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3rd Eye Casted Infinite Tsukuyomi

  • Rinnegan or sharingan....its both ok people.

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    • What's the point of this?

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    • A debate to see who can come up with a actual argument with claims.

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    • There isn't anything to argue about, really. The third eye is a Rinnegan, yet for some reason Foxie insist that Kaguya has Sharingan.

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    • Because Hagoromo said "my mother had the Byakugan and the power of the Sharingan"? Well, Sasuke said "a genjutsu cast by a Rinnegan can be dispelled by another Rinnegan" while talking about the Infinite Tsukuyomi so I guess Kaguya's third eye is in fact a Rinnegan.

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    • But red with tomoes?

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    • HagoromoOtsutsuki wrote: But red with tomoes?

      For now we don't know wheter Sasuke's Rinnegan is in fact red, since these colorings weren't done by the author himself. Same goes for Kaguya and Madara's third eyes, while the Shinju's eye was colored red both in manga and anime releases.

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    • So it must be red an because the sage said Sharingan power right so IT is sharingan and just a Rinnegan counters it when its with another rinnegan host casting or using it.

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    • It is BOTH. As that was the original dojutsu apparently which came from the shinju itself. It most likely split into the normal rinnegan and the sharingan, while kaguya herself manifested the byakugan after acquiring the shinju chakra. that can't be hard to comprehend can it??

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    • Yeah, why not both? Sasuke appears to have the same design in his left eye, and it is stated to be a Rinnegan. And, Hagoromo said Kaguya possessed a Sharingan, which must be her Third Eye. Putting two and two together (among a few other statements in the manga), and viola, a hybrid of sorts.

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    • Kaguya didn't have a Sharingan, don't quote an article for a source. The eye's name is a Rinnegan and that's just that. Sharingan is what got split from it.

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    • Artofcreation
      Artofcreation removed this reply because:
      Tried to upload a manga image, but it failed (prohibited, I guess). The post wasn't visible upon refresh, so I thought it was deleted. Since the upload failed, I posted another reply using text only, but then this one reappeared. :/ It's redundant now.
      20:23, June 8, 2014
      This reply has been removed

      Elveonora wrote: Kaguya didn't have a Sharingan, don't quote an article for a source. The eye's name is a Rinnegan and that's just that. Sharingan is what got split from it.

      Chapter 671, quoted from the Sage of Six Paths...

      Unless I'm missing something obvious, Kaguya most certainly had a Sharingan.

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    • Read Chapter 671. English translation reads... (Sage of Six Paths): "Their mother, besides having the Byakugan, also possessed the power of the Sharingan", in reference to Kaguya.

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    • Power of Sharingan =/= Sharingan. Madara's third eye was called a Rinnegan.

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    • Elveonora wrote: Power of Sharingan =/= Sharingan. Madara's third eye was called a Rinnegan.

      I see what you're saying, and I can agree with it.

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    • Perhaps the Shinju's eye is the true version of the Rinnegan. Not that Madara and Hagoromo's Rinnegan is a copy or something like that but more akin to how the Sharingan works with it maturing, but nothing really like that at all. What I'm thinking is that Kaguya and Madara's third eye only manifests itself when the Shinju's chakra is present. Its chakra awakens this specific, original, final, whatever, form of the Rinnegan. Hagoromo didn't possess the Shinju's actual chakra and so possessed his version of the Rinnegan, one which could be replicated by possessing his chakra, namely by uniting Senju and Uchiha DNA inside on person. I don't really know how Sasuke's Rinnegan fits into this or why Obito didn't awaken a third eye either but I'll chalk it up to magic at this point. To me, this seems like a logical explanation but its only a theory. Don't give me flak if you don't agree with it, please.

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    • not like that i will explain to you shinju eye is all the dojutsu in the ninja world and to have it you should have rinnegan and byakugan and sharingan the sharingan isn't a weaker copy of rinnegan no it's false it's a special dojutsu kaguya third eye wasn't a rinnegan or a byakugan or a sharingan it was all three together the sharingan have the power to make and know genjutsu the byakugan to see the chakra flow and rinnegan the six paths technique hagoromo inherited the power of rinnegan but didn't awaken the power of sharingan his son awaken it and when you got the power of asura you awaken them both and with special condition you awaken the third eye

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    • and remember madara said : and the second awakened the rinnegan with tomoes like mine that mean when you are indra reincarnation and get DNA from asura's one you awaken rinnegan with tomoes

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    • Come on guys.We all know what a normal Sharingan and a normal Rinnegan look like.From all the information we have we know that this weird eye that Kaguya and Sasuke have is an eye with both the Rinnegan and the Sharingan activated.Hagoromo said that his mother had also the power of the Sharingan and Sasuke said that it's a Rinnegan Genjutsu.So it's both.Kaguya possesses the 3 Great Doojutsu.

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    • Mounzer wrote: and remember madara said : and the second awakened the rinnegan with tomoes like mine that mean when you are indra reincarnation and get DNA from asura's one you awaken rinnegan with tomoes

      No he said that they have the same Sharingan with straight tomoe.Madara's Rinnegan didn't have tomoe.

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    • So Kaguya's son had just the Rinnegan and Kaguya's grandson had just the Sharingan.

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    • right

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    • and kaguya didn t turn ground into lava she crushed the ground and move it -_-

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    • Mounzer wrote: and kaguya didn t turn ground into lava she crushed the ground and move it -_-

      That's irrelevant.

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    • i know but only information

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    • Mounzer wrote: kaguya third eye wasn't a rinnegan or a byakugan or a sharingan it was all three together

      The Byakugan is only present in Kaguya's normal pair of eyes, which have a similar appearance to the Hyuga clan's. That's also how we see her activate it in the last chapter. If you want to argue that Kaguya has both Sharingan and Rinnegan, then those would be in her Third Eye, which does not have the Byakugan.

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    • Sigh... talk about twisting something out of proportion.

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    • ok i will stop posting ideas
      
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    • If she does have all 3 Dojutsu Kishimoto is a horrible writer being as it specifically says that she has the Byakugan and Sharingan. never once does he say she has the Rinnegan

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    • Sasuke said the Infinite Tsukuyomi to have been cast by Rinnegan, therefore Madara's third eye is a Rinnegan. Kaguya's identical to his.

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    • Let's call the third eye Shinju Eye. The Shinju Eye is the final evolution of the Dojutsu chain. This explains why Kaguya had the power of both Sharingan and Rinnegan. Shinju had the eye, and when Kaguya ate the fruit, they had the same power, so same eye. Kaguya then gave birth to Hamura and Hagoromo, with Hamura maybe getting the Byakugan and Hagoromo getting a devolved Shinju Eye, Rinnegan. The reason that the Rinnegan is grey and not red is because the previous eye was manifested on the mother, not the father. Hagoromo then had two sons, Indra and Asura, and Indra got a more devolved eye, Mangekyo Sharingan and Sharingan. This time is red, due to the previous eye being on the father. This explains why Sasuke have the Shinju Eye in his left eye socket, since his eye evolved due to the chakra of Hagoromo. Also, Shinju and Kaguya had a 9 tomoe Shinju Eye, while Sasuke had a 6 tomoe Shinju Eye, since Hagoromo didn't have the Shinju's chakra, so the eye didn't manifest to the full version.

      The reason that Kaguya and Madara having the Shinju Eye on the forehead and not in normal eye socket is because they both used a shortcut way to achieve the eye. When Madara became Shinju's Jinchuriki, his Shinju Eye didn't manifest, which means that Kaguya didn't get the Shinju's Eye either by eating the fruit, since the fruit had most of the Shinju's chakra, which is the equivalent to being the Jinchuriki. This also explains why Kaguya is stronger than Shinju. Kaguya and Madara both used Infinite Tsukuyomi, which is related to the moon, and how Madara got his Shinju Eye is to approach the moon, so we can assume that Kaguya got her eye like that as well, due to the Shinju's chakra inside both of them reacting to the Shinju's chakra on the moon.

      The normal way to evolve the Rinnegan is similar to how the Sharingan evolved into the Mangekyo Sharingan.

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    • Georgio722 wrote: how Madara got his Shinju Eye is to approach the moon, so we can assume that Kaguya got her eye like that as well, due to the Shinju's chakra inside both of them reacting to the Shinju's chakra on the moon.

      There was no moon during Kaguya's time.

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    • Hagoromo 1234 wrote: There was no moon during Kaguya's time.

      She could've casted the Infinite Tsukuyomi after the moon was made, which also explains how the Infinite Tsukuyomi was stopped, by the two sons.

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    • Its a Sharinnegan. End of discussion :P

      Also, she could have made a mini-shinju tree just like obito and cast IT from the eye at the blossom (like a lighthouse across the lands)

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    • Elveonora wrote: Sasuke said the Infinite Tsukuyomi to have been cast by Rinnegan, therefore Madara's third eye is a Rinnegan. Kaguya's identical to his.

      it doesn't matter what Sasuke said. Hagoromo said that Kaguya has the byakugan and Sharingan. he never once said that she had the Rinnegan. it amazes me that someone could actually believe that she had the Rinnegan when Hagoromo never once said she has the Rinnegan.

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    • Georgio722 wrote: Let's call the third eye Shinju Eye. The Shinju Eye is the final evolution of the Dojutsu chain. This explains why Kaguya had the power of both Sharingan and Rinnegan. Shinju had the eye, and when Kaguya ate the fruit, they had the same power, so same eye. Kaguya then gave birth to Hamura and Hagoromo, with Hamura maybe getting the Byakugan and Hagoromo getting a devolved Shinju Eye, Rinnegan. The reason that the Rinnegan is grey and not red is because the previous eye was manifested on the mother, not the father. Hagoromo then had two sons, Indra and Asura, and Indra got a more devolved eye, Mangekyo Sharingan and Sharingan. This time is red, due to the previous eye being on the father. This explains why Sasuke have the Shinju Eye in his left eye socket, since his eye evolved due to the chakra of Hagoromo. Also, Shinju and Kaguya had a 9 tomoe Shinju Eye, while Sasuke had a 6 tomoe Shinju Eye, since Hagoromo didn't have the Shinju's chakra, so the eye didn't manifest to the full version.

      The reason that Kaguya and Madara having the Shinju Eye on the forehead and not in normal eye socket is because they both used a shortcut way to achieve the eye. When Madara became Shinju's Jinchuriki, his Shinju Eye didn't manifest, which means that Kaguya didn't get the Shinju's Eye either by eating the fruit, since the fruit had most of the Shinju's chakra, which is the equivalent to being the Jinchuriki. This also explains why Kaguya is stronger than Shinju. Kaguya and Madara both used Infinite Tsukuyomi, which is related to the moon, and how Madara got his Shinju Eye is to approach the moon, so we can assume that Kaguya got her eye like that as well, due to the Shinju's chakra inside both of them reacting to the Shinju's chakra on the moon.

      The normal way to evolve the Rinnegan is similar to how the Sharingan evolved into the Mangekyo Sharingan.

      the eye on the fourhead is a Third eye which is The third eye (also known as the inner eye) is a mystical and esoteric concept referring to a speculative invisible eye which provides perception beyond ordinary sight. In certain dharmic spiritual traditions such as Hinduism, the third eye refers to the ajna, or brow, chakra.

      In other words the eye is a manifestation of her inner power.

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    • Georgio722 wrote:

      Hagoromo 1234 wrote: There was no moon during Kaguya's time.

      She could've casted the Infinite Tsukuyomi after the moon was made, which also explains how the Infinite Tsukuyomi was stopped, by the two sons.

      Hagoromo made the moon on his death bed. He died after it. So even if Kaguya was somehow alive at that time, her sons couldn't have stopped the Infinite Tsukuyomi.

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    • hagoromo said she had the power of sharingan and he didn't said she had a sharingan that mean that her eye is a developed version of combination between rinnegan and sharingan a very powerful eye that have the power of sharingan but developed the IT a very high developed version of tsukuyomi this is my theory

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    • Hagoromo 1234 wrote: Hagoromo made the moon on his death bed. He died after it. So even if Kaguya was somehow alive at that time, her sons couldn't have stopped the Infinite Tsukuyomi.

      Well, it's just my theory, it's not perfect. How about when Hagoromo was on his death bed, Hamura gave him his power since Hagoromo was the Jinchuriki of the Shinju, so he would be stronger. Hamura then died because he gave Hagoromo all of his chakra. Hagoromo then got "revived" and battled Kaguya. He stopped the Infinite Tsukuyomi, and sealed Kaguya within the moon as well, but died due to the amount of chakra used, and this is what really happened to Hagoromo.

      This explains why Hamura wasn't mentioned that much, since he died. This also explains why the will of Kaguya appeared after Madara approached the moon, due to Madara's chakra reacting with Kaguya's chakra.

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    • Mounzer wrote: hagoromo said she had the power of sharingan and he didn't said she had a sharingan that mean that her eye is a developed version of combination between rinnegan and sharingan a very powerful eye that have the power of sharingan but developed the IT a very high developed version of tsukuyomi this is my theory

      We had a similar theory.

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    • Mounzer wrote: hagoromo said she had the power of sharingan and he didn't said she had a sharingan that mean that her eye is a developed version of combination between rinnegan and sharingan a very powerful eye that have the power of sharingan but developed the IT a very high developed version of tsukuyomi this is my theory

      When they show pics of Kaguya. they have 1 of two appearances 1 she has 2 eyes and a red slit on her four head(the slit is closed) that was before he mentioned her ocular powers. then he said "Beside the byakugan, my mother had the power of the Sharingan" when he said Byakugan they showed a picture of her normal eyes(her Byakugan) then when he said the power of the Sharingan. they showed her four head(with the slit open)showing the Third eye. there is no ifs ands or buts about it. when talking about the Sharingan Hagoromo was referring to his mothers Third eye

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    • Power of Sharingan =/= Sharingan, God DAMN!

      • Hagoromo's Rinnegan can't cast Infinite Tsukuyomi, but Sharingan can
      • While Kaguya's Rinnegan could cast Infinite Tsukuyomi
      • Therefore from his point of view, Infinite Tsukuyomi is power of Sharingan even though it was originally of Rinnegan, is it really that hard to comprehend?

      Instead of that, Foxie and alike make up impossible fanon theories.

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    • Actionmanrandell wrote:

      Mounzer wrote: hagoromo said she had the power of sharingan and he didn't said she had a sharingan that mean that her eye is a developed version of combination between rinnegan and sharingan a very powerful eye that have the power of sharingan but developed the IT a very high developed version of tsukuyomi this is my theory

      When they show pics of Kaguya. they have 1 of two appearances 1 she has 2 eyes and a red slit on her four head(the slit is closed) that was before he mentioned her ocular powers. then he said "Beside the byakugan, my mother had the power of the Sharingan" when he said Byakugan they showed a picture of her normal eyes(her Byakugan) then when he said the power of the Sharingan. they showed her four head(with the slit open)showing the Third eye. there is no ifs ands or buts about it. when talking about the Sharingan Hagoromo was referring to his mothers Third eye

      i know and that's what i said her third eye is a developed version of combination between rinnegan and sharingan a very powerful eye that have the power of sharingan but developed the IT a very high developed version of tsukuyomi.

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    • Elveonora wrote: Power of Sharingan =/= Sharingan, God DAMN!

      • Hagoromo's Rinnegan can't cast Infinite Tsukuyomi, but Sharingan can
      • While Kaguya's Rinnegan could cast Infinite Tsukuyomi
      • Therefore from his point of view, Infinite Tsukuyomi is power of Sharingan even though it was originally of Rinnegan, is it really that hard to comprehend?

      Instead of that, Foxie and alike make up impossible fanon theories.

      infiniti tsukuyomi isn't a power of sharingan but a developed version of it that's all

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    • Shinju, Kaguya and Madara's eye is just the original Rinnegan, not any merger or Sharinnegan BS.

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    • than why there is tomoes that's what i ask

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    • Because that's what Rinnegan originally was.

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    • If you look at Sasuke's "Rinnegan" it only has six tomoe but Kaguya and Madara's both had nine, Sasuke's tomoe represents the tomoe of his and Itachi's sharingan PLUS the Rinnegan Hagoromo gave him, the two overlap. Since Madara awakened the Rinnegan from the EMS it (the Rinnegan) is technically a realy stong sharingan, so the third eye is just an EMS with the Rinnegan instead of sharingan.

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    • "head hurts" I'm gonna need a new pair of eyes myself the longer this goes on, they are already bleeding.

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    • My head hurts......

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    • According to the latest chapter, my theory about how Kaguya casted the Infinite Tsukuyomi after her sons were born, how the Infinite Tsukuyomi was stopped by her sons, and how she was sealed into the moon by them was correct! My theory about Hamura getting the Byakugan was also correct!

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    • But it was implied that the 'seal that turned Gedo Mazo (Kaguyas body merged with Shinju minus nine Biju extracted by Banbutsu Sozo) into the core of Chibaku Tensei to create the moon' was created by the comjunction of the sun crest on Hagoromos palm and the moon crest on Hamuras palm. Meaning Hamura would have had to be still alive by the time Kaguya was sealed into the moon, shortly prior to Hagoromos death

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    • Kiyuna wrote: But it was implied that the 'seal that turned Gedo Mazo (Kaguyas body merged with Shinju minus nine Biju extracted by Banbutsu Sozo) into the core of Chibaku Tensei to create the moon' was created by the comjunction of the sun crest on Hagoromos palm and the moon crest on Hamuras palm. Meaning Hamura would have had to be still alive by the time Kaguya was sealed into the moon, shortly prior to Hagoromos death

      But Hagoromo currently has the two crests on each of his hands, so that means Hamura gave him his power before he died.

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    • yea, possibly

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    • Casted ain't a word guys.

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    • Elveonora wrote: Shinju, Kaguya and Madara's eye is just the original Rinnegan, not any merger or Sharinnegan BS.

      that is the problem people like you keep saying that it is just the original Rinnegan when they have not once said that in the manga in fact the manga says the opposite. Hagoromo said beside the byakugan my mother had the sharingan he did not say she had the Rinnegan people like you are assuming because sasuke said a genjutsu cast with a Rinnegan can be broken by another Rinnegan means that her eye is a Rinnegan which is just an assumption. Madara had the Rinnnegan so therefore any visually based genjutsu is by extension a Rinnegan cast genjutsu

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    • Elveonora wrote: Casted ain't a word guys.

      According the to the oxford dictionary Casted is a word and its meaning is the past tense of cast

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    • Actionmanrandell wrote:

      Elveonora wrote: Casted ain't a word guys.

      According the to the oxford dictionary Casted is a word and its meaning is the past tense of cast

      Link?

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    • Elveonora wrote:

      Actionmanrandell wrote:

      Elveonora wrote: Casted ain't a word guys.

      According the to the oxford dictionary Casted is a word and its meaning is the past tense of cast

      Link?

      looked it up in my hardback oxford dictionary but here is a page that talks about it being listed in the oxford dictionary http://english.stackexchange.com/questions/94565/can-casted-be-the-past-tense-of-cast

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    • It says casted is an archaism.

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    • Elveonora wrote: It says casted is an archaism.

      just because a word is old or old-fashioned doesn't mean it is not a word

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    • If you write a college paper using archaic inflections and submit it to your English professor, you would not get a good score. Of course, archaisms are words in a broad scope, but they are not (valid) words in present Standard English. With that said, not everyone here is a native English speaker, so let's not argue too much over this stuff. It seems like a lot of actual Naruto-related debates (this thread being a perfect example) boil down to iffy semantics, heh.

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    • Artofcreation wrote: If you write a college paper using archaic inflections and submit it to your English professor, you would not get a good score. Of course, archaisms are words in a broad scope, but they are not (valid) words in present Standard English. With that said, not everyone here is a native English speaker, so let's not argue too much over this stuff. It seems like a lot of actual Naruto-related debates (this thread being a perfect example) boil down to iffy semantics, heh.

      That paragraph is so full of falsities I don't even know where to begin.

      Firstly, I've been in college for three years, going on four, and took many high-level English electives (since I enjoy those classes so much). Haven't met a professor to date that gives a rat's ass about archaic words, and seeing as I came out of three of those classes with a near perfect score, I really don't think its as big a deal as you pretend to make it. A word does not become less valid with age.

      A word is a word.

      Secondly, we must've gotten very bored in this thread if we are going after people for not using "modern" English. Please try to stay on topic and if someone's choice of words (barring insults, of course) bother you, ignore it. It really isn't that hard.

      Thank you.

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    • So, I hate to say it, but Elveonora is probably right here. Haguromo has been confirmed as knowing next to nothing about Kaguya by Black Zetsu. He did not know that she was the Shinju, that she had a Rinnegan, or that Black Zetsu ever even existed. He did know that his child was born in possession of a Sharingan, and reasoned that the trait had to originate from himself,and therefore could be traced backwards to the originator of all chakra abilities, Kaguya. Because Haguromo himself believed his Rinnegan to be unique, he simply assumed that Kaguya must have had a Sharingan, and that her abilities were, therefore, Sharingan abilities. He never even considered that Kaguya had a Rinnegan, nor did he envision a Rinnegan superior to his own, possessed of abilities his lacked. Therefore, Haguromo's insight as to Kaguya's dojutsu becomes both correct and incorrect, thanks to a little help from Black Zetsu.

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    • I could be dead wrong about my theory but I believe that not only it's the Rinnegan that Kaguya has but it's a fully complete Rinnegan unlike Hagoromo's (even though his is no slouch at all). And as powerful as Sharingan may be, it's nowhere near the power that Kaguya possess' with her Rinnegan even with it's EMS power. So yes to me it's the Rinnegan but a more powerful version that even Hagoromo may not complete with because it took him and Hamura (his brother) to seal her away.

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    • That makes sense since Hagoromo said she had the rinnegan but it's never said Hagoromo had it.

      his dojutsu was always refered to as the sage of six path's rinnegan. implying his rinnegan isn't the only kind

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    • Ten Tailed Fox wrote: Secondly, we must've gotten very bored in this thread if we are going after people for not using "modern" English. Please try to stay on topic and if someone's choice of words (barring insults, of course) bother you, ignore it. It really isn't that hard.

      Thank you.

      I still disagree on the matter, but I respect your two cents. I'll keep quite as to not digress further.

      Uchiha913 wrote: I could be dead wrong about my theory but I believe that not only it's the Rinnegan that Kaguya has but it's a fully complete Rinnegan unlike Hagoromo's (even though his is no slouch at all).

      I think that's the general consensus for those of us who believe she wields a Rinnegan. For the Sage to say Kaguya has "Byakugan and power of Sharingan" as opposed to simply "Byakugan and Sharingan" should indicate something, or maybe we're reading too much into it. Either way, I'm fine if someone wants to call it a Rinnegan of any sort or even a Rinnegan/Sharingan hybrid. The issue seems subjective enough as it is. However, a claim I cannot reconcile with is that Third Eye = exclusively Sharingan, which seems to be a significant opinion among some.

      Oh, it was so nice when we used to refer to it simply as "Shinju's eye" (or something comparable) and kept Rinnegan and Sharingan completely separate.

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    • People, please. quite and quiet are not the same word.

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    • No one said the contrary I believe, so not sure what your point is.

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    • Artofcreation wrote:

      Ten Tailed Fox wrote: Secondly, we must've gotten very bored in this thread if we are going after people for not using "modern" English. Please try to stay on topic and if someone's choice of words (barring insults, of course) bother you, ignore it. It really isn't that hard.

      Thank you.

      I still disagree on the matter, but I respect your two cents. I'll keep quite as to not digress further.

      Uchiha913 wrote: I could be dead wrong about my theory but I believe that not only it's the Rinnegan that Kaguya has but it's a fully complete Rinnegan unlike Hagoromo's (even though his is no slouch at all).

      I think that's the general consensus for those of us who believe she wields a Rinnegan. For the Sage to say Kaguya has "Byakugan and power of Sharingan" as opposed to simply "Byakugan and Sharingan" should indicate something, or maybe we're reading too much into it. Either way, I'm fine if someone wants to call it a Rinnegan of any sort or even a Rinnegan/Sharingan hybrid. The issue seems subjective enough as it is. However, a claim I cannot reconcile with is that Third Eye = exclusively Sharingan, which seems to be a significant opinion among some.

      Oh, it was so nice when we used to refer to it simply as "Shinju's eye" (or something comparable) and kept Rinnegan and Sharingan completely separate.

      In japanese culture if someone says "beside the byakugan my mother has the power of the sharingan" they are saying she had the sharingan they are not saying power of the sharingan. its just thats the way it is worded the meaning is the same that she had the sharingan

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    • is it so hard to believe that she would only have the sharingan

      she had the byakugan sharingan together those two dojutsu are incredibly OP. she would have no reason to expand the power of one of her eyes(sharingan) when she can simply use the power of her byakugan and sharingan together. having the Rinnegan would make her impossible to beat im sorry but there is no way around it. look how powerful madara was with borrowed power just imagine how powerful hagoromo and hurama were and take those powers and combined them and then add to it. a complete Rinnegan. im sorry but no one in the universe could go up against that.

      hagoromo was born with just one dojutsu it manifested in the form of the Rinnegan in reality all the Rinnegan is is a superior Sharingan. how is it hard to believe that since thats the only dojutsu he had that it developed to perfection where in she had both the byakugan and sharingan. there would be no reason for her to favor her Sharingan over her byakugan. generally when a person favors one thing over another the other sacrifices strengths. ie if she had focused that much on her sharingan(1 eye) her byakugan would be lacking. also being that hagoromo was actually born with chakra it would be understandable that his eye simply and naturally evolved and become superior

      Also i might add that Indra did not gain the Rinnegan. he gained the Sharingan. indicating that hagoromo was born with a sharingan and that his eye simply evolved. that would lend credit to that every Rinnegan is a sharingan but not every sharingan is a Rinnegan. it is simply that kaguya did not push her Sharingan to the fullest extent of its power.

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    • ofcourse it was the 3rd eye

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    • Since when are you Japanese language/culture expert Manrandell?

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    • It is totally impossible for Hagoromo to have a kekkei genkai not possessed by Kaguya. The laws of heredity, which Kishi tries really hard to abide by, deny even the possibility. Therefore, Kaguya had to have a Rinnegan. It can, though, be a subtly genetically different Rinnegan than that of Hagoromo, because of the recombination of genes. In a story context, all chakra abilities had to have originated from Kaguya, because al chakra originated from Kaguya. There is no middle ground. Either Kaguya has the Rinnegan, or there is no such thing as a Rinnegan. One of those is obviously false, so we have but one option.

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    • Please, don't speak the truth, some individuals around here are allergic to it. And neither of us want to be responsible for a potential shock that might occur.

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    • Mrlmm0605 wrote: It is totally impossible for Hagoromo to have a kekkei genkai not possessed by Kaguya. The laws of heredity, which Kishi tries really hard to abide by, deny even the possibility. Therefore, Kaguya had to have a Rinnegan. It can, though, be a subtly genetically different Rinnegan than that of Hagoromo, because of the recombination of genes. In a story context, all chakra abilities had to have originated from Kaguya, because al chakra originated from Kaguya. There is no middle ground. Either Kaguya has the Rinnegan, or there is no such thing as a Rinnegan. One of those is obviously false, so we have but one option.

      Really?

      I'm curious. Which laws of heredity has Kishi "tried hard" to follow? In fact, which laws of genetics period, has he followed? I mean, I don't know about you, but if I inject my mother's blood into me, its not going to suddenly make my eyes go from blue to brown (Madara suddenly gaining Hashirama's genetic traits from the same thing), and, in fact, injecting someone's genetic material into your body is pretty dangerous.

      Perhaps you mean the laws concerning the passing down of kekkei genkai? But the laws you speak of would say that the Sharingan would've deprecated even further by now, just by the fact that mutations do occur more often the further from the source (which you claim as the Rinnegan [Kabuto says otherwise btw]) you go. And the nasty bit about what inbreeding (which preservation of these kekkei genkai would require) would do to a clan after centuries and centuries of it.

      And while we're on that, why don't you tell me the probability that Kaguya's three dojutsu (that's right, three) would perfectly divide between the bloodlines of her two sons, so that one would have the Byakugan and the second would have the Sharingan/Rinnegan? Hm? The chances are much, much, much higher that (depending on which is a dominant trait, or whether they both are) the brothers would actually both have the same eyes. But he's speaking the truth, right, Elveonora?

      Elveonora wrote: Please, don't speak the truth, some individuals around here are allergic to it. And neither of us want to be responsible for a potential shock that might occur.

      Well, it would have to be the truth first, and he couldn't be further from it. Same with you. I'd prefer you keep the snarky remarks to yourself though. Its getting old fast.

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    • "that's right, three" And you talk about snarky remarks. Also I somehow don't get what you are getting at with the part about equal/unequal split, try to rephrase that.

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    • Elveonora wrote: "that's right, three" And you talk about snarky remarks. Also I somehow don't get what you are getting at with the part about equal/unequal split, try to rephrase that.

      Kaguya has two different sets of eyes in her body, which possess the abilities of three (Sharingan, Byakugan, and Rinnegan), which means, if your friend who is "speaking the truth" is correct, and Kishi is following genetics, that means she has the alleles for all three dojutsu. Even so, it is highly improbable, nigh impossible, that her sons would be evenly split, with one possessing the Byakugan, and the other possessing the Sharingan/Rinnegan (Hagoromo had to have the Sharingan's power at the very least, because Indra awakened the Sharingan itself. See where your theory falls apart?). If he was following those laws properly, it'd be far more likely that both Hagoromo and Hamura would've either both been born with the Byakugan, or both with the Sharingan/Rinnegan (take your pick). Plot decided that choice, not genetics.

      I'll also point out that Kishi has stated in an interview that if an Uchiha and Hyuga were to breed, the resulting child would have a Sharingan in one eye, and a Byakugan in another. So why didn't Kaguya's children? Furthermore, and more to the point, that is also not how genetics work.

      Long story short, he isn't telling you the truth and you should be more careful about popping off snarky remarks about myself and other well-meaning users just because someone's "theory" matches yours, even if their facts are questionable.

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    • Genetics don't work in Narutoverse like IRL, chakra does though. We don't know how were Hagoromo and Hamura, Ashura and Indra conceived. For all we know, they might have been made the same way as Tailed Beasts were. Kaguya and Hagoromo each took a part of their chakra and did magic.

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    • Elveonora wrote: Genetics don't work in Narutoverse like IRL, chakra does though. We don't know how were Hagoromo and Hamura, Ashura and Indra conceived. For all we know, they might have been made the same way as Tailed Beasts were. Kaguya and Hagoromo each took a part of their chakra and did magic.

      That is certainly true, but again, for that theory to be plausible, the Sharingan had to be part of Hagoromo's power for it to manifest in Indra.

      I, like you, lean more towards a chakra-related birth, at the very least, to Hagoromo and Hamura, but we'll likely never know.

      Edit: The only reason I argued genetics is because you were trying to validate the other user's logic, which claims Kishi is following said laws of genetics. I was merely trying to show you why that wasn't the case.

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    • "All chakra abilities had to have originated from Kaguya, because all chakra originated from Kaguya" and that is true, unless Kishi gives us another plot-twist. Since Kaguya/Ten-Tails whatever is source of all chakra and seemingly Hagoromo and Hamura each inherited a different aspect of her (just like Ashura and Indra did of Hagoromo) it stands to reason that everything Hagoromo has is also what his mother has to have. Therefore since he does have the Rinnegan, so then must she as well. There's no room for "3rd party chakra upgrade" so the only way for Hagoromo to be the originator of the Rinnegan would be if the assumed father's genes had brought a mutation.

      And we don't know anything about the father or even if there was any. But scientifically, there had to be one, since the Y chromosome didn't come from nowhere, unless:

      1. "magic"
      2. Kaguya is a hermaphrodite

      And since Ashura + Indra = Hagoromo, logic has it that Hagoromo + Hamura = Kaguya. Only once and if a father appears can your theory about the Sharingan having been there first work.

      If Hagoromo is just 50% of Kaguya and has the Rinnegan, then she must have had the Rinnegan and more from the get-go, being the whole.

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    • Except you forget that by your own argument, Kaguya has the "power of the Sharingan". In order for Indra, then, to have a Sharingan, the Sharingan's power must also have been in Hagoromo. Regardless of whether Indra was born via chakra or genetics, this has to be true, since Hagoromo can't pass on a power he doesn't have.

      But your theory says that only the tomoe Rinnegan has the Sharingan's power, which Hagoromo didn't have, meaning that in your theory, the Sharingan either A) is a derivative of the Rinnegan (which is a theory that requires genetics), or B) the Sharingan popped out of nowhere.

      Which is it?

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    • How come Kaguya haven't attempt to cast a genjutsu on both or either Naruto or/and Sasuke if its the Sharingan (not saying that it's not even though I say it's the Rinnegan). Don't get me wrong I'm sure they can break out of it thanks to the power-up from Hagoromo, but casting a genjutsu is one of the things that the Sharingan does best.

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    • Pretty much, Kaguya had the Tomoe Rinnegan and the Byakugan, Hagoromo only the Rinnegan, Hamura only the Byakugan. Indra inherited only the tomoe that weren't manifested in his father's Rinnegan and thus had only the Sharingan which could be at best evolved to Mangekyo Sharingan.

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    • Infinite Tsukuyom is genjutsu and is cast with the red tomoe Rinnegan, so yes, she can use genjutsu. Although Sasuke is Sharingan/Rinnegan user and Naruto jinchuuriki, so presumably it wouldn't work well on them

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    • Mrlmm0605 wrote: It is totally impossible for Hagoromo to have a kekkei genkai not possessed by Kaguya. The laws of heredity, which Kishi tries really hard to abide by, deny even the possibility. Therefore, Kaguya had to have a Rinnegan. It can, though, be a subtly genetically different Rinnegan than that of Hagoromo, because of the recombination of genes. In a story context, all chakra abilities had to have originated from Kaguya, because al chakra originated from Kaguya. There is no middle ground. Either Kaguya has the Rinnegan, or there is no such thing as a Rinnegan. One of those is obviously false, so we have but one option.

      No it isn't impossible you have no idea what you are talking about. and the Rinnegan and Sharingan are essentially the same thing. All Rinnegan are sharingan as well. but not all sharingan are Rinnegan. kaguya had the Sharingan and byakugan so she never focused on enhancing her sharingan. she used them both together and as such it would be redundant to have a third dojutsu hagoromo had only 1 dojutsu. and the dojutsu were inspired by a Japanese story with a clan that each member has a unique dojutsu

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    • Elveonora wrote: Power of Sharingan =/= Sharingan, God DAMN!

      • Hagoromo's Rinnegan can't cast Infinite Tsukuyomi, but Sharingan can
      • While Kaguya's Rinnegan could cast Infinite Tsukuyomi
      • Therefore from his point of view, Infinite Tsukuyomi is power of Sharingan even though it was originally of Rinnegan, is it really that hard to comprehend?

      Instead of that, Foxie and alike make up impossible fanon theories.

      in japanese culture when they say Power of they are saying that person has what ever as in power of sharingan they a re saying that person has the sharingan

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    • Elveonora wrote: Shinju, Kaguya and Madara's eye is just the original Rinnegan, not any merger or Sharinnegan BS.


      You need to learn to read. hagoromo said byakugan and sharingan not byakugan sharingan and Rinnegan get a life and stop reading to much into the term Power of. if you were to go to japan you would read that many stories have simular writing methods as in power of magic power of god etc when they say this they are not just saying the person ahs the power of magic or the person has the power of a god they are literally saying the person has magic the person is a god. and as such when kishimoto says besides the byakugan she had the power of the sharingan he is literally saying besides the byakugan she had the sharingan

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    • Elveonora wrote: Since when are you Japanese language/culture expert Manrandell?


      i have been into Japanese culture my entire life and my Fiance is Japanese and was born and raised in japan

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    • Mrlmm0605 wrote: It is totally impossible for Hagoromo to have a kekkei genkai not possessed by Kaguya. The laws of heredity, which Kishi tries really hard to abide by, deny even the possibility. Therefore, Kaguya had to have a Rinnegan. It can, though, be a subtly genetically different Rinnegan than that of Hagoromo, because of the recombination of genes. In a story context, all chakra abilities had to have originated from Kaguya, because al chakra originated from Kaguya. There is no middle ground. Either Kaguya has the Rinnegan, or there is no such thing as a Rinnegan. One of those is obviously false, so we have but one option.


      By your logic she must have every Dojutsu

      she must have Ranmaru's dojutsu

      she must have Deidara's dojutsu(he created that himself)

      is it so hard to believe that maybe just maybe Hagoromo was not born with the Rinnegan maybe just maybe he was born with a Sharingan and simply trained it and evolved it the same way Deidara trained his eye to be immune to genjutsu

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    • Elveonora wrote: "All chakra abilities had to have originated from Kaguya, because all chakra originated from Kaguya" and that is true, unless Kishi gives us another plot-twist. Since Kaguya/Ten-Tails whatever is source of all chakra and seemingly Hagoromo and Hamura each inherited a different aspect of her (just like Ashura and Indra did of Hagoromo) it stands to reason that everything Hagoromo has is also what his mother has to have. Therefore since he does have the Rinnegan, so then must she as well. There's no room for "3rd party chakra upgrade" so the only way for Hagoromo to be the originator of the Rinnegan would be if the assumed father's genes had brought a mutation.

      And we don't know anything about the father or even if there was any. But scientifically, there had to be one, since the Y chromosome didn't come from nowhere, unless:

      1. "magic"
      2. Kaguya is a hermaphrodite

      And since Ashura + Indra = Hagoromo, logic has it that Hagoromo + Hamura = Kaguya. Only once and if a father appears can your theory about the Sharingan having been there first work.

      If Hagoromo is just 50% of Kaguya and has the Rinnegan, then she must have had the Rinnegan and more from the get-go, being the whole.

      by your logic it would be completely impossible to beat her. if all of the powers the shinobi have originated from her then that would mean there would be no way in a snowy hell they would beat her they have shown that each individual can change there own chakra nature. and alter it. develop new techniques new powers. chakra originated in her the dojutsu started in her but that doesn't mean she had the Rinnegan. all it means that the eyes he gained from her mutated when he changed his chakra nature

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    • Ten Tailed Fox wrote: Except you forget that by your own argument, Kaguya has the "power of the Sharingan". In order for Indra, then, to have a Sharingan, the Sharingan's power must also have been in Hagoromo. Regardless of whether Indra was born via chakra or genetics, this has to be true, since Hagoromo can't pass on a power he doesn't have.

      But your theory says that only the tomoe Rinnegan has the Sharingan's power, which Hagoromo didn't have, meaning that in your theory, the Sharingan either A) is a derivative of the Rinnegan (which is a theory that requires genetics), or B) the Sharingan popped out of nowhere.

      Which is it?

      people need to realize that if kaguya has the Rinnegan and since Indra gained Hagorom's eyes then that would stand to reason since hagoromo had the Rinnegan then so would Indra. but thats not how it works. hagoromo's power was split into two 1 eyes(sharingan) 2 body since it requires both the power of the eyes and body to have the Rinnegan that would stand to reason that the Rinnegan was a unique eye created by Hagoromo via selective mutation or selective self evolution(ie when he learned chakra control he developed his chakra learned to change his chakra nature and evolved what he was likely born with(the sharingan) since hagoromo had yin yang release in the form of creation of all things which can breath life into anything it would stand to reason that he could maybe evolve his own dojutsu also since kaguya had both the byakugan and sharingan it she would have no reason to favor 1 eye over the other and further evolve her sharingan the people who believe that its impossible for hagoromo to have developed his dojutsu to a more advanced form than kaguya because that would mean he was superior(not just that his single Rinnegan was superior to her single sharingan) to her fail to realize that so far in narutoverse it has shown that a child can inherit a unique trait from there parent and further evolve said trait and become superior look at neji. he was said to have the finest byakugan in the entire hyuga clan but nope according to ELV its impossible because he inherited that eye from his father

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    • JOA20 wrote: Pretty much, Kaguya had the Tomoe Rinnegan and the Byakugan, Hagoromo only the Rinnegan, Hamura only the Byakugan. Indra inherited only the tomoe that weren't manifested in his father's Rinnegan and thus had only the Sharingan which could be at best evolved to Mangekyo Sharingan.

      because by hagoromo's own words she had byakugan and sharingan not Rinnegan and if he indeed created(via training his eye) it which is the most likely. then he definitely would know if she had it or not

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    • SuperSajuuk
      SuperSajuuk removed this reply because:
      Adding nothing to the discussion.
      08:18, July 2, 2014
      This reply has been removed

      "YAAAAAAAAAAWN"

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    • He would definitely know if his mother were a monster, rait?

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    • Actionmanrandell, because Hagoromo knew everything about his mother, even that she was the Ten-Tails-

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    • Well, if what obito said is true about Hagoromo creating his sons not by usual means but by using Creation of All Things, then he mostly chose to give the older brother the Sharingan and the Yin power, the model he used for his creations is both himself and Hamura

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    • Actionmanrandell wrote: You need to learn to read. hagoromo said byakugan and sharingan not byakugan sharingan and Rinnegan get a life and stop reading to much into the term Power of. if you were to go to japan you would read that many stories have simular writing methods as in power of magic power of god etc when they say this they are not just saying the person ahs the power of magic or the person has the power of a god they are literally saying the person has magic the person is a god. and as such when kishimoto says besides the byakugan she had the power of the sharingan he is literally saying besides the byakugan she had the sharingan

      If that's the case then why did Kishimoto say that Kaguya has the Byakugan and besides that has "the power of" Sharingan and not just has "the" Sharingan, or Kaguya has "the power of" Byakugan?

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    • Georgio722 wrote:

      Actionmanrandell wrote: You need to learn to read. hagoromo said byakugan and sharingan not byakugan sharingan and Rinnegan get a life and stop reading to much into the term Power of. if you were to go to japan you would read that many stories have simular writing methods as in power of magic power of god etc when they say this they are not just saying the person ahs the power of magic or the person has the power of a god they are literally saying the person has magic the person is a god. and as such when kishimoto says besides the byakugan she had the power of the sharingan he is literally saying besides the byakugan she had the sharingan

      If that's the case then why did Kishimoto say that Kaguya has the Byakugan and besides that has "the power of" Sharingan and not just has "the" Sharingan, or Kaguya has "the power of" Byakugan?

      This has been answered before. In Japanese culture and the way they speak/write. "the power of" means in -Plain English- that SHE HAD IT. The physical object. If they say "she had the power of God" then it would basically mean -in plain English- She was God. GET IT?

      In this regard he was not "reading too much into it". It's how the Japanese speak and the meaning behind that short phrase that goes with it. We English speaking people do not attach the same meaning because we don't share the same culture and mannerisms. A lot of the original meaning gets lost in translation.

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    • 183.76.114.25
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