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The fate of Obito's eyes.

  • What do you think should happen to Obito's eyes? Do you think that he should gift them to Kakashi before he disintegrates from Kaguya's attack, or do you think that he should let his eyes turn to ash along with the rest of his body?

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    • Yes! I've been saying that forever! Somehow Kakashi should get Obito eyes! He has to be useful in this fight! Even Sakura has contributed. Kakashi should too! If he runs out of chakra, Sakura should patch him up. Hoping Kakashi gets Obito's eyes... Don't think it'll happen tho, but I want it to...

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    • You do realize that if Kakashi got Obito's eyes in place of his he would only be able to use them for like 2 minutes before running out of chakra? Not to mention the eyes themselves are already beginning to go blind after all this time.

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    • wouldn't be surprised if either naruto's or sasuke's new powers (or both together) would be able to make the sharingan deactivate.

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    • Legendary Super Saiya-Jin 4 wrote: You do realize that if Kakashi got Obito's eyes in place of his he would only be able to use them for like 2 minutes before running out of chakra? Not to mention the eyes themselves are already beginning to go blind after all this time.

      You do realize that I just suggested that Sakura heal Kakashi if he runs out of chakra in my first comment?

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    • Darhumphump wrote: wouldn't be surprised if either naruto's or sasuke's new powers (or both together) would be able to make the sharingan deactivate.

      Ur smart. I was thinking one of them could transfer the chakra in Obito's optic nerves to Kakashi... but that's just a pipe dream. I want it to happen tho...

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    • thank you :) i don't know how it would get done, but between sasuke's unknown yin release powers and narutos new-found medical ninjutsu through yang release i'm sure Kishi could think something up. I would hope he wouldn't make one of the series' favorite characters suddenly useless.

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    • New chapter is out. Like I said, a pipe dream. Wonder what Kakashi will do now...

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    • Kakashi is still incredibly smart. He might not have the chakra reserves of anyone, but his brain is still a powerful weapon. If nothing else, he has to be there anyways. With Obito gone, it's literally Team 7.

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    • Malil wrote: Kakashi is still incredibly smart. He might not have the chakra reserves of anyone, but his brain is still a powerful weapon. If nothing else, he has to be there anyways. With Obito gone, it's literally Team 7.

      Don't disagree with you there...

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    • Obito's eyes have disintegrated with the rest of his body. Unless he sealed Kamui in Kakashi, or Kakashi can somehow use it without Sharingan then the technique is gone.

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    • NeedleJizo
      NeedleJizo removed this reply because:
      Stop notifications.
      08:40, August 6, 2014
      This reply has been removed

      If you built your ninja career based off the fact that you're a non-Uchiha who has a Sharigan...but pretty much got it snatched away in a second, how mad would you be?

      Little known fact: Madara whispered "none of your friends will believe you" to Kakashi as he instantly reduced him to almost irrelevance.

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    • Unless Kakashi learns Sage Mode, then he won't be able to use Raikiri anymore period. I do think Kakashi would be tight as hell as a Sage though.. above all though, I think Lee and Gai deserve Sage Mode more than any other since they need a replacement for the 8 gates technique.

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    • ItachiWasAHero wrote: Unless Kakashi learns Sage Mode, then he won't be able to use Raikiri anymore period. I do think Kakashi would be tight as hell as a Sage though.. above all though, I think Lee and Gai deserve Sage Mode more than any other since they need a replacement for the 8 gates technique.

      Kakashi doesn't have high enough chakra reserves to attain Sage Mode. Same supposedly goes for Guy and Lee.

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    • According to the Databooks, Gai has enough chakra reserves for it. Lee doesn't though..

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    • It apparently takes a 5th tier to use Sage mode, Naruto and Jiraiya are 5th tier in chakra/stamina

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    • Well...

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    • ItachiWasAHero wrote: According to the Databooks, Gai has enough chakra reserves for it. Lee doesn't though..

      First time I hear that Guy has high chakra reserves. High stamina, that's obvious, but chakra?

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    • ItachiWasAHero wrote: Obito's eyes have disintegrated with the rest of his body. Unless he sealed Kamui in Kakashi, or Kakashi can somehow use it without Sharingan then the technique is gone.

      With edo tensei nothing is really ever gone

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    • JOA20 wrote: First time I hear that Guy has high chakra reserves. High stamina, that's obvious, but chakra?

      Aren't they the same?

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    • Elveonora wrote: Aren't they the same?

      Not entirely. As we all know, base taijutsu does not require chakra input; no chakra is required to punch someone really hard. However, no one can punch forever, even in Naruto. This is because they run out of stamina: either they have burned through all the ATP in their cells available to provide energy, and need rest and carbs, or their muscles are too torn from use to function properly.

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    • When you think about it maybe Naruto and Sasuke's powers could give Kakashi full control and mastery over Obito's eyes. It would be cool but honestly I'm sick of the sharingan in a sense and would rather see Kakashi work without it seeing how it drains him fast but he puts in work nonetheless.

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    • @Elve, in the Databooks Stamina and Chakra are covered by one stat. As the first Databook explains clearly. There are translations all over the internet for it and Gai has a 5 in it meaning he is 5th tier in chakra and stamina. So yes, Gai does indeed have the capacity to become Sage.

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    • Edo Tensei requires Obito's blood. Unless somebody has it then it indeed gone.

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    • Edo Tensei requires DNA, not blood. Go to the Mountain Graveyard, find a skin flake, Edo Tensei and bada bing you got yourself an Obito.

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    • If that was the case, then it would have been easy to bring back Jiraiya like Kabuto wanted to.

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    • Blood stains and small samples work equally well; if there's DNA, ET can be used. And Kabuto could've ET'd Jiraiya from the 6PoP's weapons, he just never got around to it.

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    • ET wouldn't give you dojutsu like that, the biju said "a fake edo tensei Rinnegan" so not all powers are restored with ET.

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    • Not true, if that were the case then Itachi would not have been able to use his Mangekyo techniques, and Nagato would not have been able to spam six paths jutsu's like they don't cost a thing to his chakra either. The only thing Edo Tensei does is make people weaker, I would say Kabuto and Orochimaru's new Edo Tensei only brings people back at around 75-85% full power. Therefor Madara was that much stronger after being brought back from Edo Tensei to real life, with Rinne Tensei, if the rest of the Edo Tensei's were brought back with Rinne Tensei then they would be that much stronger too.

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    • As a Kakashi Fan I was hoping Kishi would somehow find away to give Kakashi both obito's eyes or maybe just the right one instead of the left this time. Even though the eyes belong to Obito, I feel Kakashi uses them much better. I mean Obito couldn't be touched throughout most of shippuuden (except by Minato and Konan) and when Kakashi figured out the link he just owned the kamui from then on. Even made an awesome combination with Gyuki against the ten tails.

      Overall I was disappointed coz I wanted to see what he would come up with if he had full use of the Kamui and both sharingan (with limited chakra drawbacks). But, I still have high hopes that he'l do something great with his own abilities.

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    • AwesomeRaikiri91 wrote: As a Kakashi Fan I was hoping Kishi would somehow find away to give Kakashi both obito's eyes or maybe just the right one instead of the left this time. Even though the eyes belong to Obito, I feel Kakashi uses them much better. I mean Obito couldn't be touched throughout most of shippuuden (except by Minato and Konan) and when Kakashi figured out the link he just owned the kamui from then on. Even made an awesome combination with Gyuki against the ten tails.

      Overall I was disappointed coz I wanted to see what he would come up with if he had full use of the Kamui and both sharingan (with limited chakra drawbacks). But, I still have high hopes that he'l do something great with his own abilities.

      If Obito gave him both sharingan Kakashi would have to hide two eyes and be blind...unless, he uses them to make EMS and maybe unlocks a new kamui ability.

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    • Yea that's why I put in brackets (limited chakra drawbacks). Was thinking with Naruto and Sasuke's Power ups they could find a solution to him not being an uchiha. Maybe a way to deactivate the transplanted sharingan as stated previously in the thread. I was just putting my input along with those ideas. But sadly it seems all of Uchiha Obito has been reduced to ash.

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    • Naruto did touch his back for a long time he could have extracted Obito's lifeforce then Sasuke makes a Yin release clone of Obito for Naruto to animate with Obito's lifeforce.

      Seriously I will find a way for Obito to live.

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    • then that isn't obito but a clone of him

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    • Obito is dead. Move on.

      Although, remember kids, this is Kishimoto. Obito (And ANYONE else) *can* come back. Look at the four Hokage. All four of them all get sealed away. All four of them just *happen* to get sealed away with the same technique. Orochimaru, that clever snake, figures out this insane way to get them back. But wait, in order to resurrect them you need a sacrifice. Oh wait, Sasuke, you've got SIX white zetsu clones hiding in your body. Perfect, because I'm going to need one for myself and four more for sacrifices. Don't worry about the DNA either, I've already got it on hand. In all honesty, I'm surprised they didn't resurrect someone else with the last body. Itachi could have come back AGAIN.

      Yes, I undermined my own argument, but no, I still say Obito is dead. He was the oddball of the five alive anyways.

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    • I wish some would stay dead

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    • You need another users Mangekyo to awaken EMS. So if Itachi decided to rip Shisui's eye out of the crow instead of killing it with the eye, then maybe Kakashi could have gotten the EMS.

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    • ItachiWasAHero wrote: You need another users Mangekyo to awaken EMS. So if Itachi decided to rip Shisui's eye out of the crow instead of killing it with the eye, then maybe Kakashi could have gotten the EMS.

      Mixing an Edo Itachi's MS with Shisui's MS? I'm not sure if that would work, since the Edo MS isn't really real. I don't know, this would be a first, so it's all hypothetical.

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    • There goes Kamui!*sobs*

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    • Archangel489 wrote: I wish some would stay dead

      I wouldn't say wish but I wouldn't mind. Like Guy could have died sacrificing himself using eight full gates. Tsunade could've died after healing the other kages. And others. Now those who aren't relevant I don't necessarily care about but it would be something the two could've been given a legacy over as well. But yes people never usually seem to stay dead in Naruto.

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    • I never said Itachi's MS, I said he could take the the MS eye of Shisui out of Itachi's's crow and switch it with the eye he got from Obito, just maybe Kakashi may get an EMS, therefore the strain would be damn near gone, he would have Kotoamatsukami AND Kamui but yeah it didn't happen

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    • I'm still surprised Kishi didn't give Kakashi Obito's eye, I believe Kishi's got something up his sleeve to make Kakashi relevant again.

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    • Darhumphump wrote: I'm still surprised Kishi didn't give Kakashi Obito's eye, I believe Kishi's got something up his sleeve to make Kakashi relevant again.

      Mabye the fact that a rage-filled Naruto, an exhausted Sakura, and a distracted Sasuke have the combined strategic sense of a tree frog.

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    • ItachiWasAHero wrote: I never said Itachi's MS, I said he could take the the MS eye of Shisui out of Itachi's's crow and switch it with the eye he got from Obito, just maybe Kakashi may get an EMS, therefore the strain would be damn near gone, he would have Kotoamatsukami AND Kamui but yeah it didn't happen

      Shisui and Obito being related is not proven everyone just kinda guessed on that, but Kakashi could have put both of Obito's eyes in the same socket to get EMS.

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    • That would not have worked, because it says only another users Mangekyo can be used to gain EMS.

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    • ItachiWasAHero wrote: Obito's eyes have disintegrated with the rest of his body. Unless he sealed Kamui in Kakashi, or Kakashi can somehow use it without Sharingan then the technique is gone.

      i wouldn't be surprised of sharingan powers are sealed in body

      madara could still use susanoo with out eyes so kakashi may be able to use kamui

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    • JOA20 wrote:

      ItachiWasAHero wrote: Unless Kakashi learns Sage Mode, then he won't be able to use Raikiri anymore period. I do think Kakashi would be tight as hell as a Sage though.. above all though, I think Lee and Gai deserve Sage Mode more than any other since they need a replacement for the 8 gates technique.

      Kakashi doesn't have high enough chakra reserves to attain Sage Mode. Same supposedly goes for Guy and Lee.

      wrong for one the only reason you need high reserves is because it overtakes your chakra if you do not have it. but if there was a way for kakashi to be protected from the over taking eventually his body would adapt and not mutate into a frog. for instance Naruto can use chakra transmogrification to adapt senjutsu to kakashi. i highly doubt they will think of this but he could do it. also Guy and Lee have enormous chakra levels. they just are not as good in ninjutsu as they are in taijutsu

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    • JOA20 wrote:

      ItachiWasAHero wrote: According to the Databooks, Gai has enough chakra reserves for it. Lee doesn't though..

      First time I hear that Guy has high chakra reserves. High stamina, that's obvious, but chakra?

      go to the might guy wiki on here it says he has immense chakra and stamina reserves from constantly pushing his body but one must relize that chakra is created by molding physical and spiritual energies together so anyone who has immense physicality is going to have immense chakra

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    • What the hell does Sage Mode have to do with Kakashi being able to use Raikiri?! The Raikiri is not a Sharingan jutsu, Kakashi will be able to use it without he Sharingan. Elveonora terminology won't work here people!

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    • Mrlmm0605 wrote:

      Elveonora wrote: Aren't they the same?

      Not entirely. As we all know, base taijutsu does not require chakra input; no chakra is required to punch someone really hard. However, no one can punch forever, even in Naruto. This is because they run out of stamina: either they have burned through all the ATP in their cells available to provide energy, and need rest and carbs, or their muscles are too torn from use to function properly.

      Wrong Taijutsu still requires the use of chakra to fight case in point when team Guy was fighting the mirrored versions of themselves they were making points about how there chakra was low Taijutsu doesn't use chakra externally but it does use it internally to influence the muscles more over chakra is a combination of two separate energies(physical and spiritual) you train them by either exercising or meditating. with out chakra you can not even move your body. normal simple taijutsu like a dodge or something like that do not active chakra molding but non the less something like a jump spinning heel kick would require the molding of chakra more over The general term for the source of chakra, the overall physical and spiritual energy an individual has, is called "total stamina" so when the data book states that Guy has a stamina level of 5 and Rock Lee has a 3.5 in stamina that means they both have a good amount of chakra. when sasuke and Rock lee were fighting before the chunin exams sasuke noted on how powerful Rock Lee's chakra was

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    • Archangel489 wrote: then that isn't obito but a clone of him

      if Naruto animated the clone then it would indeed be Obito

      just like wood release clones each have the full power of the caster

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    • Jashin Uchiha wrote:

      ItachiWasAHero wrote: I never said Itachi's MS, I said he could take the the MS eye of Shisui out of Itachi's's crow and switch it with the eye he got from Obito, just maybe Kakashi may get an EMS, therefore the strain would be damn near gone, he would have Kotoamatsukami AND Kamui but yeah it didn't happen

      Shisui and Obito being related is not proven everyone just kinda guessed on that, but Kakashi could have put both of Obito's eyes in the same socket to get EMS.

      they are from the same family so they are related but that doesn't matter because only brothers or as close as brothers are compatible enough for the EMS another thing that would work is if a member of the senju wore the eyes first

      the reason being is that the only reason uchiha go blind from over use is because they did not inherit the body of the sage. and as such they have a physical weakness so logic dictates that if a senju stole the eyes of a uchiha the eye would instantly be Eternal

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    • Actionmanrandell wrote:

      i wouldn't be surprised of sharingan powers are sealed in body

      madara could still use susanoo with out eyes so kakashi may be able to use kamui

      They aren't. The whole 'chakra mutating the optic nerve' thing that Uchiha have that let Madara use Sharingan powers without a Sharingan isn't present in Kakashi. It only exists in those who awakened a Sharingan of their own.

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    • Actionmanrandell wrote:

      they are from the same family so they are related but that doesn't matter because only brothers or as close as brothers are compatible enough for the EMS another thing that would work is if a member of the senju wore the eyes first

      the reason being is that the only reason uchiha go blind from over use is because they did not inherit the body of the sage. and as such they have a physical weakness so logic dictates that if a senju stole the eyes of a uchiha the eye would instantly be Eternal

      The Senju thing is only speculation, bro. It would only really work in a person who is both Senju and Uchiha simultaneously. The Senju would have to awaken the Sharingan themselves, with the optic nerve chakra originating in their own brain, and have that chakra meld with their advanced Senju chakra, for this to even have a shot of working.

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    • Actionmanrandell wrote:

      Wrong Taijutsu still requires the use of chakra to fight case in point when team Guy was fighting the mirrored versions of themselves they were making points about how there chakra was low Taijutsu doesn't use chakra externally but it does use it internally to influence the muscles more over chakra is a combination of two separate energies(physical and spiritual) you train them by either exercising or meditating. with out chakra you can not even move your body. normal simple taijutsu like a dodge or something like that do not active chakra molding but non the less something like a jump spinning heel kick would require the molding of chakra more over The general term for the source of chakra, the overall physical and spiritual energy an individual has, is called "total stamina" so when the data book states that Guy has a stamina level of 5 and Rock Lee has a 3.5 in stamina that means they both have a good amount of chakra. when sasuke and Rock lee were fighting before the chunin exams sasuke noted on how powerful Rock Lee's chakra was

      Taijutsu itself does not require chakra. Taijutsu is just hitting someone, plain and simple. One can use chakra to enhance taijutsu, as evidenced by Lee, Guy, Tsunade, Sakura, and Sasuke. But, it isn't required. That is why, back in part one, Sasuke was able to beat Yoroi, who could steal chakra, with the Lion Combo, as it didn't require chakra. It is also why an exhausted, tapped out Naruto was only able to punch Gaara to end their fight. This principle is also why Lee and Guy are so devastating, because they selectively use chakra for key moves instead of for everything; here contrast Lee and Sakura.

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    • Mrlmm0605 wrote:

      Actionmanrandell wrote:

      i wouldn't be surprised of sharingan powers are sealed in body

      madara could still use susanoo with out eyes so kakashi may be able to use kamui

      They aren't. The whole 'chakra mutating the optic nerve' thing that Uchiha have that let Madara use Sharingan powers without a Sharingan isn't present in Kakashi. It only exists in those who awakened a Sharingan of their own.

      You do not know that. also i must add that the sharingan was in kakaashi's body for what 20 years or something like that. so the chakra of the uchiha had to have mingled with his own chakra. no where do they ever say madara can use the susanoo with out eyes because of the uchiha chakra in his body

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    • Mrlmm0605 wrote:

      Actionmanrandell wrote:

      they are from the same family so they are related but that doesn't matter because only brothers or as close as brothers are compatible enough for the EMS another thing that would work is if a member of the senju wore the eyes first

      the reason being is that the only reason uchiha go blind from over use is because they did not inherit the body of the sage. and as such they have a physical weakness so logic dictates that if a senju stole the eyes of a uchiha the eye would instantly be Eternal

      The Senju thing is only speculation, bro. It would only really work in a person who is both Senju and Uchiha simultaneously. The Senju would have to awaken the Sharingan themselves, with the optic nerve chakra originating in their own brain, and have that chakra meld with their advanced Senju chakra, for this to even have a shot of working.

      Wrong. the eye itself has the uchiha chakra. and no where do they ever mention anything of what you said. the body of the senju is the body of the sage so thats proof it would work in there eyes to a higher level

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    • Mrlmm0605 wrote:

      Actionmanrandell wrote:

      Wrong Taijutsu still requires the use of chakra to fight case in point when team Guy was fighting the mirrored versions of themselves they were making points about how there chakra was low Taijutsu doesn't use chakra externally but it does use it internally to influence the muscles more over chakra is a combination of two separate energies(physical and spiritual) you train them by either exercising or meditating. with out chakra you can not even move your body. normal simple taijutsu like a dodge or something like that do not active chakra molding but non the less something like a jump spinning heel kick would require the molding of chakra more over The general term for the source of chakra, the overall physical and spiritual energy an individual has, is called "total stamina" so when the data book states that Guy has a stamina level of 5 and Rock Lee has a 3.5 in stamina that means they both have a good amount of chakra. when sasuke and Rock lee were fighting before the chunin exams sasuke noted on how powerful Rock Lee's chakra was

      Taijutsu itself does not require chakra. Taijutsu is just hitting someone, plain and simple. One can use chakra to enhance taijutsu, as evidenced by Lee, Guy, Tsunade, Sakura, and Sasuke. But, it isn't required. That is why, back in part one, Sasuke was able to beat Yoroi, who could steal chakra, with the Lion Combo, as it didn't require chakra. It is also why an exhausted, tapped out Naruto was only able to punch Gaara to end their fight. This principle is also why Lee and Guy are so devastating, because they selectively use chakra for key moves instead of for everything; here contrast Lee and Sakura.

      you clearly do not know how to read. the manga clearly states that even taijutsu users expend chakra. if a taijutsu user fights for say an hour after an hour they will be exhausted both physically and with chakra. like i said chakra is not used externally and as such when fighting a person who absorbs chakra the person can not weaken there taijutsu by absorbing chakra but they can still weaken them in general. if a person has no chakra they can not use taijutsu. punching a person is simply punching a person. but when using high level taijutsu like Guy and Rock lee you do indeed use chakra thats a fact. for instance when fighting Naruto Neji closed all of Naruto's Tenketsu. Naruto tried to fight with them closed but Neji told him it was futile because with out chakra Naruto had no strength chakra is required to do everything including basic movements with out chakra a shinobi can barely move only high level shinobi who have enormous strength can still move like when Kisame broke out if his restraints with only physical prowess, everyone remarked how strong he was with no chakra left. meaning only the most powerful of shinobi can do such stuff with out chakra. chakra is made up of two energies Physical and spiritual with out chakra you literally do not have enough physical energy to do anything. but like keep saying they still require chakra to do taijutsu hence the reason if a shinobi were to specialize in taijutsu and were to fight for 3 days after 3 days they would have no chakra left That is a fact thats why they eat food rations(to give them self extra chakra) when fighting Rock Lee sasuke noted how strong the chakra in lee's arm was and thats because Lee trains really really really really hard.

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    • Actionmanrandell wrote:

      You do not know that. also i must add that the sharingan was in kakaashi's body for what 20 years or something like that. so the chakra of the uchiha had to have mingled with his own chakra. no where do they ever say madara can use the susanoo with out eyes because of the uchiha chakra in his body

      I do know that. An Uchiha awakens the Sharingan because intense emotion causes their brain to produce a special chakra, which mutates the optic nerve, causing the eye to become a Sharingan. This chakra stays in the brain, and is likely the reason that Uchiha of high caliber can use Sharingan techniques without eyes. A degree of this chakra is also present in the eye, which is what allows transplanted eyes to function as Sharingan and, in Kakashi's case, become Mangekyo Sharingan in synergy with the oher eye in the hands of the original owner. The Sharingan chakra in the eye, though does not leave the eye. The key here is that Kakashi had the eye-type chakra that allowed usage of the techniques, but not the brain-chakra that made the techniques his own.

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    • Actionmanrandell wrote:

      you clearly do not know how to read. the manga clearly states that even taijutsu users expend chakra. if a taijutsu user fights for say an hour after an hour they will be exhausted both physically and with chakra. like i said chakra is not used externally and as such when fighting a person who absorbs chakra the person can not weaken there taijutsu by absorbing chakra but they can still weaken them in general. if a person has no chakra they can not use taijutsu. punching a person is simply punching a person. but when using high level taijutsu like Guy and Rock lee you do indeed use chakra thats a fact. for instance when fighting Naruto Neji closed all of Naruto's Tenketsu. Naruto tried to fight with them closed but Neji told him it was futile because with out chakra Naruto had no strength chakra is required to do everything including basic movements with out chakra a shinobi can barely move only high level shinobi who have enormous strength can still move like when Kisame broke out if his restraints with only physical prowess, everyone remarked how strong he was with no chakra left. meaning only the most powerful of shinobi can do such stuff with out chakra. chakra is made up of two energies Physical and spiritual with out chakra you literally do not have enough physical energy to do anything. but like keep saying they still require chakra to do taijutsu hence the reason if a shinobi were to specialize in taijutsu and were to fight for 3 days after 3 days they would have no chakra left That is a fact thats why they eat food rations(to give them self extra chakra) when fighting Rock Lee sasuke noted how strong the chakra in lee's arm was and thats because Lee trains really really really really hard.

      Thank you for the insults. They seem par for the course in my discussions with you.

      1. A lack of chakra could imply an inability to mix the energies, not a lack of the energies.

      2. It has been stated, in manga, that you can use taijutsu without chakra, since the Chunin Exams. Chakra can be used to enhance techniques (examples: Daytime Tiger, Hidden Lotus), or it can be left out completely (examples: Lion Combo, Dynamic Entry).

      3. There is an implied difference, therefore between stamina (the ability to be physically active, based upon the ATP contained in cells produced by the Krebs Cycle or Lactic Acid) and chakra. Someone out of stamina will be unable to fight, chakra or no chakra. They will be too injured by the advanced stress to the body and to exhausted to move. Someone out of chakra can still fight, assuming they have stamina. They will merely be limited to those taijutsu techniques that require no chakra input.

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    • The point still remains. Gai himself has enough chakra to become a Sage.. Databooks, Manga and wiki page say so.

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    • ItachiWasAHero wrote: The point still remains. Gai himself has enough chakra to become a Sage.. Databooks, Manga and wiki page say so.

      He doesn't need sage mode. He or Lee. They're find the way they are. They got the inner gates and plus just cuz you're strong doesn't mean you deserve to get sage mode. Sage mode should be rare. We don't need more people with it. Maybe a villain so that a good guy with sage mode could go against the villian with sage mode. Anyway yes Guy has great chakra and/or stamina but how do we know you even need high enough chakra to use senjutsu to become a sage. That makes no sense what you're trying to go at and I have no doubt if he would he could.

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    • First off, it was already stated by Fukusaku that you NEED HIGH CHAKRA levels to become a Sage. Secondly, the Eight Gates are Kinjutsu for a reason, they damage you and most likely shorten your lifespan. I never said they HAVE to get Sage Mode or they deserve it because they are strong(I don't know how that mind of yours came to that >_>), I said it would be cool and a great substitute for Eight Gates.. also Lee does not have enough Chakra to do it, and he does not know how to control his Chakra well enough even if he did. You totally misread my posts and added your own assumptions to them. Why you always do that I do not know. Can't you go somewhere else and harass and misread other people's posts?

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    • ItachiWasAHero wrote: First off, it was already stated by Fukusaku that you NEED HIGH CHAKRA levels to become a Sage. Secondly, the Eight Gates are Kinjutsu for a reason, they damage you and most likely shorten your lifespan. I never said they HAVE to get Sage Mode or they deserve it because they are strong(I don't know how that mind of yours came to that >_>), I said it would be cool and a great substitute for Eight Gates.. also Lee does not have enough Chakra to do it, and he does not know how to control his Chakra well enough even if he did. You totally misread my posts and added your own assumptions to them. Why you always do that I do not know. Can't you go somewhere else and harass and misread other people's posts?

      Harassing you. Not the slightest. You joined thus thread and put your opinion so expect to have people comment. Anyways I'm not saying you said that they deserve it but the way you make it seem seems like your saying that sorry if I confused you. Sage mode could be a great substitute but come on its not like many even use eight gates so it really shouldn't matter they both give great prowess to you but its what you would like. Secondly where does it say Lee has low chakra supply? He can't use ninjutsu or genjutsu. That doesn't mean he doesn't have high chakra. And your right about Fukasaku stating that you need high chakra so I'll give you that. And I can go anywhere on this wiki if I want including this.

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    • Lee does not have high ENOUGH chakra supply. I never said he had low chakra supply, again.. read the comment more carefully.

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    • ItachiWasAHero wrote: Lee does not have high ENOUGH chakra supply. I never said he had low chakra supply, again.. read the comment more carefully.

      You don't know what amount of chakra he has. But if you go with the stats which in my opinion is fishy then he's has good but not high. But its not like the stats keep up to date never mind how messed up they are. IMO Lee has really good chakra and if he wanted to he'd probably could do it. Ever her of a first time for everything.

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    • ItachiWasAHero
      ItachiWasAHero removed this reply because:
      harassment
      06:02, August 3, 2014
      This reply has been removed

      Stop with the Sage Mode! This is just like the 'Naruto needs a Rinnegan' argument, an unnecessary power up just for kicks. The two are in the IT for a moment, and once Kaguya is sealed the war ends. Why do they even need it?

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    • Mrlmm0605 wrote:

      Actionmanrandell wrote:

      You do not know that. also i must add that the sharingan was in kakaashi's body for what 20 years or something like that. so the chakra of the uchiha had to have mingled with his own chakra. no where do they ever say madara can use the susanoo with out eyes because of the uchiha chakra in his body

      I do know that. An Uchiha awakens the Sharingan because intense emotion causes their brain to produce a special chakra, which mutates the optic nerve, causing the eye to become a Sharingan. This chakra stays in the brain, and is likely the reason that Uchiha of high caliber can use Sharingan techniques without eyes. A degree of this chakra is also present in the eye, which is what allows transplanted eyes to function as Sharingan and, in Kakashi's case, become Mangekyo Sharingan in synergy with the oher eye in the hands of the original owner. The Sharingan chakra in the eye, though does not leave the eye. The key here is that Kakashi had the eye-type chakra that allowed usage of the techniques, but not the brain-chakra that made the techniques his own.

      all of what you said was assumptions aside from how the sharingan is created you can not in any way shape or form say that the chakra leaves the eye. i can disprove that based on the fact the energy of the eye must mold with his body so that he can actually use the eye they are connected

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    • ItachiWasAHero
      ItachiWasAHero removed this reply because:
      harassment
      06:01, August 3, 2014
      This reply has been removed

      Mrlmm0605 wrote: Stop with the Sage Mode! This is just like the 'Naruto needs a Rinnegan' argument, an unnecessary power up just for kicks. The two are in the IT for a moment, and once Kaguya is sealed the war ends. Why do they even need it?

      That's what I'm saying. @ItachiWasAHero If you want to talk about how bad you want Guy to have sage mode make a thread or forum on that. Its worthless here.

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    • Thank you for the insults. They seem par for the course in my discussions with you.

      1. A lack of chakra could imply an inability to mix the energies, not a lack of the energies.

      2. It has been stated, in manga, that you can use taijutsu without chakra, since the Chunin Exams. Chakra can be used to enhance techniques (examples: Daytime Tiger, Hidden Lotus), or it can be left out completely (examples: Lion Combo, Dynamic Entry).

      3. There is an implied difference, therefore between stamina (the ability to be physically active, based upon the ATP contained in cells produced by the Krebs Cycle or Lactic Acid) and chakra. Someone out of stamina will be unable to fight, chakra or no chakra. They will be too injured by the advanced stress to the body and to exhausted to move. Someone out of chakra can still fight, assuming they have stamina. They will merely be limited to those taijutsu techniques that require no chakra input. </div>


      you keep denying the facts. they have said that you still USE CHAKRA WHEN USING TAIJUTSU thats a freaking fact. stop denying it. there is no ifs ands or buts about it. all shinobi expend chakra when they fight even if it is taijutsu how many times in the manga and anime have a taijutsu fighter been fighting and eventually they are low on chakra even Guy said so in the war. it is a fact over use of the body will extinguish chakra

      also the data book specifically lumps regular stamina and chakra into one category if the data book states that guy has a 5 in stamina and rock lee has a 3.5 that means they have powerful chakra.

      you keep going on about Oh taijutsu doesn't use chakra when doing taijutsu but thats simply false. any movement done will expend chakra even if it is only slightly that is a fact. and more over thats why taijutsu specialists are so powerful because instead of using their chakra for ninjutsu they use it to develop powerful taijutsu when team guy were fighting there mirrored self when they all went after gaara to save him guy said he was low on chakra

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    • ItachiWasAHero wrote: Lee does not have high ENOUGH chakra supply. I never said he had low chakra supply, again.. read the comment more carefully.

      the data books put chakra and stamina into one reading if a person has a 5 in stamina that means they have high levels of chakra now back to the subject orochimaru has 3.5 in stamina(same as rock lee) and he has sage mode which proves you wrong

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    • Actionmanrandell wrote: you keep denying the facts. they have said that you still USE CHAKRA WHEN USING TAIJUTSU thats a freaking fact. stop denying it. there is no ifs ands or buts about it. all shinobi expend chakra when they fight even if it is taijutsu how many times in the manga and anime have a taijutsu fighter been fighting and eventually they are low on chakra even Guy said so in the war. it is a fact over use of the body will extinguish chakra also the data book specifically lumps regular stamina and chakra into one category if the data book states that guy has a 5 in stamina and rock lee has a 3.5 that means they have powerful chakra.

      Go and read Ebisu's lesson to Naruto after the preliminaries for the third round of the Chunin Exam ended.
      Everyone has a physical parameter known as "total stamina", which is used for every move. Using taijutsu consumes total stamina with no waste, since all that's to consume is physical energy. When one uses chakra, however, there may be some issues with chakra control, which means that there will be a waste, like it was for Naruto back then since he had little to no chakra control. Basically, chakra=total stamina only when the shinobi in question has perfect chakra control, like Sakura and every other medical-nin.

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    • Actionmanrandell wrote:

      you keep denying the facts. they have said that you still USE CHAKRA WHEN USING TAIJUTSU thats a freaking fact. stop denying it. there is no ifs ands or buts about it. all shinobi expend chakra when they fight even if it is taijutsu how many times in the manga and anime have a taijutsu fighter been fighting and eventually they are low on chakra even Guy said so in the war. it is a fact over use of the body will extinguish chakra

      also the data book specifically lumps regular stamina and chakra into one category if the data book states that guy has a 5 in stamina and rock lee has a 3.5 that means they have powerful chakra.

      you keep going on about Oh taijutsu doesn't use chakra when doing taijutsu but thats simply false. any movement done will expend chakra even if it is only slightly that is a fact. and more over thats why taijutsu specialists are so powerful because instead of using their chakra for ninjutsu they use it to develop powerful taijutsu when team guy were fighting there mirrored self when they all went after gaara to save him guy said he was low on chakra

      Guy being out of chakra after a fight does not prove your point. Guy uses chakra-enhanced taijutsu, such as Daytime Tiger, Night Guy, and other techniques of that nature. OF COURSE HE WOULD BE OUT OF CHAKRA. Basic taijutsu, the act of using martial arts or the body's own physical properties, does not use chakra. Nor does movement. If these were the case, Kakashi would never have been able to do ANYTHING after getting the Sharingan, because of his low reserves, and Sasuke wouldn't have beaten Yoroi in the Chunin prelims, and Gaara would've destroyed Konoha, and several ninja would've just laid down and died during the war because of an inability to do anything practical. None of this happened in the manga I'm reading. The version of Naruto you seem to be reading may well have all of this occurring, but if so, discuss that crazy manga on another wiki.

      In fact, this very wiki, edited by people with much greater knowledge than I, agrees with me. From the Taijutsu page, and I quote:

      "Taijutsu is executed by directly accessing the user's physical and mental energies, relying on the stamina and strength gained through training. It typically does not require chakra, though chakra may be used to enhance its techniques."

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    • JOA20 wrote:

      Actionmanrandell wrote: you keep denying the facts. they have said that you still USE CHAKRA WHEN USING TAIJUTSU thats a freaking fact. stop denying it. there is no ifs ands or buts about it. all shinobi expend chakra when they fight even if it is taijutsu how many times in the manga and anime have a taijutsu fighter been fighting and eventually they are low on chakra even Guy said so in the war. it is a fact over use of the body will extinguish chakra also the data book specifically lumps regular stamina and chakra into one category if the data book states that guy has a 5 in stamina and rock lee has a 3.5 that means they have powerful chakra.

      Go and read Ebisu's lesson to Naruto after the preliminaries for the third round of the Chunin Exam ended.
      Everyone has a physical parameter known as "total stamina", which is used for every move. Using taijutsu consumes total stamina with no waste, since all that's to consume is physical energy. When one uses chakra, however, there may be some issues with chakra control, which means that there will be a waste, like it was for Naruto back then since he had little to no chakra control. Basically, chakra=total stamina only when the shinobi in question has perfect chakra control, like Sakura and every other medical-nin.

      that makes absolutely no sense because chakra is half physical energy so doing anything that expends physical energy should expend chakra. if thats what it says then kishimoto made a plot hole.

      plus there have been multiple times in the entirety of Naruto where both Guy and Lee were low on chakra where they literally say i am low on chakra

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    • Actionmanrandell wrote:

      JOA20 wrote:

      Actionmanrandell wrote: you keep denying the facts. they have said that you still USE CHAKRA WHEN USING TAIJUTSU thats a freaking fact. stop denying it. there is no ifs ands or buts about it. all shinobi expend chakra when they fight even if it is taijutsu how many times in the manga and anime have a taijutsu fighter been fighting and eventually they are low on chakra even Guy said so in the war. it is a fact over use of the body will extinguish chakra also the data book specifically lumps regular stamina and chakra into one category if the data book states that guy has a 5 in stamina and rock lee has a 3.5 that means they have powerful chakra.

      Go and read Ebisu's lesson to Naruto after the preliminaries for the third round of the Chunin Exam ended.
      Everyone has a physical parameter known as "total stamina", which is used for every move. Using taijutsu consumes total stamina with no waste, since all that's to consume is physical energy. When one uses chakra, however, there may be some issues with chakra control, which means that there will be a waste, like it was for Naruto back then since he had little to no chakra control. Basically, chakra=total stamina only when the shinobi in question has perfect chakra control, like Sakura and every other medical-nin.

      that makes absolutely no sense because chakra is half physical energy so doing anything that expends physical energy should expend chakra. if thats what it says then kishimoto made a plot hole.

      plus there have been multiple times in the entirety of Naruto where both Guy and Lee were low on chakra where they literally say i am low on chakra

      ops accidently replied to my own. owell. not to mention when Naruto and neji fought in the chunin exams neji pushed all his tenketsu and Neji told him it was futile to try to fight because he could no longer mold chakra and at that time it was before he learn rasengan so at that time he was mostly using taijutsu. the only ninjutsu he had was shadow clone and multi shadow clone. yet he could barely move because his chakra network was closed. so i am calling Plot hole

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    • Actionmanrandell wrote:

      all of what you said was assumptions aside from how the sharingan is created you can not in any way shape or form say that the chakra leaves the eye. i can disprove that based on the fact the energy of the eye must mold with his body so that he can actually use the eye they are connected

      For the love of Kishimoto, man, really. The whole reason the Uchiha have the Sharingan and the other clans don't is because only they can produce the special chakra needed to create and properly utilize the dojutsu. The reason that Kakashi's reserves sucked after getting Obito's eye was because he did not have this chakra. His reserves never stopped sucking, so he never got this chakra. He could use the eye because Rin surgically connected his optic nerve to the eye. Thus, his optic nerve was never mutated by the special chakra he never had, so he could only use techniques inherent in the eye, while he had the eye itself.

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    • Stop writing in capitals, that's the same as screaming on the web. @Action, using taijutsu does consume chakra, yes, since chakra is made from physical and spiritual energy alike. But I have to remind you that there is no sheer taijutsu, every shinobi uses chakra to speed up their movements through the Body Flicker technique. Guy and Lee even use the Eight Gates, which take a huge toll on the user's body, so of course their stamina would be drained pretty fast. My point is, chakra=total stamina only when there's perfect chakra control.

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    • Sorry bout the caps, some of that is my hitting caps lock instead of shift and not noticing because I'm still typing. Some of that is emphasizing a key point, since I don't know how to underline in wikiformat. If anyone was offended, I apologize.

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    • Actionmanrandell wrote:

      ItachiWasAHero wrote: Lee does not have high ENOUGH chakra supply. I never said he had low chakra supply, again.. read the comment more carefully.

      the data books put chakra and stamina into one reading if a person has a 5 in stamina that means they have high levels of chakra now back to the subject orochimaru has 3.5 in stamina(same as rock lee) and he has sage mode which proves you wrong

      Orochimaru had a 3.5 and he did NOT have sage mode as his body couldn't handle it. YOU are wrong.

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    • The point about stamina is that stamina is a real-world term, used to explain (in real-world terms) the base amount of energy a person has. If you run a mile and are really tired afterwards, you are out of stamina. Chakra, as I understand it, can be used to increase stamina artificially, allowing one to run faster and farther without feeling drained. Hence, though the two are different, they are related in the context of Naruto.

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    • Mrlmm0605 wrote: Blood stains and small samples work equally well; if there's DNA, ET can be used. And Kabuto could've ET'd Jiraiya from the 6PoP's weapons, he just never got around to it.

      He could not. Even though they still had plenty of Jiraiya's DNA, Kabuto also noted that he would be crushed by water pressure, before reaching Jiraiya, in order to preform IWR

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    • It is hinted that Pain's weapons might have had enough blood on them, and they were left over from the Invasion of Pain.

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    • Obito had the Six Paths Chakra Rods from the invasion of pain somehow and wouldn't give them up.. Kabuto hinted at it.

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    • ItachiWasAHero wrote:

      That would not have worked, because it says only another users Mangekyo can be used to gain EMS.

      EMS is gained "By transplanting the Mangekyō Sharingan of an Uchiha with strong blood ties to the recipient — ideally a sibling" who has stronger blood ties to you than yourself?

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    • Actionmanrandell wrote:

      Archangel489 wrote: then that isn't obito but a clone of him

      if Naruto animated the clone then it would indeed be Obito

      just like wood release clones each have the full power of the caster

      No, not quite its more like Edo Tensei but without the immortality.

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    • Officialkamuiblade wrote: What the hell does Sage Mode have to do with Kakashi being able to use Raikiri?! The Raikiri is not a Sharingan jutsu, Kakashi will be able to use it without he Sharingan. Elveonora terminology won't work here people!

      The speed at which the Raikiri must be done, combined with the fact that the user must run in a straight line, causes a tunnel vision-like effect for the user. This allows the enemy to easily counter the attack, making it a potentially lethal move for the user. Though this drawback would seem to make learning the technique fairly pointless, Kakashi was able to avoid the drawback because of his Sharingan, which takes in every detail, regardless of how fast the user is moving. some people think Kakashi will learn SM to counter these drawbacks since he no longer has the Sharingan.

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    • you can't take the same damn mangekyo and switch it with the other eye. that won't change anything because they are both the original eyes of the user.

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    • It's never said that you can't do that it just wouldn't give you an advanced ability 'cause you would already have all the abilities of those eyes.

      11

      1

      1

      12

      12

      with 1 being your sharingan 2 being the other uchiha's

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    • Jashin Uchiha wrote:

      ItachiWasAHero wrote: That would not have worked, because it says only another users Mangekyo can be used to gain EMS.

      EMS is gained "By transplanting the Mangekyō Sharingan of an Uchiha with strong blood ties to the recipient — ideally a sibling" who has stronger blood ties to you than yourself?

      The point is that EMS is the result of two different MS overlapping with each other. Not to mention it's unknown wheter one can transplant a right eye in one's left eye socket, or vice versa.

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    • It would not make it Eternal.. unless it is stated directly then it won't. You are inserting speculation as fact Jashin Uchih..

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    • without the Sharingan the copy ninja won't be the copy ninja HE NEEDS OBITO'S EYES BACK OR AT LEAST SOMEONE'S SHARINGAN

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    • Yolo Swaggins 420 wrote: without the Sharingan the copy ninja won't be the copy ninja HE NEEDS OBITO'S EYES BACK OR AT LEAST SOMEONE'S SHARINGAN

      Calm down he can have Sasuke's then Naruto can heal Sasuke's eye so he still has a sharingan.

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    • ItachiWasAHero wrote: It would not make it Eternal.. unless it is stated directly then it won't. You are inserting speculation as fact Jashin Uchiha.

      Unless it is stated directly that something wont work there is a chance for it to happen.

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    • Jashin Uchiha wrote:

      Yolo Swaggins 420 wrote: without the Sharingan the copy ninja won't be the copy ninja HE NEEDS OBITO'S EYES BACK OR AT LEAST SOMEONE'S SHARINGAN

      Calm down he can have Sasuke's then Naruto can heal Sasuke's eye so he still has a sharingan.

      i hope he gets the Sharingan again because the Copy Ninja is now just the Ninja

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    • He still has the 10000+ jutsu he already copied.

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    • obito was pretty much invincible with both eyes

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    • Yes the invincible one died...

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    • Archangel489 wrote: obito was pretty much invincible with both eyes

      Yeah, he could've been a good support for Naruto and Sasuke to seal Kaguya, just as Kakashi said.

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    • Officialkamuiblade wrote: What the hell does Sage Mode have to do with Kakashi being able to use Raikiri?! The Raikiri is not a Sharingan jutsu, Kakashi will be able to use it without he Sharingan. Elveonora terminology won't work here people!

      Although Raikiri is not a sharingan jutsu it is incomplete without it. Due to the speed at which the user is travelling when using raikiri, they experience tunnel vision. This drawback was primarily solved when Kakashi obtained obito's sharingan which allowed him to see clearly when executing the raikiri.

      Sage mode can also solve this problem because sage users are adept in sensing. An example of this is naruto defeating the 3rd Raikage using sage mode to dodge his attack then counterattack all in a matter of milliseconds.

      Therefore if Kakashi had sage mode he could detect any counter attacks coming towards him even with tunnel vision, although I highly doubt the possibility of him becoming a sage.

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    • Seems like people don't want to use their brains around here AwesomeRaikiri91 you're one of the only ones who can see why I said Sage Mode would be good for him.

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    • Half the time Kakashi uses Lightning Cutter, he's not running at breakneck speed. Usually for a quick, well placed stab. He doesn't need the Sharingan for that, he's got Anbu/Jōnin level reflexes for that.

      And not just anyone becomes a Sage. What could possibly be more likely is Kakashi finally figuring out how to combine his Lightning Release and his Rasengan together.

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    • General Awesomo wrote: What could possibly be more likely is Kakashi finally figuring out how to combine his Lightning Release and his Rasengan together.

      Unlikely. Even Naruto, who's got way better specs for the Rasengan, needs others' help to create the elemental versions.

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    • JOA20 wrote:

      General Awesomo wrote: What could possibly be more likely is Kakashi finally figuring out how to combine his Lightning Release and his Rasengan together.

      Unlikely. Even Naruto, who's got way better specs for the Rasengan, needs others' help to create the elemental versions.

      Are you referring to Sage Art: Lava Release Rasenshuriken and Sage Art: Magnet Release Rasengan? Naruto wasn't used to handling any nature transformation other than Wind Release, much less advanced types. So it's understandable that he needed help. Kakashi, on the other hand, has the two for most of his lifetime.

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    • General Awesomo wrote:

      JOA20 wrote:

      General Awesomo wrote: What could possibly be more likely is Kakashi finally figuring out how to combine his Lightning Release and his Rasengan together.

      Unlikely. Even Naruto, who's got way better specs for the Rasengan, needs others' help to create the elemental versions.

      Are you referring to Sage Art: Lava Release Rasenshuriken and Sage Art: Magnet Release Rasengan? Naruto wasn't used to handling any nature transformation other than Wind Release, much less advanced types. So it's understandable that he needed help. Kakashi, on the other hand, has the two for most of his lifetime.

      Even for Wind Release: Rasenshuriken, he needs Shadow Clones or chakra arms to perform the technique, or to be in Tailed Beast Mode. Kakashi doesn't have enough chakra to create Shadow Clones without worrying about going out of chakra, so I fail to see him mastering an elemental Rasengan.

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    • JOA20 wrote:

      General Awesomo wrote:

      JOA20 wrote:

      General Awesomo wrote: What could possibly be more likely is Kakashi finally figuring out how to combine his Lightning Release and his Rasengan together.

      Unlikely. Even Naruto, who's got way better specs for the Rasengan, needs others' help to create the elemental versions.

      Are you referring to Sage Art: Lava Release Rasenshuriken and Sage Art: Magnet Release Rasengan? Naruto wasn't used to handling any nature transformation other than Wind Release, much less advanced types. So it's understandable that he needed help. Kakashi, on the other hand, has the two for most of his lifetime.

      Even for Wind Release: Rasenshuriken, he needs Shadow Clones or chakra arms to perform the technique, or to be in Tailed Beast Mode. Kakashi doesn't have enough chakra to create Shadow Clones without worrying about going out of chakra, so I fail to see him mastering an elemental Rasengan.

      I could see it happening. Most likely, Kakashi probably doesn't need to input as much lightning chakra into the Rasengan as compared to Lightning Cutter, where the whole technique is solely nature transformation.

      Not having the Sharingan anymore wouldn't increase his chakra pool, but it would free up a lot of it for other uses.

      Overall, if Kakashi sans Sharingan still wants to be a contender, he's going to have to actually showcase his 1,000 jutsus.

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    • General Awesomo wrote: I could see it happening. Most likely, Kakashi probably doesn't need to input as much lightning chakra into the Rasengan as compared to Lightning Cutter, where the whole technique is solely nature transformation.

      Not having the Sharingan anymore wouldn't increase his chakra pool, but it would free up a lot of it for other uses.

      Overall, if Kakashi sans Sharingan still wants to be a contender, he's going to have to actually showcase his 1,000 jutsus.

      Wait, wait. Even base Naruto, who has four times the amount of chakra Kakashi has, can't do more than three Rasenshuriken before getting exhausted. It's true that Chidori/Raikiri+Sharingan requires quite some chakra, but just more than the base Rasengan, and Kakashi could do it up to six times for day. The elemental Rasengan might require almost all of Kakashi's full chakra reserves.

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    • JOA20 wrote:

      General Awesomo wrote: I could see it happening. Most likely, Kakashi probably doesn't need to input as much lightning chakra into the Rasengan as compared to Lightning Cutter, where the whole technique is solely nature transformation.

      Not having the Sharingan anymore wouldn't increase his chakra pool, but it would free up a lot of it for other uses.

      Overall, if Kakashi sans Sharingan still wants to be a contender, he's going to have to actually showcase his 1,000 jutsus.

      Wait, wait. Even base Naruto, who has four times the amount of chakra Kakashi has, can't do more than three Rasenshuriken before getting exhausted. It's true that Chidori/Raikiri+Sharingan requires quite some chakra, but just more than the base Rasengan, and Kakashi could do it up to six times for day. The elemental Rasengan might require almost all of Kakashi's full chakra reserves.

      Maybe. Stranger things have happened, like the how the number of times Kakashi could do Lightning Cutter and Kamui increased, outside of the time skip.

      Specifics aside, and in my own opinion, it would be a nice choice for Kakashi to master Lightning Release: Rasengan. It would show the most growth out of him. Conquering the obstacle that he couldn't climb over before to achieve new strength. Akin to Hinata learning Eight Trigrams Sixty-Four Palms.

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    • Well, Naruto has never been good with chakra control, so he wasted energy while using the technique. I think Kakashi could handle it, with his expert chakra control

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    • AsianReaper wrote: Well, Naruto has never been good with chakra control, so he wasted energy while using the technique. I think Kakashi could handle it, with his expert chakra control

      Rasengan doesn't waste chakra. All the chakra used for the technique is conveyed in the sphere. That's why it doesn't require hand seals, despite it being extremely difficult.

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    • General Awesomo wrote: Half the time Kakashi uses Lightning Cutter, he's not running at breakneck speed. Usually for a quick, well placed stab. He doesn't need the Sharingan for that, he's got Anbu/Jōnin level reflexes for that.

      And not just anyone becomes a Sage. What could possibly be more likely is Kakashi finally figuring out how to combine his Lightning Release and his Rasengan together.

      was thinking the same thing

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    • JOA20 wrote:

      AsianReaper wrote: Well, Naruto has never been good with chakra control, so he wasted energy while using the technique. I think Kakashi could handle it, with his expert chakra control

      Rasengan doesn't waste chakra. All the chakra used for the technique is conveyed in the sphere. That's why it doesn't require hand seals, despite it being extremely difficult.

      I know, but adding lightning release would probably hurt his reserves. Naruto could only manage it a couple times a day at first.

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    • Jashin Uchiha wrote: He still has the 10000+ jutsu he already copied.

      Its 1000 and I'd like to see how Kishi will come up with that many. Counting all jutsu manga, anime, fillers and even fillers there barely is even 350 if I believe.

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    • Rachin123 wrote: Its 1000 and I'd like to see how Kishi will come up with that many. Counting all jutsu manga, anime, fillers and even fillers there barely is even 350 if I believe.

      There are plenty to use Kishi doesn't have to come up with them. Barely 350 pfft, there are over 2089 Jutsu on this Wiki.

      Anime (812)

      Manga (553)

      Movie (168)

      Game (1000)

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    • Jashin Uchiha wrote:

      Rachin123 wrote: Its 1000 and I'd like to see how Kishi will come up with that many. Counting all jutsu manga, anime, fillers and even fillers there barely is even 350 if I believe.

      There are plenty to use Kishi doesn't have to come up with them. Barely 350 pfft, there are over 2089 Jutsu on this Wiki.

      Anime (812)

      Manga (553)

      Movie (168)

      Game (1000)

      Okay i see. Games doesn't even count for the most part. And for some of the anime are kekkei genkai which he can't use. Manga same difference. Though they said he did copy 1000 if you think about logically its unlikely he could have. Oh and if he did known of the many he so called couldn't come in handy instead of him using the sharingan? I'm not hating cuz I like Kakashi. And it was Zabuza and if I believe Guy who said that but they never the man who copied over a thousand jutsus but they said the man who's said to copy over a thousand jutsu. But you believe what you want.

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    • Rachin123 wrote:

      Okay i see. Games doesn't even count for the most part. And for some of the anime are kekkei genkai which he can't use. Manga same difference. Though they said he did copy 1000 if you think about logically its unlikely he could have. Oh and if he did known of the many he so called couldn't come in handy instead of him using the sharingan? I'm not hating cuz I like Kakashi. And it was Zabuza and if I believe Guy who said that but they never the man who copied over a thousand jutsus but they said the man who's said to copy over a thousand jutsu. But you believe what you want.

      Zabuza'a Water dragon bullet and Kisame's Water shark bullet are pretty much the same thing so some of his jutsu could just be deviations of the same Jutsu.

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    • Jashin Uchiha wrote:

      Rachin123 wrote:

      Okay i see. Games doesn't even count for the most part. And for some of the anime are kekkei genkai which he can't use. Manga same difference. Though they said he did copy 1000 if you think about logically its unlikely he could have. Oh and if he did known of the many he so called couldn't come in handy instead of him using the sharingan? I'm not hating cuz I like Kakashi. And it was Zabuza and if I believe Guy who said that but they never the man who copied over a thousand jutsus but they said the man who's said to copy over a thousand jutsu. But you believe what you want.

      Zabuza'a Water dragon bullet and Kisame's Water shark bullet are pretty much the same thing so some of his jutsu could just be deviations of the same Jutsu.

      Still doubt it but I would love to see 1000 of his jutsus he's copied but we won't see them cuz Kishi couldn't.

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    • Yes b*tches! Kakashi has both Sharingan! Yea boi! Finally! Kishi never disappoints!

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    • WindStar7125 wrote: Yes b*tches! Kakashi has both Sharingan! Yea boi! Finally! Kishi never disappoints!

      I'm happy that he has both of the Sharingan eyes... But the matter in which he acquired it, and the fact that he was using Perfect Susanoo is some grade-A bullsh*t!

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    • Grade A-Bullshit my mother****ing ass! I don't care if the sky opened up and God himself gave him the Sharingan, that chapter was euphoric! I was screaming at my computer screen like some raving fanboy.

      Kakashi of the Sharingan is back, bitches!

      ((Also, Elveonora, this proves there is an afterlife.))

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    • KirinNOTKarin98 wrote:

      WindStar7125 wrote: Yes b*tches! Kakashi has both Sharingan! Yea boi! Finally! Kishi never disappoints!

      I'm happy that he has both of the Sharingan eyes... But the matter in which he acquired it, and the fact that he was using Perfect Susanoo is some grade-A bullsh*t!

      Too awesome! Hell yeah boi! Love me some Kakashi!

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    • Ten Tailed Fox wrote: Grade A-Bullshit my mother****ing ass! I don't care if the sky opened up and God himself gave him the Sharingan, that chapter was euphoric! I was screaming at my computer screen like some raving fanboy.

      Kakashi of the Sharingan is back, bitches!

      ((Also, Elveonora, this proves there is an afterlife.))

      I was screaming at my phone... lol.

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    • KirinNOTKarin98 wrote:

      I'm happy that he has both of the Sharingan eyes... But the matter in which he acquired it, and the fact that he was using Perfect Susanoo is some grade-A bullsh*t!

      How did he use Perfect Susanoo? Final Susanoo requires EMS and that only gets you legs. And up till now Perfect Susanoo required Rinnegan.

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    • Jashin Uchiha wrote:

      KirinNOTKarin98 wrote:

      I'm happy that he has both of the Sharingan eyes... But the matter in which he acquired it, and the fact that he was using Perfect Susanoo is some grade-A bullsh*t!

      How did he use Perfect Susanoo? Final Susanoo requires EMS and that only gets you legs. And up till now Perfect Susanoo required Rinnegan.

      Susanoo requires double Mangekyo. EMS isn't more powerful than MS, it just doesn't go blind like the MS. Why Kakashi is a special case, I don't know and don't care. Kakashi's relevant again!

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    • Why was Chomei's Rasenshuriken normal, Kurama at least got wind swirling around his.

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    • Sharigan ex Machina prevails again! But there's no complaining this time! My boy Kakashi is finally relevant again!

      So...is spirit-Obito (by the way, when the hell did he learn Dan's ability to control his soul?) blind now or did they trade eyes or something?

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    • WindStar7125 wrote:

      Susanoo requires double Mangekyo.

      You need Tsukyomi and Amaterasu to make basic Susanoo without legs. But the lower half of Sasuke's Susanoo is generated by Itachi's Susanoo (Madara's Susanoo is generated by Izuna's Susanoo). But the special ones with the long noses are created by the Rinnegan.

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    • WindStar7125 wrote: EMS isn't more powerful than MS, it just doesn't go blind like the MS. Why Kakashi is a special case, I don't know and don't care. Kakashi's relevant again!

      EMS gives you the power of the other uchiha's eyes, "I can feel Itachi's power flowing into me".

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    • Jashin Uchiha wrote:

      WindStar7125 wrote:

      Susanoo requires double Mangekyo.

      You need Tsukyomi and Amaterasu to make basic Susanoo without legs. But the lower half of Sasuke's Susanoo is generated by Itachi's Susanoo (Madara's Susanoo is generated by Izuna's Susanoo). But the special ones with the long noses are created by the Rinnegan.

      Tsukuyomi and Amaterasu aren't required to make Susanoo, only in Itachi's case since they're the powers of his single Mangekyou. Sasuke stated only double Mangekyou is required to use Susanoo. And the rest of your post is wrong, since Indra could develop the Perfect Susanoo with only the Mangekyou.

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    • Jashin Uchiha wrote:

      WindStar7125 wrote:

      Susanoo requires double Mangekyo.

      You need Tsukyomi and Amaterasu to make basic Susanoo without legs. But the lower half of Sasuke's Susanoo is generated by Itachi's Susanoo (Madara's Susanoo is generated by Izuna's Susanoo). But the special ones with the long noses are created by the Rinnegan.

      Susanoo is both Mangekyou, not Tsukuyomi and Amaterasu, this chapter made that perfectly clear.

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    • Jashin Uchiha wrote:

      WindStar7125 wrote:

      Susanoo requires double Mangekyo.

      You need Tsukyomi and Amaterasu to make basic Susanoo without legs. But the lower half of Sasuke's Susanoo is generated by Itachi's Susanoo (Madara's Susanoo is generated by Izuna's Susanoo). But the special ones with the long noses are created by the Rinnegan.

      No you dont. Madara wasn't shown to use Tsukuyomi or Amaterasu. Neither was Shisui.

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    • NeedleJizo wrote: Sharigan ex Machina prevails again! But there's no complaining this time! My boy Kakashi is finally relevant again!

      So...is spirit-Obito (by the way, when the hell did he learn Dan's ability to control his soul?) blind now or did they trade eyes or something?

      Naruto was giving him Yang(Life) Chakra the whole time he was touching him so he is alive but with no physical form (not Dan's ghost jutsu).

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    • Jashin Uchiha wrote: Why was Chomei's Rasenshuriken normal, Kurama at least got wind swirling around his.

      The swiriling one is Choumei's, the normal one is Kurama's. The Rasenshuriken are all placed under their respective beast.

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    • @Jashin Uchiha look at this discussion here. It'll address the former belief that Tsukuyomi and Amaterasu give rise to Susanoo. Not every Susanoo user has used Tsukuyomi and Amaterasu. Sasuke pointed out in a chapter while facing Gaara at the Five Kage Summit that a user needs the double Mangekyo to use Susanoo. Not necessarily the Tsukuyomi and Amaterasu. Kakashi, Madara and Shisui are proof of that.

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    • WindStar7125 wrote:

      No you dont. Madara wasn't shown to use Tsukuyomi or Amaterasu. Neither was Shisui.

      Madara removed Sasuke's Amaterasu with Enton he could have used Tsukuyomi but didn't want to or didn't know how. Shisui??? no Susanoo what you talkin bout?

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    • Benknightprime wrote:

      Susanoo is both Mangekyou, not Tsukuyomi and Amaterasu, this chapter made that perfectly clear.

      You can use Susanoo with one Magenkyou if you awakened them in both eyes.

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    • Jashin Uchiha wrote:

      WindStar7125 wrote:

      No you dont. Madara wasn't shown to use Tsukuyomi or Amaterasu. Neither was Shisui.

      Madara removed Sasuke's Amaterasu with Enton he could have used Tsukuyomi but didn't want to or didn't know how. Shisui??? no Susanoo what you talkin bout?

      He removed Amaterasu by stripping his armour and Shisui has Susanoo in the upcoming game. Kishimoto designed it himself for it.

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    • Benknightprime wrote:

      He removed Amaterasu by stripping his armour and Shisui has Susanoo in the upcoming game. Kishimoto designed it himself for it.

      I didn't know about the game, and if you need two Magenkyou how did Madara escape Desert layered Imperial funeral seal.

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    • Jashin Uchiha wrote:

      Benknightprime wrote:

      He removed Amaterasu by stripping his armour and Shisui has Susanoo in the upcoming game. Kishimoto designed it himself for it.

      I didn't know about the game, and if you need two Magenkyou how did Madara escape Desert Imperial funeral seal.

      Because Madara had two Mangekyou prior and gained the ability then? Two Mangekyou are needed to unlock Susanoo, after that you can apparantly go as far as to lose your eyes but still have Susanoo. But to have Susanoo in the first place, you would of needed the two at some point.

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    • Benknightprime wrote:

      Jashin Uchiha wrote: Why was Chomei's Rasenshuriken normal, Kurama at least got wind swirling around his.

      The swiriling one is Choumei's, the normal one is Kurama's. The Rasenshuriken are all placed under their respective beast.

      Then why was Kurama's normal, he has Wind and Fire release he could have added some chakra to it

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    • Jashin Uchiha wrote:

      Benknightprime wrote:

      Jashin Uchiha wrote: Why was Chomei's Rasenshuriken normal, Kurama at least got wind swirling around his.

      The swiriling one is Choumei's, the normal one is Kurama's. The Rasenshuriken are all placed under their respective beast.

      Then why was Kurama's normal, he has Wind and Fire release he could have added some chakra to it

      He only has fire and wind in the anime.

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    • ahhh

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    • What about Izuna he had two Magenkyo no Susanoo, and Nagato should have been able to use Madara's Susanoo

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    • Jashin Uchiha wrote: What about Izuna he had two Magenkyo no Susanoo, and Nagato should have been able to use Madara's Susanoo

      Izuna was never shown using his Mangekyou. Nagato most likely didn't know he could use Susanoo or didn't have Madara's chakra, while Kakashi has Obito's chakra.

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    • JOA20 wrote:

      Izuna was never shown using his Mangekyou.

      Yes he was, he fought along side Madara leading the Uchiha clan against the Senju.

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    • Jashin Uchiha wrote:

      JOA20 wrote: Izuna was never shown using his Mangekyou.

      Yes he was, he fought along side Madara leading the Uchiha clan against the Senju.

      I meant he never used any MS techniques, Madara didn't as well. We know nothing of their MS powers, only of Madara's EMS ones.

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    • Jashin Uchiha wrote: What about Izuna he had two Magenkyo no Susanoo, and Nagato should have been able to use Madara's Susanoo

      Ummm, Nagato couldn't switch to Madara's EMS. You must awaken Susanoo with the MS first before being able to use it with either other dojutsu or no dojutsu.

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    • How did Madara even awaken two Rinnegan he used the Izanagi so he should have lost one.

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    • Jashin Uchiha wrote: How did Madara even awaken two Rinnegan he used the Izanagi so he should have lost one.

      Apparently, gaining the Rinnegan restored the eye Madara had sacrificed for Izanagi.

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    • JOA20 wrote:

      Jashin Uchiha wrote: How did Madara even awaken two Rinnegan he used the Izanagi so he should have lost one.

      Apparently, gaining the Rinnegan restored the eye Madara had sacrificed for Izanagi.

      Yea that was weird...

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    • Sigh... seriously, I should have become eye doctor.

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    • Elveonora wrote: Sigh... seriously, I should have become eye doctor.

      Yeah, because in real life eyes can be trasplanted without medical surgery, lol.

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    • I was not expecting the double Mangekyō PLUS (Perfect?!) Susanoo. Although it does kind of go along with Naruto and Sasuke's temporary power ups.

      This also seems like the final nail in the coffin that proves you don't need Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi to awaken Susanoo.

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    • WindStar7125 wrote:

      JOA20 wrote:

      Jashin Uchiha wrote: How did Madara even awaken two Rinnegan he used the Izanagi so he should have lost one.

      Apparently, gaining the Rinnegan restored the eye Madara had sacrificed for Izanagi.

      Yea that was weird...

      Sasuke gained the EMS by transplanting Itachi's eyes that has their vision reduced to a blur, but Sasuke didn't mention anything regarding that. So, basically awakening EMS or Rinnegan, will recover the complete vision as well.

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    • Jashin Uchiha wrote:

      WindStar7125 wrote:

      Susanoo requires double Mangekyo.

      You need Tsukyomi and Amaterasu to make basic Susanoo without legs. But the lower half of Sasuke's Susanoo is generated by Itachi's Susanoo (Madara's Susanoo is generated by Izuna's Susanoo). But the special ones with the long noses are created by the Rinnegan.

      You don't need Rinnegan for a perfect Susanoo. When facing the 5 Kage Madara stated his perfect Susanoo rivals the power of a tailed beast. I would imagine he knew this from expierience fighting Hashirama. At this period of time he had not obtained the rinnegan but still had perfect susanoo. He actually obtained the rinnegan right before the end of his life when he was immobile so he wouldn't have had the chance to test it on an opponent. This leads me to believe that the Rinnegan has nothing to do with his Perfect Susanoo.

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    • obito didn't literally give kakashi his eyes but transferred his powers to kakashi. I know a bit of stupidity but that is how it apparently works

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    • kakashi should not be able to use perfect susanoo though at most a basic susanoo

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    • Jashin Uchiha wrote:

      WindStar7125 wrote: EMS isn't more powerful than MS, it just doesn't go blind like the MS. Why Kakashi is a special case, I don't know and don't care. Kakashi's relevant again!

      EMS gives you the power of the other uchiha's eyes, "I can feel Itachi's power flowing into me".

      So? Sasuke lost power by going blind, he regained it with Itachi's. Kakashi is using a perfect winged Susanoo with a normal MS. EMS is just a MS that doesn't go blind. Do you see Sasuke using the Totsuka Blade or Yata Mirror? How bout Itachi's Tsukuyomi? NO. While I'd like those things to happen, they haven't. EMS and MS have the same power, Kakashi is proof.

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    • 66.249.65.29
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