather than help him.

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    • Next you will be telling me the third is smarter than tobirama. Look , the raikage has no intelligence feats or hype, so he is an average mind, it's that simple. Kirin is real lighting and black lighning isn't its a chakra based attack, so its dodgeable. Except kakazu had 100 years batt le experience whereas naruto was a 17 year old. Naruto was smarter than kakazu despite being far less experienced. Under your logic your grandama is automatically smarter than you just because she lived longer. You really think itachi hasn't fought more than 10, 000 shinobi in his lifetime? He was in anbu since 13. Battle experience is simply learning from combat while wisdom is solving problems you have no experience with. Battle experience and wisdom are quite the opposite.

      I mentioned kakashi because he also relies on his sharingan and he still used a smoke bomb, so no itachi can use smoke bombs too.

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    • MlGshinobi wrote: kakazu had 100 years battle experience whereas naruto was a 17 year old. Naruto was smarter than kakazu despite being far less experienced.

      This is hilarious.

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    • I'm sure it is, with that 100 years experience he couldn't see through the bunshin feint ? Right.

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    • @MIGshinobi Oh please you know plot was the only reason Naruto outsmarted and defeated Kakuzu.

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    • I agree it was plot that he was killed that fast, I mentioned it in another thread. Naruto should have needed more help to take him down, but plot or not it's not farfetched for him to be smarter. I'm just pointing out that experience =/= wisdom =/= intelligence. The 9 bijuu are at least 1000 years old and I don't see anyone calling them the smartest. I'm not saying the raikage is dumb, he obviously ewrned his title as raikage for a reason, but saying he is this intellectual being that rivals the masterminds and most brilliant people in naruto on a " kage level" intelligence cop out makes no sense for me.

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    • Ninja Of War wrote: @MIGshinobi

      Actually, since you stated that the Third has an "average mind" you have to provide evidence. My evidence is that the Third is a kage, and kage have kage-level intelligence. Or are you implying that kage have "average minds" aswell? Again, if you are implying that black lightning is slower than kirin lightning, please give evidence.

      Battle experience == wisdom(in battle). Learning from combat is a vital to being a shinobi. Otherwise, Naruto would have never defeated Kakuza or a few peins. The Third fought 10000 shinobi in three days, that's a little bit more battle experience than most shinobi get in there entire lives, and that was just one battle. I don't know why you are talking about Kakashi and why he used smoke bombs. I'm talking about Itachi and why smoke bombs would hurt him, rather than help him.

      not all kage have kage level intelligence, the fourth Raikage is an overemotional dumbass who should have given his position as leader over the alliance to anybody else.

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    • I wouldn't say the Fourth Raikage is a "dumbass". If he didn't have at least a decent amount of knowledge to lead, then they wouldn't have elected him as the leader of the the village or alliance either. It takes more than just power to be put in charge. Otherwise things can go wrong.

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    • The raikage fought sasuke while he was emotionally charge because he thought bee was dead. But against madara raikage fought well and composed and coordinate d with the other kages well. Neither raikage are idiots, they earned their title as raikage and have basic common sense and intelligence needed for their positions, but that's it. They aren't particular geniuses. Are the raikages really inyour top ten, or even your top 20 smartest naruto characters? Ninja of War's logic implies the third is smarter than shikamaru simply because he is a kage.

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    • @MIGshinobi Nobody is saying that the Raikages are geniuses. They would require above-average intelligence if they were to properly maintain the Hidden Cloud village, which they did

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    • Except I said that already. Intelligence is relative ultimately, and relative to the intelligence hype feats of other kages/ kage level shinobi they are average.

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    • @MIGshinobi Well I wasn't commenting to Ninja's post, I was at yours and correcting you accusation of him being a "dumbass". I agree that he wasn't known or shown to have a strong and clever mind like Itachi has shown to and thus we can say Itachi is smarter but intelligence doesn't always make the cut. But the 3rd would have a sufficient amount of intelligence due to him being trusted to run his entire village, and has skill to back it up with. Intelligence doesn't make the battle. But power doesn't either. Frankly both have it, but I don't see Itachi winning. I've given reasons and facts to back it up. If you don't like it well then that is your problem.

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    • And when exactly did I call the raikage a dumbass? I never did. Intelligence, like ever y other stat , is relative. Part one rock lee was fast, but there are chafacters who are faster. And it's how the stats match up in the battle. No one stat individually determines everything. You guys talk about how strong the armor of rhe raikage is when itachi can one shot him. Those ten thousand fodder shinobi obviously couldn't even scratch him. He battled the gyuki to a draw, sure that's also impressive, but what is the gyuki made of ? Flesh, even sasuke's chidori was able to cut it's tentacle off. The third raikage probably can tank a bijuu bomb and had the speed to evade the tentacles and the stamina to last. But that was purely a battle of brawns. So how is the battle match up versus itachi? Itachi has the firepower to kill him, he is smarter, he has the defenses to deal with the nukite, the only problem is the speed. Itachi had lower reserves than all his opponents, so I dont know why people act like this is something new. But you guys spamm the raikage being able to blitz around, when first of all, he is not as fast as his son, not even his son was blitzing around madara's susanoo like you guys claim he will and he ended up getting caught in genjustu. Killer bee is who , much slower was able to tag v2 4th raikage despite the " untouchable speed" . Speed isn't enough to win the battle. The third raikage CAN win the battle, but isn't anything like you guys claim. He is a close range fighter, where the chsnces of getting caught in genjustu are maximized.

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    • MIGshinobi Oh sorry that Uchihamasters who said the Raikage was a "dumbass". As for your other stuff. You are taking things out of context again. Nobody said he was untouchable and nobody said he wouldn't get caught in genjutsu. The only reason Madara caught A in genjutsu was because he was off guard worrying about Tsunade. Don't believe me check chapter 588, page 8 so unless there is someone's who's condition that the 3rd is worried about, that is a poor example. You make it seem like the 3rd doesn't havebthe firepower to deal with Itachi. The only thing that will a problem is Susanoo. But I'm sure if three attacks with Tsunade and A were able to shatter the ribcage of Susanoo, armoured or not, with the 3rd's very high strength, he's doing damage. Maybe not a whole lot but little by little it'll break apart. And Itachi can hide all he wants to but he isn't the one who can go 3 days straight fighting. Itachi will be degeated due to lack of chakra. He'll fight a good fight but he loses this battle.

      But it is pretty clear by this point that neither of us are going to budge. I'm signing off this debate now.

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    • MlGshinobi wrote: Next you will be telling me the third is smarter than tobirama. Look , the raikage has no intelligence feats or hype, so he is an average mind, it's that simple. Kirin is real lighting and black lighning isn't its a chakra based attack, so its dodgeable. Except kakazu had 100 years batt le experience whereas naruto was a 17 year old. Naruto was smarter than kakazu despite being far less experienced. Under your logic your grandama is automatically smarter than you just because she lived longer. You really think itachi hasn't fought more than 10, 000 shinobi in his lifetime? He was in anbu since 13. Battle experience is simply learning from combat while wisdom is solving problems you have no experience with. Battle experience and wisdom are quite the opposite.

      I mentioned kakashi because he also relies on his sharingan and he still used a smoke bomb, so no itachi can use smoke bombs too.

      The Third has Kage-level intelligence, it's that simple. There is no evidence to suggest otherwise. Kakuza was 91 yrs old when he died, assuming he was 13 when he became a genin that gives him 78 yrs of experience being a shinobi, not battle experience, that would be much less. So no, Kakuza didn't have 100 yrs of battle experience. Also, Naruto was not smarter than Kakuza, Naruto managed to deceive Kakuza yes, but that does not make him automatically smarter than Kakuza.

      I also said battle experience == wisdom(in battle), not intelligence. So get your facts straight before you try to accuse me. Itachi definitely hasn't fought anywhere close to 10000 shinobi, where do you get that from? Itachi was an ANBU from 11 and left the village when he was 13, you are mistaken again lol. Your Kakashi comparisons don't really make sense. The fact is, if Itachi is blinded by a smoke bomb, he won't be able to predict and therefore react to the Third's attack.

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    • ahem ... well hashirama, hiruzen both praised itachi as someone at very young age who used to think like a Hokage! so definitely itachi is a genius. also about raikage he has won most fights because of brute strength and that fight against 1000 shinobi was perhaps his last feat. he wasn't shown to have won just gain enough time for his comrades.no feat of him winning via intelligence is shown.also do you think that itachi can't figure his weakness like Naruto. also what will happen if hellstab gets reversed on him by YM. do you think raikage will survive?

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    • ^Just note, it was 10000 shinobi not 1000. Itachi is highly intelligent, I'm just pointing out that to be a kage, you need to have kage-level intelligence. Also, there is no real evidence that the Third only uses brute strength in battle. What is the Third's weakness?

      According to the databook, hellstab would just be blocked with YM, the YM can't reverse jutsu onto the target.

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    • ^^^ Once again not all kage have kage level intelligence, the fourth Raikage is proof of this.

      the fourth Raikage knew that Killer Bee was a target for the Akatsuki, but he didn't take any safety measures in order to keep Killer Bee from being taken, all he did was send some fodder ninja to guard Killer Bee from the people he knew were extremely powerful shinobi, he should have kept Killer Bee at his side instead of sending him to the outskirts of the village without any decent protection, that's just begging the Akatsuki to try to kidnap him. and even if he couldn't have Killer Bee with him, he should've at least sent his most powerful Jonin to guard him. I personally would've sent Darui's and Samui's squad to protect Killer Bee, they may not have been able to stop Team Taka, but they would've at least weakened them enough for Killer Bee to easily finish them off.

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    • Namikazenaruto9 wrote: also do you think that itachi can't figure his weakness like Naruto. also what will happen if hellstab gets reversed on him by YM. do you think raikage will survive?

      I wouldn't call the Raikage penetrating himself a weakness. Also, the only reason Naruto managed to figure a way to hurt the 3rd Raikage was thanks to Dodai giving him so helpful information. So the chances of Itachi figuring out that the biggest way to hurt the Raikage is with his own attack is 1/10.

      As for your comment about the Yata mirror being used to make the Raikage stab himself, I'm trying to figure out how the Yata Mirror is going make his arm turn in the position to stab himself. Naruto had to hit the Raikage's arm at an angle in order to make him stab himself. If it is a straight forward attack, it'll apparently deflect his arm back along with himself on the opposite direction. It is physics. If you are not familiar with it I suggest you read up on it.

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    • Uchiahmasters wrote: ^^^ Once again not all kage have kage level intelligence, the fourth Raikage is proof of this.

      the fourth Raikage knew that Killer Bee was a target for the Akatsuki, but he didn't take any safety measures in order to keep Killer Bee from being taken, all he did was send some fodder ninja to guard Killer Bee from the people he knew were extremely powerful shinobi, he should have kept Killer Bee at his side instead of sending him to the outskirts of the village without any decent protection, that's just begging the Akatsuki to try to kidnap him. and even if he couldn't have Killer Bee with him, he should've at least sent his most powerful Jonin to guard him. I personally would've sent Darui's and Samui's squad to protect Killer Bee, they may not have been able to stop Team Taka, but they would've at least weakened them enough for Killer Bee to easily finish them off.

      Are you implying that the 4th Raikage was not intelligent, despite being a kage? The fourth confined B to the village, that is taking measures. Also, the jonin posted close to B were too scared to help him. B took out Taka alone, he did not need help in that fight. Besides, what does any of this have to do with the Third's intelligence? The Third has kage-level intelligence, if you want to say otherwise please provide some evidence.

      The Third has black lighting, how will Itachi deal with that?

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    • the fourth Raikage by putting Killer Bee in the outskirts of the village makes it easier for the Akatsuki to both locate him and to reach him with little to no resistance. and please provide a source stating that the people were afraid of Killer Bee at the time of his capture, because at the time Killer Bee was a very respected shinobi who had control over the eight tails and therefore no shinobi in the cloud had a reason to fear him.

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    • ^Actually, I meant that the jonin posted by B were too scared to assist him in battle, because they thought the Akatsuki was attacking.

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    • Killer B has nothing to do with conversation and neither does the Fourth Raikage's intelligence. Please don't stray from topic.

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    • Yata Mirror(Hence the mirror part as it blocks and reflects attacks) would block most any attack, reflecting the damage/force back at the opponent. The Third has Brute Force, Speed, and Stamina on his side. But Itachi has intelligence, Genjutsu, and MS on his side. One Amaterasu touch and its over, one Tsukuyomi and its over, one small touch by the Totsuka Blade and its over. This fight can go either way, but the longer it lasts the more it is in favor of 3rd Raikage.

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    • Itachi > Madara > Sage mode Naruto > third raikage

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    • Indrashura wrote: Itachi > Madara > Sage mode Naruto > third raikage

      Now that is funny.

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    • AMATERSASU, SUSANOO, IZANAMI, TSUKUYOMI. VS SUPER SPEED. It is four good tricks to one so boom! Itachi wins

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    • @ItachiUchiha123

      Amaterasu would be sort of useless with the 3rd with his enhanced speed and reflexes.

      If Tsunade (although in her Strength of a Hundred mode) can break Susanoo's ribcage with only two hits, I'm sure the 3rd who's strength has been highly praised can do some damage also.

      Izanami is Itachi's best bet but I'm trying to figure out what exactly could Itachi would try to do with it to the 3rd.

      Tsukuyomi requires eye contact and the 3rd's movement will make it hard to catch him.

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    • Rachin123 (Moderator) true but you see he'll just make shadow clones until guy runs out of chakra

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    • Itachi doesn't have chakra to spare like that though.

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    • QuakingStar
      QuakingStar removed this reply because:
      wrong thread
      20:25, April 14, 2016
      This reply has been removed
    • Third Raikage vs Itachi, not Itachi vs Gai.

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    • Rachin123 wrote: Itachi doesn't have chakra to spare like that though.

      If he has chakra to do susanoo he has chakra to do this

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    • And it's obvious Susanoo takes a huge toll on the user. Shadow clones requires splitting your chakra evenly, so him making like 5 will take a lot of his chakra away. It is more likely he'd use Crow Clones.

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    • Rachin123 wrote: And it's obvious Susanoo takes a huge toll on the user. Shadow clones requires splitting your chakra evenly, so him making like 5 will take a lot of his chakra away. It is more likely he'd use Crow Clones.

      Good point. But is there any significant difference between the amount of chakra a shadow clone consumes as compared to that of crow clones? I thought the crow clones are just a variant of the Shadow Clone Jutsu, with the basic mechanism being the same.

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    • @Bakumatsu No the Crow Clone Technique uses crows who transform into the user. It doesn't require the user to know the Shadow Clone Technique nor divide their chakra evenly to make a perfect copy.

      Unless Itachi catches the Third Raikage in genjutsu, it will be over for Itachi. Itachi can't sustain being in Susanoo forever nor hurt the 3rd Raikage either. A prolong battle will be Itachi's downfall.

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    • Rachin123 wrote: And it's obvious Susanoo takes a huge toll on the user. Shadow clones requires splitting your chakra evenly, so him making like 5 will take a lot of his chakra away. It is more likely he'd use Crow Clones.

      My bad that is what I meant but how does he do those crow clones did he make a contract or somnifin?

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    • A FANDOM user
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