Talk:Shinra Tensei

I do not believe that the translation "God Conquers the Heavens" is accurate. "神羅天征" is made up of the kanji for god, lightweight fabric or clothing, the last one is subjuigation, however the 2nd to last is NOT heaven, it's Deva. The 2nd to last kanji is likely a reference to the Deva path that uses the technique. Translating this as God Conquers the Heavens is like as others have pointed out, translating the Deva path as the Heaven Path. In the absense of any good translation we should stick with the romaji in this case. I don't want another case like Kira Hachi where we put out a false translation and people start to take it as fact. ~NOTASTAFF Daniel Friesen (DanTMan, Nadir Seen Fire) ^(talk) current discussion Nov 9, 2008 _@ 14:58 ^(UTC)

I'd like to chime in here.

• 天 does translate into Heaven, or Sky. However because the Japanese love to make their own language difficult, I have yet to find a place where Deva even exists in the Japanese language but I can say that "ten" can mean as many things as the number 10 to cultivating rice fields, but thats a whole different story in and of itself.
• With the annoyingness of the above left out, I can safely say without a fraction of a doubt, that 神=God. Or Divinity. Or Lord. Or Goddess. Or Deity. Regardless, it still means God, so that part is correct.
• With 征 meaning as many as Conquering, subjugate, and everything like that the combined 天征 does mean Heaven Conquering/Sky Conquering.--TheUltimate3 15:28, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

After doing a stupid amount of research and hunting, 神羅天征 is indeed the correct kanji found in the manga.

It's already been established that 神=God. 羅 can mean Thin Silk, Range, and Net. Completely dropping Think Silk out of the mix as it has almost zero relevance to the attack, that leaves Range and Net. 天 Directly translated means Heaven or Sky. Given the use of God, Heaven is most plausible. 征 means conquering or subjugate. Both of which are basically the same so they are really interchangeable.

Thus 神羅天征 can translate into God's Range Conquers Heaven, or God's Net Subjugates Heaven.--TheUltimate3 15:48, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

Please allow me to share my take on this jutsu name.

First, 神 (shin) means "god" or "kami". This was already established.

Second, 天 (ten) means "heaven," "divine," or "Deva". This was also already established.

Third, 征 (sei) means "to conquer" or "to subjugate". This was also already established.

Now, we get to the most difficult part. 羅 (ra). This can means "silk" or "gauze" as was already established. However, this kanji has another meaning. It's a common abbreviation of the word 魔羅 (Mara). Mara is a demon from Buddhist mythology. He tried to tempt the Gautama Buddha with his daughters. Since then, his name has become synonymous for "an obstacle to Buddhist practise" (and as such for the male reproductive organ ^^).

So in my eyes, the name Shinra Tensei would mean something like "Divine Subjugation of Those Hindering God".

However, I must say that it's a difficult kanji to translate. There is a possibility that Kishimoto is planning on explaining it, however. Gaara's name also ends in 羅 and his name was explained quite clearly. --ShounenSuki 18:39, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

Oh why does he keep doing these kind of things?!--TheUltimate3 22:56, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

That... doesn't sound good... Should I be apologising? --ShounenSuki 23:00, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

..huh? I was tlaking about Kishimoto. Why does he make translating his work so difficult. Is it Japanese? Yes it is, until it has 4 different meanings. Then it depends ont he character. Or until I want it o be close to a different language as possible, and thus I'm going to use words from Bhuddist. That makes sense...T_T he makes my head hurt.--TheUltimate3 23:07, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

Phew... I was afraid I did something wrong ^^

Anyway, Kishimoto doesn't decide on these names for foreigners. He wants them to sound good for Japanese people. To them, the 羅 kanji has a clear Buddhist connotation. There are dozens of Buddhists terms and names that use this kanji (mostly for its pronunciation). Since Pain has that whole Buddhism theme, it isn't really surprising his jutsu have Buddhist themes as well.

The average Japanese reader would look at the name of this jutsu and see a cool-sounding name vaguely meaning God-Buddhist Connection-Heaven-Subjugation. This probably isn't how Kishimoto thought of the name, but it's how his readers will see it.

Hell, for all we know he might actually have named this jutsu after the Shinra Company from FFVII. After all, Kishimoto loves video games.

I wonder if Japanese people have the same problems with the spells from Harry Potter... --ShounenSuki 23:29, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

Why do we keep translating 天 as Deva? He used it once in "Deva realm," it doesn't mean every single use of it pertinent to Pain is going to be Deva. Also, are we sure that the Konoha-destroying Shinra Tensei is the same thing that Pain was using to draw Kakashi towards/away from him? 207.80.142.5