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== Background cleanup ==
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{{ArchiveList}}
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==Chapter 681: Tobirama Disposing of Madara's Corpse==
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Hey, guys, I wanted to bring something up. Regarding the new information from the chapter that was added to Tobirama, are we absolutely sure that he was the one to dispose of Madara's corpse? The translations for MangaStream doesn't mention him at all, but MangaPanda's translations do. I don't trust MangaPanda like many others, so can someone clarify this for me? --'''[[User:NinjaSheik|<span style="color:#FBEC5D;">Ninja</span>]][[User talk:NinjaSheik|<span style="color:#87CEFA;">Sheik</span>]]''' 23:23, June 18, 2014 (UTC)
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:Wow I didn't even see that. I say don't trust Mangapanda. I've seen them leave entire pages untranslated. I would vote that we omit the info until Seelentau can verify it. I thought it was odd that Tobirama couldn't tell his own technique was being used against him.--[[User:Cerez365|Cerez<small>365</small><sup>™</sup>]][[File:Hyuga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 23:36, June 18, 2014 (UTC)
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::To be honest, both scanlations have had its fair share of mistranslations for a while now. If you want to know if the scanlation is good, know about the translation instead of the scanlation site. They don't necessarily always use the same translators. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 00:27, June 19, 2014 (UTC)
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:::Has this been added yet? At quick glance, I didn't see it--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 22:53, June 25, 2014 (UTC)
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::::Do we have a raw that actually says Tobirama did something with the corpse?--[[User:TheUltimate3|'''TheUltimate3''']] [[File:Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg|20px]][[User Talk:TheUltimate3| <sup>(talk)</sup>]] 22:58, June 25, 2014 (UTC)
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:::::I believe so. The viz said so in the least--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 23:06, June 25, 2014 (UTC)
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::::::Good enough for me. Add it.--[[User:TheUltimate3|'''TheUltimate3''']] [[File:Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg|20px]][[User Talk:TheUltimate3| <sup>(talk)</sup>]] 23:08, June 25, 2014 (UTC)
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:::::::We may also need an article for "Tobirama's laboratory hidden in forests"--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 23:27, June 25, 2014 (UTC)
   
[[Second Hokage#Background]] contains content that has nothing to do with the Second Hokage but has to do only with either Hashirama or Madara. --'''[[User:Kakashi Namikaze|Kakashi Namikaze]]''' <sup>[[User talk:Kakashi Namikaze|Talk]], [[Special:Contributions/Kakashi Namikaze|Contribs]]</sup> 20:55, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
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== Hand on wall ==
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Make up your mind people. Twice today I've seen the cracking wall with hand being attributed to different things, namely chakra and physical strength. Resolve the issue here. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 23:28, June 19, 2014 (UTC)
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:Why not [[Chakra Enhanced Strength|both]]? "genius" but what about the finger thing? That's fishy--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 11:31, June 20, 2014 (UTC)
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::It did not look like he pushed, he barely even moved....to me, it looks like he used his chakra to crack the wall. [[User:Norleon|Norleon]] ([[User talk:Norleon|talk]]) 10:06, June 22, 2014 (UTC)
   
== Third databook ==
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=== Revival ===
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Bringing up old topics again :/ but what is the consensus here? Yesterday it was just back and forth weather he is just strong or it was chakra. What is the decision? --[[User:Youngjusticeplayer007|Youngjusticeplayer007]] ([[User talk:Youngjusticeplayer007|talk]]) 14:53, July 11, 2014 (UTC)
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:Either just released chakra to crack to wall or used chakra enhanced strength, but definitely not physical strength. If he were so strong that touching a wall would crack it, he would have had troubles going into bed, since it would break under him--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 15:32, July 11, 2014 (UTC)
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::Well i'll leave that in your hands weather it's chakra or chakra enhanced strength and i'll just edit his page when its open again or list him as a user.--[[User:Youngjusticeplayer007|Youngjusticeplayer007]] ([[User talk:Youngjusticeplayer007|talk]]) 16:00, July 11, 2014 (UTC)
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:::It actually can be raw strength. It was plainly stated that Tsunade has monstrous strength even without chakra enhancement. {{Unsigned|Steveo920|July 11, 2014 12:52}}
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::::Im not saying it can't be but im skeptical since its not something he's really known for, nor did he really ever show much physical strength again.--[[User:Youngjusticeplayer007|Youngjusticeplayer007]] ([[User talk:Youngjusticeplayer007|talk]]) 16:58, July 11, 2014 (UTC)
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:::::@Steve, not as monstrous as you believe. She can crush rocks with her hand, but even that doesn't equal cracking a wall by gently placing a hand--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 17:07, July 11, 2014 (UTC)
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::::::Look at her page, it clearly has said for years on the physical prowess section she is that strong. {{Unsigned|Steveo920|July 11, 2014 17:14}}
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:::::::So? The page isn't a valid source and is obviously wrong and should be corrected. What she did with the finger wasn't raw strength.--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 17:22, July 11, 2014 (UTC)
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::::::::What's your explanation on Guy and A, who both use physical conditioning more than chakra boosting? I'm not saying Tobirama can lift tailed beasts or something, just that he has considerable raw strength. Lots of character show deceptive strength like this. {{Unsigned|Steveo920|July 11, 2014 17:39}}
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:::::::::They are still human. Without the use of chakra or perhaps some kekkei genkai, their muscles are no different than ours. Guy is muscular for sure, but most his strength comes from Eight Gates. Even tho it isn't seen and he may not announce "gate open" each time, he uses the first game in the least each time he does a feat of supernatural strength. A is even more muscular and uses Lightning Armor to boost his strength to that point.--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 17:52, July 11, 2014 (UTC)
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:"Still Human". Then by that logic, they can't breath fire, create clones of themselves, etc. This is a cartoon, things get illogical and dramatized all the time. If Tobirama should a level of enhanced strength once, it doesn't create a whole new dimension for the entire show. Just cause we didn't see Tobirama exert his hand doesn't mean he didn't. {{Unsigned|Steveo902|July 11, 2014 18:13}}
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::Those things you listed are done with chakra last time I checked. None of the hundreds generic ninja have super strength, confirms that humans in the manga normally can't create craters with muscles alone. Not sure why you try so hard to overhype things.--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 21:28, July 11, 2014 (UTC)
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:::I am NOT trying to overhype anything. I just call it as I see it. Tobirama showed his chakra prowess when he intimidated Team Hawk and Orochimaru. When Tobirama talked about his true strength as a reincarnation, he said nothing about his chakra capacities. The Impure World Technique dilutes the summoned user's physical capacities, the chakra quality remains unchanged. {{Unsigned|Steveo920|July 11, 2014 21:35}}
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::::"the impure world technique dilutes the sommoned user's physical capacities, the chakra quality remains unchanged" and where did you get that from?--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 21:43, July 11, 2014 (UTC)
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:::::From the fact that they have unlimited reserves of chakra, as noted by Madara. {{Unsigned|Steveo920|July 12, 2014 1:07}}
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:Unlimited chakra = chakra at full power--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 14:56, July 12, 2014 (UTC)
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::::::Exactly. The reincarations' chakra is already at full power, but the physical prowess is just shy of it. {{Unsigned|Steveo920|July 12, 2014 15:06}}
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:::::::... '_. I meant to write unlimited chakra =/= chakra at full power. There's no evidence at all for your claims.--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 15:38, July 12, 2014 (UTC)
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::::::::Chapter 591, page 17, Madara clearly said "limitless chakra". {{Unsigned|Steveo920|July 12, 2014 16:42}}
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:::::::::Amount of chakra isn't the same as the chakra's power. When they get reincarnated weaker, it is with weaker chakra, not less physical strength.--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 18:54, July 12, 2014 (UTC)
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:This isn't like in Dragonballz where one's strength is directly linked to their physical might. Tobirama was talking about his might as a ninja. {{Unsigned|Steveo920|July 12, 2014 19:25}}
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::Not sure about you, but I've lost interest in the argument halfway-through. Let's just focus on other matters, kay?--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 19:47, July 12, 2014 (UTC)
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:::Truthfully, I don't want to go to war about this either. I just don't personally agree with your view point of the matter. I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just saying the way I saw it. It was just one brief demonstration and the show itself is dramatic. I say we put back in and see what others think. {{Unsigned|Steveo920|July 12, 3014 20:09}}
   
I was able to find a scan of the Second Hokage's article in the third databook (thanks to whoever uploaded it). If you want to see it, go [http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii119/kumanri/naruto%20databook%203/hokagesecondthird.jpg here]. I'll add some of the details. --[[User:ShounenSuki|ShounenSuki]] 19:26, 5 September 2008 (UTC)
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As shown with Madara from him as an edo tensei, then him brought back with rinne tensei, the edo tenseis are still much weaker all together than their real life counterparts. Madara got BETTER in everything the moment he came back to actual life, he went from tying with Hashirama as an edo tensei, to beating Tobirama and Hashirama one on one. Not to mention he only had 1 eye when he beat Naruto, then beat Tobirama, then proceeded to one shot Sasuke's punk ass. Edo Tensei's are all at best, 75% of their full power. That includes speed, strength, and chakra/stamina. It is actually the main reason naruto and sasuke appeared so strong, they were contrasted with some edo tensei's who are weaker than their life counterparts by at least 25% and thats a good margin for theses Shinobi. [[User:ItachiWasAHero|ItachiWasAHero]] ([[User talk:ItachiWasAHero|talk]]) 11:35, October 20, 2014 (UTC)
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:Even tho Edo Tensei aren't at full strength, their bodies are indestructible and they can't run out of chakra, so I'd say that evens it out. Edo Tensei can use "suicidal" moves as part of their tactics, like blowing themselves up etc.--[[User:Elveonora|'''Elve''']] {{Mod}} <sup><small>[[User talk:Elveonora|Talk Page]]|[[Special:Contributions/Elveonora|Contribs]]</small></sup> 11:46, October 20, 2014 (UTC)
   
:Are you going to add the details, that are written on this article, to his page? I'm hoping this article has some more info on him that we don't know. So little seems to be known about this hokage, and he has seen a small fraction of the attention of the first throughout the series.--[[User:SkyFlicker|SkyFlicker]] ([[User talk:SkyFlicker|talk]]) 03:18, October 7, 2009 (UTC)
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== Game-Jutsus ==
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Where are his Game-Jutsus?--{{SUBST:ERS:Benutzer:PSPMAN/sig1}} 22:30, June 21, 2014 (UTC)
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:Click the jutsu link in his infobox, see every technique he's used in every medium we have an article on. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 22:35, June 21, 2014 (UTC)
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::The Game-Jutsus are missing in his Infobox :/ Like [[Mizu Bunshin no Jutsu]]--{{SUBST:ERS:Benutzer:PSPMAN/sig1}} 09:04, June 22, 2014 (UTC)
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:::Games are not canon, and as such game jutsu aren't canon, and don't show up in the infobox. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 11:57, June 22, 2014 (UTC)
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::::Anime-Jutsus arent canon too, but they show up...--{{SUBST:ERS:Benutzer:PSPMAN/sig1}} 14:37, June 22, 2014 (UTC)
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:::::Anime follows the manga much more closely, and has much more of a plot than the games in general. Game and movie jutsu only show up when the character itself only appears in that medium. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 14:54, June 22, 2014 (UTC)
   
::So I guess the latest anime got it wrong on 'the hokage succession' and on the 'timeline of the great wars'? Because that two part jiraiya story basically showed that the first hokage was alive and gave the title to his brother, and they were both alive and then the second gave the title to sarutobi? I like this latest info you added tho shounensuki, shows that the second had a much greater role than previously thought. thanks.--[[User:SkyFlicker|SkyFlicker]] ([[User talk:SkyFlicker|talk]]) 22:59, October 7, 2009 (UTC)
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== The Finger ==
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I glossed the entire article and am unable to find a mention about that finger trick. Any info on a potentially related technique or the purpose of it? [[User:Artofcreation|Artofcreation]] ([[User talk:Artofcreation|talk]]) 09:22, June 22, 2014 (UTC)
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:There's no special meaning behind it. • [[User:Seelentau|Seelentau ?]] <sup>[[User Talk:Seelentau|?]]</sup> 10:26, June 22, 2014 (UTC)
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::Then why would Hashirama demand Tobirama to put down the finger?--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 15:30, June 22, 2014 (UTC)
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:::Because it was a sign of action or so. Lke normal people clench their fists when they're getting angry. Buuut if you want to believe that Tobirama was about to use a special, dangerous, never before seen or mentioned Ubertechnique that begins with lifting the finger, do so. Hey, here's a sentence you can write in the article about that: ''When Tobirama was summoned by Orochimaru for the second time, he lifted a finger. Hashirama's demand to his brother to lower the finger indicates that Tobirama was about to use a highly dangerous technique.''. :) • [[User:Seelentau|Seelentau ?]] <sup>[[User Talk:Seelentau|?]]</sup> 15:35, June 22, 2014 (UTC)
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::::Tobirama is badass, so a finger technique wouldn't be outta his character. My bet is a one-hand version of [[Thousand Years of Death]]--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 16:32, June 22, 2014 (UTC)
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Ah, thanks Seelentau. I was thinking that if there was no actual technique involved, it was Kishi's way of advertising Tobirama's power. i.e. "Hey look at all my chakra and power! And I'm barely lifting a finger lol"... Kinda like Tsunada and her finger flick. [[User:Artofcreation|Artofcreation]] ([[User talk:Artofcreation|talk]]) 04:10, June 25, 2014 (UTC)
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:::::So wait, we can assume that the "ninjutsu canceling" Yin-Yang Release effects of the [[Truth-Seeking Ball]]s are the result of a "special, dangerous, never before seen or mentioned Ubertechnique" that magically came out of our asses, but we can't assume that Tobirama was about to do something when lifting his finger specifically released a shit ton of chakra? Alright. Being the rational individual I am, I'm going to have to call you on that one. All of you. ~ '''''[[User:Ten Tailed Fox|Ten Tailed Fox]]''''' [[File:Sasuke's Rinnegan (Purple).svg|20px|link=User talk:Ten Tailed Fox]] 06:10, June 25, 2014 (UTC)
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::::::Explain? I'm not sure exactly what you're referring to with the Truth-seeking Balls. If it's about how articles concerning it are named/written, then that is simply its own issue. [[User:Artofcreation|Artofcreation]] ([[User talk:Artofcreation|talk]]) 02:11, June 27, 2014 (UTC)
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:::::::I don't assume that, Fox. o.o And yes, Tobirama was about to do something when he lifted that finger: Showing his strength and intimidating the others. But no technique. • [[User:Seelentau|Seelentau ?]] <sup>[[User Talk:Seelentau|?]]</sup> 08:32, June 27, 2014 (UTC)
   
:::You're welcome. The Second Hokage deserved some more attention.
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== what the freaking hell?!?!?! ==
:::Oh, and yes, the anime got things wrong. Again. --[[User:ShounenSuki|ShounenSuki]] <sup>([[User_talk:ShounenSuki|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/ShounenSuki|contribs]])</sup> 23:47, October 7, 2009 (UTC)
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Can anyone explain to me where this comes from?
::::So I guess that was all there was to the article? Nothing more about his combat abilities or such?--[[User:SkyFlicker|SkyFlicker]] ([[User talk:SkyFlicker|talk]]) 23:58, October 7, 2009 (UTC)
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* "Due to his Senju lineage, Tobirama inherited an extraordinary life force, as well as powerful physical energy and '''stamina'''"
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* '''"Due to the large amounts of chakra granted by his lineage,''' Tobirama was able to teleport both Naruto and Minato while in their respective Tailed Beast Modes on the battlefield without any noticeable exhaustion. Additionally, was still able to produce shadow clones despite his use of an extremely chakra taxing technique. His reserves and stamina where further displayed when after having his chakra depleted by the Shinju he was still able to follow it up with a powerful Water Release technique"
   
==Mokuton?==
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Where do people get BS such as that from? First:
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# why do people attribute Ashura and Indra traits to '''all''' and every single last of their descendants? Is it really necessary to paste "inherited strong x and y and large z and d" into characters' articles to over-hype them?
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# why do people attribute things such as stamina and large amount of chakra and other nonsense to Senju and Uzumaki despite no such things have ever been stated?
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# edo tensei have unlimited chakra I thought?--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 19:08, July 10, 2014 (UTC)
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:First of all, control your tongue. Second of all, if you find overhype within an article, do what everyone else does and remove it, so long as what you're removing isn't a legitimately sourced example of Tobirama's abilities. It really is that simple. ~ '''''[[User:Ten Tailed Fox|Ten Tailed Fox]]''''' [[File:Sasuke's Rinnegan (Purple).svg|20px|link=User talk:Ten Tailed Fox]] 19:10, July 10, 2014 (UTC)
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::Third of all, 90% of abilities sections are over-hyped :P But done, although there still is some to be cut with all the "and also"--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 19:23, July 10, 2014 (UTC)
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:::Well I made those edits and I put those I in place because I assumed it was inherit with Senju lineage my mistake. In my defense however it was already on Tsunade and Hashirama's ability sections for some time before I did it. Also it means it might as well be taken off Tsunade's chakra since it says basically the same thing. And with the Edo Tensi Omnibender explained it as such: Edo Tensei simply regenerates the users chakra rapidly seemingly giving them "unlimited" chakra. here is a link to what he said: [[Talk:Summoning: Impure World Reincarnation#Chakra: Unlimited or not]]. Anyhow his hypothesis seemed to be correct because we've seen limits of some reincarnated shinobi: Minato couldn't use FTG to save Naruto after he, Naruto and Tobirama had their chakra leeched. Second Mizukage lost a lot of chakra when he used his Steaming Danger Tyranny technique and he was noticeably winded. And probably the most obvious was with Four Red Yang Formation, Hashirama and Tobirama were limited in the amount of clones they can make but if they had this supposed "unlimited" chakra they wouldn't have been limited. --[[User:Youngjusticeplayer007|Youngjusticeplayer007]] ([[User talk:Youngjusticeplayer007|talk]]) 19:31, July 10, 2014 (UTC)
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::::Children don't inherit everything their parents have, especially not 1000x grandchildren. We don't even known what life force is and what does it mean to have strong physical energy, so adding that to every Senju and Uzumaki shrieks of fanboyism. It should be removed everywhere you see it, unless it was directly stated in manga. And I understand the Edo Tensei ordeal. Their chakra can't go to 0 and regenerates back to full, but the volume of their chakra is the same as they had in life. So if they didn't have enough chakra to perform x in life, they won't do as zombies.--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 19:49, July 10, 2014 (UTC)
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:::::Elveonora, although not directly stated, it is common sense. Why would all of Indra's descendants inherit his abilities (The Sharingan) but Asura's descendants don't inherit his? What kind of sense does that make? Indra inherited the sage's "eyes" and his powerful chakra and spiritual energy. While Asura inherited his father's "body" his powerful life-force and physical energy. If Indra's descendants got the "eyes" why wouldn't Asura's descendants get the "body". I mean, the Senju would need to have something special in order to be able to compete with the Uchiha and be able to defeat them anyway. --[[User:Legendary Super Saiya-Jin 4|Legendary Super Saiya-Jin 4]] ([[User talk:Legendary Super Saiya-Jin 4|talk]]) 16:06, July 11, 2014 (UTC)
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::::::But all of them don't inherit the stuff to the same degree. We can't just assume x Senju's lifeforce and physical energy are super duper strong just because he/she is a Senju. Take [[Uruchi Uchiha]] for example, I doubt she had "powerful chakra and spiritual energy" and even if Tobirama did, that's not a reason to add it there, people can work that out themselves--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 16:20, July 11, 2014 (UTC)
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:::::::Well yes, but I don't see why assuming that strong members of the clan who were shinobi having inherited Asura's abilities is complete speculation. Uruchi Uchiha was probably not even a ninja and she could have married into the clan for all we know. I also never said to the same degree, but I still believe it is worth mentioning to some extent. Especially considering the Uzumaki have it and they come from Asura just like the Senju do, and they were even less powerful and not as relevant as the Senju were at all in any point in history. --[[User:Legendary Super Saiya-Jin 4|Legendary Super Saiya-Jin 4]] ([[User talk:Legendary Super Saiya-Jin 4|talk]]) 16:25, July 11, 2014 (UTC)
   
I was just wondering, if Tobirama is of the Senju clan, can't he use mokuton techniques? I know that we have not seen him use any but he does use water, (which counts as half of the mokuton combination) and isn't it a kekkei genkai, meaning that it is passed down from generation to generation?
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== Shadow Clone Technique ==
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Can someone add the Shadow Clone Technique under Tobirama's jutsus. I find it silly that the man created the technique and we've seen him use it, and he doesn't have it listed under his arsenal. Unfortunately, my skills with technology are about the same level as an old man's... --[[User:Aclarke9913|Aclarke9913]] ([[User talk:Aclarke9913|talk]]) 17:18, July 15, 2014 (UTC)
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:That woud be nice. [[User:FlyingRaijinGod|FlyingRaijinGod]] ([[User talk:FlyingRaijinGod|talk]]) 06:17, August 6, 2014 (UTC)
   
Just a thought... [[User:Shikamaru1994|Shikamaru1994]] 23:57, 12 November 2008 (UTC)Shikamaru1994
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== The Flying Thunder God Technique ==
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In the manga, it is not shown that Tobirama used a marked/tagged kunai to attack Izuna, where as in the anime it is. It is thought that Minato was the first to use marked/tagged Kunai for the technique, where in Naruto Shippuden episode 368 "The Era of Waring States" which takes long before Minato's time, Tobirama does so to injure Izuna. I believe this needs to be added, as this is an important bit of information. [[User:FlyingRaijinGod|FlyingRaijinGod]] ([[User talk:FlyingRaijinGod|talk]]) 09:25, August 4, 2014 (UTC)
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:Tobirama did use a marked kunai against Madara in the manga as well. Madara also implied that Tobirama was well known for tricks like that, so it's nothing new in the end. [[User:Norleon|Norleon]] ([[User talk:Norleon|talk]]) 09:33, August 4, 2014 (UTC)
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::Not to mention thrown Kunai is the only way the scene makes sense, otherwise there wouldn't have been any other way to teleport to Izuna, unless he marked Izuna himself.--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 13:10, August 4, 2014 (UTC)
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::: Exactly! It was never shown or stated outright that he ever touched Izuna, it went out of it's way to specify the kunai as the seal source. I believe its important to credit Tobirama with because it /did/ happen. Fandom aside isn't it important to credit those who have earned that credit? you wouldn't leave out that Minato used Rasengan long before his son! [[User:FlyingRaijinGod|FlyingRaijinGod]] ([[User talk:FlyingRaijinGod|talk]]) 23:19, August 4, 2014 (UTC)
   
:Mokuton is said to be unique to the First Hokage. Only those with the (almost) exact same genetic make-up as him can use Mokuton.
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== Seal ==
:It's called a Kekkei genkai because it's a genetic trait that allows one to fuse two elements into a new one (something that is considered a Kekkei genkai). However, it was simply never passed don to his descendants and is usually treated like a unique technique (which is why it was called a Hiden Jutsu in the second databook). --[[User:ShounenSuki|ShounenSuki]] 00:27, 13 November 2008 (UTC)
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The anime went out of its way to show the seal on the kunai, i find it imperative that this be added to the wiki as i have tried a few times to no avail. Why? because it is common belief that Minato was the first to use marked kunai, which is INCORRECT. is it not the goal of these wiki's to be as accurate as possible? please do not take my adamacy for hostility. i'm a huge fan of the character and believe in credit where credit is due. [[User:FlyingRaijinGod|FlyingRaijinGod]] ([[User talk:FlyingRaijinGod|talk]]) 11:43, August 4, 2014 (UTC)
   
== Water Dragon Jutsu ==
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:@FlyingRaijinGod, common belief of who? Fandom? They have right to belive what they want, this does not correlate with page in any of ways. If you have link(on this wiki) where it is stated that Minato was the first to use marked kunai, then edit it. Otherwise this can hardly find its place even in trivia due low value. [[User:Rage gtx|Rage gtx]] ([[User talk:Rage gtx|talk]]) 12:22, August 4, 2014 (UTC)
   
When did he use this? did he only use it in the manga? cuz i know he didnt use it in the anime, so im not sure? --[[User:AMTNinja|AMTNinja]] 08:59, 29 December 2008 (UTC)
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:::It's mentioned in the page that Tobirama used marked kunais too, he created the technique so of course he used marked kunai first i don't see why it's so important IMO.([[User:Kuroiraikou|Kuroiraikou]] ([[User talk:Kuroiraikou|talk]]) 12:25, August 4, 2014 (UTC))
:He uses it in the manga in chapter 120. --[[User:ShounenSuki|ShounenSuki]] 14:24, 29 December 2008 (UTC)
+
::::i find it important because it is often said Minato improved upon it by using tagged kunai, which is really no improvement at all as Tobirama did it first. This is my opinion which could totally be wrongly placed. Flying Raijin God 12:33, August 4, 2014 (UTC)
   
Did he really only use one seal for this jutsu (ignoring anime) or was only one seal shown? [[Special:Contributions/71.207.177.20|71.207.177.20]] ([[User talk:71.207.177.20|talk]]) 07:18, December 19, 2010 (UTC)
+
::::::Often said where i haven't seen it here, the technique allows the user to apply the seal anywhere applying it to a kunai first isn't noteworthy IMO.([[User:Kuroiraikou|Kuroiraikou]] ([[User talk:Kuroiraikou|talk]]) 13:15, August 4, 2014 (UTC))
  +
:::::::I would accept it even as trivia, if not considered significant enough for the main article by the majority. [[User:FlyingRaijinGod|FlyingRaijinGod]] ([[User talk:FlyingRaijinGod|talk]]) 23:21, August 4, 2014 (UTC)
   
:Only one is shown. In the manga, the only jutsu that he uses that others find impressive is [[Water Release: Water Encampment Wall]]. '''''~[[User:Snapper2|Snapper]][[User talk:Snapper2|T]][[Special:Contributions/Snapper2|o]]''''' 20:09, December 19, 2010 (UTC)
 
   
:Then why does the entry say, "could even perform the most complex of water-style jutsu with only one hand seal," and is cited with a manga page? [[User:Dragonus Nesha|Dragonus Nesha]] ([[User talk:Dragonus Nesha|talk]]) 03:52, December 20, 2010 (UTC)
+
== Chakra Nature ==
  +
Hey what is with qll these random natures? The Second Hokage only ever used water release he never displayed any other natures beside water this is really wrong. Does it state this in the databook becuase some of these natures don't go with these characters at all because they never used it in the manga or in the anime. Unless he has a kekkei genkai or tota, or mora. But, he has none of these plus it never stated he could use all natures in manga. --[[User:Tuxedo12|Tuxedo12]] ([[User talk:Tuxedo12|talk]]) 15:15, November 5, 2014 (UTC)
  +
:All the clusterfuck that you may observe happening as of late is the cause of the 4th Databook. Sue the author Masashi Kishimoto if you would like.--[[User:Elveonora|'''Elve''']] {{Mod}} <sup><small>[[User talk:Elveonora|Talk Page]]|[[Special:Contributions/Elveonora|Contribs]]</small></sup> 15:23, November 5, 2014 (UTC)
  +
I know this may not matter much, but amidst all the randomness I think it'd be a pretty good idea to keep the chakra natures all these characters use the most at the top, so every page doesn't the same. In Tobirama's case, keep the Water Release icon at the top. What do you think?--[[User:Minamoto15|Minamoto15]] ([[User talk:Minamoto15|talk]]) 16:35, November 5, 2014 (UTC)
  +
:I think we decided to list them in this order: Fire, Wind, Lightning, Earth, Water, Yin, Yang. If not, then it should be done. Or do you know which nature Sakura used more? No? Me neither. • [[User:Seelentau|Seelentau 愛]] <sup>[[User Talk:Seelentau|議]]</sup> 16:38, November 5, 2014 (UTC)
   
== Water Release ==
+
:It was just a suggesstion, nothing more. Minus the snarkiness, I appreciate your information. Thank you.--[[User:Minamoto15|Minamoto15]] ([[User talk:Minamoto15|talk]]) 16:46, November 5, 2014 (UTC)
  +
::Sorry, I'm in a bad mood today. ^^' • [[User:Seelentau|Seelentau 愛]] <sup>[[User Talk:Seelentau|議]]</sup> 16:50, November 5, 2014 (UTC)
   
This statement bothers me.
+
== Summoning ==
+
Since the databook says Tobirama had a summon should he be listed or is it just going to stay as is since we dont know weather it was just Edo Tensei or an entirely different summon?--[[User:Youngjusticeplayer007|Youngjusticeplayer007]] ([[User talk:Youngjusticeplayer007|talk]]) 06:37, December 8, 2014 (UTC)
"However, it has been speculated that he was just gathering the water vapor in the air to fuel his all powerful jutsus. It must be noted that even if this was the case the sheer quantity of water needed would necessitate gathering moisture from a very large area. Such a feat would be just as impressive as creating water from nothing."
 
 
First of all, do we really need to put speculation in the article? If there is no support for it in canon why does it matter? Secondly, how is gathering water vapor from a large area "just as impressive" as violating the law of conservation of mass? --[[User:Pocky4Cthulhu|Pocky4Cthulhu]] ([[User_talk:Pocky4Cthulhu|talk]]) 16:40, 18 April 2009 (UTC)
 
 
:Agreed, changed sentence to "being able to make use of powerful Water jutsu in areas where there were no bodies of water." No place for speculation. Besides there's yet another possibility. Kishimoto could have just decided to violate physics like he does all the time, have him gather water vapor, or heck he could be summoning water from a big lake. All we know is we don't know a thing. ~<span style="font-weight: bold;" title="Dantman does not work for Wikia">NOTASTAFF</span> [[User:Dantman|Daniel Friesen]]<small> (DanTMan, Nadir Seen Fire)</small> <sup>([[User_talk:Dantman|talk]])</sup> <small>Apr 18, 2009 <sub>@</sub> 20:40 <sup>(UTC)</sup></small>
 
 
:Hey umm i just went over the battle of the Hokages in the manga and noticed that when Sarutobi uses Fire Style: Dragon Flame Bombs and Tobirama counters it with his water wall he's spitting out the water ,unlike in the anime where he simply formed a Water Wall.Should we add that to the page.The link is right here http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/120/03/
 
[[User:Deathreaper|Deathreaper]] 23:55, 5 October 2009 hate to post something late but it does show him spitting the water out of his mouth. dradoow
 
 
most likely he release chakra around him and convert the chakra in to water.[[User:Linkdarkside|Linkdarkside]] ([[User talk:Linkdarkside|talk]]) 18:43, December 30, 2009 (UTC)
 
 
Well if you watch clearly you can see that he spits out a water stream in the Anime too, so his secret behind the use of extreme high techniques without existing water sources seems to be creating water from his own chakrra like Kisame, and then use it for suiton jutsus, that should be added, btw under appearance someone should add that he has his holster on his upper arms!!! --[[User:Grave Blashyrkh|Grave Blashyrkh]] ([[User_talk:Grave Blashyrkh|talk]]) 17:28, 6 March 2010 (UTC)
 
 
== Water + Sword ==
 
 
I can imagine how good of a fighter he would be, if he could use water dragon bullet anywheres with one hand seal, and shove his sword into the stream. that would be one huge and fast water/lightning combo--[[User:SkyFlicker|SkyFlicker]] ([[User talk:SkyFlicker|talk]]) 21:59, October 6, 2009 (UTC)
 
1. that sword isn't real
 
2. relevance?
 
3. --[[User:Cerez365|Cerez365]] ([[User talk:Cerez365|talk]]) 18:20, June 10, 2010 (UTC)
 
 
== Affinity ==
 
 
I know its kinda dumb to ask this but when did it say his affinity is Water exactly. Even if he's good at Water Ninjutsu that doesn't mean that his affinity is water{{unsigned|Nintendo-Fan}}
 
 
He's the greatest water manipulator to ever live. That's all the information that is necessary.
 
 
== Sword of the Thunder God ==
 
 
Should we not add (Anime only) next to it? [[User:Jules R. J. Blake|Jules R. J. Blake]] ([[User talk:Jules R. J. Blake|talk]]) 01:32, January 24, 2010 (UTC)
 
:after [[Template:Infobox/Tools]] is up. [[User:Simant|Simant]] ([[User talk:Simant|talk]]) 01:34, January 24, 2010 (UTC)
 
 
== Uchiha Kagami ==
 
 
Since he was on the same team (and was the presiding leader) with an Uchiha, can it not be inferred that he did at least have some trust in the Uchiha clan? Like, can we make a note of that? {{unsigned|Horyo}}
 
 
We was not on the same team. His team and another team had a joint mission. You also don't need to trust your partners in your team. As such whether he holds even an ounce of trust for the Uchiha has never been proven so the answer is no.--[[Special:Contributions/74.233.173.126|74.233.173.126]] ([[User talk:74.233.173.126|talk]]) 07:34, April 6, 2010 (UTC)
 
 
It's not a matter that he didn't outright trust the Uchiha in the way you're making it out to be. There was still some uneasiness amongst the clans, but they weren't castrated from the village the way you're interpreting it. Hence he probably did trust Kagami and the other Uchihas as a fellow shinobi and villager, just with trepidation --[[User:Cerez365|Cerez365]] ([[User talk:Cerez365|talk]]) 14:31, June 10, 2010 (UTC)
 
 
== Abilities ==
 
 
It's been troubling me for a while but [http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/481/04/] there when Tobirama has his fingers on the ground and then he notifies his team that they're being tracked by those guys from kumo... should we take into consideration the fact that this might be a sensory ability of some sort O.o [[User:Cerez365|Cerez365]] ([[User talk:Cerez365|talk]]) 21:12, June 12, 2010 (UTC)
 
:Interesting... see if you can word that to remove speculation. - [[User talk:Simant|S<small>im</small>A<small>nt</small>]] 21:35, June 12, 2010 (UTC)
 
::"After briefly running his fingers on the ground, Tobirama was quickly able to discern that his unit was being tracked by Kumogakure's [[Kinkaku Force]]." How does that sound? We can still add something saying we don't know what is, like "Whether he was a sensor or an accomplished tracker himself is unknown." [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 21:45, June 12, 2010 (UTC)
 
Kakashi did the same when he was young. It seems more like being able to tell who is coming via the vibrations they make. As for identifying them, I would guess he did it by their number (20), and the fact that they were near Kumo and that only this team might have the courage to go after him. [[User:Thomas Finlayson|Thomas Finlayson]] ([[User talk:Thomas Finlayson|talk]]) 00:25, June 13, 2010 (UTC)
 
: Minato was the one who did it, Kakashi would've probably used smell to identify them. This probably just confirms it then O.o? [[User:Cerez365|Cerez365]] ([[User talk:Cerez365|talk]]) 20:52, June 13, 2010 (UTC)
 
::Looks like [http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/239/16/ one finger] when minato does it though. - [[User talk:Simant|S<small>im</small>A<small>nt</small>]] 21:08, June 13, 2010 (UTC)
 
:::@Cerez365: thanks for pointing out my error. [[User:Thomas Finlayson|Thomas Finlayson]] ([[User talk:Thomas Finlayson|talk]]) 22:42, June 21, 2010 (UTC)
 
:::@Simant: that may simply be a reflection of skill or accuracy in measuring how many there are. [[User:Thomas Finlayson|Thomas Finlayson]] ([[User talk:Thomas Finlayson|talk]]) 22:42, June 21, 2010 (UTC)
 
:::If more than one person does this, should we add it to the Sensor section? [[User:Thomas Finlayson|Thomas Finlayson]] ([[User talk:Thomas Finlayson|talk]]) 22:42, June 21, 2010 (UTC)
 
::::There are probably dozens of ways shinobi can gather information about their enemies . Sensor type ninja, however, seem to have the unique ability to actually sense chakra with a great degree of accuracy. --[[User:ShounenSuki|ShounenSuki]] <sup>([[User_talk:ShounenSuki|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/ShounenSuki|contribs]])</sup> 07:22, June 22, 2010 (UTC)
 
:::::I'm going to change the words, "sense" gives the idea they're both sensors. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 23:58, August 13, 2010 (UTC)
 
::::::The ability probably has something to do with the fact that they're both jikukan ninjutsu users --[[User:Cerez365|Cerez365]] ([[User talk:Cerez365|talk]]) 00:06, August 16, 2010 (UTC)
 
 
== Abilities: Impure Ressurection ==
 
 
Since he was presummably the first to create this, should we not make a comment on the skills necessary? Plus, as I understand it, it is basically a super-high-level summoning jutsu, should that not be mentionned for his abilities? [[User:Thomas Finlayson|Thomas Finlayson]] ([[User talk:Thomas Finlayson|talk]]) 22:38, July 5, 2010 (UTC)
 
:It is mentioned in his ability section. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 01:17, July 6, 2010 (UTC)
 
::That does not say that he created it, or the skills he would have had to master to actually use it. [[User:Thomas Finlayson|Thomas Finlayson]] ([[User talk:Thomas Finlayson|talk]]) 02:05, July 6, 2010 (UTC)
 
:::We don't know if he created, that's a very relevant "presumably". The only thing we know for certain is that he could use it, and that is already covered. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 21:27, July 6, 2010 (UTC)
 
::::Is it not said that only he, Oro, and Kabuto can/could use it? [[User:Thomas Finlayson|Thomas Finlayson]] ([[User talk:Thomas Finlayson|talk]]) 04:35, July 7, 2010 (UTC)
 
:::::Not necessarily relevant to mention who else can use the technique. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 20:10, July 7, 2010 (UTC)
 
My point being that he is was the first of the only known users. Plus, the fact that he would have needed key skills to use this jutsu. [[User:Thomas Finlayson|Thomas Finlayson]] ([[User talk:Thomas Finlayson|talk]]) 16:11, July 7, 2010 (UTC)
 
::::::Oddly enough he has a point. I think it'd be safe to assume he created the kinjutsu since Madara said they were the only ones who could use it --[[User:Cerez365|Cerez365]] ([[User talk:Cerez365|talk]]) 13:38, July 9, 2010 (UTC)
 
 
== Games ==
 
 
Shouldn't the games he appears in be in an "Other Media" section rather than the "Trivia" section like with the other characters? [[User:KonohaSunaKiriKumoIwa|KonohaSunaKiriKumoIwa]] ([[User talk:KonohaSunaKiriKumoIwa|talk]]) 22:23, July 6, 2010 (UTC)
 
 
== Kushina Uzumaki ==
 
 
Is there a reason that Kushina Uzumaki is listed as his Sister- In- Law? It should be Mito Uzumaki.[[Special:Contributions/98.22.73.195|98.22.73.195]] ([[User talk:98.22.73.195|talk]]) 06:24, July 9, 2010 (UTC)Ryne
 
 
== Space Time Jutsu ==
 
 
In Chapter 502 the Minato said that he could use space time ninjutsu.
 
http://mangastream.info/manga/Naruto/Naruto_502/11
 
:Additions were already made to his article--[[User:Cerez365|Cerez365]] ([[User talk:Cerez365|talk]]) 19:21, July 16, 2010 (UTC)
 
 
== Family ==
 
 
Shouldn't [[Mito Uzumaki]] be listed the family section of Tobirama's infobox? {{unsigned|71.197.220.106}}
 
 
In-laws aren't listed. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 17:59, November 24, 2010 (UTC)
 
:Not that I really care either way, but why aren't they? —[[User:ShounenSuki|ShounenSuki]] <sup>([[User_talk:ShounenSuki|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/ShounenSuki|contribs]] | [[User:ShounenSuki#Translations|translations]])</sup> 18:18, November 24, 2010 (UTC)
 
::I think it started with something you said actually, something about listing relationships that were important. It went down as listing blood relatives with known kinship, spouses, godparents/children and significant others, though that case was more because of Asuma and Kurenai. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 18:27, November 24, 2010 (UTC)
 
:::Oh yeah, I remember that... The Asuma–Kurenai matter was rather annoying... —[[User:ShounenSuki|ShounenSuki]] <sup>([[User_talk:ShounenSuki|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/ShounenSuki|contribs]] | [[User:ShounenSuki#Translations|translations]])</sup> 18:29, November 24, 2010 (UTC)
 
 
== ANBU ==
 
Where do you get from that Tobirama has organiced the ANBU?--[[Special:Contributions/77.5.39.143|77.5.39.143]] ([[User talk:77.5.39.143|talk]]) 17:25, February 3, 2011 (UTC)
 
:From the databooks --[[User:Cerez365|Cerez365]] ([[User talk:Cerez365|talk]]) 17:28, February 3, 2011 (UTC)
 
 
::From what Databook exactly? Hyo?--[[Special:Contributions/77.5.39.143|77.5.39.143]] ([[User talk:77.5.39.143|talk]]) 17:37, February 3, 2011 (UTC)
 
 
:::Hyo is a fanbook. This is from Sha (third databook). '''''~[[User:Snapper2|Snapper]][[User talk:Snapper2|T]][[Special:Contributions/Snapper2|o]]''''' 17:45, February 3, 2011 (UTC)
 
 
Did you even read the dang article? It is also confirmed in the anime and manga that he founded it {{unsigned|Donaldcp}}
 
 
==Sensor?==
 
Reading the section on his ability to sense nearby ninja by touching the ground with his index finger, doesn't also make him a sensor to a degree?[[User:Umishiru|Umishiru]] ([[User talk:Umishiru|talk]]) 02:08, February 7, 2011 (UTC)
 
 
:He didn't simply sense others, it's like he felt vibrations on the ground or something. He didn't sense the way other sensors do. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 02:10, February 7, 2011 (UTC)
 
::I'm not really sure, essentially it is a "sensory" ability, after all there are other means of sensing but then again it might just be a general skill or an ability that space-time technique users can perform after all Minato did it as well. --[[User:Cerez365|Cerez]] ([[User talk:Cerez365|talk]]) 03:06, February 7, 2011 (UTC)
 
 
== Background stuff ==
 
 
For some reason I'm not too clear here but are we to assume that the incident that occured when Tobirama was with his team and Team Danzō the same incident as the one the Raikage recalled in chapter 527? --[[User:Cerez365|Cerez]] ([[User talk:Cerez365|talk]]) 01:12, February 12, 2011 (UTC)
 
 
:I think that's right, so yes.--'''[[User:NinjaSheik|<span style="color:#FBEC5D;">Ninja</span>]][[User talk:NinjaSheik|<span style="color:#87CEFA;">Sheik</span>]]''' 01:14, February 12, 2011 (UTC)
 
:I thought the Raikage said that Tobirama was left on the verge of death at the coup d'etat attempt, and he actually died at the incident with Team Danzō. Or am I also confused? ~ '''''[[User:Fmakck|Fmakck]] → [[User talk:Fmakck|Talk]] → [[Special:Contributions/Fmakck|Contributions]]''''' 01:19, February 12, 2011 (UTC)
 
:I think we should treat them as separate events until we have a definitive link between the two (either courtesy of a better translation of 527 or a future chapter). '''''~[[User:Snapper2|Snapper]][[User talk:Snapper2|T]][[Special:Contributions/Snapper2|o]]''''' 01:43, February 12, 2011 (UTC)
 
 
== missile of water ==
 
 
In episode 71 of naruto classic tobirama spear missile of water in hizuren, no should we put one page for that jutsu, equal the article -Lava Release: Lava Geyser- that was named without no certainty of name of article then i think that we could make a article with the name
 
-Water Release: Water Missile- please me respond. {{unsigned|Bjusdonaruto}}
 
:From your description, it's probably [[Water Release: Water Dragon Bullet Technique]]. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 02:13, September 17, 2011 (UTC)
 
::Yeah, I always thought that was the anime's representation of it. Though it does look more like missiles and sorta like the water version of Fukasaku's Fighting Tongue Slash.--[[User talk:Cerez365|Cerez<sub>365</sub>™]] [[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]] 13:37, September 17, 2011 (UTC)
 
 
== Banned edo tensei ==
 
 
Edo tensei? How do we know he banned it?{{unsigned|78.33.55.238}}
 
:That'd probably be from that databooks. It's categorised as a kinjutsu, hence it's "banned"--[[User talk:Cerez365|Cerez<sub>365</sub>™]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]] 11:00, September 28, 2011 (UTC)
 
::Aside from it being listed as a kinjutsu, didn't Kabuto mention that Tobirama banned it? [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 21:35, September 28, 2011 (UTC)
 
 
== Add to trivia? ==
 
 
On this page here [http://www.mangareader.net/93-128-11/naruto/chapter-123.html] his right eye goes normal when the Third is sealing him. I haven't noticed it on any other chapters before. Worth a mention? It's not a scanning mistake either, it's pretty clear to see the difference. [[User:SusanooUnleashed|SusanooUnleashed]] ([[User talk:SusanooUnleashed|talk]]) 04:11, January 23, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
Doesn't something similar to that happen to everyone before Edo Tensei wears off an their soul departs? [[User:Skitts|Skitts]] ([[User talk:Skitts|talk]]) 04:21, January 23, 2012 (UTC)
 
:It does, it's when the summoner loses control of the edo tensei. The same thing happened to Nagato when he was being sealed, it's just that the Second's eye colour that makes it more apparent.--[[User talk:Cerez365|Cerez<sub>365</sub>™]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]] 10:02, January 23, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
Irony galore. He is the 2nd Hokage (Fire Shadow) and he uses water jutsu
 
 
By your logic Minato nor Tsuande fit whether. A kage title does not dictate what jutsu a ninja should use.[[User:Umishiru|Umishiru]] ([[User talk:Umishiru|talk]]) 16:16, April 6, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
== Best water style user ==
 
 
 
Why does it say in his abilities section that he's revered as the best water user in the entire series, when the reference used for that remark states no such thing? Yes, "creating water where there is no water" seems impressive on the surface, but he was merely transforming his chakra into water; a concept that wasn't full fleshed-out until the second part of the series, so what he did back then is practically commonplace. In the times he used water jutsu, the first jutsu he used created water from his mouth [As with most water jutsu], while the second manipulates the water he just created. He never at any point actually literally creates water out of thin air like that portion of the article mentioned. Was he mentioned to create water out of thin air, and be the greatest water user in a databook or something?
 
 
[[User:Wreiad|Wreiad]] ([[User talk:Wreiad|talk]]) 01:41, June 28, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
== Birthdate/Zodiac sign ==
 
 
I read that Tobirama is born on February 19, so shouldn't he be a Pisces instead of an Aquarius?
 
 
[[User:Dreamkiller0826|Dreamkiller0826]] ([[User talk:Dreamkiller0826|talk]]) 16:23, December 29, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
I recall reading a discussion about this somewhere in the wiki. Don't quote me on this, but this might have to do with some peculiarity of the Japanese. This topic has appeared in someone else's talk page. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 17:57, December 29, 2012 (UTC)
 

Latest revision as of 06:37, December 8, 2014

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Chapter 681: Tobirama Disposing of Madara's CorpseEdit

Hey, guys, I wanted to bring something up. Regarding the new information from the chapter that was added to Tobirama, are we absolutely sure that he was the one to dispose of Madara's corpse? The translations for MangaStream doesn't mention him at all, but MangaPanda's translations do. I don't trust MangaPanda like many others, so can someone clarify this for me? --NinjaSheik 23:23, June 18, 2014 (UTC)

Wow I didn't even see that. I say don't trust Mangapanda. I've seen them leave entire pages untranslated. I would vote that we omit the info until Seelentau can verify it. I thought it was odd that Tobirama couldn't tell his own technique was being used against him.--Cerez36520px(talk) 23:36, June 18, 2014 (UTC)
To be honest, both scanlations have had its fair share of mistranslations for a while now. If you want to know if the scanlation is good, know about the translation instead of the scanlation site. They don't necessarily always use the same translators. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 00:27, June 19, 2014 (UTC)
Has this been added yet? At quick glance, I didn't see it--Elveonora (talk) 22:53, June 25, 2014 (UTC)
Do we have a raw that actually says Tobirama did something with the corpse?--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol (talk) 22:58, June 25, 2014 (UTC)
I believe so. The viz said so in the least--Elveonora (talk) 23:06, June 25, 2014 (UTC)
Good enough for me. Add it.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol (talk) 23:08, June 25, 2014 (UTC)
We may also need an article for "Tobirama's laboratory hidden in forests"--Elveonora (talk) 23:27, June 25, 2014 (UTC)

Hand on wall Edit

Make up your mind people. Twice today I've seen the cracking wall with hand being attributed to different things, namely chakra and physical strength. Resolve the issue here. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:28, June 19, 2014 (UTC)

Why not both? "genius" but what about the finger thing? That's fishy--Elveonora (talk) 11:31, June 20, 2014 (UTC)
It did not look like he pushed, he barely even moved....to me, it looks like he used his chakra to crack the wall. Norleon (talk) 10:06, June 22, 2014 (UTC)

Revival Edit

Bringing up old topics again :/ but what is the consensus here? Yesterday it was just back and forth weather he is just strong or it was chakra. What is the decision? --Youngjusticeplayer007 (talk) 14:53, July 11, 2014 (UTC)

Either just released chakra to crack to wall or used chakra enhanced strength, but definitely not physical strength. If he were so strong that touching a wall would crack it, he would have had troubles going into bed, since it would break under him--Elveonora (talk) 15:32, July 11, 2014 (UTC)
Well i'll leave that in your hands weather it's chakra or chakra enhanced strength and i'll just edit his page when its open again or list him as a user.--Youngjusticeplayer007 (talk) 16:00, July 11, 2014 (UTC)
It actually can be raw strength. It was plainly stated that Tsunade has monstrous strength even without chakra enhancement. —This unsigned comment was made by Steveo920 (talkcontribs) on July 11, 2014 12:52.
Im not saying it can't be but im skeptical since its not something he's really known for, nor did he really ever show much physical strength again.--Youngjusticeplayer007 (talk) 16:58, July 11, 2014 (UTC)
@Steve, not as monstrous as you believe. She can crush rocks with her hand, but even that doesn't equal cracking a wall by gently placing a hand--Elveonora (talk) 17:07, July 11, 2014 (UTC)
Look at her page, it clearly has said for years on the physical prowess section she is that strong. —This unsigned comment was made by Steveo920 (talkcontribs) on July 11, 2014 17:14.
So? The page isn't a valid source and is obviously wrong and should be corrected. What she did with the finger wasn't raw strength.--Elveonora (talk) 17:22, July 11, 2014 (UTC)
What's your explanation on Guy and A, who both use physical conditioning more than chakra boosting? I'm not saying Tobirama can lift tailed beasts or something, just that he has considerable raw strength. Lots of character show deceptive strength like this. —This unsigned comment was made by Steveo920 (talkcontribs) on July 11, 2014 17:39.
They are still human. Without the use of chakra or perhaps some kekkei genkai, their muscles are no different than ours. Guy is muscular for sure, but most his strength comes from Eight Gates. Even tho it isn't seen and he may not announce "gate open" each time, he uses the first game in the least each time he does a feat of supernatural strength. A is even more muscular and uses Lightning Armor to boost his strength to that point.--Elveonora (talk) 17:52, July 11, 2014 (UTC)
"Still Human". Then by that logic, they can't breath fire, create clones of themselves, etc. This is a cartoon, things get illogical and dramatized all the time. If Tobirama should a level of enhanced strength once, it doesn't create a whole new dimension for the entire show. Just cause we didn't see Tobirama exert his hand doesn't mean he didn't. —This unsigned comment was made by Steveo902 (talkcontribs) on July 11, 2014 18:13.
Those things you listed are done with chakra last time I checked. None of the hundreds generic ninja have super strength, confirms that humans in the manga normally can't create craters with muscles alone. Not sure why you try so hard to overhype things.--Elveonora (talk) 21:28, July 11, 2014 (UTC)
I am NOT trying to overhype anything. I just call it as I see it. Tobirama showed his chakra prowess when he intimidated Team Hawk and Orochimaru. When Tobirama talked about his true strength as a reincarnation, he said nothing about his chakra capacities. The Impure World Technique dilutes the summoned user's physical capacities, the chakra quality remains unchanged. —This unsigned comment was made by Steveo920 (talkcontribs) on July 11, 2014 21:35.
"the impure world technique dilutes the sommoned user's physical capacities, the chakra quality remains unchanged" and where did you get that from?--Elveonora (talk) 21:43, July 11, 2014 (UTC)
From the fact that they have unlimited reserves of chakra, as noted by Madara. —This unsigned comment was made by Steveo920 (talkcontribs) on July 12, 2014 1:07.
Unlimited chakra = chakra at full power--Elveonora (talk) 14:56, July 12, 2014 (UTC)
Exactly. The reincarations' chakra is already at full power, but the physical prowess is just shy of it. —This unsigned comment was made by Steveo920 (talkcontribs) on July 12, 2014 15:06.
... '_. I meant to write unlimited chakra =/= chakra at full power. There's no evidence at all for your claims.--Elveonora (talk) 15:38, July 12, 2014 (UTC)
Chapter 591, page 17, Madara clearly said "limitless chakra". —This unsigned comment was made by Steveo920 (talkcontribs) on July 12, 2014 16:42.
Amount of chakra isn't the same as the chakra's power. When they get reincarnated weaker, it is with weaker chakra, not less physical strength.--Elveonora (talk) 18:54, July 12, 2014 (UTC)
This isn't like in Dragonballz where one's strength is directly linked to their physical might. Tobirama was talking about his might as a ninja. —This unsigned comment was made by Steveo920 (talkcontribs) on July 12, 2014 19:25.
Not sure about you, but I've lost interest in the argument halfway-through. Let's just focus on other matters, kay?--Elveonora (talk) 19:47, July 12, 2014 (UTC)
Truthfully, I don't want to go to war about this either. I just don't personally agree with your view point of the matter. I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just saying the way I saw it. It was just one brief demonstration and the show itself is dramatic. I say we put back in and see what others think. —This unsigned comment was made by Steveo920 (talkcontribs) on July 12, 3014 20:09.

As shown with Madara from him as an edo tensei, then him brought back with rinne tensei, the edo tenseis are still much weaker all together than their real life counterparts. Madara got BETTER in everything the moment he came back to actual life, he went from tying with Hashirama as an edo tensei, to beating Tobirama and Hashirama one on one. Not to mention he only had 1 eye when he beat Naruto, then beat Tobirama, then proceeded to one shot Sasuke's punk ass. Edo Tensei's are all at best, 75% of their full power. That includes speed, strength, and chakra/stamina. It is actually the main reason naruto and sasuke appeared so strong, they were contrasted with some edo tensei's who are weaker than their life counterparts by at least 25% and thats a good margin for theses Shinobi. ItachiWasAHero (talk) 11:35, October 20, 2014 (UTC)

Even tho Edo Tensei aren't at full strength, their bodies are indestructible and they can't run out of chakra, so I'd say that evens it out. Edo Tensei can use "suicidal" moves as part of their tactics, like blowing themselves up etc.--Elve [Moderator] Talk Page|Contribs 11:46, October 20, 2014 (UTC)

Game-Jutsus Edit

Where are his Game-Jutsus?--{{SUBST:ERS:Benutzer:PSPMAN/sig1}} 22:30, June 21, 2014 (UTC)

Click the jutsu link in his infobox, see every technique he's used in every medium we have an article on. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 22:35, June 21, 2014 (UTC)
The Game-Jutsus are missing in his Infobox :/ Like Mizu Bunshin no Jutsu--{{SUBST:ERS:Benutzer:PSPMAN/sig1}} 09:04, June 22, 2014 (UTC)
Games are not canon, and as such game jutsu aren't canon, and don't show up in the infobox. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 11:57, June 22, 2014 (UTC)
Anime-Jutsus arent canon too, but they show up...--{{SUBST:ERS:Benutzer:PSPMAN/sig1}} 14:37, June 22, 2014 (UTC)
Anime follows the manga much more closely, and has much more of a plot than the games in general. Game and movie jutsu only show up when the character itself only appears in that medium. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 14:54, June 22, 2014 (UTC)

The Finger Edit

I glossed the entire article and am unable to find a mention about that finger trick. Any info on a potentially related technique or the purpose of it? Artofcreation (talk) 09:22, June 22, 2014 (UTC)

There's no special meaning behind it. • Seelentau ? ? 10:26, June 22, 2014 (UTC)
Then why would Hashirama demand Tobirama to put down the finger?--Elveonora (talk) 15:30, June 22, 2014 (UTC)
Because it was a sign of action or so. Lke normal people clench their fists when they're getting angry. Buuut if you want to believe that Tobirama was about to use a special, dangerous, never before seen or mentioned Ubertechnique that begins with lifting the finger, do so. Hey, here's a sentence you can write in the article about that: When Tobirama was summoned by Orochimaru for the second time, he lifted a finger. Hashirama's demand to his brother to lower the finger indicates that Tobirama was about to use a highly dangerous technique.. :) • Seelentau ? ? 15:35, June 22, 2014 (UTC)
Tobirama is badass, so a finger technique wouldn't be outta his character. My bet is a one-hand version of Thousand Years of Death--Elveonora (talk) 16:32, June 22, 2014 (UTC)

Ah, thanks Seelentau. I was thinking that if there was no actual technique involved, it was Kishi's way of advertising Tobirama's power. i.e. "Hey look at all my chakra and power! And I'm barely lifting a finger lol"... Kinda like Tsunada and her finger flick. Artofcreation (talk) 04:10, June 25, 2014 (UTC)

So wait, we can assume that the "ninjutsu canceling" Yin-Yang Release effects of the Truth-Seeking Balls are the result of a "special, dangerous, never before seen or mentioned Ubertechnique" that magically came out of our asses, but we can't assume that Tobirama was about to do something when lifting his finger specifically released a shit ton of chakra? Alright. Being the rational individual I am, I'm going to have to call you on that one. All of you. ~ Ten Tailed Fox 20px 06:10, June 25, 2014 (UTC)
Explain? I'm not sure exactly what you're referring to with the Truth-seeking Balls. If it's about how articles concerning it are named/written, then that is simply its own issue. Artofcreation (talk) 02:11, June 27, 2014 (UTC)
I don't assume that, Fox. o.o And yes, Tobirama was about to do something when he lifted that finger: Showing his strength and intimidating the others. But no technique. • Seelentau ? ? 08:32, June 27, 2014 (UTC)

what the freaking hell?!?!?! Edit

Can anyone explain to me where this comes from?

  • "Due to his Senju lineage, Tobirama inherited an extraordinary life force, as well as powerful physical energy and stamina"
  • "Due to the large amounts of chakra granted by his lineage, Tobirama was able to teleport both Naruto and Minato while in their respective Tailed Beast Modes on the battlefield without any noticeable exhaustion. Additionally, was still able to produce shadow clones despite his use of an extremely chakra taxing technique. His reserves and stamina where further displayed when after having his chakra depleted by the Shinju he was still able to follow it up with a powerful Water Release technique"

Where do people get BS such as that from? First:

  1. why do people attribute Ashura and Indra traits to all and every single last of their descendants? Is it really necessary to paste "inherited strong x and y and large z and d" into characters' articles to over-hype them?
  2. why do people attribute things such as stamina and large amount of chakra and other nonsense to Senju and Uzumaki despite no such things have ever been stated?
  3. edo tensei have unlimited chakra I thought?--Elveonora (talk) 19:08, July 10, 2014 (UTC)
First of all, control your tongue. Second of all, if you find overhype within an article, do what everyone else does and remove it, so long as what you're removing isn't a legitimately sourced example of Tobirama's abilities. It really is that simple. ~ Ten Tailed Fox 20px 19:10, July 10, 2014 (UTC)
Third of all, 90% of abilities sections are over-hyped :P But done, although there still is some to be cut with all the "and also"--Elveonora (talk) 19:23, July 10, 2014 (UTC)
Well I made those edits and I put those I in place because I assumed it was inherit with Senju lineage my mistake. In my defense however it was already on Tsunade and Hashirama's ability sections for some time before I did it. Also it means it might as well be taken off Tsunade's chakra since it says basically the same thing. And with the Edo Tensi Omnibender explained it as such: Edo Tensei simply regenerates the users chakra rapidly seemingly giving them "unlimited" chakra. here is a link to what he said: Talk:Summoning: Impure World Reincarnation#Chakra: Unlimited or not. Anyhow his hypothesis seemed to be correct because we've seen limits of some reincarnated shinobi: Minato couldn't use FTG to save Naruto after he, Naruto and Tobirama had their chakra leeched. Second Mizukage lost a lot of chakra when he used his Steaming Danger Tyranny technique and he was noticeably winded. And probably the most obvious was with Four Red Yang Formation, Hashirama and Tobirama were limited in the amount of clones they can make but if they had this supposed "unlimited" chakra they wouldn't have been limited. --Youngjusticeplayer007 (talk) 19:31, July 10, 2014 (UTC)
Children don't inherit everything their parents have, especially not 1000x grandchildren. We don't even known what life force is and what does it mean to have strong physical energy, so adding that to every Senju and Uzumaki shrieks of fanboyism. It should be removed everywhere you see it, unless it was directly stated in manga. And I understand the Edo Tensei ordeal. Their chakra can't go to 0 and regenerates back to full, but the volume of their chakra is the same as they had in life. So if they didn't have enough chakra to perform x in life, they won't do as zombies.--Elveonora (talk) 19:49, July 10, 2014 (UTC)
Elveonora, although not directly stated, it is common sense. Why would all of Indra's descendants inherit his abilities (The Sharingan) but Asura's descendants don't inherit his? What kind of sense does that make? Indra inherited the sage's "eyes" and his powerful chakra and spiritual energy. While Asura inherited his father's "body" his powerful life-force and physical energy. If Indra's descendants got the "eyes" why wouldn't Asura's descendants get the "body". I mean, the Senju would need to have something special in order to be able to compete with the Uchiha and be able to defeat them anyway. --Legendary Super Saiya-Jin 4 (talk) 16:06, July 11, 2014 (UTC)
But all of them don't inherit the stuff to the same degree. We can't just assume x Senju's lifeforce and physical energy are super duper strong just because he/she is a Senju. Take Uruchi Uchiha for example, I doubt she had "powerful chakra and spiritual energy" and even if Tobirama did, that's not a reason to add it there, people can work that out themselves--Elveonora (talk) 16:20, July 11, 2014 (UTC)
Well yes, but I don't see why assuming that strong members of the clan who were shinobi having inherited Asura's abilities is complete speculation. Uruchi Uchiha was probably not even a ninja and she could have married into the clan for all we know. I also never said to the same degree, but I still believe it is worth mentioning to some extent. Especially considering the Uzumaki have it and they come from Asura just like the Senju do, and they were even less powerful and not as relevant as the Senju were at all in any point in history. --Legendary Super Saiya-Jin 4 (talk) 16:25, July 11, 2014 (UTC)

Shadow Clone Technique Edit

Can someone add the Shadow Clone Technique under Tobirama's jutsus. I find it silly that the man created the technique and we've seen him use it, and he doesn't have it listed under his arsenal. Unfortunately, my skills with technology are about the same level as an old man's... --Aclarke9913 (talk) 17:18, July 15, 2014 (UTC)

That woud be nice. FlyingRaijinGod (talk) 06:17, August 6, 2014 (UTC)

The Flying Thunder God Technique Edit

In the manga, it is not shown that Tobirama used a marked/tagged kunai to attack Izuna, where as in the anime it is. It is thought that Minato was the first to use marked/tagged Kunai for the technique, where in Naruto Shippuden episode 368 "The Era of Waring States" which takes long before Minato's time, Tobirama does so to injure Izuna. I believe this needs to be added, as this is an important bit of information. FlyingRaijinGod (talk) 09:25, August 4, 2014 (UTC)

Tobirama did use a marked kunai against Madara in the manga as well. Madara also implied that Tobirama was well known for tricks like that, so it's nothing new in the end. Norleon (talk) 09:33, August 4, 2014 (UTC)
Not to mention thrown Kunai is the only way the scene makes sense, otherwise there wouldn't have been any other way to teleport to Izuna, unless he marked Izuna himself.--Elveonora (talk) 13:10, August 4, 2014 (UTC)
Exactly! It was never shown or stated outright that he ever touched Izuna, it went out of it's way to specify the kunai as the seal source. I believe its important to credit Tobirama with because it /did/ happen. Fandom aside isn't it important to credit those who have earned that credit? you wouldn't leave out that Minato used Rasengan long before his son! FlyingRaijinGod (talk) 23:19, August 4, 2014 (UTC)

Seal Edit

The anime went out of its way to show the seal on the kunai, i find it imperative that this be added to the wiki as i have tried a few times to no avail. Why? because it is common belief that Minato was the first to use marked kunai, which is INCORRECT. is it not the goal of these wiki's to be as accurate as possible? please do not take my adamacy for hostility. i'm a huge fan of the character and believe in credit where credit is due. FlyingRaijinGod (talk) 11:43, August 4, 2014 (UTC)

@FlyingRaijinGod, common belief of who? Fandom? They have right to belive what they want, this does not correlate with page in any of ways. If you have link(on this wiki) where it is stated that Minato was the first to use marked kunai, then edit it. Otherwise this can hardly find its place even in trivia due low value. Rage gtx (talk) 12:22, August 4, 2014 (UTC)
It's mentioned in the page that Tobirama used marked kunais too, he created the technique so of course he used marked kunai first i don't see why it's so important IMO.(Kuroiraikou (talk) 12:25, August 4, 2014 (UTC))
i find it important because it is often said Minato improved upon it by using tagged kunai, which is really no improvement at all as Tobirama did it first. This is my opinion which could totally be wrongly placed. Flying Raijin God 12:33, August 4, 2014 (UTC)
Often said where i haven't seen it here, the technique allows the user to apply the seal anywhere applying it to a kunai first isn't noteworthy IMO.(Kuroiraikou (talk) 13:15, August 4, 2014 (UTC))
I would accept it even as trivia, if not considered significant enough for the main article by the majority. FlyingRaijinGod (talk) 23:21, August 4, 2014 (UTC)


Chakra Nature Edit

Hey what is with qll these random natures? The Second Hokage only ever used water release he never displayed any other natures beside water this is really wrong. Does it state this in the databook becuase some of these natures don't go with these characters at all because they never used it in the manga or in the anime. Unless he has a kekkei genkai or tota, or mora. But, he has none of these plus it never stated he could use all natures in manga. --Tuxedo12 (talk) 15:15, November 5, 2014 (UTC)

All the clusterfuck that you may observe happening as of late is the cause of the 4th Databook. Sue the author Masashi Kishimoto if you would like.--Elve [Moderator] Talk Page|Contribs 15:23, November 5, 2014 (UTC)

I know this may not matter much, but amidst all the randomness I think it'd be a pretty good idea to keep the chakra natures all these characters use the most at the top, so every page doesn't the same. In Tobirama's case, keep the Water Release icon at the top. What do you think?--Minamoto15 (talk) 16:35, November 5, 2014 (UTC)

I think we decided to list them in this order: Fire, Wind, Lightning, Earth, Water, Yin, Yang. If not, then it should be done. Or do you know which nature Sakura used more? No? Me neither. • Seelentau 愛 16:38, November 5, 2014 (UTC)
It was just a suggesstion, nothing more. Minus the snarkiness, I appreciate your information. Thank you.--Minamoto15 (talk) 16:46, November 5, 2014 (UTC)
Sorry, I'm in a bad mood today. ^^' • Seelentau 愛 16:50, November 5, 2014 (UTC)

Summoning Edit

Since the databook says Tobirama had a summon should he be listed or is it just going to stay as is since we dont know weather it was just Edo Tensei or an entirely different summon?--Youngjusticeplayer007 (talk) 06:37, December 8, 2014 (UTC)

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