Wikia

Narutopedia

Changes: Talk:Summoning: Impure World Reincarnation/Archive 2

Edit this page

Back to page

(Cerez why delete topic without explaining why?)
m (Reverted edits by 82.39.201.72 (talk | block) to last version by Cerez365)
 
Line 508: Line 508:
   
 
If you are referring to the First and Second having entirely white eyes in the manga, then Kabuto's summons did as well, they were just hidden by shadows. You could see that Deidara's eyes were white when he was taking Kabuto to the Island Turtle.--[[User:BeyondRed|BeyondRed]] ([[User talk:BeyondRed|talk]]) 02:49, July 14, 2012 (UTC)
 
If you are referring to the First and Second having entirely white eyes in the manga, then Kabuto's summons did as well, they were just hidden by shadows. You could see that Deidara's eyes were white when he was taking Kabuto to the Island Turtle.--[[User:BeyondRed|BeyondRed]] ([[User talk:BeyondRed|talk]]) 02:49, July 14, 2012 (UTC)
 
== Resurrected in the exact state they died in? ==
 
If edo tensei resurrects the dead in the exact state they died in wouldn't that mean for example Itachi would be resurrected in the state when he fought sasuke near blind and in bad physical condition? or sasori he was resurrected as a human didn't he die a puppet? unless all resurrected by kabuto are special like madara, they were resurrected when they were at there best. --[[Special:Contributions/82.39.201.72|82.39.201.72]] ([[User talk:82.39.201.72|talk]]) 18:03, October 12, 2012 (UTC)
 

Latest revision as of 19:23, October 12, 2012

Icon-Archive
This page is an archive. Please do not edit this archive, instead try editing the page this archive originated from.
The Narutopedia reserves the right to remove any question that could be answered by reading the article.

Second Mizukage Reason

Why Kabuto revived the Second Mizukage instead of Third? Yagura is the Fourth, Mei is the Fifth . But Kabuto said he revived the predecessors of the current Kage. I'm confused :S. Could he have been revived by other reasons? Leodix (Talk | Contributions) 05:00, March 1, 2011 (UTC)

The Second Mizukage is still a predecessor of the Fifth Mizukage. It's also down to whose DNA Kabuto acquire it's possible that he couldn't get any for the Third for whatever reason. --Cerez☺ (talk) 05:11, March 1, 2011 (UTC)
Why is the Second Mizukage the predecessor of the Fifth? The Third, as far as I know, wasn't mentioned yet. It may have a logical explanation why the Third isn't summoned, which may/may not be explained as the manga progresses since any guess would border to speculation. Darkerratum (talk) 05:17, March 1, 2011 (UTC)
The Fourth was Yagura and Kabuto summoning him. Why Kabuto didn't use Yagura instead of Second? I do not see much logic. Leodix (Talk | Contributions) 05:23, March 1, 2011 (UTC)

The best explanation I've come up with without speculation: Kabuto cannot find very old dead guy's (girl's?) DNA. ~ Fmakck©TalkContributions ~ 05:26, March 1, 2011 (UTC)

^ And I'm talking the 3d by the way. ~ Fmakck©TalkContributions ~ 05:28, March 1, 2011 (UTC)

@Leodix, Yagura is a special case, since he has a category for both jinchuuriki and kages. Since Yagura is in both, he was categorized as a jinchuuriki and his predecessor was revived for the Mizukage slot. It should have been the Third Mizukage, not the Second, unless there's a reason behind such. Many possibilities occur when this is put into question. @Fmakck Second Mizukage and the Second Tsuchikage are far older than the Third in my POV, since the Second passed the torch to the Third if we talk about succession, and yet the Second has been revived. We should wait for further developments to answer this I guess.Darkerratum (talk) 05:35, March 1, 2011 (UTC)

If I remember correctly, the 3rd Mizukage is Tobi. From the encounter he had with Kisame a while back, Tobi revealed himself to Kisame, and the fellow Akatsuki comrade said something along the lines of, "So it was you all along, Mizukage-sama." So the order of Mizukages goes as follows: "No-Brows" is Nidaime, "Tobi" is Sandaime, Yagura is Yondaime, and Mei is Godaime. If Tobi isn't Sandaime, then that just leaves him as Shodaime - making him the ruler of another country at around the same time that Hashirama and Madara were around. It wouldn't make any sense.--Mizzcocoa214 (talk) 20:12, October 16, 2011 (UTC)

Tobi was controlling Yagura, thus why Kisame called Tobi Mizukage. Jacce | Talk | Contributions 20:15, October 16, 2011 (UTC)

Status of the Edo Tenseis

We should list the current status of the Edo Tenseis. Check the Akatsuki page for how it's done. For Shin and Sasori, they are Freed. For Haku, Zabuza, Ginkaku, and Kinkaku, they are Sealed. For Deidara, he is Captured. For the "6th coffin", it is Inactive. For all others, they are all Active.

(talk) 17:12, March 2, 2011 (UTC)

Have you read the page? This has been suggested already, and it's not worth it. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 02:14, March 3, 2011 (UTC)

I agree on the above , we should have the summoned status , it's generally a good idea for imformation--Futon-Kunai

I don't agree on the above - it seems pointless. ~ Fmakck©TalkContributions ~ 12:04, March 18, 2011 (UTC)

I'm with Fma-kun and Omni-senpai.--NinjaSheik 20:55, March 18, 2011 (UTC)

Its still a genuine idea , who actually created this wiki in the first place , maybe they could decide , or a vote maybe , its just a good idea to have--Futon-Kunai

I've said it before and I'll say it again: It's not really useful, not really needed, can change often, not worth the required editing to update their status every time it changes. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:36, March 18, 2011 (UTC)


I don't see how their status changes frequently. Readers can instantly know who is active, sealed, or freed if we simply add a section. Asuma is sealed in the current chapter. From the progression of this manga, do you really expect him to get unsealed ever again? (talk) 15:42, April 6, 2011 (UTC)

Because it would be really difficult to unwrap him...
I, personally, am leaning towards implementing this. It will of course become pointless once everyone is "inactive", but it seems as though that won't be for a while. ~SnapperTo 21:46, April 6, 2011 (UTC)
Might I point out that this article is about the technique and not about what happens to the victims of the technique? The status of the Edo Tensei summons is irrelevant to the technique itself and thus to the article. In fact, I already found the reasons for their summoning to be rather irrelevant. —ShounenSuki (talk | contribs | translations) 22:23, April 6, 2011 (UTC)


what happens to them after they are summoned actually do matter because they are summoned as a result of this technique. If you disagree, then please tell me why you have to list out the names of each ET anyways, it's not like each of them matter to the technique itself as you said since there is no difference in the technique for summon each of them. (talk) 18:04, April 7, 2011 (UTC)
The Edo Tensei zombies are a direct result of this technique. The reason they were summoned is secondary. What happened to them afterwards is completely irrelevant. Imagine us listing for each and every animal summon exactly why they were summoned and what happened to them afterwards. It's ridiculous and cumbersome. —ShounenSuki (talk | contribs | translations) 22:52, April 7, 2011 (UTC)

You also forgot about the Salamander King being sealed —This unsigned comment was made by 132.3.29.68 (talkcontribs) .

There's no evidence it was sealed after Mifune escaped through its head. There's no evidence that it's even a resurrected minion like the others. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 22:31, April 12, 2011 (UTC)

world Resurrection

When a person uses this technique the people they bring back to life,are they conscious like do they know what they're doing.Also are they alive again forever? —This unsigned comment was made by Lil rob (talkcontribs) .

Hmmm.. if only there was an article of some sort that has information on this technique.. Please read the actual article before asking questions that can be found in it. Also, sign your post with ~~~~. ~ Fmakck© (Images | contribs) 17:18, April 10, 2011 (UTC)

2 out of 5

kabuto tells orochimaru that he did well against the 3rd hokage, saying he even summoned 2 out of 5 shadows or something. i guess 2 is the 1st and the 2nd hokages. And Minato is the 3rd. i know minato could not be summoned, because of the death god. so i guess who was the other to kages. ( kage means shadow ). —This unsigned comment was made by 24.113.204.10 (talkcontribs) .

I would assume he means two of the five Hokage. However, I'm not sure what chapter/page you're referring to. ~SnapperTo 00:42, May 19, 2011 (UTC)
I couldn't find it and I just went through ¾ of the manga. If you can, please provide a reference. Though I think it would've been mentioned more by now if it were factual.--Cerez365 Hyūga Symbol 01:56, May 19, 2011 (UTC)

he must mean the return of Itachi 2. When Itachi faces Kakashi, just a few pages before that battle starts. —This unsigned comment was made by 97.126.102.85 (talkcontribs) .

Unlimited Chakra

Do those revived have an unlimited amount of chakra? Also, would techniques harming the body such as multi shadow clone technique or susanoo bring damage to the revived?—This unsigned comment was made by 216.6.232.235 (talkcontribs) .

We don't know. Also, we don't know and we don't know.--Cerez365 Hyūga Symbol 12:17, July 4, 2011 (UTC)

No. I doubt it. When Muu summoned Madara he said he didn't have much chakra left. 21:03, March 1, 2012 (UTC)

Muu was unable to use his Jinton after he split. Because of his low chakra levels, that is. So, NO unlimited chakra (= fact) and also no damage (= not a fact). The reason I think no damage, however, is that they will recuperate anyway, so the damage gets nullified anyway. Derigar (talk) 14:24, April 17, 2012 (UTC)

He said his power was halved. Power is not only in relation to chakra and the two aren't synonymous.--Cerez365Hyūga Symbol(talk) 14:54, April 17, 2012 (UTC)


From what I have seen there are 4 main schools of thought on ET zombies chakra: They have an unlimited chakra pool; They have chakra that regenerates in the same way their bodies do; They have no outside influences and use/regenerate chakra like anyone else; They receive chakra from the ET caster and/or the body of the sacrifice.

In my opinion the only one that has been disproven is the first one, and that is because of Muu. I wouldn't say that he disproves the second scenario, because sealing half of someone away should basically decrease the size of their available chakra pool by half, so even with quick regenerating chakra it would never reach large enough to be able to cast the jutsu. Not saying it is necessarily that way, but it is possible. Almightywoody (talk) 16:23, April 17, 2012 (UTC)

Ow, sorry Cerez, I must have misread :( But still, it DOES require chakra to use Dust Release, does it not? :3 I still think the chakra are definitely not infinite. But I think this it's best if we'd stop speculating. :p Derigar (talk) 21:06, April 17, 2012 (UTC)

Pointlessness of the Impure World

It would seem that another weakness of this technique has been exposed, or should at least be noted. The Third Raikage when addressing his fellow revived Kage, states that he has complete faith that the shinobi of the villages have surpassed them. Kakashi also says something similar to Kakuzu right before he dies. It should be mentioned that although the technique does have a near unlimited power in calling back the dead, the current generation of the naruto universe seems to have more power than the last, making the technique it own downfall —This unsigned comment was made by 124.176.143.13 (talkcontribs) .

1. Sign your posts. 2. The fact that Mu said the new generation have surpassed them have nothing to with the technique. SusanooUnleashed (talk) 10:33, July 7, 2011 (UTC)

Well, I guess that is actually a point of the story - Naruto is all about the new generation surpassing the old one. I don't think it should be listed as a weakness of the technique itself, because technically it can be used to revive the younger ninjas, like Deidara who was a student of Ōnoki. --kiadony 10:38, July 7, 2011 (UTC)

What he is implying is that back when the technique was first used, there was no way to stop it. Now if you look around since the fight between the Third and Orochi, there has been many, many ways developed and thought of to stop the use in it's tracks. But yes, also it is about the next gen passing the last, but has absolutely nothing to do a "weakness" in this technique. As Kabuto stated, there is no drawbacks. But in saying that, there could and they're yet to be seen. SusanooUnleashed (talk) 10:48, July 7, 2011 (UTC)

There is one thing which bothers me. When Naruto hit Toroi with his Rasengan, Kabuto noticed it, more than any previous attack used on other zombies. Somehow, it seems that Rasengan has some sort of effect on Impure World Ressurection. Or that Kabuto noticed something was meant to be something different, the time will tells. but if it doesnt, there is maybe one weakness of this technique, in Rasengan, but that is a mere speculation. VolteMetalic (talk) 23:17, July 8, 2011 (UTC)

I think that Kabuto was just surprised he was taken out so fast. Either that, or his awareness of the resurrected shinobi surroundings enabled him to detect Naruto's Nine-Tails chakra. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:41, July 8, 2011 (UTC)


Prehaps Kabuto was surprised to see Narutos new form and felt that with his new power, he'd be a threat to taking out the resurrected. As he noticed it more then others, because it was Naruto who attacked. SusanooUnleashed (talk) 06:01, July 9, 2011 (UTC)

Haku's eyes

The articel says that "The summoned all have black sclera and white irides", but shouldnt it be noted somewhere that Haku's eyes actually has grey clera and black irides up until the point where Kabutu takes complete control(See chapter 521 and 522). Don't know if he is the only one, but he is the only one where i have actually noticed it. --Cosmikaze (talk) 23:00, July 8, 2011 (UTC)

Since nobody had anything to say, i went ahead and added it. Feel free to invert my changes if they somehow is inapropiate or wrong, but if you do, please tell me why. --Cosmikaze (talk) 22:31, July 15, 2011 (UTC)
From what I've seen they all keep their eye colours until Kabuto takes full control of them, not just Haku.--Cerez365 Hyūga Symbol 22:49, July 15, 2011 (UTC)
While you might be right, try and take a look at http://www.mangareader.net/naruto/521/12 and http://www.mangareader.net/naruto/525/2 just two examples, and maybe you are able to find some proof for your theory, but in these pictures all the summoned has black(grey)sclera and white irides, witht he sole exception af haku (okay in the second page i posted hakus eyes does acutally look white, but maybe they are just closed for some reason or something, i dont know, but in all other apperences by him until the point where his personality is erased his eyes are clearly not white (see http://www.mangareader.net/naruto/521/13 as an example). im not saying he is the only one, just that he is the only one i have noticed (maybe besides dojutsu users) who doesnt have black and white eyes --Cosmikaze (talk) 23:08, July 15, 2011 (UTC)
Eye colors vary, check the voloume 55 cover.--Deva 27 23:11, July 15, 2011 (UTC)
Fair enough, thanks for the color image.--Cosmikaze (talk) 23:15, July 15, 2011 (UTC)
this as well normally they're depicted with the lines in their sclera and when Kabuto takes over, it goes pitch black.--Cerez365 Hyūga Symbol 23:15, July 15, 2011 (UTC)
Ye i noticed the lines/grey> pitch black thing, but since that was the same for everyone that was besides the point i was trying to make :) but seeing those color pages have me convinced, it just seemed strange to me that haku was different, but seeing the color pages helped a lot :)--Cosmikaze (talk) 23:21, July 15, 2011 (UTC)

No risk to the user.

Does this technique take any chakra? 122.254.121.34 (talk) 10:37, July 14, 2011 (UTC)(random)

Yes.--Cerez365 Hyūga Symbol 11:11, July 14, 2011 (UTC)

If it does it still poses a risk to the user if the user has insufficient chakra —This unsigned comment was made by 122.254.121.34 (talkcontribs) .

He means no repercussions after using his chakra for the resurrection part, controlling the and whatever comes after that probably takes very little chakra and has no ill effects on the user after extended use.--Cerez365 Hyūga Symbol 11:25, July 14, 2011 (UTC)

Tobirama Senju

Kabuto is listed as a manga user of this technique. The case of Tobirama is almost the same because it has been mentioned only in the manga that he created (and certainly used) the Edo Tensei. Consequently, next to Tobirama Senju somebody has to add "manga only". Unless im wrong because i havent watched the last anime chapters. BTW, im latinoamerican so maybe i have some writting mistakes XD.201.230.54.171 (talk) 15:11, July 18, 2011 (UTC)

That's not how it works, he's never been and will probably never be seen using the technique. In this instance he is simply listed as a user of the technique with no manga/ anime implications.--Cerez365 Hyūga Symbol 15:22, July 18, 2011 (UTC)

afterlife ?

Haku and Zabuza died ... after got revived, they commented that this look nothing like afterlife. This mean that it seemed like a seconds from their death to their revival. But ... arent the souls meant to be in other world after death ? How is it they dont remember them being dead in heaven/hell or wherever ? Maybe because other world/afterlife dont exist ? So where are the souls then ? ...--Elveonora (talk) 23:14, October 8, 2011 (UTC)

Maybe the Pure Land isn't somewhere you exists consciously. Maybe they don't have the memories from the other world in this world. —ShounenSuki (talk | contribs | translations) 23:38, October 8, 2011 (UTC)

I see ... Kishi is such a good writer O_O That trick with Madara got me.--Elveonora (talk) 15:22, October 12, 2011 (UTC)

Preparatory Ritual

Doesn't this create a plot hole? As is mentioned in the trivia, Orochimaru's attempting to bind Minato to his sacrifice body would have failed in the prep. ritual, Minato wouldn't have "caked over" the sacrifice (not sure of a better term to describe the demonstration with Fu and Torune), nothing should have happened at all, so why bother trying to summon it later if there was nothing to summon? On top of this, why would a coffin have come out at all based on that? Another thing worth mentioning is that it had the '4' on it like the 4th was actually in there (though the 4 was only shown in the anime so presumably can't be taken as 100% canon). 69.171.160.195 (talk) 00:01, October 18, 2011 (UTC)

The coffin never emerges in the manga, though Orochimaru notes that the summon failed. Who says the soul can't be bound to the sacrifice when the coffin is summoned?--Deva 27 00:10, October 18, 2011 (UTC)
Kabuto's explanation of why the 4th couldn't be summoned because his soul was unreachable was very clear. His demonstration following the explanation also shows exactly what you have to do beforehand. Based on what he says, the 4th wouldn't have taken over the sacrifice because his soul couldn't be anchored to the impure world in any way/shape/form, ergo it wouldn't/couldn't be bound to the sacrifice at any point. 69.171.160.195 (talk) 00:16, October 18, 2011 (UTC)
It's only a plot-hole if the soul can't indeed be bound at the same time the coffin is brought up. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 00:23, October 18, 2011 (UTC)
Actually, Deva was right about the coffin not appearing at all in the manga, so the coffin isn't even really the issue, the question lies in why Orochimaru attempted to summon it at all during his fight with the third (and made note of its failure, meaning he thought it would work) when in the preparatory ritual Minato's soul would not have overtaken the sacrifice or even responded to the summon (during the prep. ritual), since, as Kabuto said, was entirely unreachable to the technique. Either way this still creates a plot hole. 69.171.160.195 (talk) 00:33, October 18, 2011 (UTC)
The only possible explanation, the only possible loop-hole for this not to be a plot-hole, is that it's possible to tie the soul to the sacrifice and make the summon all at once. If the first fails, so does the second. It's the only explanation which doesn't create a plot-hole. Maybe Kabuto showed things a bit more clearly so Tobi (and the readers) could understand how the technique works. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 00:38, October 18, 2011 (UTC)
Kabuto said, "If the soul does not reside in the pure world, they cannot be resurrected". I would say that means there are no ifs, ands, or buts about it, so I think, based on everything we know, it is indeed a plot hole. I've seen many arguments/discussions about this very topic across the internet, and until Kishimoto retcons/explains it in the manga, or naruto ends, we can't really say either way. Again though, based on the facts we've been given, it is indeed a plot-hole for the time being. Jetdeagon (talk) 00:50, October 18, 2011 (UTC)
And none of that invalidates the notion that it might be possible to sequentially bind the soul and summon it, which would resolve the situation without creating a plot hole. It's just a matter of finding loop-holes and exploiting them. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 00:56, October 18, 2011 (UTC)
Yes, but in the manga itself it has been stated that souls not in the pure world cannot be resurrected. It came out of the users' mouth, and immediately afterward we saw exactly how the ritual of preparation plays out. As I said, until any loophole is brought up or exploited in the manga, it can't be taken as fact to explain away a plot hole. Jetdeagon (talk) 01:02, October 18, 2011 (UTC)

Maybe Orochimaru has used a different Preparatory Ritual. Seal is formed around the sacrifice, and the wished to summon one's blood/dna is applied to the seal thus changing the body of the sacrifice into the summoned one's. Whos to say they are alive right away ? Maybe Kabuto just bond the soul with a body right away and Orochimaru not. So Orochimaru has most likely prepared Minato's body in the coffin but not yet blew a life into him. So when Orochimaru was about to summon Minato, the coffin failed because the soul was not available.--Elveonora (talk) 17:16, October 18, 2011 (UTC)

A simple explanation without a plot hole could be that he tried to revive Minato and failed due to him being sealed and resorted to using the Fourth Kazekage. His soul was never sealed so there's no reason Kabuto couldn't have used him as he did. This is all speculation but it may help some of you sleep at night :). Arrancar79 (talk) 21:39, October 28, 2011 (UTC)

That doesn't make since at all since the coffin failed period and since Kabuto was able to summon the 4th Kaze clearly his soul was available for the binding. Maybe guess as stated above that Oro tried the prep and summon at the same time.Umishiru (talk) 05:42, October 30, 2011 (UTC)

Blackmail Coffin

So was the Blackmail coffin used by Kabuto to force Tobi to take the deal with the alliance, Madara after all? Was it a different shinobi? I never got the chance to read the manga chapters so please dont make me feel stupid. So yea, if it was Madara in the coffin than who is the supposed madara leading akatsuki? —This unsigned comment was made by 71.239.64.143 (talkcontribs) .

Yes, it was Madara, we have no idea who Tobi is. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 22:46, October 18, 2011 (UTC)

Who is...

...this? Seelentau 愛 22:04, October 25, 2011 (UTC)

Dunno. He/She's there by accident. They were removed in the tankōbon version.--Cerez365Hyūga Symbol 22:07, October 25, 2011 (UTC)
ah, I see. Worth mentioned it, maybe? Anyway, thanks :) Seelentau 愛 22:14, October 25, 2011 (UTC)
It's supposed to be in the Manga/Anime differences article and somewhere else I think. Omnibender brought it up already and I think we followed through with it and all.--Cerez365Hyūga Symbol 22:18, October 25, 2011 (UTC)
mhkay, I don't want to discuss about such small fry, so I'll leave it as it is^^ Seelentau 愛 22:19, October 25, 2011 (UTC)

Why Not Display Each Shinobi's Status?

Moments ago, I was going to suggest adding a "Status" column to the list of revived ninja (e.g. Purified, Sealed, Incapacitated, Active); however as I was going to copy the source code to show off a couple of examples, I saw the hidden message "Do NOT add a status column". Why can't we show their statuses? SuperSaiyanSonic (talk) 21:10, October 28, 2011 (UTC)

#Status of the Edo Tenseis--Cerez365Hyūga Symbol 21:14, October 28, 2011 (UTC)

edo

is the "edo" in this technique related in any way to the old name for tokyo, also "edo", or is it different? --Caseather (talk) 21:08, November 20, 2011 (UTC)

Read /Archive 1#Name. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 21:31, November 20, 2011 (UTC)

Imperfections

The Fox King has pulled up that in part I the resurrected lose their imperfections after being affected by the talisman but in part II, they still have them. Should we add somewhere that in part II they still have the imperfections, even after being completely controlled by Kabuto(like how Mu was)? Joshbl56 02:54, December 5, 2011 (UTC)

Control

I have a question, does Kabuto control the Edo Tensei's himself or does he simply 'program' them to move as 'instructed'? 119.154.17.44 (talk) 16:04, December 12, 2011 (UTC)

He can control them himself, as seen with the Raikage, Mu, and Nagato.--Deva 27 16:06, December 12, 2011 (UTC)
When their eyes go completely black he's controlling them himself otherwise they're 'instructed'.--Cerez365Hyūga Symbol 16:07, December 12, 2011 (UTC)

Another question, are their senses connected to his own? 119.154.17.44 (talk) 16:11, December 12, 2011 (UTC)

Senses? Everything we know is in the article friend. Though as far as senses go I'm assuming he can hear and see what they do, from his reactions/conversations and so on.--Cerez365Hyūga Symbol 16:16, December 12, 2011 (UTC)

Who's controlling the Jinchuriki, Kabuto or Madara? 119.154.17.44 (talk) 16:21, December 12, 2011 (UTC)

They are most likely still under Kabuto's Edo Tensei, but Tobi took control of them using the chakra rods. --Elveonora (talk) 16:25, December 12, 2011 (UTC)

Okay I'm done, thanks for answering my answers all of you 119.154.17.44 (talk) 16:26, December 12, 2011 (UTC)

Should we add that Chakra receivers can shift control then? Also I can't help but notice the control seems to end when a jinchuriki fully transformed. --1337 B33FC4K3 (talk) 05:02, January 11, 2012 (UTC)

I don't think the control ends once the Jinchuriki have transformed. It may just be harder to control as there is more power to control. SusanooUnleashed (talk) 05:46, January 11, 2012 (UTC)

Somewhat related, but since Tobi's six paths of pain were defeated without ET being cancelled, and without the zombies being sealed, or reaching enlightenment (the only confirmed methods to deal with ET zombies), doesn't it seem likely that they weren't ET zombies at this point even though Kabuto referenced them earlier?Almightywoody (talk) 05:19, April 17, 2012 (UTC)

Did you read some chapters in the future or what? Jins were never shown after their bijuus were extracted from them, except Roshi. He was unconscious but not destroyed or whatever you mean.Faust-RSI (talk) 05:43, April 17, 2012 (UTC)

That was kind of the point. How many unconscious ET zombies have you seen? I don't think you can knock them out, they never stop coming (unless you seal half their soul away like Muu). It was probably just his corpse (after all Akatsuki are the ones who killed the Jinchurikis, with the possible exception of Yagura, but Tobi was in control of him shortly before he should have died), or it should have disintegrated. Since it didn't it seems like it was the same technique as Nagato's 6 paths of Pain that revived them, instead of ET.Almightywoody (talk) 05:50, April 17, 2012 (UTC)
So you're suggesting there is another set of Edo-jins running around? Or didn't you see they were regenerating like all edos? Or that they have a souls like all edos? And who said edos can't be knocked out? Please provide manga page saying that or stop this pointless discussion. The BIJUU were extracted from them. That would kill normal human. Of course it has a strong effect even on edo-bodies.Faust-RSI (talk) 05:56, April 17, 2012 (UTC)
Your question is interesting. Maybe there's a hidden trick in the manga, but give the page references. —IndxcvNovelist (Talk to Me|My Wiki) 06:02, April 17, 2012 (UTC)

Samehada O.o?

Upon awakening they retain their personality, memories, and all abilities they had in life, including kekkei genkai, kekkei tōta and summoning contracts, but does not seem to be able to recreate unique weapons such as Samehada, though normal weapons like kunai and shuriken do seem to reform.

Does anyone know what that statement's supposed to mean, because I'm drawing a blank.--Cerez365Hyūga Symbol 20:35, March 1, 2012 (UTC)

I think it's meant to mean that a resurrected shinobi gains back all their abilities and such they had before dying, but any unique blades like the Seven Ninja Swords do not get resurrected. That's my interpretation of it. --speysider (talk) 20:43, March 1, 2012 (UTC)
That was my interpretation of the statement as well but, while I believe the section about unique weapons should be retained yet exchanged with "such as the blades of the Seven Ninja Swordsmen of the Mist", I don't think the latter part is necessary as I believe there is nothing to indicate that tools such as kunai are obtained through the technique rather than normal means. Blackstar1 (talk) 20:53, March 1, 2012 (UTC)

That change should suffice but I still don't understand part. Kunai and shuriken reform O.o That's saying that the edo tensei bounds the souls of kunai and shuriken past to metal souls when Kabuto could have easily equipped them with these things before sending them out? I can only think of Toroi who had a scroll and Kinkaku who spat out the treasures (even then that's just summoning) As such I propose that the latter bit be removed and the first bit be edited to what BlackStar1 suggested but more specific so no "special tools" just state the incident with the swordsmen and not being able to get their swords.--Cerez365Hyūga Symbol 21:00, March 1, 2012 (UTC)

I think that was added because there might have been an example of an edo tensei using tools after they were reformed. For example, clothes reform. I don't think that means they have souls, but just that edo tensei covers that, maybe the image of when they died. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:57, March 1, 2012 (UTC)

Cancel Summoning: Impure World Resurrection?

If the technique can be canceled wouldn't Kabuto just cancel Itachi? I don't understand why people in this manga thinks it can be canceled? —This unsigned comment was made by 202.169.221.215 (talkcontribs) .

He has most likely lied to Sasuke again ... if he told him that to stop the technique he has to die again, I don't think he would allow that. --Elveonora (talk) 01:05, March 22, 2012 (UTC)

It is my theory that to release the technique, one releases the entire technique. So if Kabuto did away with Itachi he would undo all the other Edos, including Madara. In that respect it is standard for most techniques for the user to be able to disengage it, why wouldn't they be able to? And with a technique that doesn't even cancel after its user's demise, deactivation would seemingly be the only method of cancelling the technique. Especially if Tobirama was the first user and there aren't any of the Edos he created walking around Konoha now, there has to be a way to cancel it. --Hawkeye2701 (talk) 22:25, April 8, 2012 (UTC)

It would be too much of a delay for Kabuto to cancel the Edo zombies because then he probably would have to look for more sacrifices before he can use Edo Tensei again. 112.202.79.25 (talk) 14:52, April 12, 2012 (UTC)Iamanonymous

Sealed status

simply stating whether or not they are sealed is indeed redudant, they will all eventually be sealed/released. however i do think it should be mentioned HOW and WHO sealed them, example being 1st hokage sealed/released by 3rd Hokage with: Reaper death seal, etc, or Shin sealed/released by Sai with: Released.

something along those lines.

Shadowfox337 (talk) 02:29, March 23, 2012 (UTC)

Sacrifices

From where does Kabuto get so many sacrifices to use this technique ?--Jaison Clinton Castelino 10:21, March 28, 2012 (UTC)

Possible from Takigakure, where he tested his abilities before heading for Tobi, leaving a trail of corpses behind. Jacce | Talk | Contributions 10:25, March 28, 2012 (UTC)

it's not like the sacrifice needs any special properties, other than being alive. could've used anyone, and i'm sure there were plenty of orochimaru's experiments/underlings available for sacrifice too. Shadowfox337 (talk) 20:15, March 28, 2012 (UTC)

Anime Addition

It seems we may see some new characters however atm its unlear whether pakura is revived as she was not included in the shinobi noted for her skill like Zabuza, Haku and Gari. But regards to the new faces whats going to happen to them will they be kept in waiting for further showcasing ? --Zenryoku90 (talk) 14:41, March 29, 2012 (UTC)

Pakura was in the manga, so she's not a new addition. although it would be interesting if a few Filler faces showed up in the revival.

Shadowfox337 (talk) 21:28, March 29, 2012 (UTC)

mistake

did they make a mistake in naruto 256? Kabuto said the Gokage, or five kage, and he only showed 3, and none of the hokage can be revived because of the dead demon consuming seal.--76.92.243.71 (talk) 23:38, March 29, 2012 (UTC)

He was referring to the 5 current Kage. Skitts (talk) 23:48, March 29, 2012 (UTC)

If the resurrected can feel no pain, then why is it said that Itachi closed his eyes and covered his eyes in pain when Kabuto used his dragon technique?Undominanthybrid (talk) 19:00, April 14, 2012 (UTC)

It's more like they don't feel pain that is the result of body harm or mutilation. We've seen the Seven Swordsmen reform from nothing, and it didn't seem like being disintegrated caused them any discomfort. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 19:59, April 14, 2012 (UTC)

Edo Tensei control to stop pre-existing jutsu?

"Have the summoner end the technique. As they are unlikely to do this voluntarily, using a genjutsu to trick them into cancelling the technique is ideal. The sequence of hand seals for cancelling the technique is Dog → Horse → Tiger and saying "release" (解, kai). If the summoner dies before the technique is deactivated, then this method is impossible. " - from article section "Countering"

If the summoner does die, shouldn't that mean that he will be susceptible to Edo Tensei from another person too (unless he/she was sealed)? If the summoner dies, can't someone use Edo Tensei to summon him/her, then use that special talisman to control his will and let him/her end the technique?

Maybe the bold sentence should be changed to " If the summoner is sealed before the technique is deactivated, then this method is impossible. " 112.202.93.154 (talk) 16:28, March 30, 2012 (UTC)Iamanonymous

There has never been more than 1 living person that knows Edo Tensei, or at least that has been said to. And how would we know? That sentence however is correct. If the summoner dies, Edo Tensei cannot be cancelled. Skitts (talk) 16:23, March 30, 2012 (UTC)

Good point, but what if someone does learn Edo Tensei soon? Like, someone might end up killing Kabuto (without releasing his jutsu) and then someone might learn Edo Tensei technique, then force Kabuto to end his Edo Tensei. After all, the summoned retains his/her abilities, learned jutsu, chakra, etc., so it might be possible that Edo Tensei control can also be retained. 112.202.93.154 (talk) 16:34, March 30, 2012 (UTC)Iamanonymous

People cannot commandeer others' techniques as far as I know. Learning Edo Tensei doesn't mean you could end Kabuto's. You'd have to find ways to seal the resurrected permanently.--Cerez365Hyūga Symbol 18:50, March 30, 2012 (UTC)

What if an Edo Tensei user kills Kabuto, resurrects him, and then overrides his will with the special seal to force Kabuto to end his technique? It's not really commandeering jutsu, but controlling Kabuto actually.112.202.79.25 (talk) 19:56, April 8, 2012 (UTC)Iamanonymous

I assume you mean a resurrected shinobi kills Kabuto and brings him back with Edo Tensei as well? It would make Kabuto end his technique, but now Kabuto would be stuck as an Edo, because whoever brought him would be gone. He'd just be there with his will overridden. It all comes down to whether if he no command from the original caster, he'd be able to exercise his own will. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 20:19, April 8, 2012 (UTC)

Sorry Omnibender, I meant what if a mortal Edo Tensei user kills Kabuto, summons him as an Edo zombie, and then makes him cancel the technique? It would be another way to end a specific person's Edo Tensei. I think this might be useful enough to put in the list of methods to end Edo Tensei, or even in the trivia, at least....—This unsigned comment was made by 112.202.79.25 (talkcontribs) .

That can't be added. It's speculation.--Cerez365Hyūga Symbol(talk) 19:46, April 12, 2012 (UTC)


It does seem like if the ET caster was resurrected in some fashion (I don't see it mattering what the fashion is - ET, Rinne Tensei, Granny Chio's jutsu) they should still be able to dispel it, but the likelihood of one of those jutsus being available seems a little too slim to make specifically 'sealing' to be what makes it impossible. If I was to propose an edit to the section I would suggest a gravitation towards a more general term. Something along the lines of 'Of course if the summoner is unreachable, then this method is not workable.'.(not that I actually am, mind you) (Almightywoody (talk) 16:48, April 17, 2012 (UTC)

You see, the thing about all this discussion is simply that this scenario is not a weakness of the technique by itself, but simply external facts. It's like saying something like this: "this technique makes the user effectively immortal, unless they are caught without it activated".--Kind-Hearted-One (talk) 21:16, April 17, 2012 (UTC)

Unknown shinobi

in episode 256 many resurrected shinobies is unknow howare--—This unsigned comment was made by Chghjik (talkcontribs) .

Just like you, we haven't the foggiest. They're anime-only edo tensei's most likely to thicken the plot.--Cerez365Hyūga Symbol 11:37, April 1, 2012 (UTC)

Image

the previous image was better than this. This doesnot show the exact jutsu Salil dabholkar (talk) 06:48, April 4, 2012 (UTC)

It shows the restoration of the resurrected ninja, and it correctly portrays the darkened sclera, which wasn't the case with the previous image. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:53, April 4, 2012 (UTC)

Sensing location

Before I make a change lemme see if I got this right. When Itachi said he could feel where the source of the technique was coming from (577, p. 16) but then goes on to say that it was actually Nagato doing the sensory stuff (580 p. 7) Does that mean that Itachi wasn't able to tell where it was coming from and that Nagato had actually told him? I'm a bit confused on this point.--Cerez365Hyūga Symbol(talk) 20:37, April 8, 2012 (UTC)

Before he said it was Nagato, I understood it as him seeing the chakra that was controlling him with the Sharingan, but it seems that Nagato used sensing skills to determine the point of origin of said chakra. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 21:05, April 8, 2012 (UTC)
Ah I had forgotten about the Sharingan in all of this. Then it'd be more appropriate to note that resurrected shinobi with sensory abilities can determine the source of the chakra instead of saying they all can?--Cerez365Hyūga Symbol(talk) 21:12, April 8, 2012 (UTC)

Are we sure Nagato is a sensor ? Rinnegan can see chakra after all. --Elveonora (talk) 21:58, April 8, 2012 (UTC)

If seeing chakra was all it took to track where Kabuto was, Itachi wouldn't have credited Nagato, as the Sharingan alone can already see chakra. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 22:11, April 8, 2012 (UTC)

But Itachi could sense Kabuto as well, right ? --Elveonora (talk) 22:26, April 8, 2012 (UTC)

As far as we know, Itachi isn't and has never been a sensor. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 22:30, April 8, 2012 (UTC)
What was said in ch.577 was incorrectly translated. In Japanese, Itachi never specifically said it was him who could sense Kabuto's chakra.--Deva 27 22:35, April 8, 2012 (UTC)

Also, the Rinnegan can see barriers, I don't think it's ever seen chakra. There's a few things that Nagato has done that would classify him as a sensor other than the Itachi thing.--Cerez365Hyūga Symbol(talk) 23:01, April 8, 2012 (UTC)

He sort of saw Tsunade and a few ANBU gathering chakra to their feet to counteract Shinra Tensei by sticking themselves to the ground. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:11, April 8, 2012 (UTC)
Well then... I shall be taking my leave =\ --Cerez365Hyūga Symbol(talk) 23:32, April 8, 2012 (UTC)

Name change suggestion

@Seelentau: I chose 'reincarnation' over 'resurrection', because nothing is being resurrected here. There is nothing that was once dead and is now brought back to life. However, you could interpret what happens as Kabuto 'reincarnating' a bit of himself into the lifeless object. In fact, to keep things consistent, I would suggest changing the translation of Edo Tensei to be in line with this technique. - ShounenSuki.

Any opinions on this? Seelentau 愛 16:31, April 15, 2012 (UTC)
IMO, Resurrection sounds better than Reincarnation for this technique. With this technique, your only bringing them back from the dead to fight for you. Reincarnation implies that the user is returning their soul to the Pure World (similar to One's Own Life Reincarnation. I vote for keeping it the way it is. --Speysider (Talk Page) 16:34, April 15, 2012 (UTC)

I think 'resurrection' works better here.--Deva 27 18:12, April 15, 2012 (UTC)

Either way goes for me. However, I would like to point that that ShounenSuki has translated this as 'reincarnation' in the title of chapter The Secret of the Impure World Reincarnation. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 19:19, April 15, 2012 (UTC)
Now the name listed doesn't match what the technique actually does. We're not reincarnating anyone (aka bringing them back from the dead at the cost of the caster's life): we're temporarily resurrecting them and when they are defeated, they return to the dead. I don't like the name of this article because it now confuses me to what the technique does. --Speysider (Talk Page) 17:44, April 16, 2012 (UTC)

Though it's been changed already ( '-') If it's for the sake of uniformity, I have no issue with the change.--Cerez365Hyūga Symbol(talk) 17:47, April 16, 2012 (UTC)

Oh! I do think we should have a bot help out with this though. It seems like a mountain of work.--Cerez365Hyūga Symbol(talk) 17:50, April 16, 2012 (UTC)
Yes a bot should. Unfortunately for all the power I have here, the ability to use a bot continues to elude me...--TheUltimate3 ~Keeper of Lore~ 17:52, April 16, 2012 (UTC)
Good luck convincing anyone that we're reincarnating people here. If it was a reincarnation, then the caster would die. If we take Orochimaru's Living Corpse Reincarnation technique, then that is a reincarnation because if he does not perform it then Orochimaru dies. In this Summoning the caster does not die in any form, because he is not transferring every ounce of chakra and life force to the resurrected person. This is not a reincarnation technique and it should not be named or listed as one. I believe this should be put back to Resurrection, regardless of trying to keep with uniformity. --Speysider (Talk Page) 18:55, April 16, 2012 (UTC)

Actually what is done with this technique is more reincarnation than anything else. I was just thinking about it and if these people were to be resurrected, then they would have had to have their own bodies that they did in life. However, that's not the case, they have a body of a sacrifice (usually used in reincarnations) moulded out of dirt and ash to fit their appearance. Having their soul bound to something else. Now I'm not sure about Budhism but in Hinduism, that's exactly what reincarnation is- only with animals. Going from that I believe we shouldn't even call them "revived" any more.--Cerez365Hyūga Symbol(talk) 19:02, April 16, 2012 (UTC)

The problem with reincarnation is that the caster must die. Even if your providing a dead sacrifice, said sacrifice will have no chakra. The caster would have to give all their chakra to reincarnate someone, like with Chiyo's One's Own Life Reincarnation and Orochimaru's Living Corpse Reincarnation. In the case of Chiyo, she gives out all her life force and chakra, then dies once the person has been reincarnated. In Orochimaru's case, he must be in a body to survive by transferring his entire soul and chakra into someone else. If he has no body or the process is negated by an Uchiha then he dies. If this Summoning was reincarnating people, Tobirama would not have developed it if it required giving out all the person's chakra and life force and Orochimaru / Kabuto would not have been able to use it. There is also the fact that a reincarnated person is restored instantly to their original form. A person revived with this jutsu shows decay and requires a talisman to be implanted into their heads to return them to their original forms. Therefore I believe this page should just be left as Summoning: Impure World Resurrection because the people revived with this technique are only being resurrected to serve as a puppet for the caster: they are not being brought back into the Pure World in any form. --Speysider (Talk Page) 19:09, April 16, 2012 (UTC)


Reincarnation - 1. Rebirth of the soul in another body. 2. A reappearance or revitalization in another form; a new embodiment

Resurrection - 1. The act of rising from the dead or returning to life. 2. The state of one who has returned to life.

Theses are word for word definitions of the two terms, not in regards to any technique, just the literal word. Now regardless of what you define as a resurrection technique or a reincarnation technique, by definition either one of these could work and it really comes down to how you define "life". I personally prefer resurrection and it fits if your definition of life is returning from the pure world, but reincarnation covers it with rebirth of the soul in another body, which is errily close to this technique, but its second definition is actually way off as its not in another form, its the same form plastered over a sacrifice. At the same time I don't believe the term "Life" is quite applicable to those brought back with this technique, so resurrection all together sounds off. That is just my view. Over all, here are the definitions, do with them as you will, but Speysider, stop trying to classify techniques by their name, reincarnation as a principle does not include the sacrifice of one life for another, its just the term we used here cause we're trying to translate from an entirely different language. --Hawkeye2701 (talk) 19:14, April 16, 2012 (UTC)

It's called a discussion, I'm simply giving my views to why it should be called Resurrection, so being rude like that is honestly a waste of your time. --Speysider (Talk Page) 19:18, April 16, 2012 (UTC)

I can judge for myself how to use my time. I think giving those definitions was worth it as your view is only brought into it in the last sentence or two. But as usual I must remind myself that it isn't a forum, so I apologise if I appeared rude, but I may as well point out that you blatantly and seemingly sarcastically said good luck trying to get this accepted because you believed your view to be correct. If you intend to be taken seriously I suggest you work on your own presentation as well. --Hawkeye2701 (talk) 19:36, April 16, 2012 (UTC)

It's called sarcasm, I wasn't being serious and I was giving my view in a big explanation as to why I think it should be named the previous way. Nowhere did I say my view was correct. Am I not allowed to have a <insert swear word here> opinion without being flamed for no reason now ?? --Speysider (Talk Page) 19:39, April 16, 2012 (UTC)

... Yeah, I'm gonna leave this in the hands of someone with more authority and patience than I. --Hawkeye2701 (talk) 19:48, April 16, 2012 (UTC)

Well, I think since even the Japanese name says 'reincarnation', we should stay with it. Even the interwiki-link for 'reincarnation' in the English wikipedia links to 'tensei' in the Japanese one, while 'resurrection' links to 'fukkatsu'. I don't know much about the religious background, but Kishimoto-sensei would've probably used 'fukkatsu' if he wanted to say 'resurrection'. Seelentau 愛 20:04, April 16, 2012 (UTC)

With all due respect, I'd say no. For me, this isn't so much a translation thing as it is being true to what the technique does. Really, we need to have a standard for this. For example, can't sennin be translated as "hermit" or "sage", but the wiki chooses "sage" because that fits the description of how the term is used in the series in relation to real life sages were supposed to be like? At least to me, the use of 'reincarnation' here over 'resurrection' seems to give off a sense that this is similar to what Orochimaru does (and what reincarnation itself is supposed to be), the same being being brought back as something else. They are different, dure, but they are still, well, them. Is reincarnation ever even used to mean what this technique does? Skitts (talk) 20:35, April 16, 2012 (UTC)

As far as I understand this, 'reincarnation' is when a dead soul is brought back in another body, whereas 'resurrection' is when a dead soul is brought back in its own body. At least that would be my definiton, so correct me if I'm wrong. Seelentau 愛 20:54, April 16, 2012 (UTC)
Thats the fun thing about this job. Sometimes things are not as black and white. This is one of them. Reincarnation, as far as my limited understanding goes, means that when one dies and are reincarnated, the persons soul comes back to the realm of the living, but as another being. The soul is the same, but the person is different. So to speak.
If I read above correctly, for this jutsu Reincarnation works just as well as Resurrection. Reincarnation works as the people are sacrificed and "reincarnated" into the soul of the poor sap that got brought back. Resurrection works because yeah, people be coming back from the dead. --TheUltimate3 ~Keeper of Lore~ 20:57, April 16, 2012 (UTC)
Yes, technically both works, but 'reincarnation' would be more correct in terms of translation, because for 'resurrection', another term is used mostly (I think). And as I said, as far as I know the Edo Tensei works as a reincarnation. The problem is that both terms don't really differ... While we're at it, used to revive the dead would have to be changed, too. Seelentau 愛 22:03, April 16, 2012 (UTC)


Yeah, reincarnation works kind of. It's a bit of twisting of the meaning, since I don't think it implies being the same person like resurrection does. I don't really mind. But with us having renamed this article, shouldn't, say, Chiyo's One's Own Life Reincarnation be changed to resurrection since in that technique it's a true resurrection, exactly as the target was? Skitts (talk) 22:16, April 16, 2012 (UTC)

"Revive the dead" is a fine phrase to use. It's technically not wrong, and it sounds better than "reincarnating the dead with new bodies".--TheUltimate3 ~Keeper of Lore~ 22:19, April 16, 2012 (UTC)

Ah, that's where we realise that all things in the manga aren't being taken so literally. Or at least, it's use the reader's that put it under a microscope... poor Kishimoto lol. I think Chiyo's technique name should/can remain the same though because:

  1. apparently tensei means reincarnation and fukkatsu means resurrection
  2. what Chiyo is doing is actually reincarnating her own life, into someone else. That way, I see it following the same principle of reincarnation vs resurrection.--Cerez365Hyūga Symbol(talk) 01:30, April 17, 2012 (UTC)

And still we have "Chibaku Tensei", "Shinra Tensei" and "Rinne Tensei", which somehow translate into "Heavenly Body Bursting from the Earth", "Heavenly Subjugation of the Omnipresent God" and "Samsara of Heavenly Life Technique". No reincarnation here. Just saying.Faust-RSI (talk) 05:39, April 17, 2012 (UTC)

Because the Kanji aren't the same... Seelentau 愛 05:45, April 17, 2012 (UTC)
My bad, you're right Faust-RSI (talk) 05:50, April 17, 2012 (UTC)

IMO the 'resurrection' sounds better, though there's nothing wrong sticking with 'reincarnation'. —IndxcvNovelist (Talk to Me|My Wiki) 05:54, April 17, 2012 (UTC)

Being that the souls of those who are revived into a new body with this technique don't start life over again as reincarnation entails, but are rather forcefully removed from the pure world and put into a sacrafice's body, resurrection is a better term as this technique raises the dead and is not a natural occurrence as reincarnation is. I'm changing the name back. The Fox King(tylerbryant547@gmail.com (talk) 14:47, May 24, 2012 (UTC))

To be absolutely technical there is no resurrection in this technique.

  • Resurrection by definition is simply rising from the dead- If taken loosely, the shinobi do in fact "rise from the dead" from all outward appearances. However, because it is not into their own bodies (since a living sacrifice is needed) it cannot be a resurrection.
  • Reincarnation is the act of a soul being reborn into another thing. Hindu for example believe this happens- human souls being reborn into animal bodies.

In order for something to be resurrected, they have to return to their own body.

There is a subtle difference between the two words, but it makes all the difference, these people aren't resurrected, their souls are simply reincarnated into other people's bodies.--Cerez365Hyūga Symbol(talk) 15:19, May 24, 2012 (UTC)

Then its not really either one as reincarnation is natural. People dying and coming back as cats and dogs thats reincarnation. Resurrection is raising a dead person. This technique doesn't put their souls into their original bodies, but it does raise the dead by forced means which is resurrection. Therefore, resurrection makes for a better name for this article. The Fox King(tylerbryant547@gmail.com (talk) 15:45, May 24, 2012 (UTC))

But, it's a technique. There's nothing natural about them... Resurrection is raising a dead person but these people are not raised. There is no raising from the dead with this technique else the bodies would have been old and decrepit in some cases rather than how it was at the time the soul departed the body. Hashirama for example or even Sasori would have come back much older with limbs missing and huge chunks gone out of their bodies instead of in the form the soul remembers before they died. Their souls are summoned and then stuffed into someone else's body. That body is then coated is earth and ash and takes the form of the body the soul inhabited during life.--Cerez365Hyūga Symbol(talk) 15:53, May 24, 2012 (UTC)

Resurrection is still a closer description to what this technique does as it does revive a dead person period. Reincarnation is a natural occurrence and its starts life over again from the start, not resumes it where it left off like this technique does. Tensei can be translated as either and since this technique isn't natural and since life doesn't start over again, we should use resurrection as the name. Or maybe we shouldn't use either since this technique isn't straightly either. Maybe a new name like Impure World Revival is what we should use since it does straightly point to reviving the dead in a way. The Fox King(tylerbryant547@gmail.com (talk) 16:04, May 24, 2012 (UTC))

It isn't. Reincarnation is the better word choice here. I'm trying to explain to you that the person only appears to be resurrected to persons who don't know any better but they've actually been reincarnated into another person's body. I don't know why you keep saying reincarnation is a natural process because for one, this is a fiction, two it's a technique essentially created to bypass that and thirdly, reincarnations have not always been "natural". People in history have tried to force reincarnations. You're taking it to mean that in order to be reincarnation the person has to die naturally then naturally be reborn into something else — which may be the case in Hinduism and Bleach but not here. The world revival and resurrection mean the same thing. It's simple:

  • Resurrection- in your own body
  • Reincarnation- in something else, even a tea cup.--Cerez365Hyūga Symbol(talk) 16:20, May 24, 2012 (UTC)

In everything I've ever read about reincarnation, its natural though. his technique isn't natural. Plus reincarnation means that the revived starts life over again too. Resurrection on the other hand doesn't necessarily mean revived in your own body, all the word points to is reviving the dead by some means. There fore its better we called this technique resurrection. The Fox King(tylerbryant547@gmail.com (talk) 16:31, May 24, 2012 (UTC))

But this is fiction. What technique do you know in Naruto series that's natural? Resurrection mean someone coming back from the dead but these people aren't coming back from the dead, their souls are. Bound and etc etc etc.--Cerez365Hyūga Symbol(talk) 16:39, May 24, 2012 (UTC)

This jutsu actually matches with both, Reincarnation - Embodiment in a new form and Resurrection - A revival from inactivity(afterlife). akz! ANBU Symbol 16:40, May 24, 2012 (UTC)

Then why call it reincarnation when it doesn't resemble as much? Life picks up where it left off for the people revived unless the reviver decides otherwise, not starts all over again as something else. Their still people with the same looks and age they had when they died. This technique is forced revival of the dead not natural in which it happens on its own. In fiction, anything can happen. This manga could have done it that way, but it showed it in a forced way. Why should we call it reincarnation when that doesn't make sense as much sense? @Cerez Being that a soul is the most important part, thats more the person than the body. Its in charge of everything, moving, feeling, thinking. The body is just a shell. The Fox King(tylerbryant547@gmail.com (talk) 16:54, May 24, 2012 (UTC))

This isn't even a case of which word is the better translation. Every online dictionary I can find says that tensei, with the kanji used in this technique, means "reincarnation". The one alternative to that was "transmigration (of souls)". Not one of them says "resurrection". The closest thing in the Naruto series I could find that actually means resurrection or revival is the word 復活 (fukkatsu), which was used in the title of a chapter during the fight against the Edo Kage. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 21:23, May 24, 2012 (UTC)

Still doesn't make sense for it to have kanji like that when what the technique does isn't reincarnation at all. Transmigration would make for a better name. The Fox King(tylerbryant547@gmail.com (talk) 22:07, May 24, 2012 (UTC))
It's rather pointless to continually debate the semantics of the two words given that, as others have already said, both terms are actually appropriate here, although they do convey different aspects of the technique. Regardless, the name change occurred so recently because, given the context, "resurrection" was not appropriate for Sage Art: Inorganic Reincarnation despite its name also containing "転生" (tensei). So, primarily in order to maintain consistency, this technique was changed to "reincarnation" instead. Blackstar1 (talk) 22:31, May 24, 2012 (UTC)

Well now that makes since. Having people who read everywhere here wonder about such as that is pointless. Alright, reincarnation is good to keep people from wondering. The Fox King(tylerbryant547@gmail.com (talk) 22:43, May 24, 2012 (UTC))

References

THIS DISCUSSION IS CLOSED. DO NOT RESPOND OR EDIT THIS SECTION.

I think it would be nice to have citations for when every use of this has come from in the manga. I know that Kabuto's first use of it is in chapter 489 page 17, but there are no citations for ET at all between Orochimaru's use, and 516. ````Almightywood —This unsigned comment was made by 71.90.30.25 (talkcontribs) .

I don't think so IMO. Because the article only explains the jutsu. —IndxcvNovelist (Talk to Me|My Wiki) 15:59, April 16, 2012 (UTC)
Personally I use this (and every other) wiki solely for the citations. If it's a good explanation, it should be backed up by as much evidence as possible. I mean how hard would it be to include a subsection on instances of use? Most of them are already listed in the citations, just a few missing. Kabuto's first use of it I think deserves a citation at some point if nothing else for it's value to the plotline.````almightywood —This unsigned comment was made by 71.90.30.25 (talkcontribs) .
So basically, you want to use the wikia as a directory? There are other solutions to that like reading through the manga.--Cerez365Hyūga Symbol(talk)16:36, April 16, 2012 (UTC)
So what you are saying then is that you don't think having citations is a good idea for a wiki? A wiki isn't a blog, it's supposed to be your all in one information stop with the citations to back it up. I have read the manga over and over, that doesn't mean I can remember when specific events occured off the top of my head, and if looking up ET on this wiki doesn't tell me when Kabuto showed Tobi ET Madara, well that's not very informative at all in my opinion. Let's leave out the parts of the jutsu that actually affected the plot, while we make sure to include every possible deduction we can come up with about it.... It's only half an article that way. I even gave the information on where it is, it's not like I was just saying 'this suxx make it bedder' I merely didn't want to make the edit myself because I am not good at formatting. ````Almightywood
No, citations are good. The way you asked was meh. Anyway, can you restate clearly the section that you want the citation for and if you have the actual reference state that as well and I'll add it.--Cerez365Hyūga Symbol(talk) 16:55, April 16, 2012 (UTC)
I guess The trivia section would be best. Something like: Kabuto used this technique to join forces with Akatsuki right before the start of the 4th great ninja war CH 490 P1, Madara was first revealed at this time 490 p3, though it wasn't revealed to be him until much later CH 559 p15 ----almightywood

Ah, so I was right. I was under the misconception that there was unreferenced information in the article. Why exactly does Kabuto's first instance of use need to be mentioned? Should it also be mentioned that Tobirama was mentioned to have used this technique whenever as well? There is references to everything on this wikia in one form or the other. If you go to kabuto's page the information is represented there. Every single bit of information can in no way be represented in a single place especially something so trivial as Kabuto's first use with regards to this article.--Cerez365Hyūga Symbol(talk) 17:18, April 16, 2012 (UTC)

There is indeed unreferenced information regarding the history and use of this jutsu. Why should you have to go to another page to find the way it affected the plot. Whatever you are just trolling me now. I guess I will just add it myself anyway, don't blame me if it's ugly. ````almightywood
I am not trolling you. When Kabuto used it is just an unnecessary piece of information to be added to the article because it ties into nothing there. How the technique works, effects, counteracting etc are mentioned. The only thing about use that is ever mentioned in articles is when the technique débuted, not when every user has used it.--Cerez365Hyūga Symbol(talk) 17:31, April 16, 2012 (UTC)
I am going to be a stupid son-of-a-gun and assume that the reason Cerez is opposed to this is because, if we mention "Orochimaru used this jutsu Chapter #117, and Kabuto used this jutsu in chapter #520" it would open a pandoras box where every jutsu with with than one user having a terribly long trivia or user note. Unnecessary in the least, and counter productive to the article at best.--TheUltimate3 ~Keeper of Lore~ 17:36, April 16, 2012 (UTC)
But the name of the page isn't: The theory of Summoning: Impure World Resurrection, there isn't another page titled: Usage and History of Summoning: Impure World Resurrection. There's just the one page titled: Summoning: Impure World Resurrection, so what you are saying makes no sense to me. I believe that you would be worried about people demanding many things, but if they provide the citations then what's the big deal? More info is always better than less when you are talking about a wiki (unless it is redundant). ````almightywood
Like I said before: the information is represented elsewhere. The wikia has done its part, it's up to you to source it from there.--Cerez365Hyūga Symbol(talk)17:48, April 16, 2012 (UTC)
Like I said before, that doesn't synch up with the title of the page. Now you should quit being information nazis and let me put this up since it is entirely logical to put it here. A wikia would have done it's job if they put the information up EVERYWHERE someone would look for it, not just in one logical spot. 71.90.30.25 (talk) 01:40, April 17, 2012 (UTC) almightywood

You'll have to forgive us. We prefer not to use unnecessary clutter for clutters sake. If they want to know when Kabuto used a jutsu, they can go to Kabuto's page.--TheUltimate3 ~Keeper of Lore~ 20:07, April 16, 2012 (UTC)

Sorry man, you ain't going to beat me on this, I'll set up a bot if I have to, but then you will never be able to make it look pretty. Your choice, get stuck with the ugly version, or accept that you are wrong and go with the flow. If you don't wnt it there, change the title of the page to Theory of ET (or something else appropriate. If you want to come up with an off-topic response, make it not fit with the title, otherwise your protestations of clutter are straight up BS any way you look at it.71.90.30.25 (talk) 01:40, April 17, 2012 (UTC)almightywood
Looool. Or get banned for premeditating vandalising the wikia. So by all means, go ahead. Because you're being an utter jackass... just because the first time Kabuto used the technique is not mentioned? gtfo.--Cerez365Hyūga Symbol(talk) 01:48, April 17, 2012 (UTC)
It ain't vandalizing, it's making it better. I'm not gonna let you burn this book, nazi. There is already information of this sort in the trivia section (Kabuto not being able to resurrect Jiraiya and Shisui, which is no more pertinent than anything else, as it deals with no mechanics, nor even an actual instance of ET, just an inability to find their DNA, making this way more off topic than what I wish to include). You are just being pointlessly obtuse, and I guarantee I am more stubborn than either of ya. Besides it's not like I don't know how to use Proxies, and since this is a wiki, no matter what it won't be illegal for me to continue to edit it. Now quit being a jackass for no reason, the jackassery started with you, how about you end it too? 71.90.30.25 (talk) 01:55, April 17, 2012 (UTC) almightywood
Oops, my inability to format messed me up there. Sorry about that 71.90.30.25 (talk) 02:14, April 17, 2012 (UTC)

Two persons already explained to you why there's no need to add information like that yet you make promises of vandalisation and sock puppetry as well? That's right, keep digging that hole kozo.--Cerez365Hyūga Symbol(talk) 02:19, April 17, 2012 (UTC)

Whatever man, I already told you it ain't vandalism. This is a public wiki it is purposefully set up to not have to have an account to edit it, just because you have an account and I don't doesn't make my edit vandalism. Your explanations fail when examined. The title of the page isn't the theory of ET, and there is already less pertinent information than this included in the very same section I am attempting to put it in. At least my edit is for the purpose of making the page more informative. You are just being a jerk.71.90.30.25 (talk) 02:26, April 17, 2012 (UTC)
Aye, a jerk. That is why after seeing the addition that you wanted to be made and telling you it was unnecessary- sentiments that were echoed by another user, as you simply want to use the wikia as a directory- which it isn't. It's never been about whether or not I have an account and you don't. It's about you threatening to:
# I'll set up a bot if I have to

Intent to vandalise

# it's not like I don't know how to use Proxies

Intent to use sock puppets

# You coming here and issuing out ultimatums like you're al qaeda.

Don't respond well to threats.

You keep on talking about the "theory of ET" and I'd love nothing more than to tell you to stfu because information referencing Kabuto's first use of the technique isn't there leads to discrediting the whole article? Kabuto wanting to reincarnate certain people falls under what is known as "trivia" Kabuto's first use of the technique however is "junk trivia" pretty soon every article will have to mention when every single user used the technique which, like I said before, is unnecessary. You have a nice time breathing now y'hear.--Cerez365Hyūga Symbol(talk) 02:44, April 17, 2012 (UTC)

Whatever man, using a bot isn't instant vandalism. It's a regular practice on most wikis to PREVENT vandalism. Which is exactly the way I would be using it. It's only vandalism if you were actually... <gasp> vandalizing, I was adding pertinent information in the relevant section, Bot or not, that's not vandalism. You keep saying what I want to include is off topic, and unneccesary, and unless it was titled the theory of ET you are full of crap. Because it is in incidence of usage and history of ET thereby making it relevant to the article. If you want to say it's off-topic, then it would have to be an article dealing solely with the mechanics of the jutsu. That means that there wouldn't even be any trivia. You don't like it w/e. I will be back again and again, because I don't respond well to people 'burning books'.Almightywoody (talk) 02:52, April 17, 2012 (UTC)
As far as I know, the only people allowed to use bots here are Admin. I never said what you wanted to add was off-topic, just that it was unnecessary information in this article when it can be found elsewhere. As for returning, feel free to do so, the undo buttons works just fine until higher-ups can deal with you.--Cerez365Hyūga Symbol(talk) 02:58, April 17, 2012 (UTC)
Kabuto bribing his way into Akatsuki with ET is no more unnecessary information than him being unable to find the DNA to summon Shisui or Jiraiya. Again your arguments against this being here fail. What's the other one? People will start whining that every instance of everything should be everywhere? You can't tell me people don't do that already. They're going to continue to do it either way. No matter what kind of product or service you are providing whether it be a public service, or one for monetary gain, people will always find a reason to complain. Saying that people will complain because of this is kind of like saying tomorrow will be another day, it means nothing really. When it comes down to it, you have no real valid reason for this not to be here, other than you don't like me. You can't fool me man. You think admins will ban me for this? I disagree, I am doing exactly what they would want a new person to. I am improving one of their articles. I haven't actually used a bot yet, but when I wish to.... http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/Narutopedia:Sock_puppetryAlmightywoody (talk) 03:07, April 17, 2012 (UTC)
I still think the Admins will block you because you refuse to cease and desist after many users reverted your edits. -White Flash-(Talk)- 03:13, April 17, 2012 (UTC)
Exactly what does Kabuto using this technique to inveigle his way into Akatsuki have to do with this technique? It's not an "all things impure world reincarnation" article, it's supposed to talk about the jutsu and the mechanics behind it. Else it'd be much longer mentioning what each reincarnated individual's done with it. Simply based off the principle that peoples intitial use of a technique apart from its début does not need to be mentioned. You're being simple-minded if you believe that what you're doing is anything near improving the article and can't understand that the information is represented elsewhere. As for everything else, I now believe you're one of those educated idiots and as such I'm done talking to you until someone else interjects because if you think adding something like that, just to get your own way is improving the wikia, you're delusional.--Cerez365Hyūga Symbol(talk) 03:17, April 17, 2012 (UTC)

I don't play nice when people threaten to use any means at their disposal. We've told you; that information is better suited in Kabuto's page. If you wish to use a bot to keep adding it, then I'm afraid you're time at this wiki will come to an end.

In case anyone else feels the need to add to this discussion, I will tell you now to not bother. This discussion is officially closed.--TheUltimate3 ~Keeper of Lore~ 03:20, April 17, 2012 (UTC)

conditions image

Change the image under the Conditions heading to this image because the page is locked to sysop's only. --Speysider (Talk Page) 12:11, May 24, 2012 (UTC)

I know there was that whole controversy over images before, but can't we find a better picture than that Deidara one? Would it not be better to display an Edo revived person leaving their coffin or perhaps a better angle on implanting the seal kunai? --Hawkeye2701 (talk) 09:04, June 22, 2012 (UTC)

Infobox Picture

We should change it into a picture that shows the coffins like in episode 221 when kabuto uses it to show it to tobi --EzioLover (talk) 09:57, June 22, 2012 (UTC)

Why? Current one is perfectly fine. =.= --Speysider Talk Page | My Image Uploads | Tabber Code | My Wiki | Channel 10:45, June 22, 2012 (UTC)
I'd prefer the ones where it was first used, with the coffins of the First and Second used by Orochimaru. Can't remember why we changed it to Kabuto's use in Part II.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol (talk) 11:38, June 22, 2012 (UTC)
I was also wondering that as well. This was my Higher Quality upload of the previous image that was on the infobox. --Speysider Talk Page | My Image Uploads | Tabber Code | My Wiki | Channel 11:41, June 22, 2012 (UTC)

When it was changed Ulti, the editor gave the reason: "It shows the imperfections being fixed and it has the dark sclera which the first anime portrayal of jutsu didn't have" --Cerez365Hyūga Symbol(talk) 11:47, June 22, 2012 (UTC)

Imperfections aren't an issue, the jutsu still functioned. The animation error could be however, though I still feel an image with the coffins would be preferable. The current one just looks as if he summoned a black eyed Deidara from the ether.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol (talk) 12:02, June 22, 2012 (UTC)
I'm with TU3 on this one. --Speysider Talk Page | My Image Uploads | Tabber Code | My Wiki | Channel 10:20, June 27, 2012 (UTC)
The Orochimaru and two Hokage one could just show that the three people are there, it doesn't explain that he resurrected them. Kabuto putting a talisman into a black-sclera Deidara, now that shows something related to the technique, and we don't need the coffin to show us that. Yatanogarasu (Talk) 10:32, June 27, 2012 (UTC)
That image doesn't show the talisman. It just shows a hooded Kabuto behind a black-sclera Deidara, which just be looking at it, appears as if he was summoned from the ether. That's the issue with it. At least with an image with coffins it gives off the impression that "Why yes, these people are dead.".--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol (talk) 11:12, June 27, 2012 (UTC)

Weapons

Why when the seven swordsmans of the mist were ressurected,they did not have their swords initialy,but the gold and silver brothers had the treasurers tools from the beggining?--Mju (talk) 03:14, July 13, 2012 (UTC)

They were in the brothers stomach while the Swordsman's weapons were not with them when they died. Joshbl56 03:35, July 13, 2012 (UTC)
Not quite. Kabuto probably had to retrieve the tools, much like probably did with the swords. I don't know how that would work for the brothers, since they'd have stashed the weapons inside themselves, but the reincarnated body isn't actually theirs. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 19:35, July 13, 2012 (UTC)

A mystery ... you could ask from where did Mangetsu get the summoning scroll for example--Elveonora (talk) 20:45, July 13, 2012 (UTC)

I think it's possible that they hid the weapons before death or something like that, and that upon reincarnation, Kabuto had them retrieve it. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 20:58, July 13, 2012 (UTC)

The fact that Asuma didn't have his chakra blades despite dying with them likely means that Kabuto procured the weapons himself, or at least the unique ones (Deidara's clay, Kakuzu's masks, etc.). As for the weapons regenerating, it may be that anything given to the reincarnated regenerate along with them; it could explain the Akatsuki members' red cloaks and the other clothing inconsistencies (Chiyo's hat, for example).--BeyondRed (talk) 02:46, July 14, 2012 (UTC)

Black eyes

When Orochimaru ressurected the hokages, their eyes were not black. When Kabuto ressurected some shinobis, their eyes were black. Kabuto said that he perfected the jutsu. Do you think it is because he perfected that the eyes changed colour?--Mju (talk) 02:32, July 14, 2012 (UTC)

If you are referring to the First and Second having entirely white eyes in the manga, then Kabuto's summons did as well, they were just hidden by shadows. You could see that Deidara's eyes were white when he was taking Kabuto to the Island Turtle.--BeyondRed (talk) 02:49, July 14, 2012 (UTC)

Around Wikia's network

Random Wiki