my thoughts exactly. Talking about the body of a woman includes her chest, goddamit. You can't say that's perverted, it's the same as saying "he has a muscular body..."94.135.242.181 (talk) 22:37, January 13, 2013 (UTC)

Your argument works more in his favor than yours. All women have breasts, so why do they need to be mentioned? All women have noses and mouths, but those aren't added to every appearance section. Is it a certain size of breast that deserves mention? If so, how is it decided if a breast is large enough? Is it something the wiki decides, or is it something the series decides by drawing attention to them? ~SnapperTo 22:51, January 13, 2013 (UTC)

I would say if the series draws attention to them. For example, this never happened with Tenten or Shizune, but with Tsunade, Ino and Shizuka (I mean, she is nothing more than a fanservice character, why would she wear such clothes anyway?) However, that's just my opinion, I bet there are several who would be against it.94.135.242.181 (talk) 23:00, January 13, 2013 (UTC)

I personally agree with letting the series decide. If Samui's are large enough that Omoi thinks she suffers from back problems, mention them. If Hinata's are big enough that Sakura is jealous, mention them. But if nobody within the series makes a fuss about the size of a woman's breasts, they don't need to be mentioned. (Whether or not that applies to Shizuka, I don't know.)

And, when mentioning them, don't be coy. "Her figure has also grown to become much more womanly" is stupid. ~SnapperTo 23:13, January 13, 2013 (UTC)

where does such thing stay?94.135.242.181 (talk) 23:18, January 13, 2013 (UTC)

Are you asking where the line I quoted is from? It's from Hinata's article. ~SnapperTo 23:27, January 13, 2013 (UTC)

It does make sense that it would be better to mention breasts if mentioned by another character.Shaun- -tobi (talk) 23:30, January 13, 2013 (UTC)

@snapper2 yes, I meant that, because it is indeed stupid.94.135.242.181 (talk) 23:32, January 13, 2013 (UTC)

X29's reasons for removing their "appearance" is beyond stupidity, they're not perverted in anyway. This is a Wiki, we're supposed to be descriptive and yet his childlike mind is preventing that from happening. Other wikis describe a female appearances just like how we do and they're not a "site full of perverts".--White Flash ^(Contact) 04:07, January 14, 2013 (UTC)

Um i'm putting my two cents in. I think that simply mentioning a female characters breasts isn't in itself perverted, but excessive mentioning and unnecessary detail are. If a female character has a flat chest let's mention it, if they have abnormally large breasts let's mention it, especially if it was mentioned by other characters. Such as Omoi mentioning Karui's flat chest or Samui's back problems being caused by her breasts, and Tsunade, especially considering Jiraiya even gave an estimate on her bust size.71.71.58.231 (talk) 05:11, January 14, 2013 (UTC) Yomiko-chan

I don't know if people in here are breast-haters or something, it's EXACTLY the same as mentioning someone is tall, muscular etc. there's nothing perverted about it, breasts and women in general are oversexualized, that's why people consider it a "taboo" my god, it's a skin and fat. Just look at Shizuka, what's the first thing you notice? Exactly, her chest, because it's the most prominent physical trait of hers, thus should be mentioned.--Elveonora (talk) 11:03, January 14, 2013 (UTC)

There was a whole discussion behind this already (there are links you can follow). It was around the time when character's descriptions talked about the characters small waist lines and life-giving hips etc which I thought was a bit more than necessary to describe a character and to be honest it started sounding like a graphic novel read. Anyway, I thought we came to the conclusion that a character with large breasts were one of those things most people aren't going to overlook, so as a compromise, I really have no problem with articles mentioning a character's breasts in favour of removing the bits of otherwise "unnecessary" information, because this is a manga, and we cant exactly escape that part. I tried to explain that to him, but he's made his own decision it would seem.--Cerez365^™(talk) 11:24, January 14, 2013 (UTC)

Since removing the "perverted" edits is only beneficial to X29, not us, shall we restore what was removed unfairly?--White Flash ^(Contact) 11:39, January 14, 2013 (UTC)

sounds good to me.94.135.242.181 (talk) 11:45, January 14, 2013 (UTC)

Discussion isn't over quite yet though kozos.--Cerez365^™(talk) 11:51, January 14, 2013 (UTC)

The reasons to why I always revert edits such as this one is 'cause if these 'assets' weren't mentioned multiple times in the series, just like Tsunade's, then they're perverted and not worth mentioning. You call it unfair, just compare it to Tsunade's. --X29 12:43, January 14, 2013 (UTC)

That is not a reasonable, or fairly logical reason to remove the mention of their breasts. By that logic, the manga itself is perverted because Kishimoto has canonically made mention of things like this and puts thought into his character's appearances, hence there should be no reason not to mention them. That is again why I told you to learn to compromise, the mention of them having a "large bust" or "sizeable cleavage" should be fine with anyone once it is not mentioned in a way that reads perversely allowing us to remove the more unnecessary mentions of supple skin and slender legs.--Cerez365^™(talk) 12:49, January 14, 2013 (UTC)

The mentioning of the 'assets' would only go to the ones who had their own 'assets' mentioned in canon, which up till now was just Tsunade. Anyone else who gets that much mentioning, go on and put on those perverted details. Sighs heavily This world sickens me....... --X29 13:01, January 14, 2013 (UTC)

I don't understand the issue that you're having with this, it's not as if the size, shape and colour of the character's nipples are being described... all that is being said is "sizeable cleavage/ample bussom/bust/breasts (if people don't want to make it tasteful v_v) why is that so much of an issue to you?--Cerez365^™(talk) 13:07, January 14, 2013 (UTC)

Srsly?... Samui, Hinata, Ino folding her breasts in an omake, Killer B talking about nipples, should I go on? 99% of anime have "preverse elements" Kishimoto himself is a pervert, if you have a problem, do not read/watch. EDIT: also about boys transforming into naked girls and Sai talking about Naruto's penis. Bot to get the point across, it's part of her appearance? Yes, it is. There's no ulterior motive at all--Elveonora (talk) 13:18, January 14, 2013 (UTC)

@Cerez Mentioning them alone is the issue, seeing as no one in canon mentioned them. Now, Tsunade, that happened. Other characters, not. I'm leaving Tsunade's article just like that 'cause of that. Other characters, let them be mentioned enough times just like Tsunade. And, in case you misunderstood, when I said "This world sickens me", I wasn't limiting it to just this. There are much more things in this world that sicken me.

@Elveonora What about Samui and Hinata? And where was that time where Ino fondled her breasts? And not 99% of anime have perverted elements. And what makes you so sure that Kishimoto's a pervert? And as for the Sai thing, that was different. He asked him if he was a girl or a boy, and he got his answer without having Naruto say it. And it isn't part of her appearance. As a matter of fact, it's part of her body. When it gets mentioned multiple times, that becomes an appearance. As for clothes and such, those are appearance automatically. --X29 13:22, January 14, 2013 (UTC)

Like I said before that train of thought is flawed. I don't think Kishimoto is a pervert, but there are simply ageless parts of elements present in all manga. If that weren't the case then all the female characters would have "normal sized" mammaries and such things as bathing in hot springs etc would never come up, neither would Sai talking about Naruto's penis (I almost forgot about that lol) which by your logic we should mention because Sai's brought it up several times. At the same time we've seen Naruto's butt yeah? But it isn't described in his appearance section, I'm against stuff like that. We shouldn't have a problem with:

• "She wears a very low-cut outfit which displays her w/e cleavage, with mesh armour underneath"
  • It is "tastefully" done and flows with her general description.
• "Her figure has also grown to become much more womanly."
  • That is used for Hinata and covers everything there. Now Kishimoto has mentioned Hinata's bosom in the road to ninja short right, but to me at least, there is no appropriate place to mention that she has large breasts. Same would go for Ino and Mei who Kishimoto has mentioned bussom size in the creation and conception part.
• "She also has a rather large bust."
  • That was what was being added to Shizuka's article. For me at least, apart from being mentioned already, could have been done without or else meshed into the article with reference to her attire "exposing her ample cleavage" or what not so it doesn't stand alone like "yeah lemme add this too just in case people missed them".

I just feel we have to be careful with how we leave descriptions, because whether we like it or not, people have always objectified manga/anime characters and would want to represent that here (just run any female character's name through an unfiltered search engine and see what you get).--Cerez365^™(talk) 14:00, January 14, 2013 (UTC)

I never said that Kishi's a pervert. Elveonora did. And I don't see what you mean by "Ageless", seeing as the word means something like immortal from age aspect, like the elves from Lord of the Rings. And why should we mention the boy or girl thing when it was mentioned twice only? And if we do mention it, where shall we add it? And what if we say Naruto's butt? Nothing worth mentioning 'bout that. And I can go on with the first sentence. The second, however, doesn't seem to be that much worth mentioning, as I can see everyone's appearance didn't change that much in the two and half years. As for the third, that's what I'm against. --X29 14:22, January 14, 2013 (UTC)

But Naruto has a nice butt ._. but to stay on topic, what's the issue again? ;D Oh, use of appropriate wording. Also @X29 "it's part of body not appearance" is a flawed one, then we shouldn't mention the color of a character's eyes or hair as well. Honest opinion: breasts should be mentioned when they were subject of a dialogue in the manga/anime and/or are a prominent enough feature of a female character to be noted. Hinata's should be mentioned for example, I remember even Naruto commenting on Sakura's flat-chestness, comparing her to Hinata, not to mention the whole Road to Naruto thing etc. EDIT: maybe we should make a "breasts mention policy" lol. Seriously, I'm just laughing at this point, these things shouldn't be an issue at all. EDIT2: about Naruto's penis, well, maybe: "Sai's comments suggest that Naruto might not be that well endowed" or something--Elveonora (talk) 14:59, January 14, 2013 (UTC)

I can obviously tell you're gay, man. At any case, the colour's much different. It's automatically appearance as well. And I'd rather only mention it when it was mentioned in canon only. And Naruto didn't compare Sakura's chest to anyone. As for the Sai thing, he never meant such a thing. When he and Naruto first met, Sai struck at Naruto with his ink beasts. How Naruto fought back was what made Sai wonder whether he was a boy or a girl, which is why he asked him. When he saw Naruto's 'junk' in the hot springs, he got his answer. That's all there is to it. --X29 15:17, January 14, 2013 (UTC)

I can obviously tell ur being sarcastic. Topic, It must have been fillers/omake then. And thanks for explaining me the context, you surely remember it well in details ;D Okay, so no more edit wars so pointless discussions LIKE this one won't have to be made--Elveonora (talk) 15:24, January 14, 2013 (UTC)

And if he were or is gay, we would have no problem with that X29. There's no place for homophobes or bigots here. Any way, by ageless I mean since manga has been around mangaka have always had the right to draw overthetop/peculiar characters as they see fit, breasts are no different. I also didn't mention Naruto's buttocks or Sai's mention of his penis to be taken literally so don't argue over that. You're starting to take everything and spin it to your own benefit which you shouldn't do. As it is not the extremes of the argument are:

1. Mention bust (tastefully) because it's an inescapable issue and we weren't born in the dark like Ichigo.
2. Do not mention unless it's been mentioned several times in the series.

With that I believe we should just wait for more people to weigh in and give this matter a break for now.--Cerez365^™(talk) 15:30, January 14, 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for support Cerez, I think he was joking with that part about me, if he wasn't then as I said, a breasts-hater stating I'm gay would be scumbag style ^_ And honestly, there's nothing more to discuss. We are just bored and waiting for a new chapter to come as we have nothing better to do than taunting/poking each other and talking about boobs T_T not like the topic isn't interesting in itself, but come on, we are supposed to be professionals ;D right.... RIGHT??!!--Elveonora (talk) 15:39, January 14, 2013 (UTC)

@Elveonora What context are you talking about? And I wasn't being sarcastic. Just saying. And I'm not a breasts-hater. I'm an anti-pervertism. And I'm not trying to provoke anyone here. And what are we professionals at? Seriously, man. Doesn't make any sense.

@Cerez I was just stating it. Doesn't help my case whether he's gay or not. And I can understand why they'd draw characters like that. There are over four billion humans out there. Some of'em has to be just like the characters they're drawing (large bust and stuff). And you did mention Naruto's butt and Sai's mention of Naruto's 'junk'. Not that this helps my case anyways. And the mentioning of the bust is an inescapable issue with perverts just like those anonymous users, yes. But that doesn't mean it should be edited in the article when it wasn't even mentioned at all in canon. And who's Ichigo? --X29 15:47, January 14, 2013 (UTC)

@X29, u serious? 0_0 you don't get my humor it seems, my comment doesn't prove nor disprove my sexual orientation cause it was random. And I meant that you remember the context of the junk scene well for some reason ;) wanna confess something? Obviously not, neither do I. Only now I have realized that you are for real man. "anti-pervert" and a homophobe ? News to me, you won't be a friend with Jiraiya sensei... this is getting embarrassing folks. An admin should set rules about "taboo" contents in relation to a character's appearance--Elveonora (talk) 16:08, January 14, 2013 (UTC)

@Elveonora Where's the humour in saying that Naruto's got a nice butt? And I do remember it well. Why you ask? 'Cause that's the reason to why I hate Sai so much already. That's my confession: I hate Sai. And I sure won't get along with Pervy-Sage, as I'll be constantly bumping him on the head. Perverted old man...... And what's homophobia's supposed to mean? Fear of homosexual people? I don't fear'em. I just think that they're all under an illusion. --X29 16:16, January 14, 2013 (UTC)

Guys... please stop. This is straying away from article related talk to something we can't hope to finish.--Cerez365^™(talk)

I have made the Naruto's butt comment as a random response and a sarcastic remark to your arguments and the whole topic since I find them ridiculous. So you are okay with Tsunade, but not Shizuka or Hinata since that's not canon... since when do we mention only canon stuff? That's grasping at straws if you ask me. Do not bring personal bias into this, that's why I mentioned the "professionals" part, obviously, we are just fans and local editors, but the image of the wiki is important as a whole I guess. Question then, do you have a problem with "perversions" due to your own preferences or lack thereof, or don't you want people to think bad things about this wiki? If the latter, removing them might also make people think something about you/us. Also my "Kishimoto perv" comment is the same as Cerez said, this manga/anime have what we, the close-minded Americanized society would consider as mature and inappropriate content. You obviously have a personal problem with these things, then why don't I see you around flagging deletion tags to Sexy Technique and such, since it has nothing to do with story. being nothing more than fanservice?--Elveonora (talk) 16:30, January 14, 2013 (UTC)

@Elveonora Doesn't seem to be very sarcastic to me. And you find them ridiculous, I find them very rational and..... clean to say the least. And I'm ok with Tsunade, why you ask? 'Cause her side was mentioned enough times already in the canon. As for Shizuka and Hinata, I don't recall any aspect for Hinata other than the manga special for the movie, and Shizuka got nothing, I'm pretty sure of it. And I still don't get the professionals part. And my 'preferences' are as any normal man's would be: Heterosexual. And it's actually neither. I just wanna help this place get better as much as I can, which is very limited. Why you ask? 'Cause the people on here are pretty much close minded. And that 'mature' content's pretty much light to actual mature content, in my perspective. And my only problem's that the 6th most thing I hate is perverts and pervertism. And the reason to why I aren't flagging the Sexy Jutsu to be deleted is that it isn't actually fanservice. It's a Jutsu used in the series, and it was probably created by Kishimoto to show how much of a fool Naruto to go to extreme extents to get acknowledged. --X29 16:48, January 14, 2013 (UTC)

@X29 never thought our little fight would envolve into something like this. I find it rather shocking to see a homophobic trying to call others "close minded". are you serious or just the worst troll ever?94.135.242.181 (talk) 16:52, January 14, 2013 (UTC)

@Anonymous_User I'm not homophobic, nor am I a troll. --X29 16:56, January 14, 2013 (UTC)

o rly? so why do you think gay people are under a illusion and every normal man should be heterosexual?94.135.242.181 (talk) 16:57, January 14, 2013 (UTC)

Now I'm pretty sure you are trolling X29--Elveonora (talk) 17:07, January 14, 2013 (UTC)

@Anonymous_User Do you really want me to lecture you to why homosexuality's wrong?

@Elveonora I'm not. --X29 17:12, January 14, 2013 (UTC)

well, it's like you purposely erased your last bit of common sense. I would like to end this stupid discussion, for my part, without anti-homosexual contributors in the future.94.135.242.181 (talk) 17:13, January 14, 2013 (UTC)

@Anonymous_User My 'common sense' would make me as rotten as every other human in this world. I'm starting to become different than the other humans I've seen so far. Not that different's always better, mind you. And if you wanna leave this discussion, fine. Be that way. I could care less. --X29 17:49, January 14, 2013 (UTC)

By the Titans is this really happening?--TheUltimate3 ^(talk) 17:52, January 14, 2013 (UTC)

Okay this discussion is taking a completely different turn. We're heading into bad territory now, so i'm gonna play peacemaker and make a proposition. Why don't we have a vote like that notability thing Snapperto-shi came up with. And why do you hate breasts, gays, and just about everything else that can possibly be sexual? It's not perverted in itself to mention breasts, just as Cerez-shi said "It's not like we're mentioning the size colour etc. of their nipples".71.71.58.231 (talk) 17:54, January 14, 2013 (UTC) Yomiko-chan

we already are in bad territory, so I absolutely support your thoughts. Anything that ends this crap is fine. And do not try to discuss with this guy, a conversation with a rock would be more productive.94.135.242.181 (talk) 18:00, January 14, 2013 (UTC)

Seriously everyone? A discussion on breasts? This looks more like the kind of stuff you'd discuss on a forum...@X29, if you have problems with something this simple, then maybe you should focus your editing on something else. As a mid-term wiki editor here, i like having a wiki that's accurate, but this project is also something for people to read and have fun with it, so how do we do that without adding a pinch of spice every here and there...this is an anime/manga dedicated wiki, if don't add a little spice where it's necessary, it gets boring, and that does not make anyone here a major pervert. Now to everyone else, shut this discussion down, because the topic is beyond common sense and has gone too far. Darksusanoo (talk) 18:06, January 14, 2013 (UTC)

Apparently, edit wars about bodily parts are common these days. This will sound cruel, but I don't think X29 should be allowed to speak on this matter since looking at his talkpage, this isn't the first time it happened. This is something admins should "fix" --Elveonora (talk) 18:11, January 14, 2013 (UTC)

X29, the world does not revolve around you, get that through your little head. You remove the appearances of Shizuka and Hotaru for no reason whatsoever. Shock Dragon, IP:94.135.242.181 and myself reverted your trolling edits, then you put up such a petty fuss and started a revert war between us. You were told by Speysider to put aside your anti pervertism since it was annoying. You ignored him. From what you told me last year you "prefer diplomacy instead", yeah that was a load of bananas...--White Flash ^(Contact) 18:16, January 14, 2013 (UTC)

Yeah we could just ignore his homophobic woman hatin' self, and wait for the next chapter cuz' i just think this came up now cause everyone was bored with the chapterless weeks. Anyway like that Anon user said, he's not gonna give up so let's just treat him like a vandal just ignore him and revert his chouvenistic edits and leave it at that.71.71.58.231 (talk) 18:20, January 14, 2013 (UTC) Yomiko-chan

I feel bad for Snapper tho, it started as a valid concern, sorta--Elveonora (talk) 18:24, January 14, 2013 (UTC)

A thousand agrees with Yomiko-chan.--White Flash ^(Contact) 18:27, January 14, 2013 (UTC)

@TheUltimate3 "By the Titans".......... What do you watch?

@Yomiko I don't really like going by majority votes, as they aren't really that right in my eyes. But I guess that's the best way to deal with this. And I hate neither breasts nor every sexual thing. And the reason to why I hate homosexuality's that it's just an illusion on some humans in this world. And to mention the size of the chest is perverted itself. One shouldn't even take notice at first glance unless they're really focusing. Still, mentioning them is perverted, and having them on the article when it wasn't even mentioned in canon makes it all the more perverted. And you all seemed to hate me and treat me like a vandal from the very beginning. And you can ignore me all you want. I'll just have to assume that you all agree with me if you don't finish this discussion with me, just like with Lightning Transmission. And, as I said multiple times before, I'm not homophobic, but I do dislike women a lot. Actually, I just dislike some kinds of women. I'm pretty sure there's that good kind of women, even though...... the last one I met was a lie.......... But anyways, not gonna bother you all with my personal problems.

@Anonymous_User Language, and it isn't my fault that you all are close minded and never listen to reason.

@Darksusanoo Actually, it's a discussion on whether mentioning breasts in the articles or not. And.......... are you actually serious? 'Spice things up' in a place that's very similar to Wikipedia? Forget it, man. This place is here for displaying information and facts, not to satisfy your balls. Let it be boring. That's how it is. I, for one, like this Wiki as 'boring and dull'. Not that I think that it should stay like this just 'cause I said so, but anyways.

@Elveonora Everyone has a right to speak, no matter what.

@White_Flash When did I ever say that the world's all 'bout me? And I do have a reason to why I remove those perverted edits. And, as I said so many times already to multiple people, I'm not trolling. And I'm still using diplomacy here.

Signature: --X29 19:54, January 14, 2013 (UTC)

I'm starting to think that you don't even understand the meaning of said terms or something. The part about homosexuality and women makes no sense. So you hate homosexuals and think they live in illusion, but you aren't homophobic. Also you hate women but you meet up with them. Well, this is shaping into a one big interesting story, tell us more please--Elveonora (talk) 20:16, January 14, 2013 (UTC)

X29 the fact that you said you hate homosexuals is homophobia, let me remind you a phobia is a irrational fear/hatred born out of ignorance. As a pansexual female i must say you are an irritating man. My above statement stays as my last comment on your rediculous need to remove anything breast related on the series. Good Day To You Sir.71.71.58.231 (talk) 20:22, January 14, 2013 (UTC) Yomiko-chan

@Elveonora I don't hate homosexuals nor homosexuality (if I did say that I hate homosexuality, then I'm just gonna correct myself with this). And I don't hate women. I used to hate every woman, but not any more. And I didn't meet up with women. And, just letting you know, I know that you were being sarcastic, so don't misunderstand what I said in this post by thinking that I took it for real and told you a little bit more thinking you wanted it.

@Yomiko I don't hate homosexuals. And homophobia's fear of homosexuals, which I'm not. And you aren't the first person to think of me as annoying. But I could care less. And you think of it as ridiculous (notice the correct spelling of it here) while I think of it as reasonable, something you brick-headed buffoons refuse to understand. --X29 20:27, January 14, 2013 (UTC)

One of the main causes of a fear is hatred. Oh and Homophobia encompasses a range of negative attitudes and feelings toward homosexuality or people who are identified or perceived as being lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender (LGBT). It can be expressed as antipathy, contempt, prejudice, aversion, or hatred, and may be based on irrational fear So it's not just fear it's negativity in general. Oh and sorry for misspeling that, i don't have time to waist over making sure everything is spelled right for you since i'm busy.71.71.58.231 (talk) 20:44, January 14, 2013 (UTC) Yomiko-chan