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Revision as of 14:59, September 23, 2013 by TheUltimate3 (Talk | contribs)

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genders

As proven many times, the gender classification refers to mental and social identity rather than biological status. It may be annoying I keep bringing this up, but it's true. I would stop if it weren't for instances like Swirl Zetsu which we list as male, but why don't we then the Tailed Beasts? The would be point "genderless pronouns" is moot since we can tell clearly that Kurama is a he both mentally and biologically. I see no feminine personality traits or physical features--Elveonora (talk) 12:12, August 28, 2013 (UTC)

It would be wise to not go into this subject as it is just a can of worms waiting to explode.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol (talk) 12:21, August 28, 2013 (UTC)
Okay, but just curious, was Swirl Zetsu specifically referred to as "he" in the manga? On top of that, are we just going to ignore that the Five-Tails was given female voice in the anime?--Elveonora (talk) 12:45, August 28, 2013 (UTC)
No clue about Swirl Zetsu, but I assume considering Zetsu is listed as male all of his clones would as well. And yes we are going to ignore the Five-Tails female voice, because Naruto also has a female voice actress, and yeah male. Not uncommon in Japan. Or in America to be honest.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol (talk) 13:13, August 28, 2013 (UTC)
Except all female voice actress for male characters in Naruto do sound male, this one doesn't, perhaps intentionally. For Swirl Zetsu, I beg Seelentau for investigation if the Japanese dialogue somehow suggests a gender, because anatomically "he" is barely anything--Elveonora (talk) 13:42, August 28, 2013 (UTC)
I did mention "clone"...--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol (talk) 13:49, August 28, 2013 (UTC)

So? Anatomically, Swirl Zetsu is less of a man than other Zetsus, he doesn't even have visible internal or external organs. Again, gender doesn't refer to genetics. I meant if Seelentau could check all the Swirl Zetsu dialogue if there's anything suggesting masculinity or male pronouns.--Elveonora (talk) 14:00, August 28, 2013 (UTC)

I'm not going into the physics and metaphysics on gender identity. I'm just saying, in Swirl Zetsu's case because Zetsu has been identified as male, that as a clone, Swirl was also identified as such. I repeat I am not and will not get into the physics and metaphysics of gender identity.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol (talk) 14:04, August 28, 2013 (UTC)
I won't encourage this discussion either, since it's simply not up to us to decide if any character is male or female. Seelentau 愛 14:41, August 28, 2013 (UTC)
Sounds wise... for the forthcoming future, here I depart again with a tail in between my legs. Just please confirm or deny Swirl Zetsu being male or anything for that matter, so it goes in accordance with what you just wrote above instead of "us" deciding that he "must" be male since Zetsu is one. They are more of a siblings than clones. And since Orochimaru "wasn't" (was in fact) a female biologically in Part I. it should be even so it's not hypocritical.--Elveonora (talk) 14:53, August 28, 2013 (UTC)
There is no "he" or "she" in Japanese. Seelentau 愛 15:03, August 28, 2013 (UTC)
And unless the third databook entry has been wrong for the past 2 or 3 years, Zetsu was listed as male.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol (talk) 15:06, August 28, 2013 (UTC)
The thing is, he wasn't. Seelentau 愛 18:04, August 28, 2013 (UTC)
Ho hooo then.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol (talk) 18:09, August 28, 2013 (UTC)

Seriously? Now I feel offended and grossed.--Elveonora (talk) 22:02, August 28, 2013 (UTC)

Young Biju image

Why was a 1080p png image replaced by an image of inferior quality across the tailed beasts articles without discussion ? I'm posting this here rather than 9 times over all the tailed beasts articles. --Speysider Talk Page | My Image Uploads | Tabber Code | Channel 19:53, September 12, 2013 (UTC)

well feel free to replace those images with 1080 higher res versions.--RexGodwin (talk) 20:43, September 12, 2013 (UTC)

Manga images

Ok, seriously? Do we need these anymore? We have perfectly fine anime images of the exact same thing, without the awkward borders/backgrounds, plus Jinchuriki in the images...and its not like any of the Biju have any massive differences between the mediums, they look exactly the same..--RexGodwin (talk) 22:17, September 13, 2013 (UTC)

They're staying. End of story. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol 22:27, September 13, 2013 (UTC)

No need to act all high and mighty.. maybe actually say a reason?--RexGodwin (talk) 22:32, September 13, 2013 (UTC)

TTF, calm down, no need to be aggressive / hostile to a legitimate question...
What reason is there to keep both ? The anime depicted the tailed beasts without any differences so I have no idea why we've kept the manga image this long. --Speysider Talk Page | My Image Uploads | Tabber Code | Channel 22:58, September 13, 2013 (UTC)

Well i'd say the previous anime images of the lesser seen Bijū weren't as good as the artbook images, but now that we literally have the exact images in animated form, i don't see a reason.--RexGodwin (talk) 23:13, September 13, 2013 (UTC)

Wait, are you referring to the one on this page. 'Cuz that's the one I was talking about. The ones on the Bijū's individual pages, I'm not so sure about. Bring it up on their talk pages. Saves confusion. Or be more specific in the future. I thought you were referring to the one we have of them collectively in a group from the artbook on this page, which is staying until the anime provides us some better rendition. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol 23:49, September 13, 2013 (UTC)

Oh. Yeah i meant as their infobox ones. Agreed about on this page, the manga one is good since it shows all of them.--RexGodwin (talk) 23:56, September 13, 2013 (UTC)

Keep in mind the decision that is made here will most likely effect many more characters and should also have influence in the previous discussion about the Part I and Part II tabs. Carry on.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol (talk) 00:21, September 14, 2013 (UTC)

Since this will effect at least nine pages and to keep it all in one place I'll make my comment here rather than the individual pages. I agree with no longer needing the manga image in the infoboxs of each Tailed Beast. The anime has perfect representations of each now. Arrancar79 (talk) 17:39, September 18, 2013 (UTC)

The problem is that, although the anime has depicted them, they're technically not canon representations, because the song they were shown in (the tailed beast counting song) is an anime OVA and it would piss off a lot of users if we started swapping out images of tailed beasts that are "canon" with non-canon images from an OVA. Just to make people aware. However, I would have no objection to just removing the manga images for the tailed beasts and leaving the anime image there. --Speysider Talk Page | My Image Uploads | Tabber Code | Channel 18:27, September 18, 2013 (UTC)
Fortunately in this case it seems they were nearly exact representations of the depiction in the manga for what it's worth. Arrancar79 (talk) 20:58, September 18, 2013 (UTC)y
Point of Clarification: The mange image we use for all the Tailed Beast have not appeared in the mange either, they all came from a fanbook/artbook. That is just about the same as the omake song the images in question came from. Carry on.-TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol (talk) 21:44, September 18, 2013 (UTC)

It's better to keep those manga image for comparison since the anime and the manga images aren't from the original anime and the original manga. I think the animators who did the song took those artbook images for this work. That's all Shakhmootssign_zps2a261e68.png(Contact) 21:47, September 18, 2013 (UTC)

I contend that the omake image is as canon as any other episode because it's a true representation of their likeness, the quality is high and the fan/artbook images have their jinchūriki in the picture as well. If they stay then it seems like they should be second, I mean why not put the higher quality image first. Anime is the format used throughout the wiki with few exceptions like Hanzō and A, which I think should be reversed as well but I don't want to get into that here. Arrancar79 (talk) 22:31, September 18, 2013 (UTC)

yeah who cares what the image is from, its the perfect representation of the manga images, but in animated form and without awkward borders and other characters.--RexGodwin (talk) 22:52, September 18, 2013 (UTC)

Well no one has responded so im gonna go ahead and remove the manga images.--RexGodwin (talk) 13:47, September 23, 2013 (UTC)

As you were the one to start it, nor have I seen a agreement reached, you are not in a position to decide the discussion is closed.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol (talk) 14:25, September 23, 2013 (UTC)
Now that that's been taken care of, how about we do actually come to a conclusion, because I would like this, and the rest of the "Anime/Manga" images to reach a ending.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol (talk) 14:28, September 23, 2013 (UTC)
I don't see a need to come to a conclusion. There's no need to take out the manga image at all. The previous depiction of the tailed beast weren't inaccurate, it's just that we wanted both versions of the image in the infoboxes. The same goes for the current Kage (except A). If you prefer the anime one, simply click on the tab.--Cerez365Hyūga Symbol(talk) 14:34, September 23, 2013 (UTC)
And I've been trying (hard) to point out the potential problems with having some articles having two images for anime/manga, others having two images for Part I and II, then others having a single image, then others having images of forms.
As the self appointed Consistency Admin Guy Person(tm) that just screams a problem. And I've been trying to have that discussion for months and nobody seems to want to talk about it.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol (talk) 14:54, September 23, 2013 (UTC)
And if memory serves me correctly, I got into an argument with ShounenSuki about the previous pictures of the tailed beasts and the reason they ended up with two images was because such things like color was off (Eight-Tails), slime looked off (Six-Tails), ect.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol (talk) 14:59, September 23, 2013 (UTC)

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