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Talk:Ten-Tails Sealing Technique

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Revision as of 12:10, July 16, 2013 by Dan.Faulkner (Talk | contribs)

Mito and the Sage

Just for the heck of it, both Mito and The Sage should have this technique, and we should change the title to make it more generic. Both Mito and The Sage are notable individuals who have been said were able to and have sealed tailed beast into themselves. Why not? It's been a long time coming and the opportunity prevents itself clearly now. I vote we change to name to "Tailed Beast Self-Sealing Technique". Senju SymbolKotoSenju (OldUser:JaZZBaND)-Talk-Contributions 09:46, July 9, 2013 (UTC)

I agree about the fact it is the same seal the Sage used, but about Mito, I don't think so.--JOA20 (talk) 10:58, July 9, 2013 (UTC)
Sage maybe. Mito, wut?--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol (talk) 11:55, July 9, 2013 (UTC)

Mito.. Wait.. What? Mito has only had Kurama sealed within her.. Not the Ten Tails? Where did that idea even come from? SusanooUnleashed (talk) 12:05, July 9, 2013 (UTC)

I'm thinking add the Sage too, since his seal design is exactly this and it can't be just a coincidence. Kishi is definitely giving us a clue here. But Mito? No. This is a specific seal (as it has now appeared on two Ten-Tails jinchūriki), we just don't know its name. We don't know what Mito did. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol 18:47, July 9, 2013 (UTC)

We don't know if the stuff on Obito's back is the seal. We also don't know if this was the technique used by the sage. Please don't add speculation to articles. All of you should know that by now. Seelentau 愛 18:50, July 9, 2013 (UTC)

So a seal, that wasn't there before, appearing on someone's back after a sealing technique is somehow unrelated to the seal and is speculation? Please explain that to me Seelentau. I'm interested to see how you spin that one. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol 18:53, July 9, 2013 (UTC)
Why do people always think this is how such things work? X is not "right until proven wrong". X is "wrong until proven right". If you say "X is Y", it's your job to provide proof since you're making that statement and not my job when I say "No, you're wrong". Seelentau 愛 18:58, July 9, 2013 (UTC)
I made my case. The seal appeared on his back after using an unnamed sealing technique to imprison the Beast within his body. It also happens to be the same seal which appears on the Sage's back, who was also a container of the exact same Beast. Furthermore, Madara notes that Obito used the "power of the Six Paths Sage", so it is very possible that this is the same, or a similar, technique that the Sage used to imprison the Beast in his body. While that last bit is iffy, there is certainly enough evidence to suggest that the markings on Obito's back is the seal. More evidence for it than there is against it. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol 19:04, July 9, 2013 (UTC)
So what you're saying is this:
The sign on Obito's back resembles the sign on the RS's mantle. Since both are or were containers for the same beast, it can be assumed that the sign on both of their backs is the result of a sealing technique.
Then please explain why the sign looks a bit different, why is it on the RS's mantle and not his back and why did he have it even after the beast was released and split into the tailed beasts? Seelentau 愛 19:09, July 9, 2013 (UTC)

Obito could have designed a fuuinjutsu after Sage cloak's design. But that wouldn't explain how would Obito or anyone know what Sage wore ;D--Elveonora (talk) 19:46, July 9, 2013 (UTC)

Exactly. What Seenlantau suggest is that its all just coincidental. Like that's ever been Kishi's policy. Its obvious that its the seal. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol 19:47, July 9, 2013 (UTC)
Taking everything into consideration, it indeed is unlikely to be a coincidence. Also @Seel, ur forgetting that Naruto's new seal also appears on his clothes and not just skin, so it certainly isn't anything new or impossible. Why would the seal vanish once the Ten-Tails has been removed?--Elveonora (talk) 19:52, July 9, 2013 (UTC)
I am with @TTF on this, the mark on Obito's back resembles the Sage and they possessed the same beast, at least the mark recalls a fūinjutsu seal, about Mito using this technique it is out of question. Dan.Faulkner (talk) 20:51, July 9, 2013 (UTC)

I don't suggest that at all. It's just that I don't want to see anything speculative added in any article. But it seems to become common behaviour here to do so. If we'd act like that, then why aren't Hashirama's torii and Naruto's torii merged? They're obviously the same, since they look the same and work the same. Going by your logic we'd have to merge those articles (and any other stuff that shares some things). @Elveonora, a seal vanishes when it's released, doesn't it? Seelentau 愛 21:39, July 9, 2013 (UTC)

Not all the time. We've seen that Minato's seal for his Flying Thunder God stays active constantly, even after he died. Joshbl56 22:12, July 9, 2013 (UTC)
Yeah, because that's a technique formula, not a seal. Seelentau 愛 22:17, July 9, 2013 (UTC)
@Josh, exactly. Danzo's technique vanished, but Orochimaru's Cursed Seals stay for example and by u mentioned Hiraishin. Depends on seal more than likely. Why would a seal from a jinchuuriki vanish once the beast has been removed? Makes no sense, unless it's been removed to extract a beast, but there are more ways to do so. @Seel, about Naruto and Hashirama's seemingly common technique, that's more speculative because there's no known connection. In Naruto's case, it's something he did only in the mental thingy and seemingly can't do so in real world, while in the latter's case it's a Sage technique and corporeal. Also no difference between a formula and a seal--Elveonora (talk) 22:22, July 9, 2013 (UTC)
Whatever? They look the same and they work the same, by your logic they've to be the same. What's with these double standards? And a formula is a formula, a seal is a seal. A seal seals something in someone/thing, a formula doesn't. Otherwise, the HnJ would be a fūinjutsu. Seelentau 愛 05:53, July 10, 2013 (UTC)
Its not the same thing. One was done in Naruto's mind, unconsciously, without him declaring a technique. The other is a Sage technique invented by Hashirama with a clearly defined name. Here we have two people with the exact same Tailed beast sealed within them, who also have the exact same seal design (give or take the "tail appendage on Obito's upper magatama being the only difference), so logic would dictate that its the seal. Secondly, a seal produces a formula on the sealed target; always. We saw it with the Dead Demon Consuming Seal, the Iron Armour Seal, even the sealing formulas on Minato's Flying Thunder God Technique. The evidence stacks up against it not being the sealing formula, so that's what we're going with. If I recall correctly, nowhere was it stated in the manga that Killer B's "iron" tattoo was the Iron Armor Seal, but the sheer obviousness of the circumstances lead it to being called so. So, now I"ll throw your question back at you. Why the double standards? ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol 06:08, July 10, 2013 (UTC)
The difference between Naruto's and Hashirama's seal is as little as the difference between Obito's and RS's seal.
Again, the HnJ doesn't use seals, it uses formulas. There's an obvious difference between a sealing formula, used to seal stuff into something, and a technique formula, used for the technique.
Of course, there's no evidence that the tattoo on B's arm is the seal itself. We'd have to remove it.
I changed the wording in this article a bit, now I'm more okay with it. You too? Seelentau 愛 06:26, July 10, 2013 (UTC)
Yeah, I'm fine with it the way it is now. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol 06:30, July 10, 2013 (UTC)

Menma

Ignoring the design upon which it is concluded to be a fuuinjutsu used specifically to seal the Ten-Tails, it looks like what Menma did to recall Kurama back into his body in the movie--Elveonora (talk) 20:06, July 9, 2013 (UTC)

White Hair

So, Naruto clearly states that Obito was using a sealing technique right from the beginning, and that even the seals he was using were different than Gedo Rinne Tensei. Madara notes that Obito had broken free of his command. So, can we infer that the white hair is actually caused by this technique? ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol 17:56, July 11, 2013 (UTC)

This entire sequence wasn't done very well. The last panel of 636 shows Obito making a hand seal that to me at least appears to match Nagato's (the snake seal). Then, from 637 onwards, it looks like the ram seal, but Obito's hair whitens, and there's the glow around Madara that looks like the Rinne Tensei. Even the cracks on Madara lessen through the course of the chapter, until Minato slashes Obito. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 18:09, July 11, 2013 (UTC)
Kishi not knowing what he does again. But oh well, the lack of King of Hell was fishy anyway--Elveonora (talk) 18:24, July 11, 2013 (UTC)
At the very least I'd say include it in the Trivia note. But, if it really was this technique all along, we could say that it was a result of the chakra exerted to seal the Ten-Tails. I'm sure sealing a massively powerful creature as this is a lot harder than just forming seals and using a technique. To me, the lack of the King of Hell, which appears for Rinne Tensei, suggests that it isn't Rinne Tensei. The aura around Madara could just be attributed to him channeling his chakra to control Obito, since, there was similar effect of chakra pulsating outwards from Nagato when he used his Six Paths of Pain (I distinctly remember seeing chakra flow out from him on at least one occasion when it showed him controlling the Deva Path from that fake tree). As for the cracks, I genuinely can't explain that, but Naruto does make it clear that Obito wasn't even forming the hand seals for Gedo Rinne Tensei, so, unless you can initiate a technique without forming the proper seals, I think we can safely rule out that he was actually using that technique, and was rather using this one. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol 18:58, July 11, 2013 (UTC)
Well, some techniques have more than one set of hand seals...
but not sure if it's possible to perform two techniques at once ._.
the aura and Madara getting make-up back on could be explained with placebo effect ;D--Elveonora (talk) 19:08, July 11, 2013 (UTC)
The only moments I recall with Nagato and chakra doing anything was when he flowed them through the chakra receivers, either as receivers or blades. And the time we did see how the chakra flowed to the receiver, courtesy of Naruto tracing it back to Nagato, it looked nothing like what happened to Madara in this. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 19:38, July 11, 2013 (UTC)

Not to mention Hashirama himself recognized it as Rinne Tensei... Kishi ate too much fish--Elveonora (talk) 19:50, July 11, 2013 (UTC)

Yes, but, as Hashirama has never seen Gedo Rinne Tensei before, we can't take his testimony. He heard Madara talking about revival since his clones were fighting with him, so he immediately thought of Rinne Tensei. Naruto said, "I've seen the Six Path's Reviving Technique, the seals are completely different. He's been trying to become the jinchūriki right from the start!" It is clear that Obito was never using Gedo Rinne Tensei. We were only lead to believe so. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol 02:02, July 12, 2013 (UTC)
Bump. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol 05:30, July 13, 2013 (UTC)
We don't know, therefore god, I mean Kishi. This simply can't be solved, manga states it's a different technique, its hand seals are those of Rinne Tensei but in reverse, curiously, yet there are lights and hair dyes... so for the time being, this fuuinjutsu also causes hair to whiten... And as I said, the aura was a result of placebo effect... Madara used Rinne Tensei on himself and assigned its cause to have resulted by Obito's doing ._. Or perhaps the remaining "Nagato's eye" I mean Madara's or rather Izuna's ;D has been transplanted into someone and that unknown individual used Rinne Tensei, uufff... Solved!--Elveonora (talk) 22:05, July 13, 2013 (UTC)

The Sealing Technique

Should we put a phrase in the trivia about the fact that Obito talked to the Five Kage's meeting about the Sage's sealing technique that was secretly passed down? Of course we don't know yet whether it is the same technique, but I guess it would be worth mentioning.--JOA20 (talk) 21:06, July 14, 2013 (UTC)

Oh, you are right. He indeed said it was passed down, but I thought he generally was referring to fuuinjutsu, or not?--Elveonora (talk) 21:41, July 14, 2013 (UTC)
True...that means that there are two other people to consider as users as well...Madara and the Sage. The Sage due to being the original Jinchuriki and Madara because it was in his plans to become the new one...can't due that without the sealing technique, and the possibility of being different sealing techniques is slim at best. Darksusanoo (talk) 22:24, July 14, 2013 (UTC)
I always saw that sentence as them talking about the branch of ninjutsu known as fūinjutsu instead of a specific technique. Other jinchūriki have been made through history, and with different seals, so for me it always made sense for him to be talking about the branch of ninjutsu. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 02:21, July 15, 2013 (UTC)
I agree with Omni and then I don't. I don't, on one hand, think Obito was referring to this technique. I also don't think he was referring to fūinjutsu in general. Obito is specifically talking about a sealing technique that results in the creation of jinchūriki. He even says something to the effect of the "jinchūriki creation techniques". I believe he is referring to a branch of fūinjutsu that allows villages to seal tailed beasts. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol 07:51, July 15, 2013 (UTC)
But Obito seemed to talk about a specific jutsu, not just the generic fūinjutsu to seal a tailed beast inside a jinchūriki.--JOA20 (talk) 08:42, July 15, 2013 (UTC)

The patter of the seal

Alright then, I'll say it here. In the image of Obito's back after he sealed the Ten-Tails into himself, the pattern of the biggest magatama is ripple-like or spiral-like? To me it looks a ripple pattern, just like the Rinnegan. So why do you say it is speculative?--JOA20 (talk) 11:57, July 16, 2013 (UTC)

Ripple-like is better than spiral, but rinnegan, thats should not be mentioned in the article for now. Dan.Faulkner (talk) 12:10, July 16, 2013 (UTC)

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