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== merge ==
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==Infobox image==
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Why are we still using the fatass Bulbasaur form? We know its true form is the "Third form", as thats what was seen in the flashbacks of Hagoromo, when Madara recreated it in a complete state, and when Kaguya reverted to it after being hit by Chibaku Tensei. --[[User:RexGodwin|RexGodwin]] ([[User talk:RexGodwin|talk]]) 22:20, July 17, 2015 (UTC)
   
Should we merge this and Gedo Statue articles or better to wait for the next chapter for more info?--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 17:03, July 18, 2012 (UTC)
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Bump.--[[User:RexGodwin|RexGodwin]] ([[User talk:RexGodwin|talk]]) 06:05, August 1, 2015 (UTC)
:I vote for the latter. Too many unknowns to do that and even if, they're two separate things. The statue just seems like a body for the Ten-Tails to inhibit, not its actual body which was sealed into the moon.--[[User:Cerez365|Cerez<small>365</small><sup>™</sup>]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 17:20, July 18, 2012 (UTC)
 
::Definitely wait. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 17:24, July 18, 2012 (UTC)
 
:::I think we should wait because theoretically the Ten-tails was firstly closed inside the Moon, which was a chibaku tensei of the Rikodou, so it is not sure if the Gedo Mazou is really some sort of container/invocating statue or not. Actually I'm not even sure on how will the ten-tails let [[Tobi]] go on with his plans and how will the statue affect on that. So I think they shouldn't be merged even knowing it, because maybe they're different things. <span class="error">Template loop detected: [[User:Khaliszt/sig subst]]</span>
 
Doesn't make much sense, Gedo Statue + chakra of all beasts = Ten-Tails, thus it must be it's body.--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 17:26, July 18, 2012 (UTC)
 
   
Confirmed. Gedo mazo is the ten tails body. Merge. [[User:MangekyoSasuke|MangekyoSasuke]] ([[User talk:MangekyoSasuke|talk]]) 17:28, October 17, 2012 (UTC)
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:Agree with this, especially since the current picture screws up its trademark eye. Anyone else?--[[User:BeyondRed|BeyondRed]] ([[User talk:BeyondRed|talk]]) 22:53, August 15, 2015 (UTC)
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::We're using the "fatass Bulbasaur form" in the info box because we generally use an image depicting the first appearance of the character. --[[User:Sarada Uzumaki|Sarada Uzumaki]] ([[User talk:Sarada Uzumaki|talk]]) 23:00, August 15, 2015 (UTC)
   
^ Yes, because Madara said the Rinnegan enabled him to break the seal of the Sage that held the Ten-tails's body in it.
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== Incorrect Background info ==
   
In Chapter 610 page 6, Madara refers to the Ten-Tails as "Mazo"... Does this not confirm that the Gedo Mazo is the Ten-Tails after all... Merger time?...--[[User:D!ABLO-32|D!ABLO-32]] ([[User talk:D!ABLO-32|talk]]) 13:42, November 20, 2012 (UTC)
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Not really sure where to post this, since I've seen this on this page, Hagoromo, and Hamura's pages. So I'll just go ahead and post it here.
:Still against it. This chapter also gave the Ten-Tails a characteristic the statue was never mentioned to have, being like a force of nature, and as such being sensable by Sage Mode. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 01:13, November 21, 2012 (UTC)
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"In the final battle between the Ten-Tails and Kaguya's sons, Hagoromo and Hamura, they managed to defeat the beast and sealed it within Hagoromo, making him the first jinchūriki. This act, along with many other great deeds throughout his lifetime, resulted in Hagoromo becoming revered as the "Sage of the Six Paths". However, knowing that his death would unleash the Ten-Tails back into the world to continue its rampage and reclaim the chakra he had spread among humanity, Hagoromo separated the monster's chakra from its body and used his Creation of All Things ability to create the nine tailed beasts. Hagoromo then used Chibaku Tensei to seal the Ten-Tails' husk in what would become the moon.[5][6]"
   
its just words swaying madara says chakra of the mazo, obito says power of the juubi, meh. or btw elvenora its just all bijuu chakra, the juubi is the fusion of all tailed beasts not body, it can go from body to body chris brown yeahaaa.--[[User:Manga-anime90001|Manga-anime90001]] ([[User talk:Manga-anime90001|talk]]) 10:47, November 21, 2012 (UTC)
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They sealed her with http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Six_Paths_%E2%80%94_Chibaku_Tensei, which is what created the Moon with the husk being used as it's core. Just like when Naruto and Sasuke used it a thousand years later to do the same exact thing. Hamura departed with the rest of the Otsutsuki Clan to the Moon after the Ten-Tails' husk was sealed into what became known as the Moon. With Hagoromo having Asura and Indra many years later, and we know what happens beyond that point. Hamura's page cites the fourth databook when it says this, and Hagoromo said that he had his sons afterwards himself.
   
== New Image ==
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When Hagoromo appears himself and talks about things, he never says anything about surviving the extraction of the Ten-Tails' chakra due to him having it's husk within him. As that wouldn't make sense, since it's husk is in the Moon which Hamura and the clan left to guard many years ago. Only Madara, Obito, and Kurama say that. We know Madara, Obito, and Nagato aren't reliable sources, because the tablet they read from was tampered with by Black Zetsu. While Kurama is more reliable, he was basically a newborn at the time and may have forgotten some things or Hagoromo didn't tell him everything. But based on the new version of the story, Hagoromo and Hamura sealed the Ten-Tails' body away into what became known as the Moon with Six Paths - Chibaku Tensei. While it's chakra was sealed into Hagoromo making him it's Jinchuriki, which he later extracted and created the nine Tailed Beast from, before scattering them across the world. Then he chose his son Asura as a successor to his Six Paths Senjutsu and ninshu over Indra, and then died.
Excuse me...Members of the Wiki, I am a Naruto fan that likes to be surfing in this Wiki, I just checked the new Naruto chapter that debuted today, where Kurama explained to everyone what he knew about the Ten-Tails, and while he was doing it, a new image of the Ten-Tails was seen, even if it was only its back, the Ten-Tails looked kinda different, with more spiky protusions on its back and on its tails. Shouldn't this be added to the Appearence part of his page? {{Unsigned|200.59.28.10}}
 
:Let's see [[User:Khaliszt|Khaliszt]] ([[User talk:Khaliszt|talk]]) 
 
   
On your point if you are talking about the appearance in the manga no I don't think the image should change because as it says and shows that is its incomplete form, it only shows with 6-9 tomeo and that it has no legs, wait until the next chapter as it appears it's form is changing. --Elvesyou 16:36, December 8, 2012 (UTC)
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So unless we're going to go based on the older version of his story told by sources less reliable than himself, which would mean there are now two bodies of the Ten-Tails' out there and Chibaku Tensei was used twice, and that Hamura would be on his deathbed too due to being the same age as his brother when he left to go to the Moon. When, in The Last, he was shown being on the Moon when young just like he was when he fought the Ten-Tails, and was stated to have gone to the Moon right after the fight with the Ten-Tails, not after his brother was about to die. Then there is only one Gedo Mazou, Chibaku Tensei was used once, and this is all going off of the new version of the story told by Hagoromo himself, The Last, the fourth databook, and common sense. So shouldn't all of the articles that keep retelling a combination of the old and new version of the story, which would mean there is two Gedo Mazous, which is clearly wrong, be changed to reflect the new version we were given at the end of the Manga, The Last, and by the fourth databook? --[[User:Legendary Super Saiya-Jin 4|Legendary Super Saiya-Jin 4]] ([[User talk:Legendary Super Saiya-Jin 4|talk]]) 18:59, August 16, 2015 (UTC)
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:Well, this is a tough one. I don't think Kurama would say something like that so surely if it were untrue.--[[User:Elveonora|'''Elve''']] {{Mod}} <sup><small>[[User talk:Elveonora|Talk Page]]|[[Special:Contributions/Elveonora|Contribs]]</small></sup> 22:06, August 17, 2015 (UTC)
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::Yeah, but based on what the new version of the story is. Kurama has to be wrong, because it's impossible for Hagoromo to have the Gedo Mazou in him if it's already in the Moon. Which is why Hamura and the rest of the clan left to guard it, based on what was said in the fourth databook and The Last. If Hagoromo had it in him, and used it to create the Moon. That means there would be two moons, which there clearly isn't. Kurama was just a wee little pup back then, so it's possible that he forgot or Hagoromo didn't tell him everything. It makes more sense for Kurama to be wrong than right, or else nothing makes any sense at all. Hagoromo and Hamura sealed the Gedo Mazou in the core of the Moon, which Hamura and the Otsutsuki Clan left to guard, with Hagoromo becoming the Jinchuriki via it's chakra. That is the only story that makes sense, cause if we go based on all the other versions, there is two Gedo Mazous, two Moons, and Hamura would be old and nearly dead when he went to the moon, when he was shown to be young. --[[User:Legendary Super Saiya-Jin 4|Legendary Super Saiya-Jin 4]] ([[User talk:Legendary Super Saiya-Jin 4|talk]]) 18:35, August 18, 2015 (UTC)
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:::New information > old information. Exceptions may happen, but that's the general rule. • [[User:Seelentau|Seelentau 愛]] <sup>[[User Talk:Seelentau|議]]</sup> 18:53, August 18, 2015 (UTC)
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::::That's basically what I'm trying to say Seel, the new version of the story contradicts the older versions. So we should go based on what the new versions say over what the older versions say, mostly cause that's usually what happens, and if we try to combine both versions all we get is a huge illogical and contradictory mess. So don't you think the articles should be changed to reflect that? --[[User:Legendary Super Saiya-Jin 4|Legendary Super Saiya-Jin 4]] ([[User talk:Legendary Super Saiya-Jin 4|talk]]) 19:03, August 18, 2015 (UTC)
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:::::It isn't the wiki's responsibility to decide which version of events is "true" or try to reconcile discrepancies. It reports the information that's been given, noting who said what if needed for clarity. '''''~[[User:Snapper2|Snapper]][[User talk:Snapper2|T]][[Special:Contributions/Snapper2|o]]''''' 16:15, August 19, 2015 (UTC)
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::::::Yes, it isn't our job to correct the manga. But if old information gets updated with new information, we should abide to that, shouldn't we? • [[User:Seelentau|Seelentau 愛]] <sup>[[User Talk:Seelentau|議]]</sup> 17:03, August 19, 2015 (UTC)
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:::::::You can give the new information preference, but you shouldn't exclude the old info or present the old info as if it were incorrect. '''''~[[User:Snapper2|Snapper]][[User talk:Snapper2|T]][[Special:Contributions/Snapper2|o]]''''' 17:38, August 19, 2015 (UTC)
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::::::::Alright, then I'm going to add Tobi as Madara again. • [[User:Seelentau|Seelentau 愛]] <sup>[[User Talk:Seelentau|議]]</sup> 17:47, August 19, 2015 (UTC)
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:::::::::Just be sure to pipe the link!
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:::::::::I actually don't think that's a fair comparison. The series has told us that Tobi was not really Madara. The series has not told us that Kurama's version of events was wrong. '''''~[[User:Snapper2|Snapper]][[User talk:Snapper2|T]][[Special:Contributions/Snapper2|o]]''''' 17:53, August 19, 2015 (UTC)
   
== Datara ==
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Kurama was most certainly wrong/Kishi forgot/changed his mind so retcon.--[[User:Elveonora|'''Elve''']] {{Mod}} <sup><small>[[User talk:Elveonora|Talk Page]]|[[Special:Contributions/Elveonora|Contribs]]</small></sup> 20:39, August 19, 2015 (UTC)
   
I saw [[User:Cerez365]] added son info on the other Jübi name, Datara. But I create this page to discuss it because referring to the source he used, it had only one leg, and we can see the Ten-Tails has more than one.. Anyway I just want to discuss why this would be like that, and NOT the fact that it was corrected to ''Datara'', I think Cerez365 searched and took an extremely accurate source, even taking to consider the "blacksmithing" thing, it's been said that the Ten-tails created many things so it wouldn't be surprising! My guess is simply that a Beast with only one leg is much more unsurprising that such of a Beast like Ten Tails.. and Kishimoto knows that, lol [[User:Khaliszt|Khaliszt]] ([[User talk:Khaliszt|talk]])
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@Snapper The series tells us it's wrong because all new sources tell a different version of the story, and if we follow Kurama's version, then nothing makes sense and we got two Gedo Mazous, the moon being created twice, and Hamura being old and on his deathbed when he went to the Moon. When he went to it when young, not on his deathbed. Kurama's version literally contradicts the new version completely and does nothing more than create plotholes. I'm not saying that the page shouldn't mention Kurama's version somewhere, but it shouldn't be written in such a way that his version is correct and that the two versions go together, because they don't. --[[User:Legendary Super Saiya-Jin 4|Legendary Super Saiya-Jin 4]] ([[User talk:Legendary Super Saiya-Jin 4|talk]]) 00:29, August 20, 2015 (UTC)
   
== Tailed beasts ==
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:It doesn't need to present Kurama's version as being ''correct'', it just shouldn't present Kurama's version as being wrong either. So, "According to Kurama..." and leave it that. Do not introduce doubt, do not try to explain away discrepancies. '''''~[[User:Snapper2|Snapper]][[User talk:Snapper2|T]][[Special:Contributions/Snapper2|o]]''''' 02:25, August 20, 2015 (UTC)
   
Should we go on treating them as "it"? Kurama wouldn't be happy about it.. [[User:Khaliszt|Khaliszt]] ([[User talk:Khaliszt|talk]])
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Then perhaps it could be written like "According to Kurama..." and then "However, Hagoromo said..." or anything else that can be said that cites Hagoromo's words, The Last, and Jin no Sho? --[[User:Legendary Super Saiya-Jin 4|Legendary Super Saiya-Jin 4]] ([[User talk:Legendary Super Saiya-Jin 4|talk]]) 05:06, August 20, 2015 (UTC)
:They've never been referred to with gender-specific pronouns in Japanese. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 22:05, July 20, 2012 (UTC)
 
:: Really? Didn't know! sorry then, I didn't say anything then ^^ [[User:Khaliszt|Khaliszt]] ([[User talk:Khaliszt|talk]])
 
   
== classification ==
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What we know:
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* The Ten-Tails wasn't made moon and it made on his deathbed, legend wrong, rather, young Hagoromo and Hamura fought and defeated their mom, extracted her chakra and turned her into the Gedo Mazo and sealed inside the moon, where Hamura and folks went to guard her
I don't think we should treat it as a Tailed Beasts, as they were created by So6p from it's chakra... it's more of a God/demon if anything. Even though it was sealed in the grandpa Rikudou, Tailed Beasts are just a mass of living chakra (physical and spiritual energy given soul/consciousness) while the Ten-Tail's chakra got ripped and it's body remained and it had to be sealed in the moon.
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* The Tailed Beasts were created when Hagoromo was old though (flashback), he got inspired by Asura to do so
Not to mention it's highly likely that Gedo Statue Guy is "it" thus that goes against the definition of a Tailed Beasts (being chakra monster) while the Ten-Tails was "the progenitor"--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 11:29, August 25, 2012 (UTC)
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* Thus he had kept Ten-Tails' chakra for many years
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* Since Hagoromo had no Gedo Mazo and he lived until after the creation of the Tailed Beasts, '''he was never a jinchuuriki''', otherwise he would have died from the extraction, unless Kurama is right and he had Gedo Mazo to keep him alive for a while, which doesn't explain where the second Gedo Mazo went
== Species (infobox) ==
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* There aren't 2 moons, so if there had been a second Gedo Mazo, it couldn't have been made into a moon then
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--[[User:Elveonora|'''Elve''']] {{Mod}} <sup><small>[[User talk:Elveonora|Talk Page]]|[[Special:Contributions/Elveonora|Contribs]]</small></sup> 07:01, August 20, 2015 (UTC)
Should we list it as a [[demon]]? --[[User:Aged Goblin|<font size="4"><span style='color: Goblin'><font face="Old English Text MT">'''''The Goblin'''''</font></span></font>]] 17:36, September 19, 2012 (UTC)
 
:Wouldn't classifying it/ the tailed beasts as demons inaccurate o.O?--[[User:Cerez365|Cerez<small>365</small><sup>™</sup>]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 17:48, September 19, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
I don't this we should even list it as a "tailed beast" because see above... I'm for a "deity" or something--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 22:41, September 19, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
== Chapter 510 ==
 
 
This is the best scan I could find of chapter 510, and the eye seems to be missing the tomoes for me.
 
 
[[http://i1110.photobucket.com/albums/h441/Fox_969/juubi.png]]
 
 
[[User:Fox616|Fox616]] ([[User talk:Fox616|talk]]) 16:46, September 27, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
== "the progenitor" ==
 
 
Shouldn't we include such title in it's infobox?--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 00:02, November 16, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
'Progenitor' means an ancestor in the direct line. The tailed beasts, and the sage were implying this to naruto, kurama thought back on.
 
 
bump lol, even the chapter is called as such--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 19:32, March 12, 2013 (UTC)
 
 
== Question ==
 
 
Why is it that the silhouette of the Ten-Tails still being used? The only thing possibly wrong was the missing set of tomoe but in chapter 606, when Madara sent Obito into a genjutsu to explain his plan, when Madara depicted the Ten-Tails carving it was shown with only 2 rows of tomoe. Kishi could have changed the design, he has done so with other things. [[Special:Contributions/75.238.191.98|75.238.191.98]] ([[User talk:75.238.191.98|talk]]) 11:50, November 18, 2012 (UTC)
 
Bump[[Special:Contributions/75.234.7.254|75.234.7.254]] ([[User talk:75.234.7.254|talk]]) 01:35,
 
November 19, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
You are indeed correct--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 02:48, November 19, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
I wouldn't jump to that answer. The mural in 606 only really shows the face and is frightfully inadequate being a mural of the creature with the sage in it. If anything the image at the end of 609 is better, but given we're likely to get an even better picture of it next week, I think the higher ups basically decided it was pointless to swap it out when a better image was right around the corner and chose wait it out. If for some reason we don't get a new picture, we'll likely swap it out for the full body shot in 609. --[[User:Hawkeye2701|Hawkeye2701]] ([[User talk:Hawkeye2701|talk]]) 03:24, November 19, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
I think the main point is that the eye appears to have been retconned.--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 03:28, November 19, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
True, but the question was, why are we still using the silhouette image. Simple answer, even if retconned a mural picture doesn't cut it and timing allows for us to get a better shot come the small hours of Wednesday morning. So all we need to resolve that matter is a little patience. But if it's that big a deal, trivia about the seeming retcon can be added to trivia, right? --[[User:Hawkeye2701|Hawkeye2701]] ([[User talk:Hawkeye2701|talk]]) 03:34, November 19, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
What retcon is everybody talking about regarding the eye? So it's missing a ring and three tomoe, it makes sense, considering that the Ten-Tails is technically incomplete. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 20:45, November 19, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
It has such eye in chapter 606 as well on the "wall" --[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 20:48, November 19, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
As of the latest chapter , when i look at the Jūbi's eye it look like a mix of a Sharingan and Rinnegan--[[User:Tchad1|Tchad1]] ([[User talk:Tchad1|talk]]) 13:24, November 20, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
We should update the image now. Any good ones from the latest chapter? --[[User:Hawkeye2701|Hawkeye2701]] ([[User talk:Hawkeye2701|talk]]) 18:30, November 20, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
:In my opinion, there are none. Every picture of the Ten-Tails has just been awful.--[[User:TheUltimate3|'''TheUltimate3''']] [[File:Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg|20px]][[User Talk:TheUltimate3| <sup>(talk)</sup>]] 19:02, November 20, 2012 (UTC)
 
::Hell the best picture of it is when it roars, and that is still terrible.--[[User:TheUltimate3|'''TheUltimate3''']] [[File:Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg|20px]][[User Talk:TheUltimate3| <sup>(talk)</sup>]] 19:03, November 20, 2012 (UTC)
 
:::I wish it had remained a silhouette. That thing looks like Hooleer from Bleach with a cave in its mouth. Don't even get me started on the eye e_e --[[User:Cerez365|Cerez<small>365</small><sup>™</sup>]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 19:15, November 20, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
Yeah, I'm not a fan of it's appearance myself, but given we can't dictate the will of Kishi, just gotta get on with it. --[[User:Hawkeye2701|Hawkeye2701]] ([[User talk:Hawkeye2701|talk]]) 19:19, November 20, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
:I think the latest chapter gave us enough good images. [[User:Derigar|Derigar]] ([[User talk:Derigar|talk]]) 19:36, November 20, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
The reason why the tentails is "awfully displayed is becaused it is fully formed due to not having the 8 tails and nine tails sealed in the gedo mazou before hand. --[[User:Naruto6paths|Naruto6paths]] ([[User talk:Naruto6paths|talk]]) 19:53, November 20, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
Okay, I never expected my one question to get this much response, but I want to add that I dont agree with the last post. I think the Ten-Tails appearance has been retconned, the two sihlouette used for this page don't exactly match how Kurama explained the Ten-Tails to Naruto. The two images were from times that Obito talked about the Ten-Tails, which were from a couple years ago. Kurama is more reliable to its appearance than Obito because Kurama is a part of the Ten-Tails. Also the two remaining biju regonise it as the Ten-Tails, I would expect them to say something if it looked different. Also the mural from chapter 606 depicted it with how it looks like now in chapter 610. I can expect that the higher ups and some others to not agree on this, but keep an open mind because we might have a new flashback in upcoming chapters depicting the complete Ten-Tails with all its details because Kishi has no reason to shade it all anymore.--[[Special:Contributions/67.142.164.25|67.142.164.25]] ([[User talk:67.142.164.25|talk]]) 09:31, November 21, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
This is naruto 6 paths speaking, the 10 tails from what you saw there is an incomplete ten-tails. You can say its like an incomplete sharingan it hasn't been completed to its potential. --[[Special:Contributions/90.145.61.214|90.145.61.214]] ([[User talk:90.145.61.214|talk]]) 14:10, November 21, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
But both the Eight-Tails and Nine-Tails both say that is the Ten-Tails. I find it hard to believe that they wouldn't say anything if it changed as much as this wiki says. But it doesn't change the fact that its appearance has changed a significantly from the silhouette from a couple years ago.--[[Special:Contributions/67.142.164.20|67.142.164.20]] ([[User talk:67.142.164.20|talk]]) 03:47, November 22, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
Maybe it can take on more forms, but I'm sure the eye is a retcon, unless it's an error in chapter 606--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 04:01, November 22, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
I agree with the eye being a retcon, also the spikey protrustions on its back.--[[Special:Contributions/67.142.164.20|67.142.164.20]] ([[User talk:67.142.164.20|talk]]) 04:13, November 22, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
== Plant-like Appearance ==
 
 
Ok, it's pretty obvious the Ten-Tails has a plant-like look. It's body is covered by veins, its tails look like closed buds (and in its complete form those ones looks like foliage) and it has branch-like spiky protrusions on its back (well, the Mazou also have them, but you get the idea) I think it's worthy to add that to the ''Appearance'' section. [[User:Adept-eX|Adept-eX]] ([[User talk:Adept-eX|talk]]) 02:05, November 21, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
It's kinda plantish, it's skin is wooden--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 02:36, November 21, 2012 (UTC)
 
:It's skin is what? I highly doubt that beast's body has the same construct as the statue. It looks like it has flesh. Also, I'd assume you're saying it looks plant-like simply because of the lines on its body, which I don't see.--[[User:Cerez365|Cerez<small>365</small><sup>™</sup>]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 07:21, November 21, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
Even those things connected to Obito and Madara are the same as from Hashi clone/Gedo statue so I guess it still has woodish/plantish texture--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 22:23, November 21, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
Didn't a ton of people guess the Gedo Mazo's statue was made of wood? I suggest holding off until it's texture is made clearly visible by the anime or a colored manga page. [[User:Skarrj|Skarrj]] ([[User talk:Skarrj|talk]]) 10:08, November 22, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
Looking at the way the tail is unfurling at the end of the latest chapter, this theory may officially have weight. --[[User:Hawkeye2701|Hawkeye2701]] ([[User talk:Hawkeye2701|talk]]) 20:12, December 5, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
== Connectors ==
 
 
Ok... So Madara and Tobi both physically connect with the [[Ten-Tails]], giving them the ability to control it. This ability to connect is mentioned on the [[Demonic Statue of the Outer Path]]'s page, though not here. [[User:Skarrj|Skarrj]] ([[User talk:Skarrj|talk]]) 10:12, November 22, 2012 (UTC)
 
:Because the aforementioned connection was with the living clone, not directly with the statue. We're all unclear what's going on there.--[[User:Cerez365|Cerez<small>365</small><sup>™</sup>]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 10:31, November 22, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
== Natural Energy ==
 
 
In the mangastream translation, naruto says its essentially a giant mass of natural energy. Can someone please translate to see if this is accurate? If so, it should be added to the abilities/trivia section. [[User:MangekyoSasuke|MangekyoSasuke]] ([[User talk:MangekyoSasuke|talk]]) 00:53, November 23, 2012 (UTC)
 
:Raws aren't available yet, at least not where I usually read them. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 02:05, November 23, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
== Current Appearance ==
 
 
I think the Ten-Tails still has a chance of maturing based on Madara saying controlling it will get more difficult. I understand that as its getting stronger and has a chance to mature more. The thing took one step closer to looking like its sihlouette but then two steps back because it grew weird horn things on its head, its missing a arm and is emaciated. As I type its current appearance at the time is being used to showcase its real appearance and would like it to be changed back to its old appearance.--[[Special:Contributions/67.142.164.26|67.142.164.26]] ([[User talk:67.142.164.26|talk]]) 07:29, December 12, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
It likely has multiple forms and no "true form" as it changes constantly. EDIT: it's said to be a force of nature, maybe it's some sort of adaptation--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 13:54, December 12, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
== eye retcon again ==
 
 
The article says that the Ten-Tails has 6 tomoe instead of 9 cause it's incomplete, completely ignoring the fact that it also had such in Madara's "flashback dimension" and it's present even after it's transformation. It's apparent that Kishi changed his mind about this one--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 14:13, December 12, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
bump--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 23:36, December 14, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
Still makes more sense, and in all of the actual flashback depictions, it had nine tomoe. The Ten-Tails in that genjutsu looked as faithful to the original as the murals of Matatabi and Gyūki look to them in the Island Turtle, which isn't that much, just enough for us to know what it was. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 00:04, December 15, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
We don't know either way, that's why I think the whole mention of "having 6 tomoe due to being incomplete" should be removed, and a trivia made instead with: "in it's initial appearance it had 9 tomoe words words words but since words words words it's portrayed with 6" so it's true both ways and everyone can make their own opinion of it--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 00:15, December 15, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
== Maturity ==
 
 
In chapter 612 on the last page in the last panel, there's no word about maturity or perfect stage. It says something about ''suitable/good time'' (頃合い), but I don't know what the よう means. :/ [[User:Seelentau|Seelentau 愛]]<sup>[[User Talk:Seelentau|議]]</sup> 19:16, December 12, 2012 (UTC)
 
:[http://tangorin.com/dict.php?dict=general&s=%E3%82%88%E3%81%86 Take your pick]. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 20:56, December 12, 2012 (UTC)
 
::I know, but I don't know which it could be, there are too many options :/ But I doubt the meaning of it would change the meaning of the whole sentence to something along maturity... [[User:Seelentau|Seelentau 愛]]<sup>[[User Talk:Seelentau|議]]</sup> 21:37, December 12, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
よう simply means ''it seems''. So there's no word about maturity or such, Madara/Obito just says that "the Jūbi seems to be just right". :) [[User:Seelentau|Seelentau 愛]]<sup>[[User Talk:Seelentau|議]]</sup> 04:53, December 30, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
== Incomplete Mature form ==
 
 
FYI, the Ten-Tails' mature form is still incomplete. I bet that it will be fully complete on maybe the final arc.
 
 
 
--[[User:Pipeliz265|Pipeliz265]] ([[User talk:Pipeliz265|talk]]) 21:13, December 12, 2012 (UTC)----
 
Pipeliz265
 
 
== How is its eye being used to target speculation? ==
 
 
We specifically see it on 613, page 6, shift its eye around and began targeting, trying to hit HQ. How else were we supposed to interpret that scene other than the very obvious?--[[User:SuperSaiyaMan|SuperSaiyaMan]] ([[User talk:SuperSaiyaMan|talk]]) 09:13, December 14, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
Unless it's blind, an eye can see lol--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 23:36, December 14, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
== Chapter 613 - The scale of the Juubi's latest Bijuudama ==
 
 
I think you're going to want to mention the scale of the bijuudamas this new Juubi form is producing.
 
 
If you look carefully at the double page where the first Bijuudama is fired you'll notice the five lakes from the first bijuudamas from the junchuuriki. Also you'll notice a long trail with the Juubi in it which I believe was created by the Hachibi and Kyuubi's combined bijuudama.
 
 
However the Bijuudama in the background is unreal in how large it is when you compare it to the old bijuudamas.
 
 
I'm not sure how you would but this'd be a really good thing to show in the abilities section of the Juubi's page as a comparison.
 
[[Special:Contributions/86.133.99.27|86.133.99.27]] ([[User talk:86.133.99.27|talk]]) 22:46, December 14, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
:The long trail was probably due to the immature form's Bijuudama beam...--[[User:JOA20|JOA20]] ([[User talk:JOA20|talk]]) 15:51, December 18, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
:Would't that be a ark? the idea that it's from Kurama's and Gyūki's combined Bijuudama makes more sense to me.([[Special:Contributions/2.99.224.76|2.99.224.76]] ([[User talk:2.99.224.76|talk]]) 14:35, February 15, 2013 (UTC))
 
 
== Mokuton/Wood Release ==
 
 
In chapter 614, it can be seen that Obito is using the Ten-Tails' body as a medium to throw the Wood Piercing Branches. I suggest we shouldn't put it like the beast can use Wood Release, but instead it can launch the techniques created by its controller.--[[User:JOA20|JOA20]] ([[User talk:JOA20|talk]]) 15:54, December 18, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
It should be listed as a user of the technique but having hit as a pure user of wood release would be complicated to explain. --[[User:Naruto6paths|Naruto6paths]] ([[User talk:Naruto6paths|talk]]) 16:49, December 18, 2012 (UTC)
 
:Ergo why it shouldn't be listed because it wasn't the one using it.--[[User:Cerez365|Cerez<small>365</small><sup>™</sup>]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 16:52, December 18, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
I don't think soo...usually chanelling chakra is done from a user to an ''object'', not a living being, and its usually just the chakra, not the entire technique...and we know that tailed beasts can use/have nature transformations. Besides Obito could have only been directing the beast to attack. Son Goku/Lava Release for one? So i do believe that it could use the Wood Release...it would also partially explain the origin of it and how it went to Hashirama. [[User:Darksusanoo|Darksusanoo]] ([[User talk:Darksusanoo|talk]]) 16:54, December 18, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
:Do note; until Naruto took control of the Nine-Tails, he was never listed as using the Tailed Beast Ball as someone else (the Nine-Tails) was in control of his body. It would not be beyond the realm of reason to believe the same is happening now.
 
:That being said, it is entirely possible the Ten-Tails could use Wood Release, but until the beast starts moving on it's own, I honestly can't say.--[[User:TheUltimate3|'''TheUltimate3''']] [[File:Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg|20px]][[User Talk:TheUltimate3| <sup>(talk)</sup>]] 17:15, December 18, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
::This is making the issue more complicated thann it should be. The Jūbi is the one that used the technique, and as such it can use Wood release. Until we get further explanation, we should list every single fact. [[User:Derigar|Derigar]] ([[User talk:Derigar|talk]]) 17:22, December 18, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
:::And I repeat, when Naruto used the Tailed Beast Ball during the Invasion of Pain, he wasn't listed as a user because, he didn't actually use it. Same deal here to be honest but discuss away.--[[User:TheUltimate3|'''TheUltimate3''']] [[File:Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg|20px]][[User Talk:TheUltimate3| <sup>(talk)</sup>]] 17:24, December 18, 2012 (UTC)
 
::::The difference is: Naruto is a jinchuriki...the nine-tails is sealed inside him in a way that Naruto can channel the beast's powers. With the Ten-Tails this is not the case, it isn't sealed into anyone it used it on his own...i think the problem is that he used the same technique as Obito. Plus it's true, were complicating the issue too much. The Ten-Tails used the technique, he can use it, then list him. Anything other than that.... that will be speculation. [[User:Darksusanoo|Darksusanoo]] ([[User talk:Darksusanoo|talk]]) 17:30, December 18, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
Anything other than that would be speculation? Alrighty, let's list Yahiko as a user of Shinra Tensei then. After all, his body performed the technique, even if he was just Nagato's little Rinnegan Puppet, right? The flaw in your argument here is that we're given a vague proposition. We have the Ten Tails launching a wood release technique. The problem is, its being controlled by Obito and only used a technique he has. Now I don't have a position on this, it's honestly up in the air for me to call, but let's not dissuade others opinions as speculation. It's fact that the Ten Tails performed the technique, but that's like saying just cause Gaara uses Shukaku''s sand its the beast's ability and not his. The Beast could be no more than facilitating this ability, not being an actual user. --[[User:Hawkeye2701|Hawkeye2701]] ([[User talk:Hawkeye2701|talk]]) 19:15, December 18, 2012 (UTC)
 
:And the flaws in your arguments are thus...first Yahiko was dead when he was made a Six Paths of Pain puppet. The modifications to him were done post-mortem. And the difference is neither Obito nor Madara are the beast's jinchuriki by which neither can use the beast's techniques and vice-versa. Gaara retained his ability to use sand, but he only gained it by being Shukaku's jinchuriki. This is like saying that Son Goku's Flower Fruit Mountain technique is not his own...it could have been something developed by Roshi, but again we don't know. If someone uses a technique, list them as a user and unless contradictory evidence appears, let it stay. [[User:Darksusanoo|Darksusanoo]] ([[User talk:Darksusanoo|talk]]) 20:11, December 18, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
So now i ask...when have ever seen a situation like this? A technique being channeled through another living being? What's the point? Why not use it himself? I also ask what's more speculative? That the beast can use Mokuton or that Obito pulled off a completely new concept? Besides Obito and Madara mentioned they were taking a back seat to use the beast's powers soo...[[User:Darksusanoo|Darksusanoo]] ([[User talk:Darksusanoo|talk]]) 23:15, December 18, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
Since Ten-Tails is flowrish/treeish, I say it's possible for it to be the source of Wood Release (along with Sharingan and Rinnegan) but that's just my mumbling :) On topic, I say we should add Ten-Tails as a user, because not adding it is the same logic as removing Tailed Beast Ball from it's infobox since it's being controlled and not using it by itself--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 23:18, December 18, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
Safer and most logical approach to me, for now, is to keep Obito as the technique's only user, and say he used it through the Ten-Tails. He even did a hand gesture and all, as if performing the motion of the technique. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 02:27, December 19, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
What about a collaborative technique "large fast spikes wood no jutsu, obito uchiha with ten-tails" or something?;)--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 02:52, December 19, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
"Sigh"...it was the Ten-Tails who used the technique...i don't remember chakra flow working through living beings and neither saw one technique being used through another being as well. [[User:Darksusanoo|Darksusanoo]] ([[User talk:Darksusanoo|talk]]) 03:01, December 19, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
That's why I'm saying we should treat it as been done by both of them to avoid speculation. Also I doubt Obito is THAT strong, he either used Ten-Tails' chakra (but he ain't a jinchuriky so how?) thus unlikely, channeled Wood Release through Ten-Tails (this still makes the Ten-Tails a user) or it was work of the monster alone with Obito just giving order, you decide--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 03:07, December 19, 2012 (UTC)
 
:The more direct and simple explanation is that Obito commanded the beast to use the technique, since that's pretty much what he's focused on...i doubt he'd waste his own chakra into a technique since both Uchiha are struggling a bit to control the juubi as it is so they are pretty much focused on that. [[User:Darksusanoo|Darksusanoo]] ([[User talk:Darksusanoo|talk]]) 03:11, December 19, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
:Two things
 
:1) People appear to be gleefully ignoring my point that if something isn't in control of it's actions, it doesn't get listed as using it. I will remind people again, Naruto didn't get Tailed Beast Ball added to his infobox, until he got Tailed Beast Mode and did it then. Tobi focusing a jutsu through the Ten-Tails is the same as the Nine-Tails focusing the Tailed Beast Ball through Naruto.
 
:2) Someone made the point to remove the Tailed Beast Ball from the Ten-Tails because Obito and Madara had made the demon do it. Unlike the above, the Tailed Beast Ball is literally the demon attack. Even if Madara and Obito never fired a shot, it would be listed because all tailed beasts have it.--[[User:TheUltimate3|'''TheUltimate3''']] [[File:Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg|20px]][[User Talk:TheUltimate3| <sup>(talk)</sup>]] 05:28, December 19, 2012 (UTC)
 
:: And you seem to forget the difference between Naruto and Madara/Tobi is that the first is a jinchuriki in other words the beast and it's powers are sealed and can be channeled because of it. The latter ones are just controling the monster. It's like the difference between driving a machine and becoming the machine itself. Another thing...yeah Obito's powerful, but to pull off a Wood Release of that scale given the difficulty to use this kekkei genkai it seems difficult at best when they are already struggling to keep the Ten-Tails under control seems off. [[User:Darksusanoo|Darksusanoo]] ([[User talk:Darksusanoo|talk]]) 19:38, December 19, 2012 (UTC)
 
::Since the ten tails is the maifestation of almost everything, it should be able to use every nature, even ying and yang release and everything else. [[Special:Contributions/94.135.247.44|94.135.247.44]] ([[User talk:94.135.247.44|talk]]) 19:41, December 19, 2012 (UTC)
 
: If chakra isn't able to be transfered into living beings then why was Tsunade and several others able to transfer chakra to other poeple (sarcasim)?[[Special:Contributions/71.71.58.231|71.71.58.231]] ([[User talk:71.71.58.231|talk]]) 00:25, December 20, 2012 (UTC) Yhwach
 
::One thing is using chakra to heal/replenish another person, the other is using another person as a medium for one's own technique which seems as a much more far-fetched concept than the Ten-Tails being able to use the Wood Release on his own. [[User:Darksusanoo|Darksusanoo]] ([[User talk:Darksusanoo|talk]]) 00:33, December 20, 2012 (UTC)
 
::: Chiyo used Naruto's chakra to help with her Reanimation Technique remember?[[Special:Contributions/71.71.58.231|71.71.58.231]] ([[User talk:71.71.58.231|talk]]) 00:40, December 20, 2012 (UTC) Yhwach
 
:::: Again same difference: Chakra flow vs technique medium. Chiyo used Naruto's chakra cuz she was empty, she didn't use Naruto as a medium for it, she was still the one using the technique. [[User:Darksusanoo|Darksusanoo]] ([[User talk:Darksusanoo|talk]]) 00:44, December 20, 2012 (UTC)
 
::::: True. But it doesn't mean that it's impossible.[[Special:Contributions/71.71.58.231|71.71.58.231]] ([[User talk:71.71.58.231|talk]]) 01:02, December 20, 2012 (UTC) Yhwach
 
 
It seems a bit difficult to accept that Obito could pull off something of that scale, since his Wood Release abilities aren't all that powerful nor is his control over the Ten-Tails perfect and also that the chakra flow concept is from a person to an object, not from a living being to another. [[Special:Contributions/2.80.178.114|2.80.178.114]] ([[User talk:2.80.178.114|talk]]) 23:33, December 19, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
== Chakra Arms? ==
 
 
Various articles refer to Ten-Tails' hand-like tails in its second form as "chakra arms", like those used by jinchūriki in Version 1/2. However, the arms are actually part of the Ten-Tails' physical anatomy, not formed from chakra. Unlike the tailed beasts, it actually possesses a true physical body, rather than being chakra given solid form. For consistency, should these articles not be changed to reflect this fact?--[[User:BeyondRed|BeyondRed]] ([[User talk:BeyondRed|talk]]) 23:15, December 20, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
:Yes, the term chakra arms are being used wrong in this case, they aren't arms made of chakra, they are simply the Ten-Tails' tails, that now are tipped with hands. Freaky little thing isn't it.--[[User:TheUltimate3|'''TheUltimate3''']] [[File:Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg|20px]][[User Talk:TheUltimate3| <sup>(talk)</sup>]] 23:17, December 20, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
Given how the tailed beasts are basically chakra constructs, the extra arms can be put under this banner. [[User:Darksusanoo|Darksusanoo]] ([[User talk:Darksusanoo|talk]]) 23:26, December 20, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
: No they can't. He is not using the chakra arms at all. The Ten-Tails is using its tails as hands, nothing more. Ultimate is right, it should be removed. ~ '''''[[User:Ten Tailed Fox|Ten Tailed Fox]]''''' [[File:Yamagakure Symbol.svg|14px|link=User talk:Ten Tailed Fox]] 03:01, December 21, 2012 (UTC)
 
::Chakra arms come in a variety of ways so the fact that the Ten-Tails uses the arm in a different manner does not invalidate that fact. [[User:Darksusanoo|Darksusanoo]] ([[User talk:Darksusanoo|talk]]) 03:37, December 21, 2012 (UTC)
 
:::Chakra arms have one universal trait though; ''they are made of pure chakra''. When Killer Bee uses the Eight-Tails' tentacle tails for stuff, he is not using chakra arms, he is using tails. The Ten-Tails using it's hand-tail monstrosities are not using chakra arms, but its freaky hand-tail monstrosities.--[[User:TheUltimate3|'''TheUltimate3''']] [[File:Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg|20px]][[User Talk:TheUltimate3| <sup>(talk)</sup>]] 04:03, December 21, 2012 (UTC)
 
::::And tailed beasts also have a universal trait: ''they are also made of pure chakra'', so in this case it may be that the Juubi is simply putting a spin onto a classic. I believe that tails or not, if they are extra arms, they are chakra arms.[[User:Darksusanoo|Darksusanoo]] ([[User talk:Darksusanoo|talk]]) 04:18, December 21, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
Except Ten-Tails isn't a Tailed Beast, it's a tailed beast. People should realize that, Tailed Beasts are Ten-Tail's chakra split into 9 and given physical form and soul/mind.--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 04:25, December 21, 2012 (UTC)
 
:Then by that standart none of the techniques that list him as a user should be there. [[User:Darksusanoo|Darksusanoo]] ([[User talk:Darksusanoo|talk]]) 04:34, December 21, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
You misunderstand... it's the origin of Tailed Beasts, but not one itself, there's just not a better classification yet. God/demon/monster/nature itself whatever. The point being that it's not animated chakra, it was a physical being, stayed a physical being after it's chakra has been split and still is. In short, it doesn't use chakra arms, those are it's body--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 04:40, December 21, 2012 (UTC)
 
:Since it's the origin, it has multiple tails, and how they keep repeating that all the tailed beast abilities are by-products of the Juubi's powers and that it can be sealed into a human to create a jinchuuriki, it's still a tailed beast. Just because something is the origin of a category, doesnt mean it isn't a ''part'' of said category. [[User:Darksusanoo|Darksusanoo]] ([[User talk:Darksusanoo|talk]]) 04:44, December 21, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
For the first, exactly, it's a "tailed beasts" because it has tails and being a monster and all. Orochimaru was absorbed by Sasuke and the latter could use his abilities, does that make Sasuke an ex-jinchuriky now? The series made it clear that things can be sealed into other things and even people--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 04:54, December 21, 2012 (UTC)
 
:The Sage of the Six Paths was the first jinchuriki, the Juubi is stated as a tailed beast, the first one. Madara's goal is to become a jinchuriki for the TT so i fail to see your point. [[User:Darksusanoo|Darksusanoo]] ([[User talk:Darksusanoo|talk]]) 04:58, December 21, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
Apparently "_" well the topic is about arms, so let's stick with arms--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 06:04, December 21, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
:Yes, stick to the topic at hand, which are the status of Chakra Arms. To respond to Darksusanoo, no. The Eight-Tails, well eight tails are all technically arms. Six of the Seven-Tails' tails are wings. Whatever strange form their tails end up taking, they are still tails.--[[User:TheUltimate3|'''TheUltimate3''']] [[File:Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg|20px]][[User Talk:TheUltimate3| <sup>(talk)</sup>]] 23:25, December 21, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
Maybe offtopic, but if I'm not mistaken, Killer B uses "chakra arms" that aren't really arms but horns in his cloak 1 [[Lariat]].
 
Maybe we should rename it "chakra limbs/appendages/manifestation" or something. But yeah, the Ten-Tails. No, not made of chakra thus not chakra arms. I vote for removal of such mentions in all instances--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 01:48, December 22, 2012 (UTC)
 
:Agreed. No matter how Darksusanoo rephrases it, the fact is that the Ten-Tails has used the [[Tailed Beast Ball]]. It used the shockwave right away. But it has ''not'', under any circumstances, used the [[Tailed Beast Chakra Arms]]. It simply used its physical tails (no matter how they are shaped) to attack. Period. It should be removed. ~ '''''[[User:Ten Tailed Fox|Ten Tailed Fox]]''''' [[File:Yamagakure Symbol.svg|14px|link=User talk:Ten Tailed Fox]] 05:44, December 25, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
== Demonic Statue and Ten-Tails abilities ==
 
 
Since the Statue and Ten-Tails are one and the same, i think that all of the abilities/attacks shown by the Statue, should also be stated in the Ten-Tails Infobox and abilities section. Even if what it used as the Statue was gained by outside means, it didn't lose then when it became complete as the Ten-Tails. Opinions are welcome and needed. [[User:Darksusanoo|Darksusanoo]] ([[User talk:Darksusanoo|talk]]) 22:08, February 22, 2013 (UTC)
 
 
:The Ten-Tails hasn't shown the ability to shoot chakra lasers or have shown a shockwave shout, so yes from what it looks like it did lose something. We can't say what the statue does the full Ten-Tails could do.--[[User:TheUltimate3|'''TheUltimate3''']] [[File:Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg|20px]][[User Talk:TheUltimate3| <sup>(talk)</sup>]] 22:12, February 22, 2013 (UTC)
 
::There are one and the same...if it were the other way around i would agree with you, but it's extremely implausible for the complete thing not being capable of doing the what i could do when it was incomplete...plus the whole shockwave looks more like it's equivalent the Tailed Beast Skill than anything else. [[User:Darksusanoo|Darksusanoo]] ([[User talk:Darksusanoo|talk]]) 22:17, February 22, 2013 (UTC)
 
 
Ha, this topic again, I love it. Well, humans lost their fur and tails ;D--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 22:51, February 22, 2013 (UTC)
 
:Well @Elve...that's reality, this is manga/anime...it's perferctly reasonable that what the beast could do in a de-powered state, he could also do in it near-full power state. [[User:Darksusanoo|Darksusanoo]] ([[User talk:Darksusanoo|talk]]) 23:28, February 27, 2013 (UTC)
 
 
Since they are the same entity, it should be merged, we don't list Naruto in Sage Mode and Kurama mode as 2 different characters--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 23:49, February 27, 2013 (UTC)
 
 
:The difference being, Naruto doesn't stop being Naruto when he powers up. The Ten-Tails stopped being the Ten-Tails when it died. It's body was then used to become the Demonic Statue. This has been discussed to death.--[[User:TheUltimate3|'''TheUltimate3''']] [[File:Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg|20px]][[User Talk:TheUltimate3| <sup>(talk)</sup>]] 00:21, February 28, 2013 (UTC)
 
 
It NEVER died, where do you get that from?--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 00:48, February 28, 2013 (UTC)
 
 
:Died, chakra removed, whatever. It for all extensive purposes died when it's chakra was removed. Anyway the only logical way to justify the two articles being merged would be that you must also justify why the other tailed beast aren't merged. They are after all parts of the Ten-Tails too.--[[User:TheUltimate3|'''TheUltimate3''']] [[File:Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg|20px]][[User Talk:TheUltimate3| <sup>(talk)</sup>]] 01:06, February 28, 2013 (UTC)
 
 
It never died, stop making things up, it stayed pretty much alive. TB are their own entities, just because their bodies were created from Jubi's chakra doesn't make them one with it.--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 14:26, February 28, 2013 (UTC)
 
 
:But following your logic, yeah it kinda does. The Demonic Statue by your logic is no different from the other Tailed Beasts, it is a different entity from the monster it came from in that it is a ''statue'', just like the Nine-Tails is different from the monster it came from in that it is a ''giant fox''. Unless you deliberately pick and choose if the Demonic Statue, being the empty body of the Ten-Tails given a new purpose, is different than the Tailed Beast, is the chakra of the Ten-Tails given new forms and a new purpose, then they cannot and should not be merged.--[[User:TheUltimate3|'''TheUltimate3''']] [[File:Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg|20px]][[User Talk:TheUltimate3| <sup>(talk)</sup>]] 15:33, February 28, 2013 (UTC)
 
 
The Statue is Ten-Tails stripped of most of it's chakra, it never died. TB are animated chakra, in other words, Ten-Tails never died nor ceased to be it's own entity, it just got weakened--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 15:42, February 28, 2013 (UTC)
 
 
:Then explain to me how we are in a Ten-Tails Revival Arc then?--[[User:TheUltimate3|'''TheUltimate3''']] [[File:Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg|20px]][[User Talk:TheUltimate3| <sup>(talk)</sup>]] 15:44, February 28, 2013 (UTC)
 
::I'll save you the trouble: Nobody has referred to the Ten-Tails as being dead, but they haven't said it was "alive" either. In fact, the mention that the Ten-Tails lost "most" of its chakra is something you just made up because when the Sage was said to be entering the end of his life, he was said to "divide the Ten-Tails' chakra into the nine Tailed Beasts and then put the body in the moon". It did not say "separated most of the chakra and hid the rest on the moon".--[[User:TheUltimate3|'''TheUltimate3''']] [[File:Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg|20px]][[User Talk:TheUltimate3| <sup>(talk)</sup>]] 15:48, February 28, 2013 (UTC)
 
 
Into it's "true" form and full power, the Statue looked alive enough to me, corpses do not move and make noises. Since Madara was sucking it's chakra to stay alive, obviously some of it stayed. Naruto also pulled Nine-Tails' chakra yet it still had enough to create the super giant TBB, notice, we are talking about the creation itself, it's said to be God of Narutoverse basically, you can't kill it. If it was killable, Sage would have done so, to save everyone troubles--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 15:52, February 28, 2013 (UTC)
 
 
:And he killed it about as well as he could; Divided the chakra into the Tailed Beasts and the body into the moon where it would eventually be brought back to earth as the Demonic Statue. And here we are right back to the point I was originally making, you cannot pick and decide that the Tailed Beasts keep their articles when they are just parts of the Ten-Tails and say Demonic Statue losses its article for being a part of the Ten-Tails. And because I know where you will go right after this, here is some simple mathematics.
 
:::Ten-Tailed Beast = (Shukaku chakra x Matatabi chakra x Isobu chakra x Son Goku chakra x Saiken chakra x Chomei chakra x Gyuki chakra x Kurama chakra) + Demonic Statue of the Outer Path
 
:You see that math? If not look over it again. And I was going to comment on corpses don't move but that would have been far to easy.--[[User:TheUltimate3|'''TheUltimate3''']] [[File:Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg|20px]][[User Talk:TheUltimate3| <sup>(talk)</sup>]] 15:59, February 28, 2013 (UTC)
 
 
Don't play dumb please, TB's CHAKRA is a part of Ten-Tails not their souls, they themselves are their own entities, separate characters. Chakra isn't a character, yet they are not just chakra but living things, at least two of them are at the moment.--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 16:14, February 28, 2013 (UTC)
 
 
==Image==
 
Why is a silhouette used as the infobox image when we have now actually seen the real Jūbi's appearance?--[[User:RexGodwin|RexGodwin]] ([[User talk:RexGodwin|talk]]) 21:41, March 30, 2013 (UTC)
 
:We've seen either poor representations of the silhouette in the anime, and in the manga, the final form has yet to be seen. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 21:43, March 30, 2013 (UTC)
 
 
Why not use either of the forms we've seen in the manga? certainly better than a god-awful sillhouette picture--[[User:RexGodwin|RexGodwin]] ([[User talk:RexGodwin|talk]]) 22:24, March 30, 2013 (UTC)
 
:Because they're not its final form. We'll get it either when it matures all the way, or when we get a flashback to the Sage's time. [[User:Omnibender|Omnibender]] - [[User talk:Omnibender|Talk]] - [[Special:Contributions/Omnibender|Contributions]] 22:33, March 30, 2013 (UTC)
 
 
[http://static.fjcdn.com/pictures/were+all+fucked.+sorry+bout+the+crooked+words_144402_3859868.jpg That's right]--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 23:34, March 30, 2013 (UTC)
 
 
== what the... ==
 
 
Affiliation Akatsuki? 0_o wut?!--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 19:24, April 23, 2013 (UTC)
 
 
:Think it has something to do with it being part of the Akatsuki war machine in the war. But technically it is wrong.--[[User:TheUltimate3|'''TheUltimate3''']] [[File:Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg|20px]][[User Talk:TheUltimate3| <sup>(talk)</sup>]] 19:48, April 23, 2013 (UTC)
 
 
I see Kurama is listed as being affiliated with Konoha too, why is that? Both are prisoners, not comrades--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 20:27, April 23, 2013 (UTC)
 
 
:The Nine-Tails is a weird one. One through Seven, none of those tailed beasts are aligned with any faction, unless you count them making peace with their jinchuriki during Naruto's talk with them. Bee and the Eight-Tails are literally partners of Kumo so if even on a technicality, The Eight-Tails is affiliated with Kumo. The Nine-Tails up until the Fourth War was just a pissed off fox sealed in a kids gut, but Naruto's "You're my ally from Konoha" comment and then the fox doing absolutely nothing to deny it and even became the pseudo-commander the Allied Shinobi squad fighting Tobi, he is too, on a sharp technicality, affiliated with Konoha.
 
 
:In short, Two through Seven, could be affiliated if they "allied" with their jinchuriki during their short time talking but its up in the air. One-Tail is missing from this because lawl.
 
: Eight-Tails is affiliated with Kumo due to its partnership with Killer Bee.
 
: Nine-Tails is affiliated with Konoha due to its partnership with Naruto Uzumaki.
 
: Ten-Tails is listed as affilated with Akatsuki because when Demonic Statue was affiliated with Akatsuki, but is technically a mindless disaster so it is just as likely affiliated with the stick floating in the river than any organization.--[[User:TheUltimate3|'''TheUltimate3''']] [[File:Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg|20px]][[User Talk:TheUltimate3| <sup>(talk)</sup>]] 20:35, April 23, 2013 (UTC)
 
 
Exactly :D that's why I remove TT, it has no friends T_T--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 21:59, April 23, 2013 (UTC)
 

Latest revision as of 07:01, August 20, 2015

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Infobox imageEdit

Why are we still using the fatass Bulbasaur form? We know its true form is the "Third form", as thats what was seen in the flashbacks of Hagoromo, when Madara recreated it in a complete state, and when Kaguya reverted to it after being hit by Chibaku Tensei. --RexGodwin (talk) 22:20, July 17, 2015 (UTC)

Bump.--RexGodwin (talk) 06:05, August 1, 2015 (UTC)

Agree with this, especially since the current picture screws up its trademark eye. Anyone else?--BeyondRed (talk) 22:53, August 15, 2015 (UTC)
We're using the "fatass Bulbasaur form" in the info box because we generally use an image depicting the first appearance of the character. --Sarada Uzumaki (talk) 23:00, August 15, 2015 (UTC)

Incorrect Background info Edit

Not really sure where to post this, since I've seen this on this page, Hagoromo, and Hamura's pages. So I'll just go ahead and post it here. "In the final battle between the Ten-Tails and Kaguya's sons, Hagoromo and Hamura, they managed to defeat the beast and sealed it within Hagoromo, making him the first jinchūriki. This act, along with many other great deeds throughout his lifetime, resulted in Hagoromo becoming revered as the "Sage of the Six Paths". However, knowing that his death would unleash the Ten-Tails back into the world to continue its rampage and reclaim the chakra he had spread among humanity, Hagoromo separated the monster's chakra from its body and used his Creation of All Things ability to create the nine tailed beasts. Hagoromo then used Chibaku Tensei to seal the Ten-Tails' husk in what would become the moon.[5][6]"

They sealed her with http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Six_Paths_%E2%80%94_Chibaku_Tensei, which is what created the Moon with the husk being used as it's core. Just like when Naruto and Sasuke used it a thousand years later to do the same exact thing. Hamura departed with the rest of the Otsutsuki Clan to the Moon after the Ten-Tails' husk was sealed into what became known as the Moon. With Hagoromo having Asura and Indra many years later, and we know what happens beyond that point. Hamura's page cites the fourth databook when it says this, and Hagoromo said that he had his sons afterwards himself.

When Hagoromo appears himself and talks about things, he never says anything about surviving the extraction of the Ten-Tails' chakra due to him having it's husk within him. As that wouldn't make sense, since it's husk is in the Moon which Hamura and the clan left to guard many years ago. Only Madara, Obito, and Kurama say that. We know Madara, Obito, and Nagato aren't reliable sources, because the tablet they read from was tampered with by Black Zetsu. While Kurama is more reliable, he was basically a newborn at the time and may have forgotten some things or Hagoromo didn't tell him everything. But based on the new version of the story, Hagoromo and Hamura sealed the Ten-Tails' body away into what became known as the Moon with Six Paths - Chibaku Tensei. While it's chakra was sealed into Hagoromo making him it's Jinchuriki, which he later extracted and created the nine Tailed Beast from, before scattering them across the world. Then he chose his son Asura as a successor to his Six Paths Senjutsu and ninshu over Indra, and then died.

So unless we're going to go based on the older version of his story told by sources less reliable than himself, which would mean there are now two bodies of the Ten-Tails' out there and Chibaku Tensei was used twice, and that Hamura would be on his deathbed too due to being the same age as his brother when he left to go to the Moon. When, in The Last, he was shown being on the Moon when young just like he was when he fought the Ten-Tails, and was stated to have gone to the Moon right after the fight with the Ten-Tails, not after his brother was about to die. Then there is only one Gedo Mazou, Chibaku Tensei was used once, and this is all going off of the new version of the story told by Hagoromo himself, The Last, the fourth databook, and common sense. So shouldn't all of the articles that keep retelling a combination of the old and new version of the story, which would mean there is two Gedo Mazous, which is clearly wrong, be changed to reflect the new version we were given at the end of the Manga, The Last, and by the fourth databook? --Legendary Super Saiya-Jin 4 (talk) 18:59, August 16, 2015 (UTC)

Well, this is a tough one. I don't think Kurama would say something like that so surely if it were untrue.--Elve [Mod] Talk Page|Contribs 22:06, August 17, 2015 (UTC)
Yeah, but based on what the new version of the story is. Kurama has to be wrong, because it's impossible for Hagoromo to have the Gedo Mazou in him if it's already in the Moon. Which is why Hamura and the rest of the clan left to guard it, based on what was said in the fourth databook and The Last. If Hagoromo had it in him, and used it to create the Moon. That means there would be two moons, which there clearly isn't. Kurama was just a wee little pup back then, so it's possible that he forgot or Hagoromo didn't tell him everything. It makes more sense for Kurama to be wrong than right, or else nothing makes any sense at all. Hagoromo and Hamura sealed the Gedo Mazou in the core of the Moon, which Hamura and the Otsutsuki Clan left to guard, with Hagoromo becoming the Jinchuriki via it's chakra. That is the only story that makes sense, cause if we go based on all the other versions, there is two Gedo Mazous, two Moons, and Hamura would be old and nearly dead when he went to the moon, when he was shown to be young. --Legendary Super Saiya-Jin 4 (talk) 18:35, August 18, 2015 (UTC)
New information > old information. Exceptions may happen, but that's the general rule. • Seelentau 愛 18:53, August 18, 2015 (UTC)
That's basically what I'm trying to say Seel, the new version of the story contradicts the older versions. So we should go based on what the new versions say over what the older versions say, mostly cause that's usually what happens, and if we try to combine both versions all we get is a huge illogical and contradictory mess. So don't you think the articles should be changed to reflect that? --Legendary Super Saiya-Jin 4 (talk) 19:03, August 18, 2015 (UTC)
It isn't the wiki's responsibility to decide which version of events is "true" or try to reconcile discrepancies. It reports the information that's been given, noting who said what if needed for clarity. ~SnapperTo 16:15, August 19, 2015 (UTC)
Yes, it isn't our job to correct the manga. But if old information gets updated with new information, we should abide to that, shouldn't we? • Seelentau 愛 17:03, August 19, 2015 (UTC)
You can give the new information preference, but you shouldn't exclude the old info or present the old info as if it were incorrect. ~SnapperTo 17:38, August 19, 2015 (UTC)
Alright, then I'm going to add Tobi as Madara again. • Seelentau 愛 17:47, August 19, 2015 (UTC)
Just be sure to pipe the link!
I actually don't think that's a fair comparison. The series has told us that Tobi was not really Madara. The series has not told us that Kurama's version of events was wrong. ~SnapperTo 17:53, August 19, 2015 (UTC)

Kurama was most certainly wrong/Kishi forgot/changed his mind so retcon.--Elve [Mod] Talk Page|Contribs 20:39, August 19, 2015 (UTC)

@Snapper The series tells us it's wrong because all new sources tell a different version of the story, and if we follow Kurama's version, then nothing makes sense and we got two Gedo Mazous, the moon being created twice, and Hamura being old and on his deathbed when he went to the Moon. When he went to it when young, not on his deathbed. Kurama's version literally contradicts the new version completely and does nothing more than create plotholes. I'm not saying that the page shouldn't mention Kurama's version somewhere, but it shouldn't be written in such a way that his version is correct and that the two versions go together, because they don't. --Legendary Super Saiya-Jin 4 (talk) 00:29, August 20, 2015 (UTC)

It doesn't need to present Kurama's version as being correct, it just shouldn't present Kurama's version as being wrong either. So, "According to Kurama..." and leave it that. Do not introduce doubt, do not try to explain away discrepancies. ~SnapperTo 02:25, August 20, 2015 (UTC)

Then perhaps it could be written like "According to Kurama..." and then "However, Hagoromo said..." or anything else that can be said that cites Hagoromo's words, The Last, and Jin no Sho? --Legendary Super Saiya-Jin 4 (talk) 05:06, August 20, 2015 (UTC)

What we know:

  • The Ten-Tails wasn't made moon and it made on his deathbed, legend wrong, rather, young Hagoromo and Hamura fought and defeated their mom, extracted her chakra and turned her into the Gedo Mazo and sealed inside the moon, where Hamura and folks went to guard her
  • The Tailed Beasts were created when Hagoromo was old though (flashback), he got inspired by Asura to do so
  • Thus he had kept Ten-Tails' chakra for many years
  • Since Hagoromo had no Gedo Mazo and he lived until after the creation of the Tailed Beasts, he was never a jinchuuriki, otherwise he would have died from the extraction, unless Kurama is right and he had Gedo Mazo to keep him alive for a while, which doesn't explain where the second Gedo Mazo went
  • There aren't 2 moons, so if there had been a second Gedo Mazo, it couldn't have been made into a moon then

--Elve [Mod] Talk Page|Contribs 07:01, August 20, 2015 (UTC)

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