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Revision as of 01:00, August 29, 2013 by LeafShinobi (Talk | contribs)

Yang vs. Sun

Why is it "Six Red Yang Encampment", not "Six Red Sun Encampment"? Based on Four Red Suns Battle Encampment, shouldn't we rename this page, or that one, so they are both consistent with each other? Yatanogarasu (Talk) 06:53, August 18, 2013 (UTC)

I only ask because I don't want to cause an edit war by changing without first asking. Yatanogarasu (Talk) 06:54, August 18, 2013 (UTC)
Because Seenlauntau, our local Japanese translator, got his hands on the RAW and translated it. Never, ever, ever, ever, trust scanalations for proper translations. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol 07:00, August 18, 2013 (UTC)
Yes, I noticed how most of the time the scanlations are wrong with translating. RainbowShifter 07:09, August 18, 2013 (UTC)
No, I mean, both are Yōjin, so why not Sun or Yang for both? Scanlation not counting, why differ in our own translation for these two techniques? Yatanogarasu (Talk) 07:24, August 18, 2013 (UTC)
Because kanji have multiple meanings, and this is how this kanji translates. Just because romanji sound the same, do not make them the same meaning. Homophones are rampant in Japanese. Simple as that. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol 07:27, August 18, 2013 (UTC)
Well I know Yō represents both, but how did it occur to us that this kanji means Yang, and not sun, or the other way around for that? Not really arguing, just curious. Yatanogarasu (Talk) 07:39, August 18, 2013 (UTC)
四赤陽陣 六赤陽陣
Then I'll argue. Did Seenlauntau actually translate these? Because unless I am more blind than I usually am, they are spelled exactly the same except for the instance of Four and Six. Either one is wrong or both are.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol (talk) 07:45, August 18, 2013 (UTC)
Seenlantau did translate them. Talk:Narutopedia#Chapter 643. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol 07:58, August 18, 2013 (UTC)

The thing is, 陽 is the Japanese word for Yang, but as we all know, Yang comprises many things, one of them is sun. If you search for 陽 in the Japanese wikipedia, it redirects you to the Yin-Yang article. That's why I chose Yang over sun as a translation. Furthermore, we have translated 陽 always that way, otherwise we wouldn't have Yang Release, but Light Release. Seelentau 愛 13:04, August 18, 2013 (UTC)

And my name is Seelentau, dammit :D If you can't spell it, just call me Tau, like the Greek letter :) Seelentau 愛 13:10, August 18, 2013 (UTC)
Sees "Seenlantau" spits out coffee. Hahaha xD--Elveonora (talk) 13:26, August 18, 2013 (UTC)

Well, lord, its hard to spell >_< From now on, I'll just call him Seel. That's more amusing anyways. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol 13:39, August 18, 2013 (UTC)

But "Seel" does not make sense, if it would be "Seele", it could be translated into "soul" but without the e, it would be like "sou". At least "Tau" can be translated into "dew". :DNorleon (talk) 13:58, August 18, 2013 (UTC)
I dun typ gud @ 3am.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol (talk) 14:06, August 18, 2013 (UTC)
Well, thanks for clearing this whole thing up for me. Sorry for being so persistent. And don't feel bad, people spell names wrong, oh how many times do I see my name misspelled, even from government letters. Yatanogarasu (Talk) 16:40, August 18, 2013 (UTC)

The thing is, I think that "sun" makes more sense in these two techniques, because it ties in better as a whole with the lesser technique, Four Violet Flames Battle Encampment. Since they follow pretty much the same naming structure, I believe they should also be translated equally. Following the established format, we would have Four/Six Red Suns Battle Encampment. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 19:10, August 18, 2013 (UTC)

I agree. I just double-checked with Lord Tangorin and it did come up with sunshine and I know the whole principle behind the Yin-Yang stuff, but sun does follow previous conventions and sounds better.--Cerez365Hyūga Symbol(talk) 19:25, August 18, 2013 (UTC)
Bumping.—This unsigned comment was made by Omnibender (talkcontribs) .

I have a feeling you expect me to say something about this... well, I don't know. First of all, it should be "Battle Encampment". Second, why "sun"? Why not "sunshine" or one of the many other words 陽 can mean? Seelentau 愛 00:24, August 21, 2013 (UTC)

I was under the impression that "Battle Encampment" was 炎陣 (enjin). --TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol (talk) 00:30, August 21, 2013 (UTC)
No, that's Flame Encampment. But after doing a deeper search, I don't understand why we translate it as Battle Encampment, since 陣 simply means camp. Suki-senpai seemingly never said anything about it, I don't have any translation of him for that Kanji... maybe we should stick with Encampment, but that doesn't solve the yang/sun issue. Seelentau 愛 00:44, August 21, 2013 (UTC)
No it does not. Hm. To be perfectly honest, I'm stumped. The tried and true method of dealing with these impossible ones has always been "Untranslated", per Tengai Shinsei. But personally, I would just go with Sun. That whole "Red Sun" thing is catchy and it works.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol (talk) 00:55, August 21, 2013 (UTC)

The rōmaji of this technique as stated from Mangapanda's cleaned version which has been released today is Musekiyōjin. Shakhmootssign_zps2a261e68.png(Contact) 11:08, August 21, 2013 (UTC)

Could be, yes. Doesn't change the translation, though. Seelentau 愛 12:19, August 21, 2013 (UTC)

For me, the simplest translation for 陣 is "formation". Many articles which we list with "formation" in the name have this kanji. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 00:39, August 22, 2013 (UTC)

Bump. What's our decision on this front? --Cerez365Hyūga Symbol(talk) 07:47, August 27, 2013 (UTC)
Mu means Six
Seki means Red
means Yang. It is used in sun (太陽 taiyō), which literally means Great Yang. This term comes from the many things 陽 comprises, one of which is positive or light, in contrast to the negative dark 陰. 陽 doesn't translate to sun, but to light, which is embodied by the sun. That's why Yōton is translated as Light Release, but not as Sun Release.
Jin means camp, but roots in the Chinese word for (battle) formation, which is 阵 zhèn
Now, let's take a look at what Obito does while using this technique: He creates chakra stakes from his balls (no pun intended), which are made of Yin Yang-Release. Here we have the source for 陽, while 六 comes from the number of stakes created, 赤 from the color of the whole barrier and 陣 from the battle formation-esque arrangement of the stakes. There's nothing releated to a sun here, that's why I think Six Red Yang Formation would be the best translation. Seelentau 愛 16:09, August 28, 2013 (UTC)
Curious, what do we do with Four Violet Flames Battle Encampment and Uchiha Flame Battle Encampment then?--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol (talk) 16:42, August 28, 2013 (UTC)
We move them to Four Violet Flames Formation and Uchiha Flame Formation. Four Red Yang Encampment would become Four Red Yang Formation. Seelentau 愛 18:02, August 28, 2013 (UTC)
What about Water Release: Water Encampment Wall and Water Release: Water Encampment Pillar?--LeafShinobi (talk) 21:44, August 28, 2013 (UTC)
I see no reason to exclude them. Seelentau 愛 22:25, August 28, 2013 (UTC)
So, any objections?--LeafShinobi (talk) 01:00, August 29, 2013 (UTC)

Chakra receiver origin

Everyone take a look at mangapanda's cleaned pages. The chakra receivers obito shot came from the black spheres behind his hands. I guess this means they're made of the same stuff? MangekyoSasuke (talk) 05:33, August 22, 2013 (UTC)

Also, doesn't it mean this is derived from the ten tails chakra weapons? MangekyoSasuke (talk) 05:36, August 22, 2013 (UTC)
Aye. Which would sensibly mean that Madara didn't make them. They're simply something from the Ten-Tails' body.--Cerez365Hyūga Symbol(talk) 06:40, August 22, 2013 (UTC)

Agreed. I think this new info should be added. SusanooUnleashed (talk) 09:41, August 22, 2013 (UTC)

Wow, I only noticed that after reading the ms version... so that means Obito's weird chakra balls are actually... what? YYR? But why could Madara use them, when he wasn't the TT Jinchuriki? I think these aren't the chakra receivers Madara used, because they've a totally different source... Seelentau 愛 11:33, August 22, 2013 (UTC)

Now, Madara could have got these from the Ten Tails (statue) and imbued it with his own chakra/will. Obitio, now containing the Ten Tails, can just manifest them pre-imbued with his own chakra/will. Just a thought? SusanooUnleashed (talk) 12:23, August 22, 2013 (UTC)

I always thought it was ridiculous notion unless Madara sat around all day imbuing is will into a statue that so much of it could be made that allowed Nagato to wantonly waste it on piercings for example. It also struck me as odd that Madara's will could be manipulated by others like that. Either way this may need to be moved to a larger/more relevant discussion.--Cerez365Hyūga Symbol(talk) 14:12, August 22, 2013 (UTC)

I can't remember what chapter (one of the more recent ones) but they aren't all imbued with chakra. Madara placed his chakra into the rods that were placed inside Obito to create the Black Zetsu. This is the only time we see Madara actually do it. I would say the material is from the Statue and what that was "made" out of, with the slight enhancement of the chakra being imbued.

Thus why Obito can just create and fire his own. Or even if the material was/is of Ying/Yang Release and that's why Madara/Obito can create/control them.

But yes, I do agree with Cerez with one slight adjustment. This WILL need to be moved to a larger/more relevant discussion. SusanooUnleashed (talk) 15:18, August 22, 2013 (UTC)

Therefore the only rods imbued with Madara's will were those in Obito and one in Hash Clone. As such Will Materialisation should be modified. Actually that would explain why it came from Hash clone then, it simply descended from Ten-Tails' navel down through Hash clone's. Still wondering for what purpose was that single rod to be used. Kinda speculative but logical, Madara likely planted those rods into Obito's body while he was unconscious still, at the same time as fixing his damaged part with hash, so he must have planned in advance--Elveonora (talk) 16:07, August 22, 2013 (UTC)

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