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Narutopedia

Wikia's view on cc-by-sa

  • In case anyone is interested, after discussion with SemanticDrifter through a series of special contact about a wiki using our content without proper attribution after being notified since October 19th.

    http://community.wikia.com/wiki/Thread:632684

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    • Well that's a pretty interesting read, I have to say...

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    • So. Are they going to be doing anything about it? Or are we meant to follow the same route we've always had to?

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    • No. They think this is attributed properly. Also prior to that the wiki couldn't be deleted for the violations of the license on our content. And that I had to do the legwork to find all the violations, because there was content besides from our wiki, despite it also being content from other wikis that was not attributed. Since apparently only people who contributed to or are admins of the wiki with the content can ask for removal. As of yesterday I also contacted admins on wikis that also had content taken without attribution.

      So I believe the lesson here is take content without attributing from as many places as possible and when asked to attribute, ignore the request for a few months, do it wrong the next, and then do it wrong again and have wikia approve of it.

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    • Wow, I like their version of the article much better "runs for cover"

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    • @SimAnt, sometimes I wonder if it's even worth it to do that any more. That wikia literally has it's whole arc section transcribed from here. I just say sometimes that they won't get far; Narutopedia already has all the notoriety.

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    • @Cerez365, I know that wiki won't even get 100000th of the traffic we do. But it is a matter of principle. Narutopedia editors have spent years constructing the content on this wiki. And it is not right for people to use it without following the license properly.

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    • I totally agree with you Simant, it's an insult to years of editors who've made this wiki as big as it is right now for people to steal content without attributing it. :/

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    • I know. I share those sentiments by when the system doesn't really support our case. I think short of maliciously wrecking their site which is pointless, well continue to fight an uphill battle with them.

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    • Really if anyone could comment...

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    • Simant wrote: Really if anyone could comment...

      Consider "highlighting" the thread so everyone will see it. ;)

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    • @SimAnt, are there any steps that you have in mind that we can toss towards sorting this out o.O?

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    • Well I stated my point of view on the requirement to keep references to the license intact and asked for citation for their point of view and got:
      "I have explained our position on this matter. Our stance is that attribution is satisfied by a stable url link to the original source material. I don't agree with your interpretation of the specific stated terms you mentioned, but I don't think it would be helpful to engage in a tautological argument over the meaning of the license terms, because we will keep circling due to the difference of interpretation."

      Clearly that doesn't follow what I read in the license or what is written on wikipedia's article on cc-by-sa

      If you search the license for the terms "keep intact" or "part of these credits", clearly it doesn't intend for what wikia is stating.

      @Speysider, I didn't think it was appropriate to bother every single reader with something that not everyone understands.

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    • Hey again, thought I'd pop over (as I mentioned on the Community thread, I've had to deal with a number of copyright issues myself).

      From what I've heard from speaking with other admins, licensing is very much a "results may vary" situation. Which indeed can be an annoying situation, to say the least…

      IMO, the whole problem is CC-BY-SA. It's not as all-encompassing as a full and proper copyright, especially since it's technically all Wikia (meaning there's a link to the license on every page, techniaclly). So instead of sending in a complaint of a copyright violation, we'd have to contact an admin there to request attribution. It's also an insult to wikis considering how many just go about and take all of their articles from other wikis.

      Honestly, I do find it a bit odd that staff messaged the user in question instead of waiting the standard amount of time before a forced removal of the pages in question. I've never seen that in other licensing issues.

      I had a similar issue with another wiki myself. Both I and admins from other wikis whose content was used sans-attribution spoke previously and all left messages requesting attribution. After the specified time frame, one of us contacted staff on behalf of the group with links of copied articles and the source, sorted by wiki. Staff then took pretty immediate action.

      However… there's one possibility y'all might could still try… That wiki includes pages from a number of series owned by various companies. One of them is Disney, which is known for being very strict about copyright. One possibility is contacting them regarding the use of their material (including video) as they might decide to order a take-down notice. But it may be a long shot, honestly…

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    • Lhikan634 wrote: Honestly, I do find it a bit odd that staff messaged the user in question instead of waiting the standard amount of time before a forced removal of the pages in question. I've never seen that in other licensing issues.

      I had a similar issue with another wiki myself. Both I and admins from other wikis whose content was used sans-attribution spoke previously and all left messages requesting attribution. After the specified time frame, one of us contacted staff on behalf of the group with links of copied articles and the source, sorted by wiki. Staff then took pretty immediate action.

      Strange, I've never had them take that approach unless the wiki was inactive.

      From what I read in the FAQ on CC-BY-SA, an initial violation of the cc-by-sa 3.0 license revokes the persons right to use it unless they get express permission from the license holder. http://wiki.creativecommons.org/Frequently_Asked_Questions#How_can_I_lose_my_rights_under_a_Creative_Commons_license.3F_If_that_happens.2C_how_do_I_get_them_back.3F

      I know this community didn't have any discussion regarding giving express permission back to that wiki to use our content...

      Also I have gone through many of the examples of attribution on the creative commons site and have never seen any example that would point to a single link to a non-dedicated attribution page being valid, and all the examples keep the attribution together in one place.

      The only reference I can find own my own to what wikia is stating is in the FAQ "Additionally, you may satisfy the attribution requirement by providing a link to a place where the attribution information may be found", but that obviously doesn't remove the requirements of prominence and clear labeling.

      I think contacting Disney itself is a bit over the top, and would be an absolute last resort.

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    • So the license says there is an automatic termination for breach of the license for someone reusing the work (7a). The license also says the license is the entire agreement and there are no understandings, agreements or representations that are not stated (8e). The only leeway comes from a court that the jurisdiction the license is sought to be enforced in (8f). The 4.0 version of the license changes this to add a 30 day period to correct mistakes.

      I've clarified with Wikia that we are using an unmodified version of the license. So I guess you can all assume what Wikia chose to do after the user ignored me for over a month, and took 2 more months to add a bottom of the page link.

      ... ... ...

      That is right, they are not going to delete it.

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    • 54.81.77.217
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