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species/classification again ...

Do we really must list it as a "tailed beast" ??? Because that isn't true, Tailed Beasts are creations from its chakra and the Ten-Tails was stated to have created the universe, so it's a deity. Just because it's a "beast" and has "tails" doesn't make it a tailed beast, would be like calling a human a hairless ape or a dog domesticated canine.--Elveonora (talk) 10:58, May 13, 2013 (UTC)

It's a beast, has tails, and is referred to most commonly as the Ten-Tails, not as a Deity despite having an actual name of one given to it. Yeah, pretty much makes it a Tailed Beast. As for your other point, Humans are Homo Sapiens, which are a genus of primate and being perfectly literal, a dog is a domesticated canine. Just because you can use more than one term to describe something, doesn't make one definition any more accurate than another.

Humans are Apes

Dogs are Canines

The Ten Tails is a Tailed Beast and a Deity.

You want to petition to get deity added, that's all well and good, but that doesn't stop it being a tailed beast. --Hawkeye2701 (talk) 16:18, May 13, 2013 (UTC)

That's my point, it's being listed as a tailed beast only because the definition is fitting its appearance, it's a "beast" and has "tails" but the term Tailed Beasts refers to beings created from its chakra by Grandpa Hermit of Six. Classifying it as a tailed beast would be like classifying Naruto as a teenage blonde dubmass shinobi humanoid specimen from leaf village. Tailed Beasts' progeny is the "Ten-Tails" and the "Ten-Tails" can't be a tailed beast because there wasn't apparently anything before it. I take the classification as a race/species status, not definition of what something looks like. Hopefully you understand what I mean. TB are creations, Jubi has no creator for what we know. God are gods, they come in many forms, in fiction anyway--Elveonora (talk) 16:53, May 13, 2013 (UTC)

How about "Classification: Deity" and "Species: Plant" ? Perhaps we should create an article for deities in general and along with Ten-Tails, include also Jashin and the Death God there?--Elveonora (talk) 13:57, May 15, 2013 (UTC)

I would leave Jyuubi as a tailed beast, regardless if the other 9 are created from it or not. Currently, it's name is Jyuubi and even if it is the actual creator of all, it's still a tailed beast (as in a beast that has tails). Trying to reclassify it gets too deep and involved to the point it's not possible, especially considering we don't have information to confirm things such as it being a god, etc. And as for plant... just... no.--98.101.165.89 (talk) 14:12, May 15, 2013 (UTC)

Kurama stated it's a god who created universe and is source of all chakra. Who is more credible? It simply isn't a tailed beast, that would be like stating god if any exist must be humanoid because we were "so" created in "his" image. Stating Jubi is a tailed beast is simply giving it false attributes and objectification, something humans are good at. Tailed Beasts aren't true/original/official beings, but creations made with Creation of All Things thus again, Ten-Tails isn't one despite its NICKname--Elveonora (talk) 14:19, May 15, 2013 (UTC)
Kurama did, but that doesn't change it from being a tailed beast. As for god, that's assuming the god looks like us, and it's not a flying bowl of pasta, or something Lovecraftian. Stating it is a tailed beast means it is a Tailed Beast, a beast with tails (10 to be precise), and the only name it is officially known by follows the same pattern as the other Tailed Beasts. No attributes are being taken away or false given by making such a conventional classification, either. What says it isn't a tailed beast? Because I currently, personally, do not see the logic in your points. Why can't it be a Tailed Beast, despite having godlike levels of power, so much so that it created the universe?--98.101.165.89 (talk) 14:34, May 15, 2013 (UTC)
Because it wasn't created by Sage of Six Path using Creation of All Things?--Elveonora (talk) 14:53, May 15, 2013 (UTC)
Which doesn't mean it isn't a Tailed Beast. Classification can have things added to it as they're introduced. It is still a beast with tails, albeit a beast with tails that is stated to have created the world and etc. --98.101.165.89 (talk) 14:55, May 15, 2013 (UTC)
Then what the classification means to begin with? A description of what something looks like? Sensors are sensitive individuals who can sense chakra and identify by and even track others. Jinchuuriki are those with TB sealed into them, but Tailed Beasts aren't called "tailed beasts" because they are beasts with tails, are they? Cause that's not even true, Chomei has wings for example and Gyuki tentacles. Meaning what the term "classification" refers to is a group of individuals, Ten-Tails can't be a part of it--Elveonora (talk) 15:07, May 15, 2013 (UTC)

Point of clarification: The Ten-Tails is labeled as "Tailed Beast" because at the time of the pages creation, the Ten-Tails was simply known as the precurser of the tailed beasts and we weren't told that he was some sort of god. He is also, probably not some sort of god, at least in the context of the show, but a very old and pissed off demon. Ideally, it's classification should have been "Demon" from the start but there we go.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol (talk) 16:08, May 15, 2013 (UTC)

Why do you assume otherwise? The last we were told was that it's a god who more or less created the whole Narutoverse (in-universe-wise, out it's Kishimoto of course :-I), so unless Kurama lied or doesn't know any better than we do, it's true and there's no reason to doubt it because we list what we are told not what we think. The most correct classifications I see for it are "deity, progenitor, creator" all meaning the same things contextually, nothing else. For the species, biologically it resembles a plant-animal hybrid, but I don't know a term for such a creature so... plant--Elveonora (talk) 16:36, May 15, 2013 (UTC)
Because we were also told it was a natural disaster, a giant, and a Deidarabotchi which is a fancy name for a demon. We've also called the First and Third Gods, but they weren't exactly deities.
Anyway we are arguing semantics and I honestly care very very little about this topic. I was just pointing out why the Ten-Tails was classified as a Tailed Beast.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol (talk) 16:43, May 15, 2013 (UTC)
I have no issue with leaving the thing as a tailed beast it is just a generic classification we use for them, because essentially it is a name created by people for them and not what they are. Sometimes, you guys take things like classifications too literal, should we also then not classify the nine tailed beasts as demi gods? As where are you guys getting the information that the Ten-Tails is a plant? Just because it's mouth looks like one? The bulb on his back looks plant-like as well, doesn't make the beast a plant...--Cerez365Hyūga Symbol(talk) 17:06, May 15, 2013 (UTC)
A lot of things are called "god" in this series, Elve. The Sage of the Six Paths, Hashirama, and even Hiruzen Sarutobi. That just means that's what people called them. Also, I cross referenced where you've been citing that the Ten-Tails "created the universe". No, it wasn't even stated to have created the planet. It was said that it was the origin of all life on the planet. Those are two very different concepts. Secondly, you seem to be overlooking the fact that the Tailed Beasts, throughout Naruto are referred to as demons. It is more likely, considering this is a Japanese series (and one of its names is Deidarabotchi), based on Japanese mythology, that the Ten-Tails is a demon, like Ultimate said, than some sort of "god". Either way, Tailed Beast does for a good description, but if it is absolutely demanded, we can change it to demon — but I don't think anyone is ready to classify it as a "god". And it is certainly not a freaking plant. Its mouth may look like one, and yes it has a bulb on its back, but that could just as well make it a freaking Venasaur. Let's leave speculation out of this. I really don't see why any of this matters, but, oh well. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol 17:18, May 15, 2013 (UTC)
So Zero-Tails isn't a tailed beast (ignoring it's movie-only status, let's say it's canon) but Ten-Tails is? So if the term is just generic, then Nine-Tailed Naruto Clone and that thing the Uzumaki Clan leader sealed in anime should be one too. That's why the term isn't and shouldn't be generic, rather it has to refer to creation by grandpa sage of six. And no, Tailed Beasts aren't demi-gods because they have a creator, Jubi doesn't for what we know but itself is The Creator. @Ten Tailed Fox, it's been stated to be source of all chakra and progeny of everything that exists. For the plant thing, well, it has a physical form, there are biological kingdoms and since it resembles a plant-animal hybrid, it most closely looks like a something that would belong among plants since I don't think such a being does exist (plant-animal hybrid) in real life thus no term for it. EDIT: Hashirama, Sage of Six and Hiruzen were referred to as "god of shinobi" not "gods"--Elveonora (talk) 17:28, May 15, 2013 (UTC)

(Restarting the indents) No, canon or not, the Zero-Tails is not a Tailed Beast. It has no tails. Those are sorta required for Tailed Beasts. The Ten-Tails, as it so happens, has ten of them — more than any of the others, near as I can figure, so I'd say he fits that description pretty well. I don't know what you're talking about with the other two, so I can respond to those, but it would seem you're using anime-only content to justify classifying a demon as some sort of plant-god. Also, Elve, it really does say its the originator of life on the planet, not the planet, not the universe. Double-check your sources here. Not that it matters either way. Its not a plant, no matter how much it looks like one, and I don't think you're going to convince anyone here to label it as such. Might be a worthy triva note, but until Kishi comes out saying that the Ten-Tails is the pissed off "god of flowers", I'm not buying it. Its a demon. Beasts like it have been called demons througout the series, and it was even introduced as the "primordial demon". So yes, I'm not buying your argument. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol 17:34, May 15, 2013 (UTC)

My point is that if we classify the Ten-Tails as a "tailed beast" then any monster with tails should we. We label species for Kurama as Kitsune, Shukaku as Tanuki so why not for the Ten-Tails? Also they were never stated to be demons, it's only what people of Narutoverse believed them to be, just like Suna believed Shukaku to be a corrupted priest, don't mix in-universe myths with out-universe facts please--Elveonora (talk) 17:42, May 15, 2013 (UTC)
Zero-Tails is a misnomer, I thought we were all clear on this...? You're also taking the word "generic" too literal, within the Narutoverse Tailed Beast does not mean the same thing as a creature with a tail, it in all cases refers to the (for want of another word) tailed beasts. I can understand maybe classifying it as "Primordial Tailed Beast" but I'm not for calling it a god.--Cerez365Hyūga Symbol(talk) 17:44, May 15, 2013 (UTC)
Well, I'm for calling it anything but a tailed beast, so you don't want to call it god but demon yes? There's nothing to suggest it's a demon or that demons exist in this fiction for that matter--Elveonora (talk) 17:46, May 15, 2013 (UTC)
Only reason I'd call any of them demons is because it'd sound cool, not because they were actual demons and that's what they were thought to be a long time ago (hence why everybody was X-Tail Demon Y). I don't think many traces of that are left on the wikia, with the exception of possibly Kurama who was called such.--Cerez365Hyūga Symbol(talk) 17:51, May 15, 2013 (UTC)
Finally... I thought I'm talking to a wall. It's a matter what is true, not what is thought to be true. They were also thought to be primitive and natural occurrences of sort, yet know it's false now. Things are getting changed and we update them as plot moves forward. And it's sad that I'm the only one who cares... if no one cared about anything, then this place would have looked badly, filled with fanon or not even existed anymore/in the first place. Also the article itself says that according to Kurama it's a god, so why not to list it as one? Another case it says tailed beasts were created from its chakra, yet we list it as one too. I sense lots of bias, leaving untrue information around for whatever reason (or lack of thereof it seems)--Elveonora (talk) 18:12, May 15, 2013 (UTC)
Would you be happy if, instead of corrupting this page, we update the other pages so everything matches and reflects how it should be? That makes more sense to me than putting frivolous things for the classification. Everyone cares, but we don't believe in the same things as you do. I, for one, don't think it is an issue and is how it should be, yet you do not. See the problem? --98.101.165.89 (talk) 18:21, May 15, 2013 (UTC)
Yes, the problem is that some are okay with it being false because it's generally accepted as such so there's not much need to change it. It's not a matter of belief, but what is true. The introduction section for Jubi used to say it's a demon, I changed that. Now I'm discussing or rather arguing as it seems that the classification is also being changed--Elveonora (talk) 18:26, May 15, 2013 (UTC)

(TMI - Too many indents). The problem is you're making a fuss about something that is not incorrect or false. Changing it from demon doesn't mean it's true -- you believe it is, but it had been called a demon before, so that wouldn't be incorrect. But by all account and standards that you're desiring, with a lot of delusion, then we should leave the classification completely blank as the Jyuubi is nothing that we know of. Except that what is actually true is that it is a Tailed Beast. It may be the original Tailed Beast, whose power created all the life on whatever scale you desire, but it still a tailed beast that follows the pattern that the other 9 have been built into by Kish. There's absolutely nothing wrong here, and that's not a belief.--98.101.165.89 (talk) 18:33, May 15, 2013 (UTC)

Sharingan has been stated by Kakashi to be delivered from Byakugan, Nagato has been believed by Jiraiya to have been Sage of Six Paths reborn and the Rinnegan is nothing but a mutation, doesn't make them true. Yes, TB were called demons, but they were/are still called and believed to be many things by people of Narutoverse, falsely I must add. Also can you link me to where the word "demon" is ever used in reference to Jubi? I don't remember such thing, while I remember it being called a god.--Elveonora (talk) 18:39, May 15, 2013 (UTC)
Kakashi mentioned that there are people who believe Sharigan may be derived. It was not an assertion or a matter-of-fact. Nagato;Jiraiya;Rinnegan -- extraneous. They are called demons and by all rights, they can be demons. Why can't they be demons? Demons aren't the same thing in other cultures as they are for Christians. Your points do not contribute to your argument, sadly. As for Jyuubi being called a demon, someone already pointed it out, and its also in the article as a name used to reference it (which was also pointed out above by someone). And, by your completely valid point -- just because its called a god, doesn't mean it is... right? You kinda contradicted yourself, there.--98.101.165.89 (talk) 18:45, May 15, 2013 (UTC)
Exactly! That's why I oppose the term "demon" everyone interprets it differently, also Kishimoto incorporates elements from many myths and religions into his manga + adding his own touch, so calling it a demon possibly causes misinterpretation between individuals. Kurama is more reliable than anyone because it's who knows how old, met Sage of Six Paths himself and is a "child" of the very creature we are discussing, so it should know more about it than anyone.--Elveonora (talk) 19:04, May 15, 2013 (UTC)
Its not a god anymore than it is a flower. It is the original tailed beast, which is why it has that classification. I, once again, don't see why this is an issue. I don't think we really need to get into the specifics of what the beast is, because it hasn't been explicitly stated. Kurama calls it a god, Obito called it a demon and the original tailed beast, Kurama also called it Daidarbotchi, which is a type of demon, so Tailed beast is going to have to do for now. Until Kishi gives us a more explicit classification of what it is, it is the most correct classification we have that doesn't dip into the realm of fan fiction and speculation. This is a pointless conversation that will get the site, nor the article, nowhere. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol 19:08, May 15, 2013 (UTC)
How about progenitor of tailed beasts and we move Ten-Tails from [[1]] to similar cases or create a separate section for it from the other 9?--Elveonora (talk) 19:38, May 15, 2013 (UTC)

No, its not a similar case. Its the original Tailed Beast. Tailed Beast works just fine for now, until Kishi decides (if he decides) to tell us exactly what it is. The only thing the series tells us is the speculation of what it is from Obito (tailed beast, demon), Madara (demon), and Kurama's (god, demon) standpoint, and they're all conflicting, meaning you cannot pick and choose who is correct and who isn't. Other than that, we have noting concrete. Your speculation won't help bridge this gap. The classification we have right now is fine. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol 03:56, May 16, 2013 (UTC)

Okay... I won't push on for the time being. I just wanted a change so it's clear there's a distinction between the 9 creatures and Jubi--Elveonora (talk) 11:51, May 16, 2013 (UTC)

Jutsu

why is it that only tenpenchi is in its jutsu box, i mean it used a bijuudama right? 112.208.156.223 (talk) 05:06, May 16, 2013 (UTC)

As it says on the main page, we have some bugs in the infobox system. Jacce | Talk | Contributions 05:07, May 16, 2013 (UTC)

Nine Tomoes

In chapter 632, it's eye once again displayed nine tomoes, I think it was worth of notice since it's growing closer to it's original form.World Master (talk) 13:06, June 9, 2013 (UTC)

The detail wasn't even put on the eye, how can you tell?--Elveonora (talk) 13:11, June 9, 2013 (UTC)

Infobox image

So, the old image of the Ten-Tails which is its first début should be used since the cover of volume #64 and the coloured release of chapter #638 show that it has red eye instead of its purple eye, right? Shakhmootssign_zps2a261e68.png(Contact) 11:32, July 24, 2013 (UTC)

...What?--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol (talk) 12:21, July 24, 2013 (UTC)
Should we use this instead of the current one? Because the current one seems wrong according to the volume #64 cover and the coloured release of chapter #638. Get it?? Shakhmootssign_zps2a261e68.png(Contact) 15:30, July 24, 2013 (UTC)
Oh. Titans no. Basically that is a terribad black mass with a red eye where the animators failed spectacularly with a shadow. The current one is more in line with with this picture from the manga.
Also, the eye is red in both images.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol (talk) 16:10, July 24, 2013 (UTC)
Ah, I got it .. I know that Ik-Hyun Eum screwed it in that episode. Thank you for clarifying that. Shakhmootssign_zps2a261e68.png(Contact) 17:11, July 24, 2013 (UTC)

Wood Release

I know this has already been discussed, but Obito's latest attack, the "Wood Release: Flowering Tree" uses the same plants that the Ten-Tails emerged from its mouth. They are also producing Tailed Beast Balls just like the Ten-Tails. Are we going to add the Wood Release kekkei genkai to the Ten-Tails, or remove the Wood Release from the flowering tree and call it a Tailed Beast Skill? Omega64 (talk) 18:02, August 18, 2013 (UTC)

Unless the chapter itself called it Wood Release, I don't see how could anyone come to that conclusion so hastily--Elveonora (talk) 18:05, August 18, 2013 (UTC)
Well someone created a page already, although it is italicized. I just thought that, in the interest of consistency, that we either change it to a Tailed Beast Skill or make the Ten-Tails a Wood Release user. Honestly, I kind of felt the Wood Release comes from the Ten-Tails anyway, but I agree it needs to be said first. I just wanted to make it known that the article was there more or less and what it was implying. Omega64 (talk) 18:19, August 18, 2013 (UTC)
Let's try keeping the discussion in one talk page, avoid fragmentation. I already replied at the jutsu's talk page. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 19:37, August 18, 2013 (UTC)

(Reset indent) The Ten-Tails is not using Wood Release. Obito used Wood Release: Cutting Technique. You can even see him calling out its name. Of course he can't use it on that scale alone; he channeled it through the Ten-Tails' hands. Its not that hard to do. You claim channeling has never been done before, but it has. Obito, Nagato, and Madara have channeled techniques through corpses (Six Paths of Pain) and black rods respectively. And you forget that, by himself, Nagato can't use Shinra Tensei on a massive scale, but through his Deva Path body, he could use it large enough to blow up a village. Secondly, the technique you keep trying to use as proof of a second instance, isn't an instance at all. It's Obito activating a Wood Technique, and shaping it in the likeness of the Ten-Tails' flowers. Wood Release is the kekkei genkai of Hashirama Senju and no one other than himself, and those possessing his DNA have ever, ever been shown using it. Are you really suggesting the Ten-Tails has his DNA? Nope. But guess who does? Obito; who is behind both instances of Wood being used in your examples. Case in point. That's all I'll say on this matter. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol 01:23, August 20, 2013 (UTC)

Let me break down the wrongs on your theory: First off, a KKG works on a blood/DNA/genetic level...so even if Obito did channel his technique, he couldn't do that unless the Ten-Tails had the proper genes to activate the WR. Channel or no channel, it was the beast's body that was used. Second off, Madara never used the Six Paths of Pain. Third, Nagato was the only one who channeled the Six Paths Techniques through his Six Paths of Pain. Fourth in order to do that, he need to use the receivers as a way to transmit his chakra and channel the techniques. Fifth, Hashirama was the only known natural user of his time...but the Ten-Tails is older than that...reffered as the creator of the world...add to his ever expanding plant-like nature and maybe it was the origin of the WR, not Hashi. So your case in point isn't all that solid. Darksusanoo (talk) 01:38, August 20, 2013 (UTC)
Actually, its dead solid. Here's why. First, I don't know what on earth your talking about with Kekkei Genkai, Obito channeled his Rinnegan and Sharingan through his Six Paths, while Nagato channeled his Rinnegan through his own. You forget, Obito was connected to the Ten-Tails at the time via a root, so channeling techniques and chakra through it is easily accomplished. Obito could channel the Six Paths Technique through his Paths, but both Naruto and B noted that he didn't since they already knew how to counter those techniques, and therefore, would've been useless. Hashirama is the only known user of Wood Release outside others with his DNA, so, until you can prove the Ten-Tails has it, it doesn't have Wood Release. Furthermore, I'll say it again. Obito has the DNA, and he's the only one you see initiating those Wood Release techniques. He calls out their names/summons them himself. The Ten-Tails is little more than the gun he shoots the ammunition through. There is no evidence otherwise. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol 01:46, August 20, 2013 (UTC)
Hum...for that Obito needed the rods to channel the technique...the rods were designed to channel chakra, to serve as a lightning rod of sorts to connect Obito and Nagato to use their techniques...the roots, as reffered by Madara were to control the Ten-Tails, unless you can prove otherwise, that the roots had the same function as the rods...perhaps if Obito had used a rod to channel his technique. So again...the wood spikes were created from the Ten-Tails body...in order for that to happen, it needed to have the right DNA to trigger that. Darksusanoo (talk) 01:53, August 20, 2013 (UTC)
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