Talk:Sasuke Uchiha

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QUESTIONS REGARDING TOPICS ALREADY IN THE TALK PAGE OR ITS ARCHIVES WILL BE REMOVED, ALONG WITH THE REPLIES TO IT

Concerning the Mangekyō Sharingan section

As I said in the summary of it's edit before: "Paragraphs and images—especially his first final Susanoo—were placed in that manner to form some semblance of event order. Topics are being mentioned prior to their descriptions." It comes off as a bit jumbled, which is why I tried to re-arrange it the way I did. Concerning the image of Sasuke's final Susanoo, I found it more appropriate to display his first rendition, as it was not only mentioned prior to the the summary of his Eternal Mangekyō, but because there's already a fine example of his Eternal Mangekyō version present in the War Arc section.

Lots of quips like that throughout the article, but I was focusing on those present in his Dōjutsu section, as that interests me most... Also, slightly unrelated, but when using the term Sannin, it should be used to describe all three of them, not individually. —SaiST ^{「talk|contrib」} 08:56, July 20, 2013 (UTC)

... Er, to clarify: I would simply like to re-instate the format for the Mangekyō Sharingan section as it was in this revision: [1] ... Any input, please? —SaiST ^{「talk|contrib」} 16:55, July 20, 2013 (UTC)

Except here's the thing...we've organized the section in a way that all three techniques have their own sub-section if you will, displaying the development of each technique...in regards to Sasuke's final Susanoo...it's most complete version of the technique shown so far, which is why it's on display.

Also the term Sannin, defines two things...group name and an unofficial rank. Darksusanoo (talk) 17:56, July 20, 2013 (UTC)

The detail of each technique's development was left intact in my revision. Only the changes affected by the Eternal Mangekyō Sharingan were partitioned to it's portion of the section. In my opinion, it comes off more coherent to:

• Relay the abilities of his Mangekyō Sharingan.
• How they affected him.
• And how his acquisition of the Eternal Mangekyō Sharingan changed any of that.

It serves to better distinguish his own eyes' power, from what is changed, or gained from exchanging them for Itachi's... Which is also part of the reason I wish to leave the image of Sasuke's older final Susanoo intact; the other part being that it is so underexposed that many are under the impression that Sasuke's Susanoo didn't gain the ability to conjure up Amaterasu's black flames until he took Itachi's eyes. It is, ultimately, a very small matter, but it still bugs the heck out of me. :P

And "Sannin" is never used to identify Jiraiya, Orochimaru, or Tsunade individually. Jiraiya, of course, is referred to as "Sennin", which many fans have mixed up with the term coined for all three of the former teammates for years... —SaiST ^{「talk|contrib」} 18:46, July 20, 2013 (UTC)

Your revision leaves it too far spread to me...and likely most of the other users view it better like it is:

• Denoting the look of the Mangekyo
• Explaning the drawbacks.
• Displaying each technique and their according development.

Sennin is a translation of Sage, which both Jiraiya and Oro are...there is no confusion in that. And yes it is used to identify them, since it was the term that marked their rise to battle fame as shinobi. Darksusanoo (talk) 23:06, July 20, 2013 (UTC)

Arguing over the terms used is pointless. The reason he is referred to as "Sannin" is because he is one of the three. It doesn't matter if they were ever referred to individually as such, though I recall on numerous occasions him being referred to as "one of the three Sannin". Secondly, your revisions are far too spread. It goes into unnecessary detail about the appearance of the Mangekyō, when only a basic, standard description is needed, which is what we have, followed by how the Mangekyō developed; its drawbacks, the techniques Sasuke developed or learned, and what he can do with them. The current revision is detailed just enough to give us an idea on what he can do with it, without it becoming long winded. We don't need to write a book on Sasuke's Mangekyō, just give readers a general idea on what he can do with it. ~ Ten Tailed Fox 00:19, July 21, 2013 (UTC)

Ten Tailed Fox, compared to the current revision, my own possessed approximately 400 less characters. Initially, only around 200 characters were added from my attempted rehaul of the section. The "book", as you say, was already there; my intention was only to rearrange it's contents to avoid the sporadic mention of abilities, and more coincide with the order of events. With that in mind, I'm curious as to why my summary came off as so long winded to you.

"Sannin" = "Three Nin". If you saw any translations depicting any one of them as a Sannin, or "one of the three Sannin", they would be inaccurate. The point of my bringing up "Sennin", which it seems Darksusanoo missed, is that the usage of both terms have been—and are still being mixed up; which is part of the problem. Jiraiya(and Orochimaru) may be a Sennin, but he is not a Sannin. It's a very simple matter, which is why I couldn't help but scratch my head when the correction was reverted. —SaiST ^{「talk|contrib」} 03:03, July 21, 2013 (UTC)

Oh boy, I can see this is going to be a long one. *sigh* Look, the translations aren't wrong, and you're making a big deal out of something that shouldn't be. There are three Sannin, which indeed means "Three Ninja". Orochimrau, Tsunade, and Jiraiya. Any one of those three are still a Sannin. They have always been referred to as such. When Jiraiya was introduced (I have the Viz, I have read the scanalations, and I'm sure we still have ShonenSuki's translation of the RAW Japanese around here somewhere), he is introduced as one of the "three Sannin". So is Tsunade, at one point in time, and I believe even Orochimaru was referred to as "a Sannin". We won't change the term because it means "Three Ninja". It could mean "Ten-Million Ninja" for all we care. It is the name of a group, as well as the title of its three members. Therefore, they are "Sannin", both collectively and individually. I'll say it again, arguing over a specific term gets us nowhere. It doesn't matter if its grammatically correct or not, that is how the series refers to them, that is how the fans refer to them, and that is how we refer to them. Its as simple as that. ~ Ten Tailed Fox 04:09, July 21, 2013 (UTC)

Additionally: The reason your edit seems long winded to me is that most of it was taking time to describe the Mangekyō Sharingan's shape, which I believe, if I remember the Undo correctly, you called an "atom symbol", which is actually less descriptive and more speculative than what we have now. Also, I'm not disputing the fact that your edit was done to make an improvement, but the way we have it now is fine. It lays it out in a flowing order, which is easy to understand, isn't convoluted, and does exactly what the section is intended to do; describe Sasuke's ability. The phrase, "If it ain't broken, don't fix it" comes to mind. ~ Ten Tailed Fox 04:14, July 21, 2013 (UTC)

Very well. My grammar police badge seethes, but you can consider the Sannin matter dropped. Same with the revision, though I'd just like to say that, along with a few other extraneous details, I did omit the mention of his Mangekyō Sharingan's atom resemblance after that Undo; it was something I placed in the description of it's dedicated article beforehand, and decided it would be better left there. Anyways, thank you both for taking the time to explain your side of things. I shall now proceed to find a corner for myself to fiercely pout in. >:I —SaiST ^{「talk|contrib」} 14:10, July 22, 2013 (UTC)

Sasuke's Age

I know 643 is hasn't been added to the wikia yet, but when it is should we change Sasuke's age in Part II to 15-17? Naruto said he was 16 during his fight with Pain, and Obito said tomorrow in 643 is Naruto's birthday, meaning Naruto will be turning 17 tomorrow. If that is the case, Sasuke, who was born before him, should be 17 already right? Omega64 (talk) 06:44, August 18, 2013 (UTC)

Yes that is true but "Do not add new information if the manga chapter is not fully released yet." So yes as you thought, we should wait until the chaoter is fully released and added to the wiki. RainbowShifter 07:05, August 18, 2013 (UTC)

We should update ages of all characters with known birthdays using Naruto's birthday as a template--Elveonora (talk) 12:41, August 18, 2013 (UTC)

But we cannot add it if the chapter in which Naruto's birthday is has not been fully released yet. RainbowShifter 12:45, August 18, 2013 (UTC)

I mean once it's out. I brought this up many times but some people oppose for whatever senile reason they have. If we know x character has birthday 10th October and has another birthday, we know EVERY SINGLE character born before the date has aged as well.--Elveonora (talk) 13:01, August 18, 2013 (UTC)

That would be nearly everyone. Hinata, Lee, Sai and some others excluded. Seelentau 愛^議 13:12, August 18, 2013 (UTC)

Sounds like lots of work for sure, but leaving it not-updated will cause trouble. Like people will think there's more age difference between Naruto and x other character, if we change his to 17 but keep everyone else' the same--Elveonora (talk) 13:25, August 18, 2013 (UTC)

I still don't know if it's a good idea to give ages without databook sources, though. :/ Seelentau 愛^議 13:26, August 18, 2013 (UTC)

I don't know why it shouldn't be while we know it's correct. We may be waiting for 4th databook to come out after another timeskip for all we know or never.--Elveonora (talk) 13:31, August 18, 2013 (UTC)

Because it's against me idea of what should be added to an article and what should not. But on the other hand, it's logical to add it, since Naruto's birthday is Year 0 and even my whole timeline is based on it... How old was Neji when he died? Seelentau 愛^議 13:36, August 18, 2013 (UTC)

I'm of the same mind as Seen for one reason. If we change everyone's ages and then, the databook comes out and somehow we're wrong, then, not only have we been misinforming the users/readers, as you seem to be so concerned of doing now, Elve-kun, but we also have to go back and change them all over again. To me, it makes more sense to use databooks (sans, obviously, Naruto whom "tomorrow" in the manga, we know for sure he's 17) because they give you a straight up age. [Character name] is [this many years old]. There will be no need for us to guess, assume, hope, etc. And a databook is likely to come out. Its not like Kishi is just gonna make three and then go "lol, nope. They're gonna have to suffer through without this one." He'll at least make one more. Since it seems the manga is wrapping up, he may be waiting until closer to the end, or after the end to wrap things up and tie up any remaining loose endings. Then we'd have everyone's definite, final ages. ~ Ten Tailed Fox 13:38, August 18, 2013 (UTC)

There's no way for us to be wrong though, unless Kishimoto has changed birth dates of hundreds of characters. This is children logic and math here, no way to burn ourselves. The thing is, not updating their ages is misinforming as well. Sasuke is older than Naruto, but if we update just the latter's, that will make us lying that it's the other way around. Goes for everyone, let's say Naruto was 3 years older than x character according to 3rd databook, yet a year later, he is suddenly 5 years older, right, that's not misinforming and purposely leaving out information--Elveonora (talk) 13:46, August 18, 2013 (UTC)

Elve, I'm saying its going to make for one big heck of a headache if we just start changing ages. Especially for these anons, like the one on Itachi's page, that think the ages are wrong already. Now all of a sudden we're trying to guess ages, and pray to God we're right, when we only know Sasuke and Naruto for sure (I'll give you Sasuke since we saw him as infant prior to Naruto's birth). It would make more sense to go off a concrete source, like a databook, rather than change everyone's ages and pray to all that is good and holy that we did something right. ~ Ten Tailed Fox 13:53, August 18, 2013 (UTC)

"tear drop" I'm not saying otherwise, we can go by 3rd databook's ages and just add 1 year to everyone born prior to October 10--Elveonora (talk) 13:56, August 18, 2013 (UTC)

Bump, this one seriously needs concludin' --Elveonora (talk) 17:38, August 19, 2013 (UTC)

Age

According to chapter 643, Naruto's birthday is the next day. Since Sasuke is a few months older than Naruto, isn't Sasuke already 17? --Kakashi Namikaze (retired) - talk 17:20, August 18, 2013 (UTC)

Yes.--Cerez365^™(talk) 17:53, August 18, 2013 (UTC)

So should it be added? I will go ahead and do it. And shouldn't Naruto's be added if this is the case, seeming as the whole chapter is now out. RainbowShifter 18:19, August 18, 2013 (UTC)

What and why? ~ UltimateSupreme 18:23, August 18, 2013 (UTC)

Well we now know Sasuke and Naruto are 17 according to this chapter... Therefore should it be added to the infobox? RainbowShifter 18:32, August 18, 2013 (UTC)

More precisely, we know it's October 10th in Narutoverse.--Elveonora (talk) 18:41, August 18, 2013 (UTC)

Same thing. RainbowShifter 19:09, August 18, 2013 (UTC)

Unless we're only getting the age from databooks, I see no problem with adding it. Joshbl56 20:21, August 19, 2013 (UTC)

Agreed as to Naruto and Sasuke; but only when the chapter comes out for the "next day" in the manga world. As currently, its the night of October 9th; so only Sasuke is 17. Any other characters, leave their ages alone until a databook comes out. ~ Ten Tailed Fox 20:54, August 19, 2013 (UTC)

Technically, knowing the date and the age of one character, it does mean he can stipulate the age of some other characters. Pretty much every one from Naruto's year can have their age updated if necessary, every person who we know the age difference from Naruto and the birthday can have it. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 22:47, August 19, 2013 (UTC)

^That is true. Just a quick check shows that most of the rookie 9 and team Guy could have their age updated if we do this. Joshbl56 23:45, August 19, 2013 (UTC)

@Omni: I know that. I'm not saying Elve is wrong, I actually agree that several characters have aged. I'm just really wanting to be cautious about tampering with ages. Especially since lately, the number of anon we've had around here trying to change ages (Itachi's being prime example) based of some absurd forum conjecture has been high lately and its likely to start those debates all over again. ~ Ten Tailed Fox 00:38, August 20, 2013 (UTC)

You're right. The thing is, I raised Sasuke in particular because Kushina's flashback confirmed that Sasuke was born before Naruto, so that is a given. But consistency too is important. --Kakashi Namikaze - talk 14:11, August 20, 2013 (UTC)