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  • AsianReaper
    AsianReaper closed this thread because:
    This thread was necroed awhile back and just flew under the radar but it's done now
    03:57, April 24, 2018

    Uchiha Death Battle Time! But first, let's lay some groundwork.

    • Shisui has both Mangekyō, and, to make it fair, Susanoo.
    • Sasuke is at the level he was during the Kage Summit, with perfect vision.
    • No databook stats. Actual feats or substantiated speculation (be able to back up any claims) only.
    • They have no prior knowledge of each other's abilities.

    I'm gonna have to say that Shisui takes this one. While it could be argued that Sasuke>Danzō>Shisui:

    • Danzō himself stated that he was holding back in case he had to fight Tobi.
    • If Tobi had no problem reincarnating Itachi but refused to reincarnate Shisui, that says a lot about his power.
    • Shisui would be too fast for any of Sasuke's long-range attacks. He'd close the distance and probably end it with Kotoamatsukami.
    • Sasuke would win a Susanoo-off, but they can't keep that up forever. When it gets down to CQC, it's over.
    Who wins?
     
    88
     
    436
     

    The poll was created at 09:36 on July 18, 2015, and so far 524 people voted.
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    • Shisui: Sharingan, Genjutsu: Sharingan, Mangekyou Sharingan, Kotoamatskuami, Susanoo, Body Flicker Technique, he can summons crows. Sasuke: Sharingan, Genjutsu: Sharingan, Mangekyou Sharingan, Tsukuyomui, Amaterasu, Susanoo, he can summon Hawks, snakes, Chidori, Kirin, Chidori Sharp Spear, Chidor Katana, Chidori Current, Chidori Senbo. Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi>Kotoamatsukami Susanoo=Susanoo Sasuke can summons Hawks and Snakes>Shisui can summon crows Chidori variants>Shisui's Teleportation Sharingan, Mangekyou=Sharingan, Mangekyou Sasuke without one hand.

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    • Shisui should take this one. Before his death he was regarded as one of the greatest uchihas of his time. His speed and usage of the body flicker far outclassed a common shinobi. Granted, Sasuke is a strong uchiha in his own right, but he would have trouble dealing with Shisui's speed. His strongest asset though would be his genjutsu, to the point where even his basic genjutsus could easily trap a proficient sharingan user, even forcing Danzo to use the izanagi to escape. As far as I know, Kage summit Sasuke doesn't have much in his arsenal to counter that.

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    • Shisui's genjutsu prowess made him the strongest genjutsu user of the Uchiha clan, a clan that possessed the Sharingan. While Sasuke was able to "break" Itachi's Tsukuyomi, I don't think he (or anyone else for the matter) could break the Kotoamatsukami.

      Taijutsu-wise, I'd give it to Shisui in speed, though Sasuke isn't slow at all, and might be able to even exchange blows with the opponent for some time.

      Ninjutsu-wise, Shisui and Sasuke should be tied in normal Fire Release, but Sasuke's Amaterasu and Blaze Release should give him the upper hand. In Lightning Release, Sasuke should win with Chidori and its derived techniques, but Shisui has Wind Release, which is superior to Lightning Release. With the Susanoo, both Sasuke and Shisui are proficient in mid-to-long range fighting (bow and arrow & chakra needles), so they'd be tied.

      Shisui wins.

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    • Trying something new here. Updated the original post to have a poll. Vote on that shit.

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    • Shisui wins this easy. Shisui's got Sharingan, Sharingan: Genjutsu, MS, Kotoamatsukami, Susanoo, Katon, Futon, Shunshin

      Sasuke has Sharingan, Sharingan: Genjutsu, MS, Amaterasu, Enton: Kagutsuchi, Susanoo, Katon, Raiton

      Shisui - Sasuke Sharingan=Sharingan, Genjutsu>Genjutsu, MS=MS, Susanoo=Susanoo, Katon=Katon, Futon>Raiton, Shunshin>Amaterasu (Amaterasu (Enton)<Lightning Armor<KCM=Itachi<Shisui).

      Kotoamatsukami is one-shot. If Sasuke somehow breaks out of the first Kotoamatsukami he would be exhausted and easy pickings, since when he broke out of Tsukuyomi he had help from the CS and he also had Oro's power added on, plus it was cast by a dying Itachi. Kotoamatsukami > Tsukuyomi therefore if he breaks the first he won't break the second, and if he does he will be dead on his feet.

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    • AnonymousBlank wrote: Kotoamatsukami is one-shot. If Sasuke somehow breaks out of the first Kotoamatsukami he would be exhausted and easy pickings, since when he broke out of Tsukuyomi he had help from the CS and he also had Oro's power added on, plus it was cast by a dying Itachi. Kotoamatsukami > Tsukuyomi therefore if he breaks the first he won't break the second, and if he does he will be dead on his feet.

      He shouldn't even be able to break the first one since, from my understanding at least, Kotoamatsukami isn't an 'illusion' like most genjutsu, it's more of a really powerful suggestion.

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    • Then 'suggest' Sasuke is in a coma or having a heart attack. Simple really.

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    • AnonymousBlank wrote: Shisui wins this easy. Shisui's got Sharingan, Sharingan: Genjutsu, MS, Kotoamatsukami, Susanoo, Katon, Futon, Shunshin

      Sasuke has Sharingan, Sharingan: Genjutsu, MS, Amaterasu, Enton: Kagutsuchi, Susanoo, Katon, Raiton

      Shisui - Sasuke Sharingan=Sharingan, Genjutsu>Genjutsu, MS=MS, Susanoo=Susanoo, Katon=Katon, Futon>Raiton, Shunshin>Amaterasu (Amaterasu (Enton)<Lightning Armor<KCM=Itachi<Shisui).

      Kotoamatsukami is one-shot. If Sasuke somehow breaks out of the first Kotoamatsukami he would be exhausted and easy pickings, since when he broke out of Tsukuyomi he had help from the CS and he also had Oro's power added on, plus it was cast by a dying Itachi. Kotoamatsukami > Tsukuyomi therefore if he breaks the first he won't break the second, and if he does he will be dead on his feet.

      If Shisui can win, he wouldn't do that easily. Sasuke is definitely better in Nature Transsformation (his Lightning Release is on prefect level- Chidori, Kirin, Chidori Sharp Spear, Chidor Katana, Chidori Current, Chidori Senbo, and his Fire release is as good as Shisui's). He is better in Ninjutsu (Shisui-Susanoo, Body Flicker Technique, Crows-Sasuke is much better in Nature Transsformation, Susanoo, he is better in Summoning technigue-Hawks and Snakes, and he has Amaterasu). Shisui can beat Sasuke in genjutsu (Genjutsu: Sharingan=Genjutsu: Sharingan, Kotoamatsukami>Tsukuyomi), he is faster than Sasuke. Sasuke'Susanoo=Shisui's Susanoo, Sasuke's Nature Transformation>Shisui's Nature Transformatio, Sasuke's summons>Shisui's summons, Sasuke's Sharingan and MS=Shisui's Sharingan and MS, Genjutsu: Sharingan, Amaterasu, Tsukuyomi, Snake techniques<or=Kotoamatsukami and Body Flicker Technique. Sasuke would win.

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    • If he could not beat itachi...he would not beat shishui

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    • Lion chakra wrote: If he could not beat itachi...he would not beat shishui

      Why, when Itach is stronger than Shisui?

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    • Minato 87 wrote:

      Lion chakra wrote: If he could not beat itachi...he would not beat shishui

      Why, when Itach is stronger than Shisui?

      CS2 Sasuke with Orochimaru's help lost to a blind and sick Itachi who was dead on his feet and wanted to lose. If you think MS Sasuke can beat Shisui who has both eyes in his skull you are dumb as hell. Especially seeing as all MS Sasuke did at the Kage Summit was spam his MS and end up as blind as Itachi in 2 hours, max.

      So Sasuke starts pissing out Amaterasu, which Shisui can dodge, then he tries Susanoo where Shisui will just match him blow for blow or just use Kotoamatsukami. AKA Sasuke gets one-shotted

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    • Loving the poll addition. Working nicely. @AnonymousBlank, I entirely agree with you.

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    • AnonymousBlank wrote:

      CS2 Sasuke with Orochimaru's help lost to a blind and sick Itachi who was dead on his feet and wanted to lose. If you think MS Sasuke can beat Shisui who has both eyes in his skull you are dumb as hell. Especially seeing as all MS Sasuke did at the Kage Summit was spam his MS and end up as blind as Itachi in 2 hours, max.

      So Sasuke starts pissing out Amaterasu, which Shisui can dodge, then he tries Susanoo where Shisui will just match him blow for blow or just use Kotoamatsukami. AKA Sasuke gets one-shotted

      In battle with Itachi, Sasuke didn't has Susanoo, Amaterasu, he can't summon Hawks, Blaze Release: Kagutsuchi and when he gets MS, he gets stronger Genjutsu and in that battle Sasuke didn't summons Manda (but Oro helped him), but I think MS Itachi is stronger than MS Sasuke. Sasuke was able to break Itachi's Tsukuyomi without MS, and in this battle he has really strong Genjutsu (but not as strong as Itachi's Tsukuyomi). Maybe Sasuke can break Kotoamatsukami like Itachi's Tsukuyomi (and he was able to do that without MS). Shisui's MS abilities is only Kotoamatsukami and Susanoo, Sasuke's MS abilites is Amaterasu, his MS genjutsu, Susanoo and Blaze Release: Kagutsuchi.

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    • Minato 87 wrote: In battle with Itachi, Sasuke didn't summons Manda

      Don't forget Manda died saving Sasuke from Deidara's suicide bomb.

      Minato 87 wrote: Sasuke was able to break Itachi's Tsukuyomi without MS

      You're right he didn't have MS, he JUST had CS2, which, if you remember, has Orochimaru's sage chakra/senjutsu. Pretty sure that kind of sh*t helps, especially against a sick and blind Itachi.

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    • AnonymousBlank wrote: Don't forget Manda died saving Sasuke from Deidara's suicide bomb.

      I forgot that.

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    • You do realize that if Itachi wanted, Sasuke would not have broke out of Tsukuyomi.. Itachi didn't even add time change perception to it that time. He was also not trying to cripple or hurt Sasuke badly. He wanted to lose, he wanted to die.. at the same time getting rid of CS and Orochimaru.. so why would he risk mentally shutting Sasuke down like he did in Part 1 if this was his last and planned out fight?

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    • Shisui takes this 1 simply because he can match sasuke in most of his things but he has 1 thing thatd 1 it for him. Kotoamatskuami.

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    • Lion chakra wrote: If he could not beat itachi...he would not beat shishui

      Sasuke didnt have MS then, so you cant use that as proof of shisui's strength

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    • KuroiToketsuHoshi wrote:

      Lion chakra wrote: If he could not beat itachi...he would not beat shishui

      Sasuke didnt have MS then, so you cant use that as proof of shisui's strength

      IMO with the MS he still could not win. Sasuke really could not beat anyone once he got the power. I am trying to think of a fight he won. He could not beat Killer Bee with a team of people, almost got killed by the 4th Raikage & Mei & Onki 1on1, barely beat Danzo with Karin's help in which Danzo was holding back, (IMO) Kakashi would have also killed him, lastly Kabuto would have wrecked Sasuke 1 on 1.

      We have to face facts...Sasuke can't fight...lol j/k. But seriously it is like he stopped using his brain when he got the power. (Full disclosure I did not like Sasuke until Naruto Gaiden and the a small amount in Shippuden)

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    • Lion chakra wrote:

      KuroiToketsuHoshi wrote:

      Lion chakra wrote: If he could not beat itachi...he would not beat shishui

      Sasuke didnt have MS then, so you cant use that as proof of shisui's strength

      IMO with the MS he still could not win. Sasuke really could not beat anyone once he got the power. I am trying to think of a fight he won. He could not beat Killer Bee with a team of people, almost got killed by the 4th Raikage & Mei & Onki 1on1, barely beat Danzo with Karin's help in which Danzo was holding back, (IMO) Kakashi would have also killed him, lastly Kabuto would have wrecked Sasuke 1 on 1.

      We have to face facts...Sasuke can't fight...lol j/k. But seriously it is like he stopped using his brain when he got the power. (Full disclosure I did not like Sasuke until Naruto Gaiden and the a small amount in Shippuden)

      Sasuke took the raikages arm and killer bee had to resort to escaping from him with a servered tail clone. Onki completely rekted him tho, he kinda forfieted mei but your forgeting. HE KILLED DANZO LIKE 20 TIMES danzo, who was kage level. Also using those examples means nothing because they arent itachi or have any past fights with him.

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    • Sasuke took the raikages arm and killer bee had to resort to escaping from him with a servered tail clone. Onki completely rekted him tho, he kinda forfieted mei but your forgeting. HE KILLED DANZO LIKE 20 TIMES danzo, who was kage level. Also using those examples means nothing because they arent itachi or have any past fights with him.

      Danzo was expecting to fight 'Madara' after so it could be argued that he wasn't going full strength. Also, how do those examples mean nothing? How comes Itachi is the only one that matters? The ones that matter the most would be those ones since those are the fights he has before he gets EMS.

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    • @Curse True(about danzo) Also because itachi and shisui can be compared because they have past evidence but the rest have no relation to shisui in any way. Its like saying part 1 ino would tie with prime madara because she tied with part 1 sakura.

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    • The reason I mentioned them is because of the criteria of the fight "Sasuke is at the level he was during the Kage Summit, with perfect vision" they so happen to be all the people he fought around that time.

      It so happens that IMO Sasuke lost all of them or would have lost 1on1. It to me exhibits his battle readiness with the MS. Which is novice...with just the Sharingan he used his brains more. Epic win for Sasuke versus Deidara. Sasuke versus the new team 7.

      As for Shishui he had to have unlocked the MS around 6 Giving him much more experience with the powers of the MS. That is the only way I can think of him knowing how many times he could use his ultimate genjutsu.

      So again, Shishui easy one.

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    • Shisui totally pwns dis noob

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    • Lion chakra wrote: As for Shishui he had to have unlocked the MS around 6 Giving him much more experience with the powers of the MS. That is the only way I can think of him knowing how many times he could use his ultimate genjutsu.

      How do you know how many times Shisui could use Kotoamatsukami? The crow and Danzō don't really count since they weren't the original wielder.

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    • current dimension jumping sasuke is overkill, ch. 699-sasuke is still overkill, EMS-sasuke would have it hard but i think he could win... everything below that is a win for shisui ^_^

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    • JOA20 wrote: How do you know how many times Shisui could use Kotoamatsukami? The crow and Danzō don't really count since they weren't the original wielder.

      I don't think he ever did, or if he did it would only have been once. His version had a 10 year regen period if I'm not mistaken.

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    • JOA20 wrote:

      Lion chakra wrote: As for Shishui he had to have unlocked the MS around 6 Giving him much more experience with the powers of the MS. That is the only way I can think of him knowing how many times he could use his ultimate genjutsu.

      How do you know how many times Shisui could use Kotoamatsukami? The crow and Danzō don't really count since they weren't the original wielder.

      Its stated shisui can use kota once a day per eye.(Total of 2 per day)

      @Lion Chakra You dont know when shisui unlocked MS, it was never revealed.

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    • KuroiToketsuHoshi wrote:

      JOA20 wrote:

      Lion chakra wrote: As for Shishui he had to have unlocked the MS around 6 Giving him much more experience with the powers of the MS. That is the only way I can think of him knowing how many times he could use his ultimate genjutsu.

      How do you know how many times Shisui could use Kotoamatsukami? The crow and Danzō don't really count since they weren't the original wielder.

      Its stated shisui can use kota once a day per eye.(Total of 2 per day)

      @Lion Chakra You dont know when shisui unlocked MS, it was never revealed.

      I thought he can only use the power once every 10years. I did not know he could use it twice a day. I made assumption on age based on this logic.

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    • Lion chakra wrote:

      KuroiToketsuHoshi wrote:

      JOA20 wrote:

      Lion chakra wrote: As for Shishui he had to have unlocked the MS around 6 Giving him much more experience with the powers of the MS. That is the only way I can think of him knowing how many times he could use his ultimate genjutsu.

      How do you know how many times Shisui could use Kotoamatsukami? The crow and Danzō don't really count since they weren't the original wielder.

      Its stated shisui can use kota once a day per eye.(Total of 2 per day)

      @Lion Chakra You dont know when shisui unlocked MS, it was never revealed.

      I thought he can only use the power once every 10years. I did not know he could use it twice a day. I made assumption on age based on this logic.

      The crow can use it every 10 years due to unknown reasons, most likely because its a crow, not a uchiha or a human for that matter.

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    • Exactly, a crow and a non uchiha transplantee can't use it once or twice a day like Shisui could. LOGIC people..

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    • QuakingStar wrote: Exactly, a crow and a non uchiha transplantee can't use it once or twice a day like Shisui could. LOGIC people..

      kishi-logic of course ^_^ but i think it has something to do wth regeneration powers, afterall, danzo with hashi cells also managed to shorten the timespan to 24 hours like the original owner ^_^

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    • the reason danzo had to use hashi cells to get it to the same level of regen as shisui is because he's a non uchiha.

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    • KuroiToketsuHoshi wrote: the reason danzo had to use hashi cells to get it to the same level of regen as shisui is because he's a non uchiha.

      i know... this is why i mentioned "i think it has something to do wth regeneration" ^_^

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    • if Shisui uses his Kotoamatsukami it goes to Shisui at very high difficulty if not Sasuke wins with low difficulty why because even though it was stated in the revolution ova that he was the greatest Uchiha in his time it was stated in that same ova that Itachi could surpass Shisui and like it or not five kage summit Sasuke beats ANBU Itachi who after obtaining mangekyo beats Shisui. as I said in a previous discussion Danzo beat Shisui without much difficulty while Sasuke in his fight with Danzo won particularly easily, and before you say Danzo was holding back to fight Tobi hear this. In order for Danzo to fight Tobi he would need to have as much chakra and eyes as possible Danzo knows this and in order for him to have the necessary chakra and eyes he would need to beat Sasuke quickly, holding back against Sasuke would do nothing but prolong the fight wasting both chakra and ocular powers in order for Danzo to even have a chance to fight Tobi he would have to rush Sasuke with everything he's got in order to beat him quickly and hope he's got enough chakra to fight Tobi, so he wasn't holding back to fight Tobi, he was going all out against Sasuke in order to even have a chance to fight Tobi.

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    • You speculated. We don't know that Shisui was ever surpassed by Itachi.. it was said that he had the potential to surpass Shisui and at the very least he is tied with him. Another thing is Sasuke WITH his EMS can't beat full health, deadly serious MS Itachi. So if Shisui is really tied with Itachi then Sasuke can't beat him.. Also we all need to have a discussion to see which rendition is more cannon/reliable.. the OVA's Shisui coverage.. or the Anime's Shisui coverage.. before we go any further.

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    • i think at this point shisui would win, because of his speed and simply genjtutsu prowess but i always wondered what kotoamatsukami did, we know from the anime it controls your thougths but if you are aware of that doesnt it lose its power or perhaps not, but how would you use it in battle when i checked the wiki page it mentioned simply inserting thougths but that in and of itself isnt very damaging albeit very useful. its not like tsukuyomi were you are trapped in your mind and cant move. There really isnt enough info on it for example every jutsu has a weakness but i dont even know the full extent and actual use of this jutsu let alone its weakness, if anyone could explain to me and provide proof of how specifically kotoamktsumi is used in battle that would be great :D

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    • QuakingStar wrote: You speculated. We don't know that Shisui was ever surpassed by Itachi.. it was said that he had the potential to surpass Shisui and at the very least he is tied with him. Another thing is Sasuke WITH his EMS can't beat full health, deadly serious MS Itachi. So if Shisui is really tied with Itachi then Sasuke can't beat him.. Also we all need to have a discussion to see which rendition is more cannon/reliable.. the OVA's Shisui coverage.. or the Anime's Shisui coverage.. before we go any further.

      he only needs to force itachi to use his abilities to large extends, i mean, sasuke in susanoo would simply need to force itachi into using MS techs which will cause him to drop in powerlvls severely... im not saying that they are similar in power, itachi with his two susanoo-weapons and his MS-genjutsu (and superior taijutsu)has hugh advantages but endurance was never one of them, and with EMS and sasukes large reserves he wont have problems in that part ^_^

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    • QuakingStar wrote: You speculated. We don't know that Shisui was ever surpassed by Itachi.. it was said that he had the potential to surpass Shisui and at the very least he is tied with him. Another thing is Sasuke WITH his EMS can't beat full health, deadly serious MS Itachi. So if Shisui is really tied with Itachi then Sasuke can't beat him.. Also we all need to have a discussion to see which rendition is more cannon/reliable.. the OVA's Shisui coverage.. or the Anime's Shisui coverage.. before we go any further.

      Prime Itachi can beat Shisui with Susanoo. Shisui has stronger genjutsu, but Itachi knows about Shisui's genjutsu, and Itachi has Amaterasu, Shisui can dodge Amaterasu with Body Flicker, both can summon crows, but Itachi has stronger Susanoo. Itachi wins.

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    • Sasuke will beat Shisui.everyone forgets that around the time period sasuke knows bout izanagi.just like all other main uchiha characters although Shisui the only one they never made known to know an read the stone tablets.as we learned from madara you can program izanagi to work in your favor after losing the fight.So for sasuke to win if he gets caught by Kotoamatsuki an gets slain he can comeback with izanagi an deliver proper blow to Shisui an more likely to win.Because1,he can’t use Kotoamatsuki often because Itachi stated it takes 10yrs to Be useable again So for Shisui personally it would prolly take hours if not days being its him Ann not sum1 else using it..2kotoamatsuki cannot possibly Be active still on a target after they been defeated so coming back2 life is like it didn’t happen.3 Kotoamatsuki prolly come above all Justus except a jutsu cast on ones self which is a counter measure loop hole no1 has thought of.Sasuke has more likely chance than any1 in uchiha to break through Shisui jutsu being that he broke through Itachi tskyuomi with a regular sharingan...sasuke wins

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    • Anyone who thinks anyone has a chance against Kotoamatsukami is crazy. All Shisui has to do is look at you and you become trapped in it and become his slave. The thing is one of the most overpowered god modding techniques in the entire series. Not to mention, the Sharingan's analytic capabilities! So you can't even run from his sight! Koto one shots everyone that isn't immune to the Genjutsu.

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    • @loneninja bro we gotta keep an open mind to these things cuz it’s one of d over powered god modding techiniques izanagi is another one on same level.itachi said every jutsu has a weakness.i done my research before this healthy discussion an yes Shisui can use Kotoamatsukami without exactly looking tho range is a issue for diff y’all but it can fuel ya statement but fuels mine twice as much..izanagi is overpowered because it erases an rewrite reality of a situation even death for onself or others.key factor is placing a genjutsu on himself .with the level of creativity in show y is it hard to believe you can’t use a an overpower gen. To counter another gen. ...Even if he was unable to do on spot cuz OF Kotoamatsukami effects he can program to use it before entering d fight.And when u die just like how blood stops flowing chakra stops flowing which will will cease the jutsu cuz gen. Purpose disrupts an alive target chakra. So sasuke would give it bout 1minute even tho he can program it longer but just so Shisui can’t stop sense no signs of life ..then will finish him off because sasuke is revived anew an has erased that reality of Kotoamatsukami in more then 1 way

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    • @Bsmooth. Incorrect. Sasuke won't use Izanagi since after Koto is cast, he becomes Shisui's slave. Why would Shisui allow his puppet to use Izanagi?

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    • First of all, since when can Sasuke use Izanagi in the first place? Why are you giving him an ability that he never used? Koto oneshots him, there is really nothing to debate. Koto worked on Itachi, so there is no reason on why it wouldn't work on Sasuke.

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    • @loneninja lmao it’s not bout letting him.sasuke can an would program it’s ise before engaging him an activate after end result.an remember Kotoamatsuki takes up a lot of chakra so that when Shisui can be most vulnerable to attack..Susanoo wouldn’t even need to be brought in this fight for either of em

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    • @Bsmooth

      Incorrect again. Sasuke wouldn't have programmed it cause he would have no reason to. It's not like Shisui is his sworn enemy like Hashirama was to Madara. Even if he did program it, what makes you think Shisui would kill him? Sasuke would become his slave. He has no reason to get rid of a puppet that he can force to do his bidding. If he wanted to, he can make Sasuke think he was a dog and make him live out his life thinking he was a dog. The Dp didn't even state prep time, so Sasuke could not have prepared it beforehand, this is basically a random battle to the death. So your argument is flawed. Also, Sasuke isn't even listed as a user for Izanagi in the Databook nor has he been shown to use it, so therefore he cannot use it. If we're playing make believe and giving people jutsu they don't have, then I'm giving Shisui a planet sized Truth Seeking Orb. Shisui then destroys the world. Good game. No but seriously, even if Sasuke did have Izanagi and prep time was allowed, he can only use it twice, and Shisui has two eyes and two usages for Koto. Therefore Sasuke, if he did have Izanagi, would go blind and Shisui easily kills him since most of Sasuke's abilities comes from his eyes. Shisui has enough reserves to use Susano'o and it's abilities, Genjutsu, and spam Body Flicker. He was also stated to be the best Uchiha of his time, this included Itachi. In the fight we got to see, Shisui was able to conjure Susano'o, use Susano'o attacks, cast Genjutsus, nature elements, and various other things. So you stating he doesn't have the reserves to stay a threat after it's used, is flawed. He obviosuly has a decent amount of reserves if he can do all that with Susano'o.

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    • @loneninja Bro how do you say “what makes you think Shisui would kill him? ” but also say “a random battle to death”.im sorry cuz I mistaken this tbh as a battle to the death so is it or is it not?.another another thing Sasuke when fighting Danzo when Karin pointed out on based an yelled what his powers was it stated that sasuke already knew bout the power an how it works before Karin even stated it Danzo states sasuke already knows bout izanagi an he was mad cuz he tricked him.even if it’s not Hashirama Shisui is a big uchiha we all praise so you would have to be prepared even if they don’t know each other’s abilities.Another thing mention up top no data books stats sir.u mentioning he not listed as a user is pointless because just cuz he hasn’t used it doesn’t mean he doesn’t know how to use it if that makes sense.the chakra depletion to an extend fair but Koto takes time after using first time to recover Danzo even said based on the time from the summit to when Obito intervene with sasuke We say bout to be fair 52mins tops.Now cuz he is that nice he will use koto fight will last bout say 20mins for a death match leaving a whole 30mins of recovery an wait mind u that’s 1eye used already then takes a minute he needs to activate izanagi an catch him off guard mind you that’s 19-29mins he has to survive with no Koto now when sasuke delivers most safest blow chidori stream(will do cuz it covers a radius)what will shis do nothing..an if he uses izanagi that’s 1eye blind n one eye unable to use Koto.for19-29mins while sasuke 1eyeblind othr is Amaterasu or genjutsu.(wiser2 get rid of genjutsu eye).P.S. based on show display only 5ppl they made clear have knowledge bout izanagi an that doesn’t include Kakashi or Shisui.not sayin can’t give to them but d fact they didn’t from show can feed my statement but I rather use statement above shi using it to feed my end result.sasuke loses battles from time to time but not death matches my famous saying.in a death match but if it’s not a death match I’ll leave it alone lol

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    • @Bsmooth.

      "Bro how do you say “what makes you think Shisui would kill him? ” but also say “a random battle to death”. I did contradict myself, but at the end of the day, it remains true. Shisui doesn't have to kill Sasuke to even win.

      "Shisui is a big uchiha we all praise so you would have to be prepared even if they don’t know each other’s abilities." It doesn't matter if Shisui is a big name. The DP doesn't give them prep time so they don't have it. In fact, the DP states "They have no prior knowledge of each other's abilities." This means Sasuke has no knowledge on SHisui, so your argument fails there bud.

      "Another thing mention up top no data books stats sir.u mentioning he not listed as a user is pointless" Incorrect. Stats are not jutsu. Stats are their statistical abilities such as Strength, Speed, Stamina, etc. Not the jutsu listed. Sasuke is not a user of Izanagi, stated by the Databook approved by Kishimoto. Therefore Kishimoto himself, maker of Naruto, said Sasuke does not have Izanagi due to him not listing it in the Databook or mentioning it in the Manga.

      "Just cuz he hasn’t used it doesn’t mean he doesn’t know how to use it if that makes sense" That doesn't. That's like me saying just cause Shisui hasn't used a world sized Truth Seeking Orb, doesn't mean he doesn't have it. It doesn't work like that. You don't get to give jutsu to people stated not to have it.

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    • First things 1st I do enjoy debating with you sir on this topic but you must understand that creator of this arguement just said “No databook stats!!!. Actual feats or substantiated speculation (be able to back up any claims) only.”....although u have great points to be taken which I commend you for..but lemme tell you something izanagi is a broad jutsu for uchiha just like fireball jutsu although it doesn’t state if regular sharingan can use it(based on Danzo arm example) but it’s safe to say anyway who has Mangekyou sharingan can use it you just got to have knowledge on it ,it can’t be exactly taught as proof in show..but anyone tryna teach another person to use will just loose an eye an that doesn’t make no sense.so it’s okay for me to say sasuke has capability of using it just like Madara an Obito an itachi etc.As a ninja y should prepare ahead of time for sumone your fighting you don’t know always having ideas just in case u encounter someone an that goes for both em it’s unfortunate the creator of this arguement really think bout that but

      .An saying that other comment is like saying “That's like me saying just cause Shisui hasn't used a world sized Truth Seeking Orb, doesn't mean he doesn't have it.” ..it’s a bit fafetch example bro but u would deff understand if I put it like (that’s like me saying) Madara just activated his Rinnegan but all of sudden for w.e. He summoning meteorites am deep forest emergence for first time.he has it but doesn’t know how to use it but it’s clearly possible if he just did it. So it’s like with this it clearly works like that.with this show I’m not surprised by anything involved with uchiha bs an I know you agree with me lmaoooo..

      The last thing bout this topic is.......is it...a death match or just a fight. Cuz if just a fight I’m not ignorant to say Shisui won’t win,but I say if it’s a death match sasuke just got this.so which situation is this

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    • @BSmooth

      Again you fail to realize something. "No Databook Stats" /stats/ stats/ /stats/. Do you know what Stats are? They are not jutsu. Izanagi is not a stat. You can use the Databook, just not it's stats. Therefore you lose the argument. Sasuke does not have Izanagi. Kishimoto says he doesn't. Doesn't matter what you say, or anyone else says. Kishimoto's word is law. Show me in the Manga Sasuke using Izanagi. If you can't, then he doesn't have it. If you say he does, then I say Shisui can destroy the world by breathing. I don't care how far fetch it is cause it's the same thing you're doing. You are giving an ability to someone not shown to have it.

      It doesn't matter if it's a death match or a fight. Shisui wins. I don't even think Sasuke has the ability to break out of Shisui's normal Genjutsu. He barely broke out of Itachi's. Shisui is better at Genjutsu than Itachi.

      Sasuke /does not/ have Izanagi. /But/ even if he did. He wouldn't have used it before the fight since Sasuke doesn't know who Shisui is, in this fight stated above. And EVEN IF he could prep it before the fight, Shisui would hit him with Koto. Sasuke would use his Izanagi. Shisui would just hit him with another Koto before he tries to prepare it again and makes sure he can't use it anymore. Game over. Shisui has two eyes. Two times he can control Sasuke. Sasuke loses whether by death or by being turned into a slave.

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    • @lonerninja please give me the exact definition on google of a stat...An your crazy it’s bout them not having knowledge of each other abilities not each other.Sasuke definitely knows him since he was a child so he deff would have used it.when he was a child right itachi an Shisui just finished sparring which I wish they showed sasuke came to the scene an Shisui was type cocky cuz he knew he was right but jokingly said he beat sasuke brother,sasuke argued that saying his brother wud never lose to anyone,but after address it on spot to itachi right in of both ppl itachi just smiled an couldn’t say he can beat Shisui u know how powerful a statement that is.an if that’s the only known scene with sasuke interaction with Shisui as a child an that’s his only memory u think he is not gonna be prepared with izanagi your crazy!!... Kishimoto word Is law..but it’s not even fair cuz he never gave him option of chance to use it in the show like Time fight with Kabuto they suggest it but then itachi was like nah I got something even better Izanami.. an to ya other statement even if sasuke barely broke itachi genjutsu who’s second best at that he still broke it,with a regular sharingan So with an enhanced Mangekyou sharingan I would expect him to break Shisui genjutsu if only barely.....u gotta read my last paragraph also he wouldn’t use Kotoamatsuki a 2nd time immediately it takes time to charge if not close to an hour which I’m being fair cuz I could’ve said 10years as itachi stated,but regardless would need still need time to charge so he would be forced to use at most izanagi rendering him with one eye unable to activate Koto for a while..He has what one other jutsu but it’s not enough more evasive if anything.......but please your definition on stats

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    • @Bsmooth

      Why do you keep making stuff up? First off, no, he won't prepare Izanagi even if he could BECAUSE THERE'S NO PREP TIME GIVEN IN THE DESCRIPTION. So prep time results in a disqualification. So if Sasuke goes in with Izanagi activated, he automatically loses.

      And even if Prep time is allowed WHICH IT ISN'T. He has no knowledge of Shisui's abilities ACCORDING TO THE DESCRIPTION. So if he doesn't know Shisui is powerful why would he go in to a fight with it activated when he has never did it before? Answer he wouldn't! Just like he wouldn't against Sakura, he didn't against Momoshiki who he viewed as a threat to the entire world, he didn't against Kaguya who was a threat to the entire world, and all the rest of his fights. Yet, you think he is going to for Shisui, who he doesn't see as a threat because HE HAS NO KNOWLEDGE OF HOW POWERFUL OR EVEN IF HE IS POWERFUL? Get real.

      You're right, Kishimoto's word is law. And Kishimoto states Sasuke doesn't have Izanagi. Show me him using it or Kishimoto himself saying he has it. Or else it's bull. I don't even know why you think he does. Just cause his brother had Izanami? Get out of here. Sasuke has Rinnegan, so by your logic, Sarada should have it too. Illogical.

      And no. Koto does not need to charge to use the other eye that did not use Koto yet. WHY DO YOU KEEP MAKING STUFF UP. There are two eyes. If you used the right eye, you still have the left. If it needed to charge for both eyes, then why did Itachi get to use Koto when Danzo used Koto with the other eye? Answer is they ARE SEPERATE EYES AND EACH HAVE A USAGE. Be smarter than a 5th grader and use your head.

      You don't know what stats mean? Oh my god LOL. Stats, short for statistics, means "The practice or science of collecting and analyzing numerical data in large quantities" Numerical Data. Know what that means? Numbers. Last I checked, Izanagi isn't a number, is it?

      If you still can't conceive such simple information, then I'll show you. Go on google. Type in "Naruto wiki stats", and you'll see the stat's for characters from the Databook. Guess what isn't on there. JUTSU. Smh.

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    • @NeedleJizo. Sasuke wins this, if Shisui does not have Koto. Sasuke's speed have been mentioned many times, able to dodge Raikages punch, and Killer Bee's attack. Dodging bombs near the second they explode. Sasuke is fast, he's just wasn't born in the time fo war to be mentioned of it, I would say, he's way faster than Shisui.

      Genjutsu skills, well Shisui was famous for it, but Sasuke also withstood Itachi's basic Genjutsu and as well as break out of Tsukuyomi.

      And about the Danzo fight, while Danzo was holding back his said powers. Sasuke came after fighting Kages, Samurais and gaining pain even in the cells because of Susanoo. The only healing he got was from Karin, who even after healing Sasuke with her special ability, worried about him using Chidori, since he's still injured even after being healed by one of the best healing techniques in the series. And whatever Chakra Danzo held back, wouldn't matter. Since the whole theme of the fight was Sasuke killing off Danzo(and thus reducing his Sharingan), so even if Danzo held back, he was still tricked into believing he had held back some power(His sharingan for example) only go realize that it was a genjutsu. The fight was of who's gonna get killed faster and not who's chakra gonna last out, so even if he was holding back his power, it wouldn't change a thing. Period.

      So with mastery with sword, shurikens and taijutsu, a close combat battle wouldn't be good for Shisui.

      And with Kirin, chidori(And it's variants), Amaterasu, Susanoo, Taijutsu, mastery with weopens and snake summons, Sasuke takes this.

      One thing before I end this, MS Sasuke has grown stronger than Shisui, it's a fact, agree or not, but if Shisui has his Koto then he might very well defeat Sasuke, since the Koto is another unexplained OP jutsu like Itachi's TB. Without any clarifications of it's weaknesses or why it didn't make Shisui the strongest shinobi ever.

      This is just my opinion, though.

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    • @loneninja I think you should listen to @blazerealease opinion too.Okay 2eye part makes sense.preparing it being beforehand I’ll leave be.however if he had possiblility of using izanagi (sasuke)du don’t believe he would use after just getting struck by fatal blow just asking.an I’m going to look at what you told me right now....he has no knowledge of his powers...He knows who he is ..if he knows itachi is strong but can’t say he is stronger than Shisui in front of both of them y can’t we admit in that sense he just may think Shisui is actually that strong to point more then itachi which would be enough..not that this is not in your favor but you gotta stop mentioning databook stats when the arguement mentions NO DATABOOk STATS it’s irrelevant to this situation so u can get mad at me much for having stuff because the databook factor doesn’t belong in this ....

      Side note:Another thing itachi explained to him pretty much the history an how to play by play how to use Izanami,not even cuz Itachi has Izanami..if he got explain how to use a power that’s a broad uchiha jutsu amongst Mangekyou users you think he wouldn’t be able to perform. Now I read the stats on sasuke even tho we’re not suppose to usedatabook it was interesting bro.i liked how they breaker it down.but back to the side note which I would like you to understand from perspective.thank you for breaking down definition of stats

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    • Ravenlot 27
      Ravenlot 27 removed this reply because:
      dunno
      16:19, February 10, 2018
      This reply has been removed
    • Koto one shots.

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    • @Blaze and Bsmooth

      I'm not going to take what Blaze said into consideration because Shisui does have Koto, so there's no reason to get off topic and argue if he would win without it.

      No I do not believe Sasuke would use Izanagi. Reason? He didn't against Kaguya, he didn't against Momoshiki. He didn't even use it when Madara stabbed him and was on the verge of dying. So why would he use it on Shisui, a guy he doesn't think is strong. If he knows him, so what? He doesn't know Shisui is better than Itachi or himself. BECAUSE HE HAS NO KNOWLEDGE OF HIS POWERS.

      Again. You don't know what Databook stats are. So far I haven't mentioned one Databook stat, so I don't know why you are seeing things lol.

      Itachi: Ninjutsu- 5 | Taijutsu- 4.5 | Genjutsu- 5 | Intelligence- 5 | Strength- 3.5 | Speed- 5 | Stamina- 2.5 | Hand Seals- 5

      Those are Databook stats. Stop acting like you don't know what they are, no one is that dumb. The stats in the Databook cannot be used, but you can use the Databook which means you can use Jutsu listing cause it's not under stats. If we can't use the Databook, have the maker of the thread change it from /Databook STATS/ to /Databook/. Until then Sasuke doesn't have Izanagi due to the /Databook/ not /stats/.

      Side note: Doesn't matter if Itachi told him. He hasn't used Izanagi and Kishimoto hasn't stated he can use it. If he did have it, he would of used it when Madara almost killed him before being saved by Kabuto.

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    • unless koto is restricted shisui wins.

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    • Shisui wins but Sasuke destroys with speed and jutsu power if kotoamatsukami restricted.

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    • If koto is restricted, sasuke's abilities overpower shisui's.

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    • BlazeRelease wrote: Sasuke wins this, if Shisui does not have Koto.

      but Sasuke also withstood Itachi's basic Genjutsu and as well as break out of Tsukuyomi.

      1) DP says Shisui has both MS. 2) Sasuke only broke out of tsukuyomi because he's Itachi's brother and koto is way beyond tsukuyomi @Bsmooth Even if Sasuke (for whatever reason) has izanagi, Shisui would just have to use koto again and Sasuke could either use izanagi again and become completely blind or become Shisui's slave

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