Merge Tobi page with Obito
- Thank you for volunteering.--Cerez365™(talk) 12:22, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
- The Tobi page serves no purpose anymore in the story. Every bit of this article will need to be written into Obito's article. Just great. =.= --Speysider Talk Page | My Image Uploads | Tabber Code | My Wiki | Channel 12:39, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
- I agree with Yumeyo-yuki, no need to rush into this before we know more.--Cosmikaze (talk) 12:48, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
- Community, please leave your thoughts at Forum:Chapter 599- Obito and Tobi so we can get a "collective" view.--Cerez365™(talk) 12:52, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
This is exactly what I feared would happen when Tobi's identity was revealed. People would jump to speculation and the process of merging the pages would be significantly slowed down. Look guys, I was never an Obitard. But it's more or less confirmed by this chapter, and it would be irresponsible not to merge the pages. Did we wait two or more chapters to see if Edo Madara was just Madara's body, and that Tobi had his soul? No. We merged them, because that's what you do when something like this is revealed. Tobi is Obito, so let's just get this over with and merge them. --M4ND0N (talk) 13:50, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
Maybe the disambiguation isn't correct anymore.. it is revealed who he is so it should no longer be a disambiguation to Madara (or at least not to ONLY him). Khaliszt (talk) 12:20, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
- The chapter's been out all of five minutes...--Cerez365™(talk) 12:22, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
do we jump the gun this time, or...
We cut/paste everything Tobi/Obito/whatever retarded shit has said about "I, Madara" to Madara's article.
- founding of Akatsuki through Yahiko
- giving Nagato the Rinnegan (As these had happened before the Kakashi Chronicles)
- was Obito really responsible for the attack on Konoha, or was it Madara?
- control of Yagura
- plothole: Tobi wasn't aware of Minato's techniques, was he? Obito was the latter's student.
How can tobi be obito when; he is always old? by exemple tobi said that he gave nagato the rinnegan at a time prior to the third ninja war when obito was still a little child or was unborn? also the tobi kisame remembers before dying seems rather diferent.
i know this aint a talk page but for the post above, i am starting to think tobi is more than one preson in all of this apperances actually. Reading the manga and putting them all together...kinda makes sense. Just reread and when ever he appears before and during the attack he seems..not the tobi now, while during current appearances he seems a complete different person then before.
also i do not think its a plot hole, havent had any yet. i can fill in gaps whenever someone mentions a supposed plot hole and do not think this is one, kishimoto will fill us all in within a next few chapters. leave everything as if until its all explained(unsigned)
Yes, "Tobi" is either an alias used by more than 1 person, and at least in once instance, it was the real Madara because Nagato had the Rinnegan like 35 years ago, before Obito was even born.--Elveonora (talk) 13:09, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
Definitely there are a bunch of questions that we should make. All the time-related ones which give a lot of illogical sense to the plot, and the motivational-related which are like "why the fuck would he do that"? Khaliszt (talk) 13:19, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
There were clues early on
At one point 'Tobi' made Kabuto explain the Edo Tensi to him. Then, a few issues ago, we see that Madara knew all about the Edo Tensi and how to release himself from it. From that point onward it was clear that whoever Tobi was he was from a more recent generation.
Beyond the inevitable six-issue backstory arc we're about to see, it'd be interesting to know who in the hell taught Obito to be such an absurdly good fighter.
And does anyone else think the writers will take the opportunity to finally tell us how Kakashi activated his Mangekyo Sharingan? Seems like a good time for it.
If what we saw is true and Obito is Tobi, then how in the hell was he a full grown adult at the time of him using Kurama to attack Konoha whereas Kakashi and Gai were just teenagers. Something must have been done to him to make him a full grown adult. --Senjuto 13:08, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
Kakashi and Guy were 14 with an appearance of almost a full-grown men there as well... Kishimoto sucks when it comes to showing off age of his drawings. For example, 11 years old Itachi is as tall as mature Orochimaru--Elveonora (talk) 13:10, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
I don't think that was Tobi, that guy never said or inferred his name was Tobi at all. Just Naruto and modern world put masked man=new masked man Tobi. Simple and as for height, what wrong with Itachi? I have been 6'2 since 7th grade. Only grew an inch from then and now and I'm 18. so he could have been tall and muscular and didn't grow much afterwards.
Nothing's wrong with that, but Kakashi and Guy were about 14-15 years old at the time of the attack and that was a couple of years from the Battle of the Kannabi Bridge, so how would Obito go from the height he was then to being as tall if not taller than Minato when fighting him during the attack initiated by Tobi (Obito) using Kurama. --Senjuto 13:34, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
Growth spurt. You can grow a lot in a few years. Simply put. Realistically you could grow that much, now. It would be hell, the growth pains would hurt but you could.
Also this fight is the only thing keeping me from being sure my hypothesis is correct. I have called everything right about Tobi so far, except this fight. He never called himself Tobi so I thought he was the the older Tobi who i think was Madara, who met Nagato after the second war and maybe saved Obito after the bridge. But if it is Tobi my guess would be it has something to do with his body's alteration to be honest. Only one side of him looks old, the side that leaks the white substance, this makes me think that whatever that was (I think it's related to Zetsu to be honest, it fits. Just by straight facts it fits, that's why Zetsu was important).
So, like. I think we should get to merging the articles as soon as we can. The main thing to remember is whatever you think of the Obito theory doesn't matter. But I will say this, I think it's ridiculous how the community is still speculating on whether or not he's really Obito. I know it's hard to come to terms with, but the chapter's literally called "Obito Uchiha", and his face is revealed at the end. There's no room for further discussion. any speculation we had before is gone now, and we'll get an explanation down the line. I knew he was Obito for days, so it doesn't bother me.. but yeah. I think the sooner we get it over with, the better. --M4ND0N (talk) 13:53, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
- I agree, I seriously don't know why we're stalling because stalling is really harming us in a whole load of ways. --Speysider Talk Page | My Image Uploads | Tabber Code | My Wiki | Channel 13:58, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
Look at the Saiyan Island discussion. It's even worse. "He's the Juubi in Obito's body", "He's a Zetsu clone". Why would Kishimoto set it up like this if he isn't Obito? I don't care if people don't like it, he is who he is, and that's who he always was.. hence why Kishi covered the right side of his face during the Konan fight. It's done. He's Obito, so let's merge them. --M4ND0N (talk) 14:00, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
I believe he is Obito but I think they need to remain separate until Tobi's explained. Some of the things Tobi did, I do not think were Obito.
- You need to use a signature, dude. Anyway, we didn't speculate on whether or not Tobi was Madara or not after Edo Madara was summoned. did we? There could have been TONS of "theoretical" explanations for it, but we chose to merge the articles. And let me remind you guys, that Kishi specifically said Tobi's identity would be revealed in the next few weeks. It's been 4 weeks. So we have to treat this as a revelation, and stop being prissy little whiners about his identity and stall the merging for some last remnant of hope that SOMEHOW he's Kagami or some shit. That's just not going to happen. --M4ND0N (talk) 14:05, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
Yeah, I agree. The page should become unlocked, for the sake of allowing a large amount of people to edit the page after the merging. A lot of information needs to be moved. But since the admins have control over it, I hope they do the right thing and allow it to be merged.. this denial is making me sick. --M4ND0N (talk) 14:12, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
Actually you are right, even if not all the information is correct for Obito, this should be handled like Madara, and needs to be merged, and if later info suggests something else the info can be moved. Only a few things do not makes sense, so it's safe to assume Tobi was Obito for the most part. --J spencer93 (talk) 14:15, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
Theoretically this wiki is unbiased. We get based on the manga and on the official sources and official explanations and the original plot of the manga. Today we could see how our biggest official source, the manga, said that TOBI is OBITO. Why is there any doubt to change it? Yeah, I know and I totally agree with the fact it needs MUCH MORE information and explanations. BUT it was said. If in one chapter Kakashi said "I don't like ramen" It would be considered like that, and maybe 10 chapters later he is eating it and he says "I was joking in that moment" and we would have to rechange it but we followed what the official source had said.. Khaliszt (talk) 14:21, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
Exactly. There shouldn't be a double standard just because people don't like the theory. So if any admins are online, I actually suggest you guys handle the merging. Judging from the reactions the revelation is getting on forums, I find it likely that Tobi's page could be prone to spam, editing, something like [there are many plot holes surrounding the revelation] or attempts to edit the name back to Tobi. Vandalism is possible and likely at this point. --M4ND0N (talk) 14:24, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
Khaliszt, that is what I was saying. And so far there are no plot holes. I have read the entire manga so far several times, no plot holes at all. The Obito thing is explainable, and until the entire plot is finished, you can not call it a plot hole. —This unsigned comment was made by [[User:|]] ([[User talk:|talk]] • contribs) .
Yeah.. this is already done for today. Maybe in 2 or three weeks something changes and it gets better clarified. But right NOW that is what we've got and if this wiki considers itself unbiased we should say what today's manga said, and that is: Tobi is Obito. Like a said before with the example of kakashi and ramen XD Khaliszt (talk) 15:51, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
I'm a random user on her and I was upset to see that you haven't merged the Obito Uchiha article with the Tobi Article. Please do that soon, or if you're not going to merge it than AT LEAST MENTION OBITO IN TOBI'S ARTICLE AND TOBI IN OBITO'S ARTICLE. It just feels like you guys are all denying it, when the biggest source you have has said it. Changes can always be reverted if new information comes in but as for right now. I say merge it.
Uchiha Flame Battle Encampment
Why was Uchiha Flame Battle Encampment removed from his jutsu list? --unknown
Please sign your posts. Thank you :) --Senjuto 19:13, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
Since it's obvious the articles will be merged sooner or later, I'm just gonna say Obito in reference to this article. When that happens, should we change the picture to the unmasked Obito, or leave the current one as it is? --M4ND0N (talk) 15:56, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
I think the unmasked is perfect. If it results to be Obito controlled somehow by someone (just giving an example) he would still have that appearance. And if it's obito totally himself (he still looks like that) i think it is still perfect. So the unmasked view of the last chapter would work very well actually! Let's see if and admin merges it.. Doesn't look like they're on the mood to do it. I understand it, it's complex to do all the merge and maybe next week you have to undo it.. but at least show yourselves, looks like you're giving no importance to it XD I understand the problem. But it's also a matter of biasing, it was already confirmed UNTIL NOW Khaliszt (talk) 16:04, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
All I'm seeing is a bunch of defeated anti Obitards coming up with desperate excuses to disregard Tobi being Obito. Kishi said that it would be revealed in a few weeks, and it's been a month. Obito Uchiha is the chapter title. I don't understand why this is a debate when Madara was split within a day. But I agree, the picture would be great for the article. Obito's still one of the main villains until he dies or turns good again. --M4ND0N (talk) 16:13, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
Recommendation: Delay Edits
Reposting this from the Obito talk page. I know the majority above are already raring to merge the Tobi and Obito articles, but I must emphasize that considering the mountain of backstory necessary to bridge the time-skip between Obito's "death" and, at the earliest, Minato's confrontation with Tobi, merging everything right now can muck up the narrative of the page. I don't believe placing a few cursory paragraphs saying "Obito mysteriously surfaces back as Tobi" would suffice at this point.
I'd say we rather wait for the next chapter next week and see how the narrative bridges those intervening years. We don't even have any plausible information (yet) as to how a young Obito that died was transformed into an adult body identified to be Tobi and masquerading as Madara Uchiha. Delaying the merger is not about putting a foot on the throat of so-called "anti-Obitards" as mentioned above. If we are gunning for a seamless page, it would be most plausible and helpful for the editors to get all the fact straight. This is a wiki, after all, not a forum/gossip page where we're always gunning for "first scoop." Magatama90 (talk) 16:37, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
- this was already said before in this same discussion but according to TOBI specifically and it is a repost from a discussion on the chapter forums, what is the need of putting it here? Khaliszt (talk) 16:41, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
Exactly. This is a wiki. And as a wiki, we need to keep up to date with the latest content. I say we merge them, or else we risk becoming biased and unprofessional. We've never withheld content before, due to a few gaps and unexplained facts. Why start now? --M4ND0N (talk) 16:48, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
Or, a simple message on their articles reading "WE ARE AWARE THAT TOBI MIGHT BE OBITO" kind of thing will do. akz! 16:50, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
- 1. I did not come from the chapter forums. 2. I'm trying to suggest a more sensible approach to the handling of the edits: we are not denying Tobi is Obito, what I'm saying is that it's better to deal with the edits with complete information. See how images are not replaced with "latest" scans/anime captions unless it is of better quality, or how edits are not made in character profiles unless the information is complete (cf. the edit history of the Kabuto page during the backstory reveals). 3. Is your concept of professional simply being "up-to-date with incomplete information?" That is anything but. Magatama90 (talk) 16:54, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
I'm not talking about the image, I'm talking about the information we have. It's completely professional, because that's what we've always done. Why change now because a few people want to cross their fingers and hope he isn't Obito? Many other sites that documents the series have already listed Tobi as Obito. Wikipedia being the most prominent. --M4ND0N (talk) 16:57, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
- Again, not merging the articles right now does not mean we are sowing doubt into the reality that Tobi is Obito. What I say is that the edits should be done when information is complete (as I said, see the history of the Kabuto article). Why are you assuming for other people? Also: invoking Wikipedia is you committing a logical fallacy. The story line of Obito becoming Tobi needs to be explained better, and waiting for the next chapter is most sound. Evidence is incontrovertible with regards to the Madara/Tobi split... and the characters are pretty much different, which is why the split was easy to make. But Obito and Tobi? That key development needs better data, which the next chapter should provide. Let's not be hotheads here please. Magatama90 (talk) 17:07, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
How am I being a hothead? I'm not even concerned about people not thinking he's Obito, and disregarding it. I'm concerned about a wikia known for being up to date with content, completely ignoring an entire chapter for a whole week. That's just not a professional thing to do. Just remember how we handled Madara's article on the day the chapter came out. We split them. I understand there was more information to fill the gaps, since Tobi already had a sizable amount of info to stand as it's own article seperate from Madara. But we still can't let ourselves ignore content when it's there. --M4ND0N (talk) 17:12, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
I agree with Magatama90 that we should not rush merging the Tobi and Obito pages into one until the backstory of how Obito became Tobi is revealed. Just because it is revealed that Tobi was revealed to be Obito, it does not mean we should just merge it immediately. There is no backstory revealed that tells us how the heck Obito became Tobi, particularly as Magatama90 shares my opinion on how Obito's body became that of a full-sized adult male. We need to be patient and see what chapter 600 and the ones that follow to see the backstory. M4ND0N, it may be completely professional as you say, but we must move with caution and be armed with the information necessary to facilitate a merger of the Tobi and Obito Uchiha pages. --Senjuto (talk) 18:26, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
- How about, instead of delaying edits, delay the merge. We can still update that Tobi's mask fell off and he was revealed to be Obito, and we can edit Obito's page to include the information we received about his ninja career prior to his 'death'. Then, when it's 100% still Obito in there, the merge can be done. I understand the hesitation after the false Madara confirmation. Kein87 (talk) 19:22, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
This is Stupid
I am a long time editor of Wikipedia, and obviously this is not Wikipedia but you could at least apply some similar standards. Even if you don't want to merge the Tobi/Obito articles, at the very least mention what happened in each article. There is a complete blackout of chapter 599 on both articles, at the very least you could put that his mask was broken and it appeared he was Obito. You have an obligation as a popular website, to keep information up to date! -188.8.131.52 (talk) 17:47, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
- The process is lengthy to merge the articles. But I agree, the opposition this revelation is getting is absolutely sickening. Especially with all the pre-established standards this wiki usually has. I think the admins will work on it soon. --M4ND0N (talk) 17:53, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
- The only thing I don't understand is how we can't even acknowledge the fact that Tobi is "inside" Obito's body ,even if it's not actually him ,thats a big deal for this series. Couldn't we just simply update Tobi's page for whats taken place and leave Obito's alone for now until it's confirmed that he is alive? --Hordy4040 (talk) 20:32, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
I think people who don't want a merging of these two pages just yet are correct.
Because we don't know if Obito is alive. However what we do know ,something that is not up for debate ,is that "Tobi" is indeed inside Obito's corpse and THAT is what should be updated on Tobi's page,no matter how you slice it that happened in the manga just now,so in short Obito may not be the Tobi we know, but we have confirmation that Tobi is in Obito's body.--Hordy4040 (talk) 20:48, August 29, 2012 (UTC)
It´s rather hilarious that the Admins of these pages made a conclusion out of nothing and merged the Tobi & Obito pages together.
What if in chapter 600 that it reveals that Obito's body is controlled by Madara's soul/mind?
Merging Uchiha Madara's page with Tobi's & Obito's into one then?
- Remain calm. Manga chapter 599 has clearly thought us that CURRENTLY, and I can't stress that word enough, Tobi = Obito.
Untill the next manga is released, we shall take that information as definite. End of story.
Standards of Narutopedia:
I'm rather disappointed with the way this issue is being handled by the wiki staff. This is a popular means of acquiring up to date information about the Naruto storyline, and here we see that the wiki isn't keeping updated?
I was under the impression that this wiki was unbiased and that information would be updated as it was revealed.
Tobi was revealed to be Obito in Chapter 599. We knew nothing more and nothing less.
The moment this was revealed, it should have been reflected in the wiki. Had the next chapter explained something else, or a different conclusion, then the wiki would be changed to reflect that, the most recent information.
You're not the one who has to update every related link and article. By waiting a bit, we can be sure that what the chapter showed is actually that, not some clever twist that'll be resolved in the opening panels of the next chapter. Merging the articles when there's a chance of requiring them to be split again is pointless. There's also the issue making sure there's no back and forth between people who are for and against the waiting, which only create unnecessary revisions of the article, not to mention pollute the recent changes page. Your lack of perspective is cringe-worthy. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 01:59, September 6, 2012 (UTC)
I think we can clearly take it as that...
The long-haired Masked Man was indeed Madara. Mainly due to the timeline and now that we know he lived long after Hashi battle. I think we can let the "haircut and time-travel theories" die already. That would explain the strong genjutsu over Yagura, Kisame's reaction, fooled Itachi and all. One doesn't simply have long hair, cut it short, let it grow and then haircut again. Explains (partially) the Yahiko and Nagato comments as well, so Madara created the Akatsuki.
i do agree with you , i think even though it was show that Tobi/Obito is a powerful shinobi , i don't think he has the shoulder to carry out everything that has happen .. since we are talking about a guy ready to annihilate the entire world just because he lost his "childhood crush".--Tchad1 (talk) 12:55, September 7, 2012 (UTC)