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Revision as of 12:03, June 23, 2013 by Dan.Faulkner (Talk | contribs)

stronger

sasori murder the third kazekage that mean sasori stronger than the third kazekage —This unsigned comment was made by Narusuke55 (talkcontribs) on 23:02, 16 June 2009 (UTC).

No, no it doesn't. It only means Sasori killed the Kazekage. Unless we know exactly what happened during their fight, we cannot say in any way who of the two was stronger. --ShounenSuki (talk | contribs) 23:11, 16 June 2009 (UTC)

Iron Sand

I'm not sure if this was in the manga, but I was just watching the anime episode named after him and in one scene he has winfs made of iron sand and is using them to float.—This unsigned comment was made by 66.65.102.108 (talkcontribs) .

Seperate articles

should we perhaps seperate the articles, so that we have one for the character an one for the puppet, similar to how we have seperated the articles of Sasori and his puppet body. --Gojita (talk) 11:19, January 28, 2011 (UTC)Gojita

I don't think there's enough information on the Sandaime Kazekage for it to warrant a separate page. Majority of the information we have on him is as Sasori's puppet. Scorpion got it's own article because it was used by someone else etc.--Cerez365 (talk) 12:11, January 28, 2011 (UTC)

The Third Shinobi War

I don't think that it lead to the Third Shinobi World War. A war, but not the The Third Shinobi World War. Chiyo states that the Kazekage disappeared ten years prior to Shippuden, which means Sasori would have been roughly twentyfive. And the Third Shinobi World War ended when he was about eighteen (since Kakashi was 13ish when his team destroyed the Kannabi bridge)...Or did Kishimoto just mess up? —This unsigned comment was made by 124.169.169.234 (talkcontribs) .

That's why the article says "...suggested to have sparked...." War is a culmination of small or large events. This just helped.--Cerez365™☺ 14:43, April 17, 2011 (UTC)

...But the Kazekage wouldn't have been kidnapped and killed until seven years after the Third Shinobi World War... —This unsigned comment was made by 124.169.169.234 (talkcontribs) .

The Kazekage disappeared about 20 years prior to part II, not ten. You're probably getting this from a mistranslated English source. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 16:27, April 17, 2011 (UTC)
Actually, Sasori left Suna "more than twenty years" (二十年以上, nijū nen ijō) prior to Part II, according to Kankurō. The Third Kazekage disappearance had "already been more than ten years ago" (もう十年以上も前, mō jū nen ijō mo mae) according to Chiyo. —ShounenSuki (talk | contribs | translations) 17:31, April 17, 2011 (UTC)
So they could have happened at the same time. Even so, the way those are worded, it seems to me that there's the implication that Sasori killed the Third years after he left Suna. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 17:54, April 17, 2011 (UTC)
(Chiyo says Ten years in both the anime and manga ((number 30))) So Sasori left the village when he was about 15, the Third Shinobi World War finished when he was about 18, And he kidnapped/killed the Kazekage when he was about 25. 203.59.18.164 (talk) 07:24, April 18, 2011 (UTC)Woolfy
The Fourth Kazekage was already in office when Sasori was 25. ~SnapperTo 16:22, April 18, 2011 (UTC)
Well. If Sasori participated in the IIID SWW, he must have left afterwards, right? But if he left the village 16 years prior to series start (20 years prior to part II), then how could he fight in the third war, who started 13 years priot to series start? Seelentau 愛 08:02, July 4, 2011 (UTC)
SWWIII ended thirteen years before the start of the series. We don't exactly know when it began. —ShounenSuki (talk | contribs | translations) 11:12, July 4, 2011 (UTC)
kay. Anyways, is there a source for this: Sunagakure also participated in the war, as it was during this war that Sasori earned fame as Sasori of the Red Sand (赤砂のサソリ, Akasuna no Sasori), due to his ingenious puppets dying the sand red with his enemies' blood. (from here)? Because that could clear up if Sasori himself was using the puppets or someone else. If the latter is right, then Sasori maybe never fought in the war and it would become more logical that he has already left the village when the war started... uh, do you understand what I mean with that? I think I f***ed those lines up... .__. Seelentau 愛 14:27, July 4, 2011 (UTC)
Don't worry, I understand you perfectly. The source for that piece of info is the third databook:
Sasori of the Red Sands: The nickname of Sasori, a rare puppet master. It comes from the time of the Shinobi World War, when the puppets he created died the lands of sand red with blood. (赤砂のサソリ●稀代の傀儡師、サソリの異名。"忍界大戦"時、彼の作る傀儡達が、砂の大地を血で赤く染めたことに由来する。)
It is actually rather ambiguous about whether or not he himself used the puppets. It definitely means that, at the least, other people were using his puppets. —ShounenSuki (talk | contribs | translations) 17:47, July 4, 2011 (UTC)

He was ~1 year old at the time the 2 NWW was held. Then, he left Sunagakure at the age of ~15 and killed the Sandaime Kazekage at the age of ~25. Thus, the only WW he could participate in was the third, when Sasori was 18 years old. But at that time he had already left Sunagakure. That would mean he fought against his own village, huh? I mean, why would Sasori get the nickname, when other people are using his puppets...? Seelentau 愛 18:04, July 4, 2011 (UTC)

For puppeteers, their creations tend to be their legacies. Given that timeline, it's probably more logical that it was in fact his puppets that were used just as we've seen throughout the whole series with the Ten Puppet Collection of Chikamatsu and the puppets Kankurō uses.--Cerez365 Hyūga Symbol 18:40, July 4, 2011 (UTC)
Again I would like to point out that we only know when SWWIII ended, not when it began. Wars tend to last longer than a year. —ShounenSuki (talk | contribs | translations) 18:53, July 4, 2011 (UTC)

Agreed. So Sasori most likely did fight during the third Shinobi World War, though he left the village at the age of 15, so the war ending when he was 18, roughly between 2-7 years before the Kazekage was kidnapped/killed. So it is extremely unlikely that the disappearence led to the Third Shinobi World War. It probably did lead to a war, but none on such an impressive scale as the World Wars, I'm guessing possibly a war between Sunagakure and Iwagakure as they have a history of fighting, though this is just speculation. —This unsigned comment was made by 58.7.200.154 (talkcontribs) .

Magnet Release?

wait, aren't we just speculating he has magnet release? I know the truth's all there, but isn't speculating the number one thing not to do on this?--76.92.243.71 (talk) 23:33, January 18, 2012 (UTC)

What to you think is less speculative: that the Third Kazekage had Magnet Release, even though it wasn't called such at the time, or that there are two different kekkei genkai which allow one to manipulate magnetic forces? Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 00:49, January 19, 2012 (UTC)

"assumptions shouldn't be the way"

Now, how about we remove him as magnet style user and instead of that we add a trivia about the likelihood for his possession of this ability? Because using an excuse that it's improbable for there to be magnetic chakra without this kekkei genkai is an assumption and we may be wrong. After all, we don't list that filler Part I. fat dude as a user, do we? Unless something is sated word by word, we may be wrong and connecting dots "shouldn't be the way"--Elveonora (talk) 15:06, June 22, 2013 (UTC)

What Part I filler guy?
Why does "assumptions shouldn't be that way" sound more like a bitter statement than anything?
Can someone who is not Elveonora explain to me when and why the Third Kazekage was given Magnet Release in the first place?--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol (talk) 15:09, June 22, 2013 (UTC)
Part I filler guy. Jacce | Talk | Contributions 15:11, June 22, 2013 (UTC)
"guise, changes voice" Because a databook said he uses "magnetic chakra"--Elveonora (talk) 15:25, June 22, 2013 (UTC)
I'm serious, there must have been a slew of discussion somewhere which had a semi-endless debate about if the Third and Fourth were using Magnet Release. Past us weren't the kind of people to just go "Oh, so that was Magnet Release! /add".--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol (talk) 15:38, June 22, 2013 (UTC)
Re-reading some chapters, the 4th indeed was noted to be a Jiton user. The 3rd wasn't, not directly I'm certain. It's just "logical" that manipulation of metal with magnetic chakra should be Magnet Release. But there's still a possibility of us being mistaken. So if something suggested, but not directly stated can pass like this, so should other cases.--Elveonora (talk) 15:42, June 22, 2013 (UTC)
In earnest that this is taking such big proportions? Dan.Faulkner (talk) 15:51, June 22, 2013 (UTC)

Once again I have no idea if Elveonora is with me or not... You're a very confusing person. Still, to my understanding Jiga (The filler guy) ate iron from an early age to magnetize his body. It is out and out explained how he achieves the effect he does. So in this manner he's more a pseudo-jinton user much like several other filler people copied other people's techniques if somewhat crappily. His chakra is never described as a unique element. If anything there's a better case for his brother being an Ice Release user cause we can't explain F-all about how he does it, just what he does with it. But the Third is described as having "Magnetic Chakra" and given his attacks seem to be very similar to the Fourth's, I think it's safe to say he is a Jinton user. Now then, what about Gaara? :D --Hawkeye2701 (talk) 15:57, June 22, 2013 (UTC)

I'm with myself. I'm neutral on the matter if we go left or right. But if we decide on stated facts alone, then lots of stuff has to be deleted. If we decide on common sense and logical conclusions, then I will do my best that things I argue for pass under--Elveonora (talk) 16:01, June 22, 2013 (UTC)

Jiga has nothing to do with this guy being listed as having Magnet Release. Third Kazekage was listed as having Magnet Release because what he did with Iron Sand was no different than what the Fourth Kazekage did with Gold Dust, which was explicitly said to be Magnet Release. I find it much less speculative to list the Third Kazekage as having Magnet Release than for him to have a different, unspecified way to achieve the same result. Even before Magnet Release was introduced as a term when Musai and Nonota fought Toroi, third databook already listed Iron Sand techniques as kekkei genkai. You mean to suggest that there is another kekkei genkai which involves the manipulation of magnetic fields, one that isn't Magnet Release? What sounds more reasonable to you? Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 17:03, June 22, 2013 (UTC)

Agreed. Seelentau 愛 17:14, June 22, 2013 (UTC)
Oh, I don't disagree either, he obviously was a magnet user, but that's a logical conclusion not a fact, evidence is a documented direct statement by the author. That's what the anon's comment said when reverting my edit. Why dismiss me all the time, but when it comes to something else, others' word is a priority? Yes, this is my own avenger agenda, because I'm always wrong no matter what. It's unfair. The odds that there are 2 different kekkei genkai with magnetic chakra are slim, but chance is still there, it still may be wrong no matter how likely or unlikely something appears to you. Yet it's a fact because someone besides me said so.--Elveonora (talk) 20:10, June 22, 2013 (UTC)
The whole wiki shouldn't be about how the odds of something are. We're not here to tell the fans how likely or unlikely something is. It doesn't matter at all. Logic should be the top priority here, if we cast it aside, hell would break lose. There's nothing wrong with going by logic if the author didn't say anything clear about a specific issue. Logical conclusions are as good as an evidence directly from the author. If he decides to change anything at a later point, it's not our fault. Seelentau 愛 09:23, June 23, 2013 (UTC)
When the majority agrees with the "logical conclusion" in question, we must follow what the majority concludes, whatever if the conclusion is pointing something in the trivia section because there are a lot of double standards, or add on the intire logical conclusion that started the discussion. This wiki is not made of a single contributor opinion. Dan.Faulkner (talk) 12:02, June 23, 2013 (UTC)

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