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Talk:Super Mini-Tailed Beast Ball

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an error on Kishi\s part

Shouldn't this be called a "super mini-tailed beast rasengan" ???--Elveonora (talk) 13:30, July 25, 2012 (UTC)

Nope. 尾獣玉 is Tailed Beast Ball. If it was Super Mini-Tailed Beast Rasengan, it would have been 超ミニ尾獣螺旋丸. And I base this on completely nothing.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol (talk) 13:37, July 25, 2012 (UTC)
He's right though lol. The kanji definitely says tailed beast ball.--Cerez365Hyūga Symbol(talk) 13:38, July 25, 2012 (UTC)

Personally I think that page should be merged with Tailed Beast Ball. Naruto has only referred to it as that once. Any other time its been called Tailed Beast Ball, see chapter 554.--Deva 27 13:39, July 25, 2012 (UTC)

But it has kanji and stuff. And given how radical Kishimoto's been with the whole naming of Naruto's techniques, shouldn't it stand on its own o.O? --Cerez365Hyūga Symbol(talk) 13:43, July 25, 2012 (UTC)

@Ultimate, I know it's not a translation mistake, but Kishi named it wrong, because since Naruto wasn't transformed into Kurama or something, isn't that a Tailed Beast Rasengan instead? And I'm not for a merger ... Tailed Beasts Rasengan IS STILL a Rasengan, while the ball is a Tailed Beast Skill ... that would mean that Rasengan and the ball are one and the same technique--Elveonora (talk) 13:47, July 25, 2012 (UTC)

We can't know whether or not it's a mistake until the tankobon or something comes out. While I've rationalised the use of the tailed beast ball in my head, we can't really go against what's been given to us. I really doubt that Kishimoto would have Naruto use the Tailed Beast Rasengan so unceremoniously either way.--Cerez365Hyūga Symbol(talk) 13:51, July 25, 2012 (UTC)

Tailed Beast Rasengan = Rasengan made with the white negative and black positive chakras of tailed beast. Tailed Beast Ball is basically a projectile version of the same thing ... but the former is still a Rasengan technique, while the latter a tailed beast skill. There's nothing ceremonial about the usage of it, it appears he had learned how to make one a while back (did it to push through a barrier) so either Kishi changed his mind or it's an oversight.... maybe a trivia or something, why I brought this is because are we gonna state in either of the articles that he did the former or latter?--Elveonora (talk) 13:57, July 25, 2012 (UTC)

Note that the Tailed Beast Ball can be fired while still in a ball form. Naruto was able to break the 32 Level Barrier by pushing Bee's Tailed Beast Ball the rest of the way.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol (talk) 14:10, July 25, 2012 (UTC)

An error on Kishi's part. Wow. Seriously? I'm pretty sure Kishi wouldn't forget the name of his own technique. Not to mention that this is the second time he's refered to the tailed beast rasengan as the tailed beast ball. Also, from the first time he used it, it was known that the tailed beast ball and the rasengan are one and the same, the only difference being rotation, which is only used for stabilization in human form, and only adds additional effects in techniques like planetary rasengan. Naruto also makes it like he would a rasengan. So it seems obvious Kishi intends the two techniques to be interchangable. Does this make things inconvenient for the wiki? Yeah, sure. Does the wiki have the right to disclaim the author? No, we do not. I vote for merge. MangekyoSasuke (talk) 22:42, July 25, 2012 (UTC)

Some notes.
1) Kishimoto has forgotten things. Believe it or not, he's not Jesus. His mistakes tend to work themselves out in the tankabon or however it's spelled.
2) The Rasengan was based designed after the Tailed Beast Ball, they are in no way the same technique. In fact I can't even imagine how you possibly get that wrong unless you tried.
3) Naruto does a lot with shadow clones. Remember he has never actually learned how to manipulate chakra perfectly.
4) Not our place to assume what Kishimoto planned.
5) Merge what?--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol (talk) 22:51, July 25, 2012 (UTC)

I think he mean a merge of Tailed Beast Ball/Rasengan into 1 article... but that would make Rasengan a parent technique to Tailed Beast Rasengan, but Rasengan is delivered from the Tailed Beast Ball, thus a paradox 0_o--Elveonora (talk) 23:51, July 25, 2012 (UTC)

Not to mention they are two entirely different things. The Tailed Beast Ball isn't even a jutsu.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol (talk) 00:22, July 26, 2012 (UTC)
... This is all a moot point. Given that it wasn't called Rasengan, wasn't created like Rasengan(remember, Naruto can use one of his chakra arms to form a Rasengan in this mode, he doesn't need a clone. He still had to use one for this technique, since it's higher-level), and, in fact, looks absolutely nothing like a Rasengan, what exactly are we arguing about here? Edit: Forgot to sign. My bad. Skarn22 (talk) 01:18, July 26, 2012 (UTC)
No he didn't. The clone was specifically said to be used to help him make indirect attacks against Tobi. The rasengan was said to need two sets of hands, regardless of whether or not they were chakra arms or clone arms. And what do you mean, not like a rasengan? The tailed beast ball, looks like the tailed beast rasengan, looks like this newly named jutsu that is the exact same as the tailed beast rasengan, and if you can't see that, I have to ask the question, have you really been reading this manga? Also, chakra arms and shadow clones should be removed as parent techniques. The shadow clone technique isn't a parent to naruto's rasengan, and chakra arms were only used to make it easier to hit the opponent. And what exactly makes the tailed beast ball not a ninjutsu? 'Tailed beast skill' is a label made by this wiki, and it does not mean tailed beasts can't perform ninjutsu. One of shukaku's techniques is confirmed to be ninjutsu. And the tailed beast ball follows the properties of ninjutsu, so I dont see the point of mking the argument that its not a jutsu. Its true that the rasengan is derived from the tailed beast ball, and it proves my point. The shape manipulation properties of them both are nearly the same, so the only primary difference is the quality of the chakra used. If the rasengan is used with tailed beast chakra, it becomes its parent technique, on a smaller scale, and usable in human form. I don't see why its such a difficult concept. MangekyoSasuke (talk) 04:04, July 26, 2012 (UTC)
I apologize for the confusion. Let me explain myself for a moment.
1) Looking back, I think you are correct about the clone bit. It looks like he formed another one without it.
2) When I said it looked nothing like a Rasengan, I meant the original. It does look kind of like the manga version of the biju Rasengan, but the anime makes it more clear in my opinion.
3) The Rasengan was 'inspired' by the biju dama in that the main idea behind both techniques is the super-condensation of chakra. Ninjas cannot forcibly condense chakra the way a biju can. This is why Minato invented his own method of arriving at a similar power. So while they do similar things, the method behind the two techniques is completely different. Specifically, the biju dama does not spiral. Neither does the chou-mini biju dama.
4) I'm pretty sure Naruto has been using his own chakra for Rasengans this whole time. It's clear by their appearance(they're not black). In other words, he can use regular Rasengans in chakra mode. The "biju Rasengan" is something he has not yet succeeded in creating. I'd imagine that it would essentially incorporate the use of both 'methods' of condensing chakra at once, to create a jutsu that is stronger than either of them alone.
5) As far as Tailed beast skills go, I'm not sure. Ninjutsus are generally considered 'human skills', if you get what I mean. Yes, there is some crossing that line on both sides, but that is the general idea. That's not just an issue with this particular article by any means. I would say if we classified this as a ninjutsu, we would have to do the same with biju dama, and basically every other tailed beast skill.Skarn22 (talk) 03:31, July 27, 2012 (UTC)

Edit: whoops, thought shadow clone was a parent. My bad. MangekyoSasuke (talk) 04:06, July 26, 2012 (UTC) Simple.

1) As I said, technically, a Tailed Beast Ball isn't a jutsu because it's the raw manipulation of white and black chakra of the tailed beasts. Shukaku did use a jutsu, it was a Wind Release. Regardless I say technically and I'm certain my beliefs aren't reflected in the articles if they feel free to remove them.
2) Here's the major difference in the Rasengan and the Tailed Beast Ball. The Rasengan primarily causes damage by grinding the spiraling ball of chakra into the target. The Tailed Beast Ball explodes, violently.
3) The difficult concept is that you are arguing that the two techniques are the same. They are not. A human cannot make a tailed beast ball. Minato saw the properties of the Tailed Beast Ball and developed the Rasengan around it. Naruto, because of his connection with the Nine-Tails skirts hard on the line between human and has access to the chakra needed to make a Tailed Beast Ball.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol (talk) 11:08, July 26, 2012 (UTC)

We will see if it's fixed in an updated version. The issue is that using a "mini tailed beast ball" sounds like transforming into Kurama and shooting a projectile, while before a close-range variation of this was called a tailed beast rasengan. It creates confusion and issue with parent/sibling/delivered technique and stuff--Elveonora (talk) 15:44, July 26, 2012 (UTC)

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