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  • So I'll just summarize here the things that I've already said in other places. Actually most of them are in this TALKPAGE.

    Gengetsu said that his Yin Nature means that he is a genjutsu user, but this doesn't indicate that all genjutsu automatically classify as Yin Nature, because an ordinary understanding of Gengetsu's statement is that Yin Nature is a fundamental nature for genjutsu users, simple and short. A crude analogy would be Kisame saying that his Water Nature means that he is a ninjutsu user (which is true), and then we conclude that all ninjutsu partly stem from Water Nature or solely from it.

    And for some reason, this statement from the databook, the proportional amount of genjutsu that involves "creating form from nothing" [i.e. Yin Release] is high, became the evidence that proved all genjutsu are Yin Release. Does that even add up? And when other information from the manga and databook contradict this claim, we simply write it off as Kishi's error. For example, Hashirama and Nagato do not have Yin Nature, yet they both used genjutsu. Circular argument at its best.

    Let us all hear your thoughts.

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    • Ever since I read that sentence in the early leaks, I understood it as "even without the Sharingan, the amount of Yin Release, which creates form out of nothingness, in genjutsu is high" or so. The original sentence below is hard to translate, though.

      例えば"写輪眼"ならずとも、[無から形を造る]という意味において、幻術は陰遁の比率が高いと分かるだろう。

      The important part is 幻術は陰遁の比率が高い:
      が高い means is high
      陰遁の比率 means percentage of yin release
      幻術は means on the topic of genjutsu or regarding genjutsu (は marks the topic in a sentence)
      Putting it together, it's "Regarding Genjutsu, the percentage of Yin Release is high". The sentence doesn't speak about an amount of Genjutsu, I believe. Because it's not 幻術の比率.

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    • Geg's rendition of the whole sentence for ref: For example, even without using a Sharingan, the proportional amount of genjutsu that involves "creating form from nothing" is high.

      How would your rendition fit into the whole sentence? Like this? For example, even without using a Sharingan, Regarding Genjutsu, the percentage of Yin Release is high. Or just give us your own version of the whole sentence.

      Also is your rendition suggesting that Releases can come in percentages? As in we can have a ninjutsu with low percentage of, say, Wind Release?

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    • Yes, it sounds weird, but something like that would be my translation.

      It's not a suggestion, but a long since established fact that the percentage of Yin and Yang can be changed. Elemental natures have nothing to do with this, though.

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    • Yes, the percentage of Yin and Yang, in sense of spiritual and physical energy, can be changed but that cannot be what Yin and Yang Release or Natures simply are, because that would mean everyone has both Yin and Yang Natures, which is not true. Two possibilities that I can think of are:

      1. Yin and Yang natures are the ability to use only/mostly spiritual energy or physical energy to perform techniques.

      2. Just as the basic natures are simply nature transformations applied to chakra to alter their properties, Yin nature and Yang nature are simply applied to spiritual energy or to physical energy, respectively, in order to alter their properties.

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    • As I said in the other discussion, there's something not explained in regards to Yin and Yang. So there's no point in discussing this further, since we're missing crucial information.

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    • NoJutsu wrote: Also is your rendition suggesting that Releases can come in percentages? As in we can have a ninjutsu with low percentage of, say, Wind Release?

      Well, what would be the difference between Wind Release: Rasengan and Wind Release: Rasenshuriken? The "percentage" of Wind Release infused in the Rasengan.

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    • ^ No, it's not a percentage thing, it's the amount of overall chakra, the percentage remains more or less the same.

      Percentage only comes into play when combining chakra natures with other chakra.

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    • TricksterKing wrote: ^ No, it's not a percentage thing, it's the amount of overall chakra, the percentage remains more or less the same.

      Percentage only comes into play when combining chakra natures with other chakra.

      The problem is that, the more chakra one puts into it, the bigger the Rasengan gets. The Rasenshuriken's sphere isn't bigger than the Rasengan's (Wind Release one of course).

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    • UltimaDude
      UltimaDude removed this reply because:
      Cause
      22:40, December 2, 2014
      This reply has been removed
    • ^ Dude, just no. Wind nature doesn't have percentage as far as the manga goes.

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    • Are you sure? If that were the case, all Wind Release techniques would have the same cutting power, provided the same amount of chakra were put into each.

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    • The cutting power has nothing to do with percentage.

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    • Well, Naruto could at first cut just a leaf, then a waterfall and now a giant vampire demon chakra sucking tree in half even, that's what I meant by percentage. You can always make the Fuuton chakra even sharper and thinner by grinding it more and more.

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    • Yes, but that's nothing to do with the percentage of Futon chakra, since such a percentage doesn't exist. Or, to calm NoJutsu down, there never was a percentage mentioned in this relation.

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    • Elveonora wrote: Well, Naruto could at first cut just a leaf, then a waterfall and now a giant vampire demon chakra sucking tree in half even, that's what I meant by percentage. You can always make the Fuuton chakra even sharper and thinner by grinding it more and more.

      Percentage of chakra, not percentage of nature. It doesn't even make sense for a nature to have percentage.

      Seelentau wrote: Yes, but that's nothing to do with the percentage of Futon chakra, since such a percentage doesn't exist. Or, to calm NoJutsu down, there never was a percentage mentioned in this relation.

      Dude, why the unnecessary snide remark? I didn't even say anything about wind with percentages.

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    • Recall the Tailed Beast Bomb requires a balanced ratio of black&white chakras (8:2). While I can't say what they specifically mean by black&white chakras (possibly yin&yang, maybe?) it does present the idea that chakras can be mixed in differing percentages. So my opinion, from either translation is that the ratio of yin release -which by definition "can be used to create form out of nothingness"- is high compared to some other form of chakra (which might be what affects the chakra in the victim's mind). It would actually make sense and those who are better skilled in yin release would be known as the "genjutsu type" that Jiraiya mentioned to Naruto before.

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    • A FANDOM user
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