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== Revival...? ==
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== new cursed seal technique ==
   
I didin't understand very well that thing about "revival"...Orochimaru "injects" some part of his consciousness into the ones he bites with his juinjutsu and then that "piece of his mind" takes his form with the flesh of the host ?--[[Special:Contributions/177.33.246.101|177.33.246.101]] ([[User talk:177.33.246.101|talk]]) 23:20, July 13, 2012 (UTC)
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An article for it perhaps? Pretty similar to Danzo's--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 14:45, February 5, 2014 (UTC)
   
You know as much as we do ... likely Voldemort style--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 23:27, July 13, 2012 (UTC)
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:It can easily be mentioned [[Orochimaru's Juinjutsu|here]]. Not sure if an entirely new article is necessary.--[[User:TheUltimate3|'''TheUltimate3''']] [[File:Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg|20px]][[User Talk:TheUltimate3| <sup>(talk)</sup>]] 15:00, February 5, 2014 (UTC)
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::Well, that refers purely to mutant-reject seals no jutsu, this is immobilize seal no jutsu.--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 15:11, February 5, 2014 (UTC)
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:::/shrug. Same thing. He extends neck and puts on seal. What the seal does eh probably depends on what he wants.--[[User:TheUltimate3|'''TheUltimate3''']] [[File:Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg|20px]][[User Talk:TheUltimate3| <sup>(talk)</sup>]] 15:16, February 5, 2014 (UTC)
   
== just random question ==
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== New introductions ==
   
At least in the anime (I don't remember it in the manga) when Oro was about to suck Sasuke's neck to give him the Curse Mark, his face appeared all fucked up, any idea as of why?--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 21:46, July 19, 2012 (UTC)
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I noticed that a large majority of character's intros have been changed completely on the wiki. Personally I feel that the previous introductions were much better compared to these new ones. They were more informative, more specific and more like a personal biography introduction. This new introductions are simply awful... And need to be carefully revised and re-written.
   
When he was still posing as Shiore and his face-mask was ruined?--'''[[User:NinjaSheik|<span style="color:#FBEC5D;">Ninja</span>]][[User talk:NinjaSheik|<span style="color:#87CEFA;">Sheik</span>]]''' 21:55, July 19, 2012 (UTC)
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[[User:Pecnut|Pecnut]] ([[User talk:Pecnut|talk]]) 20:33, February 15, 2014 (UTC)
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:Noticed the same thing--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 14:44, February 16, 2014 (UTC)
   
[http://img.tokyobase.net/forums/customavatars/avatar106273_4.gif like this] and [http://www.naruto-kun.com/images/info/jutsus/23.jpg this]--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 22:04, July 19, 2012 (UTC)
 
   
Hmm... I don't really remember the fight all too well, but wasn't those images just part of something Sasuke imagined. Or was it in one of his dreams? Don't remember.--'''[[User:NinjaSheik|<span style="color:#FBEC5D;">Ninja</span>]][[User talk:NinjaSheik|<span style="color:#87CEFA;">Sheik</span>]]''' 22:08, July 19, 2012 (UTC)
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Honestly, who on earth changed them? They're so terrible. [[User:Pecnut|Pecnut]] ([[User talk:Pecnut|talk]]) 15:38, February 16, 2014 (UTC)
   
It appeared a second before Sasuke's neck got bitten by Oro--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 22:13, July 19, 2012 (UTC)
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Are you saying that Orochimaru's introduction is bad? If you are, then don't make generalisations about '''all''' of the intro's. The wikia is an on-going project, so that means of course we arent going to get everything perfect, and there will be some disagreements about the way we deal with certain aspects of it. Instead of complaining and calling '''ANY''' part of the wikia bad or "''terrible''" then actually do what you're supposed to do as an editor and edit it.--'''NaviiGator''' <small>''('''A.K.A.'''KotoSenju)''</small><sup><small>[[user talk: Koto Senju|Talk Page]]-[[Special:Contributions/Koto Senju|My Contributions]]</small></sup> 19:30, February 16, 2014 (UTC)
   
Then it has to be his imagination in middle of fear, seeing as Oro as a real demon coming after him. Probably added in the anime for dramatic effect, if you ask me.--'''[[User:NinjaSheik|<span style="color:#FBEC5D;">Ninja</span>]][[User talk:NinjaSheik|<span style="color:#87CEFA;">Sheik</span>]]''' 22:18, July 19, 2012 (UTC)
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If this is not an issue with Orochimaru's specifically then you need to start a forum about it.--[[User:Cerez365|Cerez<small>365</small><sup>™</sup>]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 19:37, February 16, 2014 (UTC)
   
It's exactly for that reason Sheik. The face seems modelled after an oni as well (I don't know if you guys follow Avatar) but a yokai that is said to steal the faces of people. Nothing more.--[[User:Cerez365|Cerez<small>365</small><sup>™</sup>]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 11:56, July 20, 2012 (UTC)
 
   
Makes sense, thanks for answer.--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 14:57, July 20, 2012 (UTC)
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I'm talking about all the introductions that have been changed. The previous ones were much better, I'm not saying everything has to be perfect but your aim is to make everything better and as informative as possible. I just feel (and I'm sure many others do too) that the previous introductions were much better. If you ask me, I think you should change them back. These new introductions are just plain bad. If it was down to me, I'd keep the old intros but of course I'd be penalised for doing so. [[User:Pecnut|Pecnut]] ([[User talk:Pecnut|talk]]) 20:33, February 16, 2014 (UTC)
   
== His height? ==
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:The changes were pirmarily done by Snapper2, in an effort to make the introductions, well more like introductions and less like "TL;DR summaries of the entire article". I don't disagree that that to that end, the introductions need work, otherwise why not just actually have a "Summary" section at the top of the pages and leave the intros as "This is X".--[[User:TheUltimate3|'''TheUltimate3''']] [[File:Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg|20px]][[User Talk:TheUltimate3| <sup>(talk)</sup>]] 20:41, February 16, 2014 (UTC)
   
Sorry, but why is orochimaru's height decreased? in part 1 it's 179,4 cm and in part 2 it's decreased to 172 cm? are you sure it's not wrong? it's really strange that someone's height is shortened...
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I want to analyze the old intro:
eh, sorry. the weight too?
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::''served as the central antagonist for the majority of the series during Part I but later became a secondary antagonist during Part II''
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:Out-of-universe, which the MOS and usual practice avoids. Also leads to meaningless discussions about who the "main" antagonist is.
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::''Recognised as one of the most powerful ninja [[Konohagakure]] ever produced and one of the {{translation|"'''Three Legendary Shinobi'''"|伝説の三忍|Densetsu no [[Sannin]]}}''
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:Kept in the new.
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::''he operated as an [[ANBU]] [[shinobi]] within the [[Root]] faction''
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:Relatively new information that has little application to his overall role in the series. Is also some desperate attempt to list his rank, which is more than accomplished by "Sannin".
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::''prior to his defection from the village in pursuit of his own self-serving ambitions''
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:Kept in the new.
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::''Initially [[Sword of Totsuka|sealed]] away during the battle between [[Sasuke]] and [[Itachi Uchiha]] by the latter''
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:This was added when it was thought he was dead...
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::''he was later [[Evil Unsealing Method|reconstituted]] by the former using his own genetic material that was within his successor [[Kabuto Yakushi]] and a copy of consciousness he stored within [[Anko Mitarashi]]'s [[Cursed Seal of Heaven]].''
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:... and this was added when it was revealed it he wasn't dead. So you've got a whole sentence with about seven irrelevant links that take you in a nice circle of Orochimaru being dead but wait no he isn't. And what does this add?
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Is the new intro great? I guess not. But it would be better to improve it rather than cling to the problems of the old one. '''''~[[User:Snapper2|Snapper]][[User talk:Snapper2|T]][[Special:Contributions/Snapper2|o]]''''' 20:36, February 27, 2014 (UTC)
   
virgo dandela --[[Special:Contributions/180.254.117.108|180.254.117.108]] ([[User talk:180.254.117.108|talk]]) 12:56, August 5, 2012 (UTC)
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== Dual Weild ==
:They would've changed because he switched bodies at the end of part 1. [[User:TricksterKing|TricksterKing]] ([[User talk:TricksterKing|talk]]) 13:02, August 5, 2012 (UTC)
 
   
The creepy chick body was taller that the guy body.--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 13:52, August 5, 2012 (UTC)
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I remember somewhere it showed a quick flashback pic of orochimaru with two swords strapped to his back in the manga, I don't remember when though. If someone remembers then could it be added to his abilities section? [[User:Munchvtec|Munchvtec]] ([[User talk:Munchvtec|talk]]) 16:48, February 19, 2014 (UTC)
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: Chapter 50. --<font size="4"><span style='color: Goblin'><font face="Old English Text MT">''''' [[User talk:Aged Goblin|The Talk]] [[User:Aged Goblin|Goblin]]'''''</font></span></font> 16:57, February 19, 2014 (UTC)
   
== sealed by totsuka... ==
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Alright so could it be added? [[User:Munchvtec|Munchvtec]] ([[User talk:Munchvtec|talk]]) 17:00, February 19, 2014 (UTC)
   
Some articles (Kusanagi Sword included) state that Orochimaru had been sealed by Itachi before being revived by Sasuke. That's incorrect, he had escaped such fate and got burnt by Amaterasu.--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 16:57, August 10, 2012 (UTC)
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I just added it a few minutes ago, could someone put a ref I don't exactly know how? thanks [[User:Munchvtec|Munchvtec]] ([[User talk:Munchvtec|talk]]) 17:14, February 19, 2014 (UTC)
:Which is speculation. We know he got stabbed by sealing sword. We don't know what the hell that snake was. It could be as you said, it could be foreshadowing that there was a way he could be brought back. We don't know anything about the snake. We do know what Itachi's sword can do.--[[User:TheUltimate3|'''TheUltimate3''']] [[File:Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg|20px]][[User Talk:TheUltimate3| <sup>(talk)</sup>]] 17:03, August 10, 2012 (UTC)
 
::When it comes to Orochimaru's life it's all up in the air. It is in fact true that we have no idea what those snakes would have gone on to do, but people speculate that he would have been revived through one of them which is not unbelievable, still, as it is now, he was sealed by the sword.--[[User:Cerez365|Cerez<small>365</small><sup>™</sup>]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 17:05, August 10, 2012 (UTC)
 
   
Speculation is saying he got sealed, as later manga chapters and logic disprove such. There would be no reason to draw panels with snakes escaping and getting killed if it were just random/generic snakes/summons. It was obviously Orochimaru escaping the sealing, for further detail http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/User_talk:Elveonora#Re:_Kusanagi_-_Oro_edit and http://naruto.wikia.com/wiki/User_talk:TheUltimate3#Kusanagi_-_Oro_edit --[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 17:13, August 10, 2012 (UTC)
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I'm not sure if a silhouette from 600+ chapters back is any indication of dual-wielding. We are yet to see him use two blades at once--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 17:53, February 19, 2014 (UTC)
   
1) Yes.
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== his "Sagehood" and related stuff ==
2) Speculation on my part, but it explains why he didn't need to use the Releasing Method to pop out of the seal.
 
3) Indeed. Because Sealed in permanent genjutsu = deader than dead.
 
4) And Orochimaru had his consciousness alive and well in Anko's seal. How else would he be aware of everything that Anko is aware of in respects to the war if he was chillin in dead world all this time?
 
5) And you know this how?
 
6) Kishimoto doesn't make many things obvious. It seems obvious to you because it helps reach a conclusion that makes sense to you. When you are forced to look at things objectively, you are left with more questions than answers, hence it's not certain
 
   
* at least on something you agree with me
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Okay, I think it should be looked at again. Seelentau, can you please assist us with this, what exactly word by word did Kabuto say? And if Orochimaru isn't a Sage, how come does/did he have Senjutsu chakra and can absorb Senjutsu chakra without side effects? This is the only logical conclusion to me:
* it was a different case, as Anko had Orochimaru's chakra/consciousness sealed in her, while Sasuke Orochimaru's soul, the latter broke free because Sasuke got short on chakra so there was nothing to hold Orochimaru back
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* Orochimaru discovers the cave and trains there
* again, there's only one soul and it's obviously walking around in a body thus was not sealed anywhere... proofs:
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* He learns Senjutsu
# if it was possible for a soul to be hosted in 2 different bodies (Tobi-Madara originally thought) they wouldn't disprove the masked man being who is claiming to be automatically, thus it's not possible.
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* Itachi cuts his arm off
# Anko was branded with Cursed Seal before Part I. and Orochimaru that came out of her knows everything that have happened so far, thus it's not like that one don't remember getting pwned by Sasuke and Itachi
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* Orochimaru uses Fushi Tensei for the first time
* His soul went into Anko's Cursed Seal likely after he got burnt
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* Is left unable to use Senjutsu properly as a consequence of that, with his host body not being strong enough to handle it properly--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 17:38, March 8, 2014 (UTC)
* "Naruto, I will never meet Jiraiya sensei again as I will be molested by Orochimaru in a drunken dream world" "Naruto, I won't meet up with Minato because I'm not really your mother, just chakra" Naruto is stupid, those things were said to make him feel better and not sad
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:He said that Orochimaru found the Ryūchidō but couldn't gain Jūgo's ability due to the wrong body. I don't know where Orochimaru learned Senjutsu, though. [[User:Seelentau|Seelentau 愛]]<sup>[[User Talk:Seelentau|議]]</sup> 17:53, March 8, 2014 (UTC)
* as since it's not obvious to you, that's why it's being discussed now
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::In the anime, when Orochimaru discovers the cave, he's suddenly in pain and about to barf or anything like that. Kabuto explained that Orochimaru's body was simply too weak or not suitable in general to learn sage-stuff, if I recall correctly. [[User:Noweeaboohoo|Noweeaboohoo]] ([[User talk:Noweeaboohoo|talk]]) 17:55, March 8, 2014 (UTC)
--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 17:25, August 10, 2012 (UTC)
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:::We should disregard anime in this case and others. @Seel, didn't Kabuto say something sorts of: "even he couldn't become a true sage in the end" ? If yes, couldn't that be interpreted as him having become... an "untrue" Sage? 0_o Imperfect I mean. What do you think about my scenario, is it plausible? The only other possibility I see is that he also has Jugo's cells, but that would be speculation--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 18:12, March 8, 2014 (UTC)
   
Sorry for triple-post, but stating "seemingly" sealed fixes ALL the issues and it's a good compromise for both sides--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 17:29, August 10, 2012 (UTC)
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If Orochimaru had Jugo's cells in his own body, he would've the body needed to use Senninka and to enter Sage Mode after mastering that body. Everyone who uses Senchakra is an "untrue" sage, only those who can enter Sage Mode are real sages. [[User:Seelentau|Seelentau 愛]]<sup>[[User Talk:Seelentau|]]</sup> 19:04, March 8, 2014 (UTC)
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:Well, I guess that if Orochimaru has Jugo's cells, he isn't a Sage but if he doesn't and can absorb natural energy, he is one, but we don't know, so yeah, we don't know.--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 19:34, March 8, 2014 (UTC)
   
::I do enjoy numbered responses.
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I find it strange that you think someone can "un-become a Sage", because that is exactly what your argument is sounding like. I will agree that Orochimaru's situation is strange, but make to mistake, he's a Sage. Whether he can do it now or not, at one point, Orochimaru mastered senjutsu and became a Sage. That means, regardless of his current body, he still retains that ability. Given Orochimaru current host bodies are too weak to enter Sage Mode, but that doesn't mean Orochimaru is not a Sage. The ability also isn't completely lost to Orochimaru either, because Kabuto even said if Orochimaru found a strong enough host body, he could use his Sage Mode. This means, in a situation where you remove his Sage title, and Orochimaru got a stronger body, you would need to "reward" him back with his title. That sounds pointless. Just mark Orochimaru as a Sage, and then mention his current limitations under his abilities, it's that simple. There is no point making this more complicated that it already is. [[User:Omega64|Omega64]] ([[User talk:Omega64|talk]]) 16:34, March 9, 2014 (UTC)
:::2) Different and the same. It's odd. Orochimaru is odd.
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:That sounds valid. What do others think? I guess we would need best to know again exactly what Kabuto says word by word, because the meaning and said interpretations vary from translation to translation I see it.
:::3) Except we know Tobi was in fact lying about being Madara.
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Well, Orochimaru wouldn't be a Sage had he never managed to learn how to absorb natural energy and mold it into senjutsu chakra, which we don't know he did is the point, but as I said, I recall Kabuto's dialogue suggesting he did... and if that's true and his inability to use Sage Mode is just temporary, one simply can't "unbecome" something.--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 21:35, March 9, 2014 (UTC)
:::4) Orochimaru is aware of Tobi's war. He was sealed before that war started. He said he knew what was going on because he could see it from Anko's seal. Not sure what you are getting at about him for whatever reason not remembering his defeat but /shrug.
 
:::5) Or it was always there. See how this works yet?
 
:::6) And this comes from...?
 
:::7) It's not obvious. Like I said, you believe it's obvious because it reaches a conclusion you but together. There are many things it could have meant.--[[User:TheUltimate3|'''TheUltimate3''']] [[File:Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg|20px]][[User Talk:TheUltimate3| <sup>(talk)</sup>]] 17:36, August 10, 2012 (UTC)
 
   
Orochimaru's consciousness did not "shift" his consciousness is within every single person that has received his cursed seal. You're using speculation to string your own conclusions together. Sasuke could have gone to any one of the cursed seal recipients and revived Orochimaru.--[[User:Cerez365|Cerez<small>365</small><sup>™</sup>]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 17:43, August 10, 2012 (UTC)
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: I'm on the fence with this one. No one denies that Orochimaru can use Senjutsu. But he's been deliberately stated to not have a body capable of Sage Mode. Its not a temporary thing like you suggest, Elve. You either have a body that can do it, or you don't. He doesn't. That's just a fact. Kabuto's dialogue only insinuates that he ''tried'' to use it and failed. Where you're getting that he was successful is over my head. Could he potentially steal a body that has such a capability? Sure. That's why he was grooming Sasuke, Kimimaru, and others capable of using the curse mark, to be his new host, but until he takes one of them, he is ''still'' unable to use Sage Mode. This is (along with other reasoning, which I am not willing to debate here) why Senjutsu cannot equate to being in the use of Sage Mode. ~ '''''[[User:Ten Tailed Fox|Ten Tailed Fox]]''''' [[File:Yamagakure Symbol.svg|14px|link=User talk:Ten Tailed Fox]] 05:58, March 10, 2014 (UTC)
   
*3) What I mean is that just as Edo Madara was revived, they found out that Tobi is not Madara. If it was possible for Tobi to be Madara as well like 1 soul 2 bodies, they wouldn't disprove it right away.
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I think it has to do with the fact only people with "extremely large reserves of chakra" can use sage mode such as Jiraiya and Naruto, who both are 5th tier in stamina/chakra reserves. Orochimaru is only 3.5th tier himself, I think by body they mean the fact he just simply doesn't have enough chakra/stamina to even enter Sage Mode himself. He needs a body that has massive stamina/chakra. [[User:ItachiWasAHero|ItachiWasAHero]] ([[User talk:ItachiWasAHero|talk]]) 09:29, March 10, 2014 (UTC)
*4) Yes. What I'm getting at is that his chakra/mind was put into Anko before Part I. but it appears he remember everything thus getting pwned and absorbed by Sasuke, Itachi fight etc. thus it's not like this one is pre-part II. Oro and all the knowledge of current events he has is just thanks to Anko
 
*5) Sarutobi sealed a part of Oro's soul into Death guy and his arms rotted, thus it doesn't appear like it's exactly Voldemort style, thus putting a part of his soul into many cursed seals, just chakra and we know his is conscious.
 
*6) common sense and from what Kishi has established, the "Kushina" in Naruto was a chakra thus her soul being long in the pure world, while I don't think Itachi's Sword and afterlife share the same space
 
*7) we can argue for days, or make some compromises like "presumably, seemingly, it appears, likely" not stating something as 100% confirmed and clear while it's not--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 17:47, August 10, 2012 (UTC)
 
*8) @Cerez, only if Orochimaru's soul was available, you think there can be 10 Orochimarus walking around??? ...--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 17:47, August 10, 2012 (UTC)
 
   
::3)But Tobi was not Madara. The entire thing was to show that he was in fact lying. I'm no longer sure how this even relates anymore.
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Guys, you misunderstand the manga. Kabutos words about Orochimaru's wrong body refer to Jugo's body, not to some Fushi Tensei related stuff. You need that special body to master Senninka and enter Sage Mode at the Ryuchido, but Orochimaru didn't have that body. [[User:Seelentau|Seelentau 愛]]<sup>[[User Talk:Seelentau|議]]</sup> 09:46, March 10, 2014 (UTC)
::4)Do note that anything Naruto's shadow clones learn or kno get's transferred to his original body. It is possible for knowledge to remain within the consciousness, no matter how divided it ends up.
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:Can you word by word post the whole dialogue past the part of Kabuto stating nature to be his friend with an arm sticking outta a snake's mouth? And I don't think it's relevant what kind of body we are talking about, the topic isn't about Sage Mode, but Sage status. What defines a Sage? You say Sage Mode, but then say Pa a Ma can't use Sage Mode, yet they are Sages, therefore knowing how to absorb natural energy without cheating = Sagehood in my opinion.--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 11:18, March 10, 2014 (UTC)
::5)Which helps prove my argument so I'm not sure where you are going with this.
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::Isn't the "Sage" status something this Wiki invented? [[User:Seelentau|Seelentau 愛]]<sup>[[User Talk:Seelentau|議]]</sup> 11:23, March 10, 2014 (UTC)
::6)And this again helps prove my point. Kushina remained in Naruto because part of her conciousness was within Naruto's seal, just as Orochimaru remained in his Cursed Seals.
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:::Wasn't the title of "Sage" ever accredited to Senjutsu? What you suggest is that Shima and Fukasaku are "Sages" not unlike Sage of Six Paths I get it--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 11:28, March 10, 2014 (UTC)
::7)But what I'm getting at is there is no presumably. We know how the sword works. We don't know how that snake works.--[[User:TheUltimate3|'''TheUltimate3''']] [[File:Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg|20px]][[User Talk:TheUltimate3| <sup>(talk)</sup>]] 18:02, August 10, 2012 (UTC)
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::::Huh? No, not at all. It's just that I never knew "sage" was a title officially taken from the manga. I always thought you guys made it up long ago. [[User:Seelentau|Seelentau ]]<sup>[[User Talk:Seelentau|議]]</sup> 11:32, March 10, 2014 (UTC)
   
* proved it's not possible to be in 2 different bodies at the same time, thus there can be only 1 soul in 1 body because some thought Tobi to be half Madara's soul, indicating that since Orochimaru's soul got sucked as you say by Totsuka then there shouldn't be one walking around. That's because his soul didn't get sealed.
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And that's why we seriously need to use references... indeed, there are none for "Sage" explaining what it is and so on--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 11:49, March 10, 2014 (UTC)
* it's different as stuff transfer from shadow clones to original after being dispelled, in Orochimaru's case that would mean part of Oro watching from Anko since from years ago and some other part getting sucked by Itachi, this isn't Harry Potter where all souls of Voldemort were connected, unless Kishi confirms so.
 
* if Oro had separated and put part of his soul into others before, he would be long rotted
 
* yes, the difference being that Orochimaru's soul as well stayed around, not just consciousness
 
* we know how the sword works, but you can't say for sure Orochimaru's soul got sucked by it, while there obviously were the snakes around
 
* you guys are basically saying, that as long as Sasuke has Orochimaru's DNA and finds any cursed seal hosts, he can unseal as many Orochimarus as he want "herp derp"
 
--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 18:13, August 10, 2012 (UTC)
 
   
:1)So you're going to use what people speculated outside of universe to what we we were told inside of universe? It doesn't work that way. The entire Madara/Tobi thing about what the hell he was is on a completely different level than this. We know Orochimaru had his consciousness in his seals. We have no idea what is up with Tobi and trying to link the former with fan speculations of the later will ruin your argument.
+
:Clarification: Sage was made a "Classification" I believe after Pa said something along the lines that "Naruto was a sage" after he had mastered Sage Mode. Who exactly made the classification, we'll probably never know, but it technically is not real and I think only really used as a way to quickly point out the people that this character can use Sage Mode.--[[User:TheUltimate3|'''TheUltimate3''']] [[File:Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg|20px]][[User Talk:TheUltimate3| <sup>(talk)</sup>]] 11:59, March 10, 2014 (UTC)
:2) I'm starting to notice a very big break between our viewpoints and why this keeps going around and around. You keep pointing out souls. I keep pointing out consciousness.
+
::If he said that, that means it's a real classification and not made up. Naruto being a Sage could refer to wisdom or something of course (which he doesn't even have), but how likely it is to refer to that rather than Senjutsu mastery anyway? If anyone manages to find the chapter/episode where Pas says this, please reference it.--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 12:15, March 10, 2014 (UTC)
:3) Pardon? I think this is linked to the misconception of the whole "soul vs consciousness" thing.
 
:4) Now I'm sure there is a break in viewpoints.
 
:5) That's exactly what it means. And it makes logical sense. Orochimaru's entire goal was the not die. By making it so that in the event that he does exactly that, his cursed seals will act as soul jars to keep him moving. It of course has one noticeable flaw, it requires someone else to keep bringing him back and if for whatever reason you don't want to do so, he's kinda boned.
 
::Now getting of the numbered responses, lets take a moment to address this break. You are under the impression that his soul would be sealed in the genjutsu which would make him beyond the means of revival through the Unsealing Method because his soul wouldn't be in the Pure World correct? This assumes a lot of things, one of them being the nature of the genjutsu. According to Nagato when he got sealed, the genjutsu is the afterlife. Which would mean if Orochimaru was in fact, sealed there, he was killed. But we saw Orochimaru come back, and we know it was because his chakra, and parts of his consciousness was within the seals, and when used correctly, allowed him to return, as we've seen. You bring up the white snake as proof that he wasn't sealed. You claim it was to show that he escaped. However, as I've said, I don't see it as such. I see it as foreshadowing that Orochimaru could avoid permanent death on that field and now we know he has.--[[User:TheUltimate3|'''TheUltimate3''']] [[File:Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg|20px]][[User Talk:TheUltimate3| <sup>(talk)</sup>]] 19:14, August 10, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
* I'm not sure what you are on about, it isn't proved that a soul can be separated and put into multiple bodies in Naruto-verse, if it was possible, Tobi could be Madara but they automatically disproved as such after the sight of the Edo-ed real one.
 
* I guess so, consciousness = mind not soul.
 
* Neither Pure or Impure worlds, genjutsu dream of drunken dreams inside of a sword jar I consider a separate space from both.
 
* Again, that's not what Nagato said. It was simply to make Naruto think he goes to same place as Jiraiya
 
* Wait, wait ... I say his body got sealed but soul not as he switched to the snakes.
 
* There's flaw in your logic: You say there can be an infinite number of Orochimarus around... not it's just dumb and unlikely, but also since you say Totsuka Sword = Afterlife/Pure World, then that would mean an other Orochimaru can be brought back by Edo Tensei and there would be 2 walking around
 
--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 19:46, August 10, 2012 (UTC)
 
:1) I'm still not seeing how this is linked to our argument, especially with an enigma like Tobi.
 
:2) And what does that have to do with Orochimaru?
 
:3 and 4) And how do you know that is what Nagato was trying to do? How do you know he wasn't in fact going to where Jiraiya is.
 
:5) And this is where our break comes in. You say Orochimaru's soul escaped sealing. I say nothing escaped sealing and he was done in. You believe his soul somehow flew from the dead snake into Anko's seal. I'm saying nothing of the sort happened and Orochimaru's consciousness was always in the seal
 
:6) The supposed flaw in my argument suggests the idea his soul being split. I make no such assumptions. I say Orochimaru was sealed Itachi, which basically equated to him being killed. Because his chakra/consciousness was safely tucked away in his last cursed seal, he escaped permanent death. Also, we don't know if that exact thing CAN happen. It's completely in the realm of possibility because we simply don't know.
 
::And with that I suggest we stop this back and forth and let others come in. Because clearly there is a break that neither of us are going to get through discussing it amongst ourselves. This will be my last comment on the matter until more chime in.--[[User:TheUltimate3|'''TheUltimate3''']] [[File:Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg|20px]][[User Talk:TheUltimate3| <sup>(talk)</sup>]] 20:24, August 10, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
* without soul and a physical form, there's no mind/consciousness
 
* I don't want to offend you... but you should read twice. Are you saying that the "heavens/underworld/pure world/other life/whatever" are inside Totsuka's jar?
 
* Orochimaru's chakra was always in the seal, the snakes that got burnt were obviously him because Kishimoto wouldn't bother drawing that. The way I see it, he was killed by Amaterasu but his soul stayed in the "impure world" due to his chakra still being bound to a physical form- Anko.
 
* again, if chakra/dna/consciousness were enough to make a person, Kabuto was/would had become Orochimaru
 
Right, I'd like an opinion of others as well
 
--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 22:39, August 10, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
Right, I believe Orochimaru is the most annoying character when it comes on to life and death. Nevertheless, he was sealed by the Totsuka Sword, that is what we know. Those snakes irregardless of what they '''would have''' done cannot be taken into account because we do not know '''for certain''' what would have happened if they had escaped even if it might be plain as day to you. I keep telling you that we have to record what we '''see''', not what we '''speculate''' about. It's fine and whatnot to have in his article that the two snakes ran off and got killed nonetheless but we cannot say "Orochimaru got sealed by the Totsuka Sword but right before two snakes flew off and that was obviously him but they got killed and that's how he died" technically it would be incorrect to even mention his soul "shifting" to Anko's seal '~'. If there was an official source that said yes Oro would have been reborn from those snakes that would be fine but we cannot perpetrate that on the wiki.
 
 
As for the rest of the discussion I won't bother elaborating on that because
 
* I'm not a fan of people talking about where souls go when they die in a specific way because it's simply irrelevant.
 
* I'd also like you to remember that Orochimaru's cells ''were'' in fact taking over Kabuto but he took control of them with (assuming) willpower.
 
* The same thing is painfully obvious every time someone uses Hashirama's cells and his face starts popping out of their body. I believe the [[Hashirama's Living Clone]] is also a prime example of this, sans a consciousness. Danzo had to heavily seal the arm and constantly worry about using Wood Release when he did. If that's not apparent to you then this discussion is going nowhere.--[[User:Cerez365|Cerez<small>365</small><sup>™</sup>]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 10:21, August 11, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
* What are you guys talking about??? I'm not even discussing what those snakes would have done, I'm saying it was obviously Orochimaru that had escaped the sealing but got killed by Amaterasu, I'm not even speculating on that, like you do.
 
The point being, Orochimaru wasn't sucked in, not what would he have done if it wasn't for the snakes dying.
 
* Orochimaru wouldn't had been reborn from the snakes because he didn't die from the "sealing" the snakes were something like a [[Body Replacement Technique]] or [[Gathering of the Snakes]] the only thing that got sucked in was his body.
 
* Kabuto wouldn't have become Orochimaru if the DNA took over. Just Kabuto with mind and appearance of him.
 
* Exactly, without a soul there's no consciousness
 
* Danzo wouldn't have turned turned into Hashirama, just into a tree as his arm did.--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 14:43, August 11, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
:Not doing a full response, because I still hunger for more opinions, but do want to point out;
 
::{{quote|What are you guys talking about??? I'm not even discussing what those snakes would have done, I'm saying it was obviously Orochimaru that had escaped the sealing but got killed by Amaterasu, I'm not even speculating on that, like you do.
 
The point being, Orochimaru wasn't sucked in, not what would he have done if it wasn't for the snakes dying.}}
 
:this quote is the speculation. You assume to know what the snake is doing, that orochimaru survied, ect. Me and Cerez are saying, we don't know if any of that is true. What we all do know is that the sword seals the one that gets stabbed by it.--[[User:TheUltimate3|'''TheUltimate3''']] [[File:Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg|20px]][[User Talk:TheUltimate3| <sup>(talk)</sup>]] 15:20, August 11, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
So they were there for nothing, good to know... there are things like reading comprehension and insight. Those snakes can do nothing because they are dead, so that's not even part of the problem. I'm saying those snakes were him because there's no point in showing:
 
* random snakes escaping
 
* getting killed
 
You see it: Oro was sealed but "likely/presumably" one could have revived him with the snakes but we don't list speculations, I see it: "he was the snakes" that's the problem between us, not to mention the whole soul vs consciousness thing--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 16:03, August 11, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
:I feel like this is the Tobi issue all over again... Nobody said they were there for no reason. But you are not Masashi Kishimoto, therefore you cannot ''assume'' what purpose they would have served and have it represented here as fact. Yes the snakes detached themselves, suppose they were going off to live a happy life in a hole somewhere? or else tell his grandmother that he wouldn't be home? I'm sure you haven't seen us deny that Orochimaru would have been reborn from those snakes but we simply cannot state it as fact. Yes there are things such as "reading comprehension and insight"- I don't know why you believe you have more than the rest of us- but there is also knowing your own limitations as a reader of the manga and a wikipedia editor. Bottom line is we cannot take those snakes into account because there are a million different things they could have ended up doing.--[[User:Cerez365|Cerez<small>365</small><sup>™</sup>]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 17:51, August 11, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
Neither one can assume and state it as a fact that Orochimaru got sealed when now he is walking around, making explanations that suit your own interpretations. I'm basing that solely on that one can't exist without a soul, a part of his soul cut (arms) caused him to rot, thus stating he put part of it to every cursed seal host contradicts that, while it was stated in manga to be just chakra. He appears to remember all the events (not talking about the knowledge of the war, like using Sasuke and all), making up that it's all connected Voldemort style is just pure speculation. What I offer is the most logical and in-canon explainable option--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 19:58, August 11, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
:If that's the case than technically, me and Cerez "win". You say you based on the fact that a soul can't be in two places at once, and yet Mu has the ability to split himself into two or more parts. They succeeded in sealing Mu only for him to escape the sealing with ditching half his chakra in the seal.--[[User:TheUltimate3|'''TheUltimate3''']] [[File:Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg|20px]][[User Talk:TheUltimate3| <sup>(talk)</sup>]] 11:38, August 12, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
We don't know how Mu's technique works. It appears that the debate is pointless, there was no reason to revert my edit in the first place.--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 21:12, August 12, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
I don't understand what is happening... Firstly I think you need to understand that Orochimaru's "consciousness" and his "soul" are not the same things. Orochimaru specifically said he poured Senjutsu chakra into Anko's seal which his consciousness also inhabited. I don't understand why him undergoing necrosis, or Harry Potter has to do with this. What Sasuke did was give that consciousness that Oro left in Anko a form, work with what we get in the manga, not your own interpretations that "one cannot exist without a soul". Sometimes people over-analyse everything in the series too much which makes me wonder how they get any enjoyment out of it.--[[User:Cerez365|Cerez<small>365</small><sup>™</sup>]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 09:59, August 13, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
:Indeed, this argument is getting circular, so let's get down to business. I'm for removing the "seemingly" at the point where he got sealed, because all evidence points to him being sealed.--[[User:TheUltimate3|'''TheUltimate3''']] [[File:Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg|20px]][[User Talk:TheUltimate3| <sup>(talk)</sup>]] 10:06, August 13, 2012 (UTC)
 
::I agree. I just wanted the intro to be more up-to-date with whats happened with him.--[[User:Cerez365|Cerez<small>365</small><sup>™</sup>]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 10:10, August 13, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
LOL, whatever... list false and unconfirmed information, I don't care.--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 15:39, August 13, 2012 (UTC)
 
:Unless you help Masashi write the manga and can tell us explicitly what those snakes would have gone on and done, I think we have our bases covered.--[[User:Cerez365|Cerez<small>365</small><sup>™</sup>]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 15:47, August 13, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
Talk about bias and ignorance... first, there was not a single reason to revert my edit on the Kusanagi page, nor there is to remove "seemingly"
 
The page is about the sword, no reason to mention Orochimaru being sucked there.
 
The latter is less speculative with seemingly, because he from my view, obviously wasn't sealed, but you think your shit smells better than mine.--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 15:55, August 13, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
My dear friend Cerez, can you please explain how come this conversation did conclude?
 
Explain to me why do we have to rip each other each time, what's bad about seemingly?--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 16:49, August 13, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
== Orochimaru's Defection ==
 
Does anyone tell me Orochimaru defected from the village before or after Minato's dead ? thanks
 
[[Special:Contributions/65.49.14.79|65.49.14.79]] ([[User talk:65.49.14.79|talk]]) 17:40, August 10, 2012 (UTC)GOd
 
 
:Most likely before. We dont have an exact timeframe of how long Minato was Hokage, but we do know Orochimaru got sloppy and caught after Hiruzen made Minato Hokage instead of him.--[[User:TheUltimate3|'''TheUltimate3''']] [[File:Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol.svg|20px]][[User Talk:TheUltimate3| <sup>(talk)</sup>]] 17:53, August 10, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
Calculate it, Oro was still a Konoha Ninja when he first met Kabuto, the latter was like 7-8 years old and now is 23. Thus shortly after Minato's death Oro was still in Konoha.
 
Tobi attacked Konoha a year after the 3rd Shinobi World War had ended, thus was a Hokage for circa a year or less.--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 18:03, August 10, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
It may have been closer to two years, since Kakashi was 12 during Kakashi Gaiden and 14 during the Nine-Tails attack.--[[User:BeyondRed|BeyondRed]] ([[User talk:BeyondRed|talk]]) 21:18, August 10, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
He was 13--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 22:22, August 10, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
He was 13 during the Kakashi Gaiden and 14 and 25 days during the Kyuubi attack, all can be calculated from their birthdates and ages, Oro left either right before the Kyuubi Attack or after the Kyuubi Attack. [[Special:Contributions/173.66.119.89|173.66.119.89]] ([[User talk:173.66.119.89|talk]]) 02:06, September 6, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
late reply, and read above. Oro met 9-10 years old Kabuto, thus at least 3 years after Kurama attack, Oro was still a Konoha shinobi--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 02:10, September 6, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
== Orochimaru Fire Element ==
 
 
Hey everyone. So I was watching Naruto Episode 29. In this episode Orochimaru is fighting Naruto and he uses what appears to be a Fire Element: Grand Fireball Technique. I'm not really sure who edits this bio page, but I wanted to help out. Please watch the video ('''- -no links ಠ_ಠ- -''') and go to 14:15.{{unsigned|108.222.79.86}}
 
:What you saw was him igniting his [[Wind Release: Great Breakthrough]] technique.--[[User:Cerez365|Cerez<small>365</small><sup>™</sup>]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 20:43, September 24, 2012 (UTC)
 
Oh I see now. Thanks for the info! {{unsigned|108.222.79.86}}
 
 
== Reaper Death Seal ==
 
 
Suigetsu seems to be under the impression the only reason Sasuke beat Orochimaru was because he was still handicapped by the Reaper Death Seal, but I thought that swapping bodies at the end of Part 1 cured him. Clarification? [[Special:Contributions/207.216.193.120|207.216.193.120]] ([[User talk:207.216.193.120|talk]]) 03:21, September 25, 2012 (UTC)
 
:People are entitled to their beliefs. Orochimaru did switch bodies but it was severely weakened or possibly defective but by the time Sasuke decided to kill his master, Kabuto was preparing to give him level 10 medicine, it may be possible that this was due to the effects of the Shinigami taking his hands.--[[User:Cerez365|Cerez<small>365</small><sup>™</sup>]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 10:38, September 25, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
== Orochimaru's stance in the War ==
 
 
This is likely the most speculative and forum-ish thing I have ever posted outside of the very few posts on forums I've made; but is it possible that Orochimaru can make an impact for the Allied Shinobi Forces in the War? I mean what would be the point in Sasuke bringing him back if he doesn't help to make an impact with the current conflicts? [[Special:Contributions/165.138.142.66|165.138.142.66]] ([[User talk:165.138.142.66|talk]]) 18:10, October 23, 2012 (UTC)
 
:Orochimaru has stated that he has 0 interest in the war. Whatever he does will possibly be minimal in the way of helping Sasuke with whatever it is that he's looking for.--[[User:Cerez365|Cerez<small>365</small><sup>™</sup>]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 18:24, October 23, 2012 (UTC)
 
Thanks again Cerez :) [[Special:Contributions/165.138.142.66|165.138.142.66]] ([[User talk:165.138.142.66|talk]]) 18:35, October 23, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
Tell me a reason not to delete this, for first:
 
# You know as much as the rest of us do
 
# Not a forum
 
# Cerez isn't Kishimoto, so I don't see how is he authorized to answer
 
# His strongest Edo Tensei is currently trying to make the whole world a dreamland, that hinders with Orochimaru's ambitions of world ruled by him along with omniscience and omnipotence, there can't be 2 kings sitting on the same throne... Madara was likely his trump card one way or another... now that the whole joint army is battling Kabuto/Madara/Obito, Konoha is defenseless, giving him an opportunity. Just because he says otherwise doesn't mean he isn't lying.
 
Also remember that Madara is free now, enemy of my enemy is my friend. He might very possibly even help.
 
 
One way or another, none of us knows so further discussion is pointless, Kishi likes to twist things --[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 22:05, October 23, 2012 (UTC)
 
:I know that -_- Go ahead and delete it. I'm not stupid nor am I ashamed of the simple question I asked. [[Special:Contributions/165.138.142.66|165.138.142.66]] ([[User talk:165.138.142.66|talk]]) 12:51, October 24, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
== Team Orochimaru ==
 
 
Page for it... yay or nay?--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 20:52, November 6, 2012 (UTC)
 
:Suppose Anko is in the same boat as Shizune or Sakura with Tsunade and Jiraiya and Naruto?--[[User:Cerez365|Cerez<small>365</small><sup>™</sup>]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 20:56, November 6, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
No, those 3 were a genin team as they took an exam together, and Anko is known to have had only Orochimaru as a sensei. Even if Sakura/Shizune and Naruto were "students" of those respective people, they didn't make any team together--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 21:16, November 6, 2012 (UTC)
 
:She is known to have one but suppose he wasn't their jōnin sensei? Supposed Orochimaru took a liking to Anko and decided to deciple her? That unknown is why we can't assume there was ever a "Team Orochimaru" as much as there being a "Team Tsunade".--[[User:Cerez365|Cerez<small>365</small><sup>™</sup>]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 21:55, November 6, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
I know exactly what you mean, but their relationship is strong and there was never a mention of some other person... what's more speculative, team Orochimaru or another sensei theory?--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 22:46, November 6, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
For what it's worth, the first fanbook has a page showing the various genin teams and includes two question mark spaces next to Anko beneath Orochimaru, implying that he did have a full genin team.--[[User:BeyondRed|BeyondRed]] ([[User talk:BeyondRed|talk]]) 02:59, November 7, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
Even then, we know [[Kabuto's Trainer]] was on her genin team as well. So what are the odds of this guy, being on the same team as Orochimaru's old student, then ending up as the sensei to three of Orochimaru's spies? I know they say two times is a coincidence, but not in writing it isn't. Seems pretty much unfeasible that this guy crosses paths with Orochimaru's disciples twice as teammates and yet was never mentored by the guy. --[[User:Hawkeye2701|Hawkeye2701]] ([[User talk:Hawkeye2701|talk]]) 05:32, November 7, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
Exactly, we must also take into consideration that he made no appearance in manga after exams, anime doesn't count. For what he know, he is Orochimaru's spy as well and had left the village. Chances of the three not being ex-team Orochimaru are slim--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 13:49, November 7, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
== personality edit ==
 
 
I agree with the arrogance part, but it's not entirely correct. He agreed himself as inferior to Itachi, even wanting Sasuke's body first so he could have stood a chance. Sasuke one the other hand, was nothing more than a vessel for him that he had underestimated, attempting to take over despite being the weaker one at the time.
 
Another example would be Madara's Edo Tensei, trying to control powers he himself can't fathom (Sharingan and Hashi's DNA lol)
 
That's all ._. maybe we should also mention that the word failure says nothing to Orochimaru... playing with fire despite being burnt... one doesn't simply die once--[[User:Elveonora|Elveonora]] ([[User talk:Elveonora|talk]]) 00:05, November 20, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
== References ==
 
 
I would like to know where it is stated that Orochimaru knows "well Zetsu's nature and Tobi's machination to revive the Ten-Tails".--[[Special:Contributions/201.240.123.139|201.240.123.139]] ([[User talk:201.240.123.139|talk]]) 06:36, November 26, 2012 (UTC)
 
:Added.--[[User:Cerez365|Cerez<small>365</small><sup>™</sup>]][[File:Hyūga Symbol.svg|20px]][[User talk:Cerez365|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 11:48, November 26, 2012 (UTC)
 
 
== number of missions ==
 
 
yeah i know this was talked about already but his number of missions was stated as (while in the leaf village) in one of the data books. should we put it here if its in a databook[[Special:Contributions/209.56.53.1|209.56.53.1]] ([[User talk:209.56.53.1|talk]]) 18:50, December 7, 2012 (UTC) naruhina4ever
 

Latest revision as of 15:21, March 10, 2014

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new cursed seal technique Edit

An article for it perhaps? Pretty similar to Danzo's--Elveonora (talk) 14:45, February 5, 2014 (UTC)

It can easily be mentioned here. Not sure if an entirely new article is necessary.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol (talk) 15:00, February 5, 2014 (UTC)
Well, that refers purely to mutant-reject seals no jutsu, this is immobilize seal no jutsu.--Elveonora (talk) 15:11, February 5, 2014 (UTC)
/shrug. Same thing. He extends neck and puts on seal. What the seal does eh probably depends on what he wants.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol (talk) 15:16, February 5, 2014 (UTC)

New introductions Edit

I noticed that a large majority of character's intros have been changed completely on the wiki. Personally I feel that the previous introductions were much better compared to these new ones. They were more informative, more specific and more like a personal biography introduction. This new introductions are simply awful... And need to be carefully revised and re-written.

Pecnut (talk) 20:33, February 15, 2014 (UTC)

Noticed the same thing--Elveonora (talk) 14:44, February 16, 2014 (UTC)


Honestly, who on earth changed them? They're so terrible. Pecnut (talk) 15:38, February 16, 2014 (UTC)

Are you saying that Orochimaru's introduction is bad? If you are, then don't make generalisations about all of the intro's. The wikia is an on-going project, so that means of course we arent going to get everything perfect, and there will be some disagreements about the way we deal with certain aspects of it. Instead of complaining and calling ANY part of the wikia bad or "terrible" then actually do what you're supposed to do as an editor and edit it.--NaviiGator (A.K.A.KotoSenju)Talk Page-My Contributions 19:30, February 16, 2014 (UTC)

If this is not an issue with Orochimaru's specifically then you need to start a forum about it.--Cerez365Hyūga Symbol(talk) 19:37, February 16, 2014 (UTC)


I'm talking about all the introductions that have been changed. The previous ones were much better, I'm not saying everything has to be perfect but your aim is to make everything better and as informative as possible. I just feel (and I'm sure many others do too) that the previous introductions were much better. If you ask me, I think you should change them back. These new introductions are just plain bad. If it was down to me, I'd keep the old intros but of course I'd be penalised for doing so. Pecnut (talk) 20:33, February 16, 2014 (UTC)

The changes were pirmarily done by Snapper2, in an effort to make the introductions, well more like introductions and less like "TL;DR summaries of the entire article". I don't disagree that that to that end, the introductions need work, otherwise why not just actually have a "Summary" section at the top of the pages and leave the intros as "This is X".--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol (talk) 20:41, February 16, 2014 (UTC)

I want to analyze the old intro:

served as the central antagonist for the majority of the series during Part I but later became a secondary antagonist during Part II
Out-of-universe, which the MOS and usual practice avoids. Also leads to meaningless discussions about who the "main" antagonist is.
Recognised as one of the most powerful ninja Konohagakure ever produced and one of the "Three Legendary Shinobi" (伝説の三忍, Densetsu no Sannin)
Kept in the new.
he operated as an ANBU shinobi within the Root faction
Relatively new information that has little application to his overall role in the series. Is also some desperate attempt to list his rank, which is more than accomplished by "Sannin".
prior to his defection from the village in pursuit of his own self-serving ambitions
Kept in the new.
Initially sealed away during the battle between Sasuke and Itachi Uchiha by the latter
This was added when it was thought he was dead...
he was later reconstituted by the former using his own genetic material that was within his successor Kabuto Yakushi and a copy of consciousness he stored within Anko Mitarashi's Cursed Seal of Heaven.
... and this was added when it was revealed it he wasn't dead. So you've got a whole sentence with about seven irrelevant links that take you in a nice circle of Orochimaru being dead but wait no he isn't. And what does this add?

Is the new intro great? I guess not. But it would be better to improve it rather than cling to the problems of the old one. ~SnapperTo 20:36, February 27, 2014 (UTC)

Dual Weild Edit

I remember somewhere it showed a quick flashback pic of orochimaru with two swords strapped to his back in the manga, I don't remember when though. If someone remembers then could it be added to his abilities section? Munchvtec (talk) 16:48, February 19, 2014 (UTC)

Chapter 50. -- The Talk Goblin 16:57, February 19, 2014 (UTC)

Alright so could it be added? Munchvtec (talk) 17:00, February 19, 2014 (UTC)

I just added it a few minutes ago, could someone put a ref I don't exactly know how? thanks Munchvtec (talk) 17:14, February 19, 2014 (UTC)

I'm not sure if a silhouette from 600+ chapters back is any indication of dual-wielding. We are yet to see him use two blades at once--Elveonora (talk) 17:53, February 19, 2014 (UTC)

his "Sagehood" and related stuff Edit

Okay, I think it should be looked at again. Seelentau, can you please assist us with this, what exactly word by word did Kabuto say? And if Orochimaru isn't a Sage, how come does/did he have Senjutsu chakra and can absorb Senjutsu chakra without side effects? This is the only logical conclusion to me:

  • Orochimaru discovers the cave and trains there
  • He learns Senjutsu
  • Itachi cuts his arm off
  • Orochimaru uses Fushi Tensei for the first time
  • Is left unable to use Senjutsu properly as a consequence of that, with his host body not being strong enough to handle it properly--Elveonora (talk) 17:38, March 8, 2014 (UTC)
He said that Orochimaru found the Ryūchidō but couldn't gain Jūgo's ability due to the wrong body. I don't know where Orochimaru learned Senjutsu, though. Seelentau 愛 17:53, March 8, 2014 (UTC)
In the anime, when Orochimaru discovers the cave, he's suddenly in pain and about to barf or anything like that. Kabuto explained that Orochimaru's body was simply too weak or not suitable in general to learn sage-stuff, if I recall correctly. Noweeaboohoo (talk) 17:55, March 8, 2014 (UTC)
We should disregard anime in this case and others. @Seel, didn't Kabuto say something sorts of: "even he couldn't become a true sage in the end" ? If yes, couldn't that be interpreted as him having become... an "untrue" Sage? 0_o Imperfect I mean. What do you think about my scenario, is it plausible? The only other possibility I see is that he also has Jugo's cells, but that would be speculation--Elveonora (talk) 18:12, March 8, 2014 (UTC)

If Orochimaru had Jugo's cells in his own body, he would've the body needed to use Senninka and to enter Sage Mode after mastering that body. Everyone who uses Senchakra is an "untrue" sage, only those who can enter Sage Mode are real sages. Seelentau 愛 19:04, March 8, 2014 (UTC)

Well, I guess that if Orochimaru has Jugo's cells, he isn't a Sage but if he doesn't and can absorb natural energy, he is one, but we don't know, so yeah, we don't know.--Elveonora (talk) 19:34, March 8, 2014 (UTC)

I find it strange that you think someone can "un-become a Sage", because that is exactly what your argument is sounding like. I will agree that Orochimaru's situation is strange, but make to mistake, he's a Sage. Whether he can do it now or not, at one point, Orochimaru mastered senjutsu and became a Sage. That means, regardless of his current body, he still retains that ability. Given Orochimaru current host bodies are too weak to enter Sage Mode, but that doesn't mean Orochimaru is not a Sage. The ability also isn't completely lost to Orochimaru either, because Kabuto even said if Orochimaru found a strong enough host body, he could use his Sage Mode. This means, in a situation where you remove his Sage title, and Orochimaru got a stronger body, you would need to "reward" him back with his title. That sounds pointless. Just mark Orochimaru as a Sage, and then mention his current limitations under his abilities, it's that simple. There is no point making this more complicated that it already is. Omega64 (talk) 16:34, March 9, 2014 (UTC)

That sounds valid. What do others think? I guess we would need best to know again exactly what Kabuto says word by word, because the meaning and said interpretations vary from translation to translation I see it.

Well, Orochimaru wouldn't be a Sage had he never managed to learn how to absorb natural energy and mold it into senjutsu chakra, which we don't know he did is the point, but as I said, I recall Kabuto's dialogue suggesting he did... and if that's true and his inability to use Sage Mode is just temporary, one simply can't "unbecome" something.--Elveonora (talk) 21:35, March 9, 2014 (UTC)

I'm on the fence with this one. No one denies that Orochimaru can use Senjutsu. But he's been deliberately stated to not have a body capable of Sage Mode. Its not a temporary thing like you suggest, Elve. You either have a body that can do it, or you don't. He doesn't. That's just a fact. Kabuto's dialogue only insinuates that he tried to use it and failed. Where you're getting that he was successful is over my head. Could he potentially steal a body that has such a capability? Sure. That's why he was grooming Sasuke, Kimimaru, and others capable of using the curse mark, to be his new host, but until he takes one of them, he is still unable to use Sage Mode. This is (along with other reasoning, which I am not willing to debate here) why Senjutsu cannot equate to being in the use of Sage Mode. ~ Ten Tailed Fox Yamagakure Symbol 05:58, March 10, 2014 (UTC)

I think it has to do with the fact only people with "extremely large reserves of chakra" can use sage mode such as Jiraiya and Naruto, who both are 5th tier in stamina/chakra reserves. Orochimaru is only 3.5th tier himself, I think by body they mean the fact he just simply doesn't have enough chakra/stamina to even enter Sage Mode himself. He needs a body that has massive stamina/chakra. ItachiWasAHero (talk) 09:29, March 10, 2014 (UTC)

Guys, you misunderstand the manga. Kabutos words about Orochimaru's wrong body refer to Jugo's body, not to some Fushi Tensei related stuff. You need that special body to master Senninka and enter Sage Mode at the Ryuchido, but Orochimaru didn't have that body. Seelentau 愛 09:46, March 10, 2014 (UTC)

Can you word by word post the whole dialogue past the part of Kabuto stating nature to be his friend with an arm sticking outta a snake's mouth? And I don't think it's relevant what kind of body we are talking about, the topic isn't about Sage Mode, but Sage status. What defines a Sage? You say Sage Mode, but then say Pa a Ma can't use Sage Mode, yet they are Sages, therefore knowing how to absorb natural energy without cheating = Sagehood in my opinion.--Elveonora (talk) 11:18, March 10, 2014 (UTC)
Isn't the "Sage" status something this Wiki invented? Seelentau 愛 11:23, March 10, 2014 (UTC)
Wasn't the title of "Sage" ever accredited to Senjutsu? What you suggest is that Shima and Fukasaku are "Sages" not unlike Sage of Six Paths I get it--Elveonora (talk) 11:28, March 10, 2014 (UTC)
Huh? No, not at all. It's just that I never knew "sage" was a title officially taken from the manga. I always thought you guys made it up long ago. Seelentau 愛 11:32, March 10, 2014 (UTC)

And that's why we seriously need to use references... indeed, there are none for "Sage" explaining what it is and so on--Elveonora (talk) 11:49, March 10, 2014 (UTC)

Clarification: Sage was made a "Classification" I believe after Pa said something along the lines that "Naruto was a sage" after he had mastered Sage Mode. Who exactly made the classification, we'll probably never know, but it technically is not real and I think only really used as a way to quickly point out the people that this character can use Sage Mode.--TheUltimate3 Allied Shinobi Forces Symbol (talk) 11:59, March 10, 2014 (UTC)
If he said that, that means it's a real classification and not made up. Naruto being a Sage could refer to wisdom or something of course (which he doesn't even have), but how likely it is to refer to that rather than Senjutsu mastery anyway? If anyone manages to find the chapter/episode where Pas says this, please reference it.--Elveonora (talk) 12:15, March 10, 2014 (UTC)

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