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Why are we still using the fatass Bulbasaur form? We know its true form is the "Third form", as thats what was seen in the flashbacks of Hagoromo, when Madara recreated it in a complete state, and when Kaguya reverted to it after being hit by Chibaku Tensei. --RexGodwin (talk) 22:20, July 17, 2015 (UTC)

Bump.--RexGodwin (talk) 06:05, August 1, 2015 (UTC)

Agree with this, especially since the current picture screws up its trademark eye. Anyone else?--BeyondRed (talk) 22:53, August 15, 2015 (UTC)
We're using the "fatass Bulbasaur form" in the info box because we generally use an image depicting the first appearance of the character. --Sarada Uzumaki (talk) 23:00, August 15, 2015 (UTC)

Incorrect Background info

Not really sure where to post this, since I've seen this on this page, Hagoromo, and Hamura's pages. So I'll just go ahead and post it here. "In the final battle between the Ten-Tails and Kaguya's sons, Hagoromo and Hamura, they managed to defeat the beast and sealed it within Hagoromo, making him the first jinchūriki. This act, along with many other great deeds throughout his lifetime, resulted in Hagoromo becoming revered as the "Sage of the Six Paths". However, knowing that his death would unleash the Ten-Tails back into the world to continue its rampage and reclaim the chakra he had spread among humanity, Hagoromo separated the monster's chakra from its body and used his Creation of All Things ability to create the nine tailed beasts. Hagoromo then used Chibaku Tensei to seal the Ten-Tails' husk in what would become the moon.[5][6]"

They sealed her with, which is what created the Moon with the husk being used as it's core. Just like when Naruto and Sasuke used it a thousand years later to do the same exact thing. Hamura departed with the rest of the Otsutsuki Clan to the Moon after the Ten-Tails' husk was sealed into what became known as the Moon. With Hagoromo having Asura and Indra many years later, and we know what happens beyond that point. Hamura's page cites the fourth databook when it says this, and Hagoromo said that he had his sons afterwards himself.

When Hagoromo appears himself and talks about things, he never says anything about surviving the extraction of the Ten-Tails' chakra due to him having it's husk within him. As that wouldn't make sense, since it's husk is in the Moon which Hamura and the clan left to guard many years ago. Only Madara, Obito, and Kurama say that. We know Madara, Obito, and Nagato aren't reliable sources, because the tablet they read from was tampered with by Black Zetsu. While Kurama is more reliable, he was basically a newborn at the time and may have forgotten some things or Hagoromo didn't tell him everything. But based on the new version of the story, Hagoromo and Hamura sealed the Ten-Tails' body away into what became known as the Moon with Six Paths - Chibaku Tensei. While it's chakra was sealed into Hagoromo making him it's Jinchuriki, which he later extracted and created the nine Tailed Beast from, before scattering them across the world. Then he chose his son Asura as a successor to his Six Paths Senjutsu and ninshu over Indra, and then died.

So unless we're going to go based on the older version of his story told by sources less reliable than himself, which would mean there are now two bodies of the Ten-Tails' out there and Chibaku Tensei was used twice, and that Hamura would be on his deathbed too due to being the same age as his brother when he left to go to the Moon. When, in The Last, he was shown being on the Moon when young just like he was when he fought the Ten-Tails, and was stated to have gone to the Moon right after the fight with the Ten-Tails, not after his brother was about to die. Then there is only one Gedo Mazou, Chibaku Tensei was used once, and this is all going off of the new version of the story told by Hagoromo himself, The Last, the fourth databook, and common sense. So shouldn't all of the articles that keep retelling a combination of the old and new version of the story, which would mean there is two Gedo Mazous, which is clearly wrong, be changed to reflect the new version we were given at the end of the Manga, The Last, and by the fourth databook? --Legendary Super Saiya-Jin 4 (talk) 18:59, August 16, 2015 (UTC)

Well, this is a tough one. I don't think Kurama would say something like that so surely if it were untrue.--Elve [Mod] Talk Page|Contribs 22:06, August 17, 2015 (UTC)
Yeah, but based on what the new version of the story is. Kurama has to be wrong, because it's impossible for Hagoromo to have the Gedo Mazou in him if it's already in the Moon. Which is why Hamura and the rest of the clan left to guard it, based on what was said in the fourth databook and The Last. If Hagoromo had it in him, and used it to create the Moon. That means there would be two moons, which there clearly isn't. Kurama was just a wee little pup back then, so it's possible that he forgot or Hagoromo didn't tell him everything. It makes more sense for Kurama to be wrong than right, or else nothing makes any sense at all. Hagoromo and Hamura sealed the Gedo Mazou in the core of the Moon, which Hamura and the Otsutsuki Clan left to guard, with Hagoromo becoming the Jinchuriki via it's chakra. That is the only story that makes sense, cause if we go based on all the other versions, there is two Gedo Mazous, two Moons, and Hamura would be old and nearly dead when he went to the moon, when he was shown to be young. --Legendary Super Saiya-Jin 4 (talk) 18:35, August 18, 2015 (UTC)
New information > old information. Exceptions may happen, but that's the general rule. • Seelentau 愛 18:53, August 18, 2015 (UTC)
That's basically what I'm trying to say Seel, the new version of the story contradicts the older versions. So we should go based on what the new versions say over what the older versions say, mostly cause that's usually what happens, and if we try to combine both versions all we get is a huge illogical and contradictory mess. So don't you think the articles should be changed to reflect that? --Legendary Super Saiya-Jin 4 (talk) 19:03, August 18, 2015 (UTC)
It isn't the wiki's responsibility to decide which version of events is "true" or try to reconcile discrepancies. It reports the information that's been given, noting who said what if needed for clarity. ~SnapperTo 16:15, August 19, 2015 (UTC)
Yes, it isn't our job to correct the manga. But if old information gets updated with new information, we should abide to that, shouldn't we? • Seelentau 愛 17:03, August 19, 2015 (UTC)
You can give the new information preference, but you shouldn't exclude the old info or present the old info as if it were incorrect. ~SnapperTo 17:38, August 19, 2015 (UTC)
Alright, then I'm going to add Tobi as Madara again. • Seelentau 愛 17:47, August 19, 2015 (UTC)
Just be sure to pipe the link!
I actually don't think that's a fair comparison. The series has told us that Tobi was not really Madara. The series has not told us that Kurama's version of events was wrong. ~SnapperTo 17:53, August 19, 2015 (UTC)

Kurama was most certainly wrong/Kishi forgot/changed his mind so retcon.--Elve [Mod] Talk Page|Contribs 20:39, August 19, 2015 (UTC)

@Snapper The series tells us it's wrong because all new sources tell a different version of the story, and if we follow Kurama's version, then nothing makes sense and we got two Gedo Mazous, the moon being created twice, and Hamura being old and on his deathbed when he went to the Moon. When he went to it when young, not on his deathbed. Kurama's version literally contradicts the new version completely and does nothing more than create plotholes. I'm not saying that the page shouldn't mention Kurama's version somewhere, but it shouldn't be written in such a way that his version is correct and that the two versions go together, because they don't. --Legendary Super Saiya-Jin 4 (talk) 00:29, August 20, 2015 (UTC)

It doesn't need to present Kurama's version as being correct, it just shouldn't present Kurama's version as being wrong either. So, "According to Kurama..." and leave it that. Do not introduce doubt, do not try to explain away discrepancies. ~SnapperTo 02:25, August 20, 2015 (UTC)

Then perhaps it could be written like "According to Kurama..." and then "However, Hagoromo said..." or anything else that can be said that cites Hagoromo's words, The Last, and Jin no Sho? --Legendary Super Saiya-Jin 4 (talk) 05:06, August 20, 2015 (UTC)

What we know:

  • The Ten-Tails wasn't made moon and it made on his deathbed, legend wrong, rather, young Hagoromo and Hamura fought and defeated their mom, extracted her chakra and turned her into the Gedo Mazo and sealed inside the moon, where Hamura and folks went to guard her
  • The Tailed Beasts were created when Hagoromo was old though (flashback), he got inspired by Asura to do so
  • Thus he had kept Ten-Tails' chakra for many years
  • Since Hagoromo had no Gedo Mazo and he lived until after the creation of the Tailed Beasts, he was never a jinchuuriki, otherwise he would have died from the extraction, unless Kurama is right and he had Gedo Mazo to keep him alive for a while, which doesn't explain where the second Gedo Mazo went
  • There aren't 2 moons, so if there had been a second Gedo Mazo, it couldn't have been made into a moon then

--Elve [Mod] Talk Page|Contribs 07:01, August 20, 2015 (UTC)

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