"That Technique" Jiraiya told Naruto not to use it are the Sealing Techniques he taught him during the timeskip. That Technique that Jiraiya and Gerotora were talking about is Naruto's New Seal/Torii Seal. Sasuke's "That Technique" is not Kirin since there were no clouds in the sky, he has not used his Cursed Seal and he has not used any Fire Techniques before.--Elveonora (talk) 20:00, October 9, 2011 (UTC)
- Those are your assumptions.--Cerez365™ 19:23, October 9, 2011 (UTC)
Just like "you" say that Sasuke's "that technique" is Kirin. Even if my assumptions, they make sense.
Ever wondered from where did Naruto learn Sealing Techniques ? ... Since Naruto is an Uzumaki and they have talent for that, it make sense for Jiraiya to teach him something. Jiraiya's training was meant to develop Naruto's potential to be able to protect himself from Akatsuki and rival Sasuke. It would make no sense for Jiraiya not to teach Naruto what suits him well and what his "clan" is best in.
Why Jiraiya told Naruto not to use "that" Jutsu ? -Uzumaki clan were massacred for their powers. -Naruto would do something stupid like open/undo/modify his seal without preparation. And its obvious that Gerotora and Jiraiya were talking about Naruto's New Seal--Elveonora (talk) 20:00, October 9, 2011 (UTC)
- Regardless they're still assumptions because it could be something else. As far as we know Jiraiya could have taught Naruto some ultimate ninutsu and not a fūinjutsu. I don't see why he would've told him not to use that technique when he did otherwise.
- Naruto's never used a sealing technique unless you count opening and closing the seal that was already on his stomach- the rest pretty much did itself. There are things about the seal Minato used that are still unknown, that's been said already.
- It was never said that all Uzumaki had a talent for fūinjutsu just that their clan was known for it.
- I don't understand how teaching him fūinjutsu would help him fight Sasuke or Akatsuki.
- What suits Naruto well as far as I've seen is his use of Shadow clones and close-combat meelee fighting. Technical stuff like sealing techniques seem out of his realm of expertise.--Cerez365™ 20:31, October 9, 2011 (UTC)
- Because Naruto was not able to filter Nine-Tail's hatred back then.
- He used it to open, to close and is able to control it ... enough proof. Also its stated in his article ... right hand dunno what left is doing.
- Read the article, Kushina came to Konoha as a young girl and still she knew many sealing techniques of their clan ... she even taught Minato later some.
- Imagine someone like Orochimaru messing with his seal again ... with the knowledge of sealing techniques he can correct that.
- Kushina and Naruto's style of Ninjutsu are the same.--Elveonora (talk) 21:02, October 9, 2011 (UTC)
- He wasn't able to filter the beast's hatred because he had no control of it. The seal has nothing to do with it. Else Killer B would be obsolete.
- Enough proof of what that he can open and close a seal that was left for him to use?
- ...Kushina then taught then to Naruto in his subconscious? Including Mito two people having skills with sealing techniques that come from an actual village where they were taught said techniques doesn't mean Naruto who's never had any training in their use as far as we know can use them.
- Orochimaru wasn't a part of Akatsuki at that time. But given that, I doubt he'd be able to do that in battle.
- That's what I said. Fūinjutsu ≠ Ninjutsu though...--Cerez365™ 21:17, October 9, 2011 (UTC)
- Wrong, to control the beast its required to be able to filter its hatred ... unless they have Sharingan or Hashirama's power.
- Sure ... you sounds like even Kiba would be able to do the same ...
- I said Jiraiya taught him ... you contradict yourself ... you are saying that someone without a training is unable to perform sealing techniques ... you see, Naruto is so its obvious someone taught him ... I dont think it was Kakashi then Jiraiya is left. He was good with Sealing Techniques if Im not wrong.
- Orochimaru was just an example ...
- Actually Fuuinjutsu is still Ninjutsu just different category.
- Something else ? ...
- No. Naruto doesn't control the beast. He's separated it from its chakra. To control the beast is to do what Killer B does.
- From what I've seen, if he was branded with the seal and that's in fact is what it does, why wouldn't Kiba be able to do the same?
- I don't think I'm contradicting myself. You're assuming Jiraiya taught him fūinjutsu when it's just as likely that he didn't and "that technique" is another technique altogether...
- Still doesn't mean they're the same.--Cerez365™ 23:22, October 9, 2011 (UTC)
- What Killer B does is called full control over Tailed-Beast. Separating the hatred from Beast's chakra = still control over the beast.
- If he was branded with it or not, he knew what to do and is able to control it. So Naruto is able to perform sealing techniques ... you saying that its enough to have seal and they know the rest what to do with it ... Its even stated in Naruto's article. If you disagree with that part, remove it.
- Read my statements again about that ... I dont think Naruto has 3 "That techniques"
- Sealing Techniques are still Ninjutsu, just sub-category. Are you saying that performing Shuriken technique = Taijutsu but killing someone with a sword is something else ? Kenjutsu are still sub-category of taijutsu.--Elveonora (talk) 23:29, October 9, 2011 (UTC)
Speed-read though things, some comments: the only thing suggesting Sasuke was going to use Kirin is the hand gesture, which is somewhat distinctive. I believe that's enough to link to Kirin. Nothing Naruto or Jiraiya ever said or did indicates that Naruto was ever taught fūinjutsu by him. Jiraiya has some skill in fūinjutsu, but nothing ever indicated that that's what he taught Naruto. Regarding classification, in the first databook, fūinjutsu and ninjutsu were different categories, from the second databook onwards, all fūinjutsu are also listed as ninjutsu. Naruto has control over the Nine-Tails' chakra, not over the Nine-Tails itself. That would require cooperation, like B and the Eight-Tails do. Taijutsu are techniques which use only one's body. Everything using tools is ninjutsu. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:39, October 9, 2011 (UTC)
- (Edit Conflict) It's control over the beast's chakra not the beast
- Naruto was given the key to the seal. That could have been where he got instructions from on what to do.
- Shurikenjutsu and Kenjutsu are Nijutsu not Taijutsu.--Cerez365™ 23:40, October 9, 2011 (UTC)
- There were no clouds, he has not used any fire technique as a preparation and it would kill him as well. I dont think gesture is enough.
- Then I will hear out your explanation of what Naruto did. If its not Fuuinjutsu ... what about that part in Naruto's article ... remove it or not ?
- Naruto's control over Nine-Tail's chakra is still Tailed Beast control. Killer B is a perfect host since he has complete control due to him being friend with Eight-Tails thus its Full control over Tailed Beast.
- So throwing Kunai or Shuriken is Ninjutsu ? Isnt it only while they use chakra flow through it ? What if someone that is not a Ninja will throw Shuriken or Kunai ? Then Samurai must use Ninjutsu as well ... I will note that.
- Still Tailed Beast control
- He was given instructions what to do with his seal ... so he has some skill in sealing techniques : )
- Read above
- I know that Jiraiya teaching Naruto sealing techniques was never said nor shown.
But give me your explanation on what is "that technique" and what exactly Naruto is able to do with his seal if its not Fuuinjutsu. I gave my explanation, give me your proof. --Elveonora (talk) 23:56, October 9, 2011 (UTC)
Maybe he was going to prepare the Chidori first and then launch a Fire Release technique? I don't know, the only thing which indicates what technique he was going to use is the hand gesture. I don't mind the link for Kirin being there or not, as long as there's no edit war adding and removing it every week. I'm not saying that what Naruto did with his seal isn't fūinjutsu, for me it very clearly is, what I'm saying is that there's no evidence that it was Jiraiya who taught him to use it. We know he taught a "that technique", we just don't know what it is so far. I agree, Naruto controls the Nine-Tails' chakra, but not the Nine-Tails itself. Saying he has control over the beast is saying he has as much control as B does. About kunai and shuriken, yes. If you use any tool or weapon at all, it stops being taijutsu. I made an improper statement. If it uses tools, it's not taijutsu, but that doesn't mean that using tools is ninjutsu, otherwise, as you said, samurai would use ninjutsu. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 00:11, October 10, 2011 (UTC)
- If you mean the article: it's about everything that's been called "that technique". If it's about this discussion: Elveonora is telling us what he/she assumes "that technique" is in some instances.--Cerez365™ 00:24, October 10, 2011 (UTC)
- That make sense, but they were already numb from his Chidori Nagashi, no need for another lesser lighting technique. As I said, it was not high enough for him to use Kirin ... he would kill himself, Kabuto and Orochimaru and I dont even think he wanted to kill him ... he was just like "lets see what you got after 3 years Naruto" If he wanted them dead, why he has not killed Yamato right away ?
- So tell me from where Naruto got the knowledge of Sealing Techniques ? Jiraiya being able to use them, "That Jutsu" and Naruto having talent for them due to being an Uzumaki point in that direction.
Theres no reason for Naruto not to use it since:
- If its a ninjutsu harming his body (Like Wind Shuriken), no ... he overcame that with Sage Mode and Chakra Cloak.
- I dont see why Jiraiya would tell Naruto not to use Taijutsu
- Naruto has no skill in Genjutsu except skill in dispelling.
- No reason for Naruto not to use Barriers.
- Dont think Naruto is able to absorb chakra.
- I dont think he can use Tensei Ninjutsu
- Not Space Time jutsu
The only thing that makes sense is Fuuinjutsu.
- Thats why I said, Naruto able to filter the hatred and control the chakra is Tailed Beast control. Being able to do those 2 + being friend with the beast is Complete control over Tailed-Beast unless Sharingan or Hashirama are to be taken into consideration
There are only 3 main categories of Jutsu
All other type of jutsu are just sub-categories of these so I dont see how using tools = Ninjutsu ... is it stated in databook ? If so, scans/translation please. That makes no sense ... so people that are not Shinobi and Samurai using tools is not Ninjutsu/Taijutsu/Genjutsu ... using weapon is closer to melee combat (Taijutsu). Until chakra flow is used(Ninjutsu), how is it ninjutsu again ?--Elveonora (talk) 00:39, October 10, 2011 (UTC)
- Naruto was able to separate the beast's chakra from its hatred. He isn't filtering anything at this point it's still there festering within the beast. The use of tools is a Ninja Technique- Ninjutsu. Taijutsu is literally the use of one's body as a weapon. Obviously a Samurai using a sword for example isn't using a Ninja Technique, they're using [Ken]jutsu.--Cerez365™ 00:47, October 10, 2011 (UTC)
- ...? That's a tad ironic.--Cerez365™ 00:55, October 10, 2011 (UTC)
Taijutsu are techniques using just your body. By using any tool, you're automatically not using taijutsu. Taijutsu literally means "body techniques". I think this was also explained in the first databook. If you find any discussion about this wherever it is, if ShounenSuki was part of it, you'll see him explaining that. About what Jiraiya said, let me try putting it this way. You say it's fūinjutsu. I'm not saying it's not fūinjutsu, I'm saying that it could be, but nothing suggests it is, it could just as well not be fūinjutsu. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 01:44, October 10, 2011 (UTC)
Did you read this whole talkpage properly ? All I ask for is that "Kirin" part removed along with Gerotora x Jiraiya "that jutsu" because its obviously his new seal. And a statement "It is possible that Jiraiya taugh Naruto some sealing techniques since he was seen using them and no other explanation was given" Also please finally post something to my talkpage : ) What if "that jutsu" will never be explained ? Will you agree then its sealing techniques and new seal ?
- EDIT: Also I dont want to speculate that much and doubt whats said in 1st Databook ... but isnt it old ? Also Kunai/Shuriken are just a tools ... The hand (body) is weapon.
Knowing what a "that technique" is isn't a reason to remove it from the page. The very purpose of this page was to show which techniques have been described as such. I'll and do agree it's possible it's the seal, but in no way I'll agree to list in the article, considering how little are the circumstances which suggest it is. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 02:04, October 10, 2011 (UTC)
I see. Well, you are an administrator. I will have to take my tail and let it be until more stuff proving my suggestions come up with manga. Thats why im discussing this in the first place ... Im not the type that edit things at a whim. I thought that things I have stated in this talkpage are enough proof : ( But still, all these are just my assumptions but isnt Sasuke's "that jutsu = Kirin" one as well ? I dont see how is it possible ... at least a change stating that "Its possible that the technique might be Kirin" instead of stating it as a fact and linking it to that. And btw, Im a boy ... and to user asking about coffins, check my talkpage : D--Elveonora (talk) 02:10, October 10, 2011 (UTC)
- I think the link to Kirin neither adds nor detracts from the page, so I removed that already. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 02:18, October 10, 2011 (UTC)
The only possible techniques using The Tiger Seal and Sasuke could learned from Kakashi or Orochimaru or his own are:
- Fire Release: Great Dragon Fire Technique (But that does not explain his hand gesture)
- Snake Authority Spell (We have seen using him Tiger Seal against Deidara with this technique)
- Kirin does not use hand seals and also he had not cast out the fire technique at first, also there were no clouds and he was not high enough and was too close to them.
After watching Shippuden 221 I think it's even more clear that "that jutsu" Jiraiya told Naruto to not use it and talked with Frog about is Naruto's new seal he used to seal Kyubi after he used Minato's key.
- Jiraiya: "However, the fact that Minato left me the jutsu for the key convinces me that he intended for Naruto to perfect that jutsu one day"
Then frogs talked about how Jiraiya wanted Naruto to test if he can filter the Kyubi's hatred thus if he can control its chakra. Minato gave they key to Jiraiya and he used it to open the seal a bit for the purpose of Naruto learning to control the Kyubi. It was always meant for Naruto to use the frog key to remove his seal and master Kyubi. Frog gave him the key with:
- "With this, you will have the means to perfect that jutsu that Jiraiya was talking about"
Jiraiya to Naruto about Minato:
- "Unlike you, my foolish apprentice he was a true prodigy"
- "And the jutsu he developed was extraordinary"
- "Even I couldn't grasp the ninjutsu he developed and not even the successive Hokage"
- "But there is just one shinobi with the potential to master such an extraordinary jutsu"
- "That is you, Naruto!"
- "You possess the Nine Tail's chakra and only you can master that jutsu"
- "The Fourth Hokage left it solely for your sake, it is his legacy for you"
- "Naruto! Will you undergo training to gain mastery over your chakra control?"
It's pretty clear "that jutsu" is Naruto's Torii Seal. It was meant for Naruto to use the key to remove his seal and control the kyubi. Makes sense he would need a replacement. Jiraiya talked about Naruto's own chakra control making it pretty clear he taught him sealing techniques and "that jutsu" he told him not to use is Torii Seal. Only he can use it because he has the Kyubi's chakra. And when he does use it, the result being his new form of chakra cloak. --Elveonora (talk) 16:35, November 19, 2011 (UTC)
It could still be something else. I don't see how that would have helped him in any situation that he was in except to set the beast free. He also didn't have Gerotora with him so it probably wouldn't work.--Cerez365™ 12:28, November 21, 2011 (UTC)
Minato intended for him to learn "that jutsu" so he can fight Tobi.
- Jiraiya: "I believe that he meant for Naruto to complete that jutsu"
- Frog: "Do you really think Naruto needs a jutsu like that?!"
- Jiraiya: "Minato only sealed the Kyubi's dark chakra with the Shiki Fuujin, Minato made sure to separate the Kyubi's chakra into Yin and Yang. The sole reason for sealing the yang half into Naruto was so that Naruto could possess the Kyubi's chakra. But why did he go to the trouble of sealing the Kyubi's chakra into his own child?"
- Frog: "Who knows? Maybe that's just the way the seal works"
- Jiraiya: "I was Minato's teacher. I knew him ... He wasn't the type of guy to do things without a reason. Minato might have known something important, and entrusted the kyubi to his own son for that reason"
- Frog: "I think you are reading too much into this"
Jiraiya was right. Minato left the Torii Seal for Naruto and Jiraiya taught him it because Minato wished so. To use the seal, Kyubi's chakra is required ... and we know what happens when Naruto uses Kyubi's chakra with the new seal.
Naruto's chakra cloak/Rikudou Mode or whatever affects Wood Release ... I dont want to speculate on this, but if in the next chapter a tree will grow from Tobi's head, Im right. --Elveonora (talk) 12:56, November 21, 2011 (UTC)
- We don't know. It could be a technique he learned with Sage Mode.--Cerez365™ 15:12, March 24, 2012 (UTC)