Talk:Rinnegan

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Ashura + Indra = Rinnegan

According to the latest chapter, you need specifically the chakra of Indra and Ashura to combine in order to get the Rinnegan, which means you have to be a reincarnation of either of those two to be able to get it, I guess we should add that to the article. --Chrillbill (talk) 14:32, April 2, 2014 (UTC)

Aye. What I'm wondering about is, do you still need the Mangekyo Sharingan? Seelentau 愛^議 14:43, April 2, 2014 (UTC)

So this is why Obito hasn't gotten his own Rinnegan, I suppose, nor Danzo--Elveonora (talk) 20:33, April 2, 2014 (UTC)

Obito hasn't gotten Rinnegan yet because he hasn't. Madara only awakened Rinnegan in his advanced age, and he raised the point that for this reason Obito probably wouldn't awaken it. The descendents of both clans have Indra's and Ashura's chakra though, its just the reincarnations do to a far greater extent. Skarrj (talk) 20:44, April 2, 2014 (UTC)

Na, there's a difference between being a descendant of Indra and being his reincarnation. Seelentau 愛^議 20:53, April 2, 2014 (UTC)

They aren't even literal reincarnations or are they? Only the chakras get passed on, not their souls. Otherwise it would be impossible for there to be both Madara&Sasuke and Hashirama&Naruto at once.--Elveonora (talk) 21:06, April 2, 2014 (UTC)

I don't know the specifics on the real world definition of reincarnation, but this chapter made it very clear that to get the Rinnegan, one specifically needs the chakra of Indra and Asura, who from time to time are reincarnated. If they were to suddenly reincarnate in two other random clans, and a similar cell implanting happened, Rinnegan would pop up. It has nothing to do with actually being blood related to Hagoromo. And remember, in the wise, wise words of TU3: "chakra is screwy". Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 21:39, April 2, 2014 (UTC)

Real world definition of reincarnation means to be reborn again after the passing of your current physical vessel with your soul being given another one to occupy, like you get killed or "die" of old age and a second later you just wake up in a newborn baby, meaning it's immediate. We were told only chakras of Ashura and Indra get passed on, so they aren't literal reincarnations, more like inheritors of power. If it were a real incarnation, then there would be no Madara and Hashirama to be revived with Edo Tensei since they would be Sasuke and Naruto at the time. For chakra is screwy, I don't think it's to be taken literary. If that were, then all Orochimaru would have had to do was to absorb some chakra from both Naruto and Sasuke and hurray!!! The Rinnegan.... there wouldn't be a reason for him to go through decades of genetic experiments. To me it's obvious the chakras of Ashura and Indra get passed on only to their blood descendants, because they genetically have a portion/watered down version of said chakras already. If it were any different, then we would have Inuzuka and Aburame with powers of Ashura and Indra--Elveonora (talk) 10:15, April 3, 2014 (UTC)

Well, chakra is in fact screwy.--TheUltimate3 ^(talk) 12:11, April 3, 2014 (UTC)

The physical body creates more chakra. So even if Orochimaru or Madara as examples got hands on both chakras of Ashura and Indra, getting the Rinnegan, it would be only temporarily and gone the moment they would have spent up the said chakra, or not? Meaning a piece of body indeed is required, to continuously create the chakras--Elveonora (talk) 12:20, April 3, 2014 (UTC)

Power to See One's Life-Force

In chapter 672, Madara was able to see the life-force of Might Guy flickering out. Later, Naruto, using the power of the Sage of Six Paths, targeted that same point to save Guy's life. This should be added to Madara and the Rinnegan's page. Steveo920, 16:14, April 9, 2014

That was just chakra not life-force. Also it mustn't even meant that Madara saw it, could have been Kishimoto showing us.--Elveonora (talk) 20:16, April 9, 2014 (UTC)

Madara was plainly talking a key point on Guy. Steveo920, 16:20, April 9, 2014

Looks exactly like what he saw when Guy opened the last gate, which was chakra. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 20:30, April 9, 2014 (UTC)

Madara: "From the chakra around your heart's pressure point, I can see that the next attack will be your last". No life force mentioned.--JOA20 (talk) 20:32, April 9, 2014 (UTC)

Differing appearance..

There is two known Rinnegan.. the one that has the tomoe seals which the Shinju, Kaguya and Sasuke have and the one that Hagoromo and Madara have. Anybody have any clue what the actual differences between the two are? ItachiWasAHero (talk) 09:06, April 16, 2014 (UTC)

The problem is that both are called Rinnegan, while the Tomoe-Rinnegan is also called Sharingan. Other than that (and the Tomoe), there's no apparent difference shown yet. Seelentau 愛^議 09:29, April 16, 2014 (UTC)

This is so confusing... so Kaguya's Rinnegan+Sharingan is called Sharingan and Sasuke's Rinnegan+Sharingan is called Rinnegan. Kishi is playing fools with us--Elveonora (talk) 13:50, April 16, 2014 (UTC)

Hahaha well yes kishi is lol, but anyways will there be a pic added of the kinds of rinnegan on this page? Munchvtec (talk) 14:03, April 16, 2014 (UTC)

A Rinnegan is always a Sharingan, but a Sharingan isn't always a Rinnegan. I'd just describe how Sasuke gained the Rinnegan, that it's like a fusion of Rinnegan and Sharingan and that it was called Sharingan by Hagoromo earlier. Everything else is speculation and should be kept out of the article, as usual. • Seelentau 愛^議 14:05, April 16, 2014 (UTC)

But to be more specific, the tomoe rinnegan only appears in a single eye,(one eyed Jubi, third eye of Kaguya, and now Sasuke), while the Rinnegan awakened for both eyes are the purplish tomoe less ones. But still strange, Kaguya's hyper-super eye was considered as a sharingan, and Sasuke's a rinnegan. Gerisama (talk) 16:29, April 16, 2014 (UTC)Gerisama

I believe the difference stems from the manner of acquisition. Madara's eyes evolved over time and exposure to Hashirama's chakra, whereas this "perfect" version of Kaguya's and Sasuke's was achieved by taking in the Ten-tails fruit or gifted to by the Ten-Tails host (my theory being that the Sage of Six Paths they encountered outside of natural time would still have some of the beasts' chakra). I'm sure they're almost identical in effect and ability, but i'm sure there will be a significant difference between a Natural Rinnegan and Nurtured Rinnegan. Shadowfox337 (talk) 17:45, April 16, 2014 (UTC)

Another difference would be is that the Rinnegan that Kaguya, Juubi, and Sasuke was shown too be red in colour on volume cover for volume 64 instead of the normal purple that the regular version has

That should probably listed in the article as well since it isn't mentioned that there's different color variations for the Rinnegan.--Thdyingbreed (talk) 18:10, April 16, 2014 (UTC)

I say we simply stop trying to make sense of things. Kaguya's eye was called a Sharingan, we call it Sharingan where it concerns her, Sasuke's eye was called a Rinnegan, we call it Rinnegan where it concerns him. What I want to know, is that do we call Shinju's eye now. We decided to call it Sharingan because its eye was the same as Kaguya's, and hers was called a Sharinga, but now there's another possibility and no concrete comparison in-universe. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 05:13, April 17, 2014 (UTC)

what I'm wondering is, who called kaguya third eye sharingan? Cause i dont remember anyone or statement saying she had sharingan. Now she does have the powers of sharingan.. Sasuke new eye looks not similiar but exactly like Kaguya's third eye. Knowing that sasuke has the power of sharingan and rinnegan with his new it will probably be safe to say the same for kaguya.--Ankhael (talk) 03:15, April 18, 2014 (UTC)

Kaguya was said to have the Sharingan's power, not the Sharingan eye. Her eye likely allows the usage of Sharingan abilities, but it still seems to be the same eye as the Rinnegan. Xfing (talk) 19:00, April 21, 2014 (UTC)

Xfing, please observe the chronological order of the replies. And no. The term used in the raw was douryuko, which has long been considered a synonym with doujutsu. So she has Sharingan, that is clear as day. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 17:56, April 22, 2014 (UTC)

I believe Seel's response to this was that every Rinnegan is a Sharingan. Therefore stating that a Rinnegan user has the Sharingan isn't wrong. So Kaguya having had the Sharingan doesn't exclude having the Rinnegan as well--Elveonora (talk) 18:01, April 22, 2014 (UTC)

At least one editor read what I said. :D • Seelentau 愛^議 18:04, April 22, 2014 (UTC)

Reading is something, agreeing is another. Your argument is that as the Rinnegan is the final stage of the Sharingan, every Rinnegan user is by extension a Sharingan user. That falls because as far as we know, Hagoromo never had the Sharingan. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 19:34, April 22, 2014 (UTC)

Indra was born with "his father's eyes". Indra had the Sharingan. --JOA20 (talk) 19:37, April 22, 2014 (UTC)

@Omni, just because a character isn't known to have used X doesn't mean he/she can't use X. Tobirama is yet to use Edo Tensei on screen too, yet we know he made it and used it in the past. We know the Rinnegan is also a Sharingan by extension, so yes, Hagoromo also had the Sharingan--Elveonora (talk) 19:40, April 22, 2014 (UTC)

@JOA20 "His father's eyes" = "he has doujutsu". Indra had a Sharingan, not a Rinnegan. Even in the "every Rinnegan is a Sharingan" argument, that doesn't mean "every Sharingan is a Rinnegan". Sage was always known by the Rinnegan, not Sharingan. Knowing and using a jutsu is much simpler than having an ever-complicated working-er dojutsu. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 20:07, April 22, 2014 (UTC)

And the Rinnegan is but Sharingan with an extra layer of flavor on top of it. Please explain, how could he have had the Rinnegan without having the Sharingan too. The Rinnegan is everything that the Sharingan is but more.--Elveonora (talk) 20:16, April 22, 2014 (UTC)

I fully agree with Elveonora. Hagoromo probably has access to the Sharingan. It hasn't been shown in the manga, and it shouldn't be listed under the Kekkei Genkai section (not that anyone suggested that, but Elveonora seems to imply so). That's would make us look like headless Naruto fans. Plus, it'd be connecting the dots. Same logic with Kaguya, she has the Byakugan and Sharingan, NOT the Rinnegan (unless later stated otherwise). BTW, you guys should stop whining about the "Power of the Sharingan." She was clearly shown to have the Sharingan eye on her forehead, and the raw stated it was the eye itself. Though it may be exactly like Sasuke's and the Shinju's eyes, the manga stated Sasuke's was a Rinnegan (and if you look at the chapter 674 raw that leaked, his eye is looking more like the Rinnegan we're accustomed to seeing, it's losing tomoe!) and Kaguya's was a Sharingan. Things that look alike do not mean that they are the same (again, unless stated otherwise). So far, Kaguya doesn't have a Rinnegan. The Shinju doesn't have a Rinnegan. Sasuke does. Stop making a big damn deal out of this "Power of the Sharingan" notion. It's pure nonsense, ridiculous and downright stupid. Kishimoto-sensei may have confused us, but that is how he made things, and we should follow suit, not make stupid assumptions and overanalyze things. WindStar7125 (talk) 21:34, April 22, 2014 (UTC) WindStar7125

Kaguya and the Juubi should be listed as users.

Since the Sasuke's eye has been confirmed too be the Rinnegan Kaguya and the Juubi should be listed as well since they share the same eye.--Thdyingbreed (talk) 18:25, April 16, 2014 (UTC)

The respective topics are still going, we will have to think this through first.--Elveonora (talk) 18:26, April 16, 2014 (UTC)

"Switching" Speculation

"While the powers of the Rinnegan remain intact upon implanting them into a new person, like Nagato and Obito, only one who "naturally" manifests the Rinnegan, as in Madara's case, is able to switch between the Rinnegan and Eternal Mangekyō Sharingan; otherwise, the Rinnegan is always activated."

The sentence above is pure speculation. It is never stated once that only those who "naturally" manifests the Rinnegan can switch between it and the Sharingan. That is pure speculation. Madara has shown to switch his eyes, however it has never been stated that any other person with it was unable to switch it, it was never shown, which could be due to any number of reasons (such as them feeling the Rinnegan was [truthfully] the most powerful choice). That would be the equivalent of stating that a character CANNOT use a chakra nature, just because they have not been shown to use it (which we would never due, we would just leave it blank and only fill it in if information has been given). The policies on this site are very clear that unless the information has been outright stated or confirmed, which this is not, it should NEVER be included in the article. Dragon Hacker (talk) 03:39, April 18, 2014 (UTC)

Changed it to say only Madara has been seen deactivating the Rinnegan. While unlikely, we don't know if Nagato and Obito could or not, so we shouldn't say either way.--BeyondRed (talk) 04:07, April 18, 2014 (UTC)

Hear me out

Although Nagato had Madara's Rinnegan... I think I know the reason Obito called him the Third Six Paths. He was an Uzumaki and was Edo Tensei'ed WITH the Rinnegan, as if the Kekkei Genkei was in his blood the same way Itachi had the Mangekyo in his blood, so I believe although initially the eyes were transplanted to him from Madara they actually helped him awaken his OWN Rinnegan since the eyes had Uchiha DNA. Therefor although he had Madara's Rinnegan in his head it also helped him awaken his own Rinnegan in his blood, so if he had lost Madara's eyes and transplanted Random Sharingan eyes or maybe even another pair of normal eyes, then those eyes would be able to transform into his own Rinnegan eyes. That is why Madara is the Second Six Paths and he is the Third Six Paths. Also, would Sasuke be called the Fourth Six Paths since he awakened the "One-Eyed Rinnegan"?? ItachiWasAHero (talk) 14:31, April 25, 2014 (UTC)

The Impure World Reincarnation brings you back just as you were at the moment of death, unless modified afterwards. When Nagato died, he had the Rinnegan, thus he was revived with the Rinnegan. Same reason why Itachi was revived with his eyes, despite Sasuke having them.--TheUltimate3 ^(talk) 16:57, April 25, 2014 (UTC)

To be honest, I don't think either of us really knows how exactly Edo Tensei works and it irks me to behold that some of us pretend otherwise.--Elveonora (talk) 18:26, April 25, 2014 (UTC)

Edo Tensei, and many other jutsu, work as the plot needs them to work. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 14:24, April 26, 2014 (UTC)

new teleportation technique

shouldn't this technique be created? Sasuke can teleport objects and himself within a certain distance?--AsianInvasion711 (talk) 04:14, April 28, 2014 (UTC)

I think we should hold off since we don't know all the details yet. We know absolutely nothing about his method of teleportation, so we should probably just wait a chapter or 2 and then create the page with what we know, because at this point it would barely constituate a sentence. Skarrj (talk) 05:37, April 28, 2014 (UTC)

This may sound crazy

Madara and Obito should be listed with all of Nagato's Rinnegan techniques.

Madara had the dōjutsu and the Gedō Mazō for a unknown amount of time he must have learned a plethora of things before implanting the eyes into Nagato. We know Obito is Madara's apprentice, he must have passed on some of this knowledge to Obito. He's the only person that could have trained Nagato how to properly wield the Rinnegan, and the plan original was for Nagato to ultimately revive Madara.

On a side Madara should be listed for the Sealing Technique: Phantom Dragons Nine Consuming Seals technique, i believe he passed it on to Obito to teach Nagato how to seal the tailed beast into the Gedō Mazō. (Kuroiraikou (talk) 18:47, April 29, 2014 (UTC))

Not quite. First, the way Madara pulled the tailed beasts back into the statue, it was not with the ethereal dragons, it was with chakra chains, that had a clothespin-like end, which vaguely made them look like dragon heads. Second, no. Look back to when we first saw Nagato summon the statue, chronologically, when Yahiko died. When he deflected the kunai and shuriken from the Ame-nin, he seemed to do that pretty instinctively. While I'm certain that Madara passed knowledge to Obito, and Obito in turn did the same to Nagato, we can't be certain of what, because Nagato has done at least two things, seemingly on his own, before any instruction. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 20:01, April 29, 2014 (UTC)

New Rinnegan sections?

It would be appropriate to add sections like "Rinnegan Variations" and "Rinnegan forms" like this wiki did with the Mangekyo Sharingan article with its different versions, right? Now that we know Sasuke's Rinnegan is red... WindStar7125 (talk) 19:59, May 19, 2014 (UTC) WindStar7125

I second this- Sasuke's Rinnegan is obviously very different now (to be honest, I wish it was purple instead of red). --KirinNOTKarin98 (talk) 20:01, May 19, 2014 (UTC)

I foresee a lot of exhausting back and forth discussion regarding who has what now. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 20:13, May 19, 2014 (UTC)

Do you agree with me and Kirin or naw? WindStar7125 (talk) 20:30, May 19, 2014 (UTC) WindStar7125

I don't know. With MS, they have always been different among themselves. The Rinnegan, Madara and Hagoromo have the exact same. Sasuke being the different one (not counting whatever other users others will want to have listed) seems to be the exception, not the rule. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 20:54, May 19, 2014 (UTC)

I say no. Not until we know more. This new Rinnegan of Sasuke's is clearly special and Kishi is paying a lot of attention to it recently, so we're sure to get more information on it soon. Just wait until then. No need to go creating wild new sections based on the speculation of the fanbase. ~ Ten Tailed Fox 20:57, May 19, 2014 (UTC)

Can we at least create a .svg image for Sasuke's Rinnegan? In the infobox on Sasuke's page, it is still the purple variant, and we know it is red with 9 tomoe. WindStar7125 (talk) 21:09, May 19, 2014 (UTC) WindStar7125

I don't see why we should. Its not like the Mangekyō Sharingan where each user has a unique design. Like Omnibender already stated, Madara and Hagoromo had the exact same Rinnegan, and Sasuke is the exception to the rule. I'd support that if Madara, Hagoromo, and Sasuke all had different Rinnegan, but I'm not in support of doing that just because one of the three is an anomaly. ~ Ten Tailed Fox 21:12, May 19, 2014 (UTC)

(edit conflict) There's already an svg image for what we currently call the Ten-Tails' eye. Besides, the number of tomoe in Sasuke's Rinnegan is already inconsistent, in the first chapter it appeared, it had 9, and now it has 6. Besides, having specific versions appearing in character infoboxes requires careful infobox tinkering. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 21:13, May 19, 2014 (UTC)

Nine tomoe was only for one panel though, it had six in another panel that chapter. Likely a mistake, just like Naruto having 11 Gudodama for a single panel. Doesn't change how inconsistent the Shinju's eye is though.--BeyondRed (talk) 21:26, May 19, 2014 (UTC)

I say wait a bit, but I wouldn't argue against it being added either. I'm weird.--TheUltimate3 ^(talk) 22:05, May 19, 2014 (UTC)

That one panel was an extreme close-up that specifically focused on Sasuke's new Rinnegan, so it is highly unlikely that the tomoe in the third circle was a drawing error, which is what is being used to explain the other supposed 'inconsistencies' with the number of tomoe (really, we'd all be better off waiting for Kishimoto to explain the mechanics behind Sasuke's eye before we all jump to conclusions about the changing number of tomoe in Sasuke's Rinnegan).MJ (talk) 23:18, May 24, 2014 (UTC)

Sasuke's Rinnegan has nine tomoe like Kaguya's Sharingan and the Shinju's eye. The Shinju had the same inconsistencies. We should probably use the Ten-Tails eye .svg image in Sasuke's infobox, at the least. WindStar7125 (talk) 22:25, May 19, 2014 (UTC) WindStar7125

I agree with Windstar. Also I think your reasoning is poor Ten Tailed Fox. Even if some people had different Mangekyōs if one or two peoples' varied I would think that .svg files should be made to identify that. So even though Sasuke is the only one with a different Rinnegan right now I still think he needs his own .svg file which another user has uploaded anyway. Does it take time for it to show up in infoboxes? All the recent developments regarding dōjutsu have been getting complicated. Thanks Kishimoto. Banan14kab 11:56, May 24, 2014 (UTC)

You ask questions to which answers have been given multiple times. I'm exhausted of explaining them, look them up. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 20:05, May 24, 2014 (UTC)

Tomoe on Sasuke's Rinnegan

Why exactly does Sasuke's Rinnegan have six tomoe? Does it not have nine? I know it's been shown many times that Sasuke's Rinnegan has six, but the Ten-Tails initially had the same inconsistencies as well. WindStar7125 (talk) 21:41, May 24, 2014 (UTC) WindStar7125

-removed- This panel shows] the third ring has tomoe too. It'd be more accurate to use the normal Juubi eye picture. "Demons run when a good man goes to war." (talk) 00:27, May 25, 2014 (UTC)

No links please. Once the volume is out, we will know for sure I suppose.--Elveonora (talk) 11:16, May 25, 2014 (UTC)

Sasuke's Rinnegan will be on the volume cover? Where did you get that information? WindStar7125 (talk) 14:17, May 25, 2014 (UTC) WindStar7125

I didn't, it may be tho. Also I wasn't talking about the cover specifically, but the panel where the eye is shown with 9 tomoe. If that will be kept for volume release, then yes, Sasuke's Rinnegan also has had 9 but 3 have vanished or something ._.--Elveonora (talk) 16:14, May 25, 2014 (UTC)

Like I said, the Shinju had the same inconsistencies, yet we know it has nine tomoe in its eye. WindStar7125 (talk) 16:41, May 25, 2014 (UTC) WindStar7125

Perhaps I'm just blind but every single panel I've seen of Sasuke's Rinnegan from the very start has had six tomoe. So... yeah. Unless anyone can point to me a specific instance where there's nine, I'm pretty sure there's always been six. ~ Ten Tailed Fox 17:01, May 25, 2014 (UTC)

Ten Tailed Fox, check the last page of chapter 673. WindStar7125 (talk) 17:58, May 25, 2014 (UTC) WindStar7125

Ah, thank you. Well, after seeing that, I'd say, in Sasuke's case, the nine tomoe variant is a mistake. Every single other drawing of it, including its first appearance in the chapter you mentioned, WindStar, depicts six tomoe. ~ Ten Tailed Fox 18:04, May 25, 2014 (UTC)

That's why I'm curious if that will be fixed in volume release--Elveonora (talk) 20:02, May 25, 2014 (UTC)

@ Ten Tailed Fox: That one panel was an extreme close-up that specifically focused on Sasuke's new Rinnegan, so it is in my opinion quite unlikely that the tomoe in the third circle was a drawing error. MJ (talk) 21:52, May 25, 2014 (UTC)

And that's why you're wrong. Just because its focused, doesn't mean anything. We've now seen three or four chapters with Sasuke's new Rinnegan and six tomoe has been displayed consistently in every singular instance of its appearance with the exception of that one. So, unless that is changed in the volume release, then, regardless of what you think, the nine tomoe variant is a drawing error. ~ Ten Tailed Fox 22:08, May 25, 2014 (UTC)

Get off your high horse. There's a reason I said it was my opinion. It being focused means that it is likely extra attention to detail was paid to his eye in that panel. 6 tomoe has never been consistently displayed in every singular instance. Or have you forgotten ch.674 where there were no tomoe present at all in some instances? In some panels, Sasuke's eye displays 4-5 tomoe (ch.676, pp8; ch.677, pp4), because his eyelids are only open enough to display some of the tomoe. As it stands, the only two instances where we got a clear enough display of all three circles, one had tomoe in the third circle, one had no tomoe at all. If I am wrong, which I obviously could be, then that's fine. Waiting for the Tankobon version is the ideal way to resolve this issue though. Any idea when that will be released? MJ (talk) 00:14, May 26, 2014 (UTC)

A volume consists of about 10 chapters, so soon.--Elveonora (talk) 10:20, May 26, 2014 (UTC)

A couple of months maybe? D.Phoenix (talk) 17:20, May 26, 2014 (UTC)